MARSHALL PROTOCOL KILLED MY AUNT!! DO NOT FOLLOW THIS PLAN OR PROMOTE IT IN ANY WAY!!! DOCTORS DO NOT SUPPORT IT!!!
My Aunt followed the Marshall Protocol to a T. She had drapes over her windows to block out all the sunlight and vitamin D, she regularly took the pills Dr. Marshall suggested and as a result her disease became worse. She had chronic fatigue, but she could at least come out for a few hours a day to shop, have lunch or see a movie. After MARSHALL Protocol for 3 diligent years s
Electromedicine/Rife machines, interesting read but for me & what I have seen on your tube, no one seems to have completely recovered from lymes via these devices.Ticks were there with the hunter gatherers, can you imagine them with $12K biophoton device with a McDonalds donut/happy meal, homeopathic remedies with Ledum 1M x3 daily OR rife machines, electricuting the F*uck out of bugs? or BEEF DRIPPING OR SIMILAR& Few herbs, grasses, acorns, chestnuts, berries, roots, meat, fish, seafood, nuts
@starsweet4 Yes, but when I was in a mess with my lymes, I tried this for a while and it just did not have the same effect as fatty meat. Although fatty meat from grass fed animals is a sensible choice, not the grain fed animals which provide alot of saturated fats (obese animals). Teasel root (found in UK) has been excellent. I do not take the alcohol but I chew the root. As for Coconut oil, nature doesn't offer it in the UK for a reason. It is good to consider what has nature provided me.
If you decide to kick ass & want any other advice or think the beef dripping has worked I am here & interested to hear from you. If you have die off reactions & want to swear & kill me for suggesting you go on beef dripping, take milk thistle, dandelion, burdock root, more lard, water, marshmallow, contact me later, you will be OK. Within 3 weeks to months, you'll walk (ataxia, numbness, crying will go ). No veg oil, it counteracts beef fat. sufferers can talk to me freely, I am here to learn
I called my lymes bacteria Harry, I called the house spider Freddy, if the environment is right Harry will be living with you for a long time, if you don't like him, don't call him a bastard or little devil, he is alot older than U - billions of years old, so he aint taking no for an answer, just be nice. GET RID OF HIS FOOD, THE FUNGUS! BEEF DRIPPING KILLS OF THE FUNGUS/CANDIDA ALBICANS! A study shows this, & don't forget to wave goodbye to Harry, he will not be detectable via microscope!
@Catherine8raw Hi - are you saying that we need to kill all fungus to get rid of Lyme? Are you saying to eat mostly beef to kill the fungus? Thank you in advance for your clarification.
Yeah electricute lymes/candida but lard is like a nuke, it is the king of killers. Herbs/homeopathy. electricity/light is laughable compared to beef lard, NATURAL KILLER CELLS GO UP! Throw your veg oil in bin. Neurotoxins are most of the time the mycotoxins, the acetylaldehyde, the BURN! Take psysium husks to grab hold of the bad guys in your gut, it will get to all your pockets and show them the exit sign, take fenugreek for your lymphatic system, take probiotics FOR THE AFTERMATH,
So if very low D levels OR very high D levels would make you feel better, why choose low levels except as a misunderstanding that feeling better means you are healthier. Those in hospice care on their death bed refuse to drink water, and hospice workers advise family not to force them to drink. This is because severe dehydration is a pain reliever. Ok fine, they are dying, let's ease their pain with dehydration. But if you are not on your death bed, why would you use dehydration for pain relief?
I think those who have taken D and felt worse weren't taking enough. Taking D without monitoring blood levels of 25OHD is irresponsible. I have patients taking 8000iu per day but their blood levels are only 35! So we up them to 16,000 per day and they might get up to 60 and finally start feeling better. Having very low D levels does not kill you, in fact it might help someone with a chronic illness like Lyme to feel better because it lowers immune mediated herx reactions.
@johnbcampise maybe, maybe not. My doc monitored, and I started at 14. It took hands full of D3/day for a year to get mine up, and I had immediate improvement, and then got even worse over time. Like many LD sufferers, I've become walking encyclopedia & can talk on docs' level on some topics. When I read some info on MP, based on my own body & experience, it made sense. Esp. eye probs. My wellness doc is my PARTNER. I trust he'll work w/me & find solution... in time. I'm asking him re MP.
@txsherrie, thanks for your response. It would help me if you can: what was your 25OH-D blood level after one year when you say your level was "up?" And, what was the dosage of D that you were taking for a year when you say you were taking hands full? Thanks.
@johnbcampise Sure! As you know, I started at 14. I took 50Kmg first dose, then 8K/day for 6mos., and I was only up to 45, doc wanted 50-100, pref. 65. Upped it to 50K once/wk & 8k/day - end of yr, was up to 65. Drink LOTS of milk, am too fair to do sun even 10 min, have 400mg in multi, & quit taking D reg when my house burned 8/25/09. PA said it was "low" last mo., but didn't give # . I see doc nxt wk 8/25 & will ask - esp to address MP. Doc takes 5K/day & gets min of 10-20 min/day sun.
@txsherrie Thanks! I'm not sure why doc let you go so long between blood tests. Since you have a major chronic illness, you should have taken 50K per day until your blood was up to 150ng/ml (should have taken 3 weeks). (There's no known side effects under 200 ng/ml) Then drop to 20K per day and keep retesting at 3 week intervals to see how much you need to take daily to keep you at 150 ng/ml. The very slow increase in your D levels over 1 year must have been agonizing for your body.
@johnbcampise I read something that made "layman's sense" to me - want to ask: It was stating that Vt. D is NOT a vitamin, but hormone. Vit. are something we have to ingest, hormones are something we produce, and w/sun, we produce D. Also said supplementing causes body to lower production (think cortisone suppressing adrendals, etc.). True? Yes? No?
@txsherrie Vit D is hormone, but we cannot make it without ultraviolet B light. Supplementing does not inhibit vit D production in the skin as far as I know. The rate limiting step is ultraviolet A breaks down vit D in the skin, so we can only make so much in our skin. We can make a net total 20,000 to 30,000 iu of D in our skin each day if we have 20 min UV B light exposure. So 20-30k iu of D per day is a natural dose that we should all be getting for long term optimal health. From sun or supp.
@txsherrie I showed to be deficient in 25(OH) vitamin D but not by loads because by the time the doctor tested I had been taking vitamin D3 and fermented cod liver oil. I know that lymes patients may have high 1,25 dehydroxy thingy bob... In your opinion is it dangerous and useless to supplement vitamin D3, whether one has lymes or not? I am a recovered chronic lymes patient. What is your opinion on omega 3/fish oils. I know they contain no vit D, but can low (NK)/high immune system other ways.
@Catherine8raw , thanks for your reply. I need to know what your actual blood test values were/are in order to have an opinion. As far as D3 supplementation is concerned, no one is 100% certain yet, not enough research. But it looks like high blood levels of 25OH-D are best for long term health in most. The problem with illness like Lymes is the over active immune system. Low D levels suppress immune sys., medium D levels boost it, super high D levels is best cause it keeps it in the middle.
@johnbcampise Serum Vitamin D 46.8 nmol/L Where can I get a private test for 1, 25 (OH) vitamin D, and what could I tell my doctor for reasons of needing this test, when the 25 (OH) suppost to be the right kind.
@Catherine8raw I don't know. I recommend getting your blood levels of 25 (OH)-D to 150 ng/ml (375 nmol/L) for 6 months first. But get them there as quickly as you can by taking 50,000iu of D3 per day and test your blood levels every 2-3 weeks, then once at 150 ng/ml, back off the D and test your blood every month to keep your levels at 150 for 6 months minimum. The other major hidden deficiencies are B12, iodine, and omega 3/6 and saturated oil imbalances. All these play major roles in immunity.
@Catherine8raw Also, the other hidden problem is vit A toxicity.There is evidence that too much vitamin A (or too little) will interfere with proper D function in the body. So, make sure to stay off all vit A (cod liver oil, liver, retinol palmitate, retinoic acid, etc.). Instead you can take as much beta carotene as you want (the precursor to vit A). Your body will make as much or little A as it needs from the BC. there is no known mechanism in the body for getting rid of high levels of vit A.
@johnbcampise Western A. Price reccomended we all have good vitamin D and A. Beta carotene relys upon saturated fat to be converted into vitamin A. Cod liver oil these days seems to be full of the synthetic vitamin A, liver is good, but we must keep in balance. Vitamin A is crucial for our immune system and linings. 100g Liver once a week will prevent vitamin A deficiency, providing a big 28, 000IU of vit A. Vit A is a fat soluble vit, get rid of fats and you'll be depleted in A, D, E not good!
@Catherine8raw I'm not a doctor, so I'm trying to sort this all out just like you. Based on what I know now, if I was recovered from Lyme, I would want to supplement D3. Lyme is the reason I am considering reducing it - based on the MP. I take Omega fish oils. I seem to have benefited as an immune system modulator, but since it was part of my whole program, I'm depending on research more than experience. I'm not much help. Sorry.
@txsherrie How are you doing with lyme disease, are you getting anywhere? What were your mistakes and what were the best things you have done in your opinion. As for me, I still think fats are important. Teasel root and lapacho seem the best herbs, with artemisia. Although, on fat alone with teasel root, things were going perfect. I added aload of garlic and things that lowered my fats and again, symptoms came back.Grass fed animals/olive oil/veggies/wild meats/fish seem OK. Wild fruit didn't
"D levels are like a spring. The topmost pool is the calcium system. When it's full, D flows to pools below, cancer, heart disease, infection... You want D to increase natural antibiotics (AMPs) AND quell excess immune response. Is the AMP pool above the cytokine dampening pool? If so, 25D of 30 may be enough for innate immunity but not for preventing a cytokine storm that kills. Taking only 2k/day may risk death from a cytokine storm; explains why those with "high" D levels in 1918 died."
I have an idea that may explain why some feel better with very low 25-D levels (below 15ng/ml), and why others with "high" D doses feel better: 25-D levels between 20 and 35 stimulate the immune system, increasing immune mediated inflammation (herx reactions). Dr Cannelli has written a theory that very high 25-D levels (50-80ng/ml) lower immune modulated inflammation, but medium levels increase it. So maybe both sides are right: get 25 D either really low, or really high, but not medium.
Nope its true! I can only go by my own experiences I have use antibiotics and fluconazole with high doses of D and i feel good bc the D yet after a year my symptoms began to worsen. After removing D3 suppliments my immune system kicked up antibodies increased ifelt bad bc of that (herxing) yet my lyme symtoms got better. Im marching forward on this path. Let you know if i die lol
How about garlic or allimax. If antibiotics kill and wreck the immune system, increase candida and lower vital force, isn't garlic/allimax taken long term more helpful. If the rife machine really helpful or just a con?
