To our Irish brothers and sisters: the Lisbon Treaty destroyed your nation's sovereignty

[mariconor]

"...more power to the EU superstate..." - what you mean like the USA?

I assume you don't like your own country mate.

Signed, an Irish citizen who likes the EU.

[mariconor]

"...more power to the EU superstate..." - what you mean like the USA?

I assume you don't like your own country mate.

Signed, an Irish citizen who likes the EU.

[jebarth3]

@DranQNitrouS - lol, yes, i'm very scared of a nation whose currency is like toilet paper

[mark32811]

@jebarth3 Hey HEY. Toilet paper would become GOLD if there were a shortage! xD

[AnnoyingBeast]

most peple in ireland hate the eu.... irish people were scared into voting yes, they took away our jobs, and said its because we voted no, then they made us vote again and said wed get more jobs. i live in ireland, and we never got those jobs. now everyone i know is unemployed or in uncossistent work, and look now in ireland, protests everyday, no jobs, budget cuts everywhere and a huge rise in dissident republicism in northern ireland... watch and wait. ireland will be here long after the e.u

[1957Rotu]

Not sure where you know where my ancestors came from. But they experienced 800 years of Imperialism at the hands of the British. And I'm much happier living in EU-land than in the United Kingdom.

[Kareena1988]

DUDE; THEY MANIPULATED THE ELECTION...whatever..they knew what they were doing...

[1957Rotu]

@Kareena1988 Don't make allegations unless you can substantiate them. Otherwise, you just sound like another mindless "child of the internet".

[Kareena1988]

@1957Rotu

theres actually a video about one guy taking boxes out or into the room..open your eyes..whatever..i have my opinion which cannot be challenged..

jebarth: keep it up..right so!!!=)

[1957Rotu]

@Kareena1988 Just because you hear something on a YOU Tube video about something does not mean it is true. Which is why there's a rule against the use of hearsay evidence in court.

During the European Elections, 3000 votes were incorrectly attributed to Declan Ganley (the anti-Lisbon candidate). These votes subsequently had to be re-allocated to their rightful beneficiaries (on the pro-Lisbon side). So the evidence would suggest that the anti-Lisbon side benefited from voting screw ups.

[jebarth3]

@1957Rotu - do you have a link for that story?

[1957Rotu]

No. But my recollection is that this video states that the maker of the video had heard from soneone else that someone had marched out of a polling station with a box of votes and had walked up the street with them. But no photographic evidence was furnished to substantiate this allegation.

[GreatEconomicDebate]

@jebarth3 I can't say I know much about what happened with Ireland and the EU, but your logic is right on. It's easy to see why citizens give power to central governments but what's less easy to see (without consulting history) is why citizens shouldn't give power to big government.. I think my favorite read, on that chronic error of history is Iwin Schiffs cartoon -how an economy grows and why it doesn't.

[GreatEconomicDebate]

And I think what bothers me most about coersion through democratic rule is the mainstream acceptance of its loaded terminology. Everytime I turn on the TV there's the president talking about raising capital gains taxes in the name of fairness, or repealing the "bush tax cuts for the wealthy" (as if they were a gift), or figuring out "who's ass to kick", when asked what he was doing about the oil spill. It's so easy for a buerocrat to find a capitalist scapegoat...sure, they're everywhere

[GreatEconomicDebate]

...but like you said in another video democracy is just 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. I think maybe it should reall be 2 wolves, a scapegoat and a 100 million sheep. We don't mind the scapegoat getting his; after all, justice and rule of law are good. But what's distressing are the government "rescues" and "preventative measures" directed against the scape goat but which actually provide a moral basis for the wolves to eat 100 million sheep. BP is one fine looking goat.

[Machinann]

I admit the lisbon treaty was bollocks, they promised jobs but I don't see any popping up, and as far as the EU goes believe me man if they even dare try act like they're taking control of Ireland there's no doubt the IRA will resurface, because this country will not being enslaved by another country as for sovereignty goes well that kind of died 5 years ago but our sovereignty will be revived I can guarantee you that

[hachibeach151]

I'm not even Irish, but I fancy you are a disgrace to your own brethren with this vid.

hb151

[jebarth3]

How is it that so many Irish and Europeans, then, are agreeing with my ultimate premise? My premise that the EU is becoming way too powerful.

