Straw Man and Jehovah's Witnesses

[sam888ization]

@propagandatechniques ... do you spend your time bashing JW? Because that is so sad ... you will never be able to move on if you keep coming like this!

You are the one who need to be deprogrammed from your crazy head ... what did they do to you? You yourself is like a puppet ... and slave of your obsession with the Watchtower Society until you die...

You can only look outside their organization and keep talking ... if you really dislike them ... then stay away! Is that difficult for you?

[sam888ization]

I think you are delusional ... you want to deprogrammed me? How can you deprogrammed when I am not a witness! I knew many JW for many years and they are nit like what you are talking about.

I just don't understand why you are bashing them. What really is your problem? Have you been kicked out from their organization because you are sinner? What did you do? Are you a fornicator? drunkard? gambler and cheater? Lover of prostitutes? Wife beater? Are you one of those?

[propagandatechniques]

@sam888ization I have no idea who you are or what you are talking about. I have to assume you are someone I blocked in the past for name-calling, or some other childish actions.

[thepixieful]

questions most would never even ASK. oddly constructed titles, asking would you or do you...lately I noted this, read it out loud, instead of quietly, and sad WTF of course I would never even ask this question in the first place.

[R0ckMusicL0v3r]

Gah, I was going to post up another point, but if you're too dumb to figure out the point, then you deserve to be a JW.

[R0ckMusicL0v3r]

"Worry about Communists? Why don't you sell out and become a wage slave and let yourself become a tool of the rich instead of spreading these lies about us! Meanwhile, commies will work towards a more fair solution! I am not a communist, but these commies are good people."

[R0ckMusicL0v3r]

"You have nothing better to do than to push your pathetic race into the glory of the rest of humankind. I am not a racist, but you should go and let the Jew controlled media push you around. I am not a racist, but the white race has more class than your pathetic Zionist ass" (Cont)

[guerrdenn12]

You will die in you sickness you loser have some dignity and go repent for your wickedness why you was kicked out. This is what you will do for rest of your sorry existance until you die.

[propagandatechniques]

@guerrdenn12 Lol! What you mean is you'll be a Watchtower puppet until you die.

[wanitek]

@guerrdenn12 cowards... you all just bitch and whine when u face a beating... think that you are supporting the truth just because people are opposing the crap that WTS is feeding you feeble mindless sheep.

[thepixieful]

great comments brofun, I like your cheerfulness. it has made for a happy week. TheMrDeist fun post but you know what cult is just a word. it gets debated and thrown around at the witness this or that. is fill in the blank whatever a cult. just a word. Groups, religions, are people. I like this site and we should be good christians. People doing the work. have fun.

[propagandatechniques]

@thepixieful "Infanticide" is just a word too. What's your point? Does this somehow nullify the fact the Watchtower Society has qualifiers in place that prevent their members from escaping without losing their families and friends? You somehow have devised a way to simply sweep this fact under the rug of your mind by choosing a thought terminating cliche - "cult is just a word"?

[thepixieful]

@propagandatechniques

just to get people to think, you already think and write it well and I agree with you, I just see that word thrown around, when the point might be on words like freedom, education. three times a week is a lot of time that could be in a classroom getting job skills. instead I see alot of folks argue with each other on what to call the jailhouse. be well. your paragraphs are good. ever read about Plato and the cave? I am sure you have. Have fun.

[TheMrDeist]

I guess Christianity is a cult. You either accept Jesus as your savior or suffer eternal torture (although any evidence of hell or Jesus being God is null and void). You must also sexual repress yourself and be ashamed of sexual desires (can't even think about a woman in a sexual way or you are damned). In fact, in Christianity, just your thoughts are evil and worthy of damnation. So, you must accept Christ as savior because you can do no good what so ever. What a non-controlling religion! ;)

[propagandatechniques]

@TheMrDeist The difference between a cult and a destructive cult is that a destructive cult has the power to ruin families and friendships of any who are noncompliant with the cult handlers' desires.

[TheMrDeist]

@propagandatechniques You just described Christianity again. I seen families destroyed because a child leaves the faith. Parents are in fear that their children will burn in hell. I also seen families of the Christian faith disown their child because that child happens to be homosexual. So, I guess Christianity now would be considered a destructive cult by this definition. Thanks for pointing out my error. ;)

[EDEIV]

I remember this when I was studying the knowledge book. The book would ask a question at the end of the paragraph. It would then have the answer listed in the paragraph which was not the answer I would give. I pointed this out several times to my instructor. "The answer is not in the paragraph. It says this, but that is not the answer." I wish I could cite a few examples. I guess my not being able to give examples would mean I have not read the book. Wouldn't you agree? ;)

[brofun]

@EDEIV Or, it simply means that you choose to not believe what is truth. WE all have the right to reject whatever we want. jehovah does not twist your arm. The books are educational..intended to educate. You may have a different viewoint or oppinion..but, the point is..who is correct..and THAT is the most important point. I believe JWs are the true religion..otherwise I would not be one. I know they aren't perfect..but, Jesus didn't say his disciples, or the f&d slave would be perfect!

[propagandatechniques]

@brofun "jehovah does not twist your arm."

No, but the Watchtower cult handlers you live in fear of will destroy your social identity, stereotype you as an apostate, and order anybody who continues to associate with any who escape to stop or face equal "arm twisting" tactics. Do you want to try to deny what I am saying? You can free yourself. There are ones here like me willing to help you re-socialize after your escape. You are like a bird being scared into remaining in the cage.

