there is only one god and his name is brahma . he is the square root of the aryan , he is the square root of western construction and science , he is the square root of all creation , he is the square root of all healthy media .
what atheist EVER said anything about punishment by death for believing in a god? What a ridiculous statement. We don't want to kill anybody, quite the opposite. We just want to end the stupidity. Or did I get it wrong? The religious nuts want to kill us? Not that surprising.
what atheist EVER said anything about punishment by death for believing in a god? What a ridiculous statement. We don't want to kill anybody, quite the opposite. We just want to end the stupidity.
To be honest, if people come up with ludicrous ideas that atheists "pray" to Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennet or Harris, then I reserve the right to address the Pope as Pissmidget (with capital P) from now on.
One's choice in religion is personal; and shouldn't be interfered by others. If one chooses to be a deist or an atheist; no one should stop him. Freedom of religion is key to a peaceful living.
as it was written in the bibLe, ANTICHRISTS wiLL rise in the Last days....everything written in the bibLe is now occuring as it was predicted. after seeing this, I STRONGLY BELIEVE NOW THAT THERE IS A GOD.
I'm catholic and I believe that as long as you believe that there is in any way shape or form at least one exsistent god you won't go to hell. I mean disagree with me if you want to but that's just my personal opinion.
@Koekjedrbij1 “Show me the proof? this is the best gotcha argument for atheism!!” "hehehe, I know the theist cant show me a material proof for an immaterial reality."
Well yes there is no direct physical evidence for God just as there is NO scientific model for any of the things in life that really matter: wisdom, love, hope, compassion, intuition and many other abstract realities that define the human heart.
"The glory of God is seen in the heavens & earth reveals the work of his hands"
@Koekjedrbij1 If u have 2 spent half your ultimately meaningless life defending a non belief in a reality for which there is no evidence that just proves u cant life without God. I have a non-belief in aliens, astrology, the occult but I dont have to prove it to myself b/c they have no bearing on my worldview which gives me hope, meaning fulfilmet & destiny.
3000yrs ago the Psalmist wrote "A fool in his heart says there is no God" I guess that makes atheism a bronze age myth?
Alex Vilenkin, Russian cosmologist "With the proof now in place, current cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape: we have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning." Erwin Shrodinger, quantum physicist: "Science puts everything in a consistent order but is ghastly silent about everything that matters to us: ethics, beauty color taste, pain & delight, meaning & God. What is a scientific model for love, wisdom or hope?
Never mind the fundy new age mystical freakfucks you're arguing with are far too gone, let them run in circles like fools.
Very soon, all the religious new age fundy freaks will be systematically eradicated, giving rise to the inevitable utopia of free-thought, science and reason to come.
We're setting stage for global world peace through a newly unified system of governance that puts men before mysticism and snuffs out the lives and tenants of all who oppose our godless values.
@organizedatheism "We're setting stage for global world peace through a newly unified system"
I guess "with God out of the way all things are possibe"? That would explain why the world is financially, morally & spiritually bankrupt and greed & corruption are endemic.
No doubt Mao, Stalin, Pol pot, Edi amin & Kim Jong ill had the same new world order in mind when they eradicated 100million who didnt agree with their godless worldview?
"Atheism is a necessary component of our program." Lenin 1920
@BiblePreacher889 So religion is based not even on the limited education of semi-illiterate goat herders but just on the very limited cranium-capacity Neanderthals?
Here is what you have to believe: The creator of the universe (in between contemplating supernovas and the gravitational constant) mysteriously influences a superstitious and mostly illiterate band of goat herders, enforces genocide, hatred, and the degradation of women. Then he sends his son to earth to undergo a human sacrifice and warns he will return someday to orchestrate the end of human history, sending billions of innocent people to hell forever.
@dex1391 then what's a christian? You're book supports murder, rape and the murder of first born children. Religion is a poison that needs to be purged. I can understand why you believe in something, but it doesn't mean that I have to respect it.
If there weren't extremist threatening us with death we might have left people who believe in an imaginary friend alone. It is easy to recognize who the true evil is.
@iliveon "Love is in the brain, maths are in the brain, .." So without a brain there would be no scientific laws, abstract math or logic? Of course the atheist has to say they were invented not discovered.Nothing illustrates more clearly how intractable a problem the data is for some who interpret or refuse to accept data that doesn’t permit a naturalistic explanation.How does the latter explain the absurdly complex math that defined the universe long before man evolved a brain to marvel at it?
“Show me the proof” Well long before modern science buried “naturalism” as a plausible explanation for our finite rationally intelligible universe, I always knew God through life’s experience. If your deepest humanity is not touched by God in this sad but triumphant story (/watch?v=BewknNW2b8Y) then u truly r “a bunch of selfish genes fighting for survival in a world of pitiless indifference.”
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4:8)
@Prodigalfather1 I was a Christian, no longer can I maintain belief without evidence. I feel perfectly fine to say "I will be going to the afterlife that ghandi is going to" Because a great moral teacher like Ghandi wasn't christian, nor is it moral to send Ghandi to hell. As an atheist, I will join in with the majority of eminent scientists and Ghandi and God can send me to hell if he wants, if he does he's immoral. Good thing there isn't much evidence for such a sick, disgusting place
@iliveon Moses & Abraham werent Christians. Those who embrace Christian values (read Sermon on the Mount), follow their conscience, live the golden rule, are more worthy of redemption than those who are psuedo "Sunday" Christians. The God Jesus describes in the Parable of the Prodigal Son is one of infinite, mercy, patience & love. I too embrace many insights given by eminent scientists & Nobel laureates about our finite rationally intelligible, life-permitting universe and ask "WHY?"
@Prodigalfather1 So yeah, I reject all of this man-made stuff and I stick to what can be confirmed. I will go to hell like Ghandi is because without faith, you cannot please God
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. Hebrews
@Prodigalfather1 Its far too hard for me to believe in walking on water and such. Even a personal relationship seems absurd, because all I do is talk to myself. And I find it possible that so many people can be Christians and feel this way because I understand psychology and I see other religions do the same things. They delude themselves and I think Christians do the same. And thus the largest barriers of humankind
@iliveon " Its far too hard for me to believe in walking on water and such." Dont worry many atheists look at miracles like the ressurection, life after death and say, impossible. They assume that God cant possibly exit so everything that follows is delusional. Hitchens uses the same circular logic when he looks at religious claims and concludes that God doesnt exit. So God doesnt exist therefore all religions are delusional. From which he concludes that God cant exist
u seem to be a genuine seeker of truth unlike many of the sad, bitter God-haters who dot the dungeons of cyberspace with their vitriol. Can I ask u if u believe 1)everything (all reality) in the universe is material? 2)everything can or will be explained by science? 3) does finding mechanisms for planetary motion or the biodiversity of life answer where they came from, WHY those mechanisms exist & obey abstract laws. 4) Does our finite intelligible universe exist necessarily or is it contigent?
@iliveon God can be inferred from science but the latter cannot explain God anymore than it can explain other immaterial realities that exude intelligience like abstract maths, logic, love, morality goodness, evil hope.etc
@iliveon "maths are in the brain" Mans ability to play with figures and come up with wrong answers is indicative of our flawed intellect. That would hardly explain WHY all the scientific laws that define our finite, life-permitting universe are underpinned by equations whose elegance challenges the greatest minds in search of the correct answers. Without God theres no logical reason that a physical universe should be defined by abtract math formulae, billions of yrs before man evolved a brain!
@Prodigalfather1 3) does finding mechanisms for planetary motion or the biodiversity of life answer where they came from, WHY those mechanisms exist & obey abstract laws.
Finding mechanisms explain reality and them following the natural laws.. is well.. natural. Why they exist is a natural thing. I say they exist because that is nature
@iliveon Many demand "Show me the proof” Well long before modern science buried “naturalism” as a plausible explanation for our finite, rationally intelligible universe, I always knew God through life’s experience. If your deepest humanity is not touched by God in this sad, but triumphant story (/watch?v=BewknNW2b8Y) then u truly r “a bunch of selfish genes fighting for survival in a world of pitiless indifference.”
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4:8)
@iliveon If u start with God doesnt exist then everything else must logically follow. Have u ever embraced the logical implications of ur worldview? The most ridiculous of all is that atheists must have blind faith in naturalism to explain a finite, rationally intelligible universe defined by NON-material laws & a set of exquisite equations. They do so in spite of numerous eminent scientists & Nobel laurates who assert that it is the least plausible explanation is NATURALISM.
@Prodigalfather1 The higher you get in education the more atheistic it gets. College professors tend to be more atheistic. Secular nations, western nations, tend to be more atheistic than nations that haven't caught up industrially or scientifically. The top scientists involved in Royal society and national academy tend to be highly atheistic compared to the less educated. There aren't non-material laws. These "laws" as you put it don't exist. Just like numbers don't exist outside of items
@iliveon Where did u get those statistics? I have dozens of quotes from Nobel laureates claiming that increasingly, "naturalism" is failing as an explanation for our finite rationally intelligible universe. Give me some quotes from atheist philosophers or scientists who can explain WHY the universe is rationally comprehensible, obeys abstract laws, is defined by absurdly narrow life-permitting physical constants. Give me a scientific model for wisdom, morality, hope, love. Where is the evidence?
@Gericho49 Morality obviously is within animal species. It is a concept that we explain our actions by. Wisdom is a concept meaning what someone knows through time. Hope is a concept that explains ... well.. hope. dogs have hope. love.. dogs have love. Its an emotion, a concept that explains how we feel towards one another. and it is in the brain. I'll be back later to show you where I got the statistics. One is from social science research thingy, the others are from newyorktimes and such
@iliveon Objective Morality in ur worldview is just illusory. When u cease to exist (in a cosmic nanosec) what will it matter if u lived as a Adoft Hitler or Mother Teresa? The animal kingdom is TOTALLY amoral. An ape who tears the offspring of a rival limb from limb is not murderer, it's just nature's way of assuring the survival of the species. Love, wisdom hope are like God, IMMATERIAL realities. Atheism demands that everything that exists in a material universe is logically material/physical
@Gericho49 No, atheism does not require that. Atheist Buddhists don't believe in gods, but they believe in souls and some people believe in reincarnation, etc and they are atheists. I don't care that my morality is my own. My morality is based off of a rational weighing of what is good and what is bad, nothing about a sky daddy giving me instructions, but I can be good without God and that is where I am more moral than a theist. Because I act good for goodness's sake
@Prodigalfather1 That I believe I will live once and only once? That I should value this life if I could value something at all? That I am a social species that gets along and survives only with friends and family. That I don't believe in a God that performs miracles for me, so that I can make medicine and use natural resources to do the best I can with them and not be self-centered in thinking the universe is all about me? Tell me with logic the implications that I should follow
@AntiFaithNY For a minute I thought u had a civilized tongue in ur head but then alas...!
