Matthew 24: 29 "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, ................; 30 then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; 31 and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Luke 21: 36 Watch ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, that ye may be accounted WORTHY to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man...
Am I praying for an ESCAPE??? You Betcha!" I want to be an ESCAPE artist: )
How About you..
Lord I will be obedient to your word and I will pray Always to ESCAPE because because you told me to.
Regardless how you believe you better be praying this prayer so you too can escape as well
What about the scripture that says two are working in a field one is taken and the other is left how can two be working in a feild they would have to have a mark so that means that we would be taken before the tribulation.
@ada2step Matt 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days .. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: .. and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
@mrlantern23 The tares look like the wheat until it comes time to find the fruit at harvest. They have no fruit. The tares are the fruitless people in the church, the goats. They will be removed first. Then comes the harvest of the saints before the wrath of God which will be poured out upon the wicked. Fruitless Christians will be the first to be removed & burned "Not everyone who says to me LORD, LORD will enter the kingdom of God"!
@mrlantern23 No, your right. I just wanted to point out that the tares LOOK like wheat but have no fruit & are dealt with first. The wicked do not look like the wheat and they will be dealt with last.
God bless & hope you have had a wonderful Christmas & that your new year is filled with good fruit.
@ada2step Mt 24:39 And they did not know until the flood came and took them all away. So also will be the coming of the Son of man. Then two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.[QUESTION; Who was taken away with the flood, and who was kept b y His power?]
@ada2step If you read the preceding verses in Matt24:38&39,you will see that the context is one of Judgement not Rapture.The Rapture is spoken of in verses29-31.Matt 24 is written chronologically and should be read and understood as such.
The "RAPTURE" as it is being taught by the "blind guides" in the "churches of men" is false. There will be a GATHERING (A 2nd EXODUS:Isaiah 11, 65:9,22 &Jer. 30,31)
The rapture and Jesus second coming, are two separate prophetic events!
It doesn't matter what people think, and what they say! Nothing is going to change Gods plan. Heb. 6:18
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. That says at all! Amen. Praise the Lord.
The great tribulation... is the wrath of God! No question about it.
@paulojose1955 No contest here. Jesus returns twice! Jesus returns the 1st time to rapture the church & resurrect the dead. He takes them to the wedding supper of the Lamb while the 7 plagues of the wrath of God is poured out. I believe the wrath is a one day event. At the end of the one day wrath of God, Jesus returns with the saints to destroy the wicked & begin the 1,000 yr reign of Christ upon the Earth.
Rev. 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day,
Gods wrath was in the flood! who was taken and who was left ? same with sodom and gommorah,Who was taken and who was left ? same thing will be the two working in the field.the wicked are always taken and the rightoeuss are left ! READ YOUR BIBLE ! around 250,000 missionarys are killed every year. Read John 17:15 and Acts 21:13 what happened to 11 of the 12 apostles and JESUS! you better get ready!
@paulojose1955 I have identified 7 different applications of God's wrath. The 7 vials of God's wrath in the great tribulation is nothing in comparison to His eternal wrath upon those who reject Jesus as Lord and Saviour. THIS is His wrath in it's most severe expression. In 1 Thess. 5:9 Paul is talking about the two great destinies of man: Eternal Life or Eternal Destruction. One, God's eternal love the other His eternal wrath.
@freecounselingonline I read your front page "About me (you)". I agree with every word. I'm sorry you feel the way you do about me as I am very much in love with our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. I also believe in the rapture and that we will ALL be caught up to meet Jesus in the air. I simply believe it is at the LAST Trumpet 1 Cor 15:52 and AFTER the Tribulation Mt 24:29, which, of course is Biblical. I Love you in Christ Jesus & pray the Lord blesses you and smiles upon you always.
The pre-tribulation rapture is a false doctrine because God tests souls before he can accept them. Job is an example as well as the seeds in Jesus's parable. Revelations 4:20 clearly says that the faithful will be beheaded for their faith.
Good scriptural teaching on the when the "catching away" and "gathering together unto Him" aka the "rapture", happens. Thank you. Your sound message hasn't been tainted with the doctrines of man and is much appreciated.
If we get raptured into the clouds and then heaven, but then Jesus rules the earth for 1000 years, where to we end up on earth or in heaven? What do the scriptures say?
@mockerofscoffers Visit my web page. I show the scriptures & Biblical teaching of the pre-wrath, post -trib rapture, the wedding supper of the Lamb & the return of Christ with the saints to rule the Earth for 1000 yrs.
I believe in the pretrib rapture. Since you don't believe and it happens, does this mean you won't go up in it because you don't believe? Is not believing a sin to God? God bless.
@MamasitaDeVegas Salvation is through faith in Christ & repentance from sin. Scripture clearly shows a post-trib rapture but many have been taught to read into the scripture a pre-trib rapture idea which has brought confusion to many. This confusion is not sin although it can be cleared up by proper study of scripture. It is faith in Christ Jesus that saves the soul, not faith in the timing of the rapture.
THIS IS DANGEROUS! I apologize for the caps, but we are living in the end days and we can't be messing around with false information about the Love of Jesus Christ and His doctrine. To calm those of you down who are viewing this video, I assure you, if you are born again, you have ABSOLUTELY nothing to worry about as Christ will save His children from the Great Tribulation. Proof 1: God has ALWAYS protected His people when He would allow a great devastation to take place (continued below)
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, ...
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (the saints) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
RAPTURE: Jesus comes FOR His Saints as a thief (suddenly, quickly) when we LEAST expect Him (eating/drinking; marrying/giving in marriage; buying/selling; planting/building)
2ND COMING: nuclear war, boils from the sun, all oceans turn to blood/everything dies, plagues, all mountains/islands disappear, 100# hailstones, all greenery burned, massive earthquakes/starvation; satanic madmen cutting off people's heads...Jesus comes in Great Power & Glory WITH His Saints & EVERY eye will see Him
1 Thes. 5:4-5 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. [5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
@Crossbearer83 I thank you for your very polite way of speaking to me. You are a gem & I appreciate it. Many Post-Tribbers on this site are foul mouth, vulgar & for what reason? The PMs I receive & the postings on my Channel are absolutely disgusting & I have to say I don't believe they belong to the Lord. The timing of the Rapture is NOT a Soul-Damning Doctrine. Jesus IS going to come for His FAITHFUL Church when He's ready for us. However, if you don't mind I would like to PM you back OK?
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Agreed! It is not a soul damning doctrine. It is, however, a dangerous doctrine for those with weak faith who will fall away when the antichrist is revealed & no one has been raptured as promised by PreT'ers. Yet, for those who love the Lord to the very end, this doctrine is a fruitless argument.
2 Thes. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
@Crossbearer83 Please read Matthew 25:1-13. Knowing that the 10 Virgins are Believers in Jesus Christ & that the Bridegroom is Jesus, you will be able to understand 2Thessalonians 5:4-5 Many people think Matthew 25:36-51 is about the punishment that the people of Noah's days suffered; however, it is not. Apply the same logic. WATCH FOR JESUS, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHEN HE'S COMING...God Bless
jesus said in matthew " after the tribulation" paul wrote that the day of the lord and our gathering onto to Him cannot come till after the anti christ has stepped into the temple.how can anyone believe the pre trib teachings?
While there could be a pretrib rapture the multitudes of us will not be part of it. Flee from the cities to the countryside and mountains and avoid the mark of the beast. You must be wise and have a plan and a place to go. Contact Biospharms for more info on sustainable off the grid tropical farms for Christian families.
Mark 9:1 says it was supposed to have happened in biblical days. Camping says May 21, but now in October. Won't happen then either. No matter how long we wait, it will always be in the future.
Just comparing scripture in response to your Video. Job 2:31 says terrible day of the Lord. And Acts 2;20 says notable day of the Lord. I believe this will be a notable day for the church, like peter said, and not a terrible one for those who are walking in darkness, 1 Thessalonians 5:4. After all the bible teaches about the Lord coming back with His saints, Jude 14, Revelation 19:14. The bible does teach a pot trib rapture for the church. Seems the bible teaches on more than one rapture....
@Crossbearer83 No, the book of daniel has not been fulfilled yet. And also Revelation proves the great tribulation too, Daniel and Revelation are talking about the same thing. There will be a great multitude coming out of the great tribulation (rev7) but they are not to be confused with the saints that have been raptured prior to the 7 year trib. We disagree, you and I aren't going to convince each other. God bless you, Brother.
@TheKJVberean Your right. You have been to deeply indoctrinated to convince you otherwise. If you ever wish to really investigate the issue, my web pages are very detailed. I love you brother and pray that you are as fervent in preaching the message of salvation through Jesus Christ as you are on this issue (and I trust you do). In Christ,
@Crossbearer83 I just visited your website, I didn't realize you don't believe there will be 7 years of great tribulation. Your theology is way out of biblical perameters. You have to deny a lot of clear scripture to come up with your theology, and twist them out of context. Whether you believe it or not, there will be a 7 year tribulation to follow after the rapture, look at the condition of the church (apostate) and whats going on in the world today. Either you have much ignorance or arrogance
@TheKJVberean It is clear you are not willing to investigate. The 7 yr trib idea comes from ONLY 1 verse of scripture (In Daniel), one that has already been fulfilled. Seeing that you are not willing to look further, we really don't have much we can discuss.