[brofun]

@propagandatechniques ? I don't live in fear in any way. I don't worry about my 'social identity. I am no part of this world..so, why would I want to identify with it? I am one of Jehovah's witnesses and love being so. If I choose to become an apostate..then sure, I'll be labeled as one. If i choose to become an adulterer..then I will be labeled as one. No big deal..you accept the consequences of your actions. AS for you help? don't make me sick..I've been around you guys a little..

[propagandatechniques]

@brofun Consequence of my actions? The best thing I ever did was escape that godforsaken cult. I left an elitist thinking pile of shit behind. I will never go back; I will always be thankful for my eyes being opened wide; and, I will do all I can to continue in the cult rescue operation Christ himself began back in the days of the comparable pharisees controlling the minds of the Jews.

[thepixieful]

@propagandatechniques

good chating here. the problem is not often being called a name, just a word/ words like cult apostate, heretic all words.......re-socilaizing, some of us have very little file cards to draw from IF we were to leave. your bird analogy is correct. heck I did not even know there was a world outside the beltway. lol. in the words of oprah when you know better ya do better.

[akashafuhr]

@brofun Exactly Propaman they don't "hold a gun to your head" but you live in fear of loss of Everything... Family Home Stability.

My mother would turn to us in service "pop quiz, soldiers have Daddy and I tied up with guns to our heads they tell you to renounce your fath as One of Jehovah's Witnesses or they willl shoot us right there. What do you do?"

Correct answer: Watch Mommy and daddy's brains spill out at your feet"

Brofun. Wake up. you are a pawn.

[brofun]

@akashafuhr not a pawn at all. these things have happened. You don't believe you are in a war..but you are. You've been fooled by the propaganda of satan..'be kind to yourself'..but, the tribulation will not be pleasant..and many will lose their lives..we are helping our families to get thru this time period. reread what happend in other countries..sons were killed in front of their fathers..fathers in front of their sons..as the enemy tried to break our faith..they failed..we didn't!

[thebrickinator]

funny how he has a podium and gives talks to all his stuffed animals. no wonder why he left, he was always right! hahahahaha!

[propagandatechniques]

Hahahaha! If you understand "Strawman," you'd know their audience they attack are stuffed animals. =)

[akashafuhr]

@thebrickinator Its what he was taught. What was Drilled into him and what he thought might be more "comphy" for the many Robots he is trying to deprogram.

[thepixieful]

the best advertising men are in NYC everyone knows that.

[brofun]

@thepixieful Thanks! Jesus said the good news would be preached and taught thruout th whole earth for a witness to the nationss and then the end would come!! So, since we are the most published, professed, etc..then we must be doing the job!

[propagandatechniques]

@brofun Actually, the Mormons have you beat by some 10 million + more recruits than your cult has. (read all my comments in this thread - go to "see all comments")

[brofun]

@propagandatechniques The mormons are not preaching the good news..neither are they teaching the truth about God..they don't make God's name known..they will go to war and kill each other..they believe we are all angels who volunteered to be human so that one day we will be a god of our own universe.

[akashafuhr]

Watchtower Sept 15th 2010 (Study Edition)

Your Leader is One, The Christ

"In this time of the end Christ has committed all his belongings all the earthly interest of the kingdom to his Faithful and Discreet Slave and its representative the Governing Body a group of anointed men" (Mathew 24: 45-47) The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern day Governing Body, they are Indeed Following their leader, Christ"

Read ; Spalms 146 3&4

Good News

[brofun]

@akashafuhr Exactly..and, just as if you were living in king davids time..and chose to rebell against him for his mistakes..would you be on Jehovah's side?..or not? Yes, the F&D slave take good care of us..they are undershepherds of christ..and they watch over us..help us when we make mistakes..and we aren't fooled by the propaganda of independent thinking. Christ is the one who put them in charge..and as paul said "be obedient to those taking the lead among you.

[propagandatechniques]

@brofun Here again you somehow correlate your handlers to King David. This is what you're saying; "I'm in a mind controlling cult and will not dare speak out and exit, knowing the handlers will announce me as no longer a dub, wrecking my family and friendships; but, that's okay because that is "rebellion," and if any rebelled against King David, much worse would've happened. This is a propaganda stunt called comparing apples to oranges.

[thepixieful]

@brofun

you got to admit the mormons have a great religion as far as science fiction goes....volunteering angels really. wow. and they are the biggest corporation and were on the cover of newsweek. but Prince was on the cover of the Rolling Stone. Is he still in?

[akashafuhr]

Whats Interesting is that they use it on themselfs.

Its so Dee that I actually have had internal Dialogue with myself and Used Strawman...

[bababybwoo]

I guess we could make a demand that if they dont want to be shut down, they had better start at least admitting that mistakes are being made right now and changes need to be made right now. It's got to start in Brooklyn cause that is where the elders get their orders from. You confront them and they'll say "but it says right here in this book..." It's like a pyramid system.

[brofun]

@bababybwoo ?? YOU are going to demand?? Who are YOU? The brothers in brooklyn are doing a fine job of educating and preaching and teaching. Could you do better? What are you qualifications? Where is YOUR track record?

[akashafuhr]

@brofun O.o Yeah the elders who "lead" our congregation had grEAT qualifications

Electrician

Contractor

Unemployed

Fine Job. How about the thousands of Pedophiles in the ORg. Hidden so not to shed a bad light on the Org.