I also dont like they way some fundamentalists interpret the Bible but they have just as much right as us to express their opinions in print & at the ballot box. But I'd prefer a church going fundamentalist family living next door anytime to a despicable one, on the TV news hunting as a pack to pilfer retail stores. If ur all for gay rights or abortion join ur own political party or move overseas.
The proof for God is simple because of the absurdity of the alternative. If there's no spiritual dimension to existence then EVERYTHING is reducible to mindless matter &energy. But matter is not eternal in the past & highly complex, immaterial realities like scientific laws, abstract maths, numbers, logic and other non-contingent, metaphysical concepts DO exist Therefore compelling evidence for a non-contingent, spiritual agent that transcends matter.
Hilbert, one of the greatest mathemeticians of the 20th century said, “The infinite as in infinite past time is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite…is solely that of an idea…”
“It may seem bizarre, but science offers a surer path to God than religion.” –Astro-Physicist Paul Davies in his book God and the New Physics.
Albert Einstein: “I am not an atheist, and I cant call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.”
@Prodigalfather1 "I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts."
Tell me where he says he believes in a God who intervenes, sent his son, judges souls, etc? He is a hell of a scientist and open to the question like MOST atheists. absence of belief
@iliveon My quote from Eintein was late in his life. True the concept of a comprehensible universe as well as a supreme author of our rationally intelligible universe, troubled him deeply. Einstien came to realise that science & no advance in science can ever answer the "why" questions which permeate human existence. Einstein also said that when a scientist puts on a philosopher's cap he's just as dumb as anyone. Hawking please take note. ps atheism is NOT absence of belief!
@Prodigalfather1 "I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind
Where here does it say he believes in a God? Look up Spinoza's God? It means an ABSTRACT God, not a real one. He therefore believes in none, so get your stuff right
There is so much against your proposition its not funny and quit quote mining. It gets you nowhere, especially when I can look what you say up
@iliveon Your limited conceptualization of God has no bearing on his existence or nature. Can u conceive of a father who loves his children, wants them to freely choose what is best for themselves & their own love ones? Do u love your children unconditionally?
Read the Parable of the Prodigal Son if u want the essence of Christianity and the nature of God in one complete short story. This is the God I know and love.
Take care & keep searching, the truth will set u free.
The most compelling evidence for God is not the truth of the Bible, the archoelogical, scientific & philosophical evidence, it's the number of taunted, obsessed deniars who cannot sleep thinking about the implications of God's (non)-existence. Some say they just "lack faith" but then waste their ultimately meaningless lives & every waking moment defending their non-belief. If u really are offended driving passed a cemetery with crosses for grave stones, then u really prove my point.
@Prodigalfather1 Stop lying to yourself. Christianity is called a FAITH. That's why in the Bible itself, the men wrote it specifically like this "Without Faith you can't please God"
@Prodigalfather1 Jesus has no unconditional love. He said "Take no thought for the morrow, leave your Jewish families. Turn the other cheek. What he needed to say was "Run from your enemies," "Take thought for tomorrow, I won't be torturing you in hell," "I won't destroy earth," "Don't leave your family, they need you."
JESUS' CONDITION FOR LOVE IS BLATANT: FAITH. Belief without evidence
There is no archaeological evidence that would prove that Jesus could walk on water, cure leprosy, born of
@Prodigalfather1 Born of a virgin, turns water into wine, transforms a little fish and bread to a lot of fish and bread, dies in a human sacrifice for sins? These things are preposterous to the modern world. The story book even skips from age 12 to 30 years of age without a word (similar to a story book, aint it)
Jesus would send you to FIRE AND TORTURE if you don't accept a book that was written 2 thousand years ago? What type of loving God uses fear tactics like this?
@Prodigalfather1 Tell me how ancient writtings written by so called prophets, and groups of in-charge men who put them in book form, the Bible, leaving many ancient writings out of it, means that we should run our lives by it? Tell me how. You first must accept that they were prophets, I don't and I don't trust man's inventions. The psychology of the many religions is clear. All it takes is trust in fellow man, group dynamics within church, and repeated chants and you will believe in anything
@iliveon "Bible....why should we run our lives by it? " Take a look a round u!
The world is morally, spiritually & financially bankrupt. Christian values of tolerance, honesty, respect, generosity, compassion & LOVE are even more relevant today than when Jesus died for these values.
When I said many are tormented by the existence of God & the implications for their lives, your numerous posts prove it. Start with premise that God DOES exist & all your Qs r answered & ur insults are worthless
@Prodigalfather1 I don't have any insults. Secondly there are other religions that say the same thing. And there better morality books out there than the bible. Ones that don't talk about stoning unruly children, beating children (correlated with jail and other issues), stoning women who aren't virgins, scraping the foreskin off of young boys (in contrast to clitoris with Muslims), slavery of people from different nations, mass genocide of cities because there are nonbelievers, I could go on @on
@Prodigalfather1 Like I said, think of one thing immoral done in God's name. There, you've thought of one. Think of the morality that exist today compared to the morality of just a couple hundred years ago. Think about the morality that exist today compared with a thousand years ago. What about in Bible days, let's think of the morality.. Ok slavery.. stonings of children, bear, virgin captives.. mass animal sacrifice.. human sacrifice.. blood on alters.. spirits and demons, plagues
@Prodigalfather1 compared with today.. science.. increase in human awareness.. farming industry coupled with biogenetics.. skyscrapers.. international peace treaties.. global communication.eradication of diseases via medicine (not prayer).. leoprosy destroyed. No one is walking on water,but we sure are walking on the moon. Think of how silly the things of the bible sound to someonewho has walked on the moon. We have Ipods, C.E.R.N. facility, spacecraft, cellular phones. What is walking on water?
@Prodigalfather1 And yes I have deep problems with people following this book in modern day age. It has magic stories in it, horrible atrocities done by God (Jesus), and human sacrifice, talking animals, rape of thousands of woman, sexist discrimination all throughout, and a man willing to kill his own son revered by Christians. I find it sad to say that the same weirdness in Islam is the same weirdness in America. Religion. If you chant that God is great, you look through a narrow scope
@Prodigalfather1 You have people praying for their lives to be saved, the same people dying in horrible situations pray to this God. The woman who spent 24 years locked up in someone's basement. I'm sure she prayed to God. By a sheer accident, the man was too old by then, she was freed. You, as a Christian may say "don't worry, she'll be fine in the afterlife, and what she went through was all worth it, she'll go to heaven"
Can you be serious and think that God interferes?
@Prodigalfather1 If God existed, the world would be a totally different place. And if God existed, I'm sure he'd be smarter than human sacrifice in order to forget his own creation.
I rely on physical evidence for believing things and God is not outside the realm of science.Well, in a way, he's already been tested for. That was the 2.4 million dollar prayer study done by the John Templeton foundation. Turns out people who were prayed for didn't get better, and sometimes worse. Glad for medicine
@Prodigalfather1 And if you think a man, a preacher, of bronze age palastine, was the "son of God" I have to ask you this here. You believe the stories of him healing the blind, the sick, the afflicted.. If he was perfectly moral: Why didn't he create medicine and teach people how to cure sickness with medicine? So that he could grant humanity with something that would help them maybe until the end of time? Why did he have to "touch to heal" and why were his garments holy? He was supposedly God?
@Prodigalfather1 So, basically I have a problem with religion in general. And Christianity. That isn't why I am an atheist although. I am an atheist because I have adopted a skeptic's mentality. Without physical evidence, I quite frankly will deny any claim that sounds remotely like magic. That goes for ALL of the thousands of religions. and thousands of Gods
1 minute and 30 seconds... That's how much I was able to watch before I found it too douchy to sit and watch atheism being treated as an underground movement...
@lakshen47 ".....sit and watch atheism being treated as an underground movement"
The dark dungeons of cyberspace have always been the preferred domain of the "god-slaying dragons" who consol each other as they wait for ultimate oblivion in their version of God's waiting room.
@lakshen47 “Show me the proof” Well long before modern science buried “naturalism” as a plausible explanation for our finite rationally intelligible universe, I always knew God through life’s experience. If your deepest humanity is not touched by God in this sad but triumphant story (/watch?v=BewknNW2b8Y) then u truly r “a bunch of selfish genes fighting for survival in a world of pitiless indifference.”
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4:8)
@Gericho49 I just saw the whole thing, and it really touched my heart... But that has nothing to do with god, that is my purest admiration for that guy... To bring it to is the diminish his efforts...
And it is very possible to love without believing in god...
@AntiFaithNY Don’t ya just love when it’s in ya face! I mean its constantly in the news, there’s the dedicated TV channels & ad’s & billboards. Then there’s all the versions each with their own idols that people worship & claim their own. The newspapers are full of it. It has overpowered my life, I cant escape it at work where it’s debated ad nauseam. Next they’ll be knocking at my door to join the local club. And I HATE the way it’s become a ‘religion’ for many followers. What is it?
cont;d NO its not religion but football which makes the media coverage of religion look like a dirty subway hoarding. But no I dont bother to watch any form of football, read about it b/c it has no bearing on my worldview, nor affects the hope meaning & purpose that religion offers me.
If the concept of God bothers u to the point that the sight of a billboard or grave stone with a cross on it sends u into convulsions I suggest u join an occult club b/c u are far beyond the Atheists' Manifesto.
@EvolvedSkeptic "You DONT KNOW these realities (scientific laws, logic, abstract math) pre-existed man".
