What is a Cult? Why do people call the JW's a cult?

[MsAgnosticatheist]

I was raised as a JW and my entire family are members. I have also done much studying and research and I can say without a doubt that they are a dangerous cult. No doubt about it. They are deceptive and control the flow of information while demanding full obedience without question.

[puncho33]

you need a religion,i dont.....

[puncho33]

for anyone to defend a jw is an idiot,those people use some of the bible to fit their needs and give different meanings to some verses in the bible,kind of like children of the corn the movie.......

[ProblemSolva182]

@puncho33 i personally use all of the bible. you must be confused of church going christians who go to church on suday and fornicate the rest of the week, otherwise what needs of jws are you talking about? jws are constantly taught to read the bible daily and reason from scriptures.

[puncho33]

@ProblemSolva182 cult!

[ProblemSolva182]

@puncho33 if you truly believe that and have facts to back that up then you would tell me.

[customanalogue]

No, I am not making this up and accusing me just makes these people like Holocaust Deniers, saying that six millions Jews were not killed, not forgetting 20 million slavs and 15 million Chinese and YES, Jehovah's Witnesses got their share too.

IF he is an ex-JW who claims he has left, then I can tell you that HE IS NOT WELCOME. What's the saying? Good riddance?

Unless he has a MASSIVE change of heart., as unlikely as that seems.

Accusing me of lying makes him WHAT? Not hard to figure out.

[kogamisamurai]

how do you feel about that? if ur father just lied like they do today..than none of what supposedly happened to you or ur family would have happened. Does that bother you? If i was ur dad i would be PISSED.JWs 20 yrs ago had it harder than jws today.They had to pronounce their faith.Todays witnesses can lie according to theocratic warfare strategy.So with that knowledge what will you do? continue following a org that says its ok to lie? i guess so. Good luck with that.

[customanalogue]

@kogamisamurai

My late Father was actually well known within the movie, TV and recording industry. He was HIGHLY respected by people whose names are well known, like Sammy Davis Jnr, a Jew.

Something is clearly eating you up. You do what YOU like and we do what WE like, so leave it at that. Otherwise you and those like you are showing classic signs of obsessive delutional disorder.

Go, do whatever you like, nobody is telling YOU what to do, are they? You do it anyway. Same with us, let it be.

[kogamisamurai]

@customanalogue im sorry did i give the notion i care about how well known ur father was or who he was. You just had to throw all the persecution stuff to get to the point of ur father being "well known". And he was a witness too?? oh he was a good jw i see.And he must have been cool if sammy davis the "jew" as you quoted said so. Im done with you...you bore me.

[customanalogue]

Let's put the facts on the table.. that k-samurai accuses me of lying, making things up:

My father, with a wife and two young childred under 2, one of them ME, was conscripted into the armed forced. He said NO. They put him in THREE MONTHS SOLITARY CONFINEMENT trying to break him, saw and heard only noises and basic food. He then served the remainder of a 2 year sentence.

17 years later my brother and I, we had to FLEE to Australia, to avoid a similar fate. This was during the Cold War mania.

[kogamisamurai]

@customanalogue ok..lets back up. If that really did happen to ur family then I apologize. But what does ur story mean? that jws are persecuted? if so then your story also included jews, millions of slaves .right? So they were more persecuted than ur family You included the jws with the jews and millions of chinese yet they dont even come close to be shared in the same sentence. Well i guess ur father wishes he had todays rule with the jws regarding theocratic warfare strategy, they just lie.

[kogamisamurai]

This video made me think that if the society told everyone to kill themselves..well there would be alot of dead jws. Although.... god said no rich man will enter his house..and yet we still see alot of rich witnesses. Hmmm

[customanalogue]

@kogamisamurai

Kill themselves with what? They don't carry weapons, opposed to every violent activity.

It's a totally NON-VIOLENT SOCIETY. So what you are suggesting won't happen. We ARE JWs because we won't share the ways of this violent world.

We get targeted by POLITICIANS and GOVERNMENTS who wants us TO LEARN WAR. NO WAY!

My Father spent TWO YEARS IN PRISON.

My Brother and I had to LEAVE OUR OWN COUNTRY TO AVOID SAME FATE!

You know very little about Jehovah's Witnesses !!!