[hachibeach151]

Just like Louis Riel hanging in spite of every Quebecer barking in his favor, so the Treaty of Lisbon will go on in spite of your voices against it.

hb151

[jebarth3]

@hachibeach151 - you didn't answer my question; typical EU strategy of avoiding debate

[hachibeach151]

@jebarth - I did. But if you want to me to reiterate, it's a typical anti-EU strategy of denial that you are the others are agreeing to,. Two things you guys can do:

1. Just accept the fact that the majority has spoken regarding the fate of your country. You will survive.

2. Get a rope and hang yourself.

hb151

[jebarth3]

@hachibeach151 - again, you don't answer my question. Why are so many Irish and Europeans (particularly Eastern Europeans) wary of this new European Empire?

For the first time since the Romans, Europe is under one single empire. That's a big deal.

And who cares what the "majority" want? If the majority wanted slavery, would it be ok to have slavery? If the majority wanted a totalitarian dictatorship, would a dictatorship be ok?

"Tyranny of the majority": look it up

[hachibeach151]

Well if you are under your eternal delusion that I still didn't answer your question EVEN THOUGH I DID, then I will let you know that's not my problem and that I choose not to go any further. All the more reason for you to go hang yourself (which is ok) or just accept that the majority has spoken (which is also ok).

Things can't always go your way all the time, my friend. That's life.

hb151

[jebarth3]

@hachibeach151 - again, you operate under the assumption that "majority rule" is ok. Again, I will ask: if a 51% majority wanted a return to African slavery, would that be ok? If a 51% majority wanted a totalitarian dictatorship, would that be ok?

Please answer my question regarding the tyranny of the majority.

[hachibeach151]

My dear friend, you have just confirmed that the delusion I suspected you and your sore losers are under.

If the people say so, then the people have spoken. And if the people say that they want to vote yes to the referendum, then they do. So to answer your question (or rather not, given your delusional dubage), it's ok on both counts because the people have made up their minds.

You're just going to have to accept the fact that you lost the fight. Again, as I said, that's life.

hb151

[jebarth3]

@hachibeach151 - and you have just confirmed that you have Nazi-like tendencies.

A totalitarian Hitler-like dictatorship is ok as long as 51% of the population wants it? Slavery is ok as long as 51% of the population wants it? That's just what you confirmed - you said "its ok on both counts because the people have made up their minds"

Thats fine if you feel that way, but Im not going to waste my time arguing with Fascists like yourself who do not believe in the natural rights of the individual

[hachibeach151]

And building on my recent response to you, if the same 51% say "no slavery" the majority has spoken. Whether or not it's for "Yes" or "No," the majority rules. And in your part of the European Union, they said "Yes."

Have it your way, laddie. Better not be seeing any more responses from you. If I am a Nazi in your eyes, then I raise my Guinness while giving you a hearty "Sieg Heil."

hb151

[jebarth3]

@hachibeach151 - so you admit Nazi leanings. Nice.

And slavery is not wrong simply because 51% are against it. Slavery is wrong because it violates the natural rights of the individual. What are natural rights? Life, liberty, and property.

If 95% of the population wanted to violate an individual's natural rights, it wouldn't matter --- those rights are INVIOLABLE.

You need a course in philosophy and government... your blind adherence to majority rule - at all costs - is very disturbing

[hachibeach151]

jebarth, the reason I say so is because your delusional mental state allows you to see me as a Nazi. And your delusions prevent you from seeing the sarcasm in my statement.

You can tell me I need a course in common sense. But common sense tells me that YOU, on the other hand, seriously need a rope for yourself. Or at least a shrink to cure you of your delusional state.

hb151

[jebarth3]

@hachibeach151 - let me ask you, if 51% of the population wanted to enslave you and your family, steal all of your possessions, and destroy everything you own... would that be ok? That's majority rule, is it not?

Obviously, the answer is a resounding NO. It doesn't matter if 99% of the population wants to enslave you and your family; as an individual, you have natural rights that cannot be violated.

Tyranny of the Majority is as bad as the worst dictatorship.