Oh yes I do b/c they were discovered NOT INVENTED! Gravity defined planetary motion in terms of abstract math formulae long before an ape evolved an intelligent brain. The question for u is "did that inherent intelligence have an ultimate cause or did it evolve from or to mindless matter? If u choose the latter ur saying the cake created itself as well as its own recipe & ingredients.
@MrAnthonyfilms Nature is just the atheists' name for God. If not God as creator the default for atheism is matter & energy. But matter & energy are neither eternal nor intelligent, nor can they create immaterial scientific laws, abstract math & logic (metaphysical realities) that define our intelligible universe.The existence of intelligence in the universe that man (a socalled cosmic accident) can himself decipher, is prima-face evidence for an immaterial intelligent 1st cause.
@Prodigalfather1 nope, god is the name given to nature by theist who think that just because they don't have a legitimate explanation, it must be a supernatural being.
@MrAnthonyfilms “It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life and the universe, one must ask WHY and not just HOW. The only possible answers are religious.Arthur L. Schawlow, 1981 Nobel Prize in physics. "We know that nature is described by the best of all possible maths because it does not have a natural explanation.” Russian Mathematician Alexander Polyakov. "there is reason to believe a Super Intelligect has monkeyed with physics." Sir Fred Hoyle Want dozens more?
Edward Robert Harrison, Cosmologist and astronomer “Here (BB theory) is the cosmological proof of the existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one." “The laws of physics are balanced on a razor’s edge for life to occur. Change just 1 constant-no universe, no life.” Prof. Robin Collins
“When confronted with the order&beauty of the universe & the strange coincidences of nature, it’s very tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am sure many physicists want to. I only wish they'd admit it.” –Physicist Tony Rothman, post-doctoral fellow at Oxford University. Erwin Shrodinger, famous quantum physicist: "Science puts everything in a consistent order but is ghastly silent about everything that matters to us: ethics, beauty color taste, pain, origins & God
@Prodigalfather1 oh so we were made to praise a god? so god made an animal to praise him? what a d bag. there doesnt HAVE to be a reason. and we don't KNOW the reason. and even if you disprove every scientific theory ever.. you still havent even come CLOSE to proving your mythology.
@MrAnthonyfilms u refuse to address or challenge any of his arguments The assertion is that modern science buried “naturalism” as a plausible explanation for our finite rationally intelligible universe. if u disagree with the references given, state why and supply some of your own, otherwise get over it and live your life as if someone cares.even if u think it has no ultimate purpose.,
@Gericho49 his arguments are all bullshit, theres no need to address them. its all quote mining and fallible logic. he's basically saying "since we dont know what created us, god did it." something that stupid doesnt need to be addressed.
@MrAnthonyfilms Any one can say an argument is all BS but if ur going to say it commits logical fallacies u need to do more than just say so. There were a number of quotes from eminent scientists who conclude that naturalism is the least plausible explanation for our finite rationally intelligible universe. If u disagree say why. I am quite convinced that for every person strongly swayed by rational argument there are many,like urself affected by non-rational psychological factors
@Prodigalfather1 ok, lets assume naturalism is the most ridiculous idea ever (which is isnt, because it's the idea that we can only truly believe what we can prove, which is right), does that mean that theism is a much better idea? theism is stupid as fuck. its the belief that a magical man that always existed created 300 sextillian stars all so he can have one species on one planet worship him. that's the stupidest shit ive ever heard.
@MrAnthonyfilms Do u praise, honour love & obey your parents? Or are u like many well known atheists who have a non-existent or estranged father/son relationship. Google psychology of atheism.
Then read the Parable of the Prodigal Son and tell the sort of God Jesus describes in this story.
@MrAnthonyfilms So u dont know but "God didnt do it"? Attaching the personality of God, is hardly a rebuttal for any of these quotes nor does it challenge or refute God's existence.
How does your materialistic reductionism answer your deepest longings or any questions worth asking. The fact that u are obessessed with a God that taunts your every waking moment is prime face evidence for his existence.
@Gericho49 i don't have to refute gods existence when no evidence has been presented for his existence, just like i don't need to refute the existence of unicorns.
and im not obsessed with god, way to present a shitty nonsensical strawman.
"a fool says in his heart that the 4000 year old canaanite war god, yahweh, is the creator of everything"
@AntiFaithNY Sorry but I see a lot of sad, angry bitter people who claim lack of faith but then attack those who suggest their lives have meaning purpose & destiny, often with profanities. I therefore apologize to those generally seeking truth for man's greatest issue-the Supernatural & life after death. And yes u do need to believe in God to account for the problem of evil, b/c it cant exist within the atheists worldview. I'll PM u to explain why..
The bible says that the majority is going to hell, looking at this video confirms that this statement is not too far fetched. Occultists know that God exists but refuse to follow him, Atheists just simply reject that he exists. I don't know which is more foolish. God Bless all of my heavenly fathers children.
@MsKevenConner "The bible says that the majority is going to hell" Care to quote where this is claimed & if so in what historical & cultural context. Nowhere in the NT does jesus condemn anyone individual outright. I would say that The Parable of the Prodigal Son reveals a God of infinite love & mercy as well as patience. Neither does it codmen my theory of our continued journey beyond the grave. Is there hope for Baal, I believe there may well be.
@AntiFaithNY Care to supply a peer-reviewd scientific paper that makes this claim. What will u plead when u get taken by a pack of wild dogs, a shark or crocodile & they starts eating u alive? The law of the jungle is the survival of the fittest. Man has abandoned God & taken on his own created idols of power, ego, greed, dishonesty, corruption, violence & sex all because it gives him pleasure & survival advantage. If atheism is true, those that suffered under Mao or Stalin will know no justice!
@AntiFaithNY "Maybe you should go live in a theocracy like Pakistan."
I have seen what the real world is like under communism by living & working in China for several years. It was anything but "good news for the poor". The total lack of freedom of speech, the injustices and persecutions would hardly qualify it as a religion nor would its ruthless leader(s) claim devine guidance. Theres a saying about absolute power but any attempt to associate it with omnipotence or immortality is a delusion.
@AntiFaithNY Of course created gods were common in pagan cultures which were condemned by Genesis enunciating an anti-idolatry principle that “created things” cant be eternal or divine. Nothing much has changed man has been trying to deify himself ever since Adam & Eve. Current idols worshipped by man include power, ego, greed, wealth, drugs, sex, gambling sport etc. u can loosely call a power-crazed dictatorship a religion, whose followers worship or "disappear", but most see it 4 what it is.
@AntiFaithNY It certainly does! You must be a disciple of Chris Hitchens since u quote him verbatim. He uses this same lame twisted argument to lambast religion for all the sins of godless ideologies under Stalin Hitler, Poll Pott Saddam, Gadaffi, Mao etc etc. Hitchens even suggests that the atheist Soviet tyranny was itself a form of religion.
One cant argue against this sort of circular absolutism that DEIFIES a self-proclaimed DESPOT & defines its ideology as a religion.
If atheism is true then the universe is without purpose & nothing in it could ever suggest it has no purpose. By even questioning God's existence u are confirming that our purely physical world of matter & energy is NOT all there is. Since we both know that metaphysical realities do exist then a non-contingent ultimate reality is the only plausible explanation
@AntiFaithNY If u dont like the politics, the policies or the party supported by a Christian majority I suggest u either vote them out or move to China or Nth korea where your freedom of speech, gay rights, abortion on demand are sacrosanct LOL!! What values do u despise in Courtrooms, education etc- equality, honesty, compassion, non-violence, generosity & love of neighbour? We Christians arent perfect, some even need a kick in the butt BUT dont judge all religion by xenophobic extremists.
@AntiFaithNY If evil exists then there is compelling evidence that God exists. Unlike the animal kingdom which is amoral, God's morality is written on our hearts & deep down we all know it. If atheism is true, then morality is just illusory, the product of socio-biological evolution, & it matters not whether u live a life as a motherTeresa or Adoft Hitler "The law of selection justifies this incessant struggle, the weak should perish allowing the survival of the fittest.”
@EvolvedSkeptic Your characterization of compelling arguments that point to a supreme intelligence as the only plausible explanation, do nothing to for your rejection of metaphysical realities. The only way u can reject an ultimate immaterial cause is to say that logic, abstract math, reason & intelligence are contingent realities generated by mere chemical reactions in brain tissue. But we both know that these realities pre-existed man & therefore necessiate an ultimate cause.
@EvolvedSkeptic As I see it, a "survival machine" has to say that all reality is just mindless matter in motion. All ur doing is setting up a "Science of the Gaps" by putting blind faith in science to answer all questions (Q) worth asking. But as Nobel laureate Sir Peter Medawar says Q about origins, purpose & destiny are beyond science and any advance that science can make. If u agree with atheist Peter Atkins, "why Q's are silly questions." But "why" Q's r part of the fabric of our humanity.
@EvolvedSkeptic "Show me the proof!" Can u handle the proof? What kind of material proof would u expect for an immaterial reality? If atheism is true everything is just matter & energy, physics & chemistry, molecules in motion. But we both know that intelligent, non-contingent universal realities like scientific laws, logic & abstract math do exist. Unless u claim that knowledge comes from rocks, there has to be an ultimate cause and source of all reality & knowledge. Can u handle the proof?
I was indoctrinated as a child for roman catholicism but I can say I never truly believed. However I can truly say, I have become a better person as an Atheist than I ever was as a 'beleiver'. Atheism has given me the power to do well as a person - a human being. I am good cause I want to bo good, not cause I am scared of eternal punishment and damnation.
@nett103 If u want to be "de-baptised" u can join a ritual ceremony but 1st I suggest u read "The Atheists Manifesto" or "The Atheists' Bible" both of which will give u a totally unbiased view. And if u believe that u'd believe anything.
"Atheism has given me the power" really? - their worldview is that ur just a "survival machine", a collocation of atoms, "a cosmic accident" with no hope, no meaning & no escape. Such a worldview leads to :unyielding despair" so says Bertrand Russell. cont'd
@nett103 From Sam Harris, "we have to be unremittingly honest, We seek pleasant sights, and sounds, and tastes, and sensations, and attitudes. We satisfy our intellectual curiosities, and our desire for friendship, but our pleasures are, by their very nature, fleeting. We can do nothing more than merely reiterate them as often as we are able. If we enjoy some great professional success, our feelings of accomplishment remain vivid and intoxicating for about AN HOUR. What then-oblivion?
