Steber's decisions in this recording are beautiful and atmospheric.
This is my favorite recording of her Knoxville for all its nuance (and all technical imperfections there may be from it being live). Thanks for sharing this document!
I am astonished at the posts. In the "streetcar" section, there are slight rhythmic errors. It sounds as though Steber and the piano are not quite together. I believe that there are very good things about this performance. However, to compare Steber and Upshaw is truthfully to compare a spinto sound to a leggiero sound: apples and pineapples.No need to go all better and worse on them.
@7inga7 There is some fogginess here. If you check out her autobiography Steber talks about this; it was likely already written in-part and repurposed and adapted for Steber.
People have claimed to have heard it performed publicly before Steber made her recording.
I would give anything to witness some of you perform. What a distasteful bunch of losers. Come to think of it I don't miss music school very much at all. Picking apart Knoxville. Go practice you fools.
The comments here from tightlygagged are spot on. Steber sang with a little more heft on original recording with orchestra (Columbia), than this (on her label - StAnd). This recording is much more intimate, and there is nothing operatic about the sound, it is just straightforward singing. She didn't modify the crap out of every vowel. I don't dislike Dawn Upshaw, but she sang as though she had a big hot marshmallow in her mouth.
I would have been more impressed if any of the ocmments here included the fact that Steber commissioned the piece from the nephew of one of America's most beloved Contralti.
There was a lot more to comment about this performance than extraneous subjectivity, the facts are impressive...and Steber and Barbers Aunt, Louise Homer, need no comparison.
(continued from below) These were all men who were very handsome and very capable at what they did without becoming one trick ponies. They had absolutely incredible vocal technique, musicianship, and dramatic presence. Opera is a complete art form that needs to have complete performers. As far as whom you think is better at all of these, stick with your preferences, and let people have their opinions.
I would like to throw my hat into the ring on this one...Barber certainly wrote this for Eleanor Steber for a reason. There is no doubt whatsoever about that. I feel that opera these days has become a beauty contest and it has become far less about the music and the vocal technique required. This has become especially evident with the tenors on the scene. The days of Corelli, Bjoerling, Caruso, and Tucker are over. (continued above)
This sort of imbecility--'each voice brings something new'--is exactly what happened to art and to training. No, Jen, each voice now brings something OLD for the past forty years or so: utter inadequacy of technique, utter inability to produce a TONE, and utter ignorance on all subjects which casteth out any possibility of learning. If you do not even know that the creator of a role or work usually has a great deal to say which is not expressed by the word 'flair'....Res ipsa loquitur.
JenstarMN, dear, singing is dead, and nothing is deader than singing technique. I'm sorry, but Upshaw has no colors, and her diction is simply antiseptic, not in any way 'expressive'. You have no background, no knowledge of esthetics, and your abysmal ignorance is manifest in your every word. There is nothing 'operatic' about Steber's singing; it is proper singing, unlike the miserable and miniscule Upshaw, who can barely be heard in a hall which seats 150--and still can't sing high pianissimi!
@tightlygagged I agree with you. I find it amazing that Dawn Upshaw has fans. I've heard better from students who were in music school. There have been times I've felt sorry or embarrassed for her and wondered why she wasn't doing Broadway musicals instead of pretending that she was an operatic diva.
Each voice brings something new to music that has been performed for decades or centuries. I enjoy the colorings and expressive diction Upshaw employs, even if she does a bit too much scooping, and Steber has a ton of rhythmic errors and a bit too much of an operatic take for my taste, but I still appreciate the flair she adds to it. Barber created a masterpiece in "Knoxville," and I think your slander is completely missing the point of this American treasure.
Tightlygagged, you sure seem to have strong opinions... I am performing this piece on my graduate recital, and have also done an extensive amount of research on it and listened to numerous recordings. I think both Ms. Steber and Dawn Upshaw do this piece justice. They just have very different voices and interpretations.
Please allow me a little clarification. The quality and strength of Ms. Steber's voice in undeniable. This performance is wonderful, and as I write this I am on my third listen. I am unaware of Dawn Upshaw, but I had a colleague who performed this with very little vibrato and I will say that it gave the piece a wonderfully understated "American" quality. I've often wished for a forum where I could discuss this piece with others. How I miss music school!!
I'm a classical guitarist and this is one of the most beautiful pieces I've ever heard. The performance is slightly too operatic, but as quoted earlier it is of the period. Great post.