Bravo what a great Job.. And now the one 'Prophecy" that was a the basis of your beliefs is being reworked.

Really?

[bababybwoo]

yes would be my response. I mean, why ask if you aren't going to let me speak.

[propagandatechniques]

It was during the making of this video when I first began envisioning a vast apostate army (it wasn't called that - it was only a vision then) that would not only speak out in opposition to the WTS, but would do everything it could to bring down the WTS. Now we're seeing that army take shape.

[brofun]

@propagandatechniques yes, the bible mentions that god and magog would come against Jehovah's seemingly unguarded people. It is obvious to those who know the truth and are not blind who your general is.

[escapethetower75]

fantastic video. i find it so hard to believe that so many witnesses read that sort of BS on a weekly basis and cant spot it.

[echs1]

They can't detect bs, because they don't read anything else...

[RadarKat73080]

There's lots of loaded language in WT publications. The Society publishes far more then the average reader and truly soak up. Any Witness who tells you they read everything is probably lying. The publications, as he mentioned, also give you the answer.

[joepublisher1]

Thanks so much for this training video. It's SO TRUE what you say in the video. Questions being asked and then they answer the question for you! JW's of course use the strawman techique a lot! They are experts in the use of propaganda techniques! Your videos are a public service to all - current JW's and any who may be thinking of studying with them. Please keep up the good work! btw: Wouldn't you love to see the Governing Body try to defend themselves personally over the Youtube medium?

[propagandatechniques]

This was one article that jumped out at me shortly after I began studying logical fallacies. This fallacy in particular was what motivated me to start making videos. This was in fact my very first video. This helped me walk away and not hang on any longer. I remember when we studied this information and how it tricked my mind back then. Scary.

[brofun]

@joepublisher1 You won't see that. It is not the commision of Christ to honor the crap that satan and his cohorts put out. Our commission is to preach the good news and make disciples. That is what we do.

[akashafuhr]

@brofun And destroy families and cover up child rapists and watch as a comunity around u dies due to natural desaster but only help your own members..

"love thy neighbor as yourself"

[captainspaulding17]

if you get rid of your gray t-shirt, put on a priest outfit and hang a cross behind you, i think you can make a lot of cash

[propagandatechniques]

Hehehe!

[angelkiki07]

interesting comments however what happened to the scripture that says...

[angelkiki07]

[Acts 17:10-11]:

"And the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so."

the "Truth should be able to stand on its own if it is in fact truth" We must always be open minded to not be afraid to scrutinize our belief system...

h40

[propagandatechniques]

Witnesses are not taught "to see whether these things are so." They are taught "not to question counsel given from God's organization." That shows evidence of "pride". (W83 1/15 pg 22 - "AVOID INDEPENDENT THINKING") The Bereoans would've been disfellowshipped for apostasy for pointing out the fallacies in "mother". What crap! =) I'm ashamed I once blindly followed all that BS.

[beroeanman]

I applaud that comment propaganda.. The Beroeans weren't disfellowshipped, and they certainly were NOT the Sons of Korah..

The Watchtower building itself recommends READ THE BIBLE DAILY... should we not test then to see whether these things are indeed so. Maybe that is why they discouraged independant Bible study groups after the Monday night "Family" Watchtower study, when I was at Bethel?

[ShibbolethJW]

Yea, good idea! ... Lets's all scruntinize the Bible, individually we'll study, research and meditate on what we've learned, ... Then we'll get together, compare our beliefs, discuss, debate and promote our particular view... When we find much disagreement, we'll fight, argue and kill over the results ... Great idea! Wait a minute, Christendom has been doing that for 2,000 years... I guess we'll have to figure out something else to do!

[propagandatechniques]

Um... I think that's the story we got about your founder, 33rd degree freemason Charles Taze Russell. Isn't that what he and other "bible students" did?

The fallacy in your comment is that everyone will go the route of Christendom. When Christendom began, it was Rome's way or the highway. Today we have the freedom called democracy to do just that, Shibboleth. Keep following your mother, the totalitarian slave girl. (Ga 4:30)

[ShibbolethJW]

Sounds like you swallowed the entire load of tripe the JW's haters are dishing out here.

Bon appetit!

[dabigez357]

its easy to fear what you don.t understand or different!

[propagandatechniques]

Yes, like the way the WTS fears their members learning the real truth about them?

[WhereIsTruth]

hey dabigez,

that is exactly what the Society does. make their members fear what they don't understand or is different.

they go out of their way to make it seem like a "sin" to read any material that opposes them.

this is against the Scripture that says we are to "make sure of all things"

[propagandatechniques]

Hey WIT, can you please repost your comment to dabigez357 by clicking the reply link by his name? I don't think he'll see it because I got it for some reason. Thanks.

[WhereIsTruth]

hey brother,

i did reply to him...it's just that youtube puts the comments in order.

the reason you go the notice is because both the the person replied to, and the owner of the video get notified. :)

i watched about 4 of your videos last night, hope to see the rest soon.

anyway, i was thinking while i was watching them....surely the Governing Body hates youtube. lol

[akashafuhr]

@ShibbolethJW U swallowed that The United nations was the Wild beast . but the people who told you this went and hung out at the library and took a oath to uphold the UN's Ideals every year for some 1 years...