Someone please provide the scripture that supports a 7 year tribulation. I have searched and searched and it is not in the bible. Neither is there any support for a pre trib rapture. Everything that I have read clearly states that we will be here for the tribulation.
@Crossbearer83 You're ignoring all of the other scripture I gave you. You can't just take matthew to prove your theology, read the rest of the new testament. I presented it clearly to you. When Christ said that through much tribulation we shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven he wasnt talking about the great tribulation which is to judge the world of their sin and to restore isreal. Rightly divide the word of truth. Post trib fails in so many ways.
@TheKJVberean I believe that you too fail to acknowledge many scriptures. I have a link to my web page noted on the video for you to review. Review it then we can talk.
@Crossbearer83 Matthew 24:29-31 is talking about the Second Coming after the tribulation (as you know). But read Matthew 24:38-42 it's talking about the rapture. Christ always talks about the signs of the last days and then the tribulation and second coming, then will talk about the rapture afterwards in matthew mark and luke. Matthew chapter 25 is the parable of the ten virgins, 5 were taken and 5 were left. Its talking about the rapture that we must all be ready and have the oil of Holy Ghost.
I don't buy your philospohy. The elect are the saints.... period! There is only one rapture, not two! Matthew 24:29-42 is all one event. THE LAST TRUMPET !
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMPET:
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they shall gather together his elect
Please don't give me the heretical doctrine of different trumpets. The LAST trumpet is the LAST trumpet!
@Crossbearer83 No, I'm saying the born again spirit filled christians arent going to go through the tribulation. Its a pretrib rapture. Luke 21:36 proves it and so do many others.
@TheKJVberean Can you show me exactly the scripture that says that the saints will be raptured before the tribulation?
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
@Crossbearer83@MrTrucker40 Luke 21:36 Jesus is addressing those who alive and living to see His return. He wouldnt tell the dead in Christ to pray that they be accounted worthy to escape the trib, whoever had faith in Christ and died will be resurrected at the trump of God you cant pray when your already dead. He is addressing those who are living for when He shall appear in the clouds. Rapture will be before the tribulation.
Luke21:7.And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?Luke21:36.Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Amen Brother, Walter Martin does an excellent message on this issue too, Remember him? I would love to send you a copy of his message, he was the original bible answer man. He did a message that cannot be refuted that the church will go thru the great tribulation.
But as in the days of Noe,......they married wives and were given in marriage....they ate they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded...EVEN THUS SHALL IT BE IN THE DAY WHEN THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED!!! (emphasis mine) Luke 17:26-30 He must be revealed in a time BEFORE the Great Tribulation because that time will be a time worse than any in history. Things won't be "normal". He will be revealed "with the trump of God" and we will meet Him in the clouds before the Tribulation
@chefjimmie1 You are falling for your own assumptions, Christians did that during the second world war in Germany. In the churches there, when the trains went passed, they just sung their hymns louder so they could drown out the cries of the people locked up in the carriages. What I'm getting at is, things can be going crazy all around them, but still they blocked out the truth, (not all, but some) and carried on as if nothing had happened, marriage etc.. this time it will be on a global scale
A lot of these cults using TaNaKh prophecies don't understand Hebrew or any Jewish background. Even most Christians make the same mistake but I like this video. Baruch HaShem, G-d bless.
You would think the desire to go through the tribulation would be as popular as the desire to jump into a pit filled with vipers and broken glass. As illogical as it may seem, there appears to be a large number of Christians that fully expect to get roughed up before Christ returns. Many Christians argue strongly for the right to suffer persecution at the hands of the Antichrist and the one world government.
@Crossbearer83 What about "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev 3:10)?
@Bhatch2007 Please take note as to whom this was written. See verse 7. These admonitions to the 7 church's were written to the people of these church's in John's day. If you would like a list of scholars who believe the same as I do, ask & I will list them. If you buy into the "Church Age" idea, please note that this church age was supposed to be 1648-1900 according to Tim LaHaye, which would still make this an event that is now passed!
@Crossbearer83 Excuse my ignorance but who is that? But anyway here's my beef, regardless of EITHER theory, you're still supposed to be living Holy and Christ-like until Christ's return, right or wrong? So if it's pre-trib then you get raptured, if it's post trib just fight it out to the end. Why condemn one or the other if you're living the way your supposed to? I'm hoping for a pre-trib but if that's not true then I'm waging war with the devil. Do you understand what I'm saying?
@Bhatch2007 Tim LaHaye wrote the "Left Behind" series of books & movies which has been a major influence on promoting the Pre-Trib doctrine the past 20-30 years. You are completely correct. We should live Holy. However, 2 Thess 2:3 reveals that many Christians will depart from the faith. I personally believe the pre-trib doctrine is NOT preparing the church to endure persecution. I trust many pre-tribbers will lose faith when the Antichrist is reveled & NO ONE is raptured? No condemnation!
@Crossbearer83 Lol. Like I just told somebody else you should hope for the best and prepare for the worst. We don't know what's going to happen, we just have to wait for it to happen. Hope for a rapture and prepare for a tribulation.
@Bhatch2007 That would be nice, except that I cannot find a single scripture that says we will be raptured before the tribulation. The pre-trib rapture is wishful thinking with NO scriptural substance while the post-trib rapture is clearly declared by the very words of Christ.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect
@Crossbearer83 To further add to this, can you imagine all the preachers, especially the television preachers, who promote pre - trib so heavily, and all their die hard supporters who hang off all their words!! buying book after book, instead of reading the bible! What will happen to them? what will they say? what will the people think? will they choose another lie just to escape possible physical pain? be prepared to stretch out your hands and help them through!! they'll need it I garrantee it
@Bhatch2007 One is the default, the other is a theory, however your right, we're to live as Christ lived, the best we can, but be aware, we are warned, and to watch out regarding false doctrines. The devil is a million times smarter then you and I, every day he works to deceive us, and uses the bible to do it. For if one is the truth, then the other MUST BE A LIE! and that is a problem, you cant just shrug your shoulders and say; right or wrong who cares! Do you understand what I'm saying??
The idea of the Christ being unable to return until the 7th (Angel's trumpet) defies the doctrine of imminence. Meaning when Jesus said he could come at any moment he lied. Cuz infact, if he is bound by a certain event, he is unable. His returning to set foot on the ground for all eyes to see is told as easily anticipatory, but his comments of imminency necessitate no predetermined boundaries.
@DrummerBoi181 Could you give me the verse where Jesus said he could come at any time and that his coming is imminent? I know people teach that but I don't see Jesus saying that. I see where he gave the disciples a list of signs that will precede his coming, but nothing that says his coming is imminent. We always need to be ready, as if we aren't watching for the signs it will take us by surprise like a thief, but I don't see where he talk imminence. Can you give me those verses?
It's very sad that so many people counting on being whisked away prior to any condemnation or tribulation. There are so many false "biblical" beliefs that are not true, just a bunch of religious doctrines that had nothing to do with the actual Word of God or Messiah. :o\
According to 2 Thessalonians 2, the rapture must occur AFTER two things. 1) a great falling away and 2) the Antichrist must be revealed. According do Daniel 9:27 the Antichrist is revealed when he breaks the 7 year peace treaty with Israel. So, if you believe the bible, the rapture must occur AFTER the abomination of desolation which 100% rules out pre trib rapture theory!
Crossbearer83, what I'm particularly looking for is any verses that specifically describe the church being taken up into heaven in the rapture. I have yet to find it.
@harmono I agree. John's Revelation simply doesn't give a clear cut description of the saints being raptured. Rev. 14:14-16 is the only place where it seems to be pointing to the rapture followed by the Wrath of God, but you are correct in stating that the clarity of the event is not described.
@Crossbearer83 I think the assumption that the rapture takes the elect to heaven is based on a gross misinterpretation fo the narrative of John being caught up into heaven. They say John is a symbol of the church. That is quite a stretch since Peter is a pretty good symbol of the church "upon this rock I will build my church". Too many people "read in" (eisogesis) into scripture what they want to believe. Few people read the scripture for what it is.
@harmono Although I disagree with pre-tribbers idea that Rev. 4:1 is the rapture as this was clearly directed to John alone, I DO believe the saints will go to heaven in Rev. 14:14-16, enjoy the wedding supper of the Lamb during God's Wrath (which I believe is a 1 day event), and then return with Jesus at the end of the 7 plagues to begin his millennial reign. My web site gives the details of the events in order.
Isn't Revelation 14:14-16 talking about the wrath of God?
