How to Temperature Surf on the Rancilio Silvia

[mrhanky5555]

Unrelated but... I just got my Silvia from u guys and the right side of the pf spout always pours less than the left side. Is it cause of my horrible tamping skills?!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@mrhanky5555 Sounds like you are favoring your left side ... you could test this by just pulling a shot without coffee and if the water is coming out evenly on both sides, it's your tamp - Kat

[TheBauermv]

How would temperature surfing be applied if you're making a latte and having to steam milk first?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@TheBauermv You bring the machine up to steam temp, steam, flush the steam/water and bring it back down to brew temp, then brew - Kat

[alexmbg1]

Is it normal to have water leaking around the portafilter while brewing, as it happened during this video? Not related to temp. surfing but it caught my attention as I saw this concern in a couple Silvia reviews before.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@alexmbg1 We shot this video over 2 years ago so I can't recall what was up but it's generally the case when a) the brew head gasket needs to be changed or cleaned or b) overdosing, etc. I am going to assume it was the former on this but I don't really know for sure. You don't want to see leaking and if you do, these are the first places to look to resolve. - Kat

[ethemoon]

well she just showed me a few things i did not know about this machine and i have had mine for 5 yrs!!! thank you!!!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@ethemoon Always great to hear! - Kat

[thebehaviorist]

hi kat, do you have any issues with the Silvia (i have a brand new one) dripping water from the steam wand after steaming milk? if i tighten it, the dripping stops, but i never seem to tighten it enough off the bat. thanks!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@thebehaviorist Yeah, ours always drips a little bit, so we keep the wand over the drip tray when we turn it on in the morning. Once it builds up enough heat it seems to be better, but out of the gate it's always a little dribbler :) - Kat

[mark2500]

So how do you temprature surf on a machine without a water dispenser? Do you just run it through the brewhead?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@mark2500 Yes, you could just pull water through the brew head; but not all machines need to be temp surfed, only if they have bi metal thermostats and a boiler in play - Kat

[thebehaviorist]

Awesome, thanks for the video. During the shot, I noticed you had some leakage around the PF - some drops of water dripping down the side. I just got a Silvia and have had this happen sometimes with my shots, too. Any idea what the cause of this is?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@thebehaviorist If it's new you could be seeing either overfilling of the portafilter or it's not getting a great seal. As the machine ages, you'll also start to see this when the gasket needs to be changed; in our case I believe it was the latter (but this was filmed 2 years ago so I can't be totally certain). - Kat

[thebehaviorist]

@SeattleCoffeeGear Thanks for this. In a new machine, what are the factors involved in getting a good seal - amount of coffee in PF, how tight the PF's been locked into place, all of the above?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@thebehaviorist All of the above, really; mostly it will be about overdosing that will inhibit your ability to lock the PF in place and then you'll have seal issues. - Kat

[thebehaviorist]

@SeattleCoffeeGear What might cause the portafilter to not get a great seal with a new machine?

[jonathanhenyolson]

hhaahaha some typically beautiful seattle weather i see

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@jonathanhenyolson Don't rub it in! :p - Kat :)

[shesdoinit]

After you temperature surf and brew your espresso, should you to let out more water water so that the boiler fills again before turning off the machine (to prevent burning up the boiler)? Or will there still be enough water in the boiler after the brew?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@shesdoinit You don't need to do this; water will be replaced one for one (you will hear the pump working during extraction, not steaming) so if you follow this process, you'll be set. - Kat

[joeldamianicigan]

Is there such a thing as temperature surfing on Hx machines?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@joeldamianicigan Nope, completely different technologies. All you need to do is a flush every so often on the Hx machines; their temp is not managed in the same way as the Silvia's. - Kat

[JOINED2L84GOODNAME]

may be a stupid question, but does one have to purchase the rocky with the silvia or is it just recommended?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@JOINED2L84GOODNAME No, you do need to get a good grinder that will go fine enough and is consistent enough for the Silvia, however -- you can't use pre-ground coffee with it. - Kat

[yousteub]

In regard to the spillover during the shot, could it be that you're not bringing the handle far enought to the right to line up with the red dot on the grouphead to create a tight enough seal? Is that what the red dot is there for? Do you even need to do that on the sylvia?