Religious people have a lot to loose if they suddenly say there is no God. Once again the Ego gets in the way. Always having to right about an argument. Like older guy said show me the evidence? What!! Show us the evidence of God or admit that there is no God. Oh and by the way saying that I feel it in my heart is not evidence.
@baxtar1963 Anti-religious people have a lot to lose if they suddenly say there is one true God. Suddenly their life has purpose but their created gods like ego, power sex become idols.If atheism is true 1) nothing exists beyond the physical (only matter & energy) 2) There can be no spiritual dimension to reality 3) any immaterial reality is just invented by man or illusory.But complex metaphysical realities like abstract math do exists which are not just chemical reactions in brain matter.
cont'd • Since nothing brings itself into existence, the intelligence shown in metaphysics is compelling evidence for a supremely intelligent cause. If theism is true, 1)the universe has been created for a purpose 2)it would be finite in the past, exhibiting incredible design & predictability 3) an intelligent creature would emerge to observe the universe 2b rationally intelligible 4)Such a creature would be blessed with free will&reason, ability to grieve, dream, hope & to love.
@phenomballer666 A worldview becomes a religion when it attempts to explain reality, consciousness & man’s endless search for meaning, origins and destiny. Nearly all of which are metaphysical claims and thus beyond the realms of science. While claiming to be grounded on scientific facts, atheism in reality, has a firm faith base in naturalism or materialism which they asset will eventually explain the everything, including the ultimate origin of the universe & its finite origin.
contd, Despite claiming a non-position or “lack of belief”, Atheists freely express unsolicited, often belligerent opinions, on the existence & nature of God & morality. Given the millions debating God on 1000s of websites which seek followers & donations ,the abundance of resources, billboard ad's, ritual de-baptisms, conventions, clearly atheism has taken on all the trappings of a religion. It is an ideology gathering membership & momentum. Perhaps u can be de-converted to materialism too?
@Gericho49 You are in idiot. People like you who can't comprehend words because of an internal problem bother me. All of those things you mentioned are philosophical questions not religious ones. The difference is faith vs. reason.
@phenomballer666 What words? By resorting to insults all u show is intellectual impotence. An argument is based on premises and conclusions backed up with verifiable data & evidence. By claiming that atheists have a firm opinion on "the existence & nature of God & morality" I am claiming that these are existential & theological issues that are outside the domain of a purely naturalistic wordlview. There is compelling evidence for God from all disciplines not least, reason, science & philosophy.
If there is scientific evidence showing God is real then atheists are wrong, right? Quantum physicists can show evidence that God is real. If people don't understand the evidence then believe the physicists for their wisdom. Don't believe an atheist who lacks the understanding of this empirical evidence.
@FreeeeS The God debate is simple. If atheism is true then the brain is just a "collocation of atoms" (Russell) or "a bunch of selfish genes with no other purpose than survival" (Dawkins) So if the brain functions as a bunch of chemical reactions in a survival machine then all reality is reducible to mindless matter. Q1 are the abstract laws of science & Math invented or were they discovered? Q2 How does any intelligent immaterial reality exist in a universe of mindless matter &energy?
contd If atheism is true, the universe is just product of blind forces & mindless matter having no purpose or design. Why should it exist at all or possess abstract laws, & not be a random, chaotic mess of noxious swirling gases; meaningless tragedies are exactly what one would expect. Since it has no meaning, no mind would evolve to ever deduce it has no meaning. If any life were possible it would evolve thru blind chance as molecules & selfish genes. There would be no meaning no hope no escape
If theism is true, 1)the universe has been created for a purpose 2)it would be finite in the past, exhibiting incredible design & predictability 3) an intelligent creature would emerge to observe the universe 2b rationally intelligible 4)Such a creature would be blessed with free will&reason, ability to grieve, dream, hope & to love 5) the issue of a personal God & transcendent meaning would be the most compelling issue dominating all human history. 6)life would have ultimate meaning & destiny.
So ww3 is going to be belivers vs atheists? what a load of shit, i backed away from atheism as soon as when i realised that the system does promote it, and christians and belivers are the systems enemy and the system is called the new world order
All worldviews are built on what we DO believe not what we dont. I dont believe in aliens but I have no desire or interest in setting up websites, billboards, hold convention to de-convert believers or fellowship with likeminded skeptics. In fact I am quite happy to remain totally oblivious to any claims that UFO societies make. The existence or non-existence of aliens is totally irrelevant to a persons sanity.
@Neosaigo Atheists are just normally evolved ape cousins in a jungle that is amoral, where one bunch of selfish genes destroys another all in the name of survival. "Some will have misfortune & others will get lucky & there will be no rhyme nor reason to it" "There is no good, no evil just blind pitiless indifference" (Dawkins). If this describes your worldview, u truly are an atheist. But if u worry about injustices even in nature, then we both have a conscience that cries out for justice
@Neosaigo "None of the religious dogmas exist in atheism" Ever heard of the "Atheists Bible"? All worldviews attempt to make sense of reality, our existence, man's purpose & destiny in a world full of incongruencies.
"It can be a wonderful feeling." According to Bertrand Russell, if one is brutally honest, atheism can only offer "unyielding despair" since in a cosmic nanosecond, death will be like u never existed. So u try 2 give urself tiny little meanings within a paradygm of meaninglessness.
I dont like rap but i will by that guys album.
tapesquare 3 months ago
The narrator has an awesome accent.
xAmpersand 3 months ago
@xAmpersand i agree
Pinoylegend707 3 months ago
Hale to the god of atheism! Lol
OneNationUnderCanada 4 months ago
@OneNationUnderCanada
there is only one god and his name is brahma . he is the square root of the aryan , he is the square root of western construction and science , he is the square root of all creation , he is the square root of all healthy media .
ukgreaterlondon 3 months ago
@OneNationUnderCanada Who is Hale? Saxton Hale? Is he the god of atheism?
MacheteSquad 1 month ago
what atheist EVER said anything about punishment by death for believing in a god? What a ridiculous statement. We don't want to kill anybody, quite the opposite. We just want to end the stupidity. Or did I get it wrong? The religious nuts want to kill us? Not that surprising.
nancy6ify 4 months ago
what atheist EVER said anything about punishment by death for believing in a god? What a ridiculous statement. We don't want to kill anybody, quite the opposite. We just want to end the stupidity.
nancy6ify 4 months ago
good documentary!!! no need to tell me that god doesn't exist...
trailerfitter2 4 months ago
In my honest opinion (with all respect and care for every human being regardless of their beliefs) religion is merely what we want to believe.
A world of meaning as a meaningless world is depressing.
A heaven after life as no after life appears depressing
A god to turn to regardless as the world can be a hating depressing world sometimes.
Of course this theory seems nice, I certainly wish it was true. I honestly believe in science and that religion is only what we want to believe.
deanmullen10 5 months ago
proselytizing unbelief. selling zero. ironic.
lovellespice 5 months ago in playlist News documentary about atheism
To be honest, if people come up with ludicrous ideas that atheists "pray" to Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennet or Harris, then I reserve the right to address the Pope as Pissmidget (with capital P) from now on.
avdmeers 5 months ago
lolz at punishable by death...as if religion was not doing this since it existed...
wertyty 5 months ago
One's choice in religion is personal; and shouldn't be interfered by others. If one chooses to be a deist or an atheist; no one should stop him. Freedom of religion is key to a peaceful living.
Zenoniel 5 months ago
@Zenoniel but sadly that can never happen since one group will become the majority and chase the others out
KimaYamara 5 months ago
as it was written in the bibLe, ANTICHRISTS wiLL rise in the Last days....everything written in the bibLe is now occuring as it was predicted. after seeing this, I STRONGLY BELIEVE NOW THAT THERE IS A GOD.
lebronjordan3 5 months ago
I'm catholic and I believe that as long as you believe that there is in any way shape or form at least one exsistent god you won't go to hell. I mean disagree with me if you want to but that's just my personal opinion.
MrMetallicakid13 6 months ago
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@MrMetallicakid13 So if you worship Satan you will go to heaven. Perfect!
bmehoota 5 months ago
Religious arguments for the existance of god(s).
Argument 1: I see (some) beautifull things in nature, ergo god(s) exists.
Argument 2: I don`t understand how things work, ergo god(s) exists.
Argument 3: Even you can`t explain how some things work,ergo god(s) exists.
Argument 4: I want to believe that god exists, ergo god(s) exists.
Thats it. Those are the arguments. Well that just won`t do. Ergo, I`m an atheist.
Koekjedrbij1 6 months ago
@Koekjedrbij1 “Show me the proof? this is the best gotcha argument for atheism!!” "hehehe, I know the theist cant show me a material proof for an immaterial reality."
Well yes there is no direct physical evidence for God just as there is NO scientific model for any of the things in life that really matter: wisdom, love, hope, compassion, intuition and many other abstract realities that define the human heart.
"The glory of God is seen in the heavens & earth reveals the work of his hands"
Gericho49 5 months ago
@Koekjedrbij1 If u have 2 spent half your ultimately meaningless life defending a non belief in a reality for which there is no evidence that just proves u cant life without God. I have a non-belief in aliens, astrology, the occult but I dont have to prove it to myself b/c they have no bearing on my worldview which gives me hope, meaning fulfilmet & destiny.
3000yrs ago the Psalmist wrote "A fool in his heart says there is no God" I guess that makes atheism a bronze age myth?
Gericho49 5 months ago
@Koekjedrbij1 atheist/agnostics quotes
1.) "Nature is far more beautiful than we have any right to expect" Henry F. Schaefer
2) Nature is defined by the best of all mathematics b/c it doesnt have a naturalistic explanation"Alexander Polyakov
3) "there is reason to believe a Super Intelligence has monkeyed with physics." Fred Hoyle: English astronomer, mathematician .
4) God didnt do it
Gericho49 5 months ago
Alex Vilenkin, Russian cosmologist "With the proof now in place, current cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape: we have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning." Erwin Shrodinger, quantum physicist: "Science puts everything in a consistent order but is ghastly silent about everything that matters to us: ethics, beauty color taste, pain & delight, meaning & God. What is a scientific model for love, wisdom or hope?
