This vid is dangerous for the clueless... Simply put, since the Torah is eternal its manifestation is dynamic rather than static through the course of time. Even more simply put, the words of the Rabbis only transmits (mesora) that which intrinsically is part of the Torah, so it is perfectly alright to assume that the Avos kept the torah and did so without the text, like the story of Yosef, which is part of the mesora in the physical form.
Can you imagine what an example it would set for the world if we were able to find a way to live in peace in Eretz Yisrael? All the pieces of the puzzle are there: a shared monotheistic tradition, a shared land, and shared interests. Perhaps we are closer to actualizing this goal than most people realize. May Hashem bless us with the wisdom to achieve this.
A PRAYER FOR PALESTINE FROM A JEW: Let us help them to create something extraordinary,just as we have for ourselves-it is in our best interest to do so!Let us help them to build a home they will love with all their hearts, as we love Israel!Wouldn’t we both be foolish to risk damaging something so precious?We are both great nations…let us never forget this.Let us nurture peace with our enemies, and recognize that they are a mirror…reflecting light unto the nations.
A PRAYER FOR PALESTINE FROM A JEW: Let us help them to create something extraordinary,just as we have for ourselves-it is in our best interest to do so!Let us help them to build a home they will love with all their hearts, as we love Israel!Wouldn’t we both be foolish to risk damaging something so precious?We are both great nations…let us never forget this.Let us nurture peace with our enemies, and recognize that they are a mirror…reflecting light unto the nations.
LOTSA BITTERNESSSSSSSSSS I S THE JUST OF IT,, .Ya , the Torah is GLORIUS .. Our Forefathers ...had lived the Torah simply because they Got IT !! They understood what Hashem wanted from HIS world .zehu.
Now Ms KrumBagel ..lets talk about who ticked you off as a kid growing up in "the System" . I posit that as a Gal you were closed off ............. and you never forgave That/Those People ....and will carry this BURDEN with you till death ...
LOTSA BITTERNESSSSSSSSSS I S THE JUST OF IT,, .Ya , the Torah is GLORIUS .. Our Forefathers ...had lived the Torah simply because they Got IT !! They understood what Hashem wanted from HIS world .zehu.
Now Ms KrumBagel ..lets talk about who ticked you off as a kid growing up in "the System" . I posit that as a Gal you were closed off .............
Please, give some minutes to at least analyze who we are belive it is worth, I did it.
All the best!
PD: after listening to that class that will solve many of your questions have this for for dessert You'll LAUGHTso much!!! (Great "humour" but with Great "SENSE")
@newyorkempiricist I'm, happy you want to research, I hold? The torah holds? without the Talmud, you can't even read the Torah! Even your translations relies on the Talmud. Go to Leviticus 12:5 and tell me what the girst number is 70? or 14 (2 weeks)?. Go to Exodus 23:19 and tell me what is the Torah forbidding Fat or Milk?. If you want really want to do an honest reserach (remember I was not born orthodox and I accepted the challenge) Go and listen to this class = >(see next post)
@newyorkempiricist It says The Torot? If not the Talmud what other option you have? why jews blow the shofar in Yom Kipur and not a flaute? The Torah does not specify what is the Shofar? Where is described the Shofar => In the Talmud, How the Torah suppose we should know how how are built the Tefile (Black, square shape). The Torah just call them Totafot => The Talmud. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE To keep the Torah if you don't know the Talmud
@newyorkempiricist Numbres 20:24 "Aaron shall be gathered to his people; for he shall not enter into the land which I have given to the people of Israel, because you rebelled against my word at the water of Meribah.
[Numbers 20: 24]
". After Aharon passed away where is he going to be gathered with his people?
Debarim 18:11 forbids consulting with the dead, Debarim 17:14 says that wicked are paid in THIS world (their goods acts)
Once got into an argument w/a yeshiva student over what I'd learned in junior high math class: that our current system of timekeeping came from the Babylonians, who had a number system of base six (thus 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, etc). He argued that in the Gemara they talk about what hours of day to say certain prayers, and thus our current timekeeping system was also given at Sinai. *facepalm*
Thanks to that JEW that ONLY believed in the 5 books (like some other people here), the romans killed thousands of Jews, and later on, his followers implemented the crusades, and then the Inquisition whre they burn THOUSANDS of our garndparents... Being a jew does not give you green light to do WRONG things.
@BGrossG Your comments come off as rather bigoted BGrossG. Being a Christian doesn't necessarily make you an anti-Semite (most aren't in fact). Christianity (and Islam) are Jewish gifts to the world (ie. ethical monotheism). It doesn't bother me that Jesus was a Jew. Many non Jews adopted Hashem's ethical principles because of Jesus and Mohammad. Even though the Torah is our story, a Jewish story, it exists for all the nations and for the glory of Hashem.
@newyorkempiricist Newyork It’s not bad to ask, actually it’s GREAT! That’s what the Gemara does all the time, that’s what the Hagadda of Pesach teach us… , but to ask with the intention of knowing the Truth, in a high intellectual level looking for answers to our existence. Making fun and ignoring facts, looking for “cheap” humor is not the way. Take the challenge, I did long time ago and I’m very happy. get that Book (Rejoice O’ Youth by Avigdor Miller), you’ll love it!
@newyorkempiricist (2) You say that the Torah never say that The Gemara is Torah : Go To Leviticus 26:46. You see it’s a pity; most of the Jewish people didn’t have even the opportunity to know the real information most if the time “fake” leaders have taken advantage of us and didn’t let us check the information and decide based on objective reasoning. Please get the Book Rejoice O’ Youth by Avigdor Miller, you’ll really enjoy!
(4) In 1885, Dr. Kaufman Kohler convened the Pittsburgh conference of Reform leaders said: I do not for a moment hesitate to say it right here and in the face of the entire Jewish world that… circumcision is a barbarous cruelty which disfigures and disgraces our ancestral heirloom and our holy mission as priests among mankind. The rite is a national remnant of savage African life…
SOURCE: Tracing the tree of life, Lawrence Kelemen. Jewish Action, Summer 99, p. 17-21 ):
(3) In 1857, Wise published a new prayer book which omitted the traditional prayers for a return to Zion “We consider ourselves no longer a nation, but a religious community, and therefore expect neither a return to Palestine nor the restoration of any of the laws concerning the Jewish state.”
SOURCE: Tracing the tree of life, Lawrence Kelemen. Jewish Action, Summer 99, p. 17-21 ):
(2) In 1837, Geiger called the first Reform rabbinical conference in Wiesbaden, Germany, and declared “The Talmud must go, the Bible, that collection of mostly so beautiful and exalted human books, as a divine work must also go”. With this declaration, Reform became the first known group in more than 3,100 years of Jewish history to deny the Torah’s divine origin
(SOURCE: Tracing the tree of life, Lawrence Kelemen. Jewish Action, Summer 99, p. 17-21 ):
(1) one of Mendelssohn’s greatest students, David Friedlander (1765-1834), wrote to Pastor Teller, Counsellor of the Prussian Ministry of Religion, on behalf of himself and several other Jewish householders, offering to join the Lutheran Church, Only after Pastor Teller rejected Friedlander’s request for conversion did this student of Mendelssohn set himself to the task of reforming his own religion
To “staitman”, you say you “certainly know the history of reform Judaism”, so maybe you should also take a look at this (remove the spaces on the links): simpletoremember. com/articles/a/WillYourGrandchildrenBeJews/
And for more details is the “history of reform movement”, maybe you’d like to know this facts .simpletoremember. com/articles/a/reformconservativeorthodox/
You say “The Reform movement saved Judaism, and no serious historian will deny that”. I guess that by saving you mean that if not for it number of jews will decrease or go to zero. You know, it’s not what you I say, but there are facts look at this AMAZING study and you tell me if the reform movement saved judaism:
@newyorkempiricist Newyorkempiricist: I know that you probably don’t think like that but when you say that “The motive is ALL that matters”, that’s exactly what the Nazis wanted to use as an excuse. They could take a jewish pregnant women and do experiments with her till they will kill her (as mengele did) with an “excuse” maybe those experiments will lead him to discover some new cures, obviously you don’t agree with that, “The motive is NOT all that matters”
@BGrossG SERIOUSLY BGrossG, YOU HAVE GOT TO KNOCK THIS OFF! It is horribly offensive and takes away from your point. I am sympathetic with some of the points you are trying make, but equating other Jews, or assimilation in general, to the perversity of the Nazis diminishes your point and is wrong. And BTW, the some of the points you are tyring to make are rooted in a deontological ethic (i.e. a Kantian ethic)… Just FYI
@9486034566 Why do you surprise that BGrossG relates you to Nazis? You and newyorkem etc. prefer to be linked to the Yebanim? You both are the same? It scare you more body holocaust than spiritual holocaust? That the same you both and creamlatkes (sorry I ment krumbagel) are doing. So BGrossG yeyasher kochacha and keep going calling them Nazim, may be they awake and make Teshuba.