[hachibeach151]

Hold on here. I thought you said you were done debating with me. If you want to keep debating this, say so. Don't give me this "I don't want to talk with you" garbage IF YOU STILL WANT TO TALK.

Now then, where I come from, that situation you pointed out would not be considered to be voted on. I see this as a futile attempt just for you to try and convince me that Ireland accepting the referendum was a bad idea.

I will stand my ground and say that Ireland made the right choice. Period.

hb151

[jebarth3]

@hachibeach151 - you understand absolute nothing about the concept of natural rights and individualism. That's why.

And of course the situation I pointed out could potentially be voted on. Adolf Hitler was democratically-elected by a MAJORITY of the German people. Slavery was upheld democratically by a MAJORITY of Americans.

Democracy does not trump individual rights. You must respect the rights of the minority.

The reason why I call you a Nazi is because you believe in State coercion.

[hachibeach151]

And so your delusion continues. I never said that I did not understand about natural rights and individualism. And likewise, the second referendum was upheld democratically by a MAJORITY of the Irish last year. Each and every individual had a choice to make. The majorityof those individuals chose: YES.

The real reason you called me a Nazi is that you are a bitter, delusional Irishman who just won't accept defeat. I do not believe in Nazism's ideology nor do I support or tolerate it.

hb151

[jebarth3]

@hachibeach151 - if you understand the concept behind natural rights and individual liberty, then you certainly do not adhere to it, because natural rights ALWAYS trump majority rule.

Looks like we're going in circles. Nice debating you.

[hachibeach151]

You forgot the NOT before. But your opinion, though biased, is respected.

You're going around in circles. I'm just spinning around in celebration because the people, frankly, have spoken and given closure to this whole ordeal.

hb151

[jebarth3]

@hachibeach151 - Finally, you neglect to mention that a majority of the Irish people voted NO to the Lisbon Treaty the first time around. A majority of the people of France and the Netherlands also voted NO.

So if you did respect the rights of the majority, you'd STILL be against the Lisbon Treaty and the EU. But you're merely using "majority rule" as a disguise for your dictator-like leanings.

[DawnOfTherion]

don't see ireland or scotland ever having their independence unless there is a total collapse of western society. don't know why IRA keeps up this charade it's laughable and they look like idots. If you plot terroristic activity against britain you'll ether end up dead or in prison. If u do it by politcal meens then you'll just end up looking stupid beacuse ireland already has all the freedom it will EVER have

[DawnOfTherion]

tired of listing to bitches like you wine about the EU theirs not a fucking thing you can do about it. Eat your mcdonalds and shut your mouth this is as good as life gets

[1957Rotu]

@jebarth3 Just on a point of fact. Spain voted overwhelmingly in favour of the EU Constitution Treaty. As did Luxembourg, If you total all the votes in all the different referenda on the EU Constitution Treaty and thr LIsbon Treaty, the figures add up to a 'Yes' majority overall.

So stop peddling the fiction that the only important votes were those emanating from France and the Netherlands. Why would they spend "millions and millions of dollars" on a second referendum campaign. Euro surely?

[jebarth3]

@1957Rotu - So the desires of the French and Dutch people don't count? Whatever happened to self-determination and national sovereignty?

The policy that you're advocating - that the French and Dutch voices don't matter - sounds very imperialistic. Then again, your ancestors 100 years ago were huge fans of imperialism, so its not exactly a surprise that current Euro elites are as well.

[1957Rotu]

@jebarth3 My precise words: "So stop peddling the fiction that the only important votes were those emanating from France and the Netherlands". I thought that ws plain English. What it means is that the French, Dutch, Spanish and Luxembourg votes were all important and that voters in the EU are entitled to "parity of esteem".

[1957Rotu]

@jebarth3 Lisbon did not create the EU Council. That was created by the Rome Treaty which came into force on the 25th of March, 1957. The European Council is made up of elected representatives of the members of the European Union. Ultimately, they decide whether to adopt or reject EU legislation, thereby representing the views of their respective populaces.

"I;ve been to Europe many times in the last few years." So? You should take a course on EU Law and Policy. You don't understand it.

[jebarth3]

@1957Rotu - I don't need to take a course on "EU Law and Policy" to know that the way in which the EU has aggrandized power and built its empire is wrong. All it takes is a basic understanding of natural rights, which are universal to ALL mankind.