Revelation 14:19 KJV And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
@Crossbearer83 Ok, I see what you mean, however, it doesn't mention what happens to the first harvest. There is only one distinction and that is one is a gathering of the clusters of the vine, and the other is the harvest of the earth. It does not mention what happens to this harvest. I could not say for sure it's a rapture, put that's something I'll look into.
I have yet to find ANY other verse in Rev that shows the rapture. (Chapter 4 is speaking to John, NOT the rapture)
Please note there are two different words used in Ch 14. One is “reap”, the other is “gather”. A word study reveals a distinct difference.
Those were reaped are in Rev. 15:2-3.
May I encourage you also to compare the coming of Christ “IN THE CLOUDS” of Matt Ch 24:30, 1 Thess Ch 4:17 & this scripture in Rev. 14:14. Could it be the same event?
@Crossbearer83 I just read the Bible for what it says. I don't see anything in there about a rapture of a Church. I see a sharp sickle being used in both cases. There are two events, one is a harvest which is a form of gathering, and the other is another kind of gathering, something about "to dry" ripe fruit. So when the descriptive language is introduced talking about the grapes being ripe, the appropriate word for grape harvesting is used. One says harvest of the earth.
@Crossbearer83 Well perhaps if there is that is it. It sure is hidden though. Doesn't say "harvest of the saints" or anything like that and that wrath context right after that makes it sound like it's about wrath. But that one parable of the wheat and tares may be what this is talking about.
If you wish to stay and go into the seven years.I hope you change your mind.Have the mind of Christ.Rev 4 looks to be the Rapture .We will see.Come Lord Jesus!Which set of horns will it be?
@moomman89 I don't think any one of us has the choice to stay or go whether it is pre or post trib rapture. When Jesus returns, ALL that belong to him are going. However, it is the truth that we seek. I don't see any rapture in Rev 4. Only John the beloved being taken to see the heavenly vision nearly 2000 years ago. The only rapture I can find in the book of Rev is chapter 14:14-16. There simply is NO pre-tribulation rapture noted in the scriptures.
Hey, now if by any chance we do get rapture out before all of the evil things come upon us, hallelulia, but if we don't what on earth are we going to do, that's why I couldn't give a care in the world about pre-trib, because there would be no reason the only thing you would have to do is prepare, for what is to come, and to me, what will come. There is no problem in preparing, because what if you are wrong?
@Crossbearer83 Please read the word carefully. He is only coming back at the end. When you say that he is coming back 2 more times, that is wrong. He is only coming back 1 time.
@kittykat32254 I suppose I can reply with the same comment to you. Read the word carefully... Jesus comes on the clouds to rapture the church in Rev 14:14-16, the same clouds as described in Matthew 24:29-31 & 1 Thess. 4:15-17. He then takes the saints to heaven for the wedding supper in Rev chapter 19 & then returns with the resurrected saints at the end of Chapter 19 to begin the millennial reign on the Earth. It is the second return that He stands upon the Earth.
Oh, the first False "Jesus" will be coming in the sky, but it won't be Him. They are planning on doing a fake rapture with Holograms and everything. Many people will die but they won't be real Christians.
@josiahdallas I don't know what scripture verse you get this idea from! Can you point me the scripture that declares a false Jesus coming in the sky with a fake rapture with holograms?
There will be false Christ's & false prophets, but none that I know of that fit your view.
videos going around about May 21,2011 the RAPTURE DAY.to many of us this is ridiculous,coz Jesus stated NO ONE KNOW the day and the hour. but to many OTHERS they BELIEVE in this May 21,2011 RAPTURE DAY.and this is very DANGEROUS coz who knows some of them if NOTHING happen on that day may very well COMIT SUICIDE, and its OURS(christians) duty to tell about this things by writings comments on those videos, God bless.
no one could ever know if people are more worthy to flee judgement when Jesus christ himself was tormented severly. What makes all these people better then Jesus, Saints, and others to not escape persecution for faith.
So what your saying is that ,we will see the plagues brough on to those whom accept the mark of the beast. The swarms of locust with heads of lions or something like that and all that other stuff?
@lovecapella Scared of what? The 3 other people who will read your comments? I'm trying to send you to my web site where you can get a clear picture of the end days sequence. However, you refuse to do so. In light of this, I feel our conversation is going nowhere & I really have a ton of other things to do that are more important that disputing with you. May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you & lead you into all truth!
@lovecapella Your entire explanation is confused. The tribulation is not God's judgment. The Wrath of God follows the tribulation which ends with the rapture. Pre-trib doctrine tries to make the tribulation & God's Wrath one & the same. This is error & I show the scriptural truth on my web site. However, I am now convinced you have no interest in researching this issue & there simply is not enough space here to detail the facts. May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you richly!
@lovecapella I love how the pre-tribbers like to twist the gospel message to fit their error. Its interesting that pre-tribbers assume that Jesus would devote 3 gospels to tell his disciples the details of the rapture of rebellious Israel & say nothing about the rapture of his beloved saints to whom he was speaking. If your serious about investigating this topic, you will go to my web page noted on the video. What does it profit you to hold onto a doctrinal lie?
@Crossbearer83 There is only ONE rapture. It will be for the saints "Jew & Gentile". Rebellious Israelis who refuse to surrender to Christ, will be destroyed at the brightness of the coming of the LORD. 5 virgins are taken, the other 5 are left behind. They don't have a "Second" chance!
In every case of teaching the pretrib myth notice how God's Word is added to and reasoned out and twisted to sound like it is in there. One instance is saying there is 2 last trumps. Last means NO MORE. There is only ONE second coming. He sits at the right hand of the Father till He makes His enemies His footstool.Mt 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation,,Mt 24:31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
@crossbearer83 my theory is that we are reigning now. i put rev 20:4-6 with rev 1:5-6 where it says Jesus hath made us kings and priests(hath being past tense). also i notice u didnt reference what i said about luke 17:28-30 verse 29 says "But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all" then 30 says "Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" notice Jesus himself said that it will be the "same day"
No contest here. However, you might read Zechariah chapter 14 in full. It tells about that day & the remnant of the wicked on earth who survive God's wrath to be ruled over by the resurrected saints who were beheaded ut raised to life again!
@Crossbearer83 Are you saying then that those who take the mark of the beast will go into the millenual period to experience God's goodness and grace? If one takes Zechariah as you say, then there is a huge problem because the scriptures contridicts itself. The wicked as you say are those who took the mark of the beast. Now John is quite clear that anyone who takes the mark will be destroyed when Jesus comes back. So how can the wicked have a second chance when no one else was able to have one?
Negative! I personally believe that those who survive are children. Those whom have not yet sinned against the Lord nor have taking the Mark. God bless!
@Crossbearer83 i have studied it in depth. my idea that we are in the thousand yr reign is just a theory btw that`s y i said i think we are in it now. and i didnt claim that to be in the 1000 yr reign means that resurrected saints are ruling now. at least not the physically resurrected. if u keep reading rev 20 it goes on to say that the 1000 yr reign happens during the first resurrection. the first resurrection is when a person gets saved. they become spiritually alive or born again
Just as u gave scripture for others to read, i suggest reading these also. matt 24:37-39 also luke 17:26-30 those verses compare the stories of Noah and Lot to the coming of Jesus. as soon as the righteous escaped, then God destroyed the rest. it`s telling us that God will destroy the earth as soon as christians are taken out. as for the thousand year reign i believe that we are in it now. rev 20 proves it
@littlebigronnie386 Thank you for your comment! I agree with the scriptures on Noah's flood. However, I disagree that we are now in the 1,000 yr reign of Christ. Read chapter 19 where the resurrected saints (Rev. 20:4) return with Christ after the wedding supper to begin their reign with him and the wicked are destroyed at his coming. No resurrected saints are ruling the earth today nor is Christ ruling from Jerusalem as yet.
it is dangerous to not be prepared just incase we must die for our belief. plus noah was saved through the flood not from it. . best to be prepared pray for strength to endure whatever we must go through. just incase! many would lose faith completely if not raptured out
What I find interesting is that Enoch was raptured and Enoch was the first Preacher according to Jude 14 and Jewish tradition. Enoch can mean "to induct". He walked with God, preached and hadn´t to go through the wrath (flood) like Noah. So maybe Enoch is a type for the Church?!
@Chrilsama I'm not sure I understand your point! The Wrath of God follows the tribulation. The saints will be raptured after the tribulation - yet before the wrath of God. See Rev chapter 14!
Excellent video brother. I hope more wake unto the truth. I was pre trib for many many years. Only when I really started to look with an open mind, prayed and asked the father for clarity is when it became clear. I don't even see why it has to be a debate. I think a true Chritian will be doing as the father said in Mat 24. Watching the signs, then in Luke.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
I loved your first comments! Most of our time should be spent on learning how to live righteously, and do as we are told. This doctrine pre mid or post and other variations are areas of easy division to the church. I beleive in preaching the 7 year tribulation and how to watch for it, to be aware of the season. This will ready the Bride, bur arguments for different times just brings division.
