I want to point out to anyone reading that this video is about specific things said in a campaign compared to what is happening now. This video is not supporting or arguing specifics about legislation as the legislation IS NOT DONE.
It really does no one any good to argue with me over what Barry says is in his nonexistent plan or what is in any unfinished bill. It is a waste of your time.
The point is lies the point is attacks on citizens who express their point of view.
Obama is sinister and loves the dissent that is going on...he has bigger plans beyond his little health care vision. He is clueless of actual numbers and being accountable of the costs...he has no clue he's never ran anything. So I think he has more sinister plans......hang on to your asses folks...
The deception is between what candidate Obama said he wanted to do, replace employer health coverage, and what President Obama says today which is that you can keep it.
If there is a massive safety net it is almost a guarantee many will lose their employer based health care. While he says if you change jobs you can keep your coverage there is NO portability ANY plan presented
The deception is Obama has no plan of his own and will not say with specificity which plan he is talking about.
"The deception is Obama has no plan of his own and will not say with specificity which plan he is talking about."
That is because you're too busy whining and not doing enough homework. It's called public OPTION fool. Not compulsory public insurance. YOU can make the decision to choose public OPTION, or you can say fuck it and stay with your current shitty private insurance. If the public option sucks nobody will be hurt because everybody can opt out of it dumbass.
Listening to Barry's speeches is not homework it is propaganda.
He says 47 million are without coverage right? How many of those are illegals? How many can get insurance now and for whatever reason do not? It's another in a long line of lies but I can tell you don't want to talk about these things you just want to regurgitate what Barry Soetoro tells you.
I love how if you speak out against Barry you are a whiner, a nazi, a racist or an RNC clone..
Obama has no plan of his own so when he talks about his plan who's plan is he really talking about?
The man is LYING to us, he is a LIAR. This is why his approval rating dipped to 47% today. Partisan think this is a us vs. them thing but to me it is about the constitution and congress has no authority to do what they are doing and neither does Obama so this is lawlessness.
My video has nothing to do with the Republicans some of whom are JUST AS BAD so bad assumption on your part.
Well the official obama plan is obvious. He has been stating over and over again. The question is what the actual plan is going to be because the republicans won't let Obama get what he wants. The reason why the issue is ambiguous is because everybody has their own plan, or no plan at all and all they want to do is kill this bill.
The Republicans do not have enough members in the Senate or the House to stop Barry. Come on!
They have 60 senators and a wide majority in the House they could pass this with NO REPUBLICAN SUPPORT! Your argument is either fallacious or you are just ill informed.
When I say he has no plan I mean written plan, legislation is written, bills are written real plans are written so we can READ them and know what is in the plan. Speeches change, what he says changes as I have pointed out.
"They have 60 senators and a wide majority in the House they could pass this with NO REPUBLICAN SUPPORT! Your argument is either fallacious or you are just ill informed."
That is old news. We thought we should be able to pass anything with no problem and we can. But for some reason Obama and many democrats don't want to abuse their power. You just admitted that they can pass health care reform without a hitch. We know that. So who's taking the high road?
Obama wanted this rammed through before the August recess. Why do you think that was? It was because of what you see happening now. People who have had time to look at the house bill dont want that kind of reform . Having time to find out what is in the plan they dont want what Barry is selling.
Dont you wonder if he didnt know that and that was why he was in such a hurry?
They hit public resistance not some new nobility.
public resistance? You're speaking on behalf of the people now? The reality is most people want the reform and they want the public option according to polls.
Have you ever thought about why the republicans don't want the reform? Because they get paid by the health care industry. Why would they bite the hand that feeds them millions? It's all about the money. You're naive if you think that politicians aren't affected by lobbyists.
Yes it is. Just like during the civil rights movement. But they're not the majority so for you to portray it as if most people are against health reform is the epitome of duplicity.
"76 percent of Americans either strongly support (53 percent) or somewhat support (23 percent) providing guaranteed health care coverage for every American, according to a recent Gallup poll"
That is a conservative estimate. 90% according to NYT
So I am reading the Gallup site right now and it says More Americans disapprove (49%) than approve (43%) of Barack Obamas handling of healthcare.
Thirty-five percent of Americans say they would advise their members of Congress to vote for a healthcare reform bill in September, 36% would advise them to vote against a bill, and 29% have no opinion.
You were saying? Now you try the old statistics game on me.
I never said I don't believe in health care reform. I don't want what they are proposing because it is unconstitutional and unnecessarily complex and based on lies.
Those are two very different things.
I have an HSA, it is my money I get to make choices how to use it and it makes me a more involved consumer of care. I make choices on costs because it is MY MONEY not a third party payer. I support that sort of reform. What do you think of that?
"I never said I don't believe in health care reform. I don't want what they are proposing because it is unconstitutional and unnecessarily complex and based on lies."
Name ONE thing that is unconstitutional and one thing that is based on lies.
"Several members of Congress ADMIT they did not read the TARP legislation and they didn't read the stimulus bill so yeah I think that is what he wanted to do"
News flash. NONE of them do. Their secretaries read them.
47 million uninsured includes about 10,000,000 illegals, check that out don't believe me.
Also in that number are people who already qualify for government programs
Also in that number are wealthy people who do not need insurance because they can pay for it out of pocket.
When you get down to it you may be talking about 10,000,000 legal American citizens who do not have insurance because they cannot get it for financial or pre-existing condition reasons.
Frankly I don't care about illegal aliens. As far as I'm concerned it is anybody's prerogative to live in any part of the earth they wish. As long as they're not killing the people who are living there left and right. Not that it hasn't happened before. That is how we illegally took this country from real Americans.
Here is where I disagree with Obama. Private insurance companies have to go. They're not efficient and they do their best to dishonestly deny coverage to people for pre-existing---
Frankly I care a great deal about the rule of law that is my whole problem with Obama and how he conducts this debate.
Illegal aliens are illegal and even Barry says they will not be covered under his plan, what ever that may be, so why include them in the 47 million number he tossed out all the time?
If all we had was government insurance and they denied your claim or rationed your care who would you complain to?
Obama has not broken any law. So stop implying that he has unless you can come up with something real.
"Illegal aliens are illegal"
Only because we say they are. Just like we say marijuana is illegal. Alcohol used to be illegal because we said so. Whether something or someone is illegal is not proof that they are evil.
"If all we had was government insurance and they denied your claim"
strawman. No such thing in public option. That only happens in private insurance.
How do you know there is no such thing? Where is the plan that states that?
And I love your argument that illegals are only illegal because we passed a law...
That's brilliant.