@OMI7228 Why would one Jew ever say such a thing to another Jew? Why do Jews sometimes attack the Jewishness of other Jews? Why would one Jew compare another Jew to a Nazi? If a Jew does not conform to your rigid understanding of what a Jew is, must you always attack them? Jews against Jews...that, it seems to me, is the greater threat to Jewish continuity. Shame on you.
@9486034566 Dear fellow Jew @9486034566, It seems your Teshuba has started, Boruch Hashem, so please tell to krumbagel, to newyorkem and to Natan Slifkin, Gil Student etc. to stop all this dangerous games, and lets go all together ( of course also with BGrossG) back to open the Guemara in Masejes Shabbat 22, 23 and study about Chanukah. About what you wrote Shame on you... Any Mochel.
@OMI7228 In the future, maybe you will realize that just because Jews have different opinions other than yours, it doesn't make their neshema any less Jewish (or deserving of being compared to Nazis). This is the very point this very clever video makes. You have proved krumbagel's points many times over in our debate. Now go learn Torah and try to see in it how our Jewish diversity has always been the source of our unity. Baruch Hashem.
@9486034566 It's not so easy as you say, Baruch Hashem. I did not prove any of krumbagel points, the opposite. If he do not make Teshuba, I continue thinking like BGrossG. I went to learn Tora early morning today and found in Chagiga 9a in the Sefa of the Mishna Rabbi Shimon ben Yochay omer... now you go to learn, I think it concerns to you.
@OMI7228 You should reread both of our comments from the beginning, then think carefully about what we are discussing and the point this video is trying to make about Jewish dialectics Then tell me that you didn't prove my point.
@9486034566 I think the "main" idea here is rather that Judaism laudably preserves a built in "self-checking system" where ideas adopted by many of it's followers, can be critiqued by others from "the inside", and rejected when necessary. This way illogical, antiquated, and even harmful racist inventions- such as the existent of the "jewish neshama" you referred to, can be reconsidered and thrown out with the rest of the garbage accumulated over the millennia.
@shmuelnahum I agree with most of what you said. However, there is nothing inherently racist about claiming a Jewish Neshema... A Jewish Neshema does not necessarily imply exclusion of another group.
Is one's identity always necessarily constructed in opposition to another? What about the ways YOU self identify? Please be more sensitive to this in others. I believe identity can be constructed in positive terms as well, otherwise all constructed identities would be racist.
@9486034566 I appreciate your response. I prepared a response to your points but I want to send to you as a message since it is more than alloted character count....
@shmuelnahum BTW, what is this all about where Jews try to delegitimize the Jewishness of other Jews? Your comment is just like the previous one - Jews calling other Jews Nazis? What is this? Is it reaction formation? Is it PDSD? Is it self hating? Do you or anyone else reading this have any insights into this? It is so sad to see this.
@9486034566 Go the past and LEARN. Around 2000 years ago A JEW decided to make fun of TorahSheVeAlPeh, but HE BELIEVED VERY MUCH in the TORAH (5 Book of Moses) so much a new religion was founded following him and based on what they called THE OLD TESTAMENT. BUT he didn't like Torah SheVealPeh they called Pharisees to the followers of the Torah SheaVeAlPeh.. (see next post)
@BGrossG SERIOUSLY BGrossG, YOU HAVE GOT TO KNOCK THIS OFF! It is horribly offensive and takes away from your point. I am sympathetic with some of the points you are trying make, but equating other Jews, or assimilation in general, to the perversity of the Nazis diminishes your point and is wrong. And BTW, the some of the points you are tyring to make are rooted in a deontological ethic (i.e. a Kantian ethic)… Just FYI
@newyorkempiricist Newyorkempiricist: don’t feel so connected with Kant, he didn’t like you (us) so much, Kant: ‘The Jews are by nature “sharp dealers” who are “bound together by superstition.” Their “immoral and vile” behavior in commerce shows that they “do not aspire to civic virtue,” for “the spirit of usury holds sway amongst them.” They are “a nation of swindlers” who benefit only “from deceiving their host’s culture.” ‘ Source: Weiss, John. 1996. Ideology of Death. Page 67.
Newyorkempiricist : You said you were once orthodox, in my case I was not born orthodox it was never an option where I lived, I didn’t even know what was to be “orthodox”. I went to University became a professor in Science, Math, Artificial Intelligence, Comp Science, worked for the Top High End Fortune Companies, they send me to Harvard, Babson, etc…. and after all that I decided to do my “intellectual” research about the Torah… and found the beauty of it, we all can do that
(con't from previous) effort, even to a "brilliant questioner" like you, to figure it out?
However, I suspect you are not really interested in an answer. But be aware, because making fun of Chazal and of Rav Elyashiv, and having others give you their thumbs up, will weigh a lot on one side of the scales when your day comes. Unless you want to make fund of that too...
Theoretically you have a valid question, but... do you think you are so "brilliant" (as Kohelet puts it)? Do you think all giants in knowledge that preceded you (and that will continue to be studied while you will be long forgotten) never thought of that question? Have you ever delved into the words of the Gemara, Rashi, Tosfos, Ran, Ritva, Rashba, Pnei Yehoshua, Rabbi Akiva Eiger, Rav Shlomo Kluger, Chofetz Chaim, Chida, Chazon Ish, just to name a few? If you have, doesn't it take a tremendous.
krumbagel: please do not take the comments of BGrossG to represent the attitude of all orthodox jews (BGrossG will accuse anyone who disagrees with him of being a nazi, and thus disrespects and debases the memories of the holocaust). your work is really great, well reasoned, and respectful of the tradition. keep up the great work!
(Continuation from the Prev Post) And Mr. “newyorkempiricist”, don’t be so “innocent” when you mention the word “Midrashim”, he makes fun of the Gemara in Yoma 28B.
And if you want more go to Hilchos Tshuva 3:8 when the RAMBAM call Apikoros (with no cheleck in Olam Aba!) to those who goes against the Torah SheBealPe such as Tzadok and Baytos… Don’t wait a second more and DO TSHUVA. Believe me what you’re doing here is not pashut.
To: Mr. “newyorkempiricist”, what “krum”’s affiliation is, I don’t know but I can’t tell you I won’t trust my kids education to him (to be very polite). But what HE DID IS LIKE THE NAZIS DID, you like it or not.
You are so proud to be “Rationalist”, so use the logic!: I just showed that what the NAZIS and other people did attacking and distorting the Torah is what he’s doing. That’s black and white, don’t lie to yourself. (see next post)
@9486034566 I repeat to you: what “krum”’s affiliation is, I don’t know but I can’t tell you I won’t trust my kids education to him (to be very polite). But what HE DID IS LIKE THE NAZIS DID, you like it or not.
By the way being a Jew does not give anyone green light to make fun our Torah...Our grandparents gave their life in the Holocaust and in the Inquisition and many more times for what you are now having some fun and “humour”=> "shame on you"
@BGrossG I would never make fun of the Torah! I love the Torah! Krum is not making fun of the Torah either. Krum is revealing its truth, and the truth of Hashem, and showing us that you don't have to disregard logic and reality to believe in Hashem. You on the other hand, debase and disrespect the memory of the Holocaust by comparing this to the Nazis. You should do Tshuva.
I just read R' Yair Hoffman's response to this video. He sees in it a leftist agenda to undermine the yeshivas. I - and any other rational person who actually went to yeshiva and has a beating heart - sees a frustrated yeshiva bochur with a bit too much common sense for his own good.
What a paranoid, sickly religious leadership we have today.
Bravo OMI7228!, "staitman" why you don't go and review a little bit of history you know how the "reform" movement started? ahhhh.... now I see the connection between "R"eform and "R"ational Judaism...
Mr "newyorkempiricist" How do you save "Judaism" by having your students and descendants being assimilate? Go to any of his "Centers" or "Temples" (if you can find anyone) and tell me how great is the attendance....
@BGrossG How wonderful it is that you are so willing to show your ignorance and bigotry in a public forum. As a Reform Rabbi I certainly know the history of Reform Judaism, which clearly you do not. You are an ignorant behamah, which is not particularly amazing.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Krumbagel.
Talking in rationalist language, you are very wrong. And I won’t call you a kofer, I will call you short sighted, I will call you non rationalist. Remember Moshe Mendelson, most of his grandsons were Goyim.
Yes Krum Goyim, no rationalist Jews or Reform Jews, Goyim!