Great vids, you guys are very helpful. Thanks!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@yousteub We bring it over as tight as it will get; sometimes the gasket's seal means that the pf goes to the red dot, sometimes beyond. We shot this video a loooooong time ago so all I can assume is that the machine we used needed to have its gasket changed. - Kat

[ryanland1]

So just wanted to tell you or confess (I suppose it is ash wednesday) that I was fully set on ordering a silvia and a MD40 from you guys. I wrote an email to your sales staff to ask them if they thought the MD40 was a substantial upgrade and worth the price differance from the Rocky. They came back with really no "real" info on the MD40 and told me that a E61 would be much better. Your E61's were out of my range so I went with a Expobar Pulser E61 clone from WLL and now I feel dirty.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@ryanland1 I'm sorry they couldn't give you more info on the MD40; for home use, I don't think it'd merit the price (the upgrades have more to do with quickly grinding in repetition in a commercial environment and less to do with the grind quality, in my experience). Good luck with your Expobar! :) - Kat

[csgyuricza]

Hi Kat, I noticed on this video that during brewing there quite a lot of water/coffee leaking from outside the head and that ends up dripping into the cups. I've seen this happen before at my friends house on his Rancilio. Why is this happening and how to fix it? Thanks!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@csgyuricza I can't be positive what was going on with the machine as we filmed this over a year ago, but this is most often a sign that the brew head gasket needs to be changed -- or that the portafilter was over-filled. - Kat

[Back2Brent]

@SeattleCoffeeGear

I just started using my Rancilio again and have noticed that I will get some water streaming out of the left side of the brew head occasionally when I do not have the portafilter in, and that sometimes I seem to get water coming around and dripping between the channels of the portafilter when I am pulling a shot. Are you saying this could mean I need a new head gasket? What do those run for this machine?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@Back2Brent Yes, that is most likely the case -- gaskets should probably be changed about every 12 - 18 months to ensure a great seal, so if you haven't replaced it before and had the machine for sometime, that is definitely worth doing now. They cost about $5. - Kat

[Back2Brent]

@SeattleCoffeeGear Thanks. Do you guys carry the gaskets? I am about to place an order and wanted to add that in if you did. Thanks!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@Back2Brent Yep, they are on the site. I can't post a link, but if you search for 'gasket' you'll see 'Rancilio Silvia Replacement Brew Head Gasket 58mm'. - Kat

[CoffeeDre]

hi there, thanks for this very helpful video.

however, i am a bit confused, as i came across another video that suggests that the temperature is still too high after 30 seconds, even if one flushes again. do you have an explanation for this? the youtube-video is called "Rancilio Silvia, PID off, temperature surfing, cooling flush"

thank you.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@CoffeeDre Every machine is going to be a bit different. This is where we measured our demo version to be, but everyone should use an instant read thermometer to measure the water coming out of the brew head at different increments of time. That will be the best way to see where your machine is at in its cycle once you've kicked the element on and heated it back up, then let it rest for a bit. Check out our video on bi-metal thermostats for info on why this isn't a precise science. - Kat

[sodtheboss]

thanks a lot girls! ;)your videos are very helpful!

I'm a new "barista",but I need pratice with my Silvia,I have it from a month and I can't do a good coffee!

I would like to ask, what the good size to grind with a Rocky? (I know, is depending the coffee I have, but I mean, about what is the good size)

and also, I use the plastic tamper that is with the Silvia, I think that a good tamper is very important for the good coffee, and the plastic one is not that! can U suggest a good tamper?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@sodtheboss You want it to be a fine powder, but there is no specific recommendation and since every grinder/coffee is going to be different, you'll have to determine it by timing the shot/dialing it in, etc. As far as tampers are concerned, look for one with a nice weight to it -- a stainless steel version would be good. We like the Rattleware tampers, if you can get those in your area they are a good option. - Kat

[lehmann49]

I just purchase a Rancilio Silvia and I have a question. Should the power be always on so the temperature is always up or not? Thanks for your response.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@lehmann49 Doesn't always need to be on; I would say if you are going to pull shots throughout the day, leave it on and then you will need to temperature surf when you go to make your coffee. But if you're just doing drinks in the morning and then leaving it alone, I would turn it off. - Kat

[tonyyuille]

im getting grinds in my cup which suggests the grind is too fine if i move it up it flows too quickly any suggestions thanks

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@tonyyuille I would move the grind up and tamp harder ... see how that goes. - Kat

[infamousmonster]

Sorry, I'm completely new to Rancilio Silvia, but I just ordered mine.