Dawn Upshaw has no vocal quality, no technique, and no top, which for a soprano with a voice as miniscule as hers is fatal. I am astonished that manidonno10 chooses to air his/her imbecility in public. Steber COMMISSIONED this piece; hers is the ONLY acceptable recording or version. Upshaw has embarrassed herself in every operatic role she has ever sung publicly, and the fact that she cannot even sing the crucial last phrase pianissimo (unlike Steber whose voice is ten times larger) says it all.
Obviously I can't sway your opinion on Upshaw, nor do I care to (I'm pretty indifferent, to be perfectly honest). But really, to say that Steber's is the only acceptable recording, because she commissioned it? I suppose now we can't listen to any recordings of classical music that was composed before recording technology was developed.
Go ahead, keep up that logic; let's help classical music die out. God forbid anyone like me should try and make a career performing things from the PAST.
Buckwheat, I'm a REAL performer, and you expose your idiocy with every line. I can only imagine the pathetic image you must present onstage if you are ignorant enough that you can't even read a reasonably simple post and understand its syntax. I did not say Steber's is the only acceptable version BECAUSE she commissioned it; there is a SEMICOLON there. Learn to read English...
BTW....if you're planning on trying to 'make a career performing things from the PAST' perhaps you might learn a fact or two about esthetics, taste, performance practice, technique, art, and logic. You'll be starting from scratch in all those areas, so any knowledge for you will be a plus.
I would hardly call a BM in vocal performance from the Peabody Conservatory with a cumulative GPA of 3.78 "starting from scratch."
First off, last I checked, a semicolon is used when two complete sentences need to be joined into one to indicate that the two are part of the same thought, and are often used to clarify. You even used one in your other comment to clarify that you used a semicolon. Clearly, you know how to use them, so don't try to claim that you meant something else by it.
If you are indeed a real performer, I wish you luck with that attitude of yours. Competition is too fierce out there to be calling people idiots. I certainly wouldn't want you as my colleague.
Also, if you think knowledge would be a plus for me, perhaps you should have some as well. You mentioned that Steber's voice is ten times larger... as I am writing an essay on this piece, I have a quote from one of Barber's letters to his uncle right in front of me as part of my research:
"Do you like her? Her voice seems very small to me, but she is intelligent. There seem to be no young singers (or old!) with enough voice to stand up against a symphony orchestra and I don't want Traubel."
Steber actually commissioned this piece from Barber. There are three recordings of this piece with Steber-two orchestral, one with piano. This is from her famous Carneige Hall recital and the pianist is Steber's longtime accompanist, Edwin Bittcliffe.
The upside to this interpretation is that we can fully appreciate the power and inherent beauty of Ms. Steber's voice.
However, the reason I prefer the Dawn Upshaw interpretation so much is because she let's the text inform her musical decisions as opposed to letting her voice choose for her.
Wow, I couldn't disagree with you more. This was a signature piece for Ms. Steber. She was the first to record it (the orchastra version is amazing, but hard to find). I think it was a style at the time. Dawn becomes more "musical theater" with her music. And vocally, Dawn does not even come close to Steber.
I'll assume from your comment that you are not well-versed in Ms. Upshaw's discography, and (for your sake) I recommend you remedy this error. Even if you don't appreciate her vocal quality, one cannot help but recognize her innate musicianship and tireless support of contemporary composition.
I adore Steber's work (actually, my vocal coach studied with her at Juilliard) and I hope that my comment did not sound disparaging.
I adore Dawn. I have seen her in concert and I own some of her CDs. Also, have had some personal contact. But even she (and her teacher from MSM) will tell you the limitations of her natural born gift. I think she an incredible musician. I never suggested anything to the contrary. I just don't like her rendition of this. I don't really like Leontyne's either, but I have always had an extreme love hate relationship with her. It's just a matter of taste. (my old teacher was a Steberite as well!)
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Steber's decisions in this recording are beautiful and atmospheric.
This is my favorite recording of her Knoxville for all its nuance (and all technical imperfections there may be from it being live). Thanks for sharing this document!
coryisawake 2 months ago
Comment removed
coryisawake 2 months ago
I am astonished at the posts. In the "streetcar" section, there are slight rhythmic errors. It sounds as though Steber and the piano are not quite together. I believe that there are very good things about this performance. However, to compare Steber and Upshaw is truthfully to compare a spinto sound to a leggiero sound: apples and pineapples.No need to go all better and worse on them.
moiragreyland 11 months ago
Brilliant. A vastly underappreciated singer.
jojojo943 1 year ago
no one's ever done it better.
injamaven 1 year ago
As far as I'm concerned, not Upshaw nor anyone else can 'hold a candle' to this performance. I know she commisssioned it.
7inga7 1 year ago
@7inga7 There is some fogginess here. If you check out her autobiography Steber talks about this; it was likely already written in-part and repurposed and adapted for Steber.
