I find very interesting the use of his eyes, I do not think it is irelevant to the form, there must be an underlying principle that is expressed with his whole body! He has a kind of intention which is very rare to see martial artists today!
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Correct me if im wrong but the shaking of his arms would be from tensed muscles right? Because alot of tai chi guys and other martial artist practice with a tensed muscle when doing forms as a type of isometric exercise. I cant tell with the long sleeved shirt.
It is funny to me that when people see one form of a art or style, they assume that it is useless for martial purposes because it does not coincide with there understanding. With that logic, you would assume that someone is incapable from seeing them do push ups or sit ups just because it has no martial application. the weakness u perceive are your own.
Chinese lost a true understanding of fighting. All the best went to Taiwan and HK. What is left is self obsessed, insular and lacks practical utility.
I have heard that because song practitioners focus on the opening small circulation orbit, this is a manifestation. The shaking. Because they are a school of internal purists, I doubt that they would do such a thing, especially if TadzioG had to pull teeth to show this stuff. However there are those who may try to imitate the skill with the real foundation. True neigong skill is a challenge to discern from video footage. Im not sure animal movements would be in a wuxing set though.
Praises aside, why are the heng chuan sections done with open palms rather than fists?
What is the nature of the two fists drawing a circle from top and connecting at the lower belly? Is this some type of defensive maneuver? After the heng chuanz and at the turnaround of some lines, there is an almost open chested swinging motion. Is that a part of the wuxing fists, or is that a dragon form? Why are there branches within a branch of Hsing-I? ie. The Song Style
I think it isn't hengquan, it's bear-eagle, part of 12 animals. But he does it off to the side, which contains heng intent.
The two fists drawing a circle and fist is a standard technique in all xingyiquan, some call it bai he liang chi (white crane shows wings), same name as in taiji but different technique.
The open chested swinging you're talking about is just a bengquan turnaround, derived from dragon, a part of the 12 animals.
Via an understanding of kinetics, much like a numbered ball tapped by a cue ball in a game of billiards, it is the receiver of the force that shakes and dislodges, while the initial carrier of the force remains relatively still.. It would be quite embarrassing to take such a hit on camera. I am humbled by such a demonstration of gong lik (high level skill).
Many masters, such as Ma Chuanxu, will describe hsing-I gong as a crisp power. It has the ability to (figuratively) crack a solid structure through its center, much like the chasm of an earthquake, or high frequency sound rupturing an objects shape. Power like this is difficult to block or neutralize. The main option is to get out of its path of force, like bagua practitioners in xing yi vs baguazhang anecdotes.
I am curious as to how the lower hand in these forms resides in the solar plexus area rather than the lower belly. The lower arm must protect the heart I suppose. These shocking strikes to the chest area can induce a cardiac arrest, as the human shell can only endure so much focused impact before going into an emergency state of shock. Hence the hsing I attitude of attacking the opponents defense and ultimately the most vital areas, while protecting ones own.
The gong shaking in the extremities of this practitioner is difficult to duplicate without contracting opposing muscle groups. It requires much patience to cultivate both the dantien, the xing, and the yi. One must pass through the gate of tradition to cross hands with these practitioners. Combative purists such as the blacktaoist should be commended for keeping the fighting spirit of the nejiaquan alive and thriving
The Song Style of Zhongnan Shan Boxing specializes in neigong, aka dan tian training. This requires time invested in internal practice, which is then fused into the forms. To see the result is quite fortunate for the nejiaquan community. As for the lack of sparring shown, why reveal one man losing face in light of another practitioner of the same school, when relatively that same one who has been defeated can beat many of us spectators observing. Martial skill manifests in the form.
False greatness is unsociable and remote: conscious of its own frailty, it hides, or at least averts its face, and reveals itself only enough to create an illusion and not be recognized as the meanness that it really is. True greatness is free, kind, familiar and popular; it lets itself be touched and handled, it loses nothing by being seen at close quarters; the better one knows it, the more one admires it.
Forms training and combat training are two different things and have different purposes.
As for your XYQ in combat, I have no special interest in seeing it, lol... but it seems you are willing to show it anyway, so anytime you are in Shanxi you will be more than welcome to stop by and show us what you got.
I've seen your vids. I personally don't enjoy these forms competitions, where no "taste" of XYQ can be seen, but a lot of people seem to enjoy the show. Not for me though.
As for the forum, nothing there that I wanted to record.