[kogamisamurai]

@customanalogue 18 years was enough time to waste for me.I know enough to walk away..unlike urself. The point was you JWs follow the gb without question. This persecuting you act like ur feeling is in ur mind..all made up. Lets be real..JWs pick and choose what scriptures they wanna follow. John 5:39-42 applies to all jws too. 2Tim 3:15-17..read that over and over till u question urself why u read jw "other" publications.That scrip tells me u dont listen to Jah.

[poblo234]

ahem no one fuck me for this but . . .

religon is bull shit there i said it no not god is bullshit the church wants your money

the kingdom hall does too like i said no christain cathlic or what the fuck has to screw me in any way shape or form gods real belive in him love jesus worship god and know that things are gonna get worse before they get better

[sundoeco]

i know them very well as i have family and mates who are. and their normal! just have strong beliefs in the bible, and try to do "everything" it says unlike the church i go to where we all go and most of the younger people are hungover and cant wait to leave! i say fairplay to them!

[middleman777]

@sundoeco

"and their normal!"

I don't know too many other "normal" churches that have a "witness rule" policy, in order for their clergy to report a molestation incident/charge. The WBTS has such a rule. Very dangerous and disgusting.

[customanalogue]

@middleman777

Would you like to explain that. What you are saying makes no sense to me. What "rule" is this?

[middleman777]

@customanalogue

The JWs have a witness rule where there has to be multiple witnesses -of a molestation- in order for them to REPORT it to the police. If there are not witnesses, then their policy does not require their leaders (Elders) to report the abuse to anyone i. e. the congregation, family, police etc. I ask, what's the likelihood of witnesses being there to witness the molestation? Very slim, therefore...it's a "pedophile's paradise" of a religion.

[customanalogue]

@middleman777

You are completely twisting the topic and quite frankly I am NOT going to give you the time of day.

The inference you make is DISGUSTING in the ***EXTREME***.

You are clearly pushing a very DIRTY AGENDA - in fact FILTH!

I am the Father of THREE children.

[customanalogue]

Some of you people should be truly ashamed of yourself.

Is the NO LIMITS to where you will go in your *EXTREMIST* anti-JW DISLIKE.

FILTHY MINDS !!

The "rule" you speak of is no such rule in the sense and mold you want to twist it into. If you really think this is the case IN YOUR MIND, it says FAR MORE about *YOU* than it does asbout us.

IF *I* or any other Jehovah's Witness saw an act of paedophilia we would be HORRIFIED - and NOTHING would stop us from preventing JUSTICE take its course.

[uberfrozenglow]

@middleman777 that's not true. children's aren't left alone with other adult's like in catholic church. there isn't special meeting’s just for children's they are always attend by there parent's or family and the witness for molestation never heard off, you must be confusing with muslim cultures. i'm not saying that children's there are free of molestation just like everywhere else but a pedophile's paradise?? just proves that you are retard that doesn't know what his talking about

[middleman777]

@uberfrozenglow

Read the reports from the police and the court transcripts. That tells the story of what going on...

[uberfrozenglow]

@middleman777 Where? The only histories that i heard is isolated cases were someone is molested from a family member and that jw failed by cover the situation. In how many families that is done to there ones? But isn't like you hear in Catholic Church were priests molest years after years dozen's, thousand's of children's. That’s a "pedophille paradise". If you are a pedophille you go for priest. in jw you don't have cases of the elders attacking children's. is there a link?

[middleman777]

@uberfrozenglow

If you giver me some time, I will give you some quotes from their literature and policies. It's been nice chatting with you!

[middleman777]

@uberfrozenglow

The police reports and court transcripts say otherwise...

[uberfrozenglow]

@middleman777 you do get it that i grow up as jw and i know a lot of jw and that i don’t agree with your sentence about being a "pedophile’s paradise" bcs that implies that is a common habit in jw and that is not true bcs... I WAS THERE. Get it?? Yes there are cases like in EVERYWHERE. Get it??? There’s always 1 jerk but the way you said it looks like the all congregation does it. My problem with jw was that i couldn't make out like the teens outside jw. See is exactly the opposite. Get it??

[middleman777]

@uberfrozenglow

Perhaps you should re-read their official policy... 

[uberfrozenglow]

@middleman777 and where are i can find those "official policy...."???

[kogamisamurai]

@customanalogue are you an active witness? How do u not know this "rule"? Mr informed jw isnt really informed is he. Thought you knew everything dumbass.