Gericho49 5 months ago
@HardlineAthiest
Never mind the fundy new age mystical freakfucks you're arguing with are far too gone, let them run in circles like fools.
Very soon, all the religious new age fundy freaks will be systematically eradicated, giving rise to the inevitable utopia of free-thought, science and reason to come.
We're setting stage for global world peace through a newly unified system of governance that puts men before mysticism and snuffs out the lives and tenants of all who oppose our godless values.
organizedatheism 6 months ago
@organizedatheism "We're setting stage for global world peace through a newly unified system"
I guess "with God out of the way all things are possibe"? That would explain why the world is financially, morally & spiritually bankrupt and greed & corruption are endemic.
No doubt Mao, Stalin, Pol pot, Edi amin & Kim Jong ill had the same new world order in mind when they eradicated 100million who didnt agree with their godless worldview?
"Atheism is a necessary component of our program." Lenin 1920
Gericho49 5 months ago
FUCK RELIGEON!
vicspecial1 6 months ago
god is a comunist,love him or your fucked
zvoninemir90 6 months ago
@BiblePreacher889 So religion is based not even on the limited education of semi-illiterate goat herders but just on the very limited cranium-capacity Neanderthals?
I knew it.
TomFynn 6 months ago
i wish there was a god!!
AlexCananC 6 months ago
Religion should be something personal, as soon as it gets organized, things go wrong and people tell other people what to do and HOW to believe ...
AtheistBelgium 6 months ago
Here is what you have to believe: The creator of the universe (in between contemplating supernovas and the gravitational constant) mysteriously influences a superstitious and mostly illiterate band of goat herders, enforces genocide, hatred, and the degradation of women. Then he sends his son to earth to undergo a human sacrifice and warns he will return someday to orchestrate the end of human history, sending billions of innocent people to hell forever.
Does anyone see a problem with this?
northoforacle 6 months ago 2
@northoforacle a quote from "Atheism 101 for Dummies."?
Gericho49 5 months ago
It's sad that there are so many bigots / atheists...
dex1391 6 months ago
@dex1391 then what's a christian? You're book supports murder, rape and the murder of first born children. Religion is a poison that needs to be purged. I can understand why you believe in something, but it doesn't mean that I have to respect it.
Androidindisguise 6 months ago
@Androidindisguise
LOL what book? When you bigots say foolish things like that it only hurts your cause.
dex1391 6 months ago
@dex1391 It's sad that there are so many bigots / theists...
bicokun 6 months ago
@bicokun
You do realize that's backwards right?
dex1391 6 months ago
Embrace doubt.
BohemianBlasphemy 6 months ago
If there weren't extremist threatening us with death we might have left people who believe in an imaginary friend alone. It is easy to recognize who the true evil is.
loxidon667 6 months ago
@AntiFaithNY I know how you feel there are like 20 churches in my small town
FutureScience2012 6 months ago
@iliveon "Love is in the brain, maths are in the brain, .." So without a brain there would be no scientific laws, abstract math or logic? Of course the atheist has to say they were invented not discovered.Nothing illustrates more clearly how intractable a problem the data is for some who interpret or refuse to accept data that doesn’t permit a naturalistic explanation.How does the latter explain the absurdly complex math that defined the universe long before man evolved a brain to marvel at it?
Prodigalfather1 6 months ago
“Show me the proof” Well long before modern science buried “naturalism” as a plausible explanation for our finite rationally intelligible universe, I always knew God through life’s experience. If your deepest humanity is not touched by God in this sad but triumphant story (/watch?v=BewknNW2b8Y) then u truly r “a bunch of selfish genes fighting for survival in a world of pitiless indifference.”
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4:8)
Gericho49 7 months ago
@AntiFaithNY It is not all a bunch of shit. Some of it is a pot of piss.
Strangerinasland 7 months ago
@AntiFaithNY And we're supposed to be civilized & advanced & better than superstitious people.
Strangerinasland 7 months ago
I was surprised at how many people I speak to don't believe in a god.
I realize that I know very few people convinced of a god.
Paetaor 7 months ago
this is a sad news report...those poor young kids being fed lies...man these people..
ONFIREFORJESUS247 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 I was a Christian, no longer can I maintain belief without evidence. I feel perfectly fine to say "I will be going to the afterlife that ghandi is going to" Because a great moral teacher like Ghandi wasn't christian, nor is it moral to send Ghandi to hell. As an atheist, I will join in with the majority of eminent scientists and Ghandi and God can send me to hell if he wants, if he does he's immoral. Good thing there isn't much evidence for such a sick, disgusting place
iliveon 7 months ago
@iliveon Moses & Abraham werent Christians. Those who embrace Christian values (read Sermon on the Mount), follow their conscience, live the golden rule, are more worthy of redemption than those who are psuedo "Sunday" Christians. The God Jesus describes in the Parable of the Prodigal Son is one of infinite, mercy, patience & love. I too embrace many insights given by eminent scientists & Nobel laureates about our finite rationally intelligible, life-permitting universe and ask "WHY?"
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 Moses and abraham were prophets, of course they were led by God God talked to these guys
At least that is what man claims. And if God can show himself to others and they go to heaven, why can't God show himself to us?
I ask why as well, but I don't just listen to every monotheistic religion, nor do I listen to polytheistic religions.
I find myself, being a part of the universe, to find it amazing that apart of the universe can inquire on its own existence.
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 So yeah, I reject all of this man-made stuff and I stick to what can be confirmed. I will go to hell like Ghandi is because without faith, you cannot please God
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. Hebrews
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 Its far too hard for me to believe in walking on water and such. Even a personal relationship seems absurd, because all I do is talk to myself. And I find it possible that so many people can be Christians and feel this way because I understand psychology and I see other religions do the same things. They delude themselves and I think Christians do the same. And thus the largest barriers of humankind
iliveon 7 months ago
@iliveon " Its far too hard for me to believe in walking on water and such." Dont worry many atheists look at miracles like the ressurection, life after death and say, impossible. They assume that God cant possibly exit so everything that follows is delusional. Hitchens uses the same circular logic when he looks at religious claims and concludes that God doesnt exit. So God doesnt exist therefore all religions are delusional. From which he concludes that God cant exist
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
u seem to be a genuine seeker of truth unlike many of the sad, bitter God-haters who dot the dungeons of cyberspace with their vitriol. Can I ask u if u believe 1)everything (all reality) in the universe is material? 2)everything can or will be explained by science? 3) does finding mechanisms for planetary motion or the biodiversity of life answer where they came from, WHY those mechanisms exist & obey abstract laws. 4) Does our finite intelligible universe exist necessarily or is it contigent?
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
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@Prodigalfather1 1)everything (all reality) in the universe is material? Yes, that is what we are made from, stardust
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 2)everything can or will be explained by science?
I believe everything that is within the size of being studied can be done so and I think God is a scientific question.
iliveon 7 months ago
@iliveon God can be inferred from science but the latter cannot explain God anymore than it can explain other immaterial realities that exude intelligience like abstract maths, logic, love, morality goodness, evil hope.etc
Gericho49 7 months ago
@Gericho49 "God can be inferred from science"
The smartest people think science and faith are separate.
"explain other immaterial realities that exude intelligience like abstract maths, logic, love, morality goodness, evil hope.etc"
Love is in the brain, maths are in the brain, logic, morality, etc explained by interactions.
Goodness=interaction
evil=interaction, hope=brain
You are saying that concepts cannot be explained by science, well you are 100% wrong lol
iliveon 7 months ago
@iliveon "maths are in the brain" Mans ability to play with figures and come up with wrong answers is indicative of our flawed intellect. That would hardly explain WHY all the scientific laws that define our finite, life-permitting universe are underpinned by equations whose elegance challenges the greatest minds in search of the correct answers. Without God theres no logical reason that a physical universe should be defined by abtract math formulae, billions of yrs before man evolved a brain!
Gericho49 5 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 3) does finding mechanisms for planetary motion or the biodiversity of life answer where they came from, WHY those mechanisms exist & obey abstract laws.
Finding mechanisms explain reality and them following the natural laws.. is well.. natural. Why they exist is a natural thing. I say they exist because that is nature
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 4) Does our finite intelligible universe exist necessarily or is it contigent?
Necessarily. There was no chance of having a different possibility
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 God is the sad bitter hater.
Strangerinasland 7 months ago
@iliveon Many demand "Show me the proof” Well long before modern science buried “naturalism” as a plausible explanation for our finite, rationally intelligible universe, I always knew God through life’s experience. If your deepest humanity is not touched by God in this sad, but triumphant story (/watch?v=BewknNW2b8Y) then u truly r “a bunch of selfish genes fighting for survival in a world of pitiless indifference.”
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4:8)
Gericho49 7 months ago
@iliveon If u start with God doesnt exist then everything else must logically follow. Have u ever embraced the logical implications of ur worldview? The most ridiculous of all is that atheists must have blind faith in naturalism to explain a finite, rationally intelligible universe defined by NON-material laws & a set of exquisite equations. They do so in spite of numerous eminent scientists & Nobel laurates who assert that it is the least plausible explanation is NATURALISM.
Prodigalfather1 6 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 The higher you get in education the more atheistic it gets. College professors tend to be more atheistic. Secular nations, western nations, tend to be more atheistic than nations that haven't caught up industrially or scientifically. The top scientists involved in Royal society and national academy tend to be highly atheistic compared to the less educated. There aren't non-material laws. These "laws" as you put it don't exist. Just like numbers don't exist outside of items
iliveon 6 months ago
@iliveon Where did u get those statistics? I have dozens of quotes from Nobel laureates claiming that increasingly, "naturalism" is failing as an explanation for our finite rationally intelligible universe. Give me some quotes from atheist philosophers or scientists who can explain WHY the universe is rationally comprehensible, obeys abstract laws, is defined by absurdly narrow life-permitting physical constants. Give me a scientific model for wisdom, morality, hope, love. Where is the evidence?
