You know, sf, I don't think that you go into enough detail about this one. I'm just not capturing the essence of what truly makes this episode so awful. Maybe you need an extra 30 minutes or so to explain.
The whole thing smells like a lemon (porn fanfic). Janeway & tom transform into animals and get some nookie. What the spunk encrusted hell. I feel dirty watching the episode, this is what walking in on someone jerking off to furry porn feels like.
I always thought it was odd that Janeway mentioned Neil Armstrong in her 'Great Pilots' speech. If she's talking about the Moon Landing, Armstrong was the commander of Apollo 13, Mike Collins was the pilot.
@Slashgibber Buzz was called the Lunar Module Pilot, but the actual piloting is done by the commander. Armstrong had to take manual control of the landing because of computer issues and a potentially unsafe landing site.
@sfdebris Alan Bean was the only Lunar Module Pilot to actually pilot the lunar module, as Pete Conrad let him have control of Intrepid--Apollo 12's lunar module--while they were on the dark side of the moon, out of communications with NASA. :)
@Dilandau3000 Funny that this came up after Gingrich's speech about building a moon colony and allowing it to become a state. Interesting to think that on the American flag the moon would be represented by a star.
Hey, Chuck! Previously there was an introduction vid where you talked also about Indiana Jones and that we all should think and be open-minded.an so on. What happened to this?? BTW, i liked your pronunciation in the old vid more. "And that is NOT an opinion". Your emotions seemed to be stronger.
You know, as bad as this episode is, it's got nothing on Spirit Folk.
But that should be reserved for another Christmas. After all, we still have the VOY finale, the ENT finale, several Wesley episodes, 2/3rds of Turd Season, that ENT episode where T'Pol gets put up on auction, Gazelle speech, Profit and Old Lace...
I should really stop. I'm starting to depress myself. Holy crap, how could a franchise that gave us Chain of Command -- the best 90 minutes of television -- give us 'Dear Doctor'?
I have a quick question about the notion of being everywhere at once. Would your physical space constanly clip and overlap with eachother? As in, your ship, then your ship one atom-length away, then another, and so on.
Well like that whole Janeway not putting out so Q would just send them home....why not use the infinite drive to end up back where you started....I mean space is big so just ballpark the alpha quadrant.
I could be mistaken but I don't think it was ever stated that when you turn the engines off, you end up back where you started. The first time it happened, Tom was either lucky or intended to end up where he started. Therefore, the second time it happened (and Tom & Janeway ended up somewhere else) it wasn't a mistake.
"Threshold" had the decent concept of evolution not necessarily going in an "upward" direction (given the extreme external pressures, life on Earth may revert to a overall move primitive state) but it was plopped into a big mess of scripting/directing fail that was more suited to the worse of TOS and very early TNG.
IF THE EMH COULD REVERSE THE BAD SIDE EFFECT OF TURNING INTO A GIANT NUTE, WHY NOT INITIATE THAT EXTREME WARP SPEED ANYWAY???!!! THE EMH WOULD REMAIN UNHARMED!!!
Knowing how stupid this episode was, maybe Paris and Janeway devolved because the shuttle flew at Warp 10 in the opposite direction or something. Makes no sense, but neither did anything about the episode. I wonder if the people involved with the production ever turn on their TV, see this episode, and put their face in their hands saying, "Oh, God, not again..."
You took out one of my favorite jokes, Though it may have been a different episode... It went along the lines of "If I had to compare episodes to food then -Perfect Episode Title- would be a gourmet meal, this episode would be a sit down restaurant, this episode would be drive through, this episode would be a McDonald's sandwich, this one would be a McDonald's sandwich that had been left out over night and Threshold would be a McDonald's left out over night with a cigarette put out on it"
@ATADSP That was from the intro of this video--the same intro that Chuck said he forgot about and therefore didn't redo. I'm sure he'll eventually upload the intro.
This episode was only good for making jokes later on with other Trekkies whenever Warp 10 was brought up, and it always brought cries of "Nooooo! It will turn you into a salamandeeeeer!"
It seems like most of Trek's later science problems were rooted in a good idea (that we should defer to science rather than presume the correctness of our assumptions) that was perverted into a bad idea (that science has a plan for everything which should not be interfered with). This also explains some of the weirder interpretations of the Prime Directive.
Now i understand: Voyager is giving out the concept "you can beat science if you try hard enough! - it has happened before!" spread by people who gave up on science before they entered the room of the unholy scriptwriting where they deliver the science consultant as human sacrifice
OK Possible theory on paris asking nelix about multispectral engine design. Trying to throw meaning less technobable at him to get him to piss off. Makes sense to me anyway.