[customanalogue]

@kogamisamurai

I am glad you are not my neighbour. There is something very disturbed about you. That rule is an invention and a gross distortion of a simple principle that is in EVERY BIBLE.

***EVERY*** BIBLE !!!

Deut 17: 6 and 2 Cor 13:1

I choose to be better informed than you, but then I don't have your nasty vincitive spirit. Bye bye.

[kogamisamurai]

@customanalogue u really are retarded..."the rule is an invention" or is it " a gross distortion" ??? which is it?? And its in every bible so u agree with this policy i see. Well dummy i hope you dont have a little child in the congregation. Oh sorry i know ur better informed than me so i wont advise u on anything.

[middleman777]

@sundoeco

I don't know too many other "normal" churches that have a "witness rule" policy, in order for their clergy to report a molestation incident/charge. The WBTS has such a rule. Very dangerous and disgusting.

[chadgresham]

@sundoeco lies

[sundoeco]

@chadgresham i have no reason for defending them, i have no need to lie. cest la vie mate, cest la vie.

[customanalogue]

@sundoeco

It's interesting that the Bible says in Acts 28 that the Christians were generally regarded as a sect. Hence the early Christians would have, by the definitions given in the video, also have been labelled a cult. Jesus inspired such devotions that many of his disciples WERE executed, including James, Paul, Stephen and Peter.

But is also not the Catholic Church also a sect with the Pope as it head telling adherents whether they can use condoms etc. Why pick on Jehovah's Witnesses?

[wayneandlois]

Very well done.

[TheWICCACHANNEL]

christians have done all of these things to the letter!!

[sundoeco]

@TheWICCACHANNEL Of course Christians do these things to the letter, That"s why my Vicar is homosexual.

[santosjaguar]

todos podemos tomar nuestras propias decisiones. en lo personal ami no se me forzado a nada. todo lo hago por voluntad propia. y lo que hago me gusta. si ati no te gusta pues has lo que te guste. yo estoy feliz aki tu se feliz alla. saludos

[BES6003]

Ppl who are most VONURABLE are ppl with a "worker" History like Mexicans and blkppl who who are MIGRANTS from the plantation and whites from a poor "working class" no one eles fits in. Check a book CALLED "BLOOD ON THE ALTAR" IT ABOUT THIS JW CULT AND ITS FOUNDER j taze russel the slave owner and exploiter.

[willhedoright]

Cult... hmm.. Ask yourself, Do Jehovah's Witnesses stay in some isolated area, away from society? Do Witnesses work to provide for their family in society? Do they gather in some strange facility that isnt open to the public?

Im ignorant about Mormon beliefs, but i see mormons on the regular, therefore, you cant speak about Mormons being in a cult as well. There apart of society as well as the Witnesses are.

[willhedoright]

The definition Wikipedia gives regarding a cult can be labeled to the apostles of Christ. Were they not, to the religious leaders of their day, filling Jersusalem with a teaching (that's similar to your "Excessive Control" due to the people following Christ' kingdom message) that they considered, unorthodox? (Acts 5:28-30) Did they not have great devotion to Jehovah and Christ while spreading the good news? (Acts 4:20; 20:20)

But we both know they were not a cult ...

[BELTED007]

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice video mate!!! Well done!

[clnmyjts]

Religions are alway dividing & splitting off threw out time.

You find this in every religious practice on the earth..

This video has a lot of good point made.

The idea of a cult could even be referred to as some one who follows Jesus teaching if you applied the dictionaries meaning of a cult; ( the following of a man )

Jesus was a man and it was only the people who claimed him gods son..He never claims this as fact for himself, but rather asks who do you say I am.

what is a cult? good point

[jahfen0563]

So if the FD is "ANYONE that follows after and remains in HIM," what is the household and who are they giving food to at the proper time?

Matthew 24:45 specifically says that the master places them over his domestics. Who are the domestics that "ANYONE that follows after and remains in HIM," are over and giving them food at the proper time?

[loveladyriza91]

its very sad that the WT organization laid out what a cult on their WT magazine and they even are the ones who operate and practice them, they operate in fear and not out of love, it is very sad, they have no say what ever they are told to beleive and to think even if it is wrong they have to follow or they will be threatened to be destroyed in armageddon, we need to reach out to the jws out of love.

[sldeyo]

Cult-a group of people centered around one person's interpretation of the Bible.