Same People own 52 percent of a company that supplied Engines to THe armed forces..

Think for yourself and feel the walls become sand Beneith your feet

[reslight]

@propagandatechniques Charles Taze Russell was not the founder of the JWs. Russell preached against such authoritarian organizations, as well as against the kind of "Good news" of bad tidings of woe that most of the people are to be eternally destroyed if they do not accept such an organization. Russell was not the founder of that which he did not believe in, and which he preached against.

[reslight]

@propagandatechniques Charles Taze Russell was never a member of the freemasons. The tens of thousand of pages that have been produced from his works attest that he was not in support of such an organization; the only evidence presented those who claim that Russell was a member of the Freemasons, such as Springmeier, is what has to imagined and assumed.

[propagandatechniques]

@reslight I guess I imagined where Russell referred to the freemasons in one of his talks as the bible student's "brothers."

[reslight]

@propagandatechniques I certainly have never found any place that Russell said that the Freemasons were the Bible Students' "brothers". Some quote -- out of context -- from Russell's sermon "The Temple of God" in order to make it appear that he was saying such; however, if one examines closely what Russell stated he was not saying such. The sermon may be found at the site: ctr reslight net

[propagandatechniques]

We have the freedom to study, meditate, think for ourselves, share ideas, agree, disagree and develop a common understanding based on mutual interaction.

Can you question God? Yes. (Hab 1:3)

Can you question Christ? Yes (Mt 9:14)

Can you question the "mother" of God? No. (W83 1/15 pg 22- "AVOID INDEPENDENT THINKING*** "How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization."

God's "mother". Hmm...

[thepixieful]

@propagandatechniques

hey prop, that was the year and the teaching that had my dear old dad even look quizically.....he is gone now and would have been 100 years old this year and sure knew his bible........ sure the pagans had Isis and all, but mother of God is in the Roman church of antiquity......if a goddess is mentioned why not the nighty and the baccanal????? can I pour you one????? it gets mind boggling and a bit silly doesn't it?

[propagandatechniques]

Hey Shibboleth,

Please don't misunderstand me. Some people need guidance and direction and cannot think for themselves. I'm not one of those people. To each his own. Peace. =)

[OrlandoParty2K]

33rd degree freemason Charles Taze Russell was buried under and Illuminati pyramid. I think the JWs are doing a fine job with you.

[akashafuhr]

@OrlandoParty2K The GB says they were Chosen By jesus because of the very teachings they try not to let their members now get to see or learn..

Interesting.

[reslight]

@OrlandoParty2K Russell was neither a freemason, nor was he buried under an illuminati pyramid; indeed, Russell was not buried under any pyramid at all.

[propagandatechniques]

@reslight Is it true that Russell derived the 1914 date from the study of pyramids?

[propagandatechniques]

@donaldsodav290 And who exactly legally incorporated the Watchtower, took measurements of the great pyramid in Giza, and wished to construct a scale model of it? I'll give you a clue . . . his name keeps being mentioned.

[reslight]

@propagandatechniques The Watch Tower as Russell had legally incorporated it was effectually destroyed by Rutherford within a few months after Russell died. By deceit and legal trickery, Rutherford usurped an authority that Russell preached against.

[thepixieful]

@reslight sir, do you believe that Russell was murdered on that train on halloween? or was it just death. would like your comments.

[reslight]

@propagandatechniques Rutherford attributed the idea of pyramid monument to J. A. Bohnet; Rutherford claimed that Bohnet had received the approval Russell for building that monument, but I highly doubt that this is so, as would appear to be out of character for Russell. Nevertheless, outside its being an extravagant waste of funds, there is nothing wrong with such a monument.

[reslight]

@donaldsodav290 Russell never referred to himself as a pyramidologist. It by that term one means a person who believes in that the Great Pyramid is God's Stone Witness in Egypt, I would agree that he was was a pyramidolgist. Nothing wrong with that.

[propagandatechniques]

@reslight There's nothing wrong with his brand of mystical manipulation as long as it does not induce ones to become mindless followers of such tripe. 1914 having any kind of spiritual significance is rubbish, whether by bible manipulation or measurements of the giza pyramid. When we start putting faith in such nonsense that's when we need to seriously question ourselves and our own providence, not the teachings that influence such. Russell was a snake oil salesman. Miracle wheat? Please!

[reslight]

@propagandatechniques In what way do you believe Russell induce people to become mindless followers? Indeed, he presented others' views several times, and stated that he must allow others to have their views. It one is familiar with the writings of that time, it should become apparent that there were several different views amongst the Bible Students regarding the ending of the Gentile Times. Russell never sought to force his associates to accept his views.

[reslight]

@propagandatechniques Russell did nothing wrong regarding Bohnet's sell of Stoner's miracle wheat. Nothing "snake oil" about it. See my site ctr reslight net for the category "miracle wheat" for the facts.

[guerrdenn12]

@reslight Yoiu have nothing to do with hopeless lfe that worry about JW you was kick out and that is why you talking nothing lurk in the kingdom hall more that the Catholic Church which you love talk aboutt them you loser. get a life and go worship your mary and paster and further more i am not a JW but they have moer class that you ever will have in you pathetic lfe.

[reslight]

@guerrdenn12 I am not sure what I might have said to evoke such name-calling and evil-speaking, but may God bless you as He wills.