You know when he's asking Neelix if he know's anything about multispectral warp engine design. It could be he's just trying to technobable at him to make him feel like this is way above his head and get him to piss off. It doesn't really hold true with the amount of technobable in voyager but it makes sense to me.
I've always held this episode as proof that no-on who made Voyager episodes really cared whether or not they were making quality entertainment.
I mean, here's an episode that SFDebris is able to make a review for that's about as long as the episode itself, filled almost entirely with negative criticism.
No other Star Trek episode in history has had that much bad press, with the possible exception of "Matter of Honour". But at least that episode had the "so bad it's funny" thing going for it.
Threshold was badass. Tom Paris straight up rips out his own tongue and laughs about it. I think the episode works if you look at it as being a dream that Michael Jonas had. It couldn't be Tom Paris' dream because no one else knew that Jonas was a traitor, and it could make sense that Jonas would project his own guilt and need to prove himself on to someone else. Paris is a good fit, and it is not uncommon for your viewpoint to switch from one identity to another while you are dreaming.
I love that you needed three parts to discuss the epic ridiculousness that is "Threshold." It's like the "Spock's Brain" of Voyager, it's so bad it's good! Hilarious!
I know its sad but in part two you used a weather map of my home country Scotland, I was like "I AM FROM THERE, THE GUY FROM THE INTERNET KNOWS WHERE I LIVE."
well sfdebris it could have been worse. Could have been jane way X Paris pairing with her demanding credit for the babies they left on the planet. Or she could have gone back to try and raise them into a lizard army.
How is warp 10 a mythical threshold when the Enterprise hit warp 13 in All Good Things? Wouldn't warp factors be treated in a similar way that mach numbers are used to denote velocity relative to the speed of sound?
Got to chuckle at the speed of light bit since physicists at CERN may have actually broken it using those wacky neutrinos. Still no real proof yet, so your example is correct. You probably knew about it anyway. XD
It's a bummer when I remember an old review of yours that I enjoyed and decide to watch it again only to discover you haven't re-uploaded it to blip yet. Good to be able to watch this classic again.
Oh, come on, SFDebris. Don't you know anything about Multi Spectral Engine design? You simply put wings on a horse, dye it's mane in a rainbow color and let it break the Lightspeed Barrier after you write fanfics insinuating it's sexual orientation.
This is episode ranks in my top three worst episodes of all Star Trek. It makes a complete mockery of science. "Code of Honour" because it utterly fails on a social level with it's racism and "These are the Voyages" for it's abuse of the characters and story telling. These three episodes form the trilogy of ruining everything good about Star Trek. To me, they will always be "The Phantom Honour", "Attack of the Threshold" and "Revenge of the Voyages"
I feel sorry for you for having to sit through this watching it as many times as you have had to do for us. I'm not sure I could handle watching this POS anymore than the first time.
@sfdebris I'm not sure what to say. You made the review more informativ (some trekkies where annoying you about this episode, didnt they) to ground your opinion. But you're also less emotional which kind of made this my favorite review. I could feel your true "hatred" behind your voice on the original. Now you're calmer. Although the same jokes are in place.
Oh and I saw the review on blip even before the update was posted here.
I was waiting for Neelix to say "When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University!"
garamonde 3 weeks ago
You know, sf, I don't think that you go into enough detail about this one. I'm just not capturing the essence of what truly makes this episode so awful. Maybe you need an extra 30 minutes or so to explain.
I jest, of course. Love the review!
CerebralStasis 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
CerebralStasis 4 weeks ago
The whole thing smells like a lemon (porn fanfic). Janeway & tom transform into animals and get some nookie. What the spunk encrusted hell. I feel dirty watching the episode, this is what walking in on someone jerking off to furry porn feels like.
InternetStudiesGuy 4 weeks ago
@InternetStudiesGuy Then don't walk into my room without knocking next time.
CerebralStasis 4 weeks ago
Your Pokemon commentary on Tom was hilarious!
Decker22 4 weeks ago
I always thought it was odd that Janeway mentioned Neil Armstrong in her 'Great Pilots' speech. If she's talking about the Moon Landing, Armstrong was the commander of Apollo 13, Mike Collins was the pilot.
MikeB8472 4 weeks ago 3
@MikeB8472 Armstrong piloted the Eagle, the landing craft of Apollo 11 (not 13, that's the one that never landed on the moon).
sfdebris 4 weeks ago
@sfdebris It was Buzz who piloted the Eagle.