My question is, "What happens if you wait more than 30 seconds after the light goes out?"

Seems like without the PID, there's a lot of guessing involved. I don't understand why the Silvia doesn't come with the PID standard... it seems so essential. The cost is ridiculous enough for a chunk of steel and minimal engineering.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@infamousmonster PID = more expensive machine, that's why. There are many improvements you could make to this machine that would basically just make it a more expensive machine at the end of the day. So, sadly, it is what it is. If you wait more than 30 seconds, your temp will have gone down perhaps lower than you want for brewing, then you'd need to kick on the thermostat again with cool water/etc. - Kat

[maxxsee]

Thats how you roll :D lol

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@maxxsee that *is* how she rolls! ;) - Kat

[maxxsee]

just what I was looking for, will make one on these now (a cappuccino)

Thanks!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@maxxsee awesome - hope you enjoyed it :) - Kat

[nznige]

im wondering about the spillover around the seal, you can see it dripping off the portafilter in this video

I get this one mine as well (only had it two weeks), at first I thought the seals were had it and I was about to replace them today but I see that yours is actually doing it as well

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@nznige I know we see this when either the portafilter is a little too full or there are grounds around the rim and it doesn't seal properly. This machine also gets a lot of demonstration use so it could be that the seals need changing or cleaning. Since this video was made about a year ago, I can't recall what the cause was at the time - sorry :( - Kat

[markpianoman]

Gail/Kat, when I do temperature surfing, and measure the temperature of the water coming out of the brew head, I'm getting temps of about 168 degrees F. Shouldn't the temp ideally be more like 204 degrees? My machine is only one year old and I only make one cup of latte per day, and I have decalcified the machine about a month ago. Is the Rancilio just no capable of coming up to the 204 degrees? I wish I had bought the "evolutione" - of course, considerably more expensive.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@markpianoman How are you measuring the temp? Unless you're using a laser instant read thermometer, it's tough to be absolutely certain of the temp as the water is coming out of the brew head. If you are using that type of thermometer and you're getting this temp, it may need to be looked at by a tech. If it's under warranty, contact your retailer for support -- it should definitely be coming out hotter than 168. - Kat

[mywytefeet]

Is this 'reverse temperature surfing'? Also, I have always wondered, how do you know how long to keep the brew button on? Is it a combination of amount of espresso and how long it takes? Would a good shot be considered 1.25oz in 25 seconds or something like that? That way if it's the same amount of espresso but came out fast (like 10 seconds) you can see the problem and adjust your tamp or grind etc. Am I thinking about this correctly? Maybe I should just fly out and visit your shop! =)

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@mywytefeet Not sure what you mean by 'reverse temperature surfing.' As far as timing the shot; you want a 2 oz. shot to extract within 20 - 30 seconds (length is kind of personal preference) and then you calibrate your grind and tamp to achieve that. If it's coming out too fast = grind too coarse and/or tamp too soft; coming out too slow = grind too fine and/or tamp too hard. - Kat

[cuquis77]

Hi Kat & Gail,,, I think my Rancilio Silvia is not heathing enough, and since some days ago its running water to fast at the begining of the extraction and then got slow, at the end the extraction amount and time is ok (2 oz 27 sec for a double shot) but just little pale crema....,is there a guide to test that everything is working fine? (pressure, temperature, etc)

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@cuquis77 Not really; these machines usually don't degrade like this -- I would check with your retailer and see if it needs warranty attention. - Kat

[pangathan]