I used to be very sick with major allergies, asthma and a bacterial lung infection that would not go away. I started taking very HIGH doses of vitamin D3. I took 20,000 IU to 30,000 IU per day and I not only killed off my chronic lung infection, but I cured my allergies and my asthma completely! Now I take 10,000 IU per day and will for the rest of my life. I got tested for Vitamin D3 and it was only 24, now I am up to 89 (normal) range. If I stop taking D3 all my allergies and asthma come back
@bharrod but do you have Lyme Disease? If not, your experience may be relevant for a "normal" person. Lyme changes everything. I did the same as Brad2070, above. INSTANT improvement on D3 supplement, then far worse. Explains eye probs as well-edema/corneal dystrophy, photosensitivity. I quit. My bldwk shows low again. Seeing doc next Wed., & will suggest MP. I have asthma & allergies - gutting my house for hidden mold ended severe/chronic states. Not easy answer! MP makes sense to & for ME.
very interesting. thank you. I have lyme and have found that, whenever I try taking vitamin D supplements I get an adverse reaction. I need to look into this a little more I think
When I think about the kind of money a typical yuppy (young urban professional) James Kim earned at his CNET job and his ivory towered academic technoid intellect and fascination with toys and gadgets, with no sense for patterns of the earth, I can't help but feel the same cynicism to the "medical community". You want to know if vitamin D works to keep you immune from illnesses? Get a suntan in the summer, pop 5000 iu D-3 daily all Winter, pay attention to how you feel and STFU.
Vitamin D suppresses your immune system hence why you feel better, yet the L-form bacteria are still thriving. watch and learn what happens with VitD and your receptors...
@fetymann You are a liar whose trained to parrot lies and probably gets paid big bucks to lie. Keep repeating boldfaced lies long enough and someone will believe them. I took my own advice and survived a long never getting sick once all winter spending time outdoors in the cold and rain subjecting myself to crowded buses risking transmission and never feeling better. vitamin D and vitamin C doesn't suprress the immune system it makes IT Makes the immune STRONGER!
You're missing the science of it... 25-D inactivates rather than activates its native receptor - the Vitamin D receptor. 1,25 D Activates the receptors.. low levels of 25-D are frequently noted in patients with autoimmune disease, leading to a current consensus that a deficiency of the secosteroid may contribute to the autoimmune disease process. However, Marshall and team explain that these low levels of 25-D are a result, rather than a cause, of the disease process.
since being a healthy person you won't be feeling the effects until you're old. Just quit yer bitchin and watch this and you'll understand how your receptors work. This is microbiology at it's finest.
@bemmy69 D isn't the only thing that will help protect you.... did you take any other supplements? did you eat healthy complete meals? did you avoid excess sugar and substitute sugars? etc....? Some people think that when they have some yogurt with their breakfast they're doing something healthy. Little do they know... there's a LOT more to it.
@fetymann no i eat ok just didnt notice much immune boosting effects from it but noticed increased energy for sport , i feel the sunshine in the summer is more effective than oral doses
@bemmy69 yes, the sun is best for sure. BUT you have to live at the right latitude. It is said that pretty mush above mid-California the UVB doesn't penetrate the atmosphere well enough. So that's why Dr. Mercola sells UV lights. Other than that supplementation is the next best option. Speaking of. Fermented cod liver oil is best. Read on westonaprice . org
@fetymann yeah, there's a lot more to it - like avoiding the VIRUS, too! Still hear my grandmother's voice to my best-things-in-life-are-dirty cousin: Wash your hands, Randy! Wash your hands! LOL Avoiding processed simple sugars PERIOD, getting enough REST. No magic! Balance. Lifestyle - good habits. I've had Lyme 36 yrs - bit/bull's eye rash @13. Dx 3 yrs ago. I'm still alive, no perm damage, let alone neuro, I worked full time 22 yrs - gotta be doing SOMETHING right. I'm still ALIVE!
When the T cell recognizes foreign molecules with its T cell receptor (TCR) it sends activation signals to the VDR gene. The VDR gene now starts the production of VDR. VDR binds vitamin D in the T cell and becomes activated. Vitamin D bound to activated VDR goes back into the cell nucleus and activates the gene for PLC-gamma1. PLC-gamma1 is produced and the T cells can get started. Credit: Professor of Immunology, Carsten Geisler
That is why I told you to google it. Educate yourself on the basics of the immune system such as "T Cells" and what happens to an individual with lowered t-cell count, does AIDS ring a bell?
This whole "you don't feel sick because Vit D has lowered your immune system and you don't have symptoms" is some real comedy.
How about this instead: the Marshall protocol relies heavily on the anti-inflammatory actions of Minocycline to reduce symptoms, hence the reason they relapse after stopping
ok, I'll be a little more specific, did you miss the fact that the precursor of VitD (25-D) turns off the VDR? hence the lessening of immunopathological reaction when taking vitamin D, aka, there isn't the die off of bacteria. Not everyone relapses, many have succeeded with the MP.
@fetymann Does not "turn off" VDR. Again: When the naïve T cell recognizes foreign molecules with its T cell receptor (TCR) it sends activation signals to the VDR gene. The VDR gene now starts the production of VDR. VDR binds vitamin D in the T cell and becomes activated. Vitamin D bound to activated VDR goes back into the cell nucleus and activates the gene for PLC-gamma1. PLC-gamma1 is produced and the T cells can get started. Google: Carsten Geisler, Vitamin D t-cells. Don't be stupid.
vitamin d takes MONTHS to circulate through your system. most doctors will tell you to save money and not do the test until three months of supplementation. so unless you were on the Vitamin D for an extensive amount of time you can't just say " oh i was on it for a week and it did nothing "... and btw, just because it didn't help you, doesn't mean it was hurting you.
There seems to be much controversy over the MP--yet truth be told only those who have invested their time using the MP and have seen results, as compared to other treatments that have been used and failed-- would have the insight to comment on the protocol. On the protocol now for two years with a chronic case of Sarcoidosis, I have seen healing of a condition that I have suffered with now for more than 30 years.
The medical community is NOT "divided"... the vast majority of "medical professionals" that push the mp do not have medical degrees. DONT BELIEVE THE LIES. Trevor Marshall is an electrical engineer with no medical experience - thats the real controversy.
Everybody is different, with different systems. Thus, the MP may work for one and not the other. Someone is ALLERGIC to APPLES someone else is not. Medicine tends to fit people into a cookie cutter approach while disregarding BLOOD TYPES, ETHNIC TYPE even GENDER and AGE types. It makes a difference in wha the treatment should be.
Just as a note, i don't think the bacteria themselves actually affect the D levels directly. I think Trevor and the gang used to think the bacteria were involved in actively converting 25-D into 1,25-D but in fact the process is much more complicated. What the bacteria do is secrete capnine and other substances that block the VDR and "hide" from the immune system, preventing the VDR from coding antimicrobial peptides that would otherwise be used to kill them.
Tuche ginariggio! I would love to see any peer reviewed works that support your comments RE: the bacterial capnine production & the binding of VDR, if you happen to have them.
The immune system's macrophage cells activate 25-D into 1,25-D which then activates a protein called cathelicidin which kills infective agents. So the high 1,25-D levels in Lyme patients is a sign that the immune system is doing its job. Lowering the precursers to 1,25-D would then ultimately lower your immune system's ability to kill the Lyme infections. An impaired immune system from low D levels would make you feel better because symptoms come from die off of infectious agents. Hmm... -Dr. C
I agree. I did the MP for over 2 years and didn't get any better. Since then I've started taking D supplements, and at first I'd get a herx reaction from taking D as my body was once again able to kill off infections. As my D levels have gotten higher again, the herx from taking D has gotten less, but I still notice it a bit as I'm not cured yet.
Vitamin D helps raise glutathione levels. Glutathione neutralizes all toxins. Herx detox reactions are a consequence of depleated glutathione. Rectal or IV glutathione can eliminate Herx detox symptoms within 20 minutes. Perhaps Lymes patients have such high 1,25-D3 because their body is trying to help raise its glutathione levels to combat the spirochetal and secondary infection's neuro-toxins. Perhaps another way to lower 1,25-D3 would be to increase body levels of glutathione?
@johnbcampise My lymes symptoms come on very strongly with vitamin D, fish oil and calcium and magnesium. I get a lot of relief from coconut and lard. My vitamin 25-D is low! I never had 1, 25-D was never tested. I think vitamin D is very dangerous.
@Catherine8raw thanks for your response, you might have a hidden B12 deficiency. You might need daily B12 shots for a week, then weekly for a month, then monthly shots.... Check out the book, "Could it Be B12?" available on amazon. I agree that taking D is dangerous if you don't take a high enough dose! Also, I agree that very low levels of D will make you feel better, but low D levels are not healthy.
@johnbcampise I got tested years ago for B12 via blood, and just a couple of weeks ago, it is in fact on the higher side of normal and always has been. My vitamin D showed deficient, but can I really take a 25 (OH) vitamin D test seriously? My folic acid is just above the reference range. All my plasma minerals are fine, my magnesium in RBC, is "just in" reference range. My diet has been extreme high meat, lower fat, high vegetables, untill lymes symptoms came on (numbness/ataxia etc).
I've heard that for some reason unknown to me, that it is very common and perhaps natural that when 25-dihydroxy-D3 levels are LOW, that 1,25-DH-D3 levels will be HIGH. And, that once we bring up the 25-DH-D3 levels to normal, that the 1,25-DH-D3 levels return to normal by themselves? Could someone comment on this please?
When 25-OH D levels are low, PTH levels rise, and this converts the 25-OH D that is present to 1-25-diOH Vit D. That explains it. And this confused me too for months until I learned of the scientific explanation.
Great. Thats called anecdotal evidence. So its scientifically irrelevant. There are a thousand other things that could have affected your health other than the vitamin d... environmental toxins, mercury, diet... STUDIES are designed to take these into account. Your personal observations are not.
I undferstand your point. However, I was just trying to point out that the 2000 I/U of Vitamin D3 i was taking before the MP Protocol did nothing to improve my health.
@glenn413333333a 2000 iu per day is not expected to help your condition. You likely need 20,000 iu or more per day so see improvement, bottom line blood levels of 150ng/ml for a ill person.