Probably explains your support for legal plunder by the government even though it is outside the constitutional authority of that government. You are OK with violating the law if it gets you access to other peoples money.
There is no such thing because Obama has specifically said so. Now if the bill gets passed and it turns out there was such a thing then people will get real pissed off. But you're pissed about an imaginary scenario. Just like the tax increase thing. Republicans went crazy over it until reality proved them wrong.
And as far as immigrants go I'm a free thinker. I don't believe in religion, countries or anything dogmatic. Why can't a human being live where they choose? I welcome them.
Saying 47 million therefore is a purposeful over estimate, it is purposefully misleading and in the old days we used to call that lying.
The constitution does not grant congress or the President any authority to mandate people purchase health insurance or to set up national coverage. The whole thing is an affront to our constitution.
My uncle doesn't have insurance because he can't afford it. none of your descriptions apply to him. I have blue cross blue shield and lately I've been to the doctors for minor medical reasons. They haven't paid for a damn thing and that's fine. But if the doctors find something wrong with one of my internal organs and it was seriously damaged you can bet that they'll do everything they can to drop me eventhough I'm 23 and I live a healthy lifestyle. Why? Because it saves them money.
Umm... I said there are around 10,000,000 who cannot get insurance because of financial or pre-existing conditions. If he cannot afford it that is financial so I was not ignoring that I am saying it is a different issue than saying there are 47 million.
When asked specific questions about things in TARP and the Stimulus they didnt know what was in the bills. They voted for something and had no idea what they voted for this is all well known and not even debatable.
They didnt read it, their staff if they did read it did not inform them of what was in it but they voted for it. They are arrogant incompetents who are robbing you blind and nothing irritates them more than having to answer to the people.
When asked specific questions about things in TARP and the Stimulus they didnt know what was in the bills. They voted for something and had no idea what they voted for this is all well known and not even debatable.
They didnt read it, their staff if they did read it did not inform them of what was in it but they voted for it. They are arrogant incompetents who are robbing you blind and nothing irritates them more than having to answer to the people.
"nothing irritates them more than having to answer to the people."
You're subscribed to james randi. So I assume you think creationism is a croc of shit and people who believe it have their wires twisted up in their brains.
I guarantee you that the majority of people who are at town hall hollering and screaming are creationists. I spend a great deal of time debating them and I know for a fact that nearly 100% of them are conservatives who support republicans blindly. You're on the wrong side.
So I should abandon rational thought on this and give up on the rule of law and our constitution because someone in a crowd might believe in creation?
That sounds rather foolish to me.
I am also subscribed to Penn Says. You might want to find out what he says about creationists and religion and prelisting. You know rational thought is not about bashing people who are different that is called thuggery and it is guttural really.
"So I should abandon rational thought on this and give up on the rule of law and our constitution"
AGAIN provide proof of laws being broken or shut up about it. Stop saying laws are being broken and actually point to the offenses.
"because someone in a crowd might believe in creation?"
Man you are naive. You don't know who's on your side. Just please please please find out for yourself. It's not hard. Find people on youtube who are against obama and ask them if they're creationists. 9/10 are
There is no constitutional authority for mandatory or national health care.
I have said that several times.
Operating outside the bounds of the constitution is lawlessness and just because people will not hold the government accountable does not make it legal.
Get a grip... this is not some new radical idea it is in fact what our nation was founded on. Not all of us have forgotten that.
The religious beliefs of everyone in a crowd has nothing to do with my views on this.
"There is no constitutional authority for mandatory or national health care. "
straw man. This is why health care reform is losing traction. You people are falling for the deception. Obama is not trying to impose mandatory public health care and you know that. He is ADDING public OPTION.
So that is your whole basis of how obama is doing something illegal. This is pathetic man.
"Obama says he is a Christian so what is your point?"
He isn't a creationist. Huge difference. You know that.
Maybe you better read H.R. 3200. Get your lawyer to help, you will need it.
NOTE I never said mandatory public option I said mandate health insurance like they mandate car insurance. They have no authority to mandate private citizens purchase ANY kind of insurance nor do they have any authority to offer government run insurance.
Like I said before just because they have not been heal accountable for violating the constitution does not make it legal.
There is no constitutional authority for the Federal Government to regulate, tax or control public education that is a state right that we have let get away.
You know the thing is some of us are tired of them stepping all over the rule of law, some of us want them to get their filthy rotten hands out of our pockets and get back within their constitutional bounds.
"There is no constitutional authority for the Federal Government to regulate, tax or control public education that is a state right"
Well public education is a state right still. So it was a bad analogy. States fund their own schools and they decide their own school curriculum.
Unless there is a clause in the constitution that you can point to which expressly bans the government to create public programs you really shouldn't be complaining.
"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. "
"The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."
- James Madison
There is no authority granted the Federal Government over education. NONE. The constitution does not list everything the government cannot do, that was not the purpose.
"There is no authority granted the Federal Government over education. NONE. "
The states are in charge of education like I said previously.
And that quote by james madison doesn't even vaguely state that the federal government cannot create public programs that "concern the lives" of people.
It explains the intent of the founder on federal powers. FEW and WELL DEFINED.
We practice the opposite today but that is not the intention nor is it the purpose of the law.
I would suggest you read the federalist papers and look up a French philosopher Frederic Bastiat. If you give those things proper study you will understand a lot about what is going on today and why it is going on.
Ok you might have a good point about the federal government. After all I was a ron paul supporter for a while until he finally lost. But then I realized that maybe his positions were too radical. Yes he is a strict constitutionalist but times change and our founding fathers knew that. The flexibility of the constitution is one of the brilliance of the document. That is why it can stand the test of time.
Maybe each state should choose for themselves whether it wants public option or not.
The flexibility is in the amendment process that was the intention and why the process to amend the constitution exists.
You have to ask why the government doesn't use that process when it wants to expand its power? You know if they want federal health insurance they could craft an amendment and if it passes the senate we would get to vote on it then we would know for sure what the people want right?
Dr. Paul is the ONLY member of congress with a perfect record on voting constitutionally.
He and I agree on war as well, there is a constitutional process set forth to declare war but we no longer use that. Democrats loved to bitch about Bush and the Iraq war but given the chance to demand congress declare any war they rejected that and instead passed a resolution giving Bush the authority to use force.
Yes, and a big waist of time i.e. you only represent 10% of the population.. I had a guy cutting my lawn that was a R Paul supporter after about three trips he said he would no longer take a check only cash. My guess is he is a tax dodger after listening to all his rhetoric. I turned him into the IRS and he has been arrested along with several others running gray area underground businesses.
What are you talking about? What 10% of the population do you think I represent? Frankly I don't recall being elected to represent anyone.