I just got a Rancilio Silvia and I filmed one of my first shots (check my YT profile for video). I'm looking for comments/suggestions. Thanks!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

Hey there - I watched and gave you my feedback there. Feel free to msg me if you want to discuss further. Enjoy the machine! :) - Kat

[mikeyscots1]

@SeattleCoffeeGear Very helpful video and goes some way to answering questions I had! I have one for you...how would you carry out all the above..and microfoam some milk as well? I seem to get myself into a bit of a mess when I try to do it all at once. Any advice appreciated!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

Well, you'd steam and then brew, and you'd need to keep working the milk in the pitcher while temperature surfing so that you keep the milk/foam incorporated...otherwise it will separate. - Kat

[solidorange716]

Hi! I have a question about this. Once the boiler has reached the "high end" of its heating cycle, wouldn't that put the water temperature in the boiler higher than it should be for brewing? Wouldn't a quick flush be necessary to bring the water temp back down a little, at least somewhat closer to the temperature recommended for brewing?

Thanks for all your helpful videos!

[ronnysizematters]

If you deliberately flush you will hardly get a constant result.

The idea of temperature surfing is to have a constant value you can work with.

You'll have to use a PID to find out exactly or try it out and just trust people like Gail or anybody else with their advise whatever it is.

Gail says about 30 secs after the light goes off the water has ideal temperature for brewing is reached, she says 204° (sounds good to me)which is actually then below the top temperature. How much? Who knows.

[ronnysizematters]

I forgot to mention about the Rancilio Silivia, there are 2 versions of the Silvia.

One version (some 2008 and most perhaps all of the older ones) use a thermostat that has a top end temp of 230°F. So if you have that one you of course have to make a flush before you brew the coffee! You do that by flushing without portafilter as long as the water comes out boiling (it'll be fizzling). When it stops boiling you can start right away or see what happens if you wait 30secs and then brew :).

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

When the light has turned off to indicate it is at brew temp, you'd be within range for the brewing -- the best you can do without a PID is by an instant read thermometer and gauge how the temperatures change within 10, 20, 30 seconds, etc., and then you'll know, for your machine, the ideal time for the brew temp you desire. - Kat

[pangathan]

I also wanted to say your videos are really appreciated. Very simple and entertaining to watch.

I just ordered a Rancilio Silvia v3 and Rocky grinder after 5 years of a very low end Krups machine. I can't wait!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

Yay! You're going to love your Silvia. Let us know if you have any questions or need any help as you get started. :) - Kat

[spaniardmale77]

Gail is a pretty Milf. I'mg going to get me a Rancilio Silvia soon. It seems to be the best expresso machine for a good and not crazy dumbass price. Good videos.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

Ha! I will let Gail know what you think :) Yes, the Silvia is probably the best you'll get in that price range and the issues it has aren't solved until you pay a lot more for a heat exchanger or double boiler. Let me know if you have any questions/need any assistance while you're researching your machine. Thanks for watching! - Kat

[pcwaust]

You girls are great, I have just picked up a Silvia yesterday and have been watching your videos for the last couple of days.

Would have come to see you but am in Australia.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

That's no excuse! ;) Hope you have fun with your Silvia. Feel free to let us know if you have any questions! - Kat

[TheLeftHand77]

All the nitpicking —silly.

She got her point across effectively and informed people that may otherwise not what temp surfing is. She was not displaying how to pull the perfect shot.

[bulenterdem1977]

too bad, she didn't heat the portafilter!

[luongdung]

So do you still need to leave the machine on for 15 to 20 minutes before brewing if you do this?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

This is only necessary if the machine has been sitting on for awhile and you're not sure where it's at in its temperature cycle. When you turn the machine on first thing, it will heat to the right temperature, so you don't need to surf on the first shot of the day.

[SBPStudio]

Surprised Gail did not notice the leaky gasket in that Brew group. Either that or she did not lock in her PF tight enough

[bulenterdem1977]

it is clearly seen that she didn't lock the portafilter tightly. too bad, she locked it too loosely.

[ericvos1]

Fantastic explanation for us newbies. Quick, simple. Gail at Seattle knows her stuff. Thanks much.