Slashgibber 4 weeks ago
@Slashgibber Buzz was called the Lunar Module Pilot, but the actual piloting is done by the commander. Armstrong had to take manual control of the landing because of computer issues and a potentially unsafe landing site.
sfdebris 4 weeks ago
@sfdebris Alan Bean was the only Lunar Module Pilot to actually pilot the lunar module, as Pete Conrad let him have control of Intrepid--Apollo 12's lunar module--while they were on the dark side of the moon, out of communications with NASA. :)
Dilandau3000 3 weeks ago
@Dilandau3000 Funny that this came up after Gingrich's speech about building a moon colony and allowing it to become a state. Interesting to think that on the American flag the moon would be represented by a star.
sfdebris 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
trlkly 4 weeks ago
This is the first time I've come to one of your reviews and the counter wasn't stuck 306 (or thereabouts). You've made it to 460!
(I know that YouTube updates the count in spurts and that a lot of your fans probably don't bother with the YouTube trailer)
trlkly 4 weeks ago
@trlkly I regularly see views between 2,000 to 3,000 per video.
Xondar11223344 4 weeks ago
Hey, Chuck! Previously there was an introduction vid where you talked also about Indiana Jones and that we all should think and be open-minded.an so on. What happened to this?? BTW, i liked your pronunciation in the old vid more. "And that is NOT an opinion". Your emotions seemed to be stronger.
Exverlobter 4 weeks ago
@Exverlobter Chuck mentioned that he forgot about it. I'm not sure if that means he's going to upload it soon or if it's going to be a while.
mitmfan 4 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
this show is so boring...there are no redeeming qualities to it whatsoever. Boring actors, terrible writing, bad acting, crappy CG...YAWN
I don't know why Space runs re-runs after re-runs of Voyager and not DS9.
LOLMAN22 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
LOLMAN22 4 weeks ago
this show is so boring...there are no redeeming qualities to it whatsoever. Boring actors, terrible writing, bad acting, crappy CG...YAWN
I don't why Space runs re-runs after re-runs of Voyager and not DS9.
LOLMAN22 4 weeks ago 4
@LOLMAN22
To each his own, I guess. personally, I like Voyager.
Then again, I also like Enterprise.
TheTylerJH 3 weeks ago
@charlesvan13 They also went past warp ten in the future in TNG's "All Good Things..."
Meushell 4 weeks ago
@Meushell Which implies that the scale was changed again sometime before that point. Probably because saying "Warp 9.9999945" is too annoying.
Dilandau3000 4 weeks ago
There are a few points that I could gloss over and make not an issue in this episode but in the end shiny shit is still shit
ATADSP 4 weeks ago
I seem to recall the original Enterprise going warp 11 when Nomad modified the engines.
Although, technical consistency has never been a strong point of this franchise.
charlesvan13 4 weeks ago
@charlesvan13 TOS used a completely different warp scale than the later series. Warp 10 wasn't the limit back then.
Dilandau3000 4 weeks ago
You know, as bad as this episode is, it's got nothing on Spirit Folk.
But that should be reserved for another Christmas. After all, we still have the VOY finale, the ENT finale, several Wesley episodes, 2/3rds of Turd Season, that ENT episode where T'Pol gets put up on auction, Gazelle speech, Profit and Old Lace...
I should really stop. I'm starting to depress myself. Holy crap, how could a franchise that gave us Chain of Command -- the best 90 minutes of television -- give us 'Dear Doctor'?
maltheopia 4 weeks ago
@maltheopia
And Rick Berman washed his hands and rode into the sunset. His work here was done.
OsirisLord 4 weeks ago
PEOPLE
ARE NOT
POKEMON
maltheopia 4 weeks ago
hey sfdebris, have you ever play Pokemon
mapklaus 1 month ago
Multi-spectral engine design... so the shuttle is powered by Rainbow Dash?
Dilandau3000 1 month ago
@Dilandau3000 I kinda wish he'd edited in a Rainbow Dash joke after his review of FIM, but alas.
Kyronea 4 weeks ago
I don't understand what the writers were thinking. What kind of dumbass were they writing for?
magustx 1 month ago
I have a quick question about the notion of being everywhere at once. Would your physical space constanly clip and overlap with eachother? As in, your ship, then your ship one atom-length away, then another, and so on.
Xepscern 1 month ago
Well like that whole Janeway not putting out so Q would just send them home....why not use the infinite drive to end up back where you started....I mean space is big so just ballpark the alpha quadrant.
Sure we have no show if that happens, but c'mon.