Gericho49 5 months ago
@Gericho49 Morality obviously is within animal species. It is a concept that we explain our actions by. Wisdom is a concept meaning what someone knows through time. Hope is a concept that explains ... well.. hope. dogs have hope. love.. dogs have love. Its an emotion, a concept that explains how we feel towards one another. and it is in the brain. I'll be back later to show you where I got the statistics. One is from social science research thingy, the others are from newyorktimes and such
iliveon 5 months ago
@iliveon Objective Morality in ur worldview is just illusory. When u cease to exist (in a cosmic nanosec) what will it matter if u lived as a Adoft Hitler or Mother Teresa? The animal kingdom is TOTALLY amoral. An ape who tears the offspring of a rival limb from limb is not murderer, it's just nature's way of assuring the survival of the species. Love, wisdom hope are like God, IMMATERIAL realities. Atheism demands that everything that exists in a material universe is logically material/physical
Gericho49 5 months ago
@Gericho49 No, atheism does not require that. Atheist Buddhists don't believe in gods, but they believe in souls and some people believe in reincarnation, etc and they are atheists. I don't care that my morality is my own. My morality is based off of a rational weighing of what is good and what is bad, nothing about a sky daddy giving me instructions, but I can be good without God and that is where I am more moral than a theist. Because I act good for goodness's sake
iliveon 5 months ago 2
@Gericho49 and quotes honestly do not help your case. percentages do.
iliveon 5 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 What are the logical implications that you can prove with logic of my worldview
iliveon 6 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 That I believe I will live once and only once? That I should value this life if I could value something at all? That I am a social species that gets along and survives only with friends and family. That I don't believe in a God that performs miracles for me, so that I can make medicine and use natural resources to do the best I can with them and not be self-centered in thinking the universe is all about me? Tell me with logic the implications that I should follow
iliveon 6 months ago
its amazing!!! almost all black atheists talk "white'" for lack of a better term.
mattplasse88 7 months ago 2
@AntiFaithNY For a minute I thought u had a civilized tongue in ur head but then alas...!
I also dont like they way some fundamentalists interpret the Bible but they have just as much right as us to express their opinions in print & at the ballot box. But I'd prefer a church going fundamentalist family living next door anytime to a despicable one, on the TV news hunting as a pack to pilfer retail stores. If ur all for gay rights or abortion join ur own political party or move overseas.
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
" you keep it the fuck out of science"
The proof for God is simple because of the absurdity of the alternative. If there's no spiritual dimension to existence then EVERYTHING is reducible to mindless matter &energy. But matter is not eternal in the past & highly complex, immaterial realities like scientific laws, abstract maths, numbers, logic and other non-contingent, metaphysical concepts DO exist Therefore compelling evidence for a non-contingent, spiritual agent that transcends matter.
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
Hilbert, one of the greatest mathemeticians of the 20th century said, “The infinite as in infinite past time is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite…is solely that of an idea…”
“It may seem bizarre, but science offers a surer path to God than religion.” –Astro-Physicist Paul Davies in his book God and the New Physics.
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
Albert Einstein: “I am not an atheist, and I cant call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.”
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 "I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts."
Tell me where he says he believes in a God who intervenes, sent his son, judges souls, etc? He is a hell of a scientist and open to the question like MOST atheists. absence of belief
iliveon 7 months ago
@iliveon My quote from Eintein was late in his life. True the concept of a comprehensible universe as well as a supreme author of our rationally intelligible universe, troubled him deeply. Einstien came to realise that science & no advance in science can ever answer the "why" questions which permeate human existence. Einstein also said that when a scientist puts on a philosopher's cap he's just as dumb as anyone. Hawking please take note. ps atheism is NOT absence of belief!
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 "I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind
Where here does it say he believes in a God? Look up Spinoza's God? It means an ABSTRACT God, not a real one. He therefore believes in none, so get your stuff right
There is so much against your proposition its not funny and quit quote mining. It gets you nowhere, especially when I can look what you say up
iliveon 7 months ago
@iliveon Your limited conceptualization of God has no bearing on his existence or nature. Can u conceive of a father who loves his children, wants them to freely choose what is best for themselves & their own love ones? Do u love your children unconditionally?
Read the Parable of the Prodigal Son if u want the essence of Christianity and the nature of God in one complete short story. This is the God I know and love.
Take care & keep searching, the truth will set u free.
Deo gratias
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
The most compelling evidence for God is not the truth of the Bible, the archoelogical, scientific & philosophical evidence, it's the number of taunted, obsessed deniars who cannot sleep thinking about the implications of God's (non)-existence. Some say they just "lack faith" but then waste their ultimately meaningless lives & every waking moment defending their non-belief. If u really are offended driving passed a cemetery with crosses for grave stones, then u really prove my point.
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 Stop lying to yourself. Christianity is called a FAITH. That's why in the Bible itself, the men wrote it specifically like this "Without Faith you can't please God"
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 Faith of a mustard seed make any sense to you?
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 Jesus has no unconditional love. He said "Take no thought for the morrow, leave your Jewish families. Turn the other cheek. What he needed to say was "Run from your enemies," "Take thought for tomorrow, I won't be torturing you in hell," "I won't destroy earth," "Don't leave your family, they need you."
JESUS' CONDITION FOR LOVE IS BLATANT: FAITH. Belief without evidence
There is no archaeological evidence that would prove that Jesus could walk on water, cure leprosy, born of
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 Born of a virgin, turns water into wine, transforms a little fish and bread to a lot of fish and bread, dies in a human sacrifice for sins? These things are preposterous to the modern world. The story book even skips from age 12 to 30 years of age without a word (similar to a story book, aint it)
Jesus would send you to FIRE AND TORTURE if you don't accept a book that was written 2 thousand years ago? What type of loving God uses fear tactics like this?
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 Tell me how ancient writtings written by so called prophets, and groups of in-charge men who put them in book form, the Bible, leaving many ancient writings out of it, means that we should run our lives by it? Tell me how. You first must accept that they were prophets, I don't and I don't trust man's inventions. The psychology of the many religions is clear. All it takes is trust in fellow man, group dynamics within church, and repeated chants and you will believe in anything
iliveon 7 months ago
@iliveon "Bible....why should we run our lives by it? " Take a look a round u!
The world is morally, spiritually & financially bankrupt. Christian values of tolerance, honesty, respect, generosity, compassion & LOVE are even more relevant today than when Jesus died for these values.
When I said many are tormented by the existence of God & the implications for their lives, your numerous posts prove it. Start with premise that God DOES exist & all your Qs r answered & ur insults are worthless
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 I don't have any insults. Secondly there are other religions that say the same thing. And there better morality books out there than the bible. Ones that don't talk about stoning unruly children, beating children (correlated with jail and other issues), stoning women who aren't virgins, scraping the foreskin off of young boys (in contrast to clitoris with Muslims), slavery of people from different nations, mass genocide of cities because there are nonbelievers, I could go on @on
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 Like I said, think of one thing immoral done in God's name. There, you've thought of one. Think of the morality that exist today compared to the morality of just a couple hundred years ago. Think about the morality that exist today compared with a thousand years ago. What about in Bible days, let's think of the morality.. Ok slavery.. stonings of children, bear, virgin captives.. mass animal sacrifice.. human sacrifice.. blood on alters.. spirits and demons, plagues
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 compared with today.. science.. increase in human awareness.. farming industry coupled with biogenetics.. skyscrapers.. international peace treaties.. global communication.eradication of diseases via medicine (not prayer).. leoprosy destroyed. No one is walking on water,but we sure are walking on the moon. Think of how silly the things of the bible sound to someonewho has walked on the moon. We have Ipods, C.E.R.N. facility, spacecraft, cellular phones. What is walking on water?
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 And yes I have deep problems with people following this book in modern day age. It has magic stories in it, horrible atrocities done by God (Jesus), and human sacrifice, talking animals, rape of thousands of woman, sexist discrimination all throughout, and a man willing to kill his own son revered by Christians. I find it sad to say that the same weirdness in Islam is the same weirdness in America. Religion. If you chant that God is great, you look through a narrow scope
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 You have people praying for their lives to be saved, the same people dying in horrible situations pray to this God. The woman who spent 24 years locked up in someone's basement. I'm sure she prayed to God. By a sheer accident, the man was too old by then, she was freed. You, as a Christian may say "don't worry, she'll be fine in the afterlife, and what she went through was all worth it, she'll go to heaven"
Can you be serious and think that God interferes?
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 If God existed, the world would be a totally different place. And if God existed, I'm sure he'd be smarter than human sacrifice in order to forget his own creation.
I rely on physical evidence for believing things and God is not outside the realm of science.Well, in a way, he's already been tested for. That was the 2.4 million dollar prayer study done by the John Templeton foundation. Turns out people who were prayed for didn't get better, and sometimes worse. Glad for medicine
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 And if you think a man, a preacher, of bronze age palastine, was the "son of God" I have to ask you this here. You believe the stories of him healing the blind, the sick, the afflicted.. If he was perfectly moral: Why didn't he create medicine and teach people how to cure sickness with medicine? So that he could grant humanity with something that would help them maybe until the end of time? Why did he have to "touch to heal" and why were his garments holy? He was supposedly God?
iliveon 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 So, basically I have a problem with religion in general. And Christianity. That isn't why I am an atheist although. I am an atheist because I have adopted a skeptic's mentality. Without physical evidence, I quite frankly will deny any claim that sounds remotely like magic. That goes for ALL of the thousands of religions. and thousands of Gods
iliveon 7 months ago
1 minute and 30 seconds... That's how much I was able to watch before I found it too douchy to sit and watch atheism being treated as an underground movement...
lakshen47 7 months ago
@lakshen47 ".....sit and watch atheism being treated as an underground movement"
The dark dungeons of cyberspace have always been the preferred domain of the "god-slaying dragons" who consol each other as they wait for ultimate oblivion in their version of God's waiting room.
pax vobiscum
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 The dark dungeons of cyberspace? All my friends are atheists, except one...
lakshen47 7 months ago
@lakshen47 “Show me the proof” Well long before modern science buried “naturalism” as a plausible explanation for our finite rationally intelligible universe, I always knew God through life’s experience. If your deepest humanity is not touched by God in this sad but triumphant story (/watch?v=BewknNW2b8Y) then u truly r “a bunch of selfish genes fighting for survival in a world of pitiless indifference.”