2 Tim. 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
@Crossbearer83 And obviously there are various verses which sound like they support many differing viewpoints. Just like you said about OT prophesy. My point was and is, if we concentrate on nowing the season, i.e. 7 year period, or if you don't agree with that than go with "endtimes". The point is we can be in unity about being real practicing Christians in word and in deeds especially as we see the signs of the timnes.
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
It is a good thing to search the scriptures for answers. I personally don't buy into the 7 year trib doctrine. Daniel 9:27 fulfilled the 490 year prophecy in the days of Christ. I don't buy the "gap" theory saying God erred on this prophecy!
Also we find in Revelation chapter 3 the letter to Philadelphia. "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." This was the promise to Philadelphia, the church who while weak, had not denied Jesus' name and had kept His word. This is a promise to all who do the same. You will be kept from the trials if you keep his word and do not deny Jesus' name. 1st-trials-> then-wrath.
The Greek scriptures were translated into "rapturo" (latin) from "harpazo" (greek) And harpazo means to snatch up eagerly or to snatch out of danger for one's self. So read the bible in greek or latin and you'll find rapturo, which is rapture, which came from harpazo which has the same meaning as rapture. Rapture- not scriptural, Harpazo, yes. The meaning of the word rapture is in the context of scripture. So yes, there will be a rapture. A "snatching up"
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
@receivejesusnow ???? Can you show me what scripture you are using?
Mat 24:29-31 Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days
[ ] he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
@Crossbearer83 Mat 24:29-31 This is not the same as 1 Thess 4:16/17 which is clearly speaking of THE TRUMP OF GOD.. and Matthew 24:29 - 31 is speaking of "A TRUMPET". This event in Matthew has to do with God delivering Israel..the jews. The Bride of Christ will be removed and only after the removal of the Bride can God turn His attention back onto Israel.Matthew has to do with the nation of Israel.The church and nation of Israel are distinct.
@0871368021 Poor reasoning! Could you show me, without any question, in the book of Matthew, the scripture that clearly shows the rapture of the Christians so that we can disqualify vs 29-31 from actually being Christians?
@Crossb i dont agree. But thank you for your comment. The Trump of God has to do with the feasts of the Lord. and the event Jesus Christ is speaking of in Matthew also corresponds with a different feast of the Lord.. Why do you say my reasoning is poor when I mention that i believe God has not finished with the nation of Israel (the very nation existing today) and that the Bride/Church is not the same yet the Bride and Israel- jews are all called the elect of God.God is dealing with 2 types.
The Last Trump is the Last trump - regardless what you call it!
Once again, can you show me where the book of Matthew CLEARLY shows the rapture of the Christian church before chapter 24 so that we can disqualify the elect shown to be the Christian church? Are you aware the NT shows the Christian church to be called "the elect?"
The rapture of Matthew 24:29-31 includes both the Jewish & the Gentile believers BOTH at the same time! WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED....AT THE LAST TRUMP!
@Crossbearer83 i dont agree that it's the church / Bride (jew and gentile) that is raptured Matt 24:29-31. I believe this to be about those who descend from Abraham Isaac and Jacob - God's Elect. We are a different kettle of fish altogether... we are the Bride of Christ.(HIS Elect also but we play a different part)..Jacobs Trouble is not for us.. it's for the 12 Tribes of Israel..
How can the "last trumpet" spoken of by Paul possibly be the 7th trumpet of Revelation? That prophecy did not exist at the time Paul wrote to the Corinithians. Of course you could speculate that Paul had a similar vision, or something like that, but there is nothing in the scripture to back that up.
There are other trumpets mentioned in the Bible. In fact, the "first trumpet" mentioned in the Bible was used to gather the Israelites in order to sanctify them, not to send judgement.
That is a common arguement by pre-tribbers. However, when Paul spoke of the LAST trumpet, he certainly DID know the words of Christ:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The LAST trumpet is "Immediately AFTER the tribulation"......
Bible clearly says, it will be like it was in the days of Noah & Lot, some saved, the rest destroyed.
Martha said to Jesus, Lord, I know he will rise again in the "resurrection" RAPTURE" on the "LAST" day.
NOTICE: resurrection/last day
NO DAYS AFTERWARDS like Noah & Lot
READ II Peter:
When he comes as a thief in the night the earth is also destroyed.
No days left after the resurrection on the LAST day like Martha said.
He will destroy un Godly with brightness of his coming..
grindigmajestic 1 week ago
Matthew 24: 29 "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, ................; 30 then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; 31 and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
joseymaru 2 weeks ago
@joseymaru
I don't think it can get any clearer then that. The order matches what Paul tells us.
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
We are at the 2nd trumpet now, I see them in the sky(Heaven), the Lord maketh his Angels Spirits. I've trumpets seen 1 and 2.
hideaway33 1 month ago
All I can say is Amen!
Absynthe12 1 month ago
Repent of your disbelief now. Time is running out for you.
MinWilliamJosephWWM 1 month ago
The answer is in" THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN"" that should tell you that they went THROUGH SOMETHING 'tribulation".
douglasdolly 1 month ago
Luke 21: 36 Watch ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, that ye may be accounted WORTHY to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man...
Am I praying for an ESCAPE??? You Betcha!" I want to be an ESCAPE artist: )
How About you..
Lord I will be obedient to your word and I will pray Always to ESCAPE because because you told me to.
Regardless how you believe you better be praying this prayer so you too can escape as well
bubba007sss 2 months ago
@bubba007sss lmbo Amen
ChildOfGod389 1 month ago
What about the scripture that says two are working in a field one is taken and the other is left how can two be working in a feild they would have to have a mark so that means that we would be taken before the tribulation.
ada2step 2 months ago
@ada2step Matt 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days .. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: .. and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Crossbearer83 2 months ago
@ada2step Consider that scripture in light of Matt. 13:30.
mrlantern23 1 month ago
@mrlantern23 The tares look like the wheat until it comes time to find the fruit at harvest. They have no fruit. The tares are the fruitless people in the church, the goats. They will be removed first. Then comes the harvest of the saints before the wrath of God which will be poured out upon the wicked. Fruitless Christians will be the first to be removed & burned "Not everyone who says to me LORD, LORD will enter the kingdom of God"!
Crossbearer83 1 month ago
@Crossbearer83 Yeah I agree but I also think that Satan has seed outside of God's people - i.e. unbelievers. Though I could be wrong.
mrlantern23 1 month ago
@mrlantern23 No, your right. I just wanted to point out that the tares LOOK like wheat but have no fruit & are dealt with first. The wicked do not look like the wheat and they will be dealt with last.
God bless & hope you have had a wonderful Christmas & that your new year is filled with good fruit.
Crossbearer83 1 month ago
@Crossbearer83 Thank you. Praise God!
mrlantern23 1 month ago
@mrlantern23 Thank you. Praise God.
mrlantern23 1 month ago
@ada2step Mt 24:39 And they did not know until the flood came and took them all away. So also will be the coming of the Son of man. Then two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.[QUESTION; Who was taken away with the flood, and who was kept b y His power?]
GodsSeer 1 month ago
@ada2step If you read the preceding verses in Matt24:38&39,you will see that the context is one of Judgement not Rapture.The Rapture is spoken of in verses29-31.Matt 24 is written chronologically and should be read and understood as such.
samuelamos1 1 month ago
All by design of course,Satan wants people to blame God when they are not taken,he will attack the pre-trib rapture beleivers using that subject.
creations78 2 months ago
The "RAPTURE" as it is being taught by the "blind guides" in the "churches of men" is false. There will be a GATHERING (A 2nd EXODUS:Isaiah 11, 65:9,22 &Jer. 30,31)
themanningsjdsjjj 2 months ago
Excellent Biblical teaching Brother. Thank you for this video. It's an important message that all Saints need to hear.
RMCDisciple 2 months ago
The rapture and Jesus second coming, are two separate prophetic events!
It doesn't matter what people think, and what they say! Nothing is going to change Gods plan. Heb. 6:18
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. That says at all! Amen. Praise the Lord.
The great tribulation... is the wrath of God! No question about it.
paulojose1955 3 months ago
@paulojose1955 No contest here. Jesus returns twice! Jesus returns the 1st time to rapture the church & resurrect the dead. He takes them to the wedding supper of the Lamb while the 7 plagues of the wrath of God is poured out. I believe the wrath is a one day event. At the end of the one day wrath of God, Jesus returns with the saints to destroy the wicked & begin the 1,000 yr reign of Christ upon the Earth.
