BTW, 1 and 2 Chronicles was likely written to put a positive spin on/replace the earlier 1 and 2 Samuel books, hence the contradicition that God/Satan commanded the census to be done.
I'm a new fan of yours. If you are looking for more ideas for videos, may I suggest reading the excellent but little known book "The Sins of King David" by Gary Greenberg. This treatise exposes the ridiculous, unlikeliness of the entire King David narrative, and it also points out how David would at first "forgive" his enemies, only later to have them murdered, a real "man after god's own heart" (1 Sam. 13:13-1).
It's sort of like a primitive version of ethics, where the city that probably houses the guilty person makes a sacrifice to make sure that the elders/rulers of the town don't knowingly allow random murders. But then, this is the Bible so how bad could they see murder? I mean really. Their deity is a mass murderer.
I think this is my favorite one. It's the CSI intro. Ha! The Bible really is nuts. It should be considered a form of abuse to indoctrinate children with this stuff.
I wish these videos would have no mention of the bible until the very end. So that way the christians could be like, "Yeah that's one fucked up religion... oh wait, that's my religion!"
2 minutes ago the Holy Ghost appeared to me last night, (or maybe it was the tooth fairy, it was too dark to tell.) anyway he told me to spread the word of Bob. Bob i said. and he said, "yes Bob, spread the word of Bob." then i said, "I'm ready, I'm ready." he said, "perfect, now spread the word." then he disappeared back into the closet. i still don't know what he meant.
dot, propaganda. is telling ppl you are a terrible person its ok god loves you and can make you well. this is the same as a wife beater telling her, " if i dint care bout you i wudnt beat you, i do it out of love"
I would piss on you but thus you're pissing on me. Care not do I caring is more then you will know because you are that shell that see only yourself and nothing more.
43 , yes thats a positive attitude its just i wonder how to get thru. the truth can be right in front of someone but still cant see it. i really think its emotion that gets in the way. ppl get protective of ideals as part of themselves their ego. so they fight even when they kno they cud be wrong
My approach is to just keep showing them stuff they didn't know was there. Do it enough times, and maybe something in their life will remind them that they are only getting a spoon-fed version.
With this video, maybe the next time they see The 10 Commandments in a courthouse they will remember this story.
If a religious person actually reads the Bible, he has to do one of two things: discard it or try to explain everything away. There are few moderate Christians familiar with the Bible.
@43alley It would be easy to make videos that cherry pick atheism&are far more damning about about atheisms history. I live next to North Korea&China where atheism had full control. Do you not find it a bit disturbing that in almost every case where atheism has become the official philosophy of a nation (from the French Revolution to the present), that exactly there the most extreme forms of intolerance, torture, massacres &such in the entire history of mankind have also been perpetrated?
Don't confuse atheism as a religion. The countries you're talking about are communist and/or totalitarian. Their problems have a lot to do with civil rights, not religion.
Can you extend your argument to Iceland, Finland & Norway? Are you aware that they are atheistic countries and are statistically the most healthy, educated, least depressed, etc in the world?
@43alley Atheism is about the most faith based religion in the world. Communism has nothing to do with the reason these people murdered masses of people. See below. No countries today are officially atheist besides communist ones. And even before that, the countries you mention do not have a majority of atheists. Also, Denmark, Norway (which are about 80% Christian) and other European nations, follow Biblical economics and basic economic rights for all much better than America.
@dotoree Am I understanding you correct if I what I got from one of your post, is that you're saying that Denmark and other European countries are following biblical economics? Please correct me if I understood you wrong, but if that is what you meant, then that is really not the case at all. Our economic princibles have nothing to do with the bible... at least in Denmark.
Why do I attribute faith to atheism? All rational&scientific concepts MUST have evidence. Atheism denies that gods exist. So,it must demonstrate evidence that life can come by random chance,without superior intelligence. Lacking belief in something doesnt make you right. Scientists at Pasteurs day lacked belief in bacteria. They were wrong. I can say, I lack belief in atheism. Does that make me right? No. All beliefs, positive or negative, that want to be rational must provide evidence.
"Why do I attribute faith to atheism? All rational&scientific concepts MUST have evidence"
Atheism is merely the rejection of a personal god, it's not a science, nor a religion. It doesnt require infinite knowledge of the natural universe (theism does:-) and only needs an argument why we dont accept the claims of religion (both laughable empirically and philosophically).
The rest of your comment is a rephrasing of your first "argument"
"So,it must demonstrate evidence that life can come by random chance"
Strawman. Either educate yourself or be intellectually honest.
Furthermore, same non sequitur as previous comment (We dont have to proof the natural world exists, since we agree on that. You posit a magic unfalsifiable supernatural entity, so YOU have to proof that..simple as that. String theory posits 11 dimensions so THEY have to proof that too)
"Lacking belief.." Nope, it´s lacking an ADDITIONAL belief
You are wrong in your understanding of science,proof &evidence. You can't just say magic words, "I lack belief"&bingo you're right. Science has NEVER worked like that. What science ACTUALLY does is look at the weight of evidence. Theism says all life came from intelligent being. We have billions of confirmations that life always comes from life. Atheism claims that life can come from non-life(it MUST claim this since it says gods don't exist). We don't have even 1 case of this.
@ReligionInTheBin LOL, I teach people to identiy fallacies at a university and avoid them like a plague. Atheism IS a worldview and it is ~100% faith based religion in the sense that it believes life can come without superior intelligence even though there is not one piece of testable evidence for that. If you say that your atheism is based only on faith...OK, you can believe whatever you want. Just don't call it science or rational as many people do.
@dotoree i think you really believe this stuff dot, but you dont see that things like saying jesus represents a scape goat isnt propaganda but real logical discourse. that giving ppl a choice of guessing if jesus isnt god or not can land them in hell. thats the choice right? noone comes to dad but thru me. gospels were written 70 sum yrs after the fact, to get everthing right wud be difficult at best.
@dotoree dot thanks for input,my point is that today if a crime goes down they cant be positive bout what happened and every day longer it gets harder to get to the actual occurence.written 75 yrs after the actual happenings alot cudda been mistrued especially in a time without science and alotta superstition.and dot really all god wud hafta do is appear in the sky to all ppl and say hey its me. never does tho
@adzug Although human knowledge is imperfect and we can always be open to new information, yes,we can be quite reasonable certain about what causes things using control groups with only one difference and things like that.
The Bible was NOT written 75 years after the events. Some of our manuscripts may have come from that time, true. But,that has no bearing on when the original author actually wrote. Most manuscripts of history are FAR MORE separated from the original authors than the Bible is.
@adzug As to God appearing in the sky, no person can see God and live the Bible says and so it's in mercy that God does not do that. But, God did incredible miracles for people and they still found ways to doubt, complain and disbelieve because people have a natural tendency to rebellion. But, God veiled his glory and came to earth in the person of Jesus as well. Did miracles that that witnesses. People still rejected that. People who are biased will find a way to reject anything.
@dotoree dot we disagree. you teach ppl to see falacies, its very convieient that god cant appear to us for we die. that he show us miracles and still ppl wont believe. 1 god doesnt make its presence clear, 2 this is evidence by so many ppl having such differant veiws of god. weve made god into our image, the muslims insist jews n xtians have it wrong. hindus tell you of many gods. these arent minor details. ppl arent finding ways to reject, the proofs not clear.
@adzug A) With due respect, I teach people to identify fallacies at the university level and I avoid them like the dishonest plague that they are. I can't even begin to count the innumerable fallacies that atheists use against Christianity. Some people have believed miracles and prophecies and science truth from the Bible. But, some people prefer to follow pride and selfishness and ignorance instead of the Bible, science and truth.
@adzug Many people having different ideas of God is no different from many scientists having different hypothesese about different aspects of science. It just means that people in religion and science sometimes follow traditions, dogma, and wrong hypotheses instead of following testable facts and where the evidence leads. Also, our knowledge is imperfect, so that is a factor at first too.
@dotoree its very differant dot. science agrees on gravity evolution plate tectonics, there may be discrpencies in how things happened but not what. relig has many diff ideas that quite contradict each other, no one comes to dad but thru me, theres no god but allah and MOHAMMED is his messanger. thats huge right there
@adzug Yes, there are many views in religion, just as there are different views on major things in science, string theory for example is a MAJOR new theory that many don't agree on. But, we should expect this and the Bible explicitly predicts that there will be many massive deceptions as we get closer to the end of the world because Satan knows his time is short.
@adzug Evolution has such an incredible lack of evidence supporting it that it's best proponents keep on trying to figure out new versions such as punctuated equilibrium to explain why the fossil record is soooo bereft of what should be there if evolution were true. For example, if evolution were true, there should be maybe 100 times more failed partially functional organs and body structures in life forms than there are fully functional ones. We just don't see this in the fossil record.
@adzug And again, many creation scientists LONG before Darwin wrote and published ideas on natural selection in line with Genesis. ALL speciation up to the family level falls completely within creation science...ALL cases we know of so far fall within creation science. NONE fall within Darwinian speculations that are different from creation science. NONE. But, evolutionists are not honest enough to tell you this, at least the establishment isn't.
@dotoree theres no such thing as evolutionists but... theres no conspiracy its just a search for objective truth, thats why we have pcs radio tv medicine and industry.all this without having to base science on a creator.if there is 1 it doesnt even matter.science is about the real natural world, gods about super nature, outside of this world.and theres tons of junk dna. vestigal body parts and clear transformation tween species.
@adzug@adzug Yes, science is about repeatable tests and that's exactly why it's a very very poor tool to use in proving existence, events in history, who invented something and a host of other things. MUCH in human experience and esp. in history is far beyond science's ability to test because history is not a repeatable thing. That's why we use the scientific method which is every bit as valid as the scientific method.
@adzug Radio, TV, medicine, industry and even computers have no need for evolution whatsoever to progress. Most made gigantic progress long before evolution was taught. God is not about super nature. He's about EVERYTHING that exists. There is no junk DNA or vestigial parts. That's been debunked LONG ago. Change between species is 100% within creation science and does NOTHING to help evolution's claims.
@adzug Vestigial parts and junk DNA have been alleged about 100s of things. But, we now know the functions and vital importance of nearly ALL of the 180 organs originally alleged to be vestigial by Robert Wiedersheim & many more. Please google and read:
A) "Vestigial arguments: remnants of evolution"
B) Junk DNA—past, present, and future part 1" (and read part 2 as well)
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Saying something is vestigial or junk basically means that at present that person is ignorant of its function.
@adzug God is being merciful by not appearing to you as he really is. You'd die if He did. That's NOT convenience, it's mercy towards you. But also, God expects us to use a little faith based on a LOT of evidence. ALL relationships need trust. So does the one with God. The evidences are VERY clear if you are fair and objective and don't use logical fallacies.
@dotoree hes the omnicient omnipotent god, he cud appear or make something equivelent appear. he cud easily make himself known as undeniable.but he doesnt.and i was a believer at a time but saw the light.theres a reason theres no creationist atheists. creationism/id is turned down time n agin cuz its not science based. theres a presumption of god. theres no fallacy here.
