Video #69 (Hobby) Overview of The Burning Wheel RPG by TowerGuardDM

[rintintin49]

This game has done wonders for me. It is simply great. Perhaps what is important to understand, from the start, is that it is a very dynamic game that builds around consequences & complications from play. Every test/roll brings something to the table. The GM must be quick to improvise significant complications & obstacles. The players must create characters that can interact with the setting & other players. They have a lot to do in this game. The setting must be chosen through open discussion.

[TowerGuardDM]

@rintintin49 I see Burning Wheel Gold is out. BoltOrange and others have spotted it as well. I favorited a vid covering it. Very well done video too!

[highpriestrsw2]

I own 5 complete Burning Wheel sets!

[TowerGuardDM]

@highpriestrsw2 Now that is dedication!

[sikok93453]

There is a system called The Riddle of Steel, you may like. A lot of the fans for Burning Wheel and Riddle of Steel crossover. The writer of Riddle of Steel often posts in the Burning Wheel forums as well.

Unfortunately RoS isn't in print anymore, but there are illegal copies through torrents you can find, and you can buy a PDF on the fansite forums.

[TowerGuardDM]

@sikok93453 Will look for it on ebay, thanks!

[OwlbearJack]

great job with this vid my dude

[TowerGuardDM]

@OwlbearJack Thanks!

[logicguy37]

Are you aware there is a Sci-Fi setting for this based on a graphic novel called "Burning Empires"? An absolutely awesome setting, go check it out!

[TowerGuardDM]

@logicguy37 Cool, thanks for the heads up!

[beatboxpeej]

This chart is epic!

[TowerGuardDM]

@beatboxpeej Hehe, I thought it was nifty so I threw it out there.  Glad you like it.

[woodwwad]

You are certainly welcome for the Bygone Bestiary; glad to see you've found a use for it. I saw there were some marks at the top of the book. Those weren't there, sorry, I'll have to package books better from now on.

Your Burning Wheel Overview was well done. Sounds interesting. Hope your game goes well.

[TowerGuardDM]

@woodwwad Too many systems I want to run. I am thinking about buying NWoD now also. I see they have rules for mortals and a template system of sorts so you can cross the games over with each other. Thinking about mortal knights during the crusades in Acre or something. Maybe they'll encounter the supernatural, the undead, who knows?

[woodwwad]

@TowerGuardDM I see you buy tons of games, do you end up not running a lot of them? Seems like it would be hard to run too many of them.

[TowerGuardDM]

@woodwwad In the old days I used to. We played 3-4 times per week and I was DM 90% of the time I would say. I have always been a collector and that has stuck with me. What hasn't stuck over the years is our play time. We are lucky to play once per month now and it drives me crazy. I would like to play once per week. I have 5 campaigns in the works, 1 above the rest and chances are very low that I will end up running more than one of those.

[woodwwad]

@TowerGuardDM Damn brother, I feel bad for you, only getting to play once per month that's pretty bad. Here's hoping you find more game time soon.

[TowerGuardDM]

@woodwwad Yeah, it is bad. I stopped pushing my group to play more though. Joined other groups, those were short lived. Hoping things will change but as I tell my group, nothing will change if we don't change it and life is too short to just work all the time and not enjoy it.

[woodwwad]

@TowerGuardDM That's too bad man, but you are right, you have to get your fun in life.

[ThalesII]

This seems to be an interesting system for combat, much different from the regular dices. Although as you mentioned, it can cause some unusual combat scenarios... Imagine if both the NPC and the PC decide to flee at the same time!

PS: When I first looked at this flowchart it seemed to me much more humoristic than it is reliable... take a look at the part after "genre shouldn't matter"

[TowerGuardDM]

@ThalesII Yeah, it isn't meant to be a rigid chart I do not think, more or less a guide to point someone in the general direction of their interest.

[PagrZero]

Another great video! Did the chart and it looks like Warhammer 40K was suggested. Since I have most of it on my shelf already I'm pretty content.