Rev. 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day,
Crossbearer83 2 months ago
@paulojose1955
Gods wrath was in the flood! who was taken and who was left ? same with sodom and gommorah,Who was taken and who was left ? same thing will be the two working in the field.the wicked are always taken and the rightoeuss are left ! READ YOUR BIBLE ! around 250,000 missionarys are killed every year. Read John 17:15 and Acts 21:13 what happened to 11 of the 12 apostles and JESUS! you better get ready!
zatoisafake 2 months ago
@paulojose1955 I have identified 7 different applications of God's wrath. The 7 vials of God's wrath in the great tribulation is nothing in comparison to His eternal wrath upon those who reject Jesus as Lord and Saviour. THIS is His wrath in it's most severe expression. In 1 Thess. 5:9 Paul is talking about the two great destinies of man: Eternal Life or Eternal Destruction. One, God's eternal love the other His eternal wrath.
mrlantern23 1 month ago
amen by brother I agree 100% no the saints are deceived
urgentmissionrecords 3 months ago
Sheep and Goats shows you-- heretic
freecounselingonline 3 months ago
@freecounselingonline I read your front page "About me (you)". I agree with every word. I'm sorry you feel the way you do about me as I am very much in love with our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. I also believe in the rapture and that we will ALL be caught up to meet Jesus in the air. I simply believe it is at the LAST Trumpet 1 Cor 15:52 and AFTER the Tribulation Mt 24:29, which, of course is Biblical. I Love you in Christ Jesus & pray the Lord blesses you and smiles upon you always.
Crossbearer83 3 months ago
@freecounselingonline shows what?
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
The pre-tribulation rapture is a false doctrine because God tests souls before he can accept them. Job is an example as well as the seeds in Jesus's parable. Revelations 4:20 clearly says that the faithful will be beheaded for their faith.
AlexKenas 4 months ago 5
@AlexKenas Amen!!!!
960Terra 2 months ago
@AlexKenas You mean Rev 20:4. There is no Rev 4:20.
mrlantern23 1 month ago
Good scriptural teaching on the when the "catching away" and "gathering together unto Him" aka the "rapture", happens. Thank you. Your sound message hasn't been tainted with the doctrines of man and is much appreciated.
Harvesttime144 4 months ago
If we get raptured into the clouds and then heaven, but then Jesus rules the earth for 1000 years, where to we end up on earth or in heaven? What do the scriptures say?
mockerofscoffers 5 months ago
@mockerofscoffers Visit my web page. I show the scriptures & Biblical teaching of the pre-wrath, post -trib rapture, the wedding supper of the Lamb & the return of Christ with the saints to rule the Earth for 1000 yrs.
Crossbearer83 5 months ago
I believe in the pretrib rapture. Since you don't believe and it happens, does this mean you won't go up in it because you don't believe? Is not believing a sin to God? God bless.
MamasitaDeVegas 5 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas Salvation is through faith in Christ & repentance from sin. Scripture clearly shows a post-trib rapture but many have been taught to read into the scripture a pre-trib rapture idea which has brought confusion to many. This confusion is not sin although it can be cleared up by proper study of scripture. It is faith in Christ Jesus that saves the soul, not faith in the timing of the rapture.
Crossbearer83 5 months ago 3
THIS IS DANGEROUS! I apologize for the caps, but we are living in the end days and we can't be messing around with false information about the Love of Jesus Christ and His doctrine. To calm those of you down who are viewing this video, I assure you, if you are born again, you have ABSOLUTELY nothing to worry about as Christ will save His children from the Great Tribulation. Proof 1: God has ALWAYS protected His people when He would allow a great devastation to take place (continued below)
prayforwisdom 6 months ago
@prayforwisdom
Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, ...
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (the saints) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Crossbearer83 5 months ago 2
@Crossbearer83 Amen!
960Terra 2 months ago
RAPTURE: Jesus comes FOR His Saints as a thief (suddenly, quickly) when we LEAST expect Him (eating/drinking; marrying/giving in marriage; buying/selling; planting/building)
2ND COMING: nuclear war, boils from the sun, all oceans turn to blood/everything dies, plagues, all mountains/islands disappear, 100# hailstones, all greenery burned, massive earthquakes/starvation; satanic madmen cutting off people's heads...Jesus comes in Great Power & Glory WITH His Saints & EVERY eye will see Him
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 I love you brother. we disagree but I love you.
1 Thes. 5:4-5 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. [5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Crossbearer83 6 months ago
@Crossbearer83 I thank you for your very polite way of speaking to me. You are a gem & I appreciate it. Many Post-Tribbers on this site are foul mouth, vulgar & for what reason? The PMs I receive & the postings on my Channel are absolutely disgusting & I have to say I don't believe they belong to the Lord. The timing of the Rapture is NOT a Soul-Damning Doctrine. Jesus IS going to come for His FAITHFUL Church when He's ready for us. However, if you don't mind I would like to PM you back OK?
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Agreed! It is not a soul damning doctrine. It is, however, a dangerous doctrine for those with weak faith who will fall away when the antichrist is revealed & no one has been raptured as promised by PreT'ers. Yet, for those who love the Lord to the very end, this doctrine is a fruitless argument.
2 Thes. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Crossbearer83 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1
Dear brother, tou must read the Word carefully and prayerfully.
let me ask you a question: Did God took Noah out of the earth before the flood?
Did God took Joseph out of his trials or through his trials?
Did God took Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego out of the fire or through?
Did God took Israel out of Egypt when the angel of death passed through or protect them in Egypt?
Over and over we see God mode of operation.
Consider and ponder.
God bless
hammerandnails777 4 months ago 2
@Crossbearer83 Please read Matthew 25:1-13. Knowing that the 10 Virgins are Believers in Jesus Christ & that the Bridegroom is Jesus, you will be able to understand 2Thessalonians 5:4-5 Many people think Matthew 25:36-51 is about the punishment that the people of Noah's days suffered; however, it is not. Apply the same logic. WATCH FOR JESUS, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHEN HE'S COMING...God Bless
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
jesus said in matthew " after the tribulation" paul wrote that the day of the lord and our gathering onto to Him cannot come till after the anti christ has stepped into the temple.how can anyone believe the pre trib teachings?
keeyk118b 7 months ago
While there could be a pretrib rapture the multitudes of us will not be part of it. Flee from the cities to the countryside and mountains and avoid the mark of the beast. You must be wise and have a plan and a place to go. Contact Biospharms for more info on sustainable off the grid tropical farms for Christian families.
biospharms 7 months ago
Mark 9:1 says it was supposed to have happened in biblical days. Camping says May 21, but now in October. Won't happen then either. No matter how long we wait, it will always be in the future.
k0smon 8 months ago
"We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." --Acts 14:22
The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth
itsallamindgame 8 months ago
Just comparing scripture in response to your Video. Job 2:31 says terrible day of the Lord. And Acts 2;20 says notable day of the Lord. I believe this will be a notable day for the church, like peter said, and not a terrible one for those who are walking in darkness, 1 Thessalonians 5:4. After all the bible teaches about the Lord coming back with His saints, Jude 14, Revelation 19:14. The bible does teach a pot trib rapture for the church. Seems the bible teaches on more than one rapture....
Trustandobey1 8 months ago
Interesting Bible study...
MrNlbc 8 months ago
@Crossbearer83 No, the book of daniel has not been fulfilled yet. And also Revelation proves the great tribulation too, Daniel and Revelation are talking about the same thing. There will be a great multitude coming out of the great tribulation (rev7) but they are not to be confused with the saints that have been raptured prior to the 7 year trib. We disagree, you and I aren't going to convince each other. God bless you, Brother.
TheKJVberean 9 months ago
@TheKJVberean Your right. You have been to deeply indoctrinated to convince you otherwise. If you ever wish to really investigate the issue, my web pages are very detailed. I love you brother and pray that you are as fervent in preaching the message of salvation through Jesus Christ as you are on this issue (and I trust you do). In Christ,
Brian
Crossbearer83 9 months ago
@Crossbearer83 I just visited your website, I didn't realize you don't believe there will be 7 years of great tribulation. Your theology is way out of biblical perameters. You have to deny a lot of clear scripture to come up with your theology, and twist them out of context. Whether you believe it or not, there will be a 7 year tribulation to follow after the rapture, look at the condition of the church (apostate) and whats going on in the world today. Either you have much ignorance or arrogance
TheKJVberean 9 months ago
@TheKJVberean It is clear you are not willing to investigate. The 7 yr trib idea comes from ONLY 1 verse of scripture (In Daniel), one that has already been fulfilled. Seeing that you are not willing to look further, we really don't have much we can discuss.
Crossbearer83 9 months ago
@Crossbearer83
Someone please provide the scripture that supports a 7 year tribulation. I have searched and searched and it is not in the bible. Neither is there any support for a pre trib rapture. Everything that I have read clearly states that we will be here for the tribulation.
shay5839 8 months ago
@Crossbearer83 You're ignoring all of the other scripture I gave you. You can't just take matthew to prove your theology, read the rest of the new testament. I presented it clearly to you. When Christ said that through much tribulation we shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven he wasnt talking about the great tribulation which is to judge the world of their sin and to restore isreal. Rightly divide the word of truth. Post trib fails in so many ways.
TheKJVberean 9 months ago
@TheKJVberean I believe that you too fail to acknowledge many scriptures. I have a link to my web page noted on the video for you to review. Review it then we can talk.