And I didn't mean to give you the impression that the Council was created by Lisbon. All I meant was that EU bodies - whose members are NOT directly elected by the people - now have more power. And was the Rome Treaty voted on by the people?

[1957Rotu]

@jebarth3 There was immense belllicosity between Britain and France and Germany and Italy respectively for many decades in the twentieth century. Many millions of people died in two world wars. The EU has helped those countries to develop a much stronger and peaceful relationship between each other and made wars between those countries a thing of the past.

If you bothered to take a course on the EU legal system, you would realise that the Community is underpinned by the rule of law.

[jebarth3]

@1957Rotu - lol you didn't address a single point I made. Well its typical of you EU statists to act like that, so its not exactly a surprise for me. The only thing I'm going to say to you is that you should NEVER blindly support any empire - whether its American, European, or whatever. The EU is now officially an empire or "superstate" -- the entire continent of Europe for the 1st time in history has been conquered. Is that good? Maybe you think it is. Personally, I think its very dangerous.

[AnnoyingBeast]

@jebarth3 most peple in ireland hate the eu.... irish people were scared into voting yes, they took away our jobs, and said its because we voted no, then they made us vote again and said wed get more jobs. i live in ireland, and we never got those jobs. now everyone i know is unemployed or in uncossistent work, and look now in ireland, protests everyday, no jobs, budget cuts everywhere and a huge rise in dissident republicism in northern ireland... watch and wait.

[witheyy]

with a one size fits all europe they plan a one size fits all faith, that will be islam, it will be ushered in by the barcelona agreement and the kissing of the arab arse,the E U IS NOT JUST ABOUT A ONE EUROPE THE WHOLE THING IS BANKROLLED BY SAUDI TO MAKE WAY FOR A SEMI ISLAMIC EUROPE, AND ONE DAY A COMPLETLEY ISLAMIC EUROPE, these cunts have not just given our right to govern away but probably the future of europe as we know it,

[kipperdolan]

tony blair is a war crimes criminal if he gets to be leader of the eu all of europe is fucked. we just want to be british not european and to live life our way not any other.if the rest of them want to be be ruled by eu laws let them get on with it the british people will sort it out at next elections thats right gordon brown traitor.

[skapgoater]

bullshit

[padraigomairtin]

This video is full of factual errors and lies. The European Council is not new it was established by Treaty of Rome 1957. The "President of Europe" is in fact the president of the Council; that's it. He is not the president of Europe. The German Consitutional Court has reviewed the Treaty and has concluded that the EU is not a Superstate but rather and association of sovereign state. EU Officials bribing Irish Unions; A complete fabrication! We Irish had the right to vote no but we chose YES

[1957Rotu]

Hello brothers and sisters. My name is jebarth. I did a semester course on EU Law and Politics in Peoria. I'm an expert on everything related to the European Union. So, brother and sisters (though not in the genetic sense) you have to take on board my superbly incisive and hugely accurate explanation of the Lisbon Treaty.

"All the laws in each country are going to be decided in Brussels". WRONG.

Some of us feel much closer to the EU than to the USA. Some of us live in 2009 (not 1916).

[djvision20022000]

@padraigomairtin your nuts lol this union will be the end of you your like a turkey voting for christmas lol

[padraigomairtin]

How will the Lisbon treaty be the end of us?

[HonestBollocks]

mate don't give up hope yet, my country may have voted yes but me and my fellow patriots will NOT let the EU even try to push their fascist ideal on us and if they even dare try change our laws then I promise you they will be sorry

and hopefully the Czech Republic have more balls than my country to say fuck you to the EU and refuse to sign this lisbon bollocksology

[THEGLASSOFMILK2]

um what can ireland do they cant fight i've lost hope too my dads done with ireland now -he is irish- there's noone to fight for anything in ireland and yeah. ireland would have to like build an army and join with other countries lol to do anything

[getovsvk]

totally agree, EU is becoming a dictatorship

[AZpaddyyank]

Great explanation. Concentrated power can be either good or bad, depending upon who has it. Let's hope and pray for a benevolent dictatorship.

