@jenkstube1 your comment is coming from a background of no liturgical law or norms about the true catholic liturgy. heres a word of advice educate yourself on the liturgical norms about the catholic liturgy both novus ordo and tridentine and then comment using only your knowledge not so arrogant with your uneducated comments. everything used in the tridentine liturgy is used for symbolism look it up.
I was wondering if anyone could provide an answer to this question. I've attended and served the traditional Mass for years but I've never found an answer as to why during Pontifical High Masses two mitres will be used (a precious one and a the plain gold one). Any input would be wonderful.
@rpgabc123 I think its because the precious mitre is more of an ornament, and the gold mitre is the sacramental mitre. During a baptism, confirmation, or ordination, the bishop wears the gold mitre. During Lent and Requiem Masses only a white mitre is used, because of the subdued nature of the events.
@CatholicTraditional I should have phrased my question more clearly. During a pontifical high Mass, the prelate will enter wearing the precious mitre, however, at some point during the Mass the precious mitre is left on the Gospel side of the altar and the gold one (which was resting on the Epistle side) will be used.
@rpgabc123 If he enters wearing the precious mitre, it means he vested elsewhere. The prelate can vest at the throne or in a side chapel. The precious mitre is only used when he's incensed and when he washes his hands at the lavabo and when he gives final blessing and maybe some other times. It's in the ceremonial of bishops. But, the procession in vestments vs in choir habit (which he did here) are two options. For the sake of time, many vest prior to the beginning of mass.
@rpgabc123 I would say, like often is the case in liturgical practices - the practical came first before the theological/symbolic meaning which became attached to it. Those precious mitres used have real jewels and were pretty heavy. The semi-precious mitre, which is usually made of cloth of gold fabric (which used to have gold wrapped silk threads), not its probably some cheaper metal since you can see green spots from tarnishing is used at other times of the ceremony.
@rpgabc123 ...the simple mitre or the white one, is usually plain white, I think white damask was reserved for cardinals. At requiems, you use the simple mitre, and at penitential masses it was semi precious in lieu of precious, and simple mitre in lieu of semi precious - they were down graded. If I remember correctly, you only use precious mitres if there was a Te Deum at Matins. Symbollicaly, just the dignity of the bishop who shares in the sacerdotal powers of Christ.
@rpgabc123 a lot of the times, vestments or ecclesiastical costume reflect the dignity, whether he has jurisdiction, and the hierarchy of the cleric. Like mozetta means you're the boss of that diocese. Mantelletta (originally) if you're just a titular bishop with no territorial jurisdiction. Same with the Cappa. Same with the pallium. etc.
Ludicrous and disgraceful display of pomp and power from the hierarchy - what must the ordinary, faithful congregation, getting on with trying to lead good prayerful lives have thought of this?
@jenkstube1 This was one of the most beautiful Masses I was ever at, it was a Pontifical High Tridentine Mass. People knew exactly what was going on. Everyone that was there was at Raymond Cardinal Burke's Pro-Life seminar that morning in the Basilica, this was in the Knock's old Parish Church. This is part of Catholic Tradition.
@jenkstube1 I rather think that your comment is what is most ludicrous. You & those like you, keep using the laity to cover your ignorance and arogance. As the comment above yours rightly put it, those who were at the mass knew exactly what was going on and they were there because the wished to be there. If they had no issues, I wonder why such arrogance from you. I wonder if you are a Catholic, cos it would be sad to hear you abuse the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass the way you just did. God bless.
@jenkstube1 you're right --- to much lace and pomp! I can't believe pontifical masses are so elaborate and flowery for the past millenium! Thank God it has been reformed and simplified. I can't imagine how Catholics prayed for the past millenium. Finally, catholics can pray now that we have dancing nuns w/bowls of incense, clown masses and burlap sack ponchos! This much more simple liturgy has really brought up the mass attendance the past 50 years! We need concrete prayer spaces
@jenkstube1 This was a Pontifical Mass, pomp is necessary for worship of the Lord, although I wouldn't describe it using that word. And if you still absolutely despise this beauty, go to a Low mass...then come back and tell me how it went!
@jenkstube1 your comment is coming from a background of no liturgical law or norms about the true catholic liturgy. heres a word of advice educate yourself on the liturgical norms about the catholic liturgy both novus ordo and tridentine and then comment using only your knowledge not so arrogant with your uneducated comments. everything used in the tridentine liturgy is used for symbolism look it up.
valenciaj8829 2 months ago
Wonderful to see.No catholic Lite here.This frightens them and The ACP.Far too holy.
