agora special - european elections 2009 - part 3

[Rexanglorum]

Most Americans are indifferent about European unity. Those in America, who would like to see Europe become less competitive ie. those Americans whose firms compete with European firms, are happy to see the direction of the Euro Money experiment.

Europe's common currency means its members can only have about as much sovereignty as a State in the US and that means either true Suprenational gov't or perhaps an overreaction, retreat from even the common market zone, both bad for Europeans, IMO.

[NetEnlade]

Every day that goes by Nigel looks more and more like a genius sounded by babbling monkeys...if Shultz's brain fell out of his head his IQ would surely go up.

[Aussergardloge]

@NetEnlade It is called Schulz... you of course know that name from different "Americans are prisoners of the bad Germans in WWII"- sitcoms! This name soon is an American name only btw. since Muslims will conquer Europe in a few decades. With the help of about 4-6 mio European (then Muslim) soldiers and lots of nuclear nukes, the EU isn't a threat for the US any longer... economically of course! I don't know about the military thing... they probably will start their settlement of the US...

[Aussergardloge]

@NetEnlade It seems that I clearly was wrong when hating Muslims... the competition between Europe and the US is far more important... Yeah, intelligent people like you brought me to that conclusion... You surely are a college or university graduate, not?

[ryko26]

I just watched a feature on Euronews about working in foreign countries. It was as worthy of the title "news" as Tom & Jerry. Dull, bland, droning propaganda which would make Goebals or Stalin look subtle by comparison. We're not living in the 1930s anymore so quit all this crap.

[janak19771977]

fucking euphiles all of them traitors line them agaist the wall and shoot them all

of coarse lisbon will be forced down our throughts because eu is a dictatorship in the making

[papabearej]

boring socialists and shit heads, the left is evenmore rediculous, where is centre right, its all basis communist parties. where are the conservatives?

[greengronirandom]

this is europe, bitch

[Aussergardloge]

Don't throw bricks when you live in a glass house! Idiot!

[LuckyLuke199]

Rocks, my dear fellow, rocks.

[Aussergardloge]

Ah, really? Same case: No to the USA, there never had been a referendum on her constitution. Let the people vote for a new one! Unelected elites signed their constitution decades ago!!! The USA is base on a lie because no one in the USA had a referendum!!!

There is not a single referendum in the USA! Not on war in Iraq, not on important decissions, on nothing!!! Democracy = let the PEOPLE VOT what THEY want! NO to the USA!!!

[LuckyLuke199]

I must respectfully point out that the United States directly elects its president, an important decision indeed. And while we may not have direct referendums on constitutional amendments, our legislators are ultimately beholden to us, and a sufficient majority in this country can push through legislative change by proxy. Your nations can do as they like, obviously, but I would be wary of any attempt to centralize power against the will of the people, no matter what country.

[jacquelineveronique]

I see the Englishman is the only opposition there ? Yes, many Europeans like to see EU divided because we fear that we will loose our superpower status. That's what is suggested in the video.

[Aussergardloge]

Have your read all my comments here (my discussion with your compatriot, scroll down to the bottom) what about Wurtz or Muscardini they are against Lisbon as well!!!!

[jacquelineveronique]

Don't know all the names but many in EU think we fear the EU while I think America and China will be strongest,.

[Aussergardloge]

Hmm the EU right now economicall is much stronger than the US, the biggest single market in the world. China will overtake the US in 15 years. But I am not here to make a penis length comparison... Children in kindergarden say "I am better", "no I am better" that´s not my niveau. Facts or *jawns* Don´t you think?

[NetEnlade]

@Aussergardloge: Children in kindergarten say you penis length is better? Clearly only perverts support the EU.

[Aussergardloge]

@NetEnlade Oh sorry... I forgot that this is an U.S. American platform and that not only literate people read what I write... Sorry!!! Well... hm... let me give you another example.... people like you probably compare the shots of black U.S. Americans, but I am not unliterate enough to present an example like that... well... let's say: you are the "winner" of an extrem intelligent conversation! Okay? Very good!

[NetEnlade]

@Aussergardloge Maybe only illiterate people can read what you write because I can't figure it out. Are you drunk?

[Aussergardloge]

Have your heared Schulz, regarding your superpower status argument?

[EUXTV]

interesting debate... but there only are 'sitting' parties in here, the establishment. But what about the parties that are not yet in the parliament yet? They also deserve attention!

[Aussergardloge]

In Germany 38 parties candidate for the EP, Imagine the parties of all the 27 memberstates in a political discussion... They may deserve attention, but not in such a political discussion! Maybe in a separate one...

[UKNightClubber]

Here is a idea... we the British people don't want the Euro or Lisbon Treaty.. we want our Country back!

[ramonnl]

get this we don't want the uk in the eu either.

It's only slowing us down.