StuffedAnimalAdvisor 1 month ago
I could be mistaken but I don't think it was ever stated that when you turn the engines off, you end up back where you started. The first time it happened, Tom was either lucky or intended to end up where he started. Therefore, the second time it happened (and Tom & Janeway ended up somewhere else) it wasn't a mistake.
mitmfan 1 month ago
"Threshold" had the decent concept of evolution not necessarily going in an "upward" direction (given the extreme external pressures, life on Earth may revert to a overall move primitive state) but it was plopped into a big mess of scripting/directing fail that was more suited to the worse of TOS and very early TNG.
IF THE EMH COULD REVERSE THE BAD SIDE EFFECT OF TURNING INTO A GIANT NUTE, WHY NOT INITIATE THAT EXTREME WARP SPEED ANYWAY???!!! THE EMH WOULD REMAIN UNHARMED!!!
TedShatner10 1 month ago
Knowing how stupid this episode was, maybe Paris and Janeway devolved because the shuttle flew at Warp 10 in the opposite direction or something. Makes no sense, but neither did anything about the episode. I wonder if the people involved with the production ever turn on their TV, see this episode, and put their face in their hands saying, "Oh, God, not again..."
All2Meme 1 month ago
Kick them all into the blast furnace and the remains into the BOF.
riveness 1 month ago
You took out one of my favorite jokes, Though it may have been a different episode... It went along the lines of "If I had to compare episodes to food then -Perfect Episode Title- would be a gourmet meal, this episode would be a sit down restaurant, this episode would be drive through, this episode would be a McDonald's sandwich, this one would be a McDonald's sandwich that had been left out over night and Threshold would be a McDonald's left out over night with a cigarette put out on it"
ATADSP 1 month ago
@ATADSP That was from the intro of this video--the same intro that Chuck said he forgot about and therefore didn't redo. I'm sure he'll eventually upload the intro.
mitmfan 1 month ago
@mitmfan Thank you for telling me, I guess I didn't catch that comment. I thought I had gone insane, well insaner
ATADSP 4 weeks ago
There really is a Santa Claus
trekkiefans04 1 month ago
This episode was only good for making jokes later on with other Trekkies whenever Warp 10 was brought up, and it always brought cries of "Nooooo! It will turn you into a salamandeeeeer!"
thunderphoenix440 1 month ago 2
People blame Enterprise for the demise of the franchise, but I think Voyager was the real culprit. How did this show manage seven seasons?!
Danny77uk 1 month ago
@Danny77uk
Nemesis also deserves a fair share of the blame.
thunderphoenix440 1 month ago
It seems like most of Trek's later science problems were rooted in a good idea (that we should defer to science rather than presume the correctness of our assumptions) that was perverted into a bad idea (that science has a plan for everything which should not be interfered with). This also explains some of the weirder interpretations of the Prime Directive.
handsomebrick 1 month ago 2
Now i understand: Voyager is giving out the concept "you can beat science if you try hard enough! - it has happened before!" spread by people who gave up on science before they entered the room of the unholy scriptwriting where they deliver the science consultant as human sacrifice
S1nwar 1 month ago
OK Possible theory on paris asking nelix about multispectral engine design. Trying to throw meaning less technobable at him to get him to piss off. Makes sense to me anyway.
KaelBanner 1 month ago
You know when he's asking Neelix if he know's anything about multispectral warp engine design. It could be he's just trying to technobable at him to make him feel like this is way above his head and get him to piss off. It doesn't really hold true with the amount of technobable in voyager but it makes sense to me.
KaelBanner 1 month ago
Yes! I've been looking forward to this review's return. But whatever happened to that lovely intro video?
JoshuatheAnarchist 1 month ago
Yesssss... it's back 3:-)
everyoneissleeping 1 month ago
"what's your flight plan?"
"well, I'll be occupying every point in the universe so i don't think i need one"...lol
Hurqq 1 month ago 2
@Hurqq That was my favourite joke too.
mercatormac 1 month ago
I've always held this episode as proof that no-on who made Voyager episodes really cared whether or not they were making quality entertainment.
I mean, here's an episode that SFDebris is able to make a review for that's about as long as the episode itself, filled almost entirely with negative criticism.
No other Star Trek episode in history has had that much bad press, with the possible exception of "Matter of Honour". But at least that episode had the "so bad it's funny" thing going for it.
TheJboy88 1 month ago
Threshold was badass. Tom Paris straight up rips out his own tongue and laughs about it. I think the episode works if you look at it as being a dream that Michael Jonas had. It couldn't be Tom Paris' dream because no one else knew that Jonas was a traitor, and it could make sense that Jonas would project his own guilt and need to prove himself on to someone else. Paris is a good fit, and it is not uncommon for your viewpoint to switch from one identity to another while you are dreaming.
surfingthechaos 1 month ago
I love that you needed three parts to discuss the epic ridiculousness that is "Threshold." It's like the "Spock's Brain" of Voyager, it's so bad it's good! Hilarious!