JWs- Charles T. Russell

Mormons-Joseph Smith

They always claim to be a form of Christianity but in fact deny the trinity,diety of Christ and other essentials of Christianity. The are very good counterfeits of Christianity.

[jahfen0563]

Riiight, I praise and love Russel, I have his picture on the wall!

DON'T YOU BE TALKIN BOUT MY PASTOR!! LOL

this is so comical.

[propagandatechniques]

What you idolize and do not even realize it is the faithful and discreet slave CLASS of supposedly anointed (Christos) mortal men. You've raised them up as false Christs (Christos) by accepting them as supposedly anointed. They are not anointed. They are not Christs. Christ means anointed. The two words mean the same thing. You worship mortal men and allow them to direct your step. You are guilty of pagan idolatry in the name of Jesus Christ. He warned you not to follow them. You rejected him.

[jahfen0563]

just when I thought I heard it all...

[propagandatechniques]

He warned you not to follow them. You rejected him.

Mt 24:5 "Many for shall come in the name of me, saying: I am the Anointed; and many they shall deceive. Not therefore go you after them." Lu 21:8 (Emphatic Diaglott)

[jahfen0563]

So tell me who is the faithful steward?What do you think Jesus was talking about?

[propagandatechniques]

He was giving a simple illustration and used slaves as a metaphor the same way he used a tree bearing fine fruit and seed on fine soil. What's happened here is the handlers of your cult tricked your mind into believing this scripture is about them. They could've drilled into your head they are the seed falling on fine soil. You'd be asking me today, "So tell me who is the seed falling on fine soil?" I'd tell you the same thing. It's a manipulated scripture comparable to "you must be born again."

[propagandatechniques]

He was not talking about anyone who claims it's them. If I tell you that scripture is applied to me, run like the dickens away from me. I believe it's a reference to the sheep, period. The so called evil slave hasn't been cut off yet. That, I would think is anyone Jesus decides is a goat, which would then include some of the so-called FDS. Anyone "professing" has a screw loose. It shows a severe lack of humility.

Search with ones searching for the truth. Flee from those saying they found it.

[propagandatechniques]

Here's an interesting thought Jah. The Catholic Church teaches that "Saint" Peter stands in front of "pearly gates" with keys and uses a Bible scripture to support it showing where Peter was given keys. We know it's not true. The FDS CLASS have taken Peter's role by manipulating Mt 24:45-47. You're as deceived as a Catholic who believes Peter is standing at Heaven's gate to believe that these men sitting in penthouses overlooking two of the grandest cities in the world are somehow "slaves".

[propagandatechniques]

Here is what has happened to us. Please do not take it offensively:

They (the "Watch Tower" Society Corporation - two words) purchased us for the cost of a few small books. They gave us what they claim they have been appointed over (these books they label "Christ's possessions") and now they claim that they are appointed over us as well, and now they own us. We have become their chattel. They have convinced us that we enjoy being their chattel and that is very weird. I escaped. You're trapped.

[propagandatechniques]

There is only one way to escape. You have to remove yourself and face the consequences. I'm sorry to be the one to have to tell you this. There's no way to say you want out of this. You're either going to be on their registry as an "inactive JW", or you're going to be labeled an apostate. Most of us didn't realize this was happening to us. We were all tricked. I feel sorry for what you're going to have to endure. These men are silently collecting two things - wealth and domination.

[tommotian]

Is there NO WAY to prevent the JWs from keeping members who want to leave in captivity? I'm an XJW and I feel very bad about not having the opportunity of simply asking them to unregister me as a member. Is it really lawful to prevent people from leaving a religious organization? We all have the right to enlist membership in a political party, and we have a right to leave it if we want to! Is there NO WAY we might persuade the secular authorities to act in our behalf?

- I' from Sweden. Thanks.

[propagandatechniques]

I told them I wanted my name removed from their registry after I discovered they were using mind control criteria on the members. They didn't care about my reason for leaving. They announced me as no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses and then proceeded to give a talk equating ones that disassociate with apostasy. Now I'm being shunned. God's government. You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave. They play for keeps. I make videos. We're even.

[middleman777]

jahfen0563,

the "faithful steward" that Jesus was talking about is ANYONE that follows after and remains in HIM. Even CTR taught and understood this many moons ago.

Blessings...

[sldeyo]

lol!