People have claimed to have heard it performed publicly before Steber made her recording.
coryisawake 2 months ago
I would give anything to witness some of you perform. What a distasteful bunch of losers. Come to think of it I don't miss music school very much at all. Picking apart Knoxville. Go practice you fools.
theos111 1 year ago
The comments here from tightlygagged are spot on. Steber sang with a little more heft on original recording with orchestra (Columbia), than this (on her label - StAnd). This recording is much more intimate, and there is nothing operatic about the sound, it is just straightforward singing. She didn't modify the crap out of every vowel. I don't dislike Dawn Upshaw, but she sang as though she had a big hot marshmallow in her mouth.
Greg07623 1 year ago
Tightlygagged? If only you meant your mouth.
theos111 1 year ago 2
I would have been more impressed if any of the ocmments here included the fact that Steber commissioned the piece from the nephew of one of America's most beloved Contralti.
There was a lot more to comment about this performance than extraneous subjectivity, the facts are impressive...and Steber and Barbers Aunt, Louise Homer, need no comparison.
All of their art is timeless.
Carissimo12 1 year ago
(continued from below) These were all men who were very handsome and very capable at what they did without becoming one trick ponies. They had absolutely incredible vocal technique, musicianship, and dramatic presence. Opera is a complete art form that needs to have complete performers. As far as whom you think is better at all of these, stick with your preferences, and let people have their opinions.
LetItBe920 1 year ago
I would like to throw my hat into the ring on this one...Barber certainly wrote this for Eleanor Steber for a reason. There is no doubt whatsoever about that. I feel that opera these days has become a beauty contest and it has become far less about the music and the vocal technique required. This has become especially evident with the tenors on the scene. The days of Corelli, Bjoerling, Caruso, and Tucker are over. (continued above)
LetItBe920 1 year ago
Why are all of you guys hatin on each other? It's music! Just enjoy it!
Bellanca33 1 year ago
This sort of imbecility--'each voice brings something new'--is exactly what happened to art and to training. No, Jen, each voice now brings something OLD for the past forty years or so: utter inadequacy of technique, utter inability to produce a TONE, and utter ignorance on all subjects which casteth out any possibility of learning. If you do not even know that the creator of a role or work usually has a great deal to say which is not expressed by the word 'flair'....Res ipsa loquitur.
tightlygagged 1 year ago
@tightlygagged well you're a bit severe, but you are right!
mrantiquedealer 1 year ago
JenstarMN, dear, singing is dead, and nothing is deader than singing technique. I'm sorry, but Upshaw has no colors, and her diction is simply antiseptic, not in any way 'expressive'. You have no background, no knowledge of esthetics, and your abysmal ignorance is manifest in your every word. There is nothing 'operatic' about Steber's singing; it is proper singing, unlike the miserable and miniscule Upshaw, who can barely be heard in a hall which seats 150--and still can't sing high pianissimi!
tightlygagged 1 year ago
@tightlygagged I agree with you. I find it amazing that Dawn Upshaw has fans. I've heard better from students who were in music school. There have been times I've felt sorry or embarrassed for her and wondered why she wasn't doing Broadway musicals instead of pretending that she was an operatic diva.
eyesk8er 11 months ago
Each voice brings something new to music that has been performed for decades or centuries. I enjoy the colorings and expressive diction Upshaw employs, even if she does a bit too much scooping, and Steber has a ton of rhythmic errors and a bit too much of an operatic take for my taste, but I still appreciate the flair she adds to it. Barber created a masterpiece in "Knoxville," and I think your slander is completely missing the point of this American treasure.
JenstarMN 2 years ago
Tightlygagged, you sure seem to have strong opinions... I am performing this piece on my graduate recital, and have also done an extensive amount of research on it and listened to numerous recordings. I think both Ms. Steber and Dawn Upshaw do this piece justice. They just have very different voices and interpretations.
JenstarMN 2 years ago
Please allow me a little clarification. The quality and strength of Ms. Steber's voice in undeniable. This performance is wonderful, and as I write this I am on my third listen. I am unaware of Dawn Upshaw, but I had a colleague who performed this with very little vibrato and I will say that it gave the piece a wonderfully understated "American" quality. I've often wished for a forum where I could discuss this piece with others. How I miss music school!!
theos111 2 years ago
I'm a classical guitarist and this is one of the most beautiful pieces I've ever heard. The performance is slightly too operatic, but as quoted earlier it is of the period. Great post.
theos111 2 years ago
One of the best pieces of Americana ever written beautifully sung by a wonderful soprano. Thank you so much for posting...