@adzug God HAS demonstrated his existance in a host of ways ranging from science to very specific prophecies covering millenia to appearing veiled through his son and others in ways that are VERY undeniable...but God gave people free choice to follow delusions and double standards if they choose to. The reason there are no creationist atheists is because atheism denies gods even exist...duh.
@dotoree dot you cant just say that when ive pointed out that gods existence isnt clear by the vast disagree,ents about wat it is and wat it wants and thinks.science isnt about an agenda to disprove god its about finding unbias truth thats quantitative.repeatable tests and evidence.the reason god doesnt show up in science isnt cuz it doesnt exist its that theres no proof or need for god. you cant just fill in the gaps with it.
@adzug Yes, I can say that there is vast proof for God because there most certainly is. The problem is that atheist detest using consistent standards. There is FAR more evidence for God than there is for NUMEROUS people in our history textbooks and in many other ways. You don't demand that Abraham Lincoln appear before you to prove that he exists. Stop using double standards.
@dotoree There is FAR more evidence for God than there is for NUMEROUS people in our history textbooks and in many other ways. You don't demand that Abraham Lincoln appear before you to prove that he exists. Stop using double standards
LMAO You are proof that religion casues brain damage. Can u point to jesus peronal portrait, legal writings, personal record, journal? Oh an lets not forget the vast missing early childhood. Explain how we have as much evidence for jesus as Lincoln
@dotoree "Yes, I can say that there is vast proof for God because there most certainly is."
Can you please show me this vast proof? I'd really like to see it, especially as since throughout the history of mankind no-one has been able to assert such a thing successfully. It seems highly implausible that such a revelation could be discovered by a youtube commenter rather than a theologian or minister, but I'm happy to give you a chance :)
@Dallo10 I didn't discover it. Scientists, professors, pastors and just regular hard working people in different fields of endeavor have uncovered massive amounts of evidence for centuries using both the scientific and historical method. The problem is that what counts as evidence in normal areas, is suddenly trashed whenever it's used to support a religious conclusion. This is a double standard, apriori bias and grossly unjust and NOT following the evidence where it leads.
@Dallo10 I am by the way, a professor in a university (have taught at both secular and Christian universities) and a volunteer pastor. But, I'd like first to know what you would consider evidence...remembering what counts as evidence for other historical events, and people, etc. and what counts for evidence,etc. I enjoy discovery channel sometimes..and the evidence for many aspects of God is FAR greater than many things that professors there believe are true.
@dotoree I guess I'd start by asking this Deity to show Himself to me. If He is really all-knowing, then He knows exactly what is required to convince me of His existence, if He is all-powerful then He has the means to do so, and if He is all-loving and wants us all to love Him, then He has a motive to do this, yet He doesn't. There is a contradiction here, so either one of these things we are taught about Him is wrong, or He isn't logical, or more likely, He does not exist, At least in my eyes.
@Dallo10 Yes, there are all sorts of people here on Youtube. It's good to check and compare evidence, esp. the WEIGHT of evidence. I also sometimes wish God would show himself to me visibly :)...but no human can endure that. God's brilliance&purity would kill us. God did appear in veiled form, in Jesus and did miracles. God has given MUCH evidence, but God values some faith-trust, just like all human relationships do. Watch the Cosmic Conflict video I sent to you.
@Dallo10 Asking God to prove His own existence is like asking an artist to show his brushstrokes. No, it would ruin the whole thing. If you ask me, there's too much beauty in the Universe for it all to be an accident.
@scharb So instead of showing himself and ending the mystery and bring order and harmony he'd rather leave mankind to slaughter each other for centuries in the name of him or any 'wrong' God or any other interpretation of a book, or a book based on the book about the story of a particular family through history?
@scharb And there is nothing more beautiful and fulfilling than trying to understand the beauty of the universe, rather than putting it all down to superstition and unknowables.
@dotoree And I didn't mean to sound insulting about your credentials, it's just that on youtube for all I know you could have been some 10-year old trolling here. :)
@adzug@adzug The God of the Gaps argument is an ignorant fallacy of atheists. Here's why. We have cars running around us that give every appearance of being designed for certain function. Science can't prove hardly anything about who designed them, who brought the materials or who built them. Also, explaining how a car works does NOT EVER mean you have no need for a designer. That's extremely ludicrous. Same for nature.
@adzug Yes, there most certainly are evolutionists and some call themselves that too. There also is a grossly unjust conspiracy to remove creation science from education. It was NEVER done by looking at science. It was done by looking at whether creationism had any religious content and then banning it's science due to that...That's similar to banning evolution solely because it came from Darwin.
@adzug NO, you have been VERY duped. Creationism/ID is turned down SOLELY on the basis that it has religious connectinos. IT has billions of confirmable tests from both the scientific and the historical method. The ONLY reason it is excluded is because it has religious connections. The same principle applied fairly would exclude anything connected to Darwin solely because he originated it regardless of the science.
@adzug Don't be ignorant about science please. ALL scientists have presuppositions and preferences and biases...you aren't human if you don't have those. And evolutionists and atheists presuppose evolution is true and exclude all evidence to the contrary FAR FAR more than Christians EVER do. NO, science does NOT agree on evolution or even on plate tectonics and don't you dare conflate gravity with evolution. That's blatantly deceitful.
@ReligionInTheBin Straw man: Religion doesn't require infinite knowledge of the natural universe. GIGANTIC straw man, the claims of religion are laughable. FACT is the Bible has billions of confirmations of it's claims in science and history that are crucial for life and were made millenia ahead of the best scientists. If you don't know anything about what you criticize, you better not expose your ignorance, injustice and incompetence.
@MrKennyKRHit guarantees all a basic level of opportunity&quality of life.
2)Denmark society seems to be a post-consumer society with people more interested in relationships than in becoming rich. This is very much in line with biblical philosophy. While money is important,those who chase money as a #1 goal usually lose out in happiness.
There are several other aspects too. Some of these ideas come from studies by different scientists shortly summarized at QuestDOTbluezonesDOTcom
@dotoree Where did you get the information that Denmark seems like a post-consumer society? Cause it doesn't sound very like Denmark. The general impression in Denmark is that we're getting more and more materialistic, like every other western country. Oh yeah, if you didn't know already, I'm from Denmark.
@MrKennyKRH Yes, I surmised that you're from Denmark :). But, there have been MANY researchers studying Denmark for decades since it has scored so high on happiness levels. There is much research I have comparing the values of people in different societies...and the bluezones video I referred to is just a VERY short version of that. The average is that Denmark is far less materialistic than places like USA or Korea (but of course there are always exceptions to statistics and averages).
@dotoree We might be less materialstic than the US or Korea, again that's not what I have a beef for, it is that you contribute that, it seems to me at least, to us being a majority of Christians and that is definitely not why we are less materialistic. And if religion was at all a factor in how materialistic a country is, then the US would be less materialistic than Denmark, since the US is far more religious than us. Wouldn't you agree?
@MrKennyKRH By the way, America is nowhere close to my ideal in so many ways. They used to be best and wonderful...but for a host of reasons, some of them moral and religious in my opinion, but others as well, they have lost their edge and leadership in quite a few areas, esp. to nations such as Korea, Denmark, Finland, China, etc. From my studies I think a BIG reason is connected to those nations ironically following biblical values better than the US.
@dotoree Okay what I'm getting from you is that you believe some values from the bible align with values from e.g. Denmark. I can agree with that. But the question is, did we adopt those values because we flipped open the bible or did we get those values because there was a slow trend developing in various european countries that favored socialistic principles in the late 1800 and throughout the 1900?
@dotoree We might be a socialistic country, but it is nowhere near the economic principles you describe in the bible. The gap between rich and poor in this country is increasing at a steady rate and has been for many years. So I feel that you saying our economics is at all similar to the bibles, which sounds to me like communism, is because you don't know any better. I'm sorry, but it is just not true at all.
...A) socialism recognizes that everyone has the basic human right to free health care, free education &certain basics like that.
B) It unfortunately though allows some people to get out of working and still be supported by other people's hard work...something that makes it hard to sustain long term.
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A is FAR closer to biblical economics than capitalism has ever been. B conflicts with biblical economics since it enables laziness.
@dotoree Heh heh, I lol'ed a bit at that laziness remark. At least in the case of Denmark... did you know that our unemployment percentage was lower than even the US before the financial meltdown.... so much for laziness... at least for us. =P
@MrKennyKRH LOL on that laziness remark. That's an interesting point you make and one that I've been thinking about recently. My thinking at present is that in societies where money is #1, people would probably take advantage of the system and try to do as little work as possible for the easiest life. But, some cultures put relationships, community, etc. much higher than wealth, so that would reduce the abuse of the system. What do you think?
@dotoree In the case of Denmark I cannot concur with you on that argument. Our unemployment percentage has only been decreasing because of our right-wing government, who has been in power for the last 8 or so years. They ONLY care about money. For instance they give tax-cuts to the wealthiest, while those with less get almost nothing. They could have spend that money on sociaty as a whole, but they chose tax-cuts. cont.
@dotoree cont. Our previous government was left-wing and our unemployment percentage was much higher then. One example of their policy was that they gave alot more in welfare, so the incentive to work was much lower. So the reason we have low unemployment, at least before the financial meltdown was our right-wing government, whose main priority is being among the richest countries in the world. They would rather spend money on tax-cuts than repairing schools.
@dotoree So your premise that perhaps we have low unemployment is because we put relationships and community ahead of wealth does not apply to our current policies. And I can tell you, we have more than enough abuse of the system here. Freeloaders are abundant here, especially big corporations who pay not even a dime in taxes because of loopholes in our laws. We are not in any way perfect, but at least we're not as bad as the US imo.
A) The Bible never commands anyone to die for working on Sunday.
B) There is no rule telling people to kill heathens (there was a very limited case of judging a few nations that rejected God for centuries, but that never was a general rule).
C) There are certain strict rules in the OT, but if you look at them in depth, all were designed to enhance life and save the most lives possible both here on earth and for eternity.
@MrKennyKRH By the way,America is nowhere close to my ideal in so many ways. They used to be best in many areas, but for a host of reasons, some of them moral&religious in my opinion, they have lost their edge&leadership in quite a few areas, esp. to nations such as Korea, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, China, etc. From my studies I think a BIG reason is connected to those nations ironically following biblical values better than the US even though they may not be as overtly religious.
@MrKennyKRH Claiming to be religious but not following God's principles is something Jesus called hypocrisy and vain religion. It doesn't matter how much people profess to be religious or non-religious, the important thing to look at is whether they are following the principles God wrote about in the Bible and what those effects are. Google-aish seminar "perfect world" for another very interesting seminar on the contributions of the Bible to modern values.
@dotoree Then most of the danish Christians are hypocrits. Doesn't that just make the case, that our happiness is not because of biblical values, but perhaps instead of a socialistic trend in europe that just happens to align with some biblical values. Don't forget, we don't stone people for working on a sunday and we don't kill heathens. Our values only align with the good stuff in the bible.
@MrKennyKRH The research is comparing Denmark to places like USA. It's not saying Danes don't have any material goods,etc. Having a cell phone doesn't make you a materialist. Relative to the USA &similar countries, Denmark puts a far higher value on community than on getting rich (although it could be changing as many countries are). The simple premise is that when nations guarantee everyone the basics of life and equal opportunity, as the Bible instructed 3k years ago, all are happier.