[propagandatechniques]

Good one! I especially liked the article highlighted on "secret groups". Boy, they fit that one to a T.

[21crosscheck21]

If only Jws had is much passion for Jesus as they do for the organization that they serve!!!!

[jahfen0563]

We do have passion for Jesus! We actually listen to what he said do!

[21crosscheck21]

Jesus instruct us to Go to Him for salvation... have you done that?

Jesus said you "must be born again to SEE or ENTER the Kingdom." Have you done that?

[jahfen0563]

I can't choose my spritual birth just like I can't choose my natural birth. Therefore Jesus couldn't have been giving a command, he was simply making a statement. Jehovah decides who is born again, not the individual.

[21crosscheck21]

I agree he was making a statement. But the statement was was that you cannot see or enter the the Kingdom unless you are born again.

The only way you can live on a paradise earth is to be born again.....  unless of course you believe that paradise earth is not part of that kingdom.

[jahfen0563]

The kingdom of God, is in heaven. Paradise earth will be under that kingdom. Jesus was specifically talking about heaven not paradise earth. Kingdom of God is in heaven not paradise earth.

1 Corinthians 15:50 - flesh and blood cannot inherit Gods kingdom.

surely flesh and blood can enter paradise earth.

[middleman777]

jahfen0563,

good morning how are you? Thank-you for your kind replies! I'm curious, if the earth is not part of God's kingdom then who's is it? We know Satan is the god of this world for now but who will be ruling it in the new world/system? Surely the land that is being ruled over is part of that kingdom, no?

Take care now and I look forward to hearing back from you.

Blessings...

[jahfen0563]

From what I know the kingdom of God is always refered to as in heaven. Jesus was refering to heaven not earth at John 3:3.

[middleman777]

jahfen0563,

thank-you for your response here. So, if the kingdom of God only means heaven, then who's kingdom is earth during the 1000 year reign of Christ...or as the JW's call it the new system/new world?

I cherish your thoughts...keep them coming! Blessings...

[jahfen0563]

Bottom line, the "kingdom of God" is always heaven. Christ will reign over the earth, if you want to call it part of the kingdom, fine. Kingdom of God simply means God's government, the whole earth won't be the government. *Scratching my head*

[lchiddle]

I'm just going to cut in quick.

Jesus said in Luke 17:20-21, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, Here it is, or There it is, because the kingdom of God is within you.

[middleman777]

jahfen,

lets just say that God's government rules only from heaven...I'll play that side for a moment. However, does location of one's ruling dictate the jurisdiction of what they rule over? For example, is the USA still President Obama's "kingdom" to rule over, even if he's in another country? Does a monarch's kingdom only consist of nobles and those in the "inner walls/gates"? Or, does it include even peasants of the land, that are subject to the king, to whom they pay tribute as well?

[laffy4christ]

jahehn,

I've noted you speak "WATCHTOWER" here. U SAID: "1 Corinthians 15:50 - flesh and blood cannot inherit Gods kingdom.

surely flesh and blood can enter paradise earth. "

Ok. Where's ur scripture to back up the claim that flesh & blood can enter paradise. JESUS,PAUL, say our bodies will be different after JESUS comes again...BibLe sez we will be like the ANGELS and JESUS and that we won't be given in marriage or marry (Matthew? i think). Which magazine r u quoting from?

[jahfen0563]

psalms 37:11, 29, and scriptures in Isaiah that tell you how life will be on a earth.

[jahfen0563]

either way it's not up to me to choose if I'm born again... it's up to Jehovah.

[21crosscheck21]

I agree.... you sound like a Calvinist!!

[lchiddle]

You're 100% correct in what you're saying. But I don't think you meant it to be.

Matthew 7:21-23, 13-41-43, 19:28, 25:31-33, Mark 14:62, and Luke 9:26 all say Jesus is this Jehovah you are speaking of.

[Sheeplike1]

My fathers name has been smeared !

[james3v6]

*28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 THIS IS A GREAT MYSTERY: BUT I SPEAK CONCERNING CHRIST AND THE CHURCH.

[james3v6]

(2 Corinthians 11:2) For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

[bj616]

Does take a Rocket Scientist to see that the JW Organization is a Cult. It is one of the top 10 nonchristian cults in the US. Mormons are on the list too.

[jahfen0563]

How many church leaders accept homosexuality, fornication, adultery, etc, etc, etc. Instead of following bibles counsel in having them removed?