I might be adding some videos this weekend. There is a big discussion forum for Song family members in the whole China and I might catch soething that you might find interesting. Can't say for sure. As for my own branch stuff, I'd really love to share more but isn't easy. You have no idea how hard was to get permission to put this video online. lol.
I have a question, why all I see posted is forms, in my opinion it just a display of dancing no real demonstration of true martial skill. I mean anybody can learn to perform a form well in a few months. I just find it funny people look at some footage of a chinese cat doing some hsing yi set and think they are great. Why not post some free fighting clips people doing so real contact training learning how to truly appy the art , or is that to secret..lol
My post is in no means a disrespect to the teacher demonstrating. Sure he may be very good, my point is a person peforming a form don't prove a thing about real skill. To truly know if a person is skilled in any art you have to cross hands, shit have to be felt real time in a free combat environment to truly know what the real deal is with a individuals. Looking at a form display don't prove a thing. I met many good damces that was not shit when it came time to throw down, show and prove.
The truth is that anyone can learn the movements of a form in a short period of time, but to be able to physically express the characteristics of the martial art you practice through the form takes a long time. Forms are not only movements per se, they are movements that must be executed according to different body methods and ways of issuing power.
Second, the reason why you mainly see forms is that, in my personal opinion, most people can't use what they train to actually fight. There are people that can, but it seems that most of them can't. In our specific case the reason is that Shanxi is one of the most traditional places in China, totally different from Beijing, and almost no one will agree to openly post videos of they training.
You might agree with this way of thinking or not but the fact is that it is like this in Shanxi. I have been trying to post 2 men training and fighting footage for years but unfortunately I still didn't get permission to do so.
I hate to give excuses for the fact that I can't post fighting videos as I understand that they would be a more evident display of martial skill and would definnetly be my first choice for posting, but anyone that spent time in China will understand what I am saying and will recognize my arguments as correct.
Shanxi is not Beijing and China is not the USA. Cultures are different and try to understand Chinese traditional culture from the point of view of western culture will not work.
I find very interesting the use of his eyes, I do not think it is irelevant to the form, there must be an underlying principle that is expressed with his whole body! He has a kind of intention which is very rare to see martial artists today!
zazenshin1 8 months ago
I am not familiar with shanxi style, but I notice that alot of his movement was based on shoulder strength, maybe he got it from piquan.
His limaoshangshu form is very good.
wckoek 1 year ago
Every time I view this video, my jaw just drops open. Truly wonderful by US standards! What happened to the music though? I quite liked it.
quaijohncain 1 year ago
I think. Very speed punch. When stoped must shake. Sorry for my english :D
drzemeczka 2 years ago
Hello please check universetechnique, universetechnique2, universetechnique3, greatsorcerer, greatsorcerer2, thaijellybean242. Thank you. Enjoy learn something new. View all my favorite. Thank me later. Be a part of what I know.Welcome to my life. You have been selected to view the opening movie trailer of the movie Touch of Fluid.Remember I was here today and time era.Where ever I go too. Many people will follow after. Thai
universetechnique 2 years ago
Correct me if im wrong but the shaking of his arms would be from tensed muscles right? Because alot of tai chi guys and other martial artist practice with a tensed muscle when doing forms as a type of isometric exercise. I cant tell with the long sleeved shirt.
7eyedviper 2 years ago
It is funny to me that when people see one form of a art or style, they assume that it is useless for martial purposes because it does not coincide with there understanding. With that logic, you would assume that someone is incapable from seeing them do push ups or sit ups just because it has no martial application. the weakness u perceive are your own.
Arigato
KingOkami 2 years ago 2
Chinese lost a true understanding of fighting. All the best went to Taiwan and HK. What is left is self obsessed, insular and lacks practical utility.
simonhaleyboy 3 years ago
You are wrong.
TadzioG 3 years ago 4
@simonhaleyboy I used to think this myself, that is until I got around a bit. I now find the thought quite laughable.
quaijohncain 1 year ago
This guy is one of the best in the world. Few people in the world have this type of power.
chiman1000 3 years ago
I have heard that because song practitioners focus on the opening small circulation orbit, this is a manifestation. The shaking. Because they are a school of internal purists, I doubt that they would do such a thing, especially if TadzioG had to pull teeth to show this stuff. However there are those who may try to imitate the skill with the real foundation. True neigong skill is a challenge to discern from video footage. Im not sure animal movements would be in a wuxing set though.
tangshihlin 3 years ago
The shaking is an interesting interpretation to see. But I'm not convinced about its martial utility. Anyway, it's a good demonstration of looseness.