@MrKennyKRH Most people dont understand Biblical economic principles enough to compare(it has NOTHING to do with communism).The Bible guaranteed that all people have an equitable amount of natural resources that they could work to supply their basic needs or become rich if they worked hard. Sharing natural resources is an economic system that great thinkers from ALL spectrums say is the only just economic system AND it produces FAR more economic growth than either socialism or capitalism do.
@MrKennyKRH I didn't say Denmark's economic system is identical to the Bible's economic theory, but it is a fact that it is FAR closer to it than Capitalism. God's system guarantees some basic opportunity at a good life but also protects the free market system which gives incentives to work hard. It avoids the abuses-excesses of both capitalism, communism and socialism.
@dotoree Well I didn't claim that you said socialism and biblical economic principles were identical. I concur that socialism is far closer to biblical economics than capitalism... at least the version the US operates with, cause Denmark is also a capitalistic country, just not as extreme as the US. continued...
@dotoree continued... The gap between rich and poor in the US is atrocious, our gap seems tiny compared to that. It's just that our success and happiness have nothing to do with a religion, so you shouldn't imply that it is.
@MrKennyKRH The closer we get to God's principles, the happier people are for a host of reasons. Economic reasons are just one example. Health reasons are another (since it's quite difficult to be happy when you're dying of cancer, etc. or frequently sick). Genuine religion has a DIRECT correlation with health, happiness, success and other things for a host of reasons that are thoroughly documented and almost impossible to dispute. The research and documentation is overwhelming.
@dotoree So your two points on how the danish society is compatible with Christian principles are simply not accurate. I wouldn't mind hearing which other Christian principles you believe align with Denmark, cause they might be wrong too and I feel you should know this, cause it's not right that you use false claims in your arguments imo.
@MrKennyKRH With due respect, I teach in a university and I have 100,000 files gathered from all sorts of sources, Christian and secular. I'm not perfect or all-knowing, but I do not make claims unless there are hard facts to support them. It's possible to show me wrong, but you'll have to work AWFULLY hard to provide hard data proving that since I've gathered SOOO much data to support what I say already.
@dotoree Well your first claim that socialism is more alike the biblical economic principles than capitalism, is a no-brainer. I don't disagree on that. My beef is with how you seem to imply that we have socialism because we are 85% Christian and have Christian beliefs. That's all.... cause that is NOT why we have socialism. We are not a very religious country, so that's why I think you shouldn't contribute Christian beliefs to our happiness.
@MrKennyKRH The history of most of western civilization is Christian&whether people are actively religious now or not,still many of the values of Christianity are things that are still followed due to the Bible's influence&are significant factors in happiness. As far as Denmark being post-consumerist, google-Denmark bluezones Then, watch the 6 minute video on Denmark (things could be changing tho). Btw, thanks for the civil conversation. Many don't seem to know how to do that here unfortunately.
@dotoree I watched the video, heh it's always nice to have your country be praised. But to your post-consumerist point. I cannot recognise it. I mean we might be less post-con. than other countries like the US, but in Denmark everybody has a cellphone, most people have a car, nearly everybody has a computer and a tv and a gaming console, we spend more and more money on christmas every year. Every I go I hear we're getting more materialistic... that is the truth.
@dotoree Your second point that we are a post-consumer country just doesn't ring a bell with me and what I hear in our news. What I've been hearing in news and programs on TV for many years is that we're getting less and less religious and more materialistic. That's why I can't subscribe to that point of yours. If you have hard evidence of that claim and I can view it online, please send me a link if you would.
@dotoree Even if you teach in a university, as you say yourself, that doesn' mean you're all-knowing. You have some claims about Denmark where you, it seems to me, contribute Christian beliefs to our happiness and general awesomeness =).... and as a dane living in this said country I am telling you that I cannot recognise your claims... at least in the way that it is because we're Christian. part 1
@dotoree Your claims might be correct, I haven't seen the research you're referring to, but as soon as you imply that it is because of Christian beliefs, then I have to object, cause that is not the reality that I'm experiencing as a dane. And your request of hard evidence is something I don't have readily at hand, I would have to find it first. What I definitely can bring to the table, is my general impression of my country tha I get from various news outlets.
biblical principles in daily&the results of that and also the effects of Christianity from the past. It's clear that being an active&genuine Christian following Gods principles has significant benefits to health, relationships, economics, etc. But, in the case of both science and the Bible, even if people aren't religious or science minded, they receive benefits from both because of the influence of the past, philosophy that has become common due to them and others who do follow them.
@MrKennyKRH Here's an example. Somebody living in modern culture could reject science and treat it as something useless and stupid (and there are a few who do). Even if they don't respect science and ignore it and reject it, still many benefits that they experience would be due to the contributions of science to our modern life. Similarly, whether people are actively religious or not really doesn't matter to the point I'm making. What's important is whether they are following...
@dotoree I don't feel that analogy can be used. Science has irrefutable results, as for instance without it, we wouldn't be able to debate over the internet. Denying scientific achievements is blatantly stupid imo. But biblical values cannot be compared to science like that and I'll tell you why, at least in the case of similar values between danish society and the bible. cont.
@MrKennyKRH The Bible has billions of confirmations of MANY 100% testable theories. Denying scientific achievements is very stupid. So is denying the scientific knowledge in the Bible that was 3,000 years ahead of it's time and was crucial to saving millions of lives. The Bible has been far more valuable to improving human life than science has in science, medicine, hygiene, quarantine, the blood cycle and in a variety of other ways.
@MrKennyKRH The science&Bible correlation I stated is true. Health for example.
--The Bible said that life is in the blood. Anyone who followed this principle & avoided the medical practice of bleeding patients,regardless of whether they believed in God,would benefit.
--The Bible said that the veggie diet is ideal&identified which meats were clean or unclean(unhealthy) if you insisted on eating meat. People who follow the Bible health ideals are far healthier even if they don't believe in God.
@dotoree Life is in the blood... you see that as a scientific fact? But it is so vague. And do you really think that before the bible, people didn't know that to be healthy you should also eat veggies? I eat veggies and low fat meat, I avoid unhealthy foods as much as I can... because that is healthy, not because it says so in the bible. If the billions of scientific confirmations are like those you listed, then I am not very impressed.
@MrKennyKRH You have more experience in living in Denmark than I do for sure, but I NEVER said that my ideas were based on my experience. They are based on hundreds of thousands of studies covering over 100 countries. This is not a study Kenny. It's a meta study. You are talking what you see on the news and what you experience, neither of which are anywhere close to as accurate as a meta study.
@dotoree With the meta study you're referring to the post consumer thing, right? But I have already said that I concur that we danes very likely are less materialistic than e.g. the US. But that doesn't we are like in the bible... we still want our hightech gadgets and all the other luxury items we're accustomed to. And you can't budge me on the religious matter. I'm positive that Christianity is not the reason why we have a socialistic society. =)
@MrKennyKRH Do you think people in the Bible didn't like material things? That is SOOO wrong :). I can't budge you on the religious matter? Rational people are supposed to follow the evidence wherever it leads. To say you can't be budged is an apriori fallacy. My point is that when people follow the Bible's principles closer, for whatever reason (even if they don't know about the Bible), they are happier, healthier, etc.
@dotoree I said you can't budge me (at least with your current arguments), not that I couldn't be budged at all. I am more than willing to revise my beliefs if new evidence comes up. But you haven't shown any evidence that we were influenced by the bible when we became socialistic. Basicly you're saying that because the bible and our society share SOME similarities in our values, then we must have been influenced by the bible cause it's very old. I'm sorry that's not evidence to me.
@MrKennyKRH I NEVER claimed that people read the Bible and decided to becom socialistic. NEVER. Please stop misrepresenting what I have said. I DID say that the closer people come to living God's principles the happier they will be and socialism, esp. Denmark's style, is a LOT closer to the Bible than capitalism in several crucial ways. And FOR SURE the Bible has had an influence on Denmark. That's indisputable. Many values that modern people have are ONLY because of Christian history.
@dotoree But what you did say was: "Statistically speaking, the Danes are the happiest people in the world and they are ~80% Christian AND give basic economic rights to all."
You're implying we're because we're Christian and that's not the case.
@MrKennyKRH The Bible pioneered a number of VERY crucial concepts in science, economics, health and other areas. ANY TIME people follow these concepts and experience the benefits, they show that the Bible was correct and wisest from the start. In most cases, no one would have thought of these ideas without the Bible because it was the Bible that first made the concepts of human rights and economic rights and civil rights for all crucial values.
To give you an idea of how different the past was, doctors in the 1800s were recommending bleeding & smoking as a medicine for lung&respiratory problems. Until the 1800s, more soldiers died in war from unsanitary conditions than died from bullets. These 3&more were MASSIVE ideological differences. Do you want future people to consider the work of scientists these days as NOTHING? Then DO NOT be so unjust&belittle the Bibles science which saved the lives of millions.
2) Spontaneous generation was truth for the smartest scientists for millennia. The Bible disagreed&said life ONLY comes from other life. Pasteur was ridiculed, but did many tedious experiments that proved the Bible right& so this biblical idea with billions of confirmations is now known as biogenesis.
3) NOBODY knew that the veggie diet was best for health until recent times. Dont impose your knowledge on ancients. They did NOT have it. Btw,eating lowfat meat means you are not vegetarian.
@dotoree Just because science hasn't proved that life can come from non-life yet, that doesn't mean it won't in the future. Science is and has always been a work-in-progress, it is unreasonable and quite frankly silly to expect science to have all the answers RIGHT NOW.
When I said veggies, that was short for vegetables. I'm not a vegetarian and I never will be... ever. Need my meat, heh heh. :P
@MrKennyKRH Just because science hasn't proved that life can come from non-life yet, that doesn't mean it won't in the future.
- True, but that's a faith statement, wishful thinking, etc. NOT something to base any rational view on. Respectfully you are using the term vague incorrectly. If I said that life was somewhere in the universe, somewhere in the body, THAT would be vague. Giving a specific location cannot be vague in any sense of the term.
@dotoree It's not a faith statement, cause I'm not saying science WILL prove life can come from non-life. I'm saying it hasn't yet, as in I'm not ruling out that it could prove it, but I am also not saying that it definitely will prove it. I don't know if science will ever prove it. The origin of life happened a very long time ago and I don't mind if we never find the exact cause. But what I will not say is "god did it", that's like giving up imo. UNLESS someone can convince me otherwise.
@MrKennyKRH If you don't have evidence, you're using ONLY 100% faith, pure and simple and you can't claim to be following a rational belief if you don't have evidence. You don't mind if we NEVER find out what happened? You will ignore billions of confirmations plus 1000s of historical evidences and numerous other testimonies and choose to follow IGNORANCE instead. Following the facts where they lead is NOT giving up. It's being a genuine rational and scientific thinker.
@MrKennyKRH Don't confuse modern understanding with ancient understanding. MUCH that you learn about science came directly from Christian culture&scientists &was completely UNKNOWN to other ancient cultures &was not common sense for ANY OF THEM.
1) The BEST scientists and doctors in the world for 2,000 years bled sick people because they thought blood was harmful (due to Greek "science"). The Bible's statement was a crucial life and death difference from that...