[middleman777]

jahfen0563,

surely you know that the WBTS is on the list of harboring pedophiles.

[propagandatechniques]

Your church doesn't remove them either. They simply program the members to scowl at them.

They (the "Watch Tower" Society Corporation - two words) purchased you for the cost of a few small books. They gave you what they claim they have been appointed over (these books they label "Christ's possessions") and now they claim that they are appointed over you as well, and now they own you. You are their chattel. You enjoy being their chattel. How does it feel to be enslaved to mortal men?

[jahfen0563]

How many churches hang on their leaders every word instead of studying the biblle?

How many church leaders publish many bible based books to help understand the bible better?

[FreeAtLast1914]

Jahfen, do you not realize that the WT forbids their adherents from studying the Bible independently from them? Do you not know that the WT expects their followers to believe and trust in their "current" teaching as coming from Jehovah?

[propagandatechniques]

How many churches disfellowship their members for refusing to "hang on every word"?

*** w83 1/15 p. 22 par. 21 Exposing the Devils Subtle Designs ***

"How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by Gods visible organization."

[jahfen0563]

Why don't the churches in christendom fill the need to revise there beliefs that have been proven wrong?

I can go on and on and on...

[middleman777]

jahfen0563,

Which doctrines have been proven wrong and by whom? How many churches have you actually ever been to or even researched? Are you just repeating what your org has taught you?

[FreeAtLast1914]

What about the theology of the WT that has been proven wrong, theology JWs still cling to (Christians living on a paradise earth rather than in heaven, 1914, 607, Jesus dying on a stake, blood transfusions? Should they not change when they are wrong?

Or do they hold to a different standard than the one they measure others by?

[propagandatechniques]

Why does the WTS teach that you cannot be like the Beroeans and examine the scriptures daily to see if the things being taught from the WTS are correct without their "teaching tools" to explain it all to you?

1) You cannot understand the scriptures without our "bible based literature".

2) Therefore, don't bother examining the scriptures daily to see if our "bible based literature" is correct.

Are Jehovah's Witnesses "noble minded" like the Beroeans? If they are, they are called "apostates".

[jahfen0563]

How many churches encourage you to investigate that tithing is no longer needed, trinity is false, hellfire doesn't exist, etc, etc, etc?

How many churches trust the KJV which the most corrupted bible, filled with trinity dogma not available in the oldest bible manuscripts?

How many false prophets are there in church telling there members they are going to heaven, etc, etc, etc?

[FreeAtLast1914]

Jahfen, Thanks for the pm. I hope you will continue our discussion.

On this comment, though, on the importance of investigating a person's religion, the WT must be dead last on the list of religions who encourage their members to investigate and debate their own theology.

I feel they need to practice what they preach, which in this case, is learning all you can about your own religion before encouraging others to do the same with theirs. Less foot in mouth that way.

[propagandatechniques]

You have to realize, Jah, that when you're trying to convince people tithing no longer exists, they're thinking to themselves that this is coming from someone that must turn in a "field service report" each month. Do you think Jesus monitored the amount of hours, books and bible studies his disciples were making? Incidentally, have you thought about corporate executives pressuring parents to use their children to plug a billion dollar a year corporation? You cant see what's really going on here?

[jahfen0563]

Okay, so if JW's are a cult where is God's earthly organization!? Do you believe God has an earthly organization!?

[FreeAtLast1914]

I'll believe in a single, divinely-inspired earthly organization/religion when someone can show me proof from the scriptures that one MUST exist.

Conversely, I can show plenty of scriptures where Paul and others instructed 1st century Christians to "test", "make sure", "carefully examine" our beliefs. When it's time to call a dog a dog, you either do it or pretend the dog is something else. Many people choose the latter when it comes to their religion.

[james3v6]

The "single, divinely-inspired earthly organization" is talked about in the Scriputures and it is called the church by Christ, His disciples and the hosts of heaven. You can be part of that chruch by putting 100% of your faith in Jesus Christ and believing that His sacrifice paid the debt you owe God for your sins. I will PM you and show you the Scriptures that teach the "mystery concerning Christ and the church." I am no apostate, so you won't be breaking any more rules reading what I say.