It's aesthetically pleasing, but I hope the training of it was not primarily driven by performance motives.
l1hao 3 years ago
Praises aside, why are the heng chuan sections done with open palms rather than fists?
What is the nature of the two fists drawing a circle from top and connecting at the lower belly? Is this some type of defensive maneuver? After the heng chuanz and at the turnaround of some lines, there is an almost open chested swinging motion. Is that a part of the wuxing fists, or is that a dragon form? Why are there branches within a branch of Hsing-I? ie. The Song Style
tangshihlin 3 years ago
I think it isn't hengquan, it's bear-eagle, part of 12 animals. But he does it off to the side, which contains heng intent.
The two fists drawing a circle and fist is a standard technique in all xingyiquan, some call it bai he liang chi (white crane shows wings), same name as in taiji but different technique.
The open chested swinging you're talking about is just a bengquan turnaround, derived from dragon, a part of the 12 animals.
l1hao 3 years ago
Via an understanding of kinetics, much like a numbered ball tapped by a cue ball in a game of billiards, it is the receiver of the force that shakes and dislodges, while the initial carrier of the force remains relatively still.. It would be quite embarrassing to take such a hit on camera. I am humbled by such a demonstration of gong lik (high level skill).
tangshihlin 3 years ago
Many masters, such as Ma Chuanxu, will describe hsing-I gong as a crisp power. It has the ability to (figuratively) crack a solid structure through its center, much like the chasm of an earthquake, or high frequency sound rupturing an objects shape. Power like this is difficult to block or neutralize. The main option is to get out of its path of force, like bagua practitioners in xing yi vs baguazhang anecdotes.
tangshihlin 3 years ago
I am curious as to how the lower hand in these forms resides in the solar plexus area rather than the lower belly. The lower arm must protect the heart I suppose. These shocking strikes to the chest area can induce a cardiac arrest, as the human shell can only endure so much focused impact before going into an emergency state of shock. Hence the hsing I attitude of attacking the opponents defense and ultimately the most vital areas, while protecting ones own.
tangshihlin 3 years ago
The gong shaking in the extremities of this practitioner is difficult to duplicate without contracting opposing muscle groups. It requires much patience to cultivate both the dantien, the xing, and the yi. One must pass through the gate of tradition to cross hands with these practitioners. Combative purists such as the blacktaoist should be commended for keeping the fighting spirit of the nejiaquan alive and thriving
tangshihlin 3 years ago
The Song Style of Zhongnan Shan Boxing specializes in neigong, aka dan tian training. This requires time invested in internal practice, which is then fused into the forms. To see the result is quite fortunate for the nejiaquan community. As for the lack of sparring shown, why reveal one man losing face in light of another practitioner of the same school, when relatively that same one who has been defeated can beat many of us spectators observing. Martial skill manifests in the form.
tangshihlin 3 years ago
I think I will study xingyiquan after my wei jia quan studies
from Italy
markohu 3 years ago
Marvelous Shanxi XY.
DaiBoxer 3 years ago
Tadz- you still around? shoot me an email
shifudan 3 years ago
打的非常好
superyila 4 years ago
it is not true that everyone can learn a form in a short time.
all you have to do is take a quick trip around the tube to see this is not true.
bt if you want to throw down take a trip to iraq ,plenty of takers.
this man is beautiful to see,i have no doubt of his fighting ability.
tennytigers 4 years ago
Wow...the power generation is quite frightening. Thank you for sharing Tadzio.
oslowutan 4 years ago
The traditional saying goes: better to kill an art than let the unworthy have it.
But is it really good to do this? "Going public" may be anti-tradition.
But staying private may kill the tradition, or, at least stunt its development.
I think despite secrecy, there must be a greater answer, there must be a universal answer.
l1hao 4 years ago
Jean de La Bruyère once said
False greatness is unsociable and remote: conscious of its own frailty, it hides, or at least averts its face, and reveals itself only enough to create an illusion and not be recognized as the meanness that it really is. True greatness is free, kind, familiar and popular; it lets itself be touched and handled, it loses nothing by being seen at close quarters; the better one knows it, the more one admires it.
l1hao 4 years ago
(And I'm sure Chinese philosophers have uttered the same concepts)
l1hao 4 years ago
Hi !
I think the form is not used to train much your fighting skills such as : timing, angles, entering the guard...