HE NEVER Claimed it to be a study..just made an observation.......So as a person who really has not OBSERVED any of it..you really seem to speculate,toxins on and on...why do you expect your speculations on THOUSANDS of other things to be taken seriously?
when a certian scientist in the 1800's noticed something he was laughed out of his profession....But semmelweis was right!!!HE NOTICED SOMTHING>>>> MOST SCIENTIFICALLY RELAVANT are noticed FIRST...then studied.
it does't become science until it is backed by statistical analysis. I'm sorry many of you don't understand this. perhaps you could take a course at your local community college on basic science or attend some of the free lectures by various professors at your local universities. any involvement you could have with science would point you in the right direction at this point.
@glenn413333333a 2000iu of D daily is not a high dose. 5000iu is an adequate dose daily for someone who is well, for someone who is sick a high dose may need to be as high as 20,000 iu per day continually or even higher short term. Fat people need more D than skinny people too. The bottom line is the blood test. 50 ng/ml is minimum for a well person, an ill person may need upwards of 150 ng/ml.
If 2 of the components of the MP involve 1)giving a tetracyclince antibiotic 2)avoiding Vit D - if someone gets a response, how do they know it's not just from tne antibiotic?
Most MP users have taken loads of antibiotics for years with only marginal results. That was me. On the MP, the antibiotics that never worked before, work AMAZINGLY well at about 1/8 the dose.
Interesting that you claim that most MP users have taken loads of antibiotics for years, when it isn't standard therapy so isn't it a coincidence that only these people would have found out about the MP protocol? Too bad there is not ONE study that shows benefit of lowering Vit D levels in the chronic diseases it's supposed to help.
There is not o1 shread of evidence in favor ott he vit D part of Marshall's protocol. All the evidence supports the opposite.I renew my challenge to please present any evidence; there is none.Even Dr. Marshall can't produce any evidence in favor of the vitamin D part of his theory.However the 2nd part of the protocol involves treating sarcoid & other diseases with antibiotics. That has nothing to do with vit D and there is some evidence for that. Robert Baker MD
I really understand what you're saying here Robert and it does make sense. I can tell you this from my personal experience. When I started on the MP (I'm not using antibiotics) using herbal antimicrobials etc which I've been using for years now in HIGH DOSES
Using very HIGH DOSES on and off, I noticed that just taking smaller amounts I was getting much bigger die off reactions. And before it was like I was going in circles with my Lyme Disease and now it seems to be going away to an extent that I have never experienced in the past. I do have a ways to go, like I said I still have major problems but am much better.
@LymeDiseasePublisher Me, as well - went through 5 wks of 2/day IV's of Rocephin, &my doc (wellness doctor) conferred w/ID "specialist" & regurgitated CDC garbage - "you're done! If you still have symptoms, it's like Syphilis - if you had drop-foot before treatment, after cure, you will still have drop-foot." 2 yrs later a PA tested me, &I was STILL POS. for Lyme. Started doxy - herx'd 2 mos., 13 mos later, I know I still have it. Western Blot confirmed. I'm trying MP next.
Just a theory:: minocycline MAY help or cure sarcoid. The idea that Vitamin D hurts it is untrue and disproved. Has anyone tried an alternate protocol in which they only take the antibiotic.
I didn't claim I was the first one. But I have not seen anyone with this comment on this blog, so I think the people who are endangering their life by not correcting their vitamin D deficiency should know about it.
I'm not sure how you can make such categorical statements. I've been on the MP (a modified version) for about 6 months. By the Vitamin D advocates information I should be dead no? I strictly avoid Vitamin D foods, supplements, most sun and take Benicar. I am not taking antibiotics but am taking herbal and other so called "natural" antimicrobials.
Doesn't really help to make a ridiculous statement. There are people of all ages who are deficient of vit. D, they are not dead, just sick.Maybe the Benicar is benefiting you.
Okay. So if that's the case how could thousands of others using the MP who have STRICTLY avoided Vitamin D for years and have recovered from very serious so called "incurable" illness??? I'm trying to see both angles here but really don't see the sense in what you're saying.
I appreciate your fairness.How do u know 1000's have recovered?Why havent the figures been published? U are relying on what other people have told you without evidence. And what are these incurable illnesses?Certainly not sarcoid, I've seen cures without these treatments
If you are family with specific info, I would appreciate to hear it, I sincerely mean this.
And unlike others, I don't hold it against Dr. Marshall that he's not an MD, Nathan Pritikin was an inventor!
Robert, I guess it's hard to prove what "real" evidence is. On the flip side of the coin I have read thousands of testimonies for Vitamin D. I have no absolute proof. I can tell you before I started my modified version of the MP my health was very bad. Now (only 6 months later) I'm working out relatively hard at least 5 times per week (I wasn't able to do this for about 7 years) and feeling better overall. I'm far from normal but it's only been several months.
An MD means basically nothing to me. Aside from if I need some sort of testing or medication that I can't get anyhwere else. Like I said in a previous post the vast majority of medical professions have done absolutely nothing for chronic illness of the past several decades. I may not know much but consider myself to know more than most of them. After all I've been to several all over this country and wasted tons of money and energy in hopes for some help. Nothing.
other components of the Protocol may be benefiting u greatly..I can tell u that it's not the avoidance of D.& I don't doubt your experience, but "testimonies", when investigated, have often been found many times 2 b non-factual.Did u ever ask Dr. Marshall why he didn't pubish some case histories with information & chest xray or CT scan results?BTW,if avoidance of D means u've given up dairy foods, that alone is very beneficial and can help fatigue, I've seen it in 1000s of patients.RB
Robert, how can you tell me it has nothing to do with the avoidance of Vit D? As far as Trevor Marshall is concerned I never asked him anything. I just tried to make a chance decision based on several things I've looked at and the theory behind the MP seemed to make sense. This is how things are when you're desperate sometimes, it's do or die...or suffer and wish you were dead. And for the milk, I do use some unfortifieed milk sporadically even know I've never done well with it personally. .
Exactly. People will say they've been abducted by aliens or that Jesus "healed" them. Medicine is based on research. Simply put, there is no evidence that the Marshall Protocol is anything other than a "snake oil"cure. You might as well wash your body in "elopticaly energized soap" or "clean your energy pores." I trust statistics. Not a testimony.
Good analogy. I've experienced remarkable improvements against Sarcoidosis over the past few years. A long downward spiral for which most 'docs' had no answers, was turned into a slow upward spiral of improving health thanks to the MP.
YOUR SITUATION MAY VARY - do your homework as this commentator suggests.
This is mainstream propaganda to discredit the REAL doctors and research community who found that the solution to most of life threatening diseases is, well, FREE, ie...VITAMIN D...through sunshine!! Can you imagine what this will do to the multi billion (nowadays its multi-trillion!) pharma corporations and so called health care hospitals?? Without much ado, I would just ignore this Marshall protocol ( read the similarity to WW II Marshall protocol!) and get on with Vitamin D3.
Do you have data to support his claim? I would also point out that only a few years ago most doctors "knew" that ulcers could NOT be caused by bacteria. This has been the sad history of most medical innovation and discovery.
Have you actually researched the MP? I'm living it and thankfully I have been under treatment by doctors more scientifically founded and open-minded than your comment indicates you are.
I made factual statements, and I get a personal attack. Have u heard of any of the hundreds of research papers that have been published each year (possibly thousands) that show the inverse relationship between D levels and various diseases? Yes, I have researched the MP. If u want 2 believe in a theory that has not 1e shred of supporting evidence, and in fact all the evidence goes against it, then fine. I wish you well Robert Baker MD
A personal attack? Because I asked you some questions? Come on. Please be serious.
You say: "measurement of 1-25-dihyroxyvitamin D is totally worthless." That's a huge claim - based on what evidence?
The charge against those "thousands of papers" as I understand it, is that they disregard 1.25D and look only at 25D. And they fail to consider the inter-relationships between the two.
Pre-conceived ideas blocking the path to new conclusions?
tell me one thing - if the science backing MP is in fact true and those with chronic diseases have all this l-form bacteria they can't fight off, why does this happen to these people and not everyone else? what do some people get affected by this bacteria and others don't? isn't that the real cure?
Why do some people get cancer and others not? How about multiple sclerosis? Allergies? Who knows? Many unanswered questions. Just because some questions remain unanswered, does not mean that we do not still have small pieces of the truth.
you really just repeated my question.. all i'm saying is that when one suddenly goes from the picture of health to having chronic diseases like this, there must be something that tipped it in that direction, and finding that and turning that around is the REAL cure. wearing glasses and avoiding the sun like the plague and eliminating foods with D3 (in addition to foods you're already avoiding like gluten, dairy, etc. due to your chronic illness) is not the answer.
i'm already on a severely restricted diet and avoiding even MORE foods, PLUS the sun (therefore, anywhere outside my house) would be enough to make me commit suicide. there's got to be a way to figure out what tipped the immune system the wrong way.
i've tried many different options and have spent thousands of dollars on research, dr's, so called "experts" etc. so far the modified version of the MP I'm doing has helped to some extent. there has been times when I thought something was severaly wrong while on this protocol but overall so far it seems to be working. there's many things that involve illness, ie, toxins, emf's, energy imbalance, emotional problems etc. if you ask me the main culprit is the microbial imbalance within us.
1)there is not 1 shred of evidence in any study that avidance of Vit D will help, in fact all the evidence says the opposite. 2)we don't know your symptoms so it is hard to comment specially on your case 3)sorry, i don't know what a die off reaction is 4)2000 U. D is not a high dose.Spending a lot of time in the sun doesn't mean anything,it's impossible to talk about your vit d without knowing a level.I am aware that the dx of lyme's can men a lot of things to a lot of people.
I just realized something. The title "Vitamin D Controversy and the Marshall Protocol" is a misnomer. There is no controversy, since there isn't a shread of evidence RE vitamin D and these diseases. No study, no published case reports even. Nothing, zero, zip.
EXACTLY. The marshall protocol is a sort of "religion" ... it has no scientific basis, but people within the movement have developed their own "language" to describe reality. One of these is that there is a "controversy" about vit d... which there is not.
I studied religion in school... Its a religion. Its not a scientific theory.
Vitamin D suppresses your immune system hence why you feel better, yet the L-form bacteria are still thriving. watch and learn what happens with VitD and your receptors...
Vitamin D suppresses your immune system hence why you feel better, yet the L-form bacteria are still thriving. watch and learn what happens with VitD and your receptors...
it's like we have alien life forms living in us fighting for their survival and have many ways to insure that they indeed do. remember we have living things inside of us that produce very specific toxins/chemicals to hinder and avoid our immune system and on top of that they have several ways to protect themselves and go, in some cases completely undetected
That's an important question for sure. My personal thinking is it depends upon which bacteria we are in contact with and what our individual susceptibilities are. Sometimes we "catch" the flu when we are exposed to it, other times we don't. We somehow fight it off. Still much to learn about our immune systems there is!