[FreeAtLast1914]

James, I myself have been labeled an apostate by all of my former associates, so i don't worry too much about breaking men's rules anymore. What was my offense? Questioning my religion through proper channels. It happened that my questions were leaked by the "older men" and ever since my label has stuck.

"By this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves." If that is the standard, JWs must be last in line of those who are true Christians. I pray for every one of them.

[earnestlyseeking]

I agree with the others that say there doesn't seem to be any scriptural support for the "earthly organization" concept. But if you think there is, please post the scriptures so they can be discussed. ES

[james3v6]

These few Scriptures talk about the "church" or (ekklesia) which is a Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both. Remember that Christ said He would build His church: (Matthew 16:18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

[middleman777]

jahfen0563,

God has an organism (body of Christ) NOT an organization. As already cited, please show us where the Bible says there is an organization that God has set up. Where was this organization the previous centuries before Charles Taze Russell came on the scene. I would like names and locations please.

Have a great day...

[james3v6]

That is a good point, I never thought of "organism" as in the Body of Christ.

I will remember that. Thanks brother!

[jahfen0563]

Everything in the bible is not written in plain black and white and is going to jump off the page at you. You have to reason from the scriptures. Matthew 24:14, 28:19,20 - How do you expect these scriptures to take place without organization? Regarding Jehovah's organization before Russel, as far as I know there wasn't one because of great apostacy after the first century apostles past.

[FreeAtLast1914]

Jahfen, why is it when other people reason on the scriptures the WT calls them apostates, but when the reasoning is done by the WT, JWs view it as Gospel?

Also, if Christianity--which became known as Catholicism--was such an apostate group of people, why do the JWs trust the Bible they put together? Would you trust a set of books endorsed and collected by an apostate?

I wouldn't. But then I don't think all Catholics are apostate, either.

[laffy4christ]

FreeAtLast1914

U WROTE to Jahfen: "Also, if Christianity--which became known as Catholicism--was such an apostate group of people, why do the JWs trust the Bible they put together? Would you trust a set of books endorsed and collected by an apostate?"

I've wondered that same thing? JWs basically took the "apostates" bible & re-worked it. They should have started from scratch& checked everything out..how do they know those R the "authoritative books" in the Bible? The ever-changing "truth!"

[jahfen0563]

the bible canon was already decided way before catholics got there hands on it.... all you have to do is study to realize this.

[middleman777]

jahfen0563,

If God didn't have an earthly organization after the first century until CT Russell, then we have two ways to look at this. This being my opinion of course.

Either we have:

1. People that knew God's truth without the help of an organization...

OR

2. There was NO truth (nobody knew it) for 1800 years after the first century apostasy...

Which once do you think is the reality here ? Thanks for posting here I do value your input believe it or not. You're a good kid.

Blessings...

[jahfen0563]

This is pure speculation, we just don't know. I'm not surprised if there was a period of spiritual darkness.

The Jews before the arrival of Jesus, weren't they in spiritual darkness?

[propagandatechniques]

Hey Jah,

How about answering my question? Do you find it difficult to answer? Do you believe I must be an evil "apostate" because I bring out this point to you?

Do you feel there should be laws against child labor, making children go bang on doors to pitch a 2.4 billion dollar a year corporation calling itself Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society? Are you willing to go on record saying you support the recruiting of small children to market this corporation?

[propagandatechniques]

TThis is called "Hobson's Choice", where you offer only two possible answers.

How about 3? The bible is a complete fraud and everybody believing in it unwaveringly is being hoodwinked? Could that be a third possibility?

[middleman777]

PT,

sure we could add many possibilities to my two questions. I'm just writing according to how a JW would look at it. We could add the Flying Spaghetti Monster equation and say that he noodled people into submission, forbidding people to believe in a God at all.

[propagandatechniques]

Yes, I'm aware of what you were doing. And what I was doing was trying to move the JW away from "Hobson's Choice", since they see everything bifurcated anyway. 1) He's a good person

2) He's an evil person.

3) Could he be somewhere in between?

[propagandatechniques]

Do you feel there should be laws against child labor, making children go bang on doors to pitch a 2.4 billion dollar a year corporation calling itself Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society? Are you willing to go on record saying you support the recruiting of small children to market this corporation?

[laffy4christ]

PROPAGANDA...

thx for ur comment about the child labor, time sheets, multi million $ corp. called the WTBTS.