[culabula92]

17th of October and i'm grand, nutns changed. Ye no jobs have been created, but i don't see a EU army marching outside my door. You're all liars

[keithdebbie]

it was a fix ireland voted no, and most wer brainwashed wth yesssssss everywhere

[bandtmusic]

i dont know what kind of comic books you reading,but i am sure that most people who died because they would not swear sovereignty to people with more power would agree,this is irish history,i am all for a united europe,and it would be great for everbody,but each country should be respected for its own individuality.i just hope our constitution is respected(garantees)are no good,its what is on paper in law that counts,i hope irish people will still have there referendums,THANK YOU.

[dubinthedam]

Ireland voted yes because we are one world and therein our future lies. Europe has problems but it is committed to working together. Ideas of Liberty and sovereignty largely exist in comic books for boys. America is not a particularly free or democratic society, as few society truly are. Great countries are those who consider other little countries greater than their own. Think global, think others, think outside the box. The idea behind the EEC is profoundly noble even in modern times.

[RenditionsTune]

You obviously don't really understand what the "treaty" means. You can't have read it, because it has never been published. It's 64 amendments which add up to the original constitution. What is worse, it is a self-amending treaty which means that you have forever voted away your right to future referenda. From now on, only civil servants (not the Dáil and not the European Parliament) will be able to propose new laws. Basically, we're all screwed.

[OpeningSalvoe]

You're a dickhead.

[Carmex776]

why should we?

[judemcg]

Do you even read the comment that you are replying to, or are you just an idiotic moron?

[bandtmusic]

i voted no in this referendum (AGAIN),i am very sad at the outcome,i blame the irish goverment parties for pushing this on people at a very bad time in ireland,and it is my opinion like this video explains,that it was mostly high paid workers that voted yes to this treaty,i work in a normal low paid job and its sad that people with more money than 30% of the working force ie (cival services and departments big bussness and developers )would sell there country and past history for money,

[judemcg]

What I am saying is if your born in a country then you are legally from that country. The last thing Ireland would try to do would to be more like a country witch hasn't go anything going for them especially if that country had enslaved them for the past eight hundred years.

[judemcg]

Last time I cheaked, Ireland have there own culture and everyone in Ireland is Irish just the same as everyone in America is American.

[judemcg]

Ireland needs to be "more multicultural"? what exactly are you trying to say?

[judemcg]

First of all, your are American, so why are you getting involved in somthing that is compleatly none of you business? I don't seem to understand why you even pretend to know any history about Ireland and our independence.

[bencr06]

they bankrupted the irish to convince them they needed the EU

[bencr06]

they bankrupted the irish to convince them they needed the EU

[rekage11]

this has nothing to do with being more multi-cultural at all

[TheSnoody]

The EU is fine....the Lisbon Treaty just makes it so the EU can function at least semi-mediocre on the world stage. Currently the rest of the world just looks at Europle like a bunch of little petty nation-states....the Lisbon Treaty changes that.

[celtsbhoy88]

Charter of Fundamental Rights can be suspended if they decide to call a state of emergency or marshell law. like hittler did or like if somthing like 9/11 happens. with was an inside job,

[DieChavScum]

700 years down the drain...

Best out of 3 anyone? So far it would be a draw if it was a sport.

[Fyuter]

europeans need to organise political activist groups 2 save liberty freedom and democracy b4 its 2 late

FREE IRELAND

[RoadWarriorCainann]

How didpeople actually believed this bullshit, Brian Lenihan even admitted that lisbon there would be not increase of jobs for fucks sake. Was Michael Collins death all a joke to all you yes voters? Was the 1916 rising all for nothing? god it's like history repeating itself again, Michael Collins like Brian Bóru broke foreign rule & got our country back now Brian Cowen pulls a Dermot McMurrough & ends all that god I wish Cúchulainn was alive right now & give Fianna FAIL what they deserve

[eyeboan]

Very ashamed to be Irish this week. Big EU bends over and dumb Paddy kisses his ass.

[lucyinclonmel]

ya i am ashamed to b irish

[jebarth3]

michaelarkins - you're right, immediately after I said "Holland People" I knew I meant "Dutch"... but that hardly detracts from my overall point.