[TowerGuardDM]

@PagrZero I just got Rites of Battle in today. Man, I want to run some Deathwatch!

[Webhead123]

Very cool overview. I've heard of Burning Wheel and even considered picking it up at one time. I seem to recall that my research and reading of reviews left me on the fence about the game on the whole but my decision to not buy-in was probably ultimately influenced by my general falling-out with fantasy RPGs at the time.

Woot! Bygone Bestiary! My favorite WoD supplement. I like the "custom monster" creation rules at the back of the book. I built my favorite WoD character from that book.

[TowerGuardDM]

@Webhead123 Yeah, it is all still up in the air for me here. Seems I am picking up different books from different systems and I cannot seem to just choose one, hehe.

[Flackon]

That flowchart looks cool, but it seems to be outdated or severely misinformed. Skimming through it I get the impression that it's suggesting that GURPS has a really complicated ruleset, which isn't true at all.

[TowerGuardDM]

@Flackon Most likely made by a hobbyist and nothing is perfect. Gives a general idea though.

[Webhead123]

@Flackon I would consider GURPS to be complex, albeit not in the same way that a game system like Palladium is complex. The complexity of GURPS comes from the breadth and specificity of its individual rules components and the fact that the players/GM must compile them into a whole rather than from complexity of core mechanics and general game play. GURPS (and HERO for that matter) are very "front-end heavy". Once you've done the work, the game flows better, but some work is required. Just MHO.

[Flackon]

@Webhead123 Yes, exactly. GURPS can be very complex but it isn't complicated*. There's the misconception that it is, and i don't know where that comes from. In that flowchart, the paths that lead to GURPS reference Phds in maths and differential equations, which is a bit exagerated. i understand it's a bit tongue in cheek, but what that does is perpetuate the idea that GURPS is complex to understand and use.

[Webhead123]

@Flackon Agreed. The flowchart on the whole does have some flaws/peculiarites if one is taking it too genuinely. One example is that one can't get to BESM as a system option unless you choose "Mecha" as the genre that interests you (I am not a fan of the Mecha genre but think BESM is a pretty nifty system). I also didn't see mention of any Unisystem games in the available results which suggests to me that it didn't register on the creators radar. A fun read and kinda useful but not perfect.

[Flackon]

@Webhead123 I admit that the combat can be pretty cumbersome sometimes. That's because it was originally adapted from a tactical wargame and wasn't part of the original system design. Even then, you can easily substitute it for a simplified version.

I've heard elsewhere that criticism that GURPS is very Front-loaded, but I don't understand what that means exactly. Could you give me some exaples of systems or games that aren't, so I can get a better idea?

[Webhead123]

@Flackon Obviously, one consideration when saying that something is "front-loaded" is setting considerations. With GURPS being "universal" you either need to purchase one of their setting sourcebooks or brew your own, which involves a good bit of crunching the system to meet your ideas.

Another is that a lot of GURPS values are derived from other values. One of the things I look for in an RPG is (since I GM a lot) how quick and easy it is to "wing" stats for an NPC. The more detailed the...

[Webhead123]

cont...required amount of crunching to get a servicable stat block, the less satisfied I am because often I'm forced to give NPCs stats on-the-spot during a session. Likewise for vehicles, gear, etc.

Also being a "universal" system, the GM needs to set out beforehand what is an isn't acceptible for players to purchase for their characters to avoid the "feed bag" issue of players picking traits that are "in the rules" by not campaign appropriate. It requires a good bit of prep to run optimally

[Flackon]

@Webhead123 Aha, it makes sense now. When I GMed GURPS I did it with a setting of my own invention, so it was perfect for my needs and the pre-game crunching was pretty much a necessity anyway. I see how some would like a more "pick up and play" style for some games but I actually enjoy all the preprocessing. Then again, I actually am a software engineer, so maybe that flowchart isn't that far fetched.