[R0ckMusicL0v3r]

@guerrdenn12 What's with you JWs and your obsession with the Catholic church? Actually, nevermind. To push any sorts of cultic propaganda, you need a boogeyman who is larger than your group. The Nazis had Non-Aryans, Commies have "The Rich" and JWs have the Catholics. I can rephrase what you said to match any sort of propagandistic cult group. Here goes (cont)

[CapnHolic]

@R0ckMusicL0v3r I had a long conversation with my folks about that a few weeks ago. Was rather funny trying to see them rationalize hatred toward other christians. Pointing out that in the long run, whether jesus died on a cross or a stake, or heaven vs life on earth were not big deals. But the JW brainwashing shone through, and it went from funny to sad.

[wanitek]

@guerrdenn12 Do you have class?

[guerrdenn12]

@reslight You was one of them you rapist you wanted one othos youung boys that the issue with you u nasty worstless human being. I not religious but have no respect for people like you loser! I have idea what Presiding overseer is but get a life and leave those people alone. They said all sort of stuff about your sweet Jesus and yet he was God's son

[reslight]

@propagandatechniques No. The date 1914 was derived from study of Bible prophecy. The Great Pyramid corroborates the date 1914, but the date itself was "derived" from the Great Pyramid.

[reslight]

@reslight I stated: "the date itself was 'derived' from the Great Pyramid"; this should have read: "the date itself was NOT 'derived' from the Great Pyramid"

[EelSacul]

@reslight youtube.com/watch?v=ngYDytpKSC­k One out of two ain't bad!

[propagandatechniques]

"Then we'll get together, compare our beliefs, discuss, debate and promote our particular view... When we find much disagreement, we'll fight, argue and kill over the results ... Great idea!"

The only one fighting here is you, Shibboleth.

[akashafuhr]

@ShibbolethJW Awww... Yeah you guys just throw 13 year olds out into the street becuase they don't want to be a JW anymore..

Pfft

[beroeanman]

Gentleman.. my opinion, your opinion, doesn't matter... the opinion of the head of the Christian congregation is what matters.

What if...? he didn't die for us... then we would truly be men of straw.

All agreed?

Peace and freedom from quarelling.

[propagandatechniques]

Hi Beroean,

This would be true if it's even certain there would be such a thing as a true Christian congregation at the time of the end. Bear in mind that the Mormons, Moonies and many other groups also believe they are the true Christian congregation built on the first century. Yet, Jesus himself said differently;

(Matthew 16:27) . . .For the Son of man is destined to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will recompense each one according to his behavior.

[exjw44288]

Like someone who is trying to brainwash others would tell them right up front, "You are being brainwashed!" LOL. Good video.

[propagandatechniques]

Lol! I know.

"Have Jehovah's Witnesses used mind control on you?" Yes, doubtless, would be your frank response". Tell the dumb audience what to think and they think it. Sheeesh! I was just doing that three weeks ago, lol!

[visumax]

Has anyone noticed that alot of the political clips covering the usa atm are being taken down and flooded by fox clips? another Propaganda Technique :)

[propagandatechniques]

I haven't watched TV in days, lol! =)

[ShibbolethJW]

The technique you use here is similar to the lame and ridiculous tact taken by purveyors of supposed subliminal art, "look at a picture in a WT publication long enough, and those with an agenda and a vivid imagination will see whatever they wish to see.

You see it as a "straw man" argument, ... JW's see it as a statement of fact... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[propagandatechniques]

That's interesting, Shibboleth, because three weeks ago when I was a fulltime pioneer, MS, in line to becoming an elder, I did a search on the WT library and found this article and saw the manipulative technique for what it was and now can say I am no longer a Jehovah's Witness. I once thought bifurcatedly too. I would speak in absolutes. Now I see in infrared. Ask Timkilgore if I'm telling the truth. I've realized that the WTBTS writers are not the kindly old men you think they are.

[ShibbolethJW]

Wow, we sure dodged a bullet there,.. didn't we?

To think that a man, thought of as a steady and stalwart spiritual crag within the congregation could be so easily shaken from his reason, now that's scarry!!!

Are you trying to tell me that you were this zealous full time preacher and M.S, and then bam! .. One phrase, from one article, in one magazine .... blew you right out of the water, .... and then BAM!!! ... three weeks later you're a full blown apostate??? Is that what you're saying?

[propagandatechniques]

Hi Shibboleth, actually, it was my studying "propaganda and debating techniques" (google) and then seeing that propaganda stunt 2.15.94 jump out at me when I did a search on the WT library under "mind control". If it was the truth, I would have never been shaken. I cannot and will not serve where there are fallacies and misrepresentations. Go read my posts from my other handle in timkilgore's videos. My handle was gunshypi. I was defending what I thought was the truth. I snapped out of it fast.

[akashafuhr]

@ShibbolethJW "To think that a man, thought of as a steady and stalwart spiritual crag within the congregation could be so easily shaken from his reason, now that's scarry!!!" To think that a man, thought of as a steady and stalwart spiritual crag within the congregation could a child molester and the other "Spiritual crags" in the congregation knew and told no one... But it is true...

[propagandatechniques]

When you say the "JWs see it as a statement of fact" is a similar pattern of thinking that the mystery author of the article in question presents to the audience, as if all millions would unanimously agree with the author's sentiments. Well, that's simply not true. There's going to be an announcement within the next two weeks of one more from my hall that is disassociating with this cult because of being able to also see the mind control techniques displayed thoughout their literature.