Crossbearer83 9 months ago
@Crossbearer83 Matthew 24:29-31 is talking about the Second Coming after the tribulation (as you know). But read Matthew 24:38-42 it's talking about the rapture. Christ always talks about the signs of the last days and then the tribulation and second coming, then will talk about the rapture afterwards in matthew mark and luke. Matthew chapter 25 is the parable of the ten virgins, 5 were taken and 5 were left. Its talking about the rapture that we must all be ready and have the oil of Holy Ghost.
TheKJVberean 9 months ago
@TheKJVberean
I don't buy your philospohy. The elect are the saints.... period! There is only one rapture, not two! Matthew 24:29-42 is all one event. THE LAST TRUMPET !
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMPET:
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they shall gather together his elect
Please don't give me the heretical doctrine of different trumpets. The LAST trumpet is the LAST trumpet!
Crossbearer83 9 months ago
@Crossbearer83 No, I'm saying the born again spirit filled christians arent going to go through the tribulation. Its a pretrib rapture. Luke 21:36 proves it and so do many others.
TheKJVberean 9 months ago
@TheKJVberean Can you show me exactly the scripture that says that the saints will be raptured before the tribulation?
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Crossbearer83 9 months ago
@Crossbearer83 @MrTrucker40 Luke 21:36 Jesus is addressing those who alive and living to see His return. He wouldnt tell the dead in Christ to pray that they be accounted worthy to escape the trib, whoever had faith in Christ and died will be resurrected at the trump of God you cant pray when your already dead. He is addressing those who are living for when He shall appear in the clouds. Rapture will be before the tribulation.
TheKJVberean 9 months ago
@TheKJVberean Re: Luke 21:36 Are you assuming that no Christian believers survive the Tribulation?
Crossbearer83 9 months ago
Good job brother...we're winning them back, to the classic church view..and preparing mens hearts for the second coming, with the beautiful truth!
GregVasquez777 9 months ago
@GregVasquez777 God bless you brother. Thank you for the posting.
Crossbearer83 9 months ago
Luke21:7.And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?Luke21:36.Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
MrTrucker40 9 months ago
@MrTrucker40
Every Christian that has died in the last 2,000 years has "escaped all these things that shall come to pass!"
Crossbearer83 9 months ago
Amen Brother, Walter Martin does an excellent message on this issue too, Remember him? I would love to send you a copy of his message, he was the original bible answer man. He did a message that cannot be refuted that the church will go thru the great tribulation.
jsrwade 9 months ago
But as in the days of Noe,......they married wives and were given in marriage....they ate they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded...EVEN THUS SHALL IT BE IN THE DAY WHEN THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED!!! (emphasis mine) Luke 17:26-30 He must be revealed in a time BEFORE the Great Tribulation because that time will be a time worse than any in history. Things won't be "normal". He will be revealed "with the trump of God" and we will meet Him in the clouds before the Tribulation
chefjimmie1 9 months ago
@chefjimmie1 You are falling for your own assumptions, Christians did that during the second world war in Germany. In the churches there, when the trains went passed, they just sung their hymns louder so they could drown out the cries of the people locked up in the carriages. What I'm getting at is, things can be going crazy all around them, but still they blocked out the truth, (not all, but some) and carried on as if nothing had happened, marriage etc.. this time it will be on a global scale
tredezbull 9 months ago
However the Lord decides to do it is fine with me.
cmchambers777 9 months ago
A lot of these cults using TaNaKh prophecies don't understand Hebrew or any Jewish background. Even most Christians make the same mistake but I like this video. Baruch HaShem, G-d bless.
Pinkindian1 10 months ago
Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
You would think the desire to go through the tribulation would be as popular as the desire to jump into a pit filled with vipers and broken glass. As illogical as it may seem, there appears to be a large number of Christians that fully expect to get roughed up before Christ returns. Many Christians argue strongly for the right to suffer persecution at the hands of the Antichrist and the one world government.
Bhatch2007 10 months ago
@Bhatch2007
Your right! The persecution of the saints is not a popular doctrine even though scripture clearly declares it! ITCHING EARS reject it! 2 Tim 4:3
Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
2 Tim. 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Rev. 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
@Crossbearer83 What about "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev 3:10)?
Bhatch2007 10 months ago
@Bhatch2007 Please take note as to whom this was written. See verse 7. These admonitions to the 7 church's were written to the people of these church's in John's day. If you would like a list of scholars who believe the same as I do, ask & I will list them. If you buy into the "Church Age" idea, please note that this church age was supposed to be 1648-1900 according to Tim LaHaye, which would still make this an event that is now passed!
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
@Crossbearer83 Excuse my ignorance but who is that? But anyway here's my beef, regardless of EITHER theory, you're still supposed to be living Holy and Christ-like until Christ's return, right or wrong? So if it's pre-trib then you get raptured, if it's post trib just fight it out to the end. Why condemn one or the other if you're living the way your supposed to? I'm hoping for a pre-trib but if that's not true then I'm waging war with the devil. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Bhatch2007 10 months ago
@Bhatch2007 Tim LaHaye wrote the "Left Behind" series of books & movies which has been a major influence on promoting the Pre-Trib doctrine the past 20-30 years. You are completely correct. We should live Holy. However, 2 Thess 2:3 reveals that many Christians will depart from the faith. I personally believe the pre-trib doctrine is NOT preparing the church to endure persecution. I trust many pre-tribbers will lose faith when the Antichrist is reveled & NO ONE is raptured? No condemnation!
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
@Crossbearer83 Lol. Like I just told somebody else you should hope for the best and prepare for the worst. We don't know what's going to happen, we just have to wait for it to happen. Hope for a rapture and prepare for a tribulation.
Bhatch2007 10 months ago
@Bhatch2007 That would be nice, except that I cannot find a single scripture that says we will be raptured before the tribulation. The pre-trib rapture is wishful thinking with NO scriptural substance while the post-trib rapture is clearly declared by the very words of Christ.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
@Crossbearer83 To further add to this, can you imagine all the preachers, especially the television preachers, who promote pre - trib so heavily, and all their die hard supporters who hang off all their words!! buying book after book, instead of reading the bible! What will happen to them? what will they say? what will the people think? will they choose another lie just to escape possible physical pain? be prepared to stretch out your hands and help them through!! they'll need it I garrantee it
tredezbull 9 months ago
@Bhatch2007 One is the default, the other is a theory, however your right, we're to live as Christ lived, the best we can, but be aware, we are warned, and to watch out regarding false doctrines. The devil is a million times smarter then you and I, every day he works to deceive us, and uses the bible to do it. For if one is the truth, then the other MUST BE A LIE! and that is a problem, you cant just shrug your shoulders and say; right or wrong who cares! Do you understand what I'm saying??
tredezbull 9 months ago
The idea of the Christ being unable to return until the 7th (Angel's trumpet) defies the doctrine of imminence. Meaning when Jesus said he could come at any moment he lied. Cuz infact, if he is bound by a certain event, he is unable. His returning to set foot on the ground for all eyes to see is told as easily anticipatory, but his comments of imminency necessitate no predetermined boundaries.
DrummerBoi181 10 months ago
@DrummerBoi181
Can you give me the exact scripture that points to the imminent "any moment" return of Christ?
Have you ever read 2 Thess 2:1-4 which establishes two events that must occur prior to Christ's return?
May I also remind you that His "imminent" return is now close to 2,000 years old!
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
@DrummerBoi181 Could you give me the verse where Jesus said he could come at any time and that his coming is imminent? I know people teach that but I don't see Jesus saying that. I see where he gave the disciples a list of signs that will precede his coming, but nothing that says his coming is imminent. We always need to be ready, as if we aren't watching for the signs it will take us by surprise like a thief, but I don't see where he talk imminence. Can you give me those verses?
conniemaew 10 months ago
@conniemaew there is none as far as I can tell
tredezbull 9 months ago
It's very sad that so many people counting on being whisked away prior to any condemnation or tribulation. There are so many false "biblical" beliefs that are not true, just a bunch of religious doctrines that had nothing to do with the actual Word of God or Messiah. :o\
TheYAHnitarian 10 months ago
According to 2 Thessalonians 2, the rapture must occur AFTER two things. 1) a great falling away and 2) the Antichrist must be revealed. According do Daniel 9:27 the Antichrist is revealed when he breaks the 7 year peace treaty with Israel. So, if you believe the bible, the rapture must occur AFTER the abomination of desolation which 100% rules out pre trib rapture theory!
Kinjaffa 10 months ago
Crossbearer83, what I'm particularly looking for is any verses that specifically describe the church being taken up into heaven in the rapture. I have yet to find it.
harmono 10 months ago
@harmono I agree. John's Revelation simply doesn't give a clear cut description of the saints being raptured. Rev. 14:14-16 is the only place where it seems to be pointing to the rapture followed by the Wrath of God, but you are correct in stating that the clarity of the event is not described.