truverdigirl 2 years ago
Dawn Upshaw has no vocal quality, no technique, and no top, which for a soprano with a voice as miniscule as hers is fatal. I am astonished that manidonno10 chooses to air his/her imbecility in public. Steber COMMISSIONED this piece; hers is the ONLY acceptable recording or version. Upshaw has embarrassed herself in every operatic role she has ever sung publicly, and the fact that she cannot even sing the crucial last phrase pianissimo (unlike Steber whose voice is ten times larger) says it all.
tightlygagged 2 years ago
Obviously I can't sway your opinion on Upshaw, nor do I care to (I'm pretty indifferent, to be perfectly honest). But really, to say that Steber's is the only acceptable recording, because she commissioned it? I suppose now we can't listen to any recordings of classical music that was composed before recording technology was developed.
Go ahead, keep up that logic; let's help classical music die out. God forbid anyone like me should try and make a career performing things from the PAST.
currymuttonpizza 2 years ago
Buckwheat, I'm a REAL performer, and you expose your idiocy with every line. I can only imagine the pathetic image you must present onstage if you are ignorant enough that you can't even read a reasonably simple post and understand its syntax. I did not say Steber's is the only acceptable version BECAUSE she commissioned it; there is a SEMICOLON there. Learn to read English...
tightlygagged 2 years ago
BTW....if you're planning on trying to 'make a career performing things from the PAST' perhaps you might learn a fact or two about esthetics, taste, performance practice, technique, art, and logic. You'll be starting from scratch in all those areas, so any knowledge for you will be a plus.
tightlygagged 2 years ago
I would hardly call a BM in vocal performance from the Peabody Conservatory with a cumulative GPA of 3.78 "starting from scratch."
First off, last I checked, a semicolon is used when two complete sentences need to be joined into one to indicate that the two are part of the same thought, and are often used to clarify. You even used one in your other comment to clarify that you used a semicolon. Clearly, you know how to use them, so don't try to claim that you meant something else by it.
currymuttonpizza 2 years ago
If you are indeed a real performer, I wish you luck with that attitude of yours. Competition is too fierce out there to be calling people idiots. I certainly wouldn't want you as my colleague.
currymuttonpizza 2 years ago
Also, if you think knowledge would be a plus for me, perhaps you should have some as well. You mentioned that Steber's voice is ten times larger... as I am writing an essay on this piece, I have a quote from one of Barber's letters to his uncle right in front of me as part of my research:
"Do you like her? Her voice seems very small to me, but she is intelligent. There seem to be no young singers (or old!) with enough voice to stand up against a symphony orchestra and I don't want Traubel."
currymuttonpizza 2 years ago
Steber actually commissioned this piece from Barber. There are three recordings of this piece with Steber-two orchestral, one with piano. This is from her famous Carneige Hall recital and the pianist is Steber's longtime accompanist, Edwin Bittcliffe.
organdude44 2 years ago
I prefer Leontyne. Her use of straight tone gives it a plaintive quality - a longing that I respond to.
sarahshi8 2 years ago
Could this be the largely forgotten and marvelous Erik Itor Kahn at the piano? He also accompanied Jennie Tourel.
billyguns2 3 years ago
Thanks for posting this! Who is at the piano?
The upside to this interpretation is that we can fully appreciate the power and inherent beauty of Ms. Steber's voice.
However, the reason I prefer the Dawn Upshaw interpretation so much is because she let's the text inform her musical decisions as opposed to letting her voice choose for her.
manidonno10 3 years ago
Wow, I couldn't disagree with you more. This was a signature piece for Ms. Steber. She was the first to record it (the orchastra version is amazing, but hard to find). I think it was a style at the time. Dawn becomes more "musical theater" with her music. And vocally, Dawn does not even come close to Steber.
jdeslauriers 3 years ago 2
Thanks for voicing your opinion!
I'll assume from your comment that you are not well-versed in Ms. Upshaw's discography, and (for your sake) I recommend you remedy this error. Even if you don't appreciate her vocal quality, one cannot help but recognize her innate musicianship and tireless support of contemporary composition.
I adore Steber's work (actually, my vocal coach studied with her at Juilliard) and I hope that my comment did not sound disparaging.
manidonno10 3 years ago
I adore Dawn. I have seen her in concert and I own some of her CDs. Also, have had some personal contact. But even she (and her teacher from MSM) will tell you the limitations of her natural born gift. I think she an incredible musician. I never suggested anything to the contrary. I just don't like her rendition of this. I don't really like Leontyne's either, but I have always had an extreme love hate relationship with her. It's just a matter of taste. (my old teacher was a Steberite as well!)
jdeslauriers 3 years ago