@dotoree I guess you're referring to "life is in the blood" again. As I said before, that is too vague for me to be impressed by it. Since you say there are billions of confirmed scientific information in the bible, would you mind giving me some other examples besides the "life is in the blood" one?
@MrKennyKRH No, you do not NEED your meat. You may LIKE it :), but you do not have any need for it. No one does. Re: billions of confirmations, I sent you a brief mail with 20 different cases of Bible scientific knowledge much of which was millenia ahead of it's time AND very specific and some that is extremely crucial for life, or fundamental paradigm shifts. Biogenesis and Creationist natural selection are 2 that have billions of confirmations in addition to life is in the blood.
@dotoree When I say I need my meat, especially with a smily after, I'm saying I don't want to be without it. I am fully aware that meat is not a necessity. ;)
And I can tell you before even responding to that mammoth PM that I don't consider any of them to be specific. Your PM is basicly you or others interpreting a vague passage in the bible.
@MrKennyKRH With due respect, I'm a professor teaching language at the university level and you are completely misusing the terms vague and specific. Something vague is like this:
"I'll meet somebody, somewhere at some point in the future." THAT'S VAGUE and not specific. But, when God says that life ONLY comes from other life and lists specific characteristics of healthy and unhealthy meats and so much more, call that vague is nothing but the most blatant dishonesty.
@dotoree It's vague to me in the sense that it's not very specific. The bible doesn't say why some meats are unhealthy or healthy, it doesn't specify what "life is in the blood" means. All those things are open to interpretation and none of it leads me to believe that a god is responsible for saying it.
@MrKennyKRH The Bible does NOT need to say why some meats are unhealthy or healthy to be specific. Again you are GRAVELY misusing vocabulary. And if it did, it would have been ridiculed for millenia. The Bible says LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD. There is NOT ONE IOTA of a need to specify further. No blood. No life. NONE OF THESE ARE INTERPRETATION OR VAGUE. THIS IS MY FIELD OF TEACHING IN UNIVERSITY KENNY.
@dotoree You're saying the word of god would have been ridiculed, if for instance god had included a warning for bacteria in the bible and other specific guidelines? Perhaps among non-christian, but faithful Christians would have followed these outlines and would have benefited so much more and in the process would have proved them right aswell towards the non-believers, since they as a group would be visibly more healthy than others.
@MrKennyKRH If God put those ideas about bacteria in the Bible, non-Christians would have pointed that out as "unscientific"..and sadly many Christians would have followed them instead of God as has happened throughout history (ex: bleeding patients). God put instructions in the Bible that would save lives, but didn't give the details for this reason above AND because he gave us brains to use to enjoy discovery.
@dotoree I see and how do you know that? Do you have a direct hotline to god? This is just your opinion and it sounds like an excuse to me.
And you say god put instructions in the bibe, but didn't give the details.... well that is exactly why I can't believe in a god. Those instruction were written by men and now modern day Christians are interpreting those instructions to mean more than they did.
@MrKennyKRH God DID tell people why he gave them these rules though. He told them in several places that they to give them good health and long life and prosperity and to display their wisdom to the nations and things like that and it's no coincidence that the Israelis are some of the wealthiest people on the planet as well as having won far more nobel prizes than is normal for their population size.
@dotoree Far more nobel prizes... that's an exaggeration and per capita they are the 28. richest country... 23 places below Denmark. And if the US didn't shower them with money like they do, they would be lower.
@MrKennyKRH See the private message I sent you. Israelis have won ~22% of all Nobel prizes. They are in the top 10-12 richest countries, that's ~the top 5-7%. And American money goes for military and govt. things. It has nothing to do with how much people earn.
@dotoree The 22% I would need proof for. I looked at wikipedia and it says Israel has won 9 nobel prizes. And what list of richest contries are you using? The one I looked at for 2009, they were around 28. And that is per capita. And if Israel didn't get money for the military and government, then they'd have to use that money themselves.
@MrKennyKRH It is completely BOGUS that the Bible's science was written by men. NOBODY in the ancient world, not even the best scientists of the best nations knew this and you think desert tribesmen without even a nation or schools could get the science of bacteria, biogenesis, blood and life, economics and 100s of other things ALWAYS right??? Be REASONABLE sir.
@MrKennyKRH That's just your interpretation of what's in the bible.
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Please do NOT misuse vocabulary. Interpretation is NOT just some opinion. It mostly refers to translating ideas from one language to another and there is NOTHING relative about that. I test my students on interpretation quite a bit. It is NOT relative I assure you. There is black and white right and wrong.
They challenge science to prove the existence of God. But must we really light a candle to see the sun?" Dr. Wernher von Braun, father of rocket science.
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correction on the 22%. I sent you the list privately. But, heres a summary from aboutDOTcom Of the 750 Nobel Prizes awarded worldwide between 1901 and 2007, at least 162 were awarded to Jews. While Jews are approximately 0.25% of the world's population, Jews make up approximately 22% of all Nobel Prize laureates worldwide.
Yes it most certainly is&again you're using apriori reasoning instead of following the evidence. Many of the greatest scientists in history AND the present consider it completely rational. Here's just one of 1000s. "...as I became exposed to the law&order of the universe, I was literally humbled by its unerring perfection. I became convinced that there must be a divine intent behind it all... My experiences with science led me to God
@dotoree Science doesn't lead to superstition, it dispels superstition. You became religious long before you were ever introduced to science and that tells me it was probably your parents. Your faith makes you acceptable to them but, it has also leaves you scientifically illiterate and emotionally incapable of acknowledging the obvious truth- your faith is false.
@VerumAdNauseam Science has sometimes dispelled superstition and sometimes invented it. Many became atheists LONG before they ever learned about religion. Does that mean it was their parents?
Don't start a discussion with an apriori fallacy (that I or Christians are scientifically illiterate, your faith is false). Apriori reasoning like that says a LOT more about your lack of ability to use ojective logic and science than anything else.
@dotoree Thanks for proving my point- that you're scientifically illiterate. Science doesn't do anything, scientists do. Science is just a method of discovering the truth without making it up. Scientists don't invent, they explore. They discover the truth of reality through research and peer review. Superstition is invented by selfish, uneducated thugs who don't understand the world they live in but want to control people by taking advantage of their gullibility or desperation.
@VerumAdNauseam Except, "science" is commonly referred to as the collective discipline and those within the study, scientists have used it in the exact way that dotoree has.
However, even scientists can be wrong - and, have been wrong. Scientists are humans too - and, likewise, have emotions, and desires. Some even have presuppositions, biases which effect their research; Others have falsified information.
At least one atheistic scientist has (falsely) claimed that "science is omnipotent."
@Zipster0007 Very true zipster. Dr. Thomas Kuhn, professor at 4 Ivy league universities wrote a seminal work on this topic called, "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" and del Ratzsch wrote another one called "The Philosophy of Science giving MANY evidences and examples of what you have said here and I was hinting at but, so busy that I didn't have time to respond.
@dotoree If God appeared in the sky, people would still not believe. It would be called a hoax, it would be dismissed as some elaborate trick played by conservatives.
Or, if people would believe, they would be utterly terrified.
However, why does he need to appear in the sky? Why is the account of Him appearing on Earth, in the form of a man, not as trustworthy as your idea of what God should do?
@Zipster0007 I think you directed this at the wrong person :) since I'm a lifelong Christian, volunteer pastor, have been a professor in both secular and Christian universities in recent years and when I have free time, I try to cure atheists of the delusions and innumerable logical fallacies that they have.
@VerumAdNauseam Come on, don't be so dense. "Science" is used by many on all sides to refer to scientists and their work. Yes, scientists DO invent. They invent hypotheses, including ones such as steady state and abiogenesis and spontaneous generation, all of which have failed as time has gone on and more evidence gathered, and the same will happen to evolution if objective science is not smothered by double standards and bias and propaganda.
@VerumAdNauseam Until you have provided solid testable from science for your views, you are the one that is scientifically illiterate and is betraying the scientific method. Most atheists talk big about following the scientific method...but when asked to provide TESTABLE evidence for abiogenesis or any kind of materialistic process producing evidence they turn traitor to the scientific method and start exhibiting more faith in mysticism than any religion on the planet.
@VerumAdNauseam Your faith is the thing that is false. Atheism is about the most faith based worldview on the planet. Christianity has billions of confirmations of many scientific claims it makes. Atheism has none and because it has none tries to claim that it just "lacks belief" and instead of pursuing evidence, it pursues ignorance and dismisses mountains of evidence that are far greater than the evidence for evolution AND many other things that we teach to students at all levels.
@VerumAdNauseam You are making false assumptions right and left as do most atheists. So, if someone was born into evolution or atheism, they would also by your principles be incapable of acknowledging the obvious truth, that their faith is false :). My parents are NOT the reason I follow creation science. I look at the evidence that supports creation vs. atheism, and the weight of evidence is almost all on the creation side. So I prefer to follow evidence where it leads instead of propaganda.
What happened to the video just before this one?
Ichijojichan 10 months ago
BTW, 1 and 2 Chronicles was likely written to put a positive spin on/replace the earlier 1 and 2 Samuel books, hence the contradicition that God/Satan commanded the census to be done.
Almamater8888 1 year ago
I'm a new fan of yours. If you are looking for more ideas for videos, may I suggest reading the excellent but little known book "The Sins of King David" by Gary Greenberg. This treatise exposes the ridiculous, unlikeliness of the entire King David narrative, and it also points out how David would at first "forgive" his enemies, only later to have them murdered, a real "man after god's own heart" (1 Sam. 13:13-1).
Almamater8888 1 year ago
It's sort of like a primitive version of ethics, where the city that probably houses the guilty person makes a sacrifice to make sure that the elders/rulers of the town don't knowingly allow random murders. But then, this is the Bible so how bad could they see murder? I mean really. Their deity is a mass murderer.
TheLonelyImmortal 1 year ago
Why are these video's unlisted? they are GREAT!
Plausiblesarge 1 year ago 2
@Plausiblesarge Because he is doing revised versions of these videos, which he will put up later again.
Schnittertm1 1 year ago
A very peculiar command from a supposedly omniscient being.
Raptor302 1 year ago
I think this is my favorite one. It's the CSI intro. Ha! The Bible really is nuts. It should be considered a form of abuse to indoctrinate children with this stuff.
TheAmericanMirror 1 year ago
The more I learn about the bible, the more disgusted I become with anyone who'd call themselves a christian. Such an evil, abhorrent book.
MegaMalfurion 1 year ago 4
That's the Bible for you.
"If in doubt, kill an animal"
jazzx251 1 year ago 2
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAA
marvincontendo 1 year ago
"Birth-Place of Gay Anal Sex" ROFL
mmmmmarcus 1 year ago
WHAT THE FUCK?
love your vids man (:
Vberg56 1 year ago
"The bible really understands justice and the value of life. Maybe we should start displaying excerpts from it in the Court Houses across the lands."
ROFLMAO
Kincajou 1 year ago 4
Yes, killing an animal will help. Give me a break. Religion is bullshit.