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
@Crossbearer83 I think the assumption that the rapture takes the elect to heaven is based on a gross misinterpretation fo the narrative of John being caught up into heaven. They say John is a symbol of the church. That is quite a stretch since Peter is a pretty good symbol of the church "upon this rock I will build my church". Too many people "read in" (eisogesis) into scripture what they want to believe. Few people read the scripture for what it is.
harmono 10 months ago
@harmono Although I disagree with pre-tribbers idea that Rev. 4:1 is the rapture as this was clearly directed to John alone, I DO believe the saints will go to heaven in Rev. 14:14-16, enjoy the wedding supper of the Lamb during God's Wrath (which I believe is a 1 day event), and then return with Jesus at the end of the 7 plagues to begin his millennial reign. My web site gives the details of the events in order.
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
Isn't Revelation 14:14-16 talking about the wrath of God?
Revelation 14:19 KJV And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
harmono 10 months ago
@harmono
Negative! there are TWO sickles and TWO separate angels gathering TWO separate groups of people.
Verses 14-16 is the rapture, the reaping of the saints.
Verses 17-20 is the gathering of God's wrath.
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
@Crossbearer83 Ok, I see what you mean, however, it doesn't mention what happens to the first harvest. There is only one distinction and that is one is a gathering of the clusters of the vine, and the other is the harvest of the earth. It does not mention what happens to this harvest. I could not say for sure it's a rapture, put that's something I'll look into.
harmono 10 months ago
@harmono
I have yet to find ANY other verse in Rev that shows the rapture. (Chapter 4 is speaking to John, NOT the rapture)
Please note there are two different words used in Ch 14. One is “reap”, the other is “gather”. A word study reveals a distinct difference.
Those were reaped are in Rev. 15:2-3.
May I encourage you also to compare the coming of Christ “IN THE CLOUDS” of Matt Ch 24:30, 1 Thess Ch 4:17 & this scripture in Rev. 14:14. Could it be the same event?
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
@Crossbearer83 I just read the Bible for what it says. I don't see anything in there about a rapture of a Church. I see a sharp sickle being used in both cases. There are two events, one is a harvest which is a form of gathering, and the other is another kind of gathering, something about "to dry" ripe fruit. So when the descriptive language is introduced talking about the grapes being ripe, the appropriate word for grape harvesting is used. One says harvest of the earth.
harmono 10 months ago
@harmono Very well. Then there is NO scripture in the book of Revelation that shows the rapture of the church.
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
@Crossbearer83 Well perhaps if there is that is it. It sure is hidden though. Doesn't say "harvest of the saints" or anything like that and that wrath context right after that makes it sound like it's about wrath. But that one parable of the wheat and tares may be what this is talking about.
harmono 10 months ago
If you wish to stay and go into the seven years.I hope you change your mind.Have the mind of Christ.Rev 4 looks to be the Rapture .We will see.Come Lord Jesus!Which set of horns will it be?
moomman89 10 months ago
@moomman89 I don't think any one of us has the choice to stay or go whether it is pre or post trib rapture. When Jesus returns, ALL that belong to him are going. However, it is the truth that we seek. I don't see any rapture in Rev 4. Only John the beloved being taken to see the heavenly vision nearly 2000 years ago. The only rapture I can find in the book of Rev is chapter 14:14-16. There simply is NO pre-tribulation rapture noted in the scriptures.
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
Hey, now if by any chance we do get rapture out before all of the evil things come upon us, hallelulia, but if we don't what on earth are we going to do, that's why I couldn't give a care in the world about pre-trib, because there would be no reason the only thing you would have to do is prepare, for what is to come, and to me, what will come. There is no problem in preparing, because what if you are wrong?
suma41a 10 months ago
Whoa whoa stop.....did you say Revealtions? Go back and read the title of that book again please.
ProphetChaser 10 months ago
@ProphetChaser
AWESOME revelation! Forget the lesson, he misspelled a word! I love the critics!
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
@Crossbearer83 Please read the word carefully. He is only coming back at the end. When you say that he is coming back 2 more times, that is wrong. He is only coming back 1 time.
kittykat32254 10 months ago
@kittykat32254 I suppose I can reply with the same comment to you. Read the word carefully... Jesus comes on the clouds to rapture the church in Rev 14:14-16, the same clouds as described in Matthew 24:29-31 & 1 Thess. 4:15-17. He then takes the saints to heaven for the wedding supper in Rev chapter 19 & then returns with the resurrected saints at the end of Chapter 19 to begin the millennial reign on the Earth. It is the second return that He stands upon the Earth.
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
Oh, the first False "Jesus" will be coming in the sky, but it won't be Him. They are planning on doing a fake rapture with Holograms and everything. Many people will die but they won't be real Christians.
josiahdallas 10 months ago
@josiahdallas I don't know what scripture verse you get this idea from! Can you point me the scripture that declares a false Jesus coming in the sky with a fake rapture with holograms?
There will be false Christ's & false prophets, but none that I know of that fit your view.
Crossbearer83 10 months ago
@josiahdallas
Who are "they" that are planning a fake rapture?
ProphetChaser 10 months ago
I agree! We're soldiers we have tyo fight the good fight, and then hopefully we'll be taken. I think it's dangerous to have false hope like that.
sheronerose88 11 months ago
videos going around about May 21,2011 the RAPTURE DAY.to many of us this is ridiculous,coz Jesus stated NO ONE KNOW the day and the hour. but to many OTHERS they BELIEVE in this May 21,2011 RAPTURE DAY.and this is very DANGEROUS coz who knows some of them if NOTHING happen on that day may very well COMIT SUICIDE, and its OURS(christians) duty to tell about this things by writings comments on those videos, God bless.
tk291100 11 months ago
Solid stuff. Lots of scripture to back it up. Some of it is hard to understand, however, what things or period constitutes "God's wrath".
RobertMOdell 11 months ago
no one could ever know if people are more worthy to flee judgement when Jesus christ himself was tormented severly. What makes all these people better then Jesus, Saints, and others to not escape persecution for faith.
bass109 11 months ago
This post has truly blessed me, thank you!
TheGraceofChrist 11 months ago
"There's those clouds again" haha. Made me chuckle ^_^. Pretty good job here. This has helped support my recent studies. Thank you :)
PenguinifyYou 11 months ago
I've hard a hard life so I'm ready for anything... It doesn't matter to me! Bring it on. :-)
MrTubeToYouToo 11 months ago
So what your saying is that ,we will see the plagues brough on to those whom accept the mark of the beast. The swarms of locust with heads of lions or something like that and all that other stuff?
home5476 11 months ago
@lovecapella Scared of what? The 3 other people who will read your comments? I'm trying to send you to my web site where you can get a clear picture of the end days sequence. However, you refuse to do so. In light of this, I feel our conversation is going nowhere & I really have a ton of other things to do that are more important that disputing with you. May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you & lead you into all truth!
Crossbearer83 11 months ago
@lovecapella Your entire explanation is confused. The tribulation is not God's judgment. The Wrath of God follows the tribulation which ends with the rapture. Pre-trib doctrine tries to make the tribulation & God's Wrath one & the same. This is error & I show the scriptural truth on my web site. However, I am now convinced you have no interest in researching this issue & there simply is not enough space here to detail the facts. May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you richly!
Crossbearer83 11 months ago
@lovecapella I love how the pre-tribbers like to twist the gospel message to fit their error. Its interesting that pre-tribbers assume that Jesus would devote 3 gospels to tell his disciples the details of the rapture of rebellious Israel & say nothing about the rapture of his beloved saints to whom he was speaking. If your serious about investigating this topic, you will go to my web page noted on the video. What does it profit you to hold onto a doctrinal lie?
Crossbearer83 11 months ago
@Crossbearer83 There is only ONE rapture. It will be for the saints "Jew & Gentile". Rebellious Israelis who refuse to surrender to Christ, will be destroyed at the brightness of the coming of the LORD. 5 virgins are taken, the other 5 are left behind. They don't have a "Second" chance!
Crossbearer83 11 months ago
In every case of teaching the pretrib myth notice how God's Word is added to and reasoned out and twisted to sound like it is in there. One instance is saying there is 2 last trumps. Last means NO MORE. There is only ONE second coming. He sits at the right hand of the Father till He makes His enemies His footstool.Mt 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation,,Mt 24:31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
GodsSeer 1 year ago
@KingsDaughter1958
Correction noted. Thank you!
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
@crossbearer83 my theory is that we are reigning now. i put rev 20:4-6 with rev 1:5-6 where it says Jesus hath made us kings and priests(hath being past tense). also i notice u didnt reference what i said about luke 17:28-30 verse 29 says "But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all" then 30 says "Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" notice Jesus himself said that it will be the "same day"
littlebigronnie386 1 year ago
@littlebigronnie386
No contest here. However, you might read Zechariah chapter 14 in full. It tells about that day & the remnant of the wicked on earth who survive God's wrath to be ruled over by the resurrected saints who were beheaded ut raised to life again!