You, “rationalist Krum” are worst than the worst of the reformist. That movie is an attack not just to Judaism, it’s an attack to Torat Hashem, and Hashem is not Vatran. Don´t play danger games Krumbagel.
... “9486034566” You say “DISREPECTFUL”, and you mention the Holocaust!, our grandparents gave their life during the Holocaust for the same Torah you are now making fun of, remember R Elchonon Wasserman ZZ”L, and your friends make public fun of a GADOL HADOR of our generation and you talk about being direspectful!...
My recommendation to “9486034566” is go and take a course on “comprehensive reading” then you can re-read again my post and try to understand...
"Not the same category"?: This video “distorts” the Torah, the Nazis –yemach sheman- also did the same, go and learn some history did you hear about “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”??? you and your friends who produced this video don’t like a part of the Torah they didn’t like another part....
I am not quite sure why everyone here is applauding an individual for defeating himself in a debate. As an aside, some of the questions mentioned are still problematic even if you completely ignore the gemara that says the avos kept the entire torah. I believe even you would acknowledge that God gave Moshe the entire Torah, which occurred before much of what is mentioned there. So you have 2 basic options, disregard the Torah r'l or acknowledge some sense of ignorance.
I am not quite sure why everyone here is applauding an individual for defeating himself in a debate. As an aside, some of the questions mentioned are still problematic even if you completely ignore the gemara that says the avos kept the entire torah. I believe even YU self proclaimed intellectuals would acknowledge that God gave Moshe the entire Torah, which occurred before much of what is mentioned there. So you have 2 basic options, disregard the Torah or acknowledge some sense of ignorance.
This video only reveals IGNORANCE obviously the writer does not understand even basic Torah concepts, and DISTORT them to make fun of the Torah, in a similar way like the NAZIS -yemach sheman vezijram- did it in the past, the same video in a NEONAZI site will upset all of us, and here some people call it "brilliant". H” Yishmerenu.
I can't believe that a person that went to Yeshiva produced this, well unless he spent his time "texting" or doing some other "modern" activities in his"Yeshiva"
@BGrossG you mean "modern" activities like posting comments like yours on youtube? your comments are disrespectful. they debase the memory of the Holocaust by comparing anyone who disagrees with you to a nazi. this is clearly not in that same category.
Does Yeshiva Guy hold that 'Eisav was a Tzaddik who kept the entire Torah including the DeRabanan that everyone must wash before eating bread (as a Zecher to remind us all that Kohanim can't eat Terumah while they are Temeim)?
Youtube was created primarily for the important activities of Bitul Torah and Pritzus. It's a blunt instrument for subtle analysis of difficult Talmud passages and a critique of traditional understandings.
The video is a cute satire of closed minded yeshivish dopes but the matter is a bit troublesome for people who respect the gemara.
In Yoma28b says in the name of Rava that Avraham " even kept eruv tavshilin." Rashi points out it is a decree that would only be invented in the future.
I'll admit I laughed. You are a brilliant satirist.
However, it's not a good idea to make jokes about the Torah, even if your intentions are good, as I believe they are. These jokes will eventually lead to bad if you keep it up.
I would advise you to erase this video and your other video on the Slifkin debate.
This is disgusting, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Ignorance, mixed with humour.So sadd.
As if this is a practical logical conversation, and casually making the torah seem as if is a joke, through the absurd replies he gives.
"No crocs, and he wore converse"?
"Did they go to YU they must not be part of our mesorah"?
Forget about the actual conversation, there are so many ignorant points i"m not gnna begin... If you want to really get a glimpse, go to yeshiva with a bit of kabolas ol...
1) Isn't is awesome that it is the cartoon GIRL provokes the discussion with the yeshiva bochur and intelligently debates him (she must have learned these gemaras from photocopies).
2) Isn't this made even more ludicrous by the robotic, computerized voices...
36,648 views, can't all be orthodox jews. Those of you who aren't please understand, this is no exaggeration, there are people who talk EXACTLY like this.
Rav Elyshuv paskened that crocks are shoes for yom kipper,
but he is a Gra'nik and the Gra is choshesh for the Rambam who holds all shoes are assur on Yom kipper not just leather (Mideorysa). I doubt that he'd feel that way about tish abov
"Did Yaakov wear crocks on Tisha B'Av? No, Rav Elyashiv says crocks are too comfortable. He wore Converse."
Hahahahahah!!! GREAT line!
(FYI - for those of you too young to remember - in the olden days before crocks, and before "Keds", everyone wore Converse on Tisha B'Av and Yom Kippur.)
I am not quite sure why everyone here is applauding an individual for defeating himself in a debate. As an aside, some of the questions mentioned are still problematic even if you completely ignore the gemara that says the avos kept the entire torah. I believe even YU self proclaimed intellectuals would acknowledge that God gave Moshe the entire Torah, which occurred before much of what is mentioned there. So you have 2 basic options, disregard the Torah or acknowledge some sense of ignorance.
@atpadp1987@atpadp1987 No, you interpret the gemara metaphorically as the Rambam says to (as referring to the "spirit" or principles behind those laws) . And don't most proclaim the Torah text was given throughout the 40 years- not in one spurt- with the last part about Moshe dying being the only challenge. The Talmud offers 2 creative ways to deal with those last 8 or so verses.
"OK, let's make believe none of these problems exist, and in fact Yaacov, with the help of his time-space bending machine, kept all of the commandments in the Torah."
This is appallingly disrespectful to Chazal. There is a difference between asking a question and ridiculing Chazal. The piece is also conveniently presumptuous about the meaning of that particular idea.
@shmengs That's the point. He's trying to show how some people distort what chazal said and twist it into the most unbelievable thing by choosing the wildest and most irrational interpretation of what chazal actually said and distorting the idea they presented. The brown bear plays that role in this video. It is the brown bear and his ilk who make a joke of chazal, just as the Rambam explains about fools interpreting midrashim in his intro to perek chelek.
As hilarious as this video is, I prefer the yeshiva guy's vort in this video over some of the claptrap being promoted in the comments by the "tikkun olam" guy who keeps trying to sell us a bill of goods about his beloved "palestine" fantasies.
@dpanzer As soon as you look up "karaite." Since you busy junking commentators & their traditions, don't forget that to people like you "eye for an eye" is literal just like that Shi''ite doctor in Pakistan who burned out a fellow Muslim's eye in fulfillment of your interpretation of the Torah "unencumbered" by the commentators. The only consequence I see is people jettisoning, G-d forbid, the whole Torah because of your unnecessary zilzul of meforashim, resulting in less morality.
The Avoth keep the ESSENCE of the 4 species (unity of ALL of Jewry) , the essence of 'Amaleq (casting doubt on the Divine) & these essences existed even before the Exodus, but were only manifested in physical form AFTER the Exodus. Ya'aqov's version of the Torah joined the letters at different points & were OPEN until they actually took place. H prevent Ya'aqov from knowing about Yosef & brothers which to Ya'aqov appeared as mashiach b Yosef vs. mashiach b Dawidh (Rachel vs. Leah's sons).
@krumbagel: Good work so far! Keep it up. But you missed the biggest one: Ya'akov married a woman and her sister! That's problematic even according to liberal interpretations of "Kol HaTorah Kula." To resolve that, one has to say the laws of morality changed, that they apply differently to different people, or are arbitrary.
Also you guys need to study some Maharal and or Zohar it will make the questions you ask seem simple and raise questions which will turn you into a sociopath who rapes little boys and uses their blood to write comments on youtube.
Also you guys need to study some Maharal and or Zohar it will make the questions you ask seem simple and raise questions which will turn you into a sociopath how rapes little boys and uses their blood to write comments on youtube.
This is only "controversial" because too may people are unaware that over 800 years ago the Rishonim discounted the possibility that the Patriarchs kept all the commandments
Yichmich, that's not what yeshiva guy (or his ilk) is saying. There's a difference between saying that the Avos kept "Torah" in some sense of the word and saying that followed the psakim of the mishna brura.
I am not quite sure why everyone here is applauding an individual for defeating himself in a debate. As an aside, some of the questions mentioned are still problematic even if you completely ignore the gemara that says the avos kept the entire torah. I believe even YU self proclaimed intellectuals would acknowledge that God gave Moshe the entire Torah, which occurred before much of what is mentioned there. So you have 2 basic options, disregard the Torah or acknowledge some sense of ignorance.
@OldLeftie the point is that they kept the will of God but in a manner that is different from ours. Cy Young could not win the Cy Young award but that does not mean he was not a great ballplayer. The average person has trouble putting things into historical context which is why the medrashim maintain that Yaakov was a tzadik in a manner we are used to.
@jschping you asked if I can name even one Rishon who didn't literally accept the last mishna in Kidushin. In fact, I can name four: Ramban, Rashbam, Chizkuni, and Radak. See them all on Gen 26:5.