ViciousDave4Life 1 year ago 3
So this is the origin of "washing your hands of the matter."
milascave 1 year ago 2
I wish these videos would have no mention of the bible until the very end. So that way the christians could be like, "Yeah that's one fucked up religion... oh wait, that's my religion!"
vssia 1 year ago 60
God is a fucking psychopath
tavo5150 1 year ago 5
@tavo5150
That is not him (actually "it") ..that is what people think of God.
VannevarBush 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
2 minutes ago the Holy Ghost appeared to me last night, (or maybe it was the tooth fairy, it was too dark to tell.) anyway he told me to spread the word of Bob. Bob i said. and he said, "yes Bob, spread the word of Bob." then i said, "I'm ready, I'm ready." he said, "perfect, now spread the word." then he disappeared back into the closet. i still don't know what he meant.
oh man, that's one goofy ghost.
peace, lardo.
lardo444 1 year ago
That`s one fucked up story!
paolo27th 1 year ago
Religion is just plain fucking scary.
pokerstaaars 1 year ago 3
Christians are fucking retards
sage0857 1 year ago 31
@sage0857 This is ironic. Thumbs up! Herp Derp!
TheWalt09 1 year ago
Wow! Very creative and entertaining, the intro was hilarious. From a person who believes in God. Peace.
monopolydevil 1 year ago
I laughed.
So hard.
AfroMageman 1 year ago
damn
cocre8or 1 year ago
umm..ok so if u dont know who killd sumbodi..u kill an animal n beg for forgiveness??? doesnt god know who killed that person??
k1ll3r 1 year ago
Wow! A bibical law that has nothing to do with fucking or fashion!
RadarKat73080 1 year ago 2
LMFAO
N8RZZZ 1 year ago
dot, propaganda. is telling ppl you are a terrible person its ok god loves you and can make you well. this is the same as a wife beater telling her, " if i dint care bout you i wudnt beat you, i do it out of love"
adzug 1 year ago
I never heard of this story but I looked in the Bible and of course it was actually in there. Man god is really saddistic.
Angel0Martinez 1 year ago
Words clearly spoken from a being with infinite knowledge and perfect morality! ;)
Saved in our playlist `Bible: work of fiction´
Keep the videos coming, cheers!
ReligionInTheBin 1 year ago
I would piss on you but thus you're pissing on me. Care not do I caring is more then you will know because you are that shell that see only yourself and nothing more.
nodogyougay48 1 year ago
hahahahaha....i can do this hahahahahaha non-stop....don temp me...!!!
mykegoh 1 year ago
I'm glad I wasn't born in the time of moses.
slicingwater 1 year ago
43 , yes thats a positive attitude its just i wonder how to get thru. the truth can be right in front of someone but still cant see it. i really think its emotion that gets in the way. ppl get protective of ideals as part of themselves their ego. so they fight even when they kno they cud be wrong
adzug 1 year ago
i agree 43 its all whack. but wat will happn is relig ppl will get miffed and non relig will applaud. so how to get believers to see the light?
adzug 1 year ago
My approach is to just keep showing them stuff they didn't know was there. Do it enough times, and maybe something in their life will remind them that they are only getting a spoon-fed version.
With this video, maybe the next time they see The 10 Commandments in a courthouse they will remember this story.
If a religious person actually reads the Bible, he has to do one of two things: discard it or try to explain everything away. There are few moderate Christians familiar with the Bible.
43alley 1 year ago
@43alley It would be easy to make videos that cherry pick atheism&are far more damning about about atheisms history. I live next to North Korea&China where atheism had full control. Do you not find it a bit disturbing that in almost every case where atheism has become the official philosophy of a nation (from the French Revolution to the present), that exactly there the most extreme forms of intolerance, torture, massacres &such in the entire history of mankind have also been perpetrated?
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree
Don't confuse atheism as a religion. The countries you're talking about are communist and/or totalitarian. Their problems have a lot to do with civil rights, not religion.
Can you extend your argument to Iceland, Finland & Norway? Are you aware that they are atheistic countries and are statistically the most healthy, educated, least depressed, etc in the world?
You aren't cherry-picking, are you?
43alley 1 year ago 14
@43alley Atheism is about the most faith based religion in the world. Communism has nothing to do with the reason these people murdered masses of people. See below. No countries today are officially atheist besides communist ones. And even before that, the countries you mention do not have a majority of atheists. Also, Denmark, Norway (which are about 80% Christian) and other European nations, follow Biblical economics and basic economic rights for all much better than America.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Am I understanding you correct if I what I got from one of your post, is that you're saying that Denmark and other European countries are following biblical economics? Please correct me if I understood you wrong, but if that is what you meant, then that is really not the case at all. Our economic princibles have nothing to do with the bible... at least in Denmark.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
Why do I attribute faith to atheism? All rational&scientific concepts MUST have evidence. Atheism denies that gods exist. So,it must demonstrate evidence that life can come by random chance,without superior intelligence. Lacking belief in something doesnt make you right. Scientists at Pasteurs day lacked belief in bacteria. They were wrong. I can say, I lack belief in atheism. Does that make me right? No. All beliefs, positive or negative, that want to be rational must provide evidence.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree
LOL this is a fallacy fest, let's start:
"Why do I attribute faith to atheism? All rational&scientific concepts MUST have evidence"
Atheism is merely the rejection of a personal god, it's not a science, nor a religion. It doesnt require infinite knowledge of the natural universe (theism does:-) and only needs an argument why we dont accept the claims of religion (both laughable empirically and philosophically).
The rest of your comment is a rephrasing of your first "argument"
ReligionInTheBin 1 year ago 4
@dotoree
Part 2
"So,it must demonstrate evidence that life can come by random chance"
Strawman. Either educate yourself or be intellectually honest.
Furthermore, same non sequitur as previous comment (We dont have to proof the natural world exists, since we agree on that. You posit a magic unfalsifiable supernatural entity, so YOU have to proof that..simple as that. String theory posits 11 dimensions so THEY have to proof that too)
"Lacking belief.." Nope, it´s lacking an ADDITIONAL belief
ReligionInTheBin 1 year ago 3
You are wrong in your understanding of science,proof &evidence. You can't just say magic words, "I lack belief"&bingo you're right. Science has NEVER worked like that. What science ACTUALLY does is look at the weight of evidence. Theism says all life came from intelligent being. We have billions of confirmations that life always comes from life. Atheism claims that life can come from non-life(it MUST claim this since it says gods don't exist). We don't have even 1 case of this.
dotoree 1 year ago
@ReligionInTheBin LOL, I teach people to identiy fallacies at a university and avoid them like a plague. Atheism IS a worldview and it is ~100% faith based religion in the sense that it believes life can come without superior intelligence even though there is not one piece of testable evidence for that. If you say that your atheism is based only on faith...OK, you can believe whatever you want. Just don't call it science or rational as many people do.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree i think you really believe this stuff dot, but you dont see that things like saying jesus represents a scape goat isnt propaganda but real logical discourse. that giving ppl a choice of guessing if jesus isnt god or not can land them in hell. thats the choice right? noone comes to dad but thru me. gospels were written 70 sum yrs after the fact, to get everthing right wud be difficult at best.
adzug 1 year ago
@adzug A) Yes, I do really believe "this stuff" :)..but my ~20% faith is based on ~80% facts from science and history most of which are undeniable.
B) MANY things in history were written centuries after the fact, but we still trust them as true. Most Bible books were written by eyewitnesses.
C) There is no propaganda in Jesus dying for our sins.
D) God has given enormous evidence that He is real.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree dot thanks for input,my point is that today if a crime goes down they cant be positive bout what happened and every day longer it gets harder to get to the actual occurence.written 75 yrs after the actual happenings alot cudda been mistrued especially in a time without science and alotta superstition.and dot really all god wud hafta do is appear in the sky to all ppl and say hey its me. never does tho
adzug 1 year ago
@adzug Although human knowledge is imperfect and we can always be open to new information, yes,we can be quite reasonable certain about what causes things using control groups with only one difference and things like that.
The Bible was NOT written 75 years after the events. Some of our manuscripts may have come from that time, true. But,that has no bearing on when the original author actually wrote. Most manuscripts of history are FAR MORE separated from the original authors than the Bible is.
dotoree 1 year ago
@adzug As to God appearing in the sky, no person can see God and live the Bible says and so it's in mercy that God does not do that. But, God did incredible miracles for people and they still found ways to doubt, complain and disbelieve because people have a natural tendency to rebellion. But, God veiled his glory and came to earth in the person of Jesus as well. Did miracles that that witnesses. People still rejected that. People who are biased will find a way to reject anything.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree dot we disagree. you teach ppl to see falacies, its very convieient that god cant appear to us for we die. that he show us miracles and still ppl wont believe. 1 god doesnt make its presence clear, 2 this is evidence by so many ppl having such differant veiws of god. weve made god into our image, the muslims insist jews n xtians have it wrong. hindus tell you of many gods. these arent minor details. ppl arent finding ways to reject, the proofs not clear.
adzug 1 year ago
@adzug A) With due respect, I teach people to identify fallacies at the university level and I avoid them like the dishonest plague that they are. I can't even begin to count the innumerable fallacies that atheists use against Christianity. Some people have believed miracles and prophecies and science truth from the Bible. But, some people prefer to follow pride and selfishness and ignorance instead of the Bible, science and truth.
dotoree 1 year ago
@adzug Many people having different ideas of God is no different from many scientists having different hypothesese about different aspects of science. It just means that people in religion and science sometimes follow traditions, dogma, and wrong hypotheses instead of following testable facts and where the evidence leads. Also, our knowledge is imperfect, so that is a factor at first too.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree its very differant dot. science agrees on gravity evolution plate tectonics, there may be discrpencies in how things happened but not what. relig has many diff ideas that quite contradict each other, no one comes to dad but thru me, theres no god but allah and MOHAMMED is his messanger. thats huge right there
adzug 1 year ago
@adzug Yes, there are many views in religion, just as there are different views on major things in science, string theory for example is a MAJOR new theory that many don't agree on. But, we should expect this and the Bible explicitly predicts that there will be many massive deceptions as we get closer to the end of the world because Satan knows his time is short.
dotoree 1 year ago
@adzug Evolution has such an incredible lack of evidence supporting it that it's best proponents keep on trying to figure out new versions such as punctuated equilibrium to explain why the fossil record is soooo bereft of what should be there if evolution were true. For example, if evolution were true, there should be maybe 100 times more failed partially functional organs and body structures in life forms than there are fully functional ones. We just don't see this in the fossil record.
dotoree 1 year ago
@adzug And again, many creation scientists LONG before Darwin wrote and published ideas on natural selection in line with Genesis. ALL speciation up to the family level falls completely within creation science...ALL cases we know of so far fall within creation science. NONE fall within Darwinian speculations that are different from creation science. NONE. But, evolutionists are not honest enough to tell you this, at least the establishment isn't.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree theres no such thing as evolutionists but... theres no conspiracy its just a search for objective truth, thats why we have pcs radio tv medicine and industry.all this without having to base science on a creator.if there is 1 it doesnt even matter.science is about the real natural world, gods about super nature, outside of this world.and theres tons of junk dna. vestigal body parts and clear transformation tween species.