How is this in any way a "conspiracy theory"? You're engaging in logical fallacies in order to dismiss my ideas without having to argue any specific points. Why do you not support the effort in other countries to hold a referendum? Why so anti-democratic? If the Lisbon Treaty was so great, why are EU elites clearly scared of the People's voice?

[ANTONELIUSMCGREGOR]

I voted No. I'm disappointed that our nation have become nothing more than 'sheep' who continuously listen to the crap that our corrupt government spew. I for one have become totally disillusioned with Ireland.

[DickChambers69]

Ireland is no longer an independent nation. What was the point of it all? Have the Irish people decided that the Republic had failed as a state? If Michael Collins had known this was going to happen, would he have even bothered?

jebarth3 is actually bang on right about alot of things concerning the EU.

[michaelarkins]

Sorry mate but your misinformed opinions and lack of factual reference shocks me. You're perpetuating the unfounded conspiracies with your video. Who the hell are "Holland People"? They're Dutch !! The EU is the Biggest Peace Building project in the history of the world.. It needs improvement and streamlining. Lisbon allows that. We voted because that's our form of democracy, other EU countries have their form. You're idiocy saddens me..

[irishhellsangel]

who ever voted yes to the lisbon treaty is totally braindead, same people will vote yes to a one world goverment wake up sheeple, death to the new world order

[magiclion]

by the way the middle and educated classes were almost totally in favour.. Unfortunately at lot of young people get their info aka conspiracy and joe soap bloggs. Basically becoming stupid I wish they'd go back to the 1950/70/80s to see how things were then thankfully our elected leaders had vision 40 years ago and hopefully vision again for the next 20 years. A lot of what u said is an extreme interpretation. eg president will be more like an ambassador he won;t be able to do fuck all

[magiclion]

maybe the french & dutch voted no for other populist reasons that had nothing to dowith the treaty as was the case in ireland a year ago. are u fluent in those languages and living there at the time. i voted yes twice and i consider myself non retarded and want europe to move into the 21st century no voters are like the nwo conspiracists. in 25 years see if tyou're right just like no voters have been wrong the last 5 treaties

[hosszuvagta]

The EU will finish soon or later. It's easy to see how burocratic and screwed up it is. People will be slaves for a while /Europeans/ and one day there will be a huge war or something like that. This treaty /like other treaties/ does smell from miles...

[trent2429]

At least the French and Dutch voters still have some sense. Maybe the voting booths offered free whiskey and potatoes for yes votes in Dublin. I don't see how else that wretched document could pass a referendum.

[drumrgirl28]

Please spare a thought for the third of the country that faced all of the propoganda and fear mongering that EU money can buy, and still voted 'NO'.....again. These fellow citizens give me hope for the future and are what makes me proud to be Irish.

[YourFunny13]

Well done, hardly a mention of this disaster over here.

[cranyonrye]

i understand your bitterness, but the Lisbon treaty changes nothing in the struggle for Irish and Celtic Nationalism in the British Isles and Europe. Also, the Irish are not responsible for the freedom of all Europe or America, they have to fight their own battles. Our struggle for national sovereignty, for the reunification of Ireland, for the abolishing of the British monarchy for our identity and for our native languages goes on relentlessly and unabated...Nothing is over nothings changed

[cubaser]

Well said! Thanks for the video...my heart is broken : (

[aesthetictripp]

NATO is even based in Brussels,also the WEU is the controlling power of Europe and is a completely seperate entity from the EU and is the 12 stars on the flag.The conglomerates like GE here in America are in League with Europe,The UN Security Council is the U.S.,U.K.,France vs Russia,& China,Cananda and Austrailia are still Commonwealth realms of the U.K. and there is much more to the story.The elite of Europe mainly working in Brussels in league with Rome control a lot.

[JackNeedles]

The Europeans will be mad when they start losing more of their rights to the EU's one world tyrannical government agenda.

[dwezelbub]

I'm from the UK ...Thank you for this video... I agree with you 100%.

[jebarth3]

Finally, you are refusing to answer my question on why you do not believe the European people should have the right to vote on this enormous political change. They say its a "treaty" not a "constitution" - but that's just playing with semantics. Its entirely within the realm of the People of Europe to decide on directly.