@TheDovieb Someone's going around flagging insighful comments (like Dovieb's) as spam (curiously, the flagged comments all seem to be on one side of the debate).
According to the Zohar, Yaakov kept all the mitzvot but in a different manner, for example Yaakov kept the mitzva of tfillin by making the stripes on the sticks. ( see the minchas asher on parshas vayishlach)
A PRAYER FOR PALESTINE FROM A JEW: Let us help them to create something extraordinary,just as we have for ourselves-it is in our best interest to do so.Let us help them to build a home they will love with all their hearts, as we love Israel!Wouldn’t we both be foolish to risk damaging something so precious?We are both great nations…let us never forget this.Let us nurture peace with our enemies, and recognize that they are a mirror…reflecting light unto the nations.
A. Besides absurdity, what does your comments have to do with this video.
B. We have already given them 6 opportunities, yes 6 since 1947 to create a country and they have said no, with violence their only repertoire. Therefore, they don't want a two state solution but our annihilation and a one state solution on our ashes.
But why did Ya’ akov give Esav bread with his lentil stew? Because he knew it was in his best interest to do so…that it was better for both of them if Esav did not feel cheated of his birthright. We find ourselves at a historic crossroads, where a viable long term peace with the Palestinians is possible… (continued below)
@xoxogavigirl (continued)…If we do not act wisely, the long term security of Israel is in jeopardy. It is in the strategic interest of Israel to support a stable, economically prosperous, democratically vibrant Palestinian state. In order to do this, we must give the Palestinians more than just a bowl of lentil stew.
@tikkunolam613 Acting wisely is waiting for a green light to cross at a cross walk. Acting with clear depravity for survival and abandon is crossing at the middle of the street with cars flying at you (you know the scene you see in many action movies where they are miraculously unhurt). You are calling for the second not that first. I believe in a two state solution of the US-Canada Border initiative type. Yet the Arabs don't want 2 states, democratically vibrant, or stability. Its been proven.
@tikkunolam613 Ad for your pathetic tie to lentil stew to address my A. 1. They are the Christians that come from Aisav not bnei Yishmael. 2. If Israel only had 10% in 1947 of the funds and global support these Arab nomads have received in financing Israel would have been an economic giant within 10 years of its reestablishment and definitely have prevented the whole financial collapse of the Israeli currency in the early - mid 80s.
The Arabs haven't only gotten the stew but the whole kitchen
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Who ever made this is a moron because it is well known that every Jew cant keep all 613 commandments its just not possible but if you do as many as are within your power to do then its as if your doing all 613.
A- Video never stated all Jews must keep 613 - you did
B- Video DOES question the ability of ANYONE to obey a takana or psak halacha that's not yet been made
C- Your statement "if you do as many as are within your power to do then its as if your doing all 613." is questionable, at best. If you do a mitzvah, you did that m. If you didn't do it, you didn't do it. Period. I'm not a Kohen or a King, my doing other m's isn't "as if" I also did their m's.
About C, please read the Ye'hee Ra'tzoan before many of our mitzvote and you will notice that the phrase there reads (loosely translating) "the mitzvah I am about to do should be as if I completed all 613 mitzvote." Once such example is with Sukkah. Even tzizit, depending on your opinion, is either a reminder of all 613 mitzvote or doing this mitzvah is as if you are doing these mitzvote. Some food for thought.
mag-locus hahaha
slapshot01j 4 weeks ago
Makes me glad I'm a Repubicanist.
SatchmoSings 2 months ago
This vid is dangerous for the clueless... Simply put, since the Torah is eternal its manifestation is dynamic rather than static through the course of time. Even more simply put, the words of the Rabbis only transmits (mesora) that which intrinsically is part of the Torah, so it is perfectly alright to assume that the Avos kept the torah and did so without the text, like the story of Yosef, which is part of the mesora in the physical form.
faznjaz 5 months ago
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ert000 7 months ago
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ert000 7 months ago
This is hilarious! Thank you for putting this up.
jchevlen 8 months ago
Ha ha ha! Sure this is what the Psalmist had in mind when singing (hebrew psalms 19,9)פקודי הוי''ה ישרים משמחי לב:
cupidchussid 1 year ago
let logic do its work
TheBlobert 1 year ago
Yeshivish guys picking on YU. That's some good observational comedy.
TheMessianicDrew 1 year ago
Can you imagine what an example it would set for the world if we were able to find a way to live in peace in Eretz Yisrael? All the pieces of the puzzle are there: a shared monotheistic tradition, a shared land, and shared interests. Perhaps we are closer to actualizing this goal than most people realize. May Hashem bless us with the wisdom to achieve this.
tikkunolam613 1 year ago
2 months ago
A PRAYER FOR PALESTINE FROM A JEW: Let us help them to create something extraordinary,just as we have for ourselves-it is in our best interest to do so!Let us help them to build a home they will love with all their hearts, as we love Israel!Wouldn’t we both be foolish to risk damaging something so precious?We are both great nations…let us never forget this.Let us nurture peace with our enemies, and recognize that they are a mirror…reflecting light unto the nations.
tikkunolam613 1 year ago
@tikkunolam613 Non-sense. The "palestinians" are the Amalikim of today.
TagMahirTzedek 3 months ago
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2 months ago
A PRAYER FOR PALESTINE FROM A JEW: Let us help them to create something extraordinary,just as we have for ourselves-it is in our best interest to do so!Let us help them to build a home they will love with all their hearts, as we love Israel!Wouldn’t we both be foolish to risk damaging something so precious?We are both great nations…let us never forget this.Let us nurture peace with our enemies, and recognize that they are a mirror…reflecting light unto the nations.
tikkunolam613 1 year ago
LOTSA BITTERNESSSSSSSSSS I S THE JUST OF IT,, .Ya , the Torah is GLORIUS .. Our Forefathers ...had lived the Torah simply because they Got IT !! They understood what Hashem wanted from HIS world .zehu.
Now Ms KrumBagel ..lets talk about who ticked you off as a kid growing up in "the System" . I posit that as a Gal you were closed off ............. and you never forgave That/Those People ....and will carry this BURDEN with you till death ...
EINODMILVADO613 1 year ago
LOTSA BITTERNESSSSSSSSSS I S THE JUST OF IT,, .Ya , the Torah is GLORIUS .. Our Forefathers ...had lived the Torah simply because they Got IT !! They understood what Hashem wanted from HIS world .zehu.
Now Ms KrumBagel ..lets talk about who ticked you off as a kid growing up in "the System" . I posit that as a Gal you were closed off .............
EINODMILVADO613 1 year ago
@EINODMILVADO613 WWWOOOOWWWWW!! wait a sec! KrumBagel is a GIRL?!!?! awesome!
TheBlobert 1 year ago
"....no, he wore Converse."
terrorislam666 1 year ago
Check out this related amusing link: youtube.com/watch?v=7Tfwbk-feK8
Letcommonsenserule1 1 year ago
(copy the links and just delete the spaces inside the links)
simpletoremember . com/media/a/Rational_Approach_Divinity_Oral_Tradition-B/
Please, give some minutes to at least analyze who we are belive it is worth, I did it.
All the best!
PD: after listening to that class that will solve many of your questions have this for for dessert You'll LAUGHTso much!!! (Great "humour" but with Great "SENSE")
simpletoremember . com/media/a/why-be-jewish/
BGrossG 1 year ago
@newyorkempiricist I'm, happy you want to research, I hold? The torah holds? without the Talmud, you can't even read the Torah! Even your translations relies on the Talmud. Go to Leviticus 12:5 and tell me what the girst number is 70? or 14 (2 weeks)?. Go to Exodus 23:19 and tell me what is the Torah forbidding Fat or Milk?. If you want really want to do an honest reserach (remember I was not born orthodox and I accepted the challenge) Go and listen to this class = >(see next post)
BGrossG 1 year ago
50,000+??
ari441 1 year ago
@newyorkempiricist It says The Torot? If not the Talmud what other option you have? why jews blow the shofar in Yom Kipur and not a flaute? The Torah does not specify what is the Shofar? Where is described the Shofar => In the Talmud, How the Torah suppose we should know how how are built the Tefile (Black, square shape). The Torah just call them Totafot => The Talmud. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE To keep the Torah if you don't know the Talmud
BGrossG 1 year ago
@newyorkempiricist Numbres 20:24 "Aaron shall be gathered to his people; for he shall not enter into the land which I have given to the people of Israel, because you rebelled against my word at the water of Meribah.
[Numbers 20: 24]
". After Aharon passed away where is he going to be gathered with his people?