adzug 1 year ago
@adzug @adzug Yes, science is about repeatable tests and that's exactly why it's a very very poor tool to use in proving existence, events in history, who invented something and a host of other things. MUCH in human experience and esp. in history is far beyond science's ability to test because history is not a repeatable thing. That's why we use the scientific method which is every bit as valid as the scientific method.
dotoree 1 year ago
@adzug Radio, TV, medicine, industry and even computers have no need for evolution whatsoever to progress. Most made gigantic progress long before evolution was taught. God is not about super nature. He's about EVERYTHING that exists. There is no junk DNA or vestigial parts. That's been debunked LONG ago. Change between species is 100% within creation science and does NOTHING to help evolution's claims.
dotoree 1 year ago
@adzug Vestigial parts and junk DNA have been alleged about 100s of things. But, we now know the functions and vital importance of nearly ALL of the 180 organs originally alleged to be vestigial by Robert Wiedersheim & many more. Please google and read:
A) "Vestigial arguments: remnants of evolution"
B) Junk DNA—past, present, and future part 1" (and read part 2 as well)
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Saying something is vestigial or junk basically means that at present that person is ignorant of its function.
dotoree 1 year ago
@adzug God is being merciful by not appearing to you as he really is. You'd die if He did. That's NOT convenience, it's mercy towards you. But also, God expects us to use a little faith based on a LOT of evidence. ALL relationships need trust. So does the one with God. The evidences are VERY clear if you are fair and objective and don't use logical fallacies.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree hes the omnicient omnipotent god, he cud appear or make something equivelent appear. he cud easily make himself known as undeniable.but he doesnt.and i was a believer at a time but saw the light.theres a reason theres no creationist atheists. creationism/id is turned down time n agin cuz its not science based. theres a presumption of god. theres no fallacy here.
adzug 1 year ago
@adzug God HAS demonstrated his existance in a host of ways ranging from science to very specific prophecies covering millenia to appearing veiled through his son and others in ways that are VERY undeniable...but God gave people free choice to follow delusions and double standards if they choose to. The reason there are no creationist atheists is because atheism denies gods even exist...duh.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree dot you cant just say that when ive pointed out that gods existence isnt clear by the vast disagree,ents about wat it is and wat it wants and thinks.science isnt about an agenda to disprove god its about finding unbias truth thats quantitative.repeatable tests and evidence.the reason god doesnt show up in science isnt cuz it doesnt exist its that theres no proof or need for god. you cant just fill in the gaps with it.
adzug 1 year ago
@adzug Yes, I can say that there is vast proof for God because there most certainly is. The problem is that atheist detest using consistent standards. There is FAR more evidence for God than there is for NUMEROUS people in our history textbooks and in many other ways. You don't demand that Abraham Lincoln appear before you to prove that he exists. Stop using double standards.
dotoree 1 year ago
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@dotoree There is FAR more evidence for God than there is for NUMEROUS people in our history textbooks and in many other ways. You don't demand that Abraham Lincoln appear before you to prove that he exists. Stop using double standards
LMAO You are proof that religion casues brain damage. Can u point to jesus peronal portrait, legal writings, personal record, journal? Oh an lets not forget the vast missing early childhood. Explain how we have as much evidence for jesus as Lincoln
freeofjesus 1 year ago
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@dotoree "Yes, I can say that there is vast proof for God because there most certainly is."
Can you please show me this vast proof? I'd really like to see it, especially as since throughout the history of mankind no-one has been able to assert such a thing successfully. It seems highly implausible that such a revelation could be discovered by a youtube commenter rather than a theologian or minister, but I'm happy to give you a chance :)
Dallo10 1 year ago
@Dallo10 I didn't discover it. Scientists, professors, pastors and just regular hard working people in different fields of endeavor have uncovered massive amounts of evidence for centuries using both the scientific and historical method. The problem is that what counts as evidence in normal areas, is suddenly trashed whenever it's used to support a religious conclusion. This is a double standard, apriori bias and grossly unjust and NOT following the evidence where it leads.
dotoree 1 year ago
@Dallo10 I am by the way, a professor in a university (have taught at both secular and Christian universities) and a volunteer pastor. But, I'd like first to know what you would consider evidence...remembering what counts as evidence for other historical events, and people, etc. and what counts for evidence,etc. I enjoy discovery channel sometimes..and the evidence for many aspects of God is FAR greater than many things that professors there believe are true.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree I guess I'd start by asking this Deity to show Himself to me. If He is really all-knowing, then He knows exactly what is required to convince me of His existence, if He is all-powerful then He has the means to do so, and if He is all-loving and wants us all to love Him, then He has a motive to do this, yet He doesn't. There is a contradiction here, so either one of these things we are taught about Him is wrong, or He isn't logical, or more likely, He does not exist, At least in my eyes.
Dallo10 1 year ago
@Dallo10 Yes, there are all sorts of people here on Youtube. It's good to check and compare evidence, esp. the WEIGHT of evidence. I also sometimes wish God would show himself to me visibly :)...but no human can endure that. God's brilliance&purity would kill us. God did appear in veiled form, in Jesus and did miracles. God has given MUCH evidence, but God values some faith-trust, just like all human relationships do. Watch the Cosmic Conflict video I sent to you.
dotoree 1 year ago
@Dallo10 Asking God to prove His own existence is like asking an artist to show his brushstrokes. No, it would ruin the whole thing. If you ask me, there's too much beauty in the Universe for it all to be an accident.
scharb 1 year ago
@scharb So instead of showing himself and ending the mystery and bring order and harmony he'd rather leave mankind to slaughter each other for centuries in the name of him or any 'wrong' God or any other interpretation of a book, or a book based on the book about the story of a particular family through history?
viridismonasteriense 1 year ago 3
@scharb And there is nothing more beautiful and fulfilling than trying to understand the beauty of the universe, rather than putting it all down to superstition and unknowables.
triskaidekaphobe13 1 year ago
@dotoree And I didn't mean to sound insulting about your credentials, it's just that on youtube for all I know you could have been some 10-year old trolling here. :)
Dallo10 1 year ago
@adzug @adzug The God of the Gaps argument is an ignorant fallacy of atheists. Here's why. We have cars running around us that give every appearance of being designed for certain function. Science can't prove hardly anything about who designed them, who brought the materials or who built them. Also, explaining how a car works does NOT EVER mean you have no need for a designer. That's extremely ludicrous. Same for nature.
dotoree 1 year ago
@adzug Yes, there most certainly are evolutionists and some call themselves that too. There also is a grossly unjust conspiracy to remove creation science from education. It was NEVER done by looking at science. It was done by looking at whether creationism had any religious content and then banning it's science due to that...That's similar to banning evolution solely because it came from Darwin.
dotoree 1 year ago
@adzug NO, you have been VERY duped. Creationism/ID is turned down SOLELY on the basis that it has religious connectinos. IT has billions of confirmable tests from both the scientific and the historical method. The ONLY reason it is excluded is because it has religious connections. The same principle applied fairly would exclude anything connected to Darwin solely because he originated it regardless of the science.
dotoree 1 year ago
@adzug Don't be ignorant about science please. ALL scientists have presuppositions and preferences and biases...you aren't human if you don't have those. And evolutionists and atheists presuppose evolution is true and exclude all evidence to the contrary FAR FAR more than Christians EVER do. NO, science does NOT agree on evolution or even on plate tectonics and don't you dare conflate gravity with evolution. That's blatantly deceitful.
dotoree 1 year ago
@ReligionInTheBin Straw man: Religion doesn't require infinite knowledge of the natural universe. GIGANTIC straw man, the claims of religion are laughable. FACT is the Bible has billions of confirmations of it's claims in science and history that are crucial for life and were made millenia ahead of the best scientists. If you don't know anything about what you criticize, you better not expose your ignorance, injustice and incompetence.
dotoree 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRHit guarantees all a basic level of opportunity&quality of life.
2)Denmark society seems to be a post-consumer society with people more interested in relationships than in becoming rich. This is very much in line with biblical philosophy. While money is important,those who chase money as a #1 goal usually lose out in happiness.
There are several other aspects too. Some of these ideas come from studies by different scientists shortly summarized at QuestDOTbluezonesDOTcom
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Where did you get the information that Denmark seems like a post-consumer society? Cause it doesn't sound very like Denmark. The general impression in Denmark is that we're getting more and more materialistic, like every other western country. Oh yeah, if you didn't know already, I'm from Denmark.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH Yes, I surmised that you're from Denmark :). But, there have been MANY researchers studying Denmark for decades since it has scored so high on happiness levels. There is much research I have comparing the values of people in different societies...and the bluezones video I referred to is just a VERY short version of that. The average is that Denmark is far less materialistic than places like USA or Korea (but of course there are always exceptions to statistics and averages).
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree We might be less materialstic than the US or Korea, again that's not what I have a beef for, it is that you contribute that, it seems to me at least, to us being a majority of Christians and that is definitely not why we are less materialistic. And if religion was at all a factor in how materialistic a country is, then the US would be less materialistic than Denmark, since the US is far more religious than us. Wouldn't you agree?
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH By the way, America is nowhere close to my ideal in so many ways. They used to be best and wonderful...but for a host of reasons, some of them moral and religious in my opinion, but others as well, they have lost their edge and leadership in quite a few areas, esp. to nations such as Korea, Denmark, Finland, China, etc. From my studies I think a BIG reason is connected to those nations ironically following biblical values better than the US.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Okay what I'm getting from you is that you believe some values from the bible align with values from e.g. Denmark. I can agree with that. But the question is, did we adopt those values because we flipped open the bible or did we get those values because there was a slow trend developing in various european countries that favored socialistic principles in the late 1800 and throughout the 1900?
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@dotoree We might be a socialistic country, but it is nowhere near the economic principles you describe in the bible. The gap between rich and poor in this country is increasing at a steady rate and has been for many years. So I feel that you saying our economics is at all similar to the bibles, which sounds to me like communism, is because you don't know any better. I'm sorry, but it is just not true at all.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
...A) socialism recognizes that everyone has the basic human right to free health care, free education &certain basics like that.
B) It unfortunately though allows some people to get out of working and still be supported by other people's hard work...something that makes it hard to sustain long term.
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A is FAR closer to biblical economics than capitalism has ever been. B conflicts with biblical economics since it enables laziness.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Heh heh, I lol'ed a bit at that laziness remark. At least in the case of Denmark... did you know that our unemployment percentage was lower than even the US before the financial meltdown.... so much for laziness... at least for us. =P
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH LOL on that laziness remark. That's an interesting point you make and one that I've been thinking about recently. My thinking at present is that in societies where money is #1, people would probably take advantage of the system and try to do as little work as possible for the easiest life. But, some cultures put relationships, community, etc. much higher than wealth, so that would reduce the abuse of the system. What do you think?