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4:8)
Gericho49 7 months ago
@Gericho49 I just saw the whole thing, and it really touched my heart... But that has nothing to do with god, that is my purest admiration for that guy... To bring it to is the diminish his efforts...
And it is very possible to love without believing in god...
lakshen47 7 months ago
@AntiFaithNY Don’t ya just love when it’s in ya face! I mean its constantly in the news, there’s the dedicated TV channels & ad’s & billboards. Then there’s all the versions each with their own idols that people worship & claim their own. The newspapers are full of it. It has overpowered my life, I cant escape it at work where it’s debated ad nauseam. Next they’ll be knocking at my door to join the local club. And I HATE the way it’s become a ‘religion’ for many followers. What is it?
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
cont;d NO its not religion but football which makes the media coverage of religion look like a dirty subway hoarding. But no I dont bother to watch any form of football, read about it b/c it has no bearing on my worldview, nor affects the hope meaning & purpose that religion offers me.
If the concept of God bothers u to the point that the sight of a billboard or grave stone with a cross on it sends u into convulsions I suggest u join an occult club b/c u are far beyond the Atheists' Manifesto.
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
@EvolvedSkeptic "You DONT KNOW these realities (scientific laws, logic, abstract math) pre-existed man".
Oh yes I do b/c they were discovered NOT INVENTED! Gravity defined planetary motion in terms of abstract math formulae long before an ape evolved an intelligent brain. The question for u is "did that inherent intelligence have an ultimate cause or did it evolve from or to mindless matter? If u choose the latter ur saying the cake created itself as well as its own recipe & ingredients.
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
"the whole of nature is an expression of the mind of god"
lmao.. do i even have to say anything?
MrAnthonyfilms 7 months ago
@MrAnthonyfilms Nature is just the atheists' name for God. If not God as creator the default for atheism is matter & energy. But matter & energy are neither eternal nor intelligent, nor can they create immaterial scientific laws, abstract math & logic (metaphysical realities) that define our intelligible universe.The existence of intelligence in the universe that man (a socalled cosmic accident) can himself decipher, is prima-face evidence for an immaterial intelligent 1st cause.
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 nope, god is the name given to nature by theist who think that just because they don't have a legitimate explanation, it must be a supernatural being.
MrAnthonyfilms 7 months ago
@MrAnthonyfilms “It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life and the universe, one must ask WHY and not just HOW. The only possible answers are religious.Arthur L. Schawlow, 1981 Nobel Prize in physics. "We know that nature is described by the best of all possible maths because it does not have a natural explanation.” Russian Mathematician Alexander Polyakov. "there is reason to believe a Super Intelligect has monkeyed with physics." Sir Fred Hoyle Want dozens more?
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
Edward Robert Harrison, Cosmologist and astronomer “Here (BB theory) is the cosmological proof of the existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one." “The laws of physics are balanced on a razor’s edge for life to occur. Change just 1 constant-no universe, no life.” Prof. Robin Collins
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
“When confronted with the order&beauty of the universe & the strange coincidences of nature, it’s very tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am sure many physicists want to. I only wish they'd admit it.” –Physicist Tony Rothman, post-doctoral fellow at Oxford University. Erwin Shrodinger, famous quantum physicist: "Science puts everything in a consistent order but is ghastly silent about everything that matters to us: ethics, beauty color taste, pain, origins & God
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 oh so we were made to praise a god? so god made an animal to praise him? what a d bag. there doesnt HAVE to be a reason. and we don't KNOW the reason. and even if you disprove every scientific theory ever.. you still havent even come CLOSE to proving your mythology.
MrAnthonyfilms 7 months ago
@MrAnthonyfilms u refuse to address or challenge any of his arguments The assertion is that modern science buried “naturalism” as a plausible explanation for our finite rationally intelligible universe. if u disagree with the references given, state why and supply some of your own, otherwise get over it and live your life as if someone cares.even if u think it has no ultimate purpose.,
Gericho49 7 months ago
@Gericho49 his arguments are all bullshit, theres no need to address them. its all quote mining and fallible logic. he's basically saying "since we dont know what created us, god did it." something that stupid doesnt need to be addressed.
MrAnthonyfilms 7 months ago
@MrAnthonyfilms Any one can say an argument is all BS but if ur going to say it commits logical fallacies u need to do more than just say so. There were a number of quotes from eminent scientists who conclude that naturalism is the least plausible explanation for our finite rationally intelligible universe. If u disagree say why. I am quite convinced that for every person strongly swayed by rational argument there are many,like urself affected by non-rational psychological factors
Prodigalfather1 6 months ago
@Prodigalfather1 ok, lets assume naturalism is the most ridiculous idea ever (which is isnt, because it's the idea that we can only truly believe what we can prove, which is right), does that mean that theism is a much better idea? theism is stupid as fuck. its the belief that a magical man that always existed created 300 sextillian stars all so he can have one species on one planet worship him. that's the stupidest shit ive ever heard.
MrAnthonyfilms 6 months ago
@MrAnthonyfilms Do u praise, honour love & obey your parents? Or are u like many well known atheists who have a non-existent or estranged father/son relationship. Google psychology of atheism.
Then read the Parable of the Prodigal Son and tell the sort of God Jesus describes in this story.
Prodigalfather1 6 months ago
@MrAnthonyfilms So u dont know but "God didnt do it"? Attaching the personality of God, is hardly a rebuttal for any of these quotes nor does it challenge or refute God's existence.
How does your materialistic reductionism answer your deepest longings or any questions worth asking. The fact that u are obessessed with a God that taunts your every waking moment is prime face evidence for his existence.
"A fool in his heart says there is no God"
Gericho49 5 months ago
@Gericho49 i don't have to refute gods existence when no evidence has been presented for his existence, just like i don't need to refute the existence of unicorns.
and im not obsessed with god, way to present a shitty nonsensical strawman.
"a fool says in his heart that the 4000 year old canaanite war god, yahweh, is the creator of everything"
MrAnthonyfilms 5 months ago
@AntiFaithNY Sorry but I see a lot of sad, angry bitter people who claim lack of faith but then attack those who suggest their lives have meaning purpose & destiny, often with profanities. I therefore apologize to those generally seeking truth for man's greatest issue-the Supernatural & life after death. And yes u do need to believe in God to account for the problem of evil, b/c it cant exist within the atheists worldview. I'll PM u to explain why..
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
I don't really like how they reported this at the beginning.
Keim4ever 8 months ago
there never was any god...
DaringNonconformer 8 months ago
The bible says that the majority is going to hell, looking at this video confirms that this statement is not too far fetched. Occultists know that God exists but refuse to follow him, Atheists just simply reject that he exists. I don't know which is more foolish. God Bless all of my heavenly fathers children.
MsKevenConner 8 months ago
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@MsKevenConner "The bible says that the majority is going to hell" Care to quote where this is claimed & if so in what historical & cultural context. Nowhere in the NT does jesus condemn anyone individual outright. I would say that The Parable of the Prodigal Son reveals a God of infinite love & mercy as well as patience. Neither does it codmen my theory of our continued journey beyond the grave. Is there hope for Baal, I believe there may well be.
Prodigalfather1 7 months ago
@AntiFaithNY
if you can't find happiness without someone else in charge of your life, I feel sorry for you.
ditto
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago
@AntiFaithNY Care to supply a peer-reviewd scientific paper that makes this claim. What will u plead when u get taken by a pack of wild dogs, a shark or crocodile & they starts eating u alive? The law of the jungle is the survival of the fittest. Man has abandoned God & taken on his own created idols of power, ego, greed, dishonesty, corruption, violence & sex all because it gives him pleasure & survival advantage. If atheism is true, those that suffered under Mao or Stalin will know no justice!
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago
@AntiFaithNY "Maybe you should go live in a theocracy like Pakistan."
I have seen what the real world is like under communism by living & working in China for several years. It was anything but "good news for the poor". The total lack of freedom of speech, the injustices and persecutions would hardly qualify it as a religion nor would its ruthless leader(s) claim devine guidance. Theres a saying about absolute power but any attempt to associate it with omnipotence or immortality is a delusion.
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago
@AntiFaithNY Of course created gods were common in pagan cultures which were condemned by Genesis enunciating an anti-idolatry principle that “created things” cant be eternal or divine. Nothing much has changed man has been trying to deify himself ever since Adam & Eve. Current idols worshipped by man include power, ego, greed, wealth, drugs, sex, gambling sport etc. u can loosely call a power-crazed dictatorship a religion, whose followers worship or "disappear", but most see it 4 what it is.
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago
@AntiFaithNY It certainly does! You must be a disciple of Chris Hitchens since u quote him verbatim. He uses this same lame twisted argument to lambast religion for all the sins of godless ideologies under Stalin Hitler, Poll Pott Saddam, Gadaffi, Mao etc etc. Hitchens even suggests that the atheist Soviet tyranny was itself a form of religion.
One cant argue against this sort of circular absolutism that DEIFIES a self-proclaimed DESPOT & defines its ideology as a religion.
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago
If atheism is true then the universe is without purpose & nothing in it could ever suggest it has no purpose. By even questioning God's existence u are confirming that our purely physical world of matter & energy is NOT all there is. Since we both know that metaphysical realities do exist then a non-contingent ultimate reality is the only plausible explanation
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago
@AntiFaithNY If u dont like the politics, the policies or the party supported by a Christian majority I suggest u either vote them out or move to China or Nth korea where your freedom of speech, gay rights, abortion on demand are sacrosanct LOL!! What values do u despise in Courtrooms, education etc- equality, honesty, compassion, non-violence, generosity & love of neighbour? We Christians arent perfect, some even need a kick in the butt BUT dont judge all religion by xenophobic extremists.
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago
@AntiFaithNY If evil exists then there is compelling evidence that God exists. Unlike the animal kingdom which is amoral, God's morality is written on our hearts & deep down we all know it. If atheism is true, then morality is just illusory, the product of socio-biological evolution, & it matters not whether u live a life as a motherTeresa or Adoft Hitler "The law of selection justifies this incessant struggle, the weak should perish allowing the survival of the fittest.”
