Interesting to hear the catholic church using the argument that woman is mans equal.
How does that play out within the catholic church?
Not that well actually...
Also, if we follow this doctrine I should not marry a barren woman since that will not lead to the appropriation of off-spring either.
Looking at marriage only as a religious institution and ignoring the fact that it is also an institution in secular society is willfully ignoring the main issue - equal legal rights under the law.
dont worry if the church bans gay weddings no church speaks 4 god church is a barrior to god marriage comes from the heart not the pen. the church does not represent god or it would not judge u god does not judge be gay b happy
@ChristianFirefighter Stop pretending like EVERYBODY has a God delusion. You may be in the majority when proclaiming your faith, but you also belong to a group known to be
less intelligent
less educated and
MUCH less able to be congenial with all people.
Atheists ARE superior when viewed as a group. We are less violent, and have much more general knowledge and ability to get along with people.
We have no desire to give up our wonderful life for one of "blind faith".
And while we're at this, why the hell do we call a civil union (heterosexual or homosexual) marriage at all? Why can't we have any union performed in a civil establishment be called a civil union, with equal protection under the laws. If people want to get married in a church, that's fine, but it should not be considered a legal protected union until a legal document is signed in a civil court. There, problem solved.
@TheQuellian I kind of agree, only backwards. I think that the legal document should be unnecessary for Church marriage (as it is a covenant bond within that religion). Any other religion can have their ceremonies and ritual. And the unreligious person can just get by with private contracts without referrence to any legal document.
I know this is very unlikely given all the red tape and laws with marriage (mainly for tax purposes). It is just my musings about how free societies should be.
I am willing to concede all arguments against homosexuality to the Church if it can tell me this: Where does it get the authority to enforce these arguments on the society in the form of laws? If I remember correctly, it was God that destroyed Soddom and Gomorrah, not a human law figure. Therefore, if you see yourself as more righteous than these homosexual heathens you so abhor, then you have nothing to worry about. I'm sure God will spare you as he spared Lot.
@TheQuellian Good question! If we lived in a Catholic society the authority would come from the Church and then applied to the law by government. This was once the case. I am not necessarily endorsing going back to this.
In the USA, which is my country, the fed government really has no business in legislating on marriage. It should be up to each state, and I don't think they should bother with it either. Let people make whatever contracts they want. This is supposed to be a free society.
@ProfileStudio The reason the federal government has to legislate on marriage is because one state can decide that the marriage contract from another state is invalid. In fact, they can do that now for same sex marriages, but they would never do it for a heterosexual marriage. If we were to separate secular unions from the religious institution of marriage, the problem would be solved. The problem with letting states decide on these issues is that state legislature seats are too easily bought.
I think the church's position on gay marriage is quite clear. The real question is why the hell should it be of any relevance when it comes to making secular laws?
@EPR89 Well, the video only goes into that issue in passing. I said that secular governments should leave the institution of marriage to the various religions. I believe that in a free society people can make whatever contracts they wish so long as they do not violate others' rights. Two men can live together and have whatever ceremony they wish, just as the Catholic Church is allowed to have her ceremony and rules.
I am not interested in states legislating on this issue.
@ProfileStudio There's a difference between a legal marriage and a religious one. What I think is happening quite often lately is that the church is treating them as one thing. I don't know if that's happening deliberately. At least when it comes to the Catholic church I wouldn't be surprised. Ratzinger is a pretty... Special guy. Protestants have more variety.
But I see your point. From a religious point of view the church has every right to deny homosexuals their ceremony.
The video clearly explains the church's reasons for it's attitude towards the whole idea of homosexual marriage. The Catholic church is a religious organisation so it's laws and teachings eminate from the teachings of it's master Jesus Christ. Marriage is a sacred gift given from God for the culmination of love between a man and a woman with the expression of that love being fulfilled with children for the continuation of the human race.
The term 'marriage' is inadequate to signify the matrimonial bond. Just about any two things can be married. A shovel is wood and metal married. The human marriage from which successfull societies flowed is more accurately understood as the matrimonial bond.
matrimony
c.1300, from O.Fr. matremoine, from L. matrimonium "wedlock, marriage," from matrem (nom. mater) "mother" + -monium, suffix signifying "action, state, condition." Related: Matrimonial.
The word "marriage" is a human invention given human meaning. The word "marriage" came from the French word "marier" which means to join and a French suffix "-age" which means a state of being or condition, when combined, "marriage" means any joining with permanence--such as marrying/joining together two people or two boards of wood.
In the journal of the French skeptic and essayist, Michel De Montaigne (1580-1581), he recorded Portuguese same-sex marriages celebrated in a nuptial mass in Rome: ".......They married one another, male to male, at Mass, with the same ceremonies with which we perform our marriages, read the same gospel service, and then went to bed and lived together. ..." Shortly thereafter Catholic authorities found out about these marriages and had the men who got married to each other burned to death.
Marriage has changed throughout history, place and cultures: Lakota chief Crazy Horse had one or two male spouse(s) and many other Native American nations also had what we call same-sex marriages. Ethnographers have documented this. Examples: Omahas, Zapotecs, Mohaves, Crow, Ojibwa, Winnebago, Yuma and more. Other cultures too. In 17th century Fukian Province China, same-sex marriages between gay men seem to have been common. And in West Africa, "woman marriage[s]"---a practice by many tribes.
@seahorse05 This is so rare so unknown that it is laughable as it is perhaps misunderstood ....
The fact is is homosexuality is as widespread as you supporters of it believe then there's NO WAY the human race would have propsered and multiplied the way it is.
@seahorse05 You just made that shit up. I studied anthropology and there is no evidence for anything you just said. There is not a single known culture in the world that treats the union of two men or two women the same as it treat an opposite-sex union or a mother and a father. You made that shit up and just assume you were right in the name of cultural reletavism.