And good for you turning in that rotten law breaker you are a good citizen, Linda Douglas would be proud I guess but I am not at all clear what that has to do with anythign anyone has said on this page.
Obama is still a liar in spite of the numerous tax cheats you bring to justice.
What is mandated in auto insurance is liability, in other words it is protection from what you might do to others not a mandate for you to carry comprehensive insurance to cover your own vehicle.
You may sort of be able to say it is the same because you are uninsured it costs others money anyhow but if it is a public option and people are low income what changes? Nothing. You still have to pay for that off the back of others and it is not sustainable.
"Maybe this is nit picking but how can he be a Christian if he rejects portions of the Bible?"
Many christians accept evolution if you didn't know. And it's those without education who are most likely to believe in creationism. There is a solid inverse correlation between the level of education and one's likelihood to reject evolution.
And it's not a strawman. You could call it a non sequitur if you wish but I think whether a person is rational is relevant.
Im a Christian, and I believe in parents being able to provide children with religious instruction without interference from the state. YADA YADA YADA... I believe in evolution, and I believe theres a difference between science and faith. That doesnt make faith any less important than science. It just means theyre two different things. And I think its a mistake to try to cloud the teaching of science with theories that frankly dont hold up to scientific inquiry.
And it's obvious that Obama is not a creationist. Like I said I've been debating many creationists. They're easy to identify because they don't hide it unless you confront them and ask they if they believe that there was a talking snake with legs in the garden of Eden.
BTW I got 2 responses.
They're both clearly paranoid and suspicious. One of them answered neither but rejects evolution. The other one took issue with my question and said "what do you mean?". Just like Mike Huckabee.
Well I have no interest in what they believe, I don't know they or know why they I should care it has nothing to do with my views on Obama's health care.
Obama's stance is not surprising I had just never seen it stated. Mostly because I don't really care what he says he believes in and then rejects. He rejects god as creator but believe in god with power which to me is maybe more absurd than believing the earth was made in 6 days.
Only 6% of scientists are republicans did you know that?
People who are concerned with facts the most in the world don't agree with republicans. I'm not saying democrats are perfect or that Obama is infallible. I just think you are misdirecting your rightful indignation. Obama isn't perfect but he is well above par. The real problem in this country are the people leading the republican party and the morons who follow them. They're also the reason the world hates america. Wake up man.
Again interesting but not relevant to whether Obama's proposals are constitutional or wise.
Using the law to re-distribute wealth is the issue, using the law to shape social policy which is the purpose of the modern tax code and why it is so complex is not what our founders intended and it is not how things should be.
Simply because they are this way is in no way an endorsement of the legality of these things it is a statement on the apathy and education of the people and that is all.
it's called google. why don't you check it yourself before asking me. It's easy enough to do.
Just type in "6% scientists republicans"
The result is from the Pew Poll.
As an interesting side note 93% of the members of the national academy of sciences don't believe in god while republicans pander to the fundamentalist christians in this country.
The conclusion that the bill in the House and the draft bill in the Senate mandate coverage is also reported by MSNBC, the NYT, and the Chicago Tribune which are not exactly right wing news organizations.
But read the bill, the word REQUIRE is in there about a thousand times, it requires a lot and it is TIDIOUS as hell to read but you really need to know what the actual bills say before you start trying to tell me what is and is not being discussed.
I did notice you're subscribed to penn says as well. But at the risk of sounding arrogant, I must say that I am a lot more familiar with the subject of metaphysics than he is so I agree with a lot of what he says but I certainly don't get my ideas from him
It's worth considering your own intolerance of other people in really doesnt sever you well here.
Sir or Madam I have to do other things. Thank you for the debate and for being civil most of the time I think we both know no one is going to win this here but I am glad you are interested enough to engage.
I was just about to go to the gym so I'm done here too.
But when I come back I'll ask 10 people who are against obama and ask them if they believe in creation. Then I'll tell you their screen names and how many of them believe in creationism. You really need to think about this. You think creationists aren't politically biased? They're more biased than anybody. And they're on your side. And unlike you they're all inarticulate cretins. It's high time you re-evaluate your position.
Oh by the way the phrasing of the questions in those polls are different.
The one I gave you asks "Do you think the health care is in need of reform"
The latter one is "Do you agree with Obama's handling of health care reform".
Frankly most people don't pay enough attention like us to know how obama is handling this issue. All they know is that the current system sucks. So the first question is more appropriate. In fact I disagree with obama's handling of it. He should just force it through.
I know the phrasing was different that was the point.
Do we need some kind of reform? Yeah and there are many reasons why many have a lot to do with the way government has screwed this up in the past so that is one question but the question now is do we want the reform they are trying to get past?
That is losing a lot of support because now it is not an idea there are bills with specificity people can study.
To my knowledge it has not been written yet. At least it wasn't when people started complaining about it. So clearly it wasn't the nature of the bill that people didn't like. It was the reform itself. And they don't represent the majority.
Let me be clear, I said Barry has no plan of his own, he has written NO PLAN and mad NO PLAN available for we the people to read.
You said it yourself; there are lots of plans in the works. Barry gives speeches about his plan or the plan but never says which plan he is referring to.
And once again, I am not whining I am observing and exercising my rights as an American taxpayer to voice my opinion of all of this.
Public option is a legitimate plan. There is no reason to write down the details when there isn't even a consensus on whether to have public option at all.
everybody, at least in the congress knows what public option means.
We're not at the stage of debating the details of public option. That will happen if it looks like that is what we're going to do. Would you draw an intricate blueprint of a public building before finding out that nobody wants that? No. You first draw a rough sketch and present it and get people on your side. And if enough people want it THEN you start working out the details.
UP above you just told me under the public option they cannot deny your claims. How do you know that? You seem to want to argue the details of this when there is no evidence of what you are saying and now you say we are not at the sage of debating the details you were debating just a second ago...
Want to call me more names now? Probably about time for you to curse or call me a fool again.
"UP above you just told me under the public option they cannot deny your claims. How do you know that?"
"Want to call me more names now? Probably about time for you to curse or call me a fool again."
Yes I don't think rational argument is your forte. It's a fact that the public option does not deny coverage. People who ignore facts shouldn't complain about being called fools.
See but you are the one who keeps dragging scientists and religion, Fox News and whatever else crosses your mind into this so how rational are your arguments?
Also there is no final legislation yet so what the heck are you talking about? we have done this before, there is no bill, there is not finished bill so what are you referring to? You can't talk about what is in the legislation because IT IS NOT DONE!!!!!
You are still blowing smoke and I don't care to stand around in it.