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago
@EvolvedSkeptic Your characterization of compelling arguments that point to a supreme intelligence as the only plausible explanation, do nothing to for your rejection of metaphysical realities. The only way u can reject an ultimate immaterial cause is to say that logic, abstract math, reason & intelligence are contingent realities generated by mere chemical reactions in brain tissue. But we both know that these realities pre-existed man & therefore necessiate an ultimate cause.
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago
@EvolvedSkeptic As I see it, a "survival machine" has to say that all reality is just mindless matter in motion. All ur doing is setting up a "Science of the Gaps" by putting blind faith in science to answer all questions (Q) worth asking. But as Nobel laureate Sir Peter Medawar says Q about origins, purpose & destiny are beyond science and any advance that science can make. If u agree with atheist Peter Atkins, "why Q's are silly questions." But "why" Q's r part of the fabric of our humanity.
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago
@EvolvedSkeptic "Show me the proof!" Can u handle the proof? What kind of material proof would u expect for an immaterial reality? If atheism is true everything is just matter & energy, physics & chemistry, molecules in motion. But we both know that intelligent, non-contingent universal realities like scientific laws, logic & abstract math do exist. Unless u claim that knowledge comes from rocks, there has to be an ultimate cause and source of all reality & knowledge. Can u handle the proof?
Gericho49 8 months ago
I was indoctrinated as a child for roman catholicism but I can say I never truly believed. However I can truly say, I have become a better person as an Atheist than I ever was as a 'beleiver'. Atheism has given me the power to do well as a person - a human being. I am good cause I want to bo good, not cause I am scared of eternal punishment and damnation.
Thank you R. Dawkins, C. Hitchens, S, Harris.
nett103 8 months ago
@nett103 And Carl Sagan.
nett103 8 months ago
@nett103 If u want to be "de-baptised" u can join a ritual ceremony but 1st I suggest u read "The Atheists Manifesto" or "The Atheists' Bible" both of which will give u a totally unbiased view. And if u believe that u'd believe anything.
"Atheism has given me the power" really? - their worldview is that ur just a "survival machine", a collocation of atoms, "a cosmic accident" with no hope, no meaning & no escape. Such a worldview leads to :unyielding despair" so says Bertrand Russell. cont'd
Gericho49 8 months ago
@nett103 From Sam Harris, "we have to be unremittingly honest, We seek pleasant sights, and sounds, and tastes, and sensations, and attitudes. We satisfy our intellectual curiosities, and our desire for friendship, but our pleasures are, by their very nature, fleeting. We can do nothing more than merely reiterate them as often as we are able. If we enjoy some great professional success, our feelings of accomplishment remain vivid and intoxicating for about AN HOUR. What then-oblivion?
Gericho49 8 months ago
Religious people have a lot to loose if they suddenly say there is no God. Once again the Ego gets in the way. Always having to right about an argument. Like older guy said show me the evidence? What!! Show us the evidence of God or admit that there is no God. Oh and by the way saying that I feel it in my heart is not evidence.
baxtar1963 8 months ago
@baxtar1963 Exactly. Feelings or intuition are not proof, nor is the lack of an ability to explain something not yet understood.
tactteam00 8 months ago
@baxtar1963 Anti-religious people have a lot to lose if they suddenly say there is one true God. Suddenly their life has purpose but their created gods like ego, power sex become idols.If atheism is true 1) nothing exists beyond the physical (only matter & energy) 2) There can be no spiritual dimension to reality 3) any immaterial reality is just invented by man or illusory.But complex metaphysical realities like abstract math do exists which are not just chemical reactions in brain matter.
Gericho49 8 months ago
cont'd • Since nothing brings itself into existence, the intelligence shown in metaphysics is compelling evidence for a supremely intelligent cause. If theism is true, 1)the universe has been created for a purpose 2)it would be finite in the past, exhibiting incredible design & predictability 3) an intelligent creature would emerge to observe the universe 2b rationally intelligible 4)Such a creature would be blessed with free will&reason, ability to grieve, dream, hope & to love.
Gericho49 8 months ago
This is clearly a biased propaganda film. They are acting like atheism is somehow a religion in of itself.
phenomballer666 8 months ago
@phenomballer666 A worldview becomes a religion when it attempts to explain reality, consciousness & man’s endless search for meaning, origins and destiny. Nearly all of which are metaphysical claims and thus beyond the realms of science. While claiming to be grounded on scientific facts, atheism in reality, has a firm faith base in naturalism or materialism which they asset will eventually explain the everything, including the ultimate origin of the universe & its finite origin.
Gericho49 8 months ago
contd, Despite claiming a non-position or “lack of belief”, Atheists freely express unsolicited, often belligerent opinions, on the existence & nature of God & morality. Given the millions debating God on 1000s of websites which seek followers & donations ,the abundance of resources, billboard ad's, ritual de-baptisms, conventions, clearly atheism has taken on all the trappings of a religion. It is an ideology gathering membership & momentum. Perhaps u can be de-converted to materialism too?
Gericho49 8 months ago
@Gericho49 You are in idiot. People like you who can't comprehend words because of an internal problem bother me. All of those things you mentioned are philosophical questions not religious ones. The difference is faith vs. reason.
phenomballer666 8 months ago
@phenomballer666 What words? By resorting to insults all u show is intellectual impotence. An argument is based on premises and conclusions backed up with verifiable data & evidence. By claiming that atheists have a firm opinion on "the existence & nature of God & morality" I am claiming that these are existential & theological issues that are outside the domain of a purely naturalistic wordlview. There is compelling evidence for God from all disciplines not least, reason, science & philosophy.
Gericho49 8 months ago
@Gericho49oh dear, nutter alert.
kram83au 8 months ago
If there is scientific evidence showing God is real then atheists are wrong, right? Quantum physicists can show evidence that God is real. If people don't understand the evidence then believe the physicists for their wisdom. Don't believe an atheist who lacks the understanding of this empirical evidence.
watch?v=2V6SaBflpiM
watch?v=OrcWntw9juM
GateMessenger 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GateMessenger lol what are you on about?! it does not prove the existence of god!
smileyraw 8 months ago
Try the banana evidence.. lol
geniusjas87 8 months ago
@geniusjas87 could you explain the banana evidence
hawkertruffelsnout 8 months ago
@hawkertruffelsnout lol search "Ray Comfort banana"
geniusjas87 8 months ago
@geniusjas87 you do realise that the bananas we eat are domestic bananas cultivated by man.
wild bananas are inedible
check out " Atheists nightmare debunked. Ray Comfort/Kirk cameron "
hawkertruffelsnout 8 months ago
@hawkertruffelsnout I know, I was being sarcastic...
geniusjas87 8 months ago
@geniusjas87
doh!
sorry,
but its incredible how many people actually believe that crap
hawkertruffelsnout 8 months ago
Do you believe the Earth orbis the Sun or do you know it as a fact? There is no belief in atheism. There is no god. its all in your head
FreeeeS 8 months ago
@FreeeeS The God debate is simple. If atheism is true then the brain is just a "collocation of atoms" (Russell) or "a bunch of selfish genes with no other purpose than survival" (Dawkins) So if the brain functions as a bunch of chemical reactions in a survival machine then all reality is reducible to mindless matter. Q1 are the abstract laws of science & Math invented or were they discovered? Q2 How does any intelligent immaterial reality exist in a universe of mindless matter &energy?
Gericho49 8 months ago
contd If atheism is true, the universe is just product of blind forces & mindless matter having no purpose or design. Why should it exist at all or possess abstract laws, & not be a random, chaotic mess of noxious swirling gases; meaningless tragedies are exactly what one would expect. Since it has no meaning, no mind would evolve to ever deduce it has no meaning. If any life were possible it would evolve thru blind chance as molecules & selfish genes. There would be no meaning no hope no escape
Gericho49 8 months ago
If theism is true, 1)the universe has been created for a purpose 2)it would be finite in the past, exhibiting incredible design & predictability 3) an intelligent creature would emerge to observe the universe 2b rationally intelligible 4)Such a creature would be blessed with free will&reason, ability to grieve, dream, hope & to love 5) the issue of a personal God & transcendent meaning would be the most compelling issue dominating all human history. 6)life would have ultimate meaning & destiny.
Gericho49 8 months ago
@Gericho49 i didnt get everything you said
FreeeeS 8 months ago
So ww3 is going to be belivers vs atheists? what a load of shit, i backed away from atheism as soon as when i realised that the system does promote it, and christians and belivers are the systems enemy and the system is called the new world order
Oozy9Millimeetah 8 months ago
Atheism is not a belief. In fact it is defined as not believing in a god or following a religion.
Atheism is not an equal til religion, it is something completely different, and a lot more sane.
neuromatiker 8 months ago
@neuromatiker "Atheism is not a belief"
All worldviews are built on what we DO believe not what we dont. I dont believe in aliens but I have no desire or interest in setting up websites, billboards, hold convention to de-convert believers or fellowship with likeminded skeptics. In fact I am quite happy to remain totally oblivious to any claims that UFO societies make. The existence or non-existence of aliens is totally irrelevant to a persons sanity.
Gericho49 8 months ago
GREYDON SQUARE HAS SOME FUCKING HUGE BALLS TO DO THAT IN PUBLIC
IGNsucks 8 months ago
Atheism is without any borders. None of the religious dogmas exist in atheism since being an atheist is just being a normal human being.
Race, gender, and cultures. None of that matters. It can be a wonderful feeling.
Neosaigo 9 months ago
@Neosaigo Atheists are just normally evolved ape cousins in a jungle that is amoral, where one bunch of selfish genes destroys another all in the name of survival. "Some will have misfortune & others will get lucky & there will be no rhyme nor reason to it" "There is no good, no evil just blind pitiless indifference" (Dawkins). If this describes your worldview, u truly are an atheist. But if u worry about injustices even in nature, then we both have a conscience that cries out for justice
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago
@Neosaigo "None of the religious dogmas exist in atheism" Ever heard of the "Atheists Bible"? All worldviews attempt to make sense of reality, our existence, man's purpose & destiny in a world full of incongruencies.
"It can be a wonderful feeling." According to Bertrand Russell, if one is brutally honest, atheism can only offer "unyielding despair" since in a cosmic nanosecond, death will be like u never existed. So u try 2 give urself tiny little meanings within a paradygm of meaninglessness.
Prodigalfather1 8 months ago