Debarim 18:11 forbids consulting with the dead, Debarim 17:14 says that wicked are paid in THIS world (their goods acts)
BGrossG 1 year ago
Once got into an argument w/a yeshiva student over what I'd learned in junior high math class: that our current system of timekeeping came from the Babylonians, who had a number system of base six (thus 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, etc). He argued that in the Gemara they talk about what hours of day to say certain prayers, and thus our current timekeeping system was also given at Sinai. *facepalm*
ivmeer1976 1 year ago
Thanks to that JEW that ONLY believed in the 5 books (like some other people here), the romans killed thousands of Jews, and later on, his followers implemented the crusades, and then the Inquisition whre they burn THOUSANDS of our garndparents... Being a jew does not give you green light to do WRONG things.
BGrossG 1 year ago
@BGrossG Your comments come off as rather bigoted BGrossG. Being a Christian doesn't necessarily make you an anti-Semite (most aren't in fact). Christianity (and Islam) are Jewish gifts to the world (ie. ethical monotheism). It doesn't bother me that Jesus was a Jew. Many non Jews adopted Hashem's ethical principles because of Jesus and Mohammad. Even though the Torah is our story, a Jewish story, it exists for all the nations and for the glory of Hashem.
9486034566 1 year ago
@newyorkempiricist Newyork It’s not bad to ask, actually it’s GREAT! That’s what the Gemara does all the time, that’s what the Hagadda of Pesach teach us… , but to ask with the intention of knowing the Truth, in a high intellectual level looking for answers to our existence. Making fun and ignoring facts, looking for “cheap” humor is not the way. Take the challenge, I did long time ago and I’m very happy. get that Book (Rejoice O’ Youth by Avigdor Miller), you’ll love it!
BGrossG 1 year ago
@newyorkempiricist (2) You say that the Torah never say that The Gemara is Torah : Go To Leviticus 26:46. You see it’s a pity; most of the Jewish people didn’t have even the opportunity to know the real information most if the time “fake” leaders have taken advantage of us and didn’t let us check the information and decide based on objective reasoning. Please get the Book Rejoice O’ Youth by Avigdor Miller, you’ll really enjoy!
BGrossG 1 year ago
@newyorkempiricist (1) You want a mention of the afterlife from the 5 Books of Moses: Go to Bamidbar 20:24.
BGrossG 1 year ago
Jewish Action, Summer 99, p. 17-21 ):
(4) In 1885, Dr. Kaufman Kohler convened the Pittsburgh conference of Reform leaders said: I do not for a moment hesitate to say it right here and in the face of the entire Jewish world that… circumcision is a barbarous cruelty which disfigures and disgraces our ancestral heirloom and our holy mission as priests among mankind. The rite is a national remnant of savage African life…
BGrossG 1 year ago
SOURCE: Tracing the tree of life, Lawrence Kelemen. Jewish Action, Summer 99, p. 17-21 ):
(3) In 1857, Wise published a new prayer book which omitted the traditional prayers for a return to Zion “We consider ourselves no longer a nation, but a religious community, and therefore expect neither a return to Palestine nor the restoration of any of the laws concerning the Jewish state.”
BGrossG 1 year ago
SOURCE: Tracing the tree of life, Lawrence Kelemen. Jewish Action, Summer 99, p. 17-21 ):
(2) In 1837, Geiger called the first Reform rabbinical conference in Wiesbaden, Germany, and declared “The Talmud must go, the Bible, that collection of mostly so beautiful and exalted human books, as a divine work must also go”. With this declaration, Reform became the first known group in more than 3,100 years of Jewish history to deny the Torah’s divine origin
BGrossG 1 year ago
(SOURCE: Tracing the tree of life, Lawrence Kelemen. Jewish Action, Summer 99, p. 17-21 ):
(1) one of Mendelssohn’s greatest students, David Friedlander (1765-1834), wrote to Pastor Teller, Counsellor of the Prussian Ministry of Religion, on behalf of himself and several other Jewish householders, offering to join the Lutheran Church, Only after Pastor Teller rejected Friedlander’s request for conversion did this student of Mendelssohn set himself to the task of reforming his own religion
BGrossG 1 year ago
To “staitman”, you say you “certainly know the history of reform Judaism”, so maybe you should also take a look at this (remove the spaces on the links): simpletoremember. com/articles/a/WillYourGrandchildrenBeJews/
And for more details is the “history of reform movement”, maybe you’d like to know this facts .simpletoremember. com/articles/a/reformconservativeorthodox/
BGrossG 1 year ago
simpletoremember . com/articles/a/WillYourGrandchildrenBeJews/
BGrossG 1 year ago
You say “The Reform movement saved Judaism, and no serious historian will deny that”. I guess that by saving you mean that if not for it number of jews will decrease or go to zero. You know, it’s not what you I say, but there are facts look at this AMAZING study and you tell me if the reform movement saved judaism:
BGrossG 1 year ago
@newyorkempiricist Newyorkempiricist: I know that you probably don’t think like that but when you say that “The motive is ALL that matters”, that’s exactly what the Nazis wanted to use as an excuse. They could take a jewish pregnant women and do experiments with her till they will kill her (as mengele did) with an “excuse” maybe those experiments will lead him to discover some new cures, obviously you don’t agree with that, “The motive is NOT all that matters”
BGrossG 1 year ago
@BGrossG SERIOUSLY BGrossG, YOU HAVE GOT TO KNOCK THIS OFF! It is horribly offensive and takes away from your point. I am sympathetic with some of the points you are trying make, but equating other Jews, or assimilation in general, to the perversity of the Nazis diminishes your point and is wrong. And BTW, the some of the points you are tyring to make are rooted in a deontological ethic (i.e. a Kantian ethic)… Just FYI
9486034566 1 year ago
@9486034566 Why do you surprise that BGrossG relates you to Nazis? You and newyorkem etc. prefer to be linked to the Yebanim? You both are the same? It scare you more body holocaust than spiritual holocaust? That the same you both and creamlatkes (sorry I ment krumbagel) are doing. So BGrossG yeyasher kochacha and keep going calling them Nazim, may be they awake and make Teshuba.
OMI7228 1 year ago
@9486034566 By the way, tomorrow night in Chanukah, take yourself a picture with your Chanukiya, maybe your grandson will put it in his in Xmas tree.
OMI7228 1 year ago
@OMI7228 Why would one Jew ever say such a thing to another Jew? Why do Jews sometimes attack the Jewishness of other Jews? Why would one Jew compare another Jew to a Nazi? If a Jew does not conform to your rigid understanding of what a Jew is, must you always attack them? Jews against Jews...that, it seems to me, is the greater threat to Jewish continuity. Shame on you.
9486034566 1 year ago
@9486034566 Dear fellow Jew @9486034566, It seems your Teshuba has started, Boruch Hashem, so please tell to krumbagel, to newyorkem and to Natan Slifkin, Gil Student etc. to stop all this dangerous games, and lets go all together ( of course also with BGrossG) back to open the Guemara in Masejes Shabbat 22, 23 and study about Chanukah. About what you wrote Shame on you... Any Mochel.
OMI7228 1 year ago
@OMI7228 In the future, maybe you will realize that just because Jews have different opinions other than yours, it doesn't make their neshema any less Jewish (or deserving of being compared to Nazis). This is the very point this very clever video makes. You have proved krumbagel's points many times over in our debate. Now go learn Torah and try to see in it how our Jewish diversity has always been the source of our unity. Baruch Hashem.
9486034566 1 year ago 12
@9486034566 It's not so easy as you say, Baruch Hashem. I did not prove any of krumbagel points, the opposite. If he do not make Teshuba, I continue thinking like BGrossG. I went to learn Tora early morning today and found in Chagiga 9a in the Sefa of the Mishna Rabbi Shimon ben Yochay omer... now you go to learn, I think it concerns to you.
OMI7228 1 year ago
@OMI7228 You should reread both of our comments from the beginning, then think carefully about what we are discussing and the point this video is trying to make about Jewish dialectics Then tell me that you didn't prove my point.
9486034566 1 year ago
@9486034566 I think the "main" idea here is rather that Judaism laudably preserves a built in "self-checking system" where ideas adopted by many of it's followers, can be critiqued by others from "the inside", and rejected when necessary. This way illogical, antiquated, and even harmful racist inventions- such as the existent of the "jewish neshama" you referred to, can be reconsidered and thrown out with the rest of the garbage accumulated over the millennia.
shmuelnahum 1 year ago
@shmuelnahum I agree with most of what you said. However, there is nothing inherently racist about claiming a Jewish Neshema... A Jewish Neshema does not necessarily imply exclusion of another group.
Is one's identity always necessarily constructed in opposition to another? What about the ways YOU self identify? Please be more sensitive to this in others. I believe identity can be constructed in positive terms as well, otherwise all constructed identities would be racist.