You see you believe R is bad and D is good when the truth is both have been robbing you blind for several decades now. You run into someone like me who stopped believing the hype and you dont know what to do.
Bitching to me that the Republicans are evil will not get you far.
Barry is President, the Democrats are in control and both parties voted for the big fat bail out for Wall Street so stop trying to play around with me.
I'm an independent because it's not the party that matters. It's the people in the party. At some point in history the people in the R and D switched. During the civil war I would have been with the republicans. So I don't pledge allegiance to any political dogma. I just don't like idiots who believe in creationism, deny global warming, blindly supported bush through the Iraq war and think that torture of detainees was justified. And now they're opposed to HCR. Fuck them.
We could have a history lesson over this and some things apply still.
For me it is a matter of what kind of nation are we going to have? One that follows the rule of law and our constitution or one that steps all over it to get what some in government believe are right.
That was the question in 1861 and it was the question over much of what Bush did and it is the question today, right now. The constitution and rule of law matter to me, not people in power.
Bush mangled the constitution. Obama hasn't violated it.
If obama tried to privatize fire departments would you be opposed to it? I would. But why should you? You like privite corporations. You have to pay them to cover your home. If you can't afford it you're shit out of luck. If there is a fire department 3 blocks down and they don't help you, you can't complain because it's none of their business quite literally. So why are you even in favor of private health insurance? It's even worse.
Where in the constitution does he get the authority to offer universal health care? Where did he get the authority to take over GM and Chrysler and fire the CEO of GM? Where is his authority to name all these czars that are not accountable to the people or even congress but only to him?
Is this how our government is supposed to run?
Maybe you are confused because it has run outside the rule of law so long you believe this is how it is supposed to be?
They play good cop bad cop with people like you. They tell you R is BAD and D is GOOD and you believe it. Others are told D is BAD and R is GOOD and they believe that.
Two legs bad, four legs good and what happened to the animal farm?
You believe they arent doing this anyway because they are taking a high road, I think they are into self preservation mode now and job protection.
"Obama wanted this rammed through before the August recess. Why do you think that was? It was because of what you see happening now. People who have had time to look at the house bill dont want that kind of reform"
You honestly think that Obama was trying to pass it before anybody noticed how evil it was? Is that what you think? He knew there would be strong resistance that is why he wanted it done ASAP. You know why he knew that?
Name ONE thing the R has supported since obama took office. ONE
I didn't say evil but I think like Bush with TARP an Obama with the massive stimulus they wanted it passed before people really knew what was in the bill. Yes I think that. I think that is very clear.
Several members of Congress ADMIT they did not read the TARP legislation and they didn't read the stimulus bill so yeah I think that is what he wanted to do.
With all that has happened since last fall how do you doubt that?
The video is just information. People can form their own opinions but if you want to know what I think it would have been better for you to read the description or my journal entries.
It is not hard to figure out what I actually think and then you wouldn't have to make a complete ass of yourself.
I should have realized you were clueless, the evidence was there but I slipped and fell into a discussion with an idiot so I will now bow out.
Damn ... I should be used to making an ass out of myself ..... but always stings new.
:)
I agree they can
and thanks for helping me threw that anger.
I will work on my temper.
Oh I am not an idiot ...I have just had the government take everything I believed in and loved. They stripped it away on a whim while I was trusting them. I turned your video off without watching all the way through. You are spreading good info and I am going to go now.
It always pays to get as much information as possible before expressing a point of view on anything. One of the things frustrating these representatives at their meetings is the public knows more about the healthcare plans than they do.
This did not happen over night, circumstances that allowed someone like Barry to even have a shot at winning took a long time and are symptomatic of many failures of our government and various parties to lead.
What ever... I am becoming a Freeman on the land so what ever happens I won't be a slave to all this B.S.
Consent to be governed is given to the ppl so that they can take it away. This is just ridicules he sealed all his records and now he calls out the SS union on my grand parents...
My family came over on the Mayflower and I am not about to give in to some dumbass who is not even done one thing that is worth a shit.
Do you think this is in support of any of this crap?
The thing is, if you don't do the same old mindless partisan bull on youtube people can't follow along.
I am a constitutionalist first not a Democrat or Republican. I do not support any of the big bailouts or efforts to limit our liberty and socialize our country whether it is George Bush doing it or Barry Soetoro or had it been that idiot John McCain.
I don't think their goofy email to report fishy claims is to the level of the thought police yet but it is very strange to be asking citizens to snitch on the opinions of other citizens.
I can see what it would bother some people that they would do this. I don't know if it is illegal or not, some opinions say it is some say it is not so that is a question for the courts.
Like most government reforms however I think they are overreaching badly on health care which is why people are concerned.
I want to point out to anyone reading that this video is about specific things said in a campaign compared to what is happening now. This video is not supporting or arguing specifics about legislation as the legislation IS NOT DONE.
It really does no one any good to argue with me over what Barry says is in his nonexistent plan or what is in any unfinished bill. It is a waste of your time.
The point is lies the point is attacks on citizens who express their point of view.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Well done.
linwooddeaton 2 years ago
Thank you.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Obama is sinister and loves the dissent that is going on...he has bigger plans beyond his little health care vision. He is clueless of actual numbers and being accountable of the costs...he has no clue he's never ran anything. So I think he has more sinister plans......hang on to your asses folks...
howdythere34 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What we need is
"flat-rate no-limit primary care"
Everyone will agree it works best for all.
Just google it!
It's a real solution where doctors and patients alone are in charge to make the right decisions without insurance OR government interference.
animateclay 2 years ago
Sorry... I have been a little intense lately.
It's just I got so angry at that Obama white house lady I took it out on you and I am sorry.
Keep up the information.
Plus Police make me irritable.
Peace really...
llandshark 2 years ago
Well it's OK we all get irritable.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
so where is the duplicity? As far as I can see this video itself is an example of republican duplicity.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
The deception is between what candidate Obama said he wanted to do, replace employer health coverage, and what President Obama says today which is that you can keep it.
If there is a massive safety net it is almost a guarantee many will lose their employer based health care. While he says if you change jobs you can keep your coverage there is NO portability ANY plan presented
The deception is Obama has no plan of his own and will not say with specificity which plan he is talking about.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"The deception is Obama has no plan of his own and will not say with specificity which plan he is talking about."
That is because you're too busy whining and not doing enough homework. It's called public OPTION fool. Not compulsory public insurance. YOU can make the decision to choose public OPTION, or you can say fuck it and stay with your current shitty private insurance. If the public option sucks nobody will be hurt because everybody can opt out of it dumbass.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
What homework besides reading the bill?
Listening to Barry's speeches is not homework it is propaganda.