Cassadinegirlaz 1 month ago
Oh no! The Infamous Worst Episode Ever!!! *watches, grabs snack*
ReadmanJ 1 month ago
I know its sad but in part two you used a weather map of my home country Scotland, I was like "I AM FROM THERE, THE GUY FROM THE INTERNET KNOWS WHERE I LIVE."
MrJaystar15 1 month ago
well sfdebris it could have been worse. Could have been jane way X Paris pairing with her demanding credit for the babies they left on the planet. Or she could have gone back to try and raise them into a lizard army.
amberace 1 month ago
this is why I love the voyager reviews. All eps of voyager should be reviewed :D
welme23 1 month ago
Wasn't there an intro to this?
FlowinEnno 1 month ago
Nice to know that evolution is a circular thing, maybe those salamander children will one day evolve into men.
erisi236 1 month ago
How is warp 10 a mythical threshold when the Enterprise hit warp 13 in All Good Things? Wouldn't warp factors be treated in a similar way that mach numbers are used to denote velocity relative to the speed of sound?
sourrooster 1 month ago
@sourrooster I read somewhere that they moved it between TOS and TNG so 10 could remain the theoretical maximum.
handsomebrick 1 month ago
Got to chuckle at the speed of light bit since physicists at CERN may have actually broken it using those wacky neutrinos. Still no real proof yet, so your example is correct. You probably knew about it anyway. XD
bazookoidben 1 month ago
@bazookoidben The latest research would suggest that the possibility is shrinking every single day. Einstein's crown is safe once again.
clearspira 1 month ago
It's a bummer when I remember an old review of yours that I enjoyed and decide to watch it again only to discover you haven't re-uploaded it to blip yet. Good to be able to watch this classic again.
QueenOliver 1 month ago
Ah, an episode so bad I decided to make the multi-spectral subspace rainbow engines quote my signature on IMDb Boards!
Foebane72 1 month ago
Threshold?! God help us all!!!
nightwing4077 1 month ago
Oh, come on, SFDebris. Don't you know anything about Multi Spectral Engine design? You simply put wings on a horse, dye it's mane in a rainbow color and let it break the Lightspeed Barrier after you write fanfics insinuating it's sexual orientation.
RestamSalucard 1 month ago
@RestamSalucard
That would have made Threshold, like, 20% cooler.
shuboy05 1 month ago
@shuboy05 1.2 times 0 is still 0% coolness
ATADSP 1 month ago
Tom Paris! To infinity and beyond!
This was the review that got me watching you and loving your work. Something so terrible can make something so awesome.
bazookoidben 1 month ago 16
One small point. I hardly think less of Nielx because he doesn't understand the concept of infinity. Find me someone who does.
oEQjet 1 month ago
@oEQjet the lack of an ending point
handsomebrick 1 month ago
This is episode ranks in my top three worst episodes of all Star Trek. It makes a complete mockery of science. "Code of Honour" because it utterly fails on a social level with it's racism and "These are the Voyages" for it's abuse of the characters and story telling. These three episodes form the trilogy of ruining everything good about Star Trek. To me, they will always be "The Phantom Honour", "Attack of the Threshold" and "Revenge of the Voyages"
JoshGilhen 1 month ago 2
:D
It's back~
Mythmaker12687 1 month ago
I pray you never have to review this again. Isn't thins your third time?
frankenmuth1 1 month ago
I feel sorry for you for having to sit through this watching it as many times as you have had to do for us. I'm not sure I could handle watching this POS anymore than the first time.
ZeppNick03 1 month ago
nice, I was waiting for this one :)
pietje32 1 month ago
Lots of stuff has been reworked with this. I also decided to give this one a second stinger because the moment was so odd even for this show.
I do hope my emphatic pronunciation makes the pun more obvious this time around.
sfdebris 1 month ago 13
@sfdebris I'm not sure what to say. You made the review more informativ (some trekkies where annoying you about this episode, didnt they) to ground your opinion. But you're also less emotional which kind of made this my favorite review. I could feel your true "hatred" behind your voice on the original. Now you're calmer. Although the same jokes are in place.
Oh and I saw the review on blip even before the update was posted here.
ThePariahDark 1 month ago
@sfdebris
Have you done a review of all the series side by side? It sounds like something you did, but I can't remember.
kasrkinmullet 1 month ago