9486034566 1 year ago
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shmuelnahum 1 year ago
@9486034566 I appreciate your response. I prepared a response to your points but I want to send to you as a message since it is more than alloted character count....
shmuelnahum 1 year ago
@shmuelnahum I would appreciate that...
9486034566 1 year ago
@shmuelnahum BTW, what is this all about where Jews try to delegitimize the Jewishness of other Jews? Your comment is just like the previous one - Jews calling other Jews Nazis? What is this? Is it reaction formation? Is it PDSD? Is it self hating? Do you or anyone else reading this have any insights into this? It is so sad to see this.
9486034566 1 year ago
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shmuelnahum 1 year ago
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shmuelnahum 1 year ago
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shmuelnahum 1 year ago
@9486034566 Go the past and LEARN. Around 2000 years ago A JEW decided to make fun of TorahSheVeAlPeh, but HE BELIEVED VERY MUCH in the TORAH (5 Book of Moses) so much a new religion was founded following him and based on what they called THE OLD TESTAMENT. BUT he didn't like Torah SheVealPeh they called Pharisees to the followers of the Torah SheaVeAlPeh.. (see next post)
BGrossG 1 year ago
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@BGrossG SERIOUSLY BGrossG, YOU HAVE GOT TO KNOCK THIS OFF! It is horribly offensive and takes away from your point. I am sympathetic with some of the points you are trying make, but equating other Jews, or assimilation in general, to the perversity of the Nazis diminishes your point and is wrong. And BTW, the some of the points you are tyring to make are rooted in a deontological ethic (i.e. a Kantian ethic)… Just FYI
9486034566 1 year ago
@newyorkempiricist Newyorkempiricist: don’t feel so connected with Kant, he didn’t like you (us) so much, Kant: ‘The Jews are by nature “sharp dealers” who are “bound together by superstition.” Their “immoral and vile” behavior in commerce shows that they “do not aspire to civic virtue,” for “the spirit of usury holds sway amongst them.” They are “a nation of swindlers” who benefit only “from deceiving their host’s culture.” ‘ Source: Weiss, John. 1996. Ideology of Death. Page 67.
BGrossG 1 year ago
Newyorkempiricist : You said you were once orthodox, in my case I was not born orthodox it was never an option where I lived, I didn’t even know what was to be “orthodox”. I went to University became a professor in Science, Math, Artificial Intelligence, Comp Science, worked for the Top High End Fortune Companies, they send me to Harvard, Babson, etc…. and after all that I decided to do my “intellectual” research about the Torah… and found the beauty of it, we all can do that
BGrossG 1 year ago
I also wonder, did Avraham have four mezuzot on his tent?
And did Avraham and Yitzchak also not eat gid hanasheh due to Yaakov's being struck?
4trahasis 1 year ago
The discussion continues on video entitled "yeshiva guy responds".
tomriddle0543 1 year ago
(con't from previous) effort, even to a "brilliant questioner" like you, to figure it out?
However, I suspect you are not really interested in an answer. But be aware, because making fun of Chazal and of Rav Elyashiv, and having others give you their thumbs up, will weigh a lot on one side of the scales when your day comes. Unless you want to make fund of that too...
dontailor1 1 year ago
Theoretically you have a valid question, but... do you think you are so "brilliant" (as Kohelet puts it)? Do you think all giants in knowledge that preceded you (and that will continue to be studied while you will be long forgotten) never thought of that question? Have you ever delved into the words of the Gemara, Rashi, Tosfos, Ran, Ritva, Rashba, Pnei Yehoshua, Rabbi Akiva Eiger, Rav Shlomo Kluger, Chofetz Chaim, Chida, Chazon Ish, just to name a few? If you have, doesn't it take a tremendous.
dontailor1 1 year ago
krumbagel: please do not take the comments of BGrossG to represent the attitude of all orthodox jews (BGrossG will accuse anyone who disagrees with him of being a nazi, and thus disrespects and debases the memories of the holocaust). your work is really great, well reasoned, and respectful of the tradition. keep up the great work!
9486034566 1 year ago
(Continuation from the Prev Post) And Mr. “newyorkempiricist”, don’t be so “innocent” when you mention the word “Midrashim”, he makes fun of the Gemara in Yoma 28B.
And if you want more go to Hilchos Tshuva 3:8 when the RAMBAM call Apikoros (with no cheleck in Olam Aba!) to those who goes against the Torah SheBealPe such as Tzadok and Baytos… Don’t wait a second more and DO TSHUVA. Believe me what you’re doing here is not pashut.
BGrossG 1 year ago
To: Mr. “newyorkempiricist”, what “krum”’s affiliation is, I don’t know but I can’t tell you I won’t trust my kids education to him (to be very polite). But what HE DID IS LIKE THE NAZIS DID, you like it or not.
You are so proud to be “Rationalist”, so use the logic!: I just showed that what the NAZIS and other people did attacking and distorting the Torah is what he’s doing. That’s black and white, don’t lie to yourself. (see next post)
BGrossG 1 year ago
@BGrossG You should be ashamed of yourself for calling other Jews Nazis. Shame on you!
9486034566 1 year ago
@9486034566 I repeat to you: what “krum”’s affiliation is, I don’t know but I can’t tell you I won’t trust my kids education to him (to be very polite). But what HE DID IS LIKE THE NAZIS DID, you like it or not.
By the way being a Jew does not give anyone green light to make fun our Torah...Our grandparents gave their life in the Holocaust and in the Inquisition and many more times for what you are now having some fun and “humour”=> "shame on you"
BGrossG 1 year ago
@BGrossG I would never make fun of the Torah! I love the Torah! Krum is not making fun of the Torah either. Krum is revealing its truth, and the truth of Hashem, and showing us that you don't have to disregard logic and reality to believe in Hashem. You on the other hand, debase and disrespect the memory of the Holocaust by comparing this to the Nazis. You should do Tshuva.
9486034566 1 year ago
I love this video!
staitman 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
check out my video - yeshiva guy responds
tomriddle0543 1 year ago
I just read R' Yair Hoffman's response to this video. He sees in it a leftist agenda to undermine the yeshivas. I - and any other rational person who actually went to yeshiva and has a beating heart - sees a frustrated yeshiva bochur with a bit too much common sense for his own good.
What a paranoid, sickly religious leadership we have today.
sshuck 1 year ago
Think that it is not nice to have a goy or a goya in law on your “Shabbes” (if you still keep it) table.
You are a Porets Gader Krum.
Do not be proud for more than 40,000 visits, but be worry for Ain Roa, Veozen Shomaat, vechol maasecha BaSefer Nichtabim.
May be you are on time to make teshuba.
Ask a real Rabbi about that, not to Natan.
A gute voch Krum.
OMI7228 1 year ago
@OMI7228 Mendelssohn was an Orthodox rabbi. He was a great philosopher and one of the Gedolim, something you will never be.
staitman 1 year ago
Bravo OMI7228!, "staitman" why you don't go and review a little bit of history you know how the "reform" movement started? ahhhh.... now I see the connection between "R"eform and "R"ational Judaism...
Mr "newyorkempiricist" How do you save "Judaism" by having your students and descendants being assimilate? Go to any of his "Centers" or "Temples" (if you can find anyone) and tell me how great is the attendance....
BGrossG 1 year ago
@BGrossG How wonderful it is that you are so willing to show your ignorance and bigotry in a public forum. As a Reform Rabbi I certainly know the history of Reform Judaism, which clearly you do not. You are an ignorant behamah, which is not particularly amazing.
staitman 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Krumbagel.
Talking in rationalist language, you are very wrong. And I won’t call you a kofer, I will call you short sighted, I will call you non rationalist. Remember Moshe Mendelson, most of his grandsons were Goyim.
Yes Krum Goyim, no rationalist Jews or Reform Jews, Goyim!
You, “rationalist Krum” are worst than the worst of the reformist. That movie is an attack not just to Judaism, it’s an attack to Torat Hashem, and Hashem is not Vatran. Don´t play danger games Krumbagel.
OMI7228 1 year ago
... “9486034566” You say “DISREPECTFUL”, and you mention the Holocaust!, our grandparents gave their life during the Holocaust for the same Torah you are now making fun of, remember R Elchonon Wasserman ZZ”L, and your friends make public fun of a GADOL HADOR of our generation and you talk about being direspectful!...
BGrossG 1 year ago
My recommendation to “9486034566” is go and take a course on “comprehensive reading” then you can re-read again my post and try to understand...
"Not the same category"?: This video “distorts” the Torah, the Nazis –yemach sheman- also did the same, go and learn some history did you hear about “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”??? you and your friends who produced this video don’t like a part of the Torah they didn’t like another part....