[propagandatechniques]

The point is, Shibboleth, that if millions of people were ever actually interviewed regarding Jehovah's Witnesses being a cult, "no" would not be their frank response. Many would agree that they felt they were being brainwashed. As a matter of fact, I've been interviewing people who once studied to see their responses. The unknown author is actually misrepresenting the truth. That, my friend, means that what JWs are actually following is not the truth at all.

[ShibbolethJW]

Now, how do you know that? ... You call there comments manipulative, and then you do the very same thing! Now, how can I argue with your comment that their claim is false, and what's more, the exact opposite is true, many would say that they have been brain washed?

[propagandatechniques]

I did it for 15 years my friend. They used "hypnotic bait and switch". 16 chapters of absolute, unrefutable truth, then in chapter 17, (knowledge book) they introduced their self appointed FDS CLASS concept and I fell for it, hook, line and sinker. So did you. We all did. I'm telling you this not to hurt you. I'm telling you this because I do not see anything good coming out of 7,000,000 people following the leadership of hidden men they never even met. That's scary my friend. Unknown guides.

[ShibbolethJW]

I really can't agree with what you're saying, "16 chapters of irrefutable truth"? Perhaps your problem is that you didn't excercise appropriate discernment when you studied, perhaps you failed to "examine these things daily", to see whether they were so. When I studided, more than three decades ago, I studied, I scruntinized and I compared to what others taught. My study conductor taught me about Matt 24:45-47 early on, and I scruntiized the teaching of JW's relative to this passage.

[propagandatechniques]

If you look at the passage again, the belongings will be appointed at the time of Armageddon when the evil slave will be destroyed, not before. You've allowed men to manipulate your mind into a false teaching which has given them full power over your very soul. Trust them. They're the FDS CLASS. Oops... they added that last word, not me.

[ShibbolethJW]

So now, you've made yourself just another false voice crying out in the barren wilderness and a sea of false voices, all thinking they have found some flaw in JW's doctrine, and they have been specially blessed to know the truth. So what! What are you going to do now? Will you personally go and preach the good news in all nations, before the end? Will you make up the nucleus of a society of people, known the world over for the love and unity Christ said would characterize true Christianity?

[ShibbolethJW]

Deny it all you want, but I know you've been beaten down and manipulated by the anti-JW's crowd here, .. Welcome to your new master!

[propagandatechniques]

Yes, thank you. I've foraken my old master called "governing body" in order to serve my one and only master Jesus Christ, the one who shed his blood for me and you.

[akashafuhr]

@ShibbolethJW this Anit JW Crowed you speak of does not force OUR ideals on anyone we share what we belive. Let people come to their own conclusion

If we gained the knowledge of good and bad thru adam and eve why do we need a body of men in NY to tell us what it is?

[propagandatechniques]

The fallacy is in thinking the end is here. The end will be for the FDS CLASS when they comply with the UN's removal of all organized religion, then we'll see the "great crowd" acting like a chicken without it's head. Then we'll see who's really serving the true master Jesus Christ and who was idolizing a body of men. Yes, I am preaching the good news without your mediator, the FDS CLASS.

(1 Timothy 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus

[akashafuhr]

@ShibbolethJW If a ORganization is who claims to be Directed by God really is why whoudl they have a problem with you studying and researching and proving them right?

Answer cuz they are Lieing or Misguided themselfs

[propagandatechniques]

Jesus Christ shed his blood for you, Shibboleth, not these men in hiding (discreet?). They're using brainwashing techniques to separate you from your family, friends and even your own spouse if necessary, all in the name of Jesus Christ. I assure you, the angels will do the separating of true righteous ones at Armageddon, not these men, based on who's in this cult or not. I smell something very, very bad happening here and see no positive outcome.

[propagandatechniques]

Please do me this favor, Shibboleth. Google two things: "propaganda and debating techniques" orange papers and "eight criteria for thought reform" by Dr. Robert J. Lifton. After reading through these websites and becoming familiar with what are called "logical fallacies", then see if you still feel you have the truth. Unless, of course, you're afraid to peek behind the curtain out of fear your faith will be shattered and you too will be faced with no other choice then to escape the mind control.

[propagandatechniques]

Also, SBL, it was the "unsuitable fish" distinction in the 07.15.08 study article, (last one) that did it for me. Likening ones that once studied to "unsuitable fish" and then claiming all the "fine ones" are in the vesselike Christian congregations is what did it for me. I was the WT reader that day. It totally messed with my conscience. Read the scriptures. It's the angels that will be doing the separating, not these men. You're living under something far more insidious than the Mosaic Law.

[ShibbolethJW]

My opinion is based upon the experience of three decades, having been well cared for, well fed and well led by God's organization. You've fallen into the rebellious talk of

Ko′rah, who challenged Jahs' annointed, Moses, although Moses had proven his leadership was based on God's appointment time after time.

Tell me, where did you learn the true condition of the dead? The erroneous nature regarding the teachings of the trinity or hell fire? ... From Youtube?

[ShibbolethJW]

You my friend are the one who's been manipulated by your own unwise associations with those determined to rip JW's from their faith I hope you will re-think your position and what you've given away, for a bowl of stew, ... And for the sake of what?