He says 47 million are without coverage right? How many of those are illegals? How many can get insurance now and for whatever reason do not? It's another in a long line of lies but I can tell you don't want to talk about these things you just want to regurgitate what Barry Soetoro tells you.
I love how if you speak out against Barry you are a whiner, a nazi, a racist or an RNC clone..
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Obama has no plan of his own so when he talks about his plan who's plan is he really talking about?
The man is LYING to us, he is a LIAR. This is why his approval rating dipped to 47% today. Partisan think this is a us vs. them thing but to me it is about the constitution and congress has no authority to do what they are doing and neither does Obama so this is lawlessness.
My video has nothing to do with the Republicans some of whom are JUST AS BAD so bad assumption on your part.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"Obama has no plan of his own"
There is the duplicity. You're dishonest enough to lie to yourself and stupid enough to believe your own lies.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
If that is a lie then link me to the official Obama Plan that you obvious read and no one else has.
Go ahead...
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Well the official obama plan is obvious. He has been stating over and over again. The question is what the actual plan is going to be because the republicans won't let Obama get what he wants. The reason why the issue is ambiguous is because everybody has their own plan, or no plan at all and all they want to do is kill this bill.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
The Republicans do not have enough members in the Senate or the House to stop Barry. Come on!
They have 60 senators and a wide majority in the House they could pass this with NO REPUBLICAN SUPPORT! Your argument is either fallacious or you are just ill informed.
When I say he has no plan I mean written plan, legislation is written, bills are written real plans are written so we can READ them and know what is in the plan. Speeches change, what he says changes as I have pointed out.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"They have 60 senators and a wide majority in the House they could pass this with NO REPUBLICAN SUPPORT! Your argument is either fallacious or you are just ill informed."
That is old news. We thought we should be able to pass anything with no problem and we can. But for some reason Obama and many democrats don't want to abuse their power. You just admitted that they can pass health care reform without a hitch. We know that. So who's taking the high road?
pokermaster54 2 years ago
High road?
Obama wanted this rammed through before the August recess. Why do you think that was? It was because of what you see happening now. People who have had time to look at the house bill dont want that kind of reform . Having time to find out what is in the plan they dont want what Barry is selling.
Dont you wonder if he didnt know that and that was why he was in such a hurry?
They hit public resistance not some new nobility.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
public resistance? You're speaking on behalf of the people now? The reality is most people want the reform and they want the public option according to polls.
Have you ever thought about why the republicans don't want the reform? Because they get paid by the health care industry. Why would they bite the hand that feeds them millions? It's all about the money. You're naive if you think that politicians aren't affected by lobbyists.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
No, I am speaking on behalf of me. Public resistance is just self evident.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
You're clearly delusional.
"Public resistance is just self evident."
Yes it is. Just like during the civil rights movement. But they're not the majority so for you to portray it as if most people are against health reform is the epitome of duplicity.
"76 percent of Americans either strongly support (53 percent) or somewhat support (23 percent) providing guaranteed health care coverage for every American, according to a recent Gallup poll"
That is a conservative estimate. 90% according to NYT
pokermaster54 2 years ago
So I am reading the Gallup site right now and it says More Americans disapprove (49%) than approve (43%) of Barack Obamas handling of healthcare.
Thirty-five percent of Americans say they would advise their members of Congress to vote for a healthcare reform bill in September, 36% would advise them to vote against a bill, and 29% have no opinion.
You were saying? Now you try the old statistics game on me.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"You were saying? Now you try the old statistics game on me."
I had no idea it plummeted that low. That just goes to show how sheepish people are. I can't believe they would fall for such an obvious propaganda.
Ok here is what you should do. List three reasons why you don't believe in the health care reform. Let's start there.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
I never said I don't believe in health care reform. I don't want what they are proposing because it is unconstitutional and unnecessarily complex and based on lies.
Those are two very different things.
I have an HSA, it is my money I get to make choices how to use it and it makes me a more involved consumer of care. I make choices on costs because it is MY MONEY not a third party payer. I support that sort of reform. What do you think of that?
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"I never said I don't believe in health care reform. I don't want what they are proposing because it is unconstitutional and unnecessarily complex and based on lies."
Name ONE thing that is unconstitutional and one thing that is based on lies.
"Several members of Congress ADMIT they did not read the TARP legislation and they didn't read the stimulus bill so yeah I think that is what he wanted to do"
News flash. NONE of them do. Their secretaries read them.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
47 million uninsured includes about 10,000,000 illegals, check that out don't believe me.
Also in that number are people who already qualify for government programs
Also in that number are wealthy people who do not need insurance because they can pay for it out of pocket.
When you get down to it you may be talking about 10,000,000 legal American citizens who do not have insurance because they cannot get it for financial or pre-existing condition reasons.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Frankly I don't care about illegal aliens. As far as I'm concerned it is anybody's prerogative to live in any part of the earth they wish. As long as they're not killing the people who are living there left and right. Not that it hasn't happened before. That is how we illegally took this country from real Americans.
Here is where I disagree with Obama. Private insurance companies have to go. They're not efficient and they do their best to dishonestly deny coverage to people for pre-existing---
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Frankly I care a great deal about the rule of law that is my whole problem with Obama and how he conducts this debate.
Illegal aliens are illegal and even Barry says they will not be covered under his plan, what ever that may be, so why include them in the 47 million number he tossed out all the time?
If all we had was government insurance and they denied your claim or rationed your care who would you complain to?
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Obama has not broken any law. So stop implying that he has unless you can come up with something real.
"Illegal aliens are illegal"
Only because we say they are. Just like we say marijuana is illegal. Alcohol used to be illegal because we said so. Whether something or someone is illegal is not proof that they are evil.
"If all we had was government insurance and they denied your claim"
strawman. No such thing in public option. That only happens in private insurance.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
How do you know there is no such thing? Where is the plan that states that?
And I love your argument that illegals are only illegal because we passed a law...
That's brilliant.
Probably explains your support for legal plunder by the government even though it is outside the constitutional authority of that government. You are OK with violating the law if it gets you access to other peoples money.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
There is no such thing because Obama has specifically said so. Now if the bill gets passed and it turns out there was such a thing then people will get real pissed off. But you're pissed about an imaginary scenario. Just like the tax increase thing. Republicans went crazy over it until reality proved them wrong.
And as far as immigrants go I'm a free thinker. I don't believe in religion, countries or anything dogmatic. Why can't a human being live where they choose? I welcome them.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Saying 47 million therefore is a purposeful over estimate, it is purposefully misleading and in the old days we used to call that lying.