I think your wise to ask? Is it because some have lower saturated fat diets. Fats are antimicrobial properties that kill viruses/bacteria/fungi. Palmitc acid kills Candida albicans. Beef dripping, coconut, lamb fats, maybe butter, Ghee, are eaten less these days, alot of people are careful of fats, but these help fat soluble vits get in and help Ca go in, keep phosphorus lower. I think fats have a critical role not considered in lymes.
I had very low levels of vitamin 2 having both tests done. Having lyme and depriving it of vitamin D seems absurd, I have increased my vitamin D and feel better because of it. Depriving the body of vitamin D makes zero sense, vitamin d deficiency is at epedimic levels and so is lyme...what is the connection.
If both 25D and 1,25D were low you probably don't have a th1 disease and so what has been said is not relavent to you. Its best to see a doctor to find out why your D levels are low.
Your comments about the test are a bit off, but you have the right idea here. For years, D2 and D3 have both been tests in the 25-(OH)-vitamin D form, a metabolite of both types. The problem lies in that the benefits of D are only present in the D3 form. New methods of LC/MS/MS can differentiate between the two.
The problem of the past was that the values were artificially high for vitamin D because D2 was too much of the overall value, thus the benefits of D were not present in those indivs.
My boyfriend has chronic fatigue and Marshall Protocol has helped him to get better, I'm a scientist so I scrutinised the MP heavily, in the end I think results speak louder then anything. I think that like any medical treatment you need to be cautious and follow the instructions properly to achieve the best results. I'm sure this treatment won't work for everyone, but if you think you may benefit then do some research and talk to your doctor.
Know nothing about Lyme disease but one problem from too much vitamin D might be it raises blood levels of calcium too high(hypercalcemia). Which could be reduce by reducing calcium intake. Anyway I assume anyone doing this alternative treatment is getting blood calcium levels tested?
Thanks for the information. Chronic illnesses are so individual the pathogens are slippery and very good at mutating once they reach a certain level in the body. Since I am just beginning to self-educate about the MP I am once again feeling overwhelmed by yet ANOTHER controversial WHAT NOT TO EAT..WHAT NOT TO DO...etc. There are days when I feel like I live in the dark ages.( no pun intended regarding the sun issue) If it works for me,I will let you know.
Thanks for the information Bryan! My feeling about the MP is like a lot of other lyme treatments, one has to figure out what works for oneself and sometimes there are pieces of information that are extremely helpful without embarking on the whole enchilada so to speak. I went off soy and reduced my Vit D intake (where not naturally occurring as both are added to so many foods) and I have found improvement.
My holistic doc agrees with the Vit D125 testing, and with the elimination of soy.
Dr Marshall may not be a medical doctor but he has 2 PhD only one in engineering the other in biomedical science. He has been involved in medical research most of his career and has help men without testes and women who delivered premature babies because of an LH deficiency. He is a professor at an Australian university and has written peer reviewed articles for medical textbooks on vitamin D. His research coincides with many leaders in this field including Dr J.S. Adams and Dr O Sharma.
Yes, the severe herxing is a problem. I had severe herxing as well. You can read my story in my book, The Top 10 Lyme Disease Treatments. In some cases I stopped the protocol for months believing it had damaged me. But eventually got back on and "broke through."
My wife got MUCH sicker on the MP. 4 years later... her health still suffers from MP.
The biggest controversy is the dogmatic way doctors and moderaters pummelled those very ill persons who were in extreme Herx mode and were just asking questions. "Just tough it out" they were told.
Hard Herxing is now thought by many to be potentially VERY harmful!...Causing permanent brain damage, and might be the reason some people experience EXTREME treatment failure.
The Chronic Lyme community knows a LOT about mainstream medicine's powers that be who trash those who even BELIEVE Chronic Lyme is more than a "VERY RARE condition" I have defended MP to doctor's in the past. However it is the heavy handed simple minded followers of his MP that will PREVENT any prizes he may deserve.
MP followers are actually rather cult-like in their belief.
Insisting MP is a cure all for Chronic Lyme and Mis-diagnosed Auto-immune infectious diseases is like prescribing a single dosed Beta-Blocker to every Cardiac patient. Some will be helped... but some will worsen... and some will DIE!
The MP proponents are an interesting study in human behavior. But they certainly are not helping much in combating the Medical/Pharma research cabal that is keeping Chronically infected sufferers ill.
MP proponents COULD be a great asset... but it is their cult-like insistence that there is only one route across the ocean that harms the ill and discredits others on the same side in this fight.
I find that problematic workers and proffesional people seldom have a problem with competence... and incompetence can often be addressed with training. It is the issues of CHARACTER and or wisdom that are the MOST problematic.
MP proponents would serve "Saint Trevor" better if they'd just CHILL.
It sounds to me like you have an axe to grind. If you spent some time reading the scientific findings that are the foundation of the MP rather than finding fault with it's "cultlike" followers (ridiculous assertion) I doubt that you would be so glib. Dr. Marshall has unearthed a scientific discovery that has been there for all to see. He will eventually win the Nobel Prize for this discovery....few disagree on this.
I agree. The MP is extremely controversial -- the main controversy being his use of the word "cure". I have never heard of anyone -- not one single person -- who has stopped the drug/antibiotic protocol, and remained well, even those with sarcoidosis. But perhaps they are out there?
I personally don't like Marshall, but am forced to embrace his science. I would like to point out, that there may be other ways to activate potent autocrine regulators which can do the job of promoting intracellular antimicrobial transcription. VDR is one type of receptor.
The Marshall Protocol is a pretty radical solution. Its replacing the two vitamin D's with a drug that works similarly to them, but it is not D. Its not quite the same as not having any D, or being against D. Vitamin D competes with the primary drug they use for some of the same receptors and kicks it out. Thats why you have to avoid it on the treatment. They don't make that very clear. Still experimental, phase II for some things, phase III for Sarcoidosis now.
They do say that when you're walking a straight line, you slightly turn left, so you're never actually walking a straight line, but end up walking in circles.
Decades of trillions of dollars on research studies and tons of "peer reviewed reputable journals" where many old boys club editors publish only what they want published has produced nothing in the way of cures go. Shame! Marshall (molecular scientist) has figured it out and some "medical doctors" are plainly jealous. I, like you Bryan, have seen amazing results on the MP. Go to bacteriality and marshallprotocol
>"I'm not a doctor"
>I'm in a cupboard.
keeperofthecheese 1 week ago
AROSE!!!
cuchulainn1967 1 month ago
MARSHALL PROTOCOL KILLED MY AUNT!! DO NOT FOLLOW THIS PLAN OR PROMOTE IT IN ANY WAY!!! DOCTORS DO NOT SUPPORT IT!!!
My Aunt followed the Marshall Protocol to a T. She had drapes over her windows to block out all the sunlight and vitamin D, she regularly took the pills Dr. Marshall suggested and as a result her disease became worse. She had chronic fatigue, but she could at least come out for a few hours a day to shop, have lunch or see a movie. After MARSHALL Protocol for 3 diligent years s
cypoole 1 month ago
Ozone shots
kroovyandcal 1 month ago
Electromedicine/Rife machines, interesting read but for me & what I have seen on your tube, no one seems to have completely recovered from lymes via these devices.Ticks were there with the hunter gatherers, can you imagine them with $12K biophoton device with a McDonalds donut/happy meal, homeopathic remedies with Ledum 1M x3 daily OR rife machines, electricuting the F*uck out of bugs? or BEEF DRIPPING OR SIMILAR& Few herbs, grasses, acorns, chestnuts, berries, roots, meat, fish, seafood, nuts
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
@Catherine8raw what about extra virgin coconut oil? it's supposed to be really good for you
starsweet4 1 year ago
@starsweet4 Yes, but when I was in a mess with my lymes, I tried this for a while and it just did not have the same effect as fatty meat. Although fatty meat from grass fed animals is a sensible choice, not the grain fed animals which provide alot of saturated fats (obese animals). Teasel root (found in UK) has been excellent. I do not take the alcohol but I chew the root. As for Coconut oil, nature doesn't offer it in the UK for a reason. It is good to consider what has nature provided me.
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
If you decide to kick ass & want any other advice or think the beef dripping has worked I am here & interested to hear from you. If you have die off reactions & want to swear & kill me for suggesting you go on beef dripping, take milk thistle, dandelion, burdock root, more lard, water, marshmallow, contact me later, you will be OK. Within 3 weeks to months, you'll walk (ataxia, numbness, crying will go ). No veg oil, it counteracts beef fat. sufferers can talk to me freely, I am here to learn
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
I called my lymes bacteria Harry, I called the house spider Freddy, if the environment is right Harry will be living with you for a long time, if you don't like him, don't call him a bastard or little devil, he is alot older than U - billions of years old, so he aint taking no for an answer, just be nice. GET RID OF HIS FOOD, THE FUNGUS! BEEF DRIPPING KILLS OF THE FUNGUS/CANDIDA ALBICANS! A study shows this, & don't forget to wave goodbye to Harry, he will not be detectable via microscope!
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
@Catherine8raw Hi - are you saying that we need to kill all fungus to get rid of Lyme? Are you saying to eat mostly beef to kill the fungus? Thank you in advance for your clarification.