[propagandatechniques]

First of all, it was my own research in "propaganda and debating techniques" from unbiased sources that convinced me I was being brainwashed by mind control experts. You believe you're being led by kindly, old men and I respect that, having once believed the same thing. I'm convinced what's leading you are psychology and writing experts that have you hoodwinked into thinking that anyone that speaks critically of the FDS is evil. How many times were you told that in 30 years before it sank in?

[akashafuhr]

@ShibbolethJW We dont take people away or try and make them leave we share what we have learned and let them decide. We have the choice God given. Man that that away for you men in NY who say god moves thru them

[propagandatechniques]

I learned those things from the Bible before I became a witness. You're making the mistake of thinking because the FDS teaches these things that they hold the franchise on them. Do a little more research as I've done and you'll find that the Mormons and the Moonies teach the very same things. It's called "hypnotic bait and switch". Jim Jones taught these same teachings before making his followers drink poisoned kool-aid at gunpoint. They also believed they were a part of "God's Organization".

[propagandatechniques]

"My opinion is based upon the experience of three decades, having been well cared for, well fed..."

Yeah, you've had so much pressure put on you in that 30 years it isn't even funny. How many family members do you have that you aren't allowed to speak with?

How many friendships have you lost in 30 years due to the unscriptural disfellowshipping of ones who simply wan to leave?

[ShibbolethJW]

You came to all these conclusions/opinions in three weeks? ... In three weeks time you went from Pioneer, MS and potential elder, to what you now are? ..... Simply amazing!

[propagandatechniques]

Yes, and there's a very simple explanation why that is. I saw things that were not scripturally sound at all the whole time I was in. I wasn't allowed to even think it let alone talk. Judgement based on if one is "in the ark" so to speak. Yet, there were accounts such as Rahab, "those sighing and groaning over the detestable things" and Jesus' own words clearly defining recompensation being based on one's behavior. (Mt 16:27), not in vile name calling and saying people are "full of" anything.

[propagandatechniques]

So, not being able to even think these things due to "thought terminating cliches" such as "apostasy" entering into my mind and terminating all thought after seeing things I knew weren't scriptural barred me from saying anything. Now that I'm out I'm free to discuss it. Like the saying goes, "you can't rape the willing." In this case, you can't disfellowship the willing. Our heavenly Father will judge us all based on the merit of Jesus' blood sacrifice, not a bunch of Mosaic stipulations by men.

[meriwold]

yep....I agree....glad your free now, I wish my sister was..

Meri

[propagandatechniques]

Thanks. =)

[propagandatechniques]

You see, ther are things keeping you penned in that you don't even realize. One is the harsh "demand for purity". Honesty would dictate that nobody in the kingdom hall is pure, though all like to give that impression. Any sin is kept very secret for fear of it becoming everybody's business. One brother had a 20 yr addiction to porn. His wife found out and wigged. He told one elder. In no time, the whole congregation knew. That alone keeps people in a silent prison.

[thepixieful]

@propagandatechniques

two things you mention. hidden authority at the top. must be lonely at the top. the beatles went on tour, they don't tour. and AA says we are as sick as our secrets.

[propagandatechniques]

Another very real mind control device is "dispensing of existence". The leaders have the right to decide who stays and who goes. You don't realize it, but that's a major controlling factor in keeping ones from speaking out. Who wants to be shunned by his family and friends for speaking out against wrongdoing in the congregation? Yet that's what happens due to the harsh "demand for purity". If a child is molested, it's better to announce her DFed than to bring reproach against Jehovah's name.

[propagandatechniques]

This wouldn't bother me if it wasn't for the fact that all major cults are using the same criteria for thought reform. "Sacred Science" is only within the group can truth be found. The spokespeople for the group are likewise above criticism. This keeps ones from even thinking, no less speaking critically of the group. "Doctrine over person" means you must shed all personal beliefs and conform to the ideology of the group, or groupthink, also called "pluralistic ignorance", right or wrong.

[propagandatechniques]

"Mystical Manipulation" is planned or orchestrated by the group or its leaders. Dates and events lined up to give the appearnace that the leaders have some kind of divine authority. 607 B.C.E. was made up to substantiate the date 1914. A barge that was loosened destroyed the levee during Katrina. It wasn't a "natural disaster". Yet it is things like this that now gives license to these men to reinterpret scriptures any way they please.

[propagandatechniques]

When I mentioned it being better to DF the child, it's in the case of if she's complaining about being molested. They would just soon silence her by disfellowshipping her for slander than to "bring reproach agaisnt Jehovah's name". When I was in, I went along with this. Now that I'm out, I am free to speak about it canddidly without fear of reprisals from within.

[propagandatechniques]

When confronted with these things, I'd be angered not because of meanness on the part of the messenger, but in that it was causing cognitive dissonance within my inner psyche, causing me to become internally frustrated.

[propagandatechniques]

My final thoughts are this Shibboleth, what happened to me can happen to any of the ones inside, including you. Just the fact you are here says something. You probably feel you are strong enough to handle anything and not have your faith waiver. That's exactly how I was when I would defend the "truth" here. Go see Timkilgore's videos and look for the user gunshypi. That was me defending the "truth". Now I'm truly free to talk about the real organization I once thought belonged to God.

[ShibbolethJW]

Well there I would agree with you!

What happened to you can happen to any of us, "Let him who thinks he is standing, beware that he does not fall".

As for the rest of your ramblings, I wouldn't know where to begin debugging all your nonsensical conclusions.

As I said before, if this works for you!