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree In the case of Denmark I cannot concur with you on that argument. Our unemployment percentage has only been decreasing because of our right-wing government, who has been in power for the last 8 or so years. They ONLY care about money. For instance they give tax-cuts to the wealthiest, while those with less get almost nothing. They could have spend that money on sociaty as a whole, but they chose tax-cuts. cont.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@dotoree cont. Our previous government was left-wing and our unemployment percentage was much higher then. One example of their policy was that they gave alot more in welfare, so the incentive to work was much lower. So the reason we have low unemployment, at least before the financial meltdown was our right-wing government, whose main priority is being among the richest countries in the world. They would rather spend money on tax-cuts than repairing schools.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@dotoree So your premise that perhaps we have low unemployment is because we put relationships and community ahead of wealth does not apply to our current policies. And I can tell you, we have more than enough abuse of the system here. Freeloaders are abundant here, especially big corporations who pay not even a dime in taxes because of loopholes in our laws. We are not in any way perfect, but at least we're not as bad as the US imo.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH
A) The Bible never commands anyone to die for working on Sunday.
B) There is no rule telling people to kill heathens (there was a very limited case of judging a few nations that rejected God for centuries, but that never was a general rule).
C) There are certain strict rules in the OT, but if you look at them in depth, all were designed to enhance life and save the most lives possible both here on earth and for eternity.
dotoree 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH By the way,America is nowhere close to my ideal in so many ways. They used to be best in many areas, but for a host of reasons, some of them moral&religious in my opinion, they have lost their edge&leadership in quite a few areas, esp. to nations such as Korea, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, China, etc. From my studies I think a BIG reason is connected to those nations ironically following biblical values better than the US even though they may not be as overtly religious.
dotoree 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH Claiming to be religious but not following God's principles is something Jesus called hypocrisy and vain religion. It doesn't matter how much people profess to be religious or non-religious, the important thing to look at is whether they are following the principles God wrote about in the Bible and what those effects are. Google-aish seminar "perfect world" for another very interesting seminar on the contributions of the Bible to modern values.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Then most of the danish Christians are hypocrits. Doesn't that just make the case, that our happiness is not because of biblical values, but perhaps instead of a socialistic trend in europe that just happens to align with some biblical values. Don't forget, we don't stone people for working on a sunday and we don't kill heathens. Our values only align with the good stuff in the bible.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH The research is comparing Denmark to places like USA. It's not saying Danes don't have any material goods,etc. Having a cell phone doesn't make you a materialist. Relative to the USA &similar countries, Denmark puts a far higher value on community than on getting rich (although it could be changing as many countries are). The simple premise is that when nations guarantee everyone the basics of life and equal opportunity, as the Bible instructed 3k years ago, all are happier.
dotoree 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH Most people dont understand Biblical economic principles enough to compare(it has NOTHING to do with communism).The Bible guaranteed that all people have an equitable amount of natural resources that they could work to supply their basic needs or become rich if they worked hard. Sharing natural resources is an economic system that great thinkers from ALL spectrums say is the only just economic system AND it produces FAR more economic growth than either socialism or capitalism do.
dotoree 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH I didn't say Denmark's economic system is identical to the Bible's economic theory, but it is a fact that it is FAR closer to it than Capitalism. God's system guarantees some basic opportunity at a good life but also protects the free market system which gives incentives to work hard. It avoids the abuses-excesses of both capitalism, communism and socialism.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Well I didn't claim that you said socialism and biblical economic principles were identical. I concur that socialism is far closer to biblical economics than capitalism... at least the version the US operates with, cause Denmark is also a capitalistic country, just not as extreme as the US. continued...
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@dotoree continued... The gap between rich and poor in the US is atrocious, our gap seems tiny compared to that. It's just that our success and happiness have nothing to do with a religion, so you shouldn't imply that it is.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH The closer we get to God's principles, the happier people are for a host of reasons. Economic reasons are just one example. Health reasons are another (since it's quite difficult to be happy when you're dying of cancer, etc. or frequently sick). Genuine religion has a DIRECT correlation with health, happiness, success and other things for a host of reasons that are thoroughly documented and almost impossible to dispute. The research and documentation is overwhelming.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree So your two points on how the danish society is compatible with Christian principles are simply not accurate. I wouldn't mind hearing which other Christian principles you believe align with Denmark, cause they might be wrong too and I feel you should know this, cause it's not right that you use false claims in your arguments imo.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH With due respect, I teach in a university and I have 100,000 files gathered from all sorts of sources, Christian and secular. I'm not perfect or all-knowing, but I do not make claims unless there are hard facts to support them. It's possible to show me wrong, but you'll have to work AWFULLY hard to provide hard data proving that since I've gathered SOOO much data to support what I say already.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Well your first claim that socialism is more alike the biblical economic principles than capitalism, is a no-brainer. I don't disagree on that. My beef is with how you seem to imply that we have socialism because we are 85% Christian and have Christian beliefs. That's all.... cause that is NOT why we have socialism. We are not a very religious country, so that's why I think you shouldn't contribute Christian beliefs to our happiness.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH The history of most of western civilization is Christian&whether people are actively religious now or not,still many of the values of Christianity are things that are still followed due to the Bible's influence&are significant factors in happiness. As far as Denmark being post-consumerist, google-Denmark bluezones Then, watch the 6 minute video on Denmark (things could be changing tho). Btw, thanks for the civil conversation. Many don't seem to know how to do that here unfortunately.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree I watched the video, heh it's always nice to have your country be praised. But to your post-consumerist point. I cannot recognise it. I mean we might be less post-con. than other countries like the US, but in Denmark everybody has a cellphone, most people have a car, nearly everybody has a computer and a tv and a gaming console, we spend more and more money on christmas every year. Every I go I hear we're getting more materialistic... that is the truth.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@dotoree Your second point that we are a post-consumer country just doesn't ring a bell with me and what I hear in our news. What I've been hearing in news and programs on TV for many years is that we're getting less and less religious and more materialistic. That's why I can't subscribe to that point of yours. If you have hard evidence of that claim and I can view it online, please send me a link if you would.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@dotoree Even if you teach in a university, as you say yourself, that doesn' mean you're all-knowing. You have some claims about Denmark where you, it seems to me, contribute Christian beliefs to our happiness and general awesomeness =).... and as a dane living in this said country I am telling you that I cannot recognise your claims... at least in the way that it is because we're Christian. part 1
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@dotoree Your claims might be correct, I haven't seen the research you're referring to, but as soon as you imply that it is because of Christian beliefs, then I have to object, cause that is not the reality that I'm experiencing as a dane. And your request of hard evidence is something I don't have readily at hand, I would have to find it first. What I definitely can bring to the table, is my general impression of my country tha I get from various news outlets.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
biblical principles in daily&the results of that and also the effects of Christianity from the past. It's clear that being an active&genuine Christian following Gods principles has significant benefits to health, relationships, economics, etc. But, in the case of both science and the Bible, even if people aren't religious or science minded, they receive benefits from both because of the influence of the past, philosophy that has become common due to them and others who do follow them.
dotoree 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH Here's an example. Somebody living in modern culture could reject science and treat it as something useless and stupid (and there are a few who do). Even if they don't respect science and ignore it and reject it, still many benefits that they experience would be due to the contributions of science to our modern life. Similarly, whether people are actively religious or not really doesn't matter to the point I'm making. What's important is whether they are following...
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree I don't feel that analogy can be used. Science has irrefutable results, as for instance without it, we wouldn't be able to debate over the internet. Denying scientific achievements is blatantly stupid imo. But biblical values cannot be compared to science like that and I'll tell you why, at least in the case of similar values between danish society and the bible. cont.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH The Bible has billions of confirmations of MANY 100% testable theories. Denying scientific achievements is very stupid. So is denying the scientific knowledge in the Bible that was 3,000 years ahead of it's time and was crucial to saving millions of lives. The Bible has been far more valuable to improving human life than science has in science, medicine, hygiene, quarantine, the blood cycle and in a variety of other ways.
dotoree 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH The science&Bible correlation I stated is true. Health for example.
--The Bible said that life is in the blood. Anyone who followed this principle & avoided the medical practice of bleeding patients,regardless of whether they believed in God,would benefit.
--The Bible said that the veggie diet is ideal&identified which meats were clean or unclean(unhealthy) if you insisted on eating meat. People who follow the Bible health ideals are far healthier even if they don't believe in God.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Life is in the blood... you see that as a scientific fact? But it is so vague. And do you really think that before the bible, people didn't know that to be healthy you should also eat veggies? I eat veggies and low fat meat, I avoid unhealthy foods as much as I can... because that is healthy, not because it says so in the bible. If the billions of scientific confirmations are like those you listed, then I am not very impressed.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH You have more experience in living in Denmark than I do for sure, but I NEVER said that my ideas were based on my experience. They are based on hundreds of thousands of studies covering over 100 countries. This is not a study Kenny. It's a meta study. You are talking what you see on the news and what you experience, neither of which are anywhere close to as accurate as a meta study.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree With the meta study you're referring to the post consumer thing, right? But I have already said that I concur that we danes very likely are less materialistic than e.g. the US. But that doesn't we are like in the bible... we still want our hightech gadgets and all the other luxury items we're accustomed to. And you can't budge me on the religious matter. I'm positive that Christianity is not the reason why we have a socialistic society. =)
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH Do you think people in the Bible didn't like material things? That is SOOO wrong :). I can't budge you on the religious matter? Rational people are supposed to follow the evidence wherever it leads. To say you can't be budged is an apriori fallacy. My point is that when people follow the Bible's principles closer, for whatever reason (even if they don't know about the Bible), they are happier, healthier, etc.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree I said you can't budge me (at least with your current arguments), not that I couldn't be budged at all. I am more than willing to revise my beliefs if new evidence comes up. But you haven't shown any evidence that we were influenced by the bible when we became socialistic. Basicly you're saying that because the bible and our society share SOME similarities in our values, then we must have been influenced by the bible cause it's very old. I'm sorry that's not evidence to me.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH I NEVER claimed that people read the Bible and decided to becom socialistic. NEVER. Please stop misrepresenting what I have said. I DID say that the closer people come to living God's principles the happier they will be and socialism, esp. Denmark's style, is a LOT closer to the Bible than capitalism in several crucial ways. And FOR SURE the Bible has had an influence on Denmark. That's indisputable. Many values that modern people have are ONLY because of Christian history.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree But what you did say was: "Statistically speaking, the Danes are the happiest people in the world and they are ~80% Christian AND give basic economic rights to all."
You're implying we're because we're Christian and that's not the case.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH The Bible pioneered a number of VERY crucial concepts in science, economics, health and other areas. ANY TIME people follow these concepts and experience the benefits, they show that the Bible was correct and wisest from the start. In most cases, no one would have thought of these ideas without the Bible because it was the Bible that first made the concepts of human rights and economic rights and civil rights for all crucial values.
dotoree 1 year ago
To give you an idea of how different the past was, doctors in the 1800s were recommending bleeding & smoking as a medicine for lung&respiratory problems. Until the 1800s, more soldiers died in war from unsanitary conditions than died from bullets. These 3&more were MASSIVE ideological differences. Do you want future people to consider the work of scientists these days as NOTHING? Then DO NOT be so unjust&belittle the Bibles science which saved the lives of millions.
dotoree 1 year ago
2) Spontaneous generation was truth for the smartest scientists for millennia. The Bible disagreed&said life ONLY comes from other life. Pasteur was ridiculed, but did many tedious experiments that proved the Bible right& so this biblical idea with billions of confirmations is now known as biogenesis.