I remember as a kid feeling SO PRESSURED to GET THOSE HOURS IN EVERY WEEK. IF YOU DIDNT HAVE HOURS TO REPORT U WERE LOOKED DOWN UPON, QUESTIONED EVENTUALLY, ETC.

I often thought as a kid "If we're to preach the Gospel, isn't supposed to be OUT OF LOVE and COMPASSION for people" not because I'm forced to?

Hmmmm? I wonder if JESUS gave his APOSTLES TIMESHEETS?!!

[propagandatechniques]

Hey Laffy,

I don't know if you realize it or not, but have you noticed that the JWs won't answer my question? These are the questions to keep asking them - the ones they will not answer. Their eyes must be doing the broken auto-focus routine that cognitive dissonance causes when they read it.

How in the world can anybody, even the most twisted JWs, support the practice of using children to promote a corporation? They don't see it as that, but when you ask them this way, they are forced to.

[QuestioningJW]

The word "organization" does NOT appear in the bible anywhere. Why do you JW's always use this as defense. If I had a nickel for everytime a JW said this I would be rich!

God has "people". Not an organization. Look in your bible. See how many times the phrase "his people' or "my people" appears in scripture. God's people are united by their faith in Christ. It is FAITH that earns people their "reward"---This is the whole context of the Greek Scriptures---not their alliegance to the WTBTS!

[jahfen0563]

okaaay, he has people and they are all scattered throughout christendom...smh.

[propagandatechniques]

When a JW says "organization" to you, repeat back to them "corporation" and keep reinforcing that idea. And then ask them how they personally feel "off the record" about a major billion dollar a year corporation pressuring parents to use their children to promote it.

This is important in breaking down that "organization" crap they stick to so diligently, poor bastards.

[customanalogue]

@QuestioningJW

No? Ephesians 1:10 use a word that basically means EXACTLY the same. Administration or dispensation.

The Mosaic Law, with a COMPLETE SET OF NATIONAL LAWS, everything from policing to hygene. It even included a CONSTITUTION!

Job 1:6 where the angels take their station.

Levitical Priesthood made up from 24 departments.

Description of the camp around the Tabernacle in the Wilderness was HIGHLY ORGANISED, had to be, some 2 million people.

Not liking "organisation" is an excuse!

[customanalogue]

@QuestioningJW

No? Ephesians 1:10 use a word that basically means EXACTLY the same. Administration or dispensation.

The Mosaic Law, with a COMPLETE SET OF NATIONAL LAWS, everything from policing to hygene. It even included a CONSTITUTION!

Job 1:6 where the angels take their station.

Levitical Priesthood made up from 24 departments.

Description of the camp around the Tabernacle in the Wilderness was HIGHLY ORGANISED, had to be, some 2 million people.

So LOTS of organisations in the Bible!

[jahfen0563]

Thank you for your concern.

[earnestlyseeking]

Good job! I'm seeing more and more how they fit the pattern. Especially since being disfellowshipped. Being totally ignored and treated as dead, by formerly close friends and Family members is not normal behavior. Jesus had issues with the scribes and Pharisees, but he didn't shun them. The way disfellowshipped people are treated in un-Christian. There's no way around it. ES

[altorstenlinton]

Great video Again bro

[james3v6]

Another way to spot a cult which has nothing to do with their belief system is to take notice of how they treat each other from the top down: dangerous, mind control cults use "socially acceptable coercive devices" to manipulate and control their members. Some of these devices are: gossip, ridicule, withdrawal of affection, "the cold shoulder," the SILENT treatment, or just plan rudeness and meanness. Tell me friends, have you experienced any of these treatments during your life as a JW?

[earnestlyseeking]

Very true.

[stronglogos]

great video 5 star

[nikki2christ]

100% A Cult!

[dadof2lilqueens]

All I have to say is that we as JW's are really good people. Its hard for me to try and debate you on facts from our literature and the mainstream terminology that we use in our everyday life. I have to agree on what you said in your opening dialogue regarding Cults as being the Jim Jones and David Koresh...because that is what we identified as being a cult. Never really got into the moonies thing. Wow...this is really a great video . I need to do more research ...thanks

[historyscoper]

They are a cult because they literally want you to drop out of the world and only associate with them, where you are told what to think and do for life, right or wrong. Visit jehovahswitless do weebly do com to break out of this horrible trap.

[middleman777]

I'm gonna get some heat for this one...I hope lol.

Let the truth reign...