BGrossG 1 year ago
I am not quite sure why everyone here is applauding an individual for defeating himself in a debate. As an aside, some of the questions mentioned are still problematic even if you completely ignore the gemara that says the avos kept the entire torah. I believe even you would acknowledge that God gave Moshe the entire Torah, which occurred before much of what is mentioned there. So you have 2 basic options, disregard the Torah r'l or acknowledge some sense of ignorance.
atpadp1987 1 year ago
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I am not quite sure why everyone here is applauding an individual for defeating himself in a debate. As an aside, some of the questions mentioned are still problematic even if you completely ignore the gemara that says the avos kept the entire torah. I believe even YU self proclaimed intellectuals would acknowledge that God gave Moshe the entire Torah, which occurred before much of what is mentioned there. So you have 2 basic options, disregard the Torah or acknowledge some sense of ignorance.
atpadp1987 1 year ago
Shkeyach krumbagel! Huge LOL!
meirperez1826 1 year ago
This video only reveals IGNORANCE obviously the writer does not understand even basic Torah concepts, and DISTORT them to make fun of the Torah, in a similar way like the NAZIS -yemach sheman vezijram- did it in the past, the same video in a NEONAZI site will upset all of us, and here some people call it "brilliant". H” Yishmerenu.
I can't believe that a person that went to Yeshiva produced this, well unless he spent his time "texting" or doing some other "modern" activities in his"Yeshiva"
BGrossG 1 year ago
@BGrossG you mean "modern" activities like posting comments like yours on youtube? your comments are disrespectful. they debase the memory of the Holocaust by comparing anyone who disagrees with you to a nazi. this is clearly not in that same category.
9486034566 1 year ago 4
@BGrossG Godwin's Law.
trekkieyk 1 year ago
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9486034566 1 year ago
Please see my response, entitled yeshiva guy responds.
tomriddle0543 1 year ago
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tomriddle0543 1 year ago
Does Yeshiva Guy hold that 'Eisav was a Tzaddik who kept the entire Torah including the DeRabanan that everyone must wash before eating bread (as a Zecher to remind us all that Kohanim can't eat Terumah while they are Temeim)?
ShagMeElmo 1 year ago
Youtube was created primarily for the important activities of Bitul Torah and Pritzus. It's a blunt instrument for subtle analysis of difficult Talmud passages and a critique of traditional understandings.
YICHMICH 1 year ago
Rama says that this only refers to Avraham not the other avot.
The Ramban says that they only kept the mitzvot in Israel.
The Mishne Lemelech explains that Yakov converted Rachel and Leah so they were not legally sisters and so he was allowed to marry them.
The Maharal says they only kept positive not negative mitzvot.
A lot of smart people tried and continued to try to figuring out what that gemara is talking about.
BTW I did go to YU. Thanks for the shoutout.
YICHMICH 1 year ago
Krumbagel,
The video is a cute satire of closed minded yeshivish dopes but the matter is a bit troublesome for people who respect the gemara.
In Yoma28b says in the name of Rava that Avraham " even kept eruv tavshilin." Rashi points out it is a decree that would only be invented in the future.
What did Rava mean and why did he say it?
YICHMICH 1 year ago
Everyone wants to know: Did you go to YU?
ELIEZERE1 1 year ago
Dear krumbagel,
I'll admit I laughed. You are a brilliant satirist.
However, it's not a good idea to make jokes about the Torah, even if your intentions are good, as I believe they are. These jokes will eventually lead to bad if you keep it up.
I would advise you to erase this video and your other video on the Slifkin debate.
cfeinst 1 year ago
Do you have the text?
ydmeyer 1 year ago
This is disgusting, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Ignorance, mixed with humour.So sadd.
As if this is a practical logical conversation, and casually making the torah seem as if is a joke, through the absurd replies he gives.
"No crocs, and he wore converse"?
"Did they go to YU they must not be part of our mesorah"?
Forget about the actual conversation, there are so many ignorant points i"m not gnna begin... If you want to really get a glimpse, go to yeshiva with a bit of kabolas ol...
piamentas 1 year ago
this is why I dont believe in midrashim
patriatich 1 year ago
Also...
1) Isn't is awesome that it is the cartoon GIRL provokes the discussion with the yeshiva bochur and intelligently debates him (she must have learned these gemaras from photocopies).
2) Isn't this made even more ludicrous by the robotic, computerized voices...
librariegrrl 1 year ago
To see more debate on this vid, go to Voz Iz Naies and use the search box in the upper right corner (YouTube comments don't allow links)
Con - search for: YouTube Clip avos
Pro - search for: YouTube discontents
Of course, I totally love this video and agree with Yitzchzok Adlerstein's perspective. Then again, I went to YU (Stern, that is...)
librariegrrl 1 year ago
36,648 views, can't all be orthodox jews. Those of you who aren't please understand, this is no exaggeration, there are people who talk EXACTLY like this.
therealsylvos 1 year ago
Rav Elyshuv paskened that crocks are shoes for yom kipper,
but he is a Gra'nik and the Gra is choshesh for the Rambam who holds all shoes are assur on Yom kipper not just leather (Mideorysa). I doubt that he'd feel that way about tish abov
steveedelstein 1 year ago
"Did Yaakov wear crocks on Tisha B'Av? No, Rav Elyashiv says crocks are too comfortable. He wore Converse."
Hahahahahah!!! GREAT line!
(FYI - for those of you too young to remember - in the olden days before crocks, and before "Keds", everyone wore Converse on Tisha B'Av and Yom Kippur.)
SayCheeeeese 1 year ago
I am not quite sure why everyone here is applauding an individual for defeating himself in a debate. As an aside, some of the questions mentioned are still problematic even if you completely ignore the gemara that says the avos kept the entire torah. I believe even YU self proclaimed intellectuals would acknowledge that God gave Moshe the entire Torah, which occurred before much of what is mentioned there. So you have 2 basic options, disregard the Torah or acknowledge some sense of ignorance.
atpadp1987 1 year ago
@atpadp1987 @atpadp1987 No, you interpret the gemara metaphorically as the Rambam says to (as referring to the "spirit" or principles behind those laws) . And don't most proclaim the Torah text was given throughout the 40 years- not in one spurt- with the last part about Moshe dying being the only challenge. The Talmud offers 2 creative ways to deal with those last 8 or so verses.
shmuelnahum 1 year ago
Gr8;) and when it says yakkov kept the whole Torah it means just in Israel and he marry 2 sisters out side of Israel so um ya
18Shmuel 1 year ago
i love it, especially the end line:-)
JBB8585 1 year ago
Yashar Koach!
Ziegler2006 1 year ago
"OK, let's make believe none of these problems exist, and in fact Yaacov, with the help of his time-space bending machine, kept all of the commandments in the Torah."
"I'm glad you came around."
LOL
undertehlaw 1 year ago 8
Beautiful. Vicious.
tellner 1 year ago
did eisav make brachos or wash his hands before eating bread.
shortyoni 1 year ago
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shortyoni 1 year ago
the torah commands us not to marry 2 sisters- did yaakov keep that commandment? um, no....
sophie123486 1 year ago 2
Perfect! Well done, brilliant!
RabbiJason 1 year ago
This is appallingly disrespectful to Chazal. There is a difference between asking a question and ridiculing Chazal. The piece is also conveniently presumptuous about the meaning of that particular idea.
shmengs 1 year ago 2
@shmengs That's the point. He's trying to show how some people distort what chazal said and twist it into the most unbelievable thing by choosing the wildest and most irrational interpretation of what chazal actually said and distorting the idea they presented. The brown bear plays that role in this video. It is the brown bear and his ilk who make a joke of chazal, just as the Rambam explains about fools interpreting midrashim in his intro to perek chelek.
KWRBT 1 year ago 2
Did Yaakov wear Crocs on Tisha B'Av? LOL, I love it!
elshpen 1 year ago 2
lol this video is full of win
NoobLper 1 year ago
lol did they all go to YU?
okokok32 1 year ago
This is totally awesome. Favoriting!
TheMessianicDrew 1 year ago
As hilarious as this video is, I prefer the yeshiva guy's vort in this video over some of the claptrap being promoted in the comments by the "tikkun olam" guy who keeps trying to sell us a bill of goods about his beloved "palestine" fantasies.
KWRBT 1 year ago
@KWRBT even this teddy bear yeshiva guy is smarter than the tikun olam spammer.
KWRBT 1 year ago
@KWRBT What is so crazy about what the Tikkun Olam guy is saying? Makes a lot of sense to me.
9486034566 1 year ago
@9486034566 You his alternate account? Lol.
KWRBT 1 year ago
@KWRBT what does that even mean?