3) NOBODY knew that the veggie diet was best for health until recent times. Dont impose your knowledge on ancients. They did NOT have it. Btw,eating lowfat meat means you are not vegetarian.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Just because science hasn't proved that life can come from non-life yet, that doesn't mean it won't in the future. Science is and has always been a work-in-progress, it is unreasonable and quite frankly silly to expect science to have all the answers RIGHT NOW.
When I said veggies, that was short for vegetables. I'm not a vegetarian and I never will be... ever. Need my meat, heh heh. :P
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH Just because science hasn't proved that life can come from non-life yet, that doesn't mean it won't in the future.
- True, but that's a faith statement, wishful thinking, etc. NOT something to base any rational view on. Respectfully you are using the term vague incorrectly. If I said that life was somewhere in the universe, somewhere in the body, THAT would be vague. Giving a specific location cannot be vague in any sense of the term.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree It's not a faith statement, cause I'm not saying science WILL prove life can come from non-life. I'm saying it hasn't yet, as in I'm not ruling out that it could prove it, but I am also not saying that it definitely will prove it. I don't know if science will ever prove it. The origin of life happened a very long time ago and I don't mind if we never find the exact cause. But what I will not say is "god did it", that's like giving up imo. UNLESS someone can convince me otherwise.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH If you don't have evidence, you're using ONLY 100% faith, pure and simple and you can't claim to be following a rational belief if you don't have evidence. You don't mind if we NEVER find out what happened? You will ignore billions of confirmations plus 1000s of historical evidences and numerous other testimonies and choose to follow IGNORANCE instead. Following the facts where they lead is NOT giving up. It's being a genuine rational and scientific thinker.
dotoree 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH Don't confuse modern understanding with ancient understanding. MUCH that you learn about science came directly from Christian culture&scientists &was completely UNKNOWN to other ancient cultures &was not common sense for ANY OF THEM.
1) The BEST scientists and doctors in the world for 2,000 years bled sick people because they thought blood was harmful (due to Greek "science"). The Bible's statement was a crucial life and death difference from that...
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree I guess you're referring to "life is in the blood" again. As I said before, that is too vague for me to be impressed by it. Since you say there are billions of confirmed scientific information in the bible, would you mind giving me some other examples besides the "life is in the blood" one?
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH No, you do not NEED your meat. You may LIKE it :), but you do not have any need for it. No one does. Re: billions of confirmations, I sent you a brief mail with 20 different cases of Bible scientific knowledge much of which was millenia ahead of it's time AND very specific and some that is extremely crucial for life, or fundamental paradigm shifts. Biogenesis and Creationist natural selection are 2 that have billions of confirmations in addition to life is in the blood.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree When I say I need my meat, especially with a smily after, I'm saying I don't want to be without it. I am fully aware that meat is not a necessity. ;)
And I can tell you before even responding to that mammoth PM that I don't consider any of them to be specific. Your PM is basicly you or others interpreting a vague passage in the bible.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH With due respect, I'm a professor teaching language at the university level and you are completely misusing the terms vague and specific. Something vague is like this:
"I'll meet somebody, somewhere at some point in the future." THAT'S VAGUE and not specific. But, when God says that life ONLY comes from other life and lists specific characteristics of healthy and unhealthy meats and so much more, call that vague is nothing but the most blatant dishonesty.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree It's vague to me in the sense that it's not very specific. The bible doesn't say why some meats are unhealthy or healthy, it doesn't specify what "life is in the blood" means. All those things are open to interpretation and none of it leads me to believe that a god is responsible for saying it.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH The Bible does NOT need to say why some meats are unhealthy or healthy to be specific. Again you are GRAVELY misusing vocabulary. And if it did, it would have been ridiculed for millenia. The Bible says LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD. There is NOT ONE IOTA of a need to specify further. No blood. No life. NONE OF THESE ARE INTERPRETATION OR VAGUE. THIS IS MY FIELD OF TEACHING IN UNIVERSITY KENNY.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree You're saying the word of god would have been ridiculed, if for instance god had included a warning for bacteria in the bible and other specific guidelines? Perhaps among non-christian, but faithful Christians would have followed these outlines and would have benefited so much more and in the process would have proved them right aswell towards the non-believers, since they as a group would be visibly more healthy than others.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH If God put those ideas about bacteria in the Bible, non-Christians would have pointed that out as "unscientific"..and sadly many Christians would have followed them instead of God as has happened throughout history (ex: bleeding patients). God put instructions in the Bible that would save lives, but didn't give the details for this reason above AND because he gave us brains to use to enjoy discovery.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree I see and how do you know that? Do you have a direct hotline to god? This is just your opinion and it sounds like an excuse to me.
And you say god put instructions in the bibe, but didn't give the details.... well that is exactly why I can't believe in a god. Those instruction were written by men and now modern day Christians are interpreting those instructions to mean more than they did.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH God DID tell people why he gave them these rules though. He told them in several places that they to give them good health and long life and prosperity and to display their wisdom to the nations and things like that and it's no coincidence that the Israelis are some of the wealthiest people on the planet as well as having won far more nobel prizes than is normal for their population size.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Far more nobel prizes... that's an exaggeration and per capita they are the 28. richest country... 23 places below Denmark. And if the US didn't shower them with money like they do, they would be lower.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH See the private message I sent you. Israelis have won ~22% of all Nobel prizes. They are in the top 10-12 richest countries, that's ~the top 5-7%. And American money goes for military and govt. things. It has nothing to do with how much people earn.
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dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree The 22% I would need proof for. I looked at wikipedia and it says Israel has won 9 nobel prizes. And what list of richest contries are you using? The one I looked at for 2009, they were around 28. And that is per capita. And if Israel didn't get money for the military and government, then they'd have to use that money themselves.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH It is completely BOGUS that the Bible's science was written by men. NOBODY in the ancient world, not even the best scientists of the best nations knew this and you think desert tribesmen without even a nation or schools could get the science of bacteria, biogenesis, blood and life, economics and 100s of other things ALWAYS right??? Be REASONABLE sir.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree That's just your interpretation of what's in the bible.
MrKennyKRH 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH That's just your interpretation of what's in the bible.
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Please do NOT misuse vocabulary. Interpretation is NOT just some opinion. It mostly refers to translating ideas from one language to another and there is NOTHING relative about that. I test my students on interpretation quite a bit. It is NOT relative I assure you. There is black and white right and wrong.
dotoree 1 year ago
They challenge science to prove the existence of God. But must we really light a candle to see the sun?" Dr. Wernher von Braun, father of rocket science.
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correction on the 22%. I sent you the list privately. But, heres a summary from aboutDOTcom Of the 750 Nobel Prizes awarded worldwide between 1901 and 2007, at least 162 were awarded to Jews. While Jews are approximately 0.25% of the world's population, Jews make up approximately 22% of all Nobel Prize laureates worldwide.
dotoree 1 year ago
@MrKennyKRH Believing in a god is not rational.
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Yes it most certainly is&again you're using apriori reasoning instead of following the evidence. Many of the greatest scientists in history AND the present consider it completely rational. Here's just one of 1000s. "...as I became exposed to the law&order of the universe, I was literally humbled by its unerring perfection. I became convinced that there must be a divine intent behind it all... My experiences with science led me to God
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Science doesn't lead to superstition, it dispels superstition. You became religious long before you were ever introduced to science and that tells me it was probably your parents. Your faith makes you acceptable to them but, it has also leaves you scientifically illiterate and emotionally incapable of acknowledging the obvious truth- your faith is false.
VerumAdNauseam 1 year ago
@VerumAdNauseam Science has sometimes dispelled superstition and sometimes invented it. Many became atheists LONG before they ever learned about religion. Does that mean it was their parents?
Don't start a discussion with an apriori fallacy (that I or Christians are scientifically illiterate, your faith is false). Apriori reasoning like that says a LOT more about your lack of ability to use ojective logic and science than anything else.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Thanks for proving my point- that you're scientifically illiterate. Science doesn't do anything, scientists do. Science is just a method of discovering the truth without making it up. Scientists don't invent, they explore. They discover the truth of reality through research and peer review. Superstition is invented by selfish, uneducated thugs who don't understand the world they live in but want to control people by taking advantage of their gullibility or desperation.
VerumAdNauseam 1 year ago
@VerumAdNauseam Except, "science" is commonly referred to as the collective discipline and those within the study, scientists have used it in the exact way that dotoree has.
However, even scientists can be wrong - and, have been wrong. Scientists are humans too - and, likewise, have emotions, and desires. Some even have presuppositions, biases which effect their research; Others have falsified information.
At least one atheistic scientist has (falsely) claimed that "science is omnipotent."
Zipster0007 1 year ago
@Zipster0007 Very true zipster. Dr. Thomas Kuhn, professor at 4 Ivy league universities wrote a seminal work on this topic called, "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" and del Ratzsch wrote another one called "The Philosophy of Science giving MANY evidences and examples of what you have said here and I was hinting at but, so busy that I didn't have time to respond.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree If God appeared in the sky, people would still not believe. It would be called a hoax, it would be dismissed as some elaborate trick played by conservatives.
Or, if people would believe, they would be utterly terrified.
However, why does he need to appear in the sky? Why is the account of Him appearing on Earth, in the form of a man, not as trustworthy as your idea of what God should do?
Zipster0007 1 year ago
@Zipster0007 I think you directed this at the wrong person :) since I'm a lifelong Christian, volunteer pastor, have been a professor in both secular and Christian universities in recent years and when I have free time, I try to cure atheists of the delusions and innumerable logical fallacies that they have.
dotoree 1 year ago
@dotoree Indeed I did. My apologies; that was to be a response to adzug.
Zipster0007 1 year ago
@VerumAdNauseam Come on, don't be so dense. "Science" is used by many on all sides to refer to scientists and their work. Yes, scientists DO invent. They invent hypotheses, including ones such as steady state and abiogenesis and spontaneous generation, all of which have failed as time has gone on and more evidence gathered, and the same will happen to evolution if objective science is not smothered by double standards and bias and propaganda.
dotoree 1 year ago
@VerumAdNauseam Until you have provided solid testable from science for your views, you are the one that is scientifically illiterate and is betraying the scientific method. Most atheists talk big about following the scientific method...but when asked to provide TESTABLE evidence for abiogenesis or any kind of materialistic process producing evidence they turn traitor to the scientific method and start exhibiting more faith in mysticism than any religion on the planet.
dotoree 1 year ago
@VerumAdNauseam Your faith is the thing that is false. Atheism is about the most faith based worldview on the planet. Christianity has billions of confirmations of many scientific claims it makes. Atheism has none and because it has none tries to claim that it just "lacks belief" and instead of pursuing evidence, it pursues ignorance and dismisses mountains of evidence that are far greater than the evidence for evolution AND many other things that we teach to students at all levels.
dotoree 1 year ago
@VerumAdNauseam You are making false assumptions right and left as do most atheists. So, if someone was born into evolution or atheism, they would also by your principles be incapable of acknowledging the obvious truth, that their faith is false :). My parents are NOT the reason I follow creation science. I look at the evidence that supports creation vs. atheism, and the weight of evidence is almost all on the creation side. So I prefer to follow evidence where it leads instead of propaganda.
dotoree 1 year ago