Ncyim 8 months ago
Comment removed
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
Yeah electricute lymes/candida but lard is like a nuke, it is the king of killers. Herbs/homeopathy. electricity/light is laughable compared to beef lard, NATURAL KILLER CELLS GO UP! Throw your veg oil in bin. Neurotoxins are most of the time the mycotoxins, the acetylaldehyde, the BURN! Take psysium husks to grab hold of the bad guys in your gut, it will get to all your pockets and show them the exit sign, take fenugreek for your lymphatic system, take probiotics FOR THE AFTERMATH,
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
Comment removed
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
So if very low D levels OR very high D levels would make you feel better, why choose low levels except as a misunderstanding that feeling better means you are healthier. Those in hospice care on their death bed refuse to drink water, and hospice workers advise family not to force them to drink. This is because severe dehydration is a pain reliever. Ok fine, they are dying, let's ease their pain with dehydration. But if you are not on your death bed, why would you use dehydration for pain relief?
johnbcampise 1 year ago
I think those who have taken D and felt worse weren't taking enough. Taking D without monitoring blood levels of 25OHD is irresponsible. I have patients taking 8000iu per day but their blood levels are only 35! So we up them to 16,000 per day and they might get up to 60 and finally start feeling better. Having very low D levels does not kill you, in fact it might help someone with a chronic illness like Lyme to feel better because it lowers immune mediated herx reactions.
johnbcampise 1 year ago
@johnbcampise maybe, maybe not. My doc monitored, and I started at 14. It took hands full of D3/day for a year to get mine up, and I had immediate improvement, and then got even worse over time. Like many LD sufferers, I've become walking encyclopedia & can talk on docs' level on some topics. When I read some info on MP, based on my own body & experience, it made sense. Esp. eye probs. My wellness doc is my PARTNER. I trust he'll work w/me & find solution... in time. I'm asking him re MP.
txsherrie 1 year ago
@txsherrie, thanks for your response. It would help me if you can: what was your 25OH-D blood level after one year when you say your level was "up?" And, what was the dosage of D that you were taking for a year when you say you were taking hands full? Thanks.
johnbcampise 1 year ago
@johnbcampise Sure! As you know, I started at 14. I took 50Kmg first dose, then 8K/day for 6mos., and I was only up to 45, doc wanted 50-100, pref. 65. Upped it to 50K once/wk & 8k/day - end of yr, was up to 65. Drink LOTS of milk, am too fair to do sun even 10 min, have 400mg in multi, & quit taking D reg when my house burned 8/25/09. PA said it was "low" last mo., but didn't give # . I see doc nxt wk 8/25 & will ask - esp to address MP. Doc takes 5K/day & gets min of 10-20 min/day sun.
txsherrie 1 year ago
@txsherrie Thanks! I'm not sure why doc let you go so long between blood tests. Since you have a major chronic illness, you should have taken 50K per day until your blood was up to 150ng/ml (should have taken 3 weeks). (There's no known side effects under 200 ng/ml) Then drop to 20K per day and keep retesting at 3 week intervals to see how much you need to take daily to keep you at 150 ng/ml. The very slow increase in your D levels over 1 year must have been agonizing for your body.
johnbcampise 1 year ago
@johnbcampise I read something that made "layman's sense" to me - want to ask: It was stating that Vt. D is NOT a vitamin, but hormone. Vit. are something we have to ingest, hormones are something we produce, and w/sun, we produce D. Also said supplementing causes body to lower production (think cortisone suppressing adrendals, etc.). True? Yes? No?
txsherrie 1 year ago
@txsherrie Vit D is hormone, but we cannot make it without ultraviolet B light. Supplementing does not inhibit vit D production in the skin as far as I know. The rate limiting step is ultraviolet A breaks down vit D in the skin, so we can only make so much in our skin. We can make a net total 20,000 to 30,000 iu of D in our skin each day if we have 20 min UV B light exposure. So 20-30k iu of D per day is a natural dose that we should all be getting for long term optimal health. From sun or supp.
johnbcampise 1 year ago
@txsherrie I showed to be deficient in 25(OH) vitamin D but not by loads because by the time the doctor tested I had been taking vitamin D3 and fermented cod liver oil. I know that lymes patients may have high 1,25 dehydroxy thingy bob... In your opinion is it dangerous and useless to supplement vitamin D3, whether one has lymes or not? I am a recovered chronic lymes patient. What is your opinion on omega 3/fish oils. I know they contain no vit D, but can low (NK)/high immune system other ways.
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
@Catherine8raw , thanks for your reply. I need to know what your actual blood test values were/are in order to have an opinion. As far as D3 supplementation is concerned, no one is 100% certain yet, not enough research. But it looks like high blood levels of 25OH-D are best for long term health in most. The problem with illness like Lymes is the over active immune system. Low D levels suppress immune sys., medium D levels boost it, super high D levels is best cause it keeps it in the middle.
johnbcampise 1 year ago
@johnbcampise Serum Vitamin D 46.8 nmol/L Where can I get a private test for 1, 25 (OH) vitamin D, and what could I tell my doctor for reasons of needing this test, when the 25 (OH) suppost to be the right kind.
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
@Catherine8raw I don't know. I recommend getting your blood levels of 25 (OH)-D to 150 ng/ml (375 nmol/L) for 6 months first. But get them there as quickly as you can by taking 50,000iu of D3 per day and test your blood levels every 2-3 weeks, then once at 150 ng/ml, back off the D and test your blood every month to keep your levels at 150 for 6 months minimum. The other major hidden deficiencies are B12, iodine, and omega 3/6 and saturated oil imbalances. All these play major roles in immunity.
johnbcampise 1 year ago
@Catherine8raw Also, the other hidden problem is vit A toxicity.There is evidence that too much vitamin A (or too little) will interfere with proper D function in the body. So, make sure to stay off all vit A (cod liver oil, liver, retinol palmitate, retinoic acid, etc.). Instead you can take as much beta carotene as you want (the precursor to vit A). Your body will make as much or little A as it needs from the BC. there is no known mechanism in the body for getting rid of high levels of vit A.
johnbcampise 1 year ago
@johnbcampise Western A. Price reccomended we all have good vitamin D and A. Beta carotene relys upon saturated fat to be converted into vitamin A. Cod liver oil these days seems to be full of the synthetic vitamin A, liver is good, but we must keep in balance. Vitamin A is crucial for our immune system and linings. 100g Liver once a week will prevent vitamin A deficiency, providing a big 28, 000IU of vit A. Vit A is a fat soluble vit, get rid of fats and you'll be depleted in A, D, E not good!
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
@Catherine8raw I'm not a doctor, so I'm trying to sort this all out just like you. Based on what I know now, if I was recovered from Lyme, I would want to supplement D3. Lyme is the reason I am considering reducing it - based on the MP. I take Omega fish oils. I seem to have benefited as an immune system modulator, but since it was part of my whole program, I'm depending on research more than experience. I'm not much help. Sorry.
txsherrie 1 year ago
@txsherrie How are you doing with lyme disease, are you getting anywhere? What were your mistakes and what were the best things you have done in your opinion. As for me, I still think fats are important. Teasel root and lapacho seem the best herbs, with artemisia. Although, on fat alone with teasel root, things were going perfect. I added aload of garlic and things that lowered my fats and again, symptoms came back.Grass fed animals/olive oil/veggies/wild meats/fish seem OK. Wild fruit didn't
Catherine8raw 1 year ago 2
"D levels are like a spring. The topmost pool is the calcium system. When it's full, D flows to pools below, cancer, heart disease, infection... You want D to increase natural antibiotics (AMPs) AND quell excess immune response. Is the AMP pool above the cytokine dampening pool? If so, 25D of 30 may be enough for innate immunity but not for preventing a cytokine storm that kills. Taking only 2k/day may risk death from a cytokine storm; explains why those with "high" D levels in 1918 died."
johnbcampise 1 year ago
I have an idea that may explain why some feel better with very low 25-D levels (below 15ng/ml), and why others with "high" D doses feel better: 25-D levels between 20 and 35 stimulate the immune system, increasing immune mediated inflammation (herx reactions). Dr Cannelli has written a theory that very high 25-D levels (50-80ng/ml) lower immune modulated inflammation, but medium levels increase it. So maybe both sides are right: get 25 D either really low, or really high, but not medium.
johnbcampise 1 year ago
Nope its true! I can only go by my own experiences I have use antibiotics and fluconazole with high doses of D and i feel good bc the D yet after a year my symptoms began to worsen. After removing D3 suppliments my immune system kicked up antibodies increased ifelt bad bc of that (herxing) yet my lyme symtoms got better. Im marching forward on this path. Let you know if i die lol
Brad2070 1 year ago
How about garlic or allimax. If antibiotics kill and wreck the immune system, increase candida and lower vital force, isn't garlic/allimax taken long term more helpful. If the rife machine really helpful or just a con?
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
I used to be very sick with major allergies, asthma and a bacterial lung infection that would not go away. I started taking very HIGH doses of vitamin D3. I took 20,000 IU to 30,000 IU per day and I not only killed off my chronic lung infection, but I cured my allergies and my asthma completely! Now I take 10,000 IU per day and will for the rest of my life. I got tested for Vitamin D3 and it was only 24, now I am up to 89 (normal) range. If I stop taking D3 all my allergies and asthma come back
bharrod 1 year ago
@bharrod but do you have Lyme Disease? If not, your experience may be relevant for a "normal" person. Lyme changes everything. I did the same as Brad2070, above. INSTANT improvement on D3 supplement, then far worse. Explains eye probs as well-edema/corneal dystrophy, photosensitivity. I quit. My bldwk shows low again. Seeing doc next Wed., & will suggest MP. I have asthma & allergies - gutting my house for hidden mold ended severe/chronic states. Not easy answer! MP makes sense to & for ME.
txsherrie 1 year ago
@bharrod it is believed that I might have lyme yes, although there is no affirmative test for it, I did test positive for 2 of the 3 markers for it.
bharrod 1 year ago
@bharrod it is believed that I might have lyme yes, although there is no affirmative test for it, I did test positive for 2 of the 3 markers for it.
bharrod 1 year ago
very interesting. thank you. I have lyme and have found that, whenever I try taking vitamin D supplements I get an adverse reaction. I need to look into this a little more I think
newgeorge 1 year ago
The Marshall Protocol has faild do to new vitamin D research. Vitamin D crucial to activating and deactivation the immune defenses.