The constitution does not grant congress or the President any authority to mandate people purchase health insurance or to set up national coverage. The whole thing is an affront to our constitution.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
My uncle doesn't have insurance because he can't afford it. none of your descriptions apply to him. I have blue cross blue shield and lately I've been to the doctors for minor medical reasons. They haven't paid for a damn thing and that's fine. But if the doctors find something wrong with one of my internal organs and it was seriously damaged you can bet that they'll do everything they can to drop me eventhough I'm 23 and I live a healthy lifestyle. Why? Because it saves them money.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Umm... I said there are around 10,000,000 who cannot get insurance because of financial or pre-existing conditions. If he cannot afford it that is financial so I was not ignoring that I am saying it is a different issue than saying there are 47 million.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
When asked specific questions about things in TARP and the Stimulus they didnt know what was in the bills. They voted for something and had no idea what they voted for this is all well known and not even debatable.
They didnt read it, their staff if they did read it did not inform them of what was in it but they voted for it. They are arrogant incompetents who are robbing you blind and nothing irritates them more than having to answer to the people.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
When asked specific questions about things in TARP and the Stimulus they didnt know what was in the bills. They voted for something and had no idea what they voted for this is all well known and not even debatable.
They didnt read it, their staff if they did read it did not inform them of what was in it but they voted for it. They are arrogant incompetents who are robbing you blind and nothing irritates them more than having to answer to the people.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"nothing irritates them more than having to answer to the people."
You're subscribed to james randi. So I assume you think creationism is a croc of shit and people who believe it have their wires twisted up in their brains.
I guarantee you that the majority of people who are at town hall hollering and screaming are creationists. I spend a great deal of time debating them and I know for a fact that nearly 100% of them are conservatives who support republicans blindly. You're on the wrong side.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
So I should abandon rational thought on this and give up on the rule of law and our constitution because someone in a crowd might believe in creation?
That sounds rather foolish to me.
I am also subscribed to Penn Says. You might want to find out what he says about creationists and religion and prelisting. You know rational thought is not about bashing people who are different that is called thuggery and it is guttural really.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"So I should abandon rational thought on this and give up on the rule of law and our constitution"
AGAIN provide proof of laws being broken or shut up about it. Stop saying laws are being broken and actually point to the offenses.
"because someone in a crowd might believe in creation?"
Man you are naive. You don't know who's on your side. Just please please please find out for yourself. It's not hard. Find people on youtube who are against obama and ask them if they're creationists. 9/10 are
pokermaster54 2 years ago
There is no constitutional authority for mandatory or national health care.
I have said that several times.
Operating outside the bounds of the constitution is lawlessness and just because people will not hold the government accountable does not make it legal.
Get a grip... this is not some new radical idea it is in fact what our nation was founded on. Not all of us have forgotten that.
The religious beliefs of everyone in a crowd has nothing to do with my views on this.
Now I need to go.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"There is no constitutional authority for mandatory or national health care. "
straw man. This is why health care reform is losing traction. You people are falling for the deception. Obama is not trying to impose mandatory public health care and you know that. He is ADDING public OPTION.
So that is your whole basis of how obama is doing something illegal. This is pathetic man.
"Obama says he is a Christian so what is your point?"
He isn't a creationist. Huge difference. You know that.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Maybe you better read H.R. 3200. Get your lawyer to help, you will need it.
NOTE I never said mandatory public option I said mandate health insurance like they mandate car insurance. They have no authority to mandate private citizens purchase ANY kind of insurance nor do they have any authority to offer government run insurance.
It is not a power granted to them.
Adherence to the rule of law is not a strawman.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"They have no authority to mandate private citizens purchase ANY kind of insurance nor do they have any authority to offer government run insurance."
They already mandate that we pay for public education, public fire stations, public infrastructure etc
Why not insurance?
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Like I said before just because they have not been heal accountable for violating the constitution does not make it legal.
There is no constitutional authority for the Federal Government to regulate, tax or control public education that is a state right that we have let get away.
You know the thing is some of us are tired of them stepping all over the rule of law, some of us want them to get their filthy rotten hands out of our pockets and get back within their constitutional bounds.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"There is no constitutional authority for the Federal Government to regulate, tax or control public education that is a state right"
Well public education is a state right still. So it was a bad analogy. States fund their own schools and they decide their own school curriculum.
Unless there is a clause in the constitution that you can point to which expressly bans the government to create public programs you really shouldn't be complaining.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. "
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."
- James Madison
There is no authority granted the Federal Government over education. NONE. The constitution does not list everything the government cannot do, that was not the purpose.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"There is no authority granted the Federal Government over education. NONE. "
The states are in charge of education like I said previously.
And that quote by james madison doesn't even vaguely state that the federal government cannot create public programs that "concern the lives" of people.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
It explains the intent of the founder on federal powers. FEW and WELL DEFINED.
We practice the opposite today but that is not the intention nor is it the purpose of the law.
I would suggest you read the federalist papers and look up a French philosopher Frederic Bastiat. If you give those things proper study you will understand a lot about what is going on today and why it is going on.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Ok you might have a good point about the federal government. After all I was a ron paul supporter for a while until he finally lost. But then I realized that maybe his positions were too radical. Yes he is a strict constitutionalist but times change and our founding fathers knew that. The flexibility of the constitution is one of the brilliance of the document. That is why it can stand the test of time.
Maybe each state should choose for themselves whether it wants public option or not.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
The flexibility is in the amendment process that was the intention and why the process to amend the constitution exists.
You have to ask why the government doesn't use that process when it wants to expand its power? You know if they want federal health insurance they could craft an amendment and if it passes the senate we would get to vote on it then we would know for sure what the people want right?
So why don't they do that?
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Dr. Paul is the ONLY member of congress with a perfect record on voting constitutionally.
He and I agree on war as well, there is a constitutional process set forth to declare war but we no longer use that. Democrats loved to bitch about Bush and the Iraq war but given the chance to demand congress declare any war they rejected that and instead passed a resolution giving Bush the authority to use force.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Yes, and a big waist of time i.e. you only represent 10% of the population.. I had a guy cutting my lawn that was a R Paul supporter after about three trips he said he would no longer take a check only cash. My guess is he is a tax dodger after listening to all his rhetoric. I turned him into the IRS and he has been arrested along with several others running gray area underground businesses.
robb1031 2 years ago
What are you talking about? What 10% of the population do you think I represent? Frankly I don't recall being elected to represent anyone.
And good for you turning in that rotten law breaker you are a good citizen, Linda Douglas would be proud I guess but I am not at all clear what that has to do with anythign anyone has said on this page.