9486034566 1 year ago
@KWRBT Yep. the "tikkun olam" guy fails to realize that THERE NEVER WAS A PALESTINE!
ert000 7 months ago
raanan u should go look up the word "apologetics"
dpanzer 1 year ago 2
@dpanzer As soon as you look up "karaite." Since you busy junking commentators & their traditions, don't forget that to people like you "eye for an eye" is literal just like that Shi''ite doctor in Pakistan who burned out a fellow Muslim's eye in fulfillment of your interpretation of the Torah "unencumbered" by the commentators. The only consequence I see is people jettisoning, G-d forbid, the whole Torah because of your unnecessary zilzul of meforashim, resulting in less morality.
raanan111 1 year ago
The Avoth keep the ESSENCE of the 4 species (unity of ALL of Jewry) , the essence of 'Amaleq (casting doubt on the Divine) & these essences existed even before the Exodus, but were only manifested in physical form AFTER the Exodus. Ya'aqov's version of the Torah joined the letters at different points & were OPEN until they actually took place. H prevent Ya'aqov from knowing about Yosef & brothers which to Ya'aqov appeared as mashiach b Yosef vs. mashiach b Dawidh (Rachel vs. Leah's sons).
raanan111 1 year ago
This is brilliant! Thank you for some great comic relief...and those who can' take it..well perhaps a little more kavanah.
solyesh 1 year ago
@krumbagel: Good work so far! Keep it up. But you missed the biggest one: Ya'akov married a woman and her sister! That's problematic even according to liberal interpretations of "Kol HaTorah Kula." To resolve that, one has to say the laws of morality changed, that they apply differently to different people, or are arbitrary.
netwebber 1 year ago 4
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AWESOME JOB!!! Great creativity I want more.
Also you guys need to study some Maharal and or Zohar it will make the questions you ask seem simple and raise questions which will turn you into a sociopath who rapes little boys and uses their blood to write comments on youtube.
Free5rhyme 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
AWESOME JOB!!! Great creativity I want more.
Also you guys need to study some Maharal and or Zohar it will make the questions you ask seem simple and raise questions which will turn you into a sociopath how rapes little boys and uses their blood to write comments on youtube.
Free5rhyme 1 year ago 2
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TheDovieb 1 year ago
This is only "controversial" because too may people are unaware that over 800 years ago the Rishonim discounted the possibility that the Patriarchs kept all the commandments
TheDovieb 1 year ago 2
Excellent vid
TheSkeptitcherRebbe 1 year ago 2
This is called, "setting up a straw man and then knocking him down." The sad part is the time wasted making this vid and the time wasted watching it.
virtualrabbi 1 year ago
Yichmich, that's not what yeshiva guy (or his ilk) is saying. There's a difference between saying that the Avos kept "Torah" in some sense of the word and saying that followed the psakim of the mishna brura.
krumbagel 1 year ago
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I am not quite sure why everyone here is applauding an individual for defeating himself in a debate. As an aside, some of the questions mentioned are still problematic even if you completely ignore the gemara that says the avos kept the entire torah. I believe even YU self proclaimed intellectuals would acknowledge that God gave Moshe the entire Torah, which occurred before much of what is mentioned there. So you have 2 basic options, disregard the Torah or acknowledge some sense of ignorance.
atpadp1987 1 year ago
@krumbagel, Mishanah brurah?! Ya'aqov didn't wear crox on "tishah b'av" because r. alyashuv's chumrah, c'mon. It's gr8, hazzak ubarukh!
cupidchussid 1 year ago
@OldLeftie the point is that they kept the will of God but in a manner that is different from ours. Cy Young could not win the Cy Young award but that does not mean he was not a great ballplayer. The average person has trouble putting things into historical context which is why the medrashim maintain that Yaakov was a tzadik in a manner we are used to.
YICHMICH 1 year ago
Can anyone name ONE rishon who learns the Mishna at the end of Kiddushin to NOT be literal?
jschping 1 year ago
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@jschping you asked if I can name even one Rishon who didn't literally accept the last mishna in Kidushin. In fact, I can name four: Ramban, Rashbam, Chizkuni, and Radak. See them all on Gen 26:5.
TheDovieb 1 year ago 2
@TheDovieb Someone's going around flagging insighful comments (like Dovieb's) as spam (curiously, the flagged comments all seem to be on one side of the debate).
Bbr36 1 year ago
According to the Zohar, Yaakov kept all the mitzvot but in a different manner, for example Yaakov kept the mitzva of tfillin by making the stripes on the sticks. ( see the minchas asher on parshas vayishlach)
YICHMICH 1 year ago
@YICHMICH and he kept the prohibition against marrying two sisters by marrying two sisters?
OldLeftie 1 year ago 3
Hilarious!
velveteenrabbi 1 year ago
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A PRAYER FOR PALESTINE FROM A JEW: Let us help them to create something extraordinary,just as we have for ourselves-it is in our best interest to do so.Let us help them to build a home they will love with all their hearts, as we love Israel!Wouldn’t we both be foolish to risk damaging something so precious?We are both great nations…let us never forget this.Let us nurture peace with our enemies, and recognize that they are a mirror…reflecting light unto the nations.
tikkunolam613 1 year ago
@tikkunolam613
A. Besides absurdity, what does your comments have to do with this video.
B. We have already given them 6 opportunities, yes 6 since 1947 to create a country and they have said no, with violence their only repertoire. Therefore, they don't want a two state solution but our annihilation and a one state solution on our ashes.
xoxogavigirl 1 year ago
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But why did Ya’ akov give Esav bread with his lentil stew? Because he knew it was in his best interest to do so…that it was better for both of them if Esav did not feel cheated of his birthright. We find ourselves at a historic crossroads, where a viable long term peace with the Palestinians is possible… (continued below)
tikkunolam613 1 year ago
@xoxogavigirl (continued)…If we do not act wisely, the long term security of Israel is in jeopardy. It is in the strategic interest of Israel to support a stable, economically prosperous, democratically vibrant Palestinian state. In order to do this, we must give the Palestinians more than just a bowl of lentil stew.
tikkunolam613 1 year ago
@tikkunolam613 Acting wisely is waiting for a green light to cross at a cross walk. Acting with clear depravity for survival and abandon is crossing at the middle of the street with cars flying at you (you know the scene you see in many action movies where they are miraculously unhurt). You are calling for the second not that first. I believe in a two state solution of the US-Canada Border initiative type. Yet the Arabs don't want 2 states, democratically vibrant, or stability. Its been proven.
xoxogavigirl 1 year ago
@tikkunolam613 Ad for your pathetic tie to lentil stew to address my A. 1. They are the Christians that come from Aisav not bnei Yishmael. 2. If Israel only had 10% in 1947 of the funds and global support these Arab nomads have received in financing Israel would have been an economic giant within 10 years of its reestablishment and definitely have prevented the whole financial collapse of the Israeli currency in the early - mid 80s.
The Arabs haven't only gotten the stew but the whole kitchen
xoxogavigirl 1 year ago
@tikkunolam613 You're an idiot.
NegativeClock 1 year ago
hilarious
juniorchink 1 year ago
Awesome!
simonvlevin 1 year ago
SHABBAT SHALOM HOLY JEWS!!!!!!!!
pshapiro1029 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Who ever made this is a moron because it is well known that every Jew cant keep all 613 commandments its just not possible but if you do as many as are within your power to do then its as if your doing all 613.
bergos4 1 year ago
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@bergos4:
A- Video never stated all Jews must keep 613 - you did
B- Video DOES question the ability of ANYONE to obey a takana or psak halacha that's not yet been made
C- Your statement "if you do as many as are within your power to do then its as if your doing all 613." is questionable, at best. If you do a mitzvah, you did that m. If you didn't do it, you didn't do it. Period. I'm not a Kohen or a King, my doing other m's isn't "as if" I also did their m's.
D- Moron? Insults NOT the Torah way
TheEliSko 1 year ago 3
@TheEliSko
About C, please read the Ye'hee Ra'tzoan before many of our mitzvote and you will notice that the phrase there reads (loosely translating) "the mitzvah I am about to do should be as if I completed all 613 mitzvote." Once such example is with Sukkah. Even tzizit, depending on your opinion, is either a reminder of all 613 mitzvote or doing this mitzvah is as if you are doing these mitzvote. Some food for thought.
Otherwise, agree with all your other points.
xoxogavigirl 1 year ago
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Oh my - this gave me an orgasm.
DeathtoPapaSmurf1 1 year ago 2
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jesuisunique1 1 year ago
Brilliant!!!
Kohelet 1 year ago 3
Only one dislike..i guess they are all in the Beis Hamidrash and are not mevatel torah for Youtube :)
myronjoshua 1 year ago 6
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TheRealEmet 1 year ago
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OldLeftie 1 year ago
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TheRealEmet 1 year ago