Panvert22 3 months ago
Oh and it's also nice to hear a second collect for the Holy Father!
rpgabc123 4 months ago
I was wondering if anyone could provide an answer to this question. I've attended and served the traditional Mass for years but I've never found an answer as to why during Pontifical High Masses two mitres will be used (a precious one and a the plain gold one). Any input would be wonderful.
rpgabc123 4 months ago
@rpgabc123 I think its because the precious mitre is more of an ornament, and the gold mitre is the sacramental mitre. During a baptism, confirmation, or ordination, the bishop wears the gold mitre. During Lent and Requiem Masses only a white mitre is used, because of the subdued nature of the events.
CatholicTraditional 3 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
@CatholicTraditional I should have phrased my question more clearly. During a pontifical high Mass, the prelate will enter wearing the precious mitre, however, at some point during the Mass the precious mitre is left on the Gospel side of the altar and the gold one (which was resting on the Epistle side) will be used.
rpgabc123 3 months ago
@rpgabc123 If he enters wearing the precious mitre, it means he vested elsewhere. The prelate can vest at the throne or in a side chapel. The precious mitre is only used when he's incensed and when he washes his hands at the lavabo and when he gives final blessing and maybe some other times. It's in the ceremonial of bishops. But, the procession in vestments vs in choir habit (which he did here) are two options. For the sake of time, many vest prior to the beginning of mass.
gregorius1014 1 month ago
@gregorius1014 I guess what I really meant was....has this practice taken a form of symbolism?
rpgabc123 1 month ago
@rpgabc123 I would say, like often is the case in liturgical practices - the practical came first before the theological/symbolic meaning which became attached to it. Those precious mitres used have real jewels and were pretty heavy. The semi-precious mitre, which is usually made of cloth of gold fabric (which used to have gold wrapped silk threads), not its probably some cheaper metal since you can see green spots from tarnishing is used at other times of the ceremony.
gregorius1014 1 month ago
@rpgabc123 ...the simple mitre or the white one, is usually plain white, I think white damask was reserved for cardinals. At requiems, you use the simple mitre, and at penitential masses it was semi precious in lieu of precious, and simple mitre in lieu of semi precious - they were down graded. If I remember correctly, you only use precious mitres if there was a Te Deum at Matins. Symbollicaly, just the dignity of the bishop who shares in the sacerdotal powers of Christ.
gregorius1014 1 month ago
@rpgabc123 a lot of the times, vestments or ecclesiastical costume reflect the dignity, whether he has jurisdiction, and the hierarchy of the cleric. Like mozetta means you're the boss of that diocese. Mantelletta (originally) if you're just a titular bishop with no territorial jurisdiction. Same with the Cappa. Same with the pallium. etc.
gregorius1014 1 month ago
Is this an ICKSP apostolate or is there one nearby?
dle462 4 months ago
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All the pomp from the criminal organisation that still needs to apologise for Artane and other atrocities commited against the Irish nation.
madsoccer01 5 months ago
Ludicrous and disgraceful display of pomp and power from the hierarchy - what must the ordinary, faithful congregation, getting on with trying to lead good prayerful lives have thought of this?
jenkstube1 5 months ago
@jenkstube1 This was one of the most beautiful Masses I was ever at, it was a Pontifical High Tridentine Mass. People knew exactly what was going on. Everyone that was there was at Raymond Cardinal Burke's Pro-Life seminar that morning in the Basilica, this was in the Knock's old Parish Church. This is part of Catholic Tradition.
ruairi00 5 months ago 4
@jenkstube1 I rather think that your comment is what is most ludicrous. You & those like you, keep using the laity to cover your ignorance and arogance. As the comment above yours rightly put it, those who were at the mass knew exactly what was going on and they were there because the wished to be there. If they had no issues, I wonder why such arrogance from you. I wonder if you are a Catholic, cos it would be sad to hear you abuse the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass the way you just did. God bless.
peterasi333 5 months ago
Comment removed
peterasi333 5 months ago
@jenkstube1 The Holy Mass is just a glimpse of what awaits those who attain Heaven.
youdrivethedeal 3 months ago
@jenkstube1 whats so bad about it ? It's beautiful and I'm a normal ordinary faithful member of the congregation
seanynut1994 2 months ago
@jenkstube1 I think its great whats bad about ? perfect atmosphere for prayer
seanynut1994 2 months ago
@jenkstube1 you're right --- to much lace and pomp! I can't believe pontifical masses are so elaborate and flowery for the past millenium! Thank God it has been reformed and simplified. I can't imagine how Catholics prayed for the past millenium. Finally, catholics can pray now that we have dancing nuns w/bowls of incense, clown masses and burlap sack ponchos! This much more simple liturgy has really brought up the mass attendance the past 50 years! We need concrete prayer spaces
gregorius1014 1 month ago
@jenkstube1 This was a Pontifical Mass, pomp is necessary for worship of the Lord, although I wouldn't describe it using that word. And if you still absolutely despise this beauty, go to a Low mass...then come back and tell me how it went!
God Bless you!
treeloop98 1 month ago