Obama is still a liar in spite of the numerous tax cheats you bring to justice.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"NOTE I never said mandatory public option I said mandate health insurance like they mandate car insurance. "
Then why haven't you been protesting about mandatory car insurance? It's because it's not about politics. It's' about fear.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Straw man.
What is mandated in auto insurance is liability, in other words it is protection from what you might do to others not a mandate for you to carry comprehensive insurance to cover your own vehicle.
You may sort of be able to say it is the same because you are uninsured it costs others money anyhow but if it is a public option and people are low income what changes? Nothing. You still have to pay for that off the back of others and it is not sustainable.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Maybe this is nit picking but how can he be a Christian if he rejects portions of the Bible?
Did he say he rejects creationism at some point? I am unaware of that if he did. If you can cite where he said it then how do you know?
You see, I think you are the one tossing about straw men with this creationism nonsense which has nothing to do with anything I have said.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"Maybe this is nit picking but how can he be a Christian if he rejects portions of the Bible?"
Many christians accept evolution if you didn't know. And it's those without education who are most likely to believe in creationism. There is a solid inverse correlation between the level of education and one's likelihood to reject evolution.
And it's not a strawman. You could call it a non sequitur if you wish but I think whether a person is rational is relevant.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
But you are not answering my question on when and where Obama rejected creationism you said he is not a creationist.
I am not saying I dont believe you, I am wondering how you know that.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Im a Christian, and I believe in parents being able to provide children with religious instruction without interference from the state. YADA YADA YADA... I believe in evolution, and I believe theres a difference between science and faith. That doesnt make faith any less important than science. It just means theyre two different things. And I think its a mistake to try to cloud the teaching of science with theories that frankly dont hold up to scientific inquiry.
-Barack Obama
pokermaster54 2 years ago
And it's obvious that Obama is not a creationist. Like I said I've been debating many creationists. They're easy to identify because they don't hide it unless you confront them and ask they if they believe that there was a talking snake with legs in the garden of Eden.
BTW I got 2 responses.
They're both clearly paranoid and suspicious. One of them answered neither but rejects evolution. The other one took issue with my question and said "what do you mean?". Just like Mike Huckabee.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Well I have no interest in what they believe, I don't know they or know why they I should care it has nothing to do with my views on Obama's health care.
Obama's stance is not surprising I had just never seen it stated. Mostly because I don't really care what he says he believes in and then rejects. He rejects god as creator but believe in god with power which to me is maybe more absurd than believing the earth was made in 6 days.
Interesting but not a deal breaker on him.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Only 6% of scientists are republicans did you know that?
People who are concerned with facts the most in the world don't agree with republicans. I'm not saying democrats are perfect or that Obama is infallible. I just think you are misdirecting your rightful indignation. Obama isn't perfect but he is well above par. The real problem in this country are the people leading the republican party and the morons who follow them. They're also the reason the world hates america. Wake up man.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Again interesting but not relevant to whether Obama's proposals are constitutional or wise.
Using the law to re-distribute wealth is the issue, using the law to shape social policy which is the purpose of the modern tax code and why it is so complex is not what our founders intended and it is not how things should be.
Simply because they are this way is in no way an endorsement of the legality of these things it is a statement on the apathy and education of the people and that is all.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Comment removed
ytsolarus 2 years ago
it's called google. why don't you check it yourself before asking me. It's easy enough to do.
Just type in "6% scientists republicans"
The result is from the Pew Poll.
As an interesting side note 93% of the members of the national academy of sciences don't believe in god while republicans pander to the fundamentalist christians in this country.
The GOP is not in touch with reality at all.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
By the way,
The conclusion that the bill in the House and the draft bill in the Senate mandate coverage is also reported by MSNBC, the NYT, and the Chicago Tribune which are not exactly right wing news organizations.
But read the bill, the word REQUIRE is in there about a thousand times, it requires a lot and it is TIDIOUS as hell to read but you really need to know what the actual bills say before you start trying to tell me what is and is not being discussed.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
I did notice you're subscribed to penn says as well. But at the risk of sounding arrogant, I must say that I am a lot more familiar with the subject of metaphysics than he is so I agree with a lot of what he says but I certainly don't get my ideas from him
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Meant Proselytizing before...
It's worth considering your own intolerance of other people in really doesnt sever you well here.
Sir or Madam I have to do other things. Thank you for the debate and for being civil most of the time I think we both know no one is going to win this here but I am glad you are interested enough to engage.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
I was just about to go to the gym so I'm done here too.
But when I come back I'll ask 10 people who are against obama and ask them if they believe in creation. Then I'll tell you their screen names and how many of them believe in creationism. You really need to think about this. You think creationists aren't politically biased? They're more biased than anybody. And they're on your side. And unlike you they're all inarticulate cretins. It's high time you re-evaluate your position.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Obama says he is a Christian so what is your point?
You are off on this one. Unless you think he is lying about his religious faith?
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Oh by the way the phrasing of the questions in those polls are different.
The one I gave you asks "Do you think the health care is in need of reform"
The latter one is "Do you agree with Obama's handling of health care reform".
Frankly most people don't pay enough attention like us to know how obama is handling this issue. All they know is that the current system sucks. So the first question is more appropriate. In fact I disagree with obama's handling of it. He should just force it through.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
I know the phrasing was different that was the point.
Do we need some kind of reform? Yeah and there are many reasons why many have a lot to do with the way government has screwed this up in the past so that is one question but the question now is do we want the reform they are trying to get past?
That is losing a lot of support because now it is not an idea there are bills with specificity people can study.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"What homework besides reading the bill?"
To my knowledge it has not been written yet. At least it wasn't when people started complaining about it. So clearly it wasn't the nature of the bill that people didn't like. It was the reform itself. And they don't represent the majority.
Why not complain after the bill is written?
pokermaster54 2 years ago
The bill is H.R. 3200 I have it right here...
People have been complaining about the stuff that was coming out that would be in this bill because they pay attention.
Information on what is going into legislation is made public all the time.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
if you have the bill why are you whining and complaining about not having a bill to read?
As far as automotive industries they aren't taken over the government. Give me a break.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Let me be clear...
Barry loves to say that so I will use it,
Let me be clear, I said Barry has no plan of his own, he has written NO PLAN and mad NO PLAN available for we the people to read.
You said it yourself; there are lots of plans in the works. Barry gives speeches about his plan or the plan but never says which plan he is referring to.
And once again, I am not whining I am observing and exercising my rights as an American taxpayer to voice my opinion of all of this.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
wtf?
Public option is a legitimate plan. There is no reason to write down the details when there isn't even a consensus on whether to have public option at all.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
So you would be OK with passing a public option without having any details on what that would look like first?