NielsHaugstrup 2 years ago
When I think about the kind of money a typical yuppy (young urban professional) James Kim earned at his CNET job and his ivory towered academic technoid intellect and fascination with toys and gadgets, with no sense for patterns of the earth, I can't help but feel the same cynicism to the "medical community". You want to know if vitamin D works to keep you immune from illnesses? Get a suntan in the summer, pop 5000 iu D-3 daily all Winter, pay attention to how you feel and STFU.
sk9utube 2 years ago
Vitamin D suppresses your immune system hence why you feel better, yet the L-form bacteria are still thriving. watch and learn what happens with VitD and your receptors...
bacteriality . com/2008/05/07/mpintro/
fetymann 1 year ago
@fetymann You are a liar whose trained to parrot lies and probably gets paid big bucks to lie. Keep repeating boldfaced lies long enough and someone will believe them. I took my own advice and survived a long never getting sick once all winter spending time outdoors in the cold and rain subjecting myself to crowded buses risking transmission and never feeling better. vitamin D and vitamin C doesn't suprress the immune system it makes IT Makes the immune STRONGER!
sk9utube 1 year ago
You're missing the science of it... 25-D inactivates rather than activates its native receptor - the Vitamin D receptor. 1,25 D Activates the receptors.. low levels of 25-D are frequently noted in patients with autoimmune disease, leading to a current consensus that a deficiency of the secosteroid may contribute to the autoimmune disease process. However, Marshall and team explain that these low levels of 25-D are a result, rather than a cause, of the disease process.
fetymann 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
since being a healthy person you won't be feeling the effects until you're old. Just quit yer bitchin and watch this and you'll understand how your receptors work. This is microbiology at it's finest.
bacteriality . com/2008/05/07/mpintro/
fetymann 1 year ago
start that video at just before 18 mins. Understand how your receptors are turned on and off.
fetymann 1 year ago
whatever. I'm referring to ingesting 5000 IU D-3 in days where I don't get out in the sun.
sk9utube 1 year ago
@fetymann i took lots of vitamin d last winter and still got a bad case of the flue
bemmy69 1 year ago
@bemmy69 D isn't the only thing that will help protect you.... did you take any other supplements? did you eat healthy complete meals? did you avoid excess sugar and substitute sugars? etc....? Some people think that when they have some yogurt with their breakfast they're doing something healthy. Little do they know... there's a LOT more to it.
fetymann 1 year ago
@fetymann no i eat ok just didnt notice much immune boosting effects from it but noticed increased energy for sport , i feel the sunshine in the summer is more effective than oral doses
bemmy69 1 year ago
@bemmy69 yes, the sun is best for sure. BUT you have to live at the right latitude. It is said that pretty mush above mid-California the UVB doesn't penetrate the atmosphere well enough. So that's why Dr. Mercola sells UV lights. Other than that supplementation is the next best option. Speaking of. Fermented cod liver oil is best. Read on westonaprice . org
fetymann 1 year ago
@fetymann yeah, there's a lot more to it - like avoiding the VIRUS, too! Still hear my grandmother's voice to my best-things-in-life-are-dirty cousin: Wash your hands, Randy! Wash your hands! LOL Avoiding processed simple sugars PERIOD, getting enough REST. No magic! Balance. Lifestyle - good habits. I've had Lyme 36 yrs - bit/bull's eye rash @13. Dx 3 yrs ago. I'm still alive, no perm damage, let alone neuro, I worked full time 22 yrs - gotta be doing SOMETHING right. I'm still ALIVE!
txsherrie 1 year ago
@fetymann
Carsten Geisler & Vitamin D. Google it.
When the T cell recognizes foreign molecules with its T cell receptor (TCR) it sends activation signals to the VDR gene. The VDR gene now starts the production of VDR. VDR binds vitamin D in the T cell and becomes activated. Vitamin D bound to activated VDR goes back into the cell nucleus and activates the gene for PLC-gamma1. PLC-gamma1 is produced and the T cells can get started. Credit: Professor of Immunology, Carsten Geisler
roadwarrior1981 1 year ago
@roadwarrior1981 I don't know how to respond to that.. but ok.. be sure to check out bacteriality . com/2008/05/07/mpintro/
fetymann 1 year ago
That is why I told you to google it. Educate yourself on the basics of the immune system such as "T Cells" and what happens to an individual with lowered t-cell count, does AIDS ring a bell?
This whole "you don't feel sick because Vit D has lowered your immune system and you don't have symptoms" is some real comedy.
How about this instead: the Marshall protocol relies heavily on the anti-inflammatory actions of Minocycline to reduce symptoms, hence the reason they relapse after stopping
roadwarrior1981 1 year ago
ok, I'll be a little more specific, did you miss the fact that the precursor of VitD (25-D) turns off the VDR? hence the lessening of immunopathological reaction when taking vitamin D, aka, there isn't the die off of bacteria. Not everyone relapses, many have succeeded with the MP.
read:
bacteriality . com/2007/11/28/sense/
fetymann 1 year ago
@fetymann Does not "turn off" VDR. Again: When the naïve T cell recognizes foreign molecules with its T cell receptor (TCR) it sends activation signals to the VDR gene. The VDR gene now starts the production of VDR. VDR binds vitamin D in the T cell and becomes activated. Vitamin D bound to activated VDR goes back into the cell nucleus and activates the gene for PLC-gamma1. PLC-gamma1 is produced and the T cells can get started. Google: Carsten Geisler, Vitamin D t-cells. Don't be stupid.
roadwarrior1981 1 year ago
you are crayz man
felipe151184 2 years ago
vitamin d takes MONTHS to circulate through your system. most doctors will tell you to save money and not do the test until three months of supplementation. so unless you were on the Vitamin D for an extensive amount of time you can't just say " oh i was on it for a week and it did nothing "... and btw, just because it didn't help you, doesn't mean it was hurting you.
judderwocky 2 years ago
There seems to be much controversy over the MP--yet truth be told only those who have invested their time using the MP and have seen results, as compared to other treatments that have been used and failed-- would have the insight to comment on the protocol. On the protocol now for two years with a chronic case of Sarcoidosis, I have seen healing of a condition that I have suffered with now for more than 30 years.
Theflygirl56 2 years ago
The medical community is NOT "divided"... the vast majority of "medical professionals" that push the mp do not have medical degrees. DONT BELIEVE THE LIES. Trevor Marshall is an electrical engineer with no medical experience - thats the real controversy.
judderwocky 2 years ago
The vast majority of the medical professionals are idiots. Let's face it over the past
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
the science behind the NP is microbiology which Marshall knows. He's not just an electrical engineer off the street.
fetymann 1 year ago
marshall protocol is complete bs. its not real medicine.
judderwocky 2 years ago
continued..... over the past decades they've come up with virtually no answers for chronic disease. It's all about the money!
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
Everybody is different, with different systems. Thus, the MP may work for one and not the other. Someone is ALLERGIC to APPLES someone else is not. Medicine tends to fit people into a cookie cutter approach while disregarding BLOOD TYPES, ETHNIC TYPE even GENDER and AGE types. It makes a difference in wha the treatment should be.
Dr. Moo-Twahz, N.D.
Mutwasze 2 years ago
Just as a note, i don't think the bacteria themselves actually affect the D levels directly. I think Trevor and the gang used to think the bacteria were involved in actively converting 25-D into 1,25-D but in fact the process is much more complicated. What the bacteria do is secrete capnine and other substances that block the VDR and "hide" from the immune system, preventing the VDR from coding antimicrobial peptides that would otherwise be used to kill them.
ginariggio 2 years ago
Tuche ginariggio! I would love to see any peer reviewed works that support your comments RE: the bacterial capnine production & the binding of VDR, if you happen to have them.
phosphorolizer 2 years ago
Trevor is aware of that. and so is Amy Proal
bacteriality . com/2008/05/07/mpintro/
fetymann 1 year ago
The immune system's macrophage cells activate 25-D into 1,25-D which then activates a protein called cathelicidin which kills infective agents. So the high 1,25-D levels in Lyme patients is a sign that the immune system is doing its job. Lowering the precursers to 1,25-D would then ultimately lower your immune system's ability to kill the Lyme infections. An impaired immune system from low D levels would make you feel better because symptoms come from die off of infectious agents. Hmm... -Dr. C
johnbcampise 2 years ago 3
I agree. I did the MP for over 2 years and didn't get any better. Since then I've started taking D supplements, and at first I'd get a herx reaction from taking D as my body was once again able to kill off infections. As my D levels have gotten higher again, the herx from taking D has gotten less, but I still notice it a bit as I'm not cured yet.
stormthelantern 1 year ago
Vitamin D helps raise glutathione levels. Glutathione neutralizes all toxins. Herx detox reactions are a consequence of depleated glutathione. Rectal or IV glutathione can eliminate Herx detox symptoms within 20 minutes. Perhaps Lymes patients have such high 1,25-D3 because their body is trying to help raise its glutathione levels to combat the spirochetal and secondary infection's neuro-toxins. Perhaps another way to lower 1,25-D3 would be to increase body levels of glutathione?
johnbcampise 2 years ago 4
@johnbcampise My lymes symptoms come on very strongly with vitamin D, fish oil and calcium and magnesium. I get a lot of relief from coconut and lard. My vitamin 25-D is low! I never had 1, 25-D was never tested. I think vitamin D is very dangerous.
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
Comment removed
johnbcampise 1 year ago
@Catherine8raw thanks for your response, you might have a hidden B12 deficiency. You might need daily B12 shots for a week, then weekly for a month, then monthly shots.... Check out the book, "Could it Be B12?" available on amazon. I agree that taking D is dangerous if you don't take a high enough dose! Also, I agree that very low levels of D will make you feel better, but low D levels are not healthy.
johnbcampise 1 year ago
@johnbcampise I got tested years ago for B12 via blood, and just a couple of weeks ago, it is in fact on the higher side of normal and always has been. My vitamin D showed deficient, but can I really take a 25 (OH) vitamin D test seriously? My folic acid is just above the reference range. All my plasma minerals are fine, my magnesium in RBC, is "just in" reference range. My diet has been extreme high meat, lower fat, high vegetables, untill lymes symptoms came on (numbness/ataxia etc).
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
and this is why i am not busting my head to be in medical school lol yay chemistry!
ninthguardian9 2 years ago
I've heard that for some reason unknown to me, that it is very common and perhaps natural that when 25-dihydroxy-D3 levels are LOW, that 1,25-DH-D3 levels will be HIGH. And, that once we bring up the 25-DH-D3 levels to normal, that the 1,25-DH-D3 levels return to normal by themselves? Could someone comment on this please?
-Dr. John B. Campise, D.C.
johnbcampise 2 years ago
When 25-OH D levels are low, PTH levels rise, and this converts the 25-OH D that is present to 1-25-diOH Vit D. That explains it. And this confused me too for months until I learned of the scientific explanation.
Robert Baker MD
rcbaker200 2 years ago
And btw, before I was using the MP I was on high doses of Vitamin D (2000 IU Daily) and spending lots of time in the sun here in Vegas.
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
Great. Thats called anecdotal evidence. So its scientifically irrelevant. There are a thousand other things that could have affected your health other than the vitamin d... environmental toxins, mercury, diet... STUDIES are designed to take these into account. Your personal observations are not.
judderwocky 2 years ago
I undferstand your point. However, I was just trying to point out that the 2000 I/U of Vitamin D3 i was taking before the MP Protocol did nothing to improve my health.