[Flackon]

@Webhead123 Also, running that campaign I definitely ran into both the "feed bag" problem and had some difficulty making NPC stats on the spot, but in the end, it's nothing that can't be mostly fixed by communicating your planning to your characters beforehand, and having some quick cheat sheets prepared...

[Webhead123]

@Flackon I tend to run a fairly "loose and informal" style of game, so I value anything that keeps my job as GM quick, simple and organic. It also doesn't help that I have players who often surprise me with the actions and schemes of their PCs, so even if I've done some considerable prep for an adventure, they'll always find ways to get into situations that I hadn't considered. I'm fine with that, though. I enjoy the challenge, so long as the numbers are fast and forgiving.

[Webhead123]

@Flackon I think Deadlands Reloaded might be a good example of a game that's not "front-loaded". It has a setting and genre built in, so expectations are pre-set for both players and GM. However, it also has a very focused system in terms of what is required to create a character, what abilities are campaign-appropriate (inherent its genre-specific design) and what types of characters lend themselves to what types of abilities. The rules are also pretty self-contained and not heavily derivative.

[KeeperoftheFortress]

Oh wow Burning Wheel.. I remember when That first came out. Was interesting just could never get a group for it though. Though I confess I forget how to use the system now. I have to find my brown and red book again. I only have those two books.

[TowerGuardDM]

@KeeperoftheFortress If you ever get a group up and running with it, I would be interested in hearing what everyone has to say about it.

[KeeperoftheFortress]

@TowerGuardDM Ill have to re learn it first. I did a emo of the combat and social resolution stuff it offers back before they released it with the guys who made it. It was fun. A bit of a rock papers sissors type of thing but It lends it was fun. The social "combat" was great.

[kiddowido]

I've seen this system. Did you check with your group first or are you just going to drop it on them?

[TowerGuardDM]

@kiddowido Told them about it. We haven't tried it yet though.

[Samwise7RPG]

I gave Burning Wheel a shot awhile back. A friend of mine was running a campaign, and I gave it a go. It has a lot of cool ideas, but it also had some things I didn't much care for. I know people love it, but I just couldn't get into it. Like any other RPG though, you could houserule away anything you didn't like. I think my friend used the XP rules from WOD for it.

[TowerGuardDM]

@Samwise7RPG What about it didn't you like?

[Samwise7RPG]

@TowerGuardDM While I liked the idea of the combat system, it never seemed to work that great in my experience. The health mechanic seemed confusing too. The way the game handled skills was cool, and yet not. I remember there being lots of skills, and no standard set of them.  I think it just seemed more crunchy than it needed to be. That campaign is still going strong though, so like I said, people love it. I wanted to like it, I just didn't for some reason. I gave the GM my books.

[TowerGuardDM]

@Samwise7RPG Interesting. Well, I do have some fall back plans as well if our group doesn't care for it.

[Samwise7RPG]

@TowerGuardDM You could always house rule away the parts you don't like (if that is the case). Don't let my opinion scare you off of it, because I know a lot of podcasts and other people love that game.

[pridday88]

Haha, I just found that flowchart a couple days ago, it's funny yet true. I've been reading reviews of BW but can't make up my mind if it's really for me. It's definitely got some cool-sounding rules and mechanics--a very different approach than most games.

[TowerGuardDM]

@pridday88 Yeah, we'll see how it plays out whenever I can get my group to try it. We have a couple campaigns already running so it might be awhile. In the meantime I will get more familiar with the rules.

[TheOutsiders68]

great review mate..what software for the tree.

[TowerGuardDM]

@TheOutsiders68 Thanks, I put the links in the description box otherwise known as "Azirk's Dungeon."

[RadicalAns]

@TheOutsiders68 I do a ton of flow charts like that for work and use Microsoft Visio for them. Might want to check out Open Office Draw or Google Docs Draw for a free option.

[TowerGuardDM]

@RadicalAns Great info, thanks!