Enjoy your trip down the twisted and empty road of introspective rationalism... While you do, we'll demonstrate love for God and our fellow man by preaching the "good news" of his Kingdom.

[propagandatechniques]

"Let him who thinks he is standing, beware that he does not fall".

You judge me and others here as having "fallen". As you judge me and my contemporaries here that are voicing the truth to you, thought terminating cliches, such as the one quoted above, stop your mind from considering that we have escaped the clutches of Babylon the Great which does in fact include your religion and all of its bifurcated rationale.

It's judgemental statements just like this that make me glad to be out. =)

[ShibbolethJW]

Your hypocritical, pride induced actions and attitude betray you for what you are ...

And there's another thing we can agree on ....

we're glad your out to!!!

(1 John 2:19) . . .They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.

[ShibbolethJW]

I meant, TOO!!!

[propagandatechniques]

Lol! Well, if you saw the way the friends from my hall were crying and carrying on, you wouldn't know they're glad I'm out. But after the thought terminating cliche "apostate" sinks into their heads, they'll bifurcatedly yield to group think.

There were some barking at me over the phone, really railing against me. I sure felt the love. There's nothing like it. =)

[propagandatechniques]

That's an interesting scripture you quoted Shibboleth. John was speaking to the other apostles of Christ. They weren't following the FDS "class". They were following the Christ, just like some of us that left are doing. Who are the ones following the Christ and who are the ones following man? Hmm...

[meriwold]

shibboleth...

Please, any church can claim this verse..like I said before show me in scripture where it indicates only JW's please God and are the only ones who have the truth...it is not in the bible..it is what an organization tells its members and they believe...

[meriwold]

No, shibboleth,

You preach doom..... and no hope for people outside the WT org. That my friend is NOT biblical. I am still waiting for any JW to show me where in the bible it states a person must be a baptized JW to have a relationship with Jesus and be saved. Please, I am waiting...and one thing..do not change the subject. Just salvation and what the WT teaches vs what the bible teaches..go ahead...show me..

[akashafuhr]

@ShibbolethJW Its amazing the paths you see when U take off the blinders.

[propagandatechniques]

Would you buy a camera from Kodak if the manufacturers told you they would refuse selling to you if it's found out you were reading reviews other than Kodak reviews? What if Kodak then went as far as to bar other customers from talking to you if you have in fact been reading reviews other than Kodak reviews? Would you do business with Kodak?

[ShibbolethJW]

Kodak is junk, I buy Minolta.

[propagandatechniques]

"well led by God's organization"

Led by a self-appointed organization of men.

Christ leads true Christians. Who did you say leads you?

(Matthew 23:10) . . .Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.

Please answer one simple yes or no question for me, Shibboleth,

Is following the FDS CLASS the same as following the Christ?

Yes or no?

[ShibbolethJW]

(Hebrews 13:7) 7 Remember those who are taking the lead among YOU, who have spoken the word of God to YOU, and as YOU contemplate how [their] conduct turns out imitate [their] faith. . .

[propagandatechniques]

It's a yes or no question, Shibboleth. Remembering ones like me that are taking the lead in helping rescue ones like you from a psychologically destructive cult (Re 18:4) is a little different than being in abject subjection to men you don't even know, not even thinking anything might be wrong with that because of being told thousands of times that questioning "god's organization" is evidence of pride. Yes or no Shibboleth? Is following the FDS CLASS the same as following Jesus Christ?

[thepixieful]

@propagandatechniques

do you think some personality types need leaders...others ARE leaders?

[propagandatechniques]

Do you know what cognitive dissonance is, Shibboleth? That's when someone who is a victim of mind control has a conflict in his thinking between emotion and knowledge. You've been taught to follow the FDS and to trust them as they follow Christ. Yet, you know emotionally that you are to follow the Christ only. So when knowledge and emotion clash, it's cognitive dissonance, resulting in your pupils dilating and contracting. It's scary to talk to someone who's mind is no longer theirs.

[ShibbolethJW]

Sorry propaganda man, but do you know what "FULL OF CRAP" is??? .... You!!!

... That's what!

It would be comical if it wasn't sooo tragic, but you've stumbled right into the same kind of false reasoning Eve did ...

Well, I hope that works for you, as for me and my household, we'll continue to serve Jehovah God in association with the ONLY religious organization on earth today who are clearly doing his will...

[propagandatechniques]

Funny, but the Moonies, who also base their faith on multitudes of Bible truth and start by studying the Bible with believers just like you also believe that if they keep selling flowers and candy for "Father" Moon, he'll buy up all the land in the world and develop it into an earthwide Garden of Eden. Sound familiar? They call this "doing God's will".

[akashafuhr]

@ShibbolethJW Where did you learn it?

A book men wrote.. Books that u r told U need to use to understand something GOD and JESUS said we should EXAMINE ourself daily...

Psalms 146 3 and 4 "Do not put your turst in Nobles nor the son of earthing Man to whom no salvation belongs.

Do you follow man or christ?

[propagandatechniques]

"Now, how can I argue with your comment that their claim is false..."

You can't.

[TimKilgore]

This is fantastic! That example you used is a dual example of monopolizing the conversation as well. I love the song you used, I love the subject, this series will do alot of good :)

[propagandatechniques]

Thanks Tim. I learned from the best! =)

[leavingwt]

Thank you for the excellent video.

[propagandatechniques]

You're welcome. =) I hope it's helpful for you and your loved ones.