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
@glenn413333333a 2000 iu per day is not expected to help your condition. You likely need 20,000 iu or more per day so see improvement, bottom line blood levels of 150ng/ml for a ill person.
johnbcampise 1 year ago
HE NEVER Claimed it to be a study..just made an observation.......So as a person who really has not OBSERVED any of it..you really seem to speculate,toxins on and on...why do you expect your speculations on THOUSANDS of other things to be taken seriously?
when a certian scientist in the 1800's noticed something he was laughed out of his profession....But semmelweis was right!!!HE NOTICED SOMTHING>>>> MOST SCIENTIFICALLY RELAVANT are noticed FIRST...then studied.
bolognabreath 2 years ago
it does't become science until it is backed by statistical analysis. I'm sorry many of you don't understand this. perhaps you could take a course at your local community college on basic science or attend some of the free lectures by various professors at your local universities. any involvement you could have with science would point you in the right direction at this point.
judderwocky 2 years ago
@glenn413333333a 2000iu of D daily is not a high dose. 5000iu is an adequate dose daily for someone who is well, for someone who is sick a high dose may need to be as high as 20,000 iu per day continually or even higher short term. Fat people need more D than skinny people too. The bottom line is the blood test. 50 ng/ml is minimum for a well person, an ill person may need upwards of 150 ng/ml.
johnbcampise 1 year ago
If 2 of the components of the MP involve 1)giving a tetracyclince antibiotic 2)avoiding Vit D - if someone gets a response, how do they know it's not just from tne antibiotic?
rcbaker200 2 years ago
Most MP users have taken loads of antibiotics for years with only marginal results. That was me. On the MP, the antibiotics that never worked before, work AMAZINGLY well at about 1/8 the dose.
LymeDiseasePublisher 2 years ago
Interesting that you claim that most MP users have taken loads of antibiotics for years, when it isn't standard therapy so isn't it a coincidence that only these people would have found out about the MP protocol? Too bad there is not ONE study that shows benefit of lowering Vit D levels in the chronic diseases it's supposed to help.
rcbaker200 2 years ago
exactly... marshal protocol is a scam...he is an electrical engineer
judderwocky 2 years ago
There is not o1 shread of evidence in favor ott he vit D part of Marshall's protocol. All the evidence supports the opposite.I renew my challenge to please present any evidence; there is none.Even Dr. Marshall can't produce any evidence in favor of the vitamin D part of his theory.However the 2nd part of the protocol involves treating sarcoid & other diseases with antibiotics. That has nothing to do with vit D and there is some evidence for that. Robert Baker MD
rcbaker200 2 years ago
I really understand what you're saying here Robert and it does make sense. I can tell you this from my personal experience. When I started on the MP (I'm not using antibiotics) using herbal antimicrobials etc which I've been using for years now in HIGH DOSES
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
continued.....
Using very HIGH DOSES on and off, I noticed that just taking smaller amounts I was getting much bigger die off reactions. And before it was like I was going in circles with my Lyme Disease and now it seems to be going away to an extent that I have never experienced in the past. I do have a ways to go, like I said I still have major problems but am much better.
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
@LymeDiseasePublisher Me, as well - went through 5 wks of 2/day IV's of Rocephin, &my doc (wellness doctor) conferred w/ID "specialist" & regurgitated CDC garbage - "you're done! If you still have symptoms, it's like Syphilis - if you had drop-foot before treatment, after cure, you will still have drop-foot." 2 yrs later a PA tested me, &I was STILL POS. for Lyme. Started doxy - herx'd 2 mos., 13 mos later, I know I still have it. Western Blot confirmed. I'm trying MP next.
txsherrie 1 year ago
Comment removed
rcbaker200 2 years ago
Just a theory:: minocycline MAY help or cure sarcoid. The idea that Vitamin D hurts it is untrue and disproved. Has anyone tried an alternate protocol in which they only take the antibiotic.
Robert Baker MD
rcbaker200 2 years ago
Of course. You think you are the first one to think of this?
LymeDiseasePublisher 2 years ago
I didn't claim I was the first one. But I have not seen anyone with this comment on this blog, so I think the people who are endangering their life by not correcting their vitamin D deficiency should know about it.
Robert Baker MD
rcbaker200 2 years ago 2
I'm not sure how you can make such categorical statements. I've been on the MP (a modified version) for about 6 months. By the Vitamin D advocates information I should be dead no? I strictly avoid Vitamin D foods, supplements, most sun and take Benicar. I am not taking antibiotics but am taking herbal and other so called "natural" antimicrobials.
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
Doesn't really help to make a ridiculous statement. There are people of all ages who are deficient of vit. D, they are not dead, just sick.Maybe the Benicar is benefiting you.
rcbaker200 2 years ago
Okay. So if that's the case how could thousands of others using the MP who have STRICTLY avoided Vitamin D for years and have recovered from very serious so called "incurable" illness??? I'm trying to see both angles here but really don't see the sense in what you're saying.
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
I appreciate your fairness.How do u know 1000's have recovered?Why havent the figures been published? U are relying on what other people have told you without evidence. And what are these incurable illnesses?Certainly not sarcoid, I've seen cures without these treatments
If you are family with specific info, I would appreciate to hear it, I sincerely mean this.
And unlike others, I don't hold it against Dr. Marshall that he's not an MD, Nathan Pritikin was an inventor!
Robert Baker
rcbaker200 2 years ago
Robert, I guess it's hard to prove what "real" evidence is. On the flip side of the coin I have read thousands of testimonies for Vitamin D. I have no absolute proof. I can tell you before I started my modified version of the MP my health was very bad. Now (only 6 months later) I'm working out relatively hard at least 5 times per week (I wasn't able to do this for about 7 years) and feeling better overall. I'm far from normal but it's only been several months.
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
An MD means basically nothing to me. Aside from if I need some sort of testing or medication that I can't get anyhwere else. Like I said in a previous post the vast majority of medical professions have done absolutely nothing for chronic illness of the past several decades. I may not know much but consider myself to know more than most of them. After all I've been to several all over this country and wasted tons of money and energy in hopes for some help. Nothing.
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
other components of the Protocol may be benefiting u greatly..I can tell u that it's not the avoidance of D.& I don't doubt your experience, but "testimonies", when investigated, have often been found many times 2 b non-factual.Did u ever ask Dr. Marshall why he didn't pubish some case histories with information & chest xray or CT scan results?BTW,if avoidance of D means u've given up dairy foods, that alone is very beneficial and can help fatigue, I've seen it in 1000s of patients.RB
rcbaker200 2 years ago
Robert, how can you tell me it has nothing to do with the avoidance of Vit D? As far as Trevor Marshall is concerned I never asked him anything. I just tried to make a chance decision based on several things I've looked at and the theory behind the MP seemed to make sense. This is how things are when you're desperate sometimes, it's do or die...or suffer and wish you were dead. And for the milk, I do use some unfortifieed milk sporadically even know I've never done well with it personally. .
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
Exactly. People will say they've been abducted by aliens or that Jesus "healed" them. Medicine is based on research. Simply put, there is no evidence that the Marshall Protocol is anything other than a "snake oil"cure. You might as well wash your body in "elopticaly energized soap" or "clean your energy pores." I trust statistics. Not a testimony.
judderwocky 2 years ago
Comment removed
rcbaker200 2 years ago
Good analogy. I've experienced remarkable improvements against Sarcoidosis over the past few years. A long downward spiral for which most 'docs' had no answers, was turned into a slow upward spiral of improving health thanks to the MP.
YOUR SITUATION MAY VARY - do your homework as this commentator suggests.
MesFavoris 2 years ago
Hi Brian,
Thanks for posting great eye opening monologues in your videos. I can see how people get confused and are "out in the snow."
tmobileg 2 years ago
This is mainstream propaganda to discredit the REAL doctors and research community who found that the solution to most of life threatening diseases is, well, FREE, ie...VITAMIN D...through sunshine!! Can you imagine what this will do to the multi billion (nowadays its multi-trillion!) pharma corporations and so called health care hospitals?? Without much ado, I would just ignore this Marshall protocol ( read the similarity to WW II Marshall protocol!) and get on with Vitamin D3.
gkebiz 2 years ago 3
Just for the record, virtually none of the medical profession believes in the Marshall protocol.
The measurement of 1-25-dihyroxyvitamin D is totally worthless.
The connection between low levels of 25-hydroxy vitamin D causing a variety of diseases has been well proven.
R. Baker MD
rcbaker200 2 years ago
Do you have data to support his claim? I would also point out that only a few years ago most doctors "knew" that ulcers could NOT be caused by bacteria. This has been the sad history of most medical innovation and discovery.
Have you actually researched the MP? I'm living it and thankfully I have been under treatment by doctors more scientifically founded and open-minded than your comment indicates you are.
MesFavoris 2 years ago
I made factual statements, and I get a personal attack. Have u heard of any of the hundreds of research papers that have been published each year (possibly thousands) that show the inverse relationship between D levels and various diseases? Yes, I have researched the MP. If u want 2 believe in a theory that has not 1e shred of supporting evidence, and in fact all the evidence goes against it, then fine. I wish you well Robert Baker MD
rcbaker200 2 years ago
A personal attack? Because I asked you some questions? Come on. Please be serious.
You say: "measurement of 1-25-dihyroxyvitamin D is totally worthless." That's a huge claim - based on what evidence?
The charge against those "thousands of papers" as I understand it, is that they disregard 1.25D and look only at 25D. And they fail to consider the inter-relationships between the two.
Pre-conceived ideas blocking the path to new conclusions?
I suspect so.
MesFavoris 2 years ago
tell me one thing - if the science backing MP is in fact true and those with chronic diseases have all this l-form bacteria they can't fight off, why does this happen to these people and not everyone else? what do some people get affected by this bacteria and others don't? isn't that the real cure?
starsweet4 3 years ago 2
Why do some people get cancer and others not? How about multiple sclerosis? Allergies? Who knows? Many unanswered questions. Just because some questions remain unanswered, does not mean that we do not still have small pieces of the truth.
LymeDiseasePublisher 3 years ago
you really just repeated my question.. all i'm saying is that when one suddenly goes from the picture of health to having chronic diseases like this, there must be something that tipped it in that direction, and finding that and turning that around is the REAL cure. wearing glasses and avoiding the sun like the plague and eliminating foods with D3 (in addition to foods you're already avoiding like gluten, dairy, etc. due to your chronic illness) is not the answer.
starsweet4 3 years ago 2
i'm already on a severely restricted diet and avoiding even MORE foods, PLUS the sun (therefore, anywhere outside my house) would be enough to make me commit suicide. there's got to be a way to figure out what tipped the immune system the wrong way.
starsweet4 3 years ago
i've tried many different options and have spent thousands of dollars on research, dr's, so called "experts" etc. so far the modified version of the MP I'm doing has helped to some extent. there has been times when I thought something was severaly wrong while on this protocol but overall so far it seems to be working. there's many things that involve illness, ie, toxins, emf's, energy imbalance, emotional problems etc. if you ask me the main culprit is the microbial imbalance within us.