[ramonnl]

Indeed more people voted: yes then no for the libon treaty, huge blow to those **** saying that more voted no, since that's a big proven lie!

[adamlwowiak]

Brawo Nigel !!!

[wutru]

Nigel is correct on this. The Lisbon Treaty (veiled as a Constitution), was not voted on by Europeans, only the Irish. It was clearly anti-democratic.

This would be like having only New York citizens voting for the rest of the 49 states here in US.

[Aussergardloge]

Have you voted for your constitution? No? Or have you voted for the membership of the USA in the NATO? No! Have you voted for your president? No? Right the electors had done that for you! Have you ever had a referendum in your live? Let me answere this for you: No you hadn´t! How undemocratic is this!?! Have you ever had a third party in the USA, or are there just two? How undemocratic...

[wutru]

-US Constitution ratified by conventions in 13 states in the name of "The People", in 1787, so no, i couldn't have voted back then, that question was childish

-NATO is a military organization (let's not forget that EU was/is an economic entity), and the US shouldn't even be in NATO, but that's another debate

-Yes, we vote for our President, through the Electoral College process (again, another debate)

-3rd parties exist, there were other parties before Repub/Dems

[Aussergardloge]

- conventions aren´t referendums, so the US constitution is build on a "clearly anti-democratic" fundament, eh?

- Okay NATO is to military for you... take the WTO, ever had a referendum on this? No?

why should you critizise the EU because of a referendum while you don´t even have and had any in the so democratic USA! You never had a referendum on anything but you come here and critizise that its undemocratic if this is the same case in Europe?

[Aussergardloge]

BTW:

EU Lisbon treaty ratified by ELECTED parliaments in 25 states in the name of "The People" of the different countries! We only need the Czech Republik and Irland to complete this process!

[Aussergardloge]

2:03 & 6:15 for you!

[NetEnlade]

@Aussergardloge So, you think it is wrong that people in the USA haven't ever had a referendum, and somehow that means to you that it is right for the EU not to allow them? Do you use your brain at all? All you are proving is that the EU should allow for the referendums because that is what is "democratic" unlike what those evil Americans do. I'm fine with that. I could care less what you think of the U.S., so long as you agree that the referendum is the right thing to do.

[Aussergardloge]

Farage has neither manners nor a discussion culture: "No, No..."

[Europeunity]

Nigel is laughable! The fact is that WE the people elect the governments that suit our interests best so that THEY can represent us as individuals and the majority! That includes making "professional" decisions (Even though that is not always the case)! He also must understand that most of the people in Europe has just now started to understand the and take interests in the EU... Five or so years ago I didn't know anybody that did know much about the EU and that is starting to change!

[Aussergardloge]

I totally agree with you!

[krayzeeryan]

and what happense when we elect governments on the specific manefesto pledge on giving us a referendum on the EU constitution, then backtrack on their promise!?

Direct democracy is more democratic then Representitive democracy.

I hope that got you off your high horse.

[Aussergardloge]

Pah democracy is a matter of definition, it´s more dificile and not explainable in one sentence!

No one in Germany elected a government for a specific manefesto pledge, same thing in France, in Holland, Spain or elsewhere in the EU! Not even in the UK! There are other reasons why people vote for a party! You can´t say that there is only one reason, why people vote for a party! If direct democracy is so good is another discussion!

[krayzeeryan]

So that makes it perfectly ok?

Stop trying to justify it.

[Aussergardloge]

I don´t justify anything. These are facts, not justifications!

Now I hope you get off your high horse and start to think about it! Either arguments or stfu

[krayzeeryan]

Like Mr Farage said, democracy has been devalued and voters can no longer trust politicians on what they promise to deliver (that is a bad thing and undemocratic!)

I will agree with you that people dont elect governments on one issue, however what if Angela Merkle said that her government would ratify the Lisbon treaty and later decided not to and reject it.

Now Im sure with your pro-European views you would be just as pissed I am just like the situation with Gordon Brown.

[Aussergardloge]

I agree in such a case I would be angry. But I would be angry, maybe the rest of Germany wouldn´t!

I will not vote for the Socialists, but I think Schulz is right. There is no traditition for referendums. Had you a referendum on your NATO membership? Or a referendum on the WTO membership? I could continue a list with different memberships you hadn´t a referendum for... Why should now be a referendum?

[Aussergardloge]

There is a good quote, I don´t know the author but it´s: "Who is in the majority in a country? The wise men or the fools?" we both will agree that not the wise guys are in a majority. If you will put something for a referendum, the people sooner or later will ask for more. If there will be a referendum on a taxes increase, what will be the result? No tax increase! If they have their referendum on a increase of national insurance what will they vote for? For a increase of national security...

[Aussergardloge]

... Sooner or later there is no one who pays any taxes but all these guys will receive lots of benefits! No one thinks about the competitiveness of his country, they are individuals and they act like individuals!