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
@Crossbearer83 Are you saying then that those who take the mark of the beast will go into the millenual period to experience God's goodness and grace? If one takes Zechariah as you say, then there is a huge problem because the scriptures contridicts itself. The wicked as you say are those who took the mark of the beast. Now John is quite clear that anyone who takes the mark will be destroyed when Jesus comes back. So how can the wicked have a second chance when no one else was able to have one?
carpentersdaughter2 11 months ago
@carpentersdaughter2
Negative! I personally believe that those who survive are children. Those whom have not yet sinned against the Lord nor have taking the Mark. God bless!
Crossbearer83 11 months ago
@Crossbearer83 i have studied it in depth. my idea that we are in the thousand yr reign is just a theory btw that`s y i said i think we are in it now. and i didnt claim that to be in the 1000 yr reign means that resurrected saints are ruling now. at least not the physically resurrected. if u keep reading rev 20 it goes on to say that the 1000 yr reign happens during the first resurrection. the first resurrection is when a person gets saved. they become spiritually alive or born again
littlebigronnie386 1 year ago
@littlebigronnie386
The first resurrection is not being born again. It is defined as those who were beheaded for their witness!
Rev 20:4 and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
Just as u gave scripture for others to read, i suggest reading these also. matt 24:37-39 also luke 17:26-30 those verses compare the stories of Noah and Lot to the coming of Jesus. as soon as the righteous escaped, then God destroyed the rest. it`s telling us that God will destroy the earth as soon as christians are taken out. as for the thousand year reign i believe that we are in it now. rev 20 proves it
littlebigronnie386 1 year ago
@littlebigronnie386 Thank you for your comment! I agree with the scriptures on Noah's flood. However, I disagree that we are now in the 1,000 yr reign of Christ. Read chapter 19 where the resurrected saints (Rev. 20:4) return with Christ after the wedding supper to begin their reign with him and the wicked are destroyed at his coming. No resurrected saints are ruling the earth today nor is Christ ruling from Jerusalem as yet.
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
Sir i do not see any scripture that supports Jesus coming back twice.
littlebigronnie386 1 year ago
@littlebigronnie386
It's simple. You just haven't studied the topic in depth. I show the scriptures on my study noted on the video!
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
it is dangerous to not be prepared just incase we must die for our belief. plus noah was saved through the flood not from it. . best to be prepared pray for strength to endure whatever we must go through. just incase! many would lose faith completely if not raptured out
zackrowe1 1 year ago
Excellent! God bless you.
5to22a 1 year ago
This video is absolutely correct...
malboro1979 1 year ago
amen brother, you speak the truth.
ParanoidBerserker 1 year ago
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath
What I find interesting is that Enoch was raptured and Enoch was the first Preacher according to Jude 14 and Jewish tradition. Enoch can mean "to induct". He walked with God, preached and hadn´t to go through the wrath (flood) like Noah. So maybe Enoch is a type for the Church?!
Chrilsama 1 year ago
@Chrilsama I'm not sure I understand your point! The Wrath of God follows the tribulation. The saints will be raptured after the tribulation - yet before the wrath of God. See Rev chapter 14!
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
Excellent video brother. I hope more wake unto the truth. I was pre trib for many many years. Only when I really started to look with an open mind, prayed and asked the father for clarity is when it became clear. I don't even see why it has to be a debate. I think a true Chritian will be doing as the father said in Mat 24. Watching the signs, then in Luke.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
God bless.
012Tilly 1 year ago
I loved your first comments! Most of our time should be spent on learning how to live righteously, and do as we are told. This doctrine pre mid or post and other variations are areas of easy division to the church. I beleive in preaching the 7 year tribulation and how to watch for it, to be aware of the season. This will ready the Bride, bur arguments for different times just brings division.
plalelal 1 year ago
@plalelal
2 Tim. 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
@Crossbearer83 And obviously there are various verses which sound like they support many differing viewpoints. Just like you said about OT prophesy. My point was and is, if we concentrate on nowing the season, i.e. 7 year period, or if you don't agree with that than go with "endtimes". The point is we can be in unity about being real practicing Christians in word and in deeds especially as we see the signs of the timnes.
plalelal 1 year ago
@plalelal
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
It is a good thing to search the scriptures for answers. I personally don't buy into the 7 year trib doctrine. Daniel 9:27 fulfilled the 490 year prophecy in the days of Christ. I don't buy the "gap" theory saying God erred on this prophecy!
The trib could then be either longer or shorter .
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
Amen, No pre-trib gathering (rapture)....
AchreousD 1 year ago
Also we find in Revelation chapter 3 the letter to Philadelphia. "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." This was the promise to Philadelphia, the church who while weak, had not denied Jesus' name and had kept His word. This is a promise to all who do the same. You will be kept from the trials if you keep his word and do not deny Jesus' name. 1st-trials-> then-wrath.
Rigotto90 1 year ago
@Rigotto90
Google crossbearer tim lahaye
I deal with Rev. 3:10 in detail there!
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
The Greek scriptures were translated into "rapturo" (latin) from "harpazo" (greek) And harpazo means to snatch up eagerly or to snatch out of danger for one's self. So read the bible in greek or latin and you'll find rapturo, which is rapture, which came from harpazo which has the same meaning as rapture. Rapture- not scriptural, Harpazo, yes. The meaning of the word rapture is in the context of scripture. So yes, there will be a rapture. A "snatching up"
Rigotto90 1 year ago
@Rigotto90
No contest here!
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
it is pre-trib because the Bible tells us to look forward to the Rapture, it did not tell us to look forward to the Tribulation.
receivejesusnow 1 year ago
@receivejesusnow ???? Can you show me what scripture you are using?
Mat 24:29-31 Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days
[ ] he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
@Crossbearer83 Mat 24:29-31 This is not the same as 1 Thess 4:16/17 which is clearly speaking of THE TRUMP OF GOD.. and Matthew 24:29 - 31 is speaking of "A TRUMPET". This event in Matthew has to do with God delivering Israel..the jews. The Bride of Christ will be removed and only after the removal of the Bride can God turn His attention back onto Israel.Matthew has to do with the nation of Israel.The church and nation of Israel are distinct.
0871368021 1 year ago
@0871368021 Poor reasoning! Could you show me, without any question, in the book of Matthew, the scripture that clearly shows the rapture of the Christians so that we can disqualify vs 29-31 from actually being Christians?
1 Cor. 15:51-52 but we shall
ALL be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the LAST trump:
for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Matt 24:31 is the LAST trumpet
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
@Crossb i dont agree. But thank you for your comment. The Trump of God has to do with the feasts of the Lord. and the event Jesus Christ is speaking of in Matthew also corresponds with a different feast of the Lord.. Why do you say my reasoning is poor when I mention that i believe God has not finished with the nation of Israel (the very nation existing today) and that the Bride/Church is not the same yet the Bride and Israel- jews are all called the elect of God.God is dealing with 2 types.
0871368021 1 year ago
@0871368021 What is the last Trump to you? thanks.
0871368021 1 year ago
@Crossbearer83 are you saying the TRUMP OF GOD and THE LAST TRUMP are the same thing?
0871368021 1 year ago
@0871368021
The Last Trump is the Last trump - regardless what you call it!
Once again, can you show me where the book of Matthew CLEARLY shows the rapture of the Christian church before chapter 24 so that we can disqualify the elect shown to be the Christian church? Are you aware the NT shows the Christian church to be called "the elect?"
The rapture of Matthew 24:29-31 includes both the Jewish & the Gentile believers BOTH at the same time! WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED....AT THE LAST TRUMP!
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
@Crossbearer83 i dont agree that it's the church / Bride (jew and gentile) that is raptured Matt 24:29-31. I believe this to be about those who descend from Abraham Isaac and Jacob - God's Elect. We are a different kettle of fish altogether... we are the Bride of Christ.(HIS Elect also but we play a different part)..Jacobs Trouble is not for us.. it's for the 12 Tribes of Israel..
0871368021 1 year ago
@0871368021 Your entitled to your opinion. I still love you in the Lord!
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
@Crossbearer83 love you to brother... God Bless you always.
0871368021 1 year ago
@0871368021 the bible says that christ has broken down that seperation.. and paul calls us "the elect" in romans
cjbrake 1 year ago
How can the "last trumpet" spoken of by Paul possibly be the 7th trumpet of Revelation? That prophecy did not exist at the time Paul wrote to the Corinithians. Of course you could speculate that Paul had a similar vision, or something like that, but there is nothing in the scripture to back that up.
There are other trumpets mentioned in the Bible. In fact, the "first trumpet" mentioned in the Bible was used to gather the Israelites in order to sanctify them, not to send judgement.
UppsalaDragby 1 year ago
@UppsalaDragby
That is a common arguement by pre-tribbers. However, when Paul spoke of the LAST trumpet, he certainly DID know the words of Christ:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The LAST trumpet is "Immediately AFTER the tribulation"......
Crossbearer83 1 year ago
@Upp