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
1)there is not 1 shred of evidence in any study that avidance of Vit D will help, in fact all the evidence says the opposite. 2)we don't know your symptoms so it is hard to comment specially on your case 3)sorry, i don't know what a die off reaction is 4)2000 U. D is not a high dose.Spending a lot of time in the sun doesn't mean anything,it's impossible to talk about your vit d without knowing a level.I am aware that the dx of lyme's can men a lot of things to a lot of people.
rcbaker200 2 years ago
EXACTLY.
judderwocky 2 years ago
I just realized something. The title "Vitamin D Controversy and the Marshall Protocol" is a misnomer. There is no controversy, since there isn't a shread of evidence RE vitamin D and these diseases. No study, no published case reports even. Nothing, zero, zip.
rcbaker200 2 years ago
EXACTLY. The marshall protocol is a sort of "religion" ... it has no scientific basis, but people within the movement have developed their own "language" to describe reality. One of these is that there is a "controversy" about vit d... which there is not.
I studied religion in school... Its a religion. Its not a scientific theory.
judderwocky 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Vitamin D suppresses your immune system hence why you feel better, yet the L-form bacteria are still thriving. watch and learn what happens with VitD and your receptors...
bacteriality . com/2008/05/07/mpintro/
fetymann 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Vitamin D suppresses your immune system hence why you feel better, yet the L-form bacteria are still thriving. watch and learn what happens with VitD and your receptors...
bacteriality . com/2008/05/07/mpintro/
fetymann 1 year ago
it's like we have alien life forms living in us fighting for their survival and have many ways to insure that they indeed do. remember we have living things inside of us that produce very specific toxins/chemicals to hinder and avoid our immune system and on top of that they have several ways to protect themselves and go, in some cases completely undetected
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
That's an important question for sure. My personal thinking is it depends upon which bacteria we are in contact with and what our individual susceptibilities are. Sometimes we "catch" the flu when we are exposed to it, other times we don't. We somehow fight it off. Still much to learn about our immune systems there is!
MesFavoris 2 years ago
good question starsweet4 and great answer, bryan.
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
Are you completely symptom free? Thanks for writing books and helping us.
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
I think your wise to ask? Is it because some have lower saturated fat diets. Fats are antimicrobial properties that kill viruses/bacteria/fungi. Palmitc acid kills Candida albicans. Beef dripping, coconut, lamb fats, maybe butter, Ghee, are eaten less these days, alot of people are careful of fats, but these help fat soluble vits get in and help Ca go in, keep phosphorus lower. I think fats have a critical role not considered in lymes.
Catherine8raw 1 year ago
I had very low levels of vitamin 2 having both tests done. Having lyme and depriving it of vitamin D seems absurd, I have increased my vitamin D and feel better because of it. Depriving the body of vitamin D makes zero sense, vitamin d deficiency is at epedimic levels and so is lyme...what is the connection.
cotmh 3 years ago
If both 25D and 1,25D were low you probably don't have a th1 disease and so what has been said is not relavent to you. Its best to see a doctor to find out why your D levels are low.
trevorjharris 3 years ago
Your comments about the test are a bit off, but you have the right idea here. For years, D2 and D3 have both been tests in the 25-(OH)-vitamin D form, a metabolite of both types. The problem lies in that the benefits of D are only present in the D3 form. New methods of LC/MS/MS can differentiate between the two.
The problem of the past was that the values were artificially high for vitamin D because D2 was too much of the overall value, thus the benefits of D were not present in those indivs.
UpYourD3 3 years ago
They are going too far (the MP people). Too much conjecture and reliance on computer modeling that is not anywhere near 100%
There is no evidence that Benicar agonizes VDR IN VIVO.
ARBs are great drugs thru there effects on AT1 receptor, no evidence that VDR has anything to do with it.
MP helped you because your illness was in your mind. You are a nut job.
cozaar33 3 years ago
Well done...very understated.
dipsydi 3 years ago
My boyfriend has chronic fatigue and Marshall Protocol has helped him to get better, I'm a scientist so I scrutinised the MP heavily, in the end I think results speak louder then anything. I think that like any medical treatment you need to be cautious and follow the instructions properly to achieve the best results. I'm sure this treatment won't work for everyone, but if you think you may benefit then do some research and talk to your doctor.
Elmos6969 3 years ago 5
do you live in a supply room?
thenewrapstyle 3 years ago 2
if he is doing the marshall protocol, my guess would be yes. This comment gave me a chuckle.
Bestbirths 3 years ago
Know nothing about Lyme disease but one problem from too much vitamin D might be it raises blood levels of calcium too high(hypercalcemia). Which could be reduce by reducing calcium intake. Anyway I assume anyone doing this alternative treatment is getting blood calcium levels tested?
pinkytm1 3 years ago
Calcium goes up with Vitamin D if the level is 200 nanograms or more. Noone is suggesting the kind of dose that would cause that.
rcbaker200 2 years ago
Thanks for the information. Chronic illnesses are so individual the pathogens are slippery and very good at mutating once they reach a certain level in the body. Since I am just beginning to self-educate about the MP I am once again feeling overwhelmed by yet ANOTHER controversial WHAT NOT TO EAT..WHAT NOT TO DO...etc. There are days when I feel like I live in the dark ages.( no pun intended regarding the sun issue) If it works for me,I will let you know.
xxxsusserxxx 3 years ago
Thanks for the information Bryan! My feeling about the MP is like a lot of other lyme treatments, one has to figure out what works for oneself and sometimes there are pieces of information that are extremely helpful without embarking on the whole enchilada so to speak. I went off soy and reduced my Vit D intake (where not naturally occurring as both are added to so many foods) and I have found improvement.
My holistic doc agrees with the Vit D125 testing, and with the elimination of soy.
cronelesbo 3 years ago
Dr Marshall may not be a medical doctor but he has 2 PhD only one in engineering the other in biomedical science. He has been involved in medical research most of his career and has help men without testes and women who delivered premature babies because of an LH deficiency. He is a professor at an Australian university and has written peer reviewed articles for medical textbooks on vitamin D. His research coincides with many leaders in this field including Dr J.S. Adams and Dr O Sharma.
camerton14 3 years ago
Yes, the severe herxing is a problem. I had severe herxing as well. You can read my story in my book, The Top 10 Lyme Disease Treatments. In some cases I stopped the protocol for months believing it had damaged me. But eventually got back on and "broke through."
Bryan
LymeDiseasePublisher 3 years ago
My wife got MUCH sicker on the MP. 4 years later... her health still suffers from MP.
The biggest controversy is the dogmatic way doctors and moderaters pummelled those very ill persons who were in extreme Herx mode and were just asking questions. "Just tough it out" they were told.
Hard Herxing is now thought by many to be potentially VERY harmful!...Causing permanent brain damage, and might be the reason some people experience EXTREME treatment failure.
loggerbuck 3 years ago 2
lol this guy has no credit to his posts look at his profile.
trev marshall will win the noble prize mark my words
OMFGTHISNAMEISTAKEN1 3 years ago
The Chronic Lyme community knows a LOT about mainstream medicine's powers that be who trash those who even BELIEVE Chronic Lyme is more than a "VERY RARE condition" I have defended MP to doctor's in the past. However it is the heavy handed simple minded followers of his MP that will PREVENT any prizes he may deserve.
MP followers are actually rather cult-like in their belief.
loggerbuck 3 years ago
Insisting MP is a cure all for Chronic Lyme and Mis-diagnosed Auto-immune infectious diseases is like prescribing a single dosed Beta-Blocker to every Cardiac patient. Some will be helped... but some will worsen... and some will DIE!
The MP proponents are an interesting study in human behavior. But they certainly are not helping much in combating the Medical/Pharma research cabal that is keeping Chronically infected sufferers ill.
loggerbuck 3 years ago 2
MP proponents COULD be a great asset... but it is their cult-like insistence that there is only one route across the ocean that harms the ill and discredits others on the same side in this fight.
I find that problematic workers and proffesional people seldom have a problem with competence... and incompetence can often be addressed with training. It is the issues of CHARACTER and or wisdom that are the MOST problematic.
MP proponents would serve "Saint Trevor" better if they'd just CHILL.
loggerbuck 3 years ago
It sounds to me like you have an axe to grind. If you spent some time reading the scientific findings that are the foundation of the MP rather than finding fault with it's "cultlike" followers (ridiculous assertion) I doubt that you would be so glib. Dr. Marshall has unearthed a scientific discovery that has been there for all to see. He will eventually win the Nobel Prize for this discovery....few disagree on this.
dipsydi 3 years ago
loggerbuck, you brought up several good points. very good job!
glenn413333333a 2 years ago
マーシャルのプロトコルは、科学とは、基本的にジャンク教団です。
Soulnik 3 years ago
I'm currently on the Marshall Protocol and happy with the progress that I'm making.
SDD1244 3 years ago
Marshall has narrow view, and embraces dogma.
There are other receptors which can over-ride the VDR and transcribe antimicrobial factors to clean out the cells. Using novel peptides is one way.
mualfa123 4 years ago
I agree. The MP is extremely controversial -- the main controversy being his use of the word "cure". I have never heard of anyone -- not one single person -- who has stopped the drug/antibiotic protocol, and remained well, even those with sarcoidosis. But perhaps they are out there?
dannybex 4 years ago
I personally don't like Marshall, but am forced to embrace his science. I would like to point out, that there may be other ways to activate potent autocrine regulators which can do the job of promoting intracellular antimicrobial transcription. VDR is one type of receptor.
mualfa123 4 years ago
There is no question it is experimental. The reason I am happy with the MP has everything to do with feeling better.
Bryan
LymeDiseasePublisher 4 years ago
The Marshall Protocol is a pretty radical solution. Its replacing the two vitamin D's with a drug that works similarly to them, but it is not D. Its not quite the same as not having any D, or being against D. Vitamin D competes with the primary drug they use for some of the same receptors and kicks it out. Thats why you have to avoid it on the treatment. They don't make that very clear. Still experimental, phase II for some things, phase III for Sarcoidosis now.
SacredNaCl 4 years ago
They do say that when you're walking a straight line, you slightly turn left, so you're never actually walking a straight line, but end up walking in circles.
apaulinaria33 4 years ago
nice job
JBy333 4 years ago
Decades of trillions of dollars on research studies and tons of "peer reviewed reputable journals" where many old boys club editors publish only what they want published has produced nothing in the way of cures go. Shame! Marshall (molecular scientist) has figured it out and some "medical doctors" are plainly jealous. I, like you Bryan, have seen amazing results on the MP. Go to bacteriality and marshallprotocol
th1amigo 4 years ago
Great video... I've been curious about the protocol for a while but don't know much about it. I will check out the links on your blog.
cybergal3000 4 years ago
This Marshall guy is not even a medical doctor and the Marshall protocol is nothing but pure quackery.
googledog 4 years ago