But this form develops many other aspects, used in combat : balance, tendon's power, impact, rooting, flow, relaxation during combat...
If you want, I can show you my xing yi in combat, against anybody. PM me if interested (I live in France though)
UTproductions 4 years ago
Forms training and combat training are two different things and have different purposes.
As for your XYQ in combat, I have no special interest in seeing it, lol... but it seems you are willing to show it anyway, so anytime you are in Shanxi you will be more than welcome to stop by and show us what you got.
TadzioG 4 years ago
This is getting interesting.
I wonder what lies ahead for the future of xingyiquan.
l1hao 4 years ago
I've seen your vids. I personally don't enjoy these forms competitions, where no "taste" of XYQ can be seen, but a lot of people seem to enjoy the show. Not for me though.
As for the forum, nothing there that I wanted to record.
TadzioG 4 years ago
It's been a while since this was posted.
Everyday I check your videos to look for more evidence of Song practioners.
Could you spare some more vidoes?
Thanks. And I thank you for all those others who are fascinated.
l1hao 4 years ago
I might be adding some videos this weekend. There is a big discussion forum for Song family members in the whole China and I might catch soething that you might find interesting. Can't say for sure. As for my own branch stuff, I'd really love to share more but isn't easy. You have no idea how hard was to get permission to put this video online. lol.
TadzioG 4 years ago
Hey, anything is better than the competition stuff that we have to do in the US.
I posted some "Che" style videos of me competing, but if we stray from the Hebei/modern wushu xingyi during forms competitions, it will scored down.
l1hao 4 years ago
I have a question, why all I see posted is forms, in my opinion it just a display of dancing no real demonstration of true martial skill. I mean anybody can learn to perform a form well in a few months. I just find it funny people look at some footage of a chinese cat doing some hsing yi set and think they are great. Why not post some free fighting clips people doing so real contact training learning how to truly appy the art , or is that to secret..lol
blacktaoist 4 years ago
My post is in no means a disrespect to the teacher demonstrating. Sure he may be very good, my point is a person peforming a form don't prove a thing about real skill. To truly know if a person is skilled in any art you have to cross hands, shit have to be felt real time in a free combat environment to truly know what the real deal is with a individuals. Looking at a form display don't prove a thing. I met many good damces that was not shit when it came time to throw down, show and prove.
blacktaoist 4 years ago
Hello. Let me try to explain to you the situation.
First of all it is an incorrect assumption when you say that "anybody can learn to perform a form well in a few months".
TadzioG 4 years ago
The truth is that anyone can learn the movements of a form in a short period of time, but to be able to physically express the characteristics of the martial art you practice through the form takes a long time. Forms are not only movements per se, they are movements that must be executed according to different body methods and ways of issuing power.
TadzioG 4 years ago
Second, the reason why you mainly see forms is that, in my personal opinion, most people can't use what they train to actually fight. There are people that can, but it seems that most of them can't. In our specific case the reason is that Shanxi is one of the most traditional places in China, totally different from Beijing, and almost no one will agree to openly post videos of they training.
TadzioG 4 years ago
You might agree with this way of thinking or not but the fact is that it is like this in Shanxi. I have been trying to post 2 men training and fighting footage for years but unfortunately I still didn't get permission to do so.
TadzioG 4 years ago
I hate to give excuses for the fact that I can't post fighting videos as I understand that they would be a more evident display of martial skill and would definnetly be my first choice for posting, but anyone that spent time in China will understand what I am saying and will recognize my arguments as correct.
Shanxi is not Beijing and China is not the USA. Cultures are different and try to understand Chinese traditional culture from the point of view of western culture will not work.
TadzioG 4 years ago
I live here and as much as I would like to post fighting material for everyone to see, I have to deal with the local ways.
I hope I was able to clarify the points you raised.
All the best.
TadzioG 4 years ago
Sweet.
boonbeast 4 years ago
A real evidence Dan Dien Power.
rhinokung 4 years ago
That is SWEET fahjing, I remember there were some vids you posted earlier, could you please post them and more if you have them? Such treasures.
l1hao 4 years ago
Great vid... those moves are so driven by intention it's uncanny. Thanks.
littlecannon 4 years ago
Very nice! Thanks for posting this.
Ed
UatuEd 4 years ago
Thanks a lot Tadzio!
Hope that everything is alright on your side,
Take care
Alex from Mtl
AlexMtl 4 years ago
Everything is fine, thanks,
Take care.
T.
TadzioG 4 years ago