Why not respect the wishes of the British? The French? The Dutch? The Czechs? If I am so wrong, than why is the EU so desperate and intent on not allowing referendums?

[jebarth3]

I acknowledge that this President position is not purely executive, but it is still largely unclear what his or her powers will be. Nonetheless, I concede that I may have been using inflammatory language when I said Tony Blair would be "President of Europe" (even though pro-Lisbon people also say that). Its not necessarily Blair as an individual who will hold the power - but the EU Council - which he will formally represent. So I don't think its too off-base to attack that.

[jebarth3]

You say that the EC and President are democratic because they're elected by heads of states or other officials. That's not democracy, that's a group of elites choosing who they want to have power. That's not the People. That's one reason why here in the U.S. we decided to amend the Constitution and allow the direct elections of Senators - prior to that Senators were elected by largely corrupt legislatures. There was already a democratic deficit prior to the Lisbon Treaty and now its worse

[andrewhpf]

In addition to that., the President of the European Council has no power whatsoever over the individuals of any of the sovereign States of the EU. Check the jobs specs of the position and you'll see that the "powers" are not very considerable.

I'll decline the offer of a video response thanks. Be a bit of a waste of my time tbh, as is debating anything on a YouTube comments section.

[andrewhpf]

A quick retort...

Firstly it's not a "President of Europe" - it's a President of the European Council - something completely different. The President of such is elected by QMV by democratically elected heads of state.

The EC is just one part of many aspects to the EU. Tony Blair is not a shoe-in for the job (only UK press say so), but you should know that he held the exact same job twice before as PM of Britain. The only thing changing is the way the role is elected and the length of the term.

[jebarth3]

andrewhpf - I challenge you to create a video response and lay out (point by point) exactly how I am wrong. For example, how is this not a superstate? And even supporters of Lisbon acknowledge that there will be an un-elected President of Europe. And how does this not constitute an undemocratic takeover when the European people are denied a direct vote on this very important political issue? These are neither "delusions" nor "conspiracy theories" (whatever that vague term even means).

[andrewhpf]

Dear of dear it seems you're all a bit mis-informed as to the intentions of the EU, and what the Lisbon Treaty does for Europe. I doubt any of you have actually read the Treaty itself, but I am sure that whatever reasons you used to vote no were incorrect and for want of a better term, conspiracy theories.

As for the video poster, I could tear your arguments and your comments to shreads. "EU super state", "President of Europe", "Takeover", "undemocratic"... pure delusions and utter rambling.

[yipeeeeeeeeee112]

its rigged!! who in the right mind would vote yes for the lisbon treaty? please google the word zeitgeist and watch the movie free online. it will show you everything what is going on. the global takeover started on september 11 - with the twin towers! please watch zeitgeist!!

[Lizzie666666]

~The Irish people have spoken, get over it!

[thi54120]

Get over it ?

Why did the EU not get over it when the Irish (and French and Dutch) voted no in the first place ? They can fight back until they have it their way and we should shut up ? No way.

[VoteLib3rty]

I'm sure the vote was rigged. The economic 'crisis' was artificially created by the central banking powers. Just coincidence that Iceland and Ireland got swept up into centralized government? Please. Wake up. This is the push for a New World Order global dictatorship.

[HandJobFilms]

i voted no last year and again yesterday,the government here are cunts they can go fuck themselves

[lobsterjohnson88]

ur a smart man!

if only the irish people were half as intelligent!!!

I am ashamed of my country for the 1st time 2day!

[WhackyRyan]

Im irish, i voted no im disgusted myself with todays result and our government tellin lies and scaring people to vote yes one lie has already been revealed tismorning on live tv by our minister lehinan. " Minister Lehinan when interviewed on RTE TV by Pravada Mountrose this morning in a counting centre. When asked "Was it the promise of jobs that swung the vote to a Yes". Lenihan said "We never promised jobs as a result of a Yes vote" What a joke.

[rexusdiablos]

Hi from Ireland! I feel like I'm going to get sick. I can't believe that the government is going to get away with this. What in God's name is wrong with people. Are they honestly that warped that they can't see this for what it is?

Collins is turning in his grave. I am so ashamed of my nation right now. We're nothing but an island of whores.