Barry says we need a public option, don't you think it might help him sell it if we knew what that meant specifically?
If it is eventually going to be voted on or even seriously considered shouldn't we know what it is?
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
everybody, at least in the congress knows what public option means.
We're not at the stage of debating the details of public option. That will happen if it looks like that is what we're going to do. Would you draw an intricate blueprint of a public building before finding out that nobody wants that? No. You first draw a rough sketch and present it and get people on your side. And if enough people want it THEN you start working out the details.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
UP above you just told me under the public option they cannot deny your claims. How do you know that? You seem to want to argue the details of this when there is no evidence of what you are saying and now you say we are not at the sage of debating the details you were debating just a second ago...
Want to call me more names now? Probably about time for you to curse or call me a fool again.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"UP above you just told me under the public option they cannot deny your claims. How do you know that?"
"Want to call me more names now? Probably about time for you to curse or call me a fool again."
Yes I don't think rational argument is your forte. It's a fact that the public option does not deny coverage. People who ignore facts shouldn't complain about being called fools.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
See but you are the one who keeps dragging scientists and religion, Fox News and whatever else crosses your mind into this so how rational are your arguments?
Also there is no final legislation yet so what the heck are you talking about? we have done this before, there is no bill, there is not finished bill so what are you referring to? You can't talk about what is in the legislation because IT IS NOT DONE!!!!!
You are still blowing smoke and I don't care to stand around in it.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
You see you believe R is bad and D is good when the truth is both have been robbing you blind for several decades now. You run into someone like me who stopped believing the hype and you dont know what to do.
Bitching to me that the Republicans are evil will not get you far.
Barry is President, the Democrats are in control and both parties voted for the big fat bail out for Wall Street so stop trying to play around with me.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
I'm an independent because it's not the party that matters. It's the people in the party. At some point in history the people in the R and D switched. During the civil war I would have been with the republicans. So I don't pledge allegiance to any political dogma. I just don't like idiots who believe in creationism, deny global warming, blindly supported bush through the Iraq war and think that torture of detainees was justified. And now they're opposed to HCR. Fuck them.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
We could have a history lesson over this and some things apply still.
For me it is a matter of what kind of nation are we going to have? One that follows the rule of law and our constitution or one that steps all over it to get what some in government believe are right.
That was the question in 1861 and it was the question over much of what Bush did and it is the question today, right now. The constitution and rule of law matter to me, not people in power.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Bush mangled the constitution. Obama hasn't violated it.
If obama tried to privatize fire departments would you be opposed to it? I would. But why should you? You like privite corporations. You have to pay them to cover your home. If you can't afford it you're shit out of luck. If there is a fire department 3 blocks down and they don't help you, you can't complain because it's none of their business quite literally. So why are you even in favor of private health insurance? It's even worse.
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Where in the constitution does he get the authority to offer universal health care? Where did he get the authority to take over GM and Chrysler and fire the CEO of GM? Where is his authority to name all these czars that are not accountable to the people or even congress but only to him?
Is this how our government is supposed to run?
Maybe you are confused because it has run outside the rule of law so long you believe this is how it is supposed to be?
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
You see the truth is this:
They play good cop bad cop with people like you. They tell you R is BAD and D is GOOD and you believe it. Others are told D is BAD and R is GOOD and they believe that.
Two legs bad, four legs good and what happened to the animal farm?
You believe they arent doing this anyway because they are taking a high road, I think they are into self preservation mode now and job protection.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
"Obama wanted this rammed through before the August recess. Why do you think that was? It was because of what you see happening now. People who have had time to look at the house bill dont want that kind of reform"
You honestly think that Obama was trying to pass it before anybody noticed how evil it was? Is that what you think? He knew there would be strong resistance that is why he wanted it done ASAP. You know why he knew that?
Name ONE thing the R has supported since obama took office. ONE
pokermaster54 2 years ago
I didn't say evil but I think like Bush with TARP an Obama with the massive stimulus they wanted it passed before people really knew what was in the bill. Yes I think that. I think that is very clear.
Several members of Congress ADMIT they did not read the TARP legislation and they didn't read the stimulus bill so yeah I think that is what he wanted to do.
With all that has happened since last fall how do you doubt that?
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
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llandshark 2 years ago
The video is just information. People can form their own opinions but if you want to know what I think it would have been better for you to read the description or my journal entries.
It is not hard to figure out what I actually think and then you wouldn't have to make a complete ass of yourself.
I should have realized you were clueless, the evidence was there but I slipped and fell into a discussion with an idiot so I will now bow out.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
Damn ... I should be used to making an ass out of myself ..... but always stings new.
:)
I agree they can
and thanks for helping me threw that anger.
I will work on my temper.
Oh I am not an idiot ...I have just had the government take everything I believed in and loved. They stripped it away on a whim while I was trusting them. I turned your video off without watching all the way through. You are spreading good info and I am going to go now.
llandshark 2 years ago
It always pays to get as much information as possible before expressing a point of view on anything. One of the things frustrating these representatives at their meetings is the public knows more about the healthcare plans than they do.
This did not happen over night, circumstances that allowed someone like Barry to even have a shot at winning took a long time and are symptomatic of many failures of our government and various parties to lead.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
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llandshark 2 years ago
What ever... I am becoming a Freeman on the land so what ever happens I won't be a slave to all this B.S.
Consent to be governed is given to the ppl so that they can take it away. This is just ridicules he sealed all his records and now he calls out the SS union on my grand parents...
My family came over on the Mayflower and I am not about to give in to some dumbass who is not even done one thing that is worth a shit.
How much did they pay u for your soul?
llandshark 2 years ago
You are very confused.
Do you think this is in support of any of this crap?
The thing is, if you don't do the same old mindless partisan bull on youtube people can't follow along.
I am a constitutionalist first not a Democrat or Republican. I do not support any of the big bailouts or efforts to limit our liberty and socialize our country whether it is George Bush doing it or Barry Soetoro or had it been that idiot John McCain.
Hows that? Does that work for you?
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago
How about the people who bully an agenda through no matter what anyone whats cause they think there the king?
We are afraid of your thought police.,.. oh no!
You should stay out of this and maybe work on giving back people there houses that you gave to the banks!
peace till we impeach you :)
llandshark 2 years ago
I don't think their goofy email to report fishy claims is to the level of the thought police yet but it is very strange to be asking citizens to snitch on the opinions of other citizens.
I can see what it would bother some people that they would do this. I don't know if it is illegal or not, some opinions say it is some say it is not so that is a question for the courts.
Like most government reforms however I think they are overreaching badly on health care which is why people are concerned.
TheFreeThoughtPolice 2 years ago