@muel0341 Read ...check it out from a library or buy it on Amazon...." Same-Sex Marriage: Pro and Con A Reader" (1994) edited and with an introduction by Andrew Sullivan. Try some real research, then please apologize to me for your unsupported and ignorant allegations you levied against my character. Let me know when you finish reading it. Take notes too.
@seahorse05 After doing some research on this 'andrew sullivan' character - one can discover quite readily that he has no significant background in anthropology, sociology or any related field. Just because someone has a blog doesn't mean they are credible. I have a degree in anthropology from the University of Minnesota and I know native american culture quite well- your claim that there was a functional equivalent for ss marriage in early native cultures is unsustainable.
@muel0341 "In 1542, one of the earliest Spanish explorers in Florida, Cabeza de Vaca, reported on his previous five years among the Timucua Indians: "During the time I was thus among these people I saw a devilish thing, and it is that I saw one man married to another." ... ." "A Normal Man" by Walter L. Williams from "The Spirit and the Flesh" by Walter L. Williams, 1986 ...on page 35 of Same-Sex Marriage Pro/Con A Reader edited by Andrew Sullivan. " A Reader " is a compilation writers.
@seahorse05 Yeah and Im sure that the native Hawaiians really believed that captain cook was God too huh? Anyone with a background in anthropology knows that you can't take these things at face value. It is extremely likely that Mr Vaca misinterpreted the relationship. Again - I repeat - there is no known culture in which there is a functional equivalent of marriage for same sex couples. Colonists and explorers are notorious for getting these kinds of things horribly wrong.
@muel0341 Page 36 Sullivan Reader, excerpt by Walter L. Williams:"An ethnographer of the Omahas wrote in the 1880s: "Mingu-ga [mexoga] took other men as their husbands. Frank La Fleche knew one such man, who had had several men as his husbands...[They] are publicly known, and do not appear to be despised or to excite disgust." On p. 36; "Marriage between a berdache and a man existed in the context of the general position of marriage in aboriginal American Indian society. ..."
@muel0341 For for understanding about "marriage," also find and read the essay, "Here's Your 'Traditional Marriage'" by Patrick Ryan, associate professor of childhood and social institutions at the University of Western Ontario. You can find that essay online (the free library by farlex) searching the title plus author: "Here's Your 'Traditional Marriage'" by Patrick Ryan
---It will increase your understanding of "marriage."
@seahorse05 Firstly, you cannot derive and ought from an is. Second, even if these sources are valid (which I dispute) - to define marriage as anything other than man and woman has drastic consequences for child raising. Everyone deserves to be raised by their mother and father. Children not raised by their own mothers and fathers do not do as well as those who are. Lastly the condition of homosexuals has continued to decline even in the countries that have legislated ss marriage.
@seahorse05 These are good facts, but they do not make a good argument. The fact that many cultures have different moral views doens't mean they are morally right. For instance, some cultures practiced human sacrifice and female infanticide. This fact that this is true does not purify the act.
Here we are seeking the natural moral order inherent in things by their nature. Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.
@ProfileStudio You wrote, " .... the natural moral order inherent in things by their nature. Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."
The natural moral order inherent in things by their nature? Is a call for gay people to be gay and if equal civil marriage helps them in their life, so be it. Equal protection of the law(s) and due process demands it. And your last sentence is a subjective Catholic dogma statement that has no merit and is inherently destructive and totally negative.
@atheistram I would disagree with the term impose. I cannot force by belief on anyone. I preach it, if it rings true to you, you may accept it. If it offends you, you may leave it. My goal is to have the Church's teaching clearly understood. Agree or disagree, I have little concern about, and I certainly don't use force to make you agree. THAT would be an imposition.
Check out my YouTube channel/playlists and websites for present-truth materials, Three Angels' Messages and God's last-mercy warning to His people in these last days.
Papacy = Antichrist / Little Horn / Beast from the Sea
Roman Catholicism = Whore of Babylon
Investigative Judgement has commenced in 1844 (1st Angel’s Message)
Ellen G. White, 1827-1915 = End-time Prophet Sent of God
7th-day Sabbath = Seal of God
Sunday Worship to be Enforced as Mark of the Beast"
The CCC 2358 does NOT read that aberrosexuals (those who engage in biologically aberrant sexual behavior) "do not choose" their aberrosexual conduct. There is absolutely NO clinical or scientific evidence to support such a claim. Sexual behavior and practices are freely chosen. Nature does not force anyone to engage in biologically aberrant sexual or pseudo sexual behavior. The "Homosexual Marriage" video above spreads false and misleading information in this regard. Please be aware of it.
@Aberrosexualismo While you are correct that the revised CCC reference no longer contains the "do not choose" clause, you have made a mistake. The old CCC 2358 does not say that homosexual persons do not choose their conduct, but rather the inclination. That is a very large distinction to miss. Further the video does not spread the idea that "nature forces" anyone to make any sexual behavior. The revised CCC quote really changes nothing of the teaching of this video.
@Slatteryan According to the video, the old CCC 2358 states that homosexuals do not choose their homosexual "condition," not "inclination" as you state. Aberrosexualism (aka homosexualism) is not a condition, however. It is a behavior, a conduct; as is adultery, shoplifting, etc. They are not conditions. Additionally, there is no scientific or clinical data to support the statement that "for most of them it (their homosexual behavior) is a trial." The statement is false and should be deleted.
@Aberrosexualismo The argument is a moral not scientific one. It is based on what is right versus what is wrong not what is possible to do. I can kill you.... that's very possible if you were standing before me. The question asked here is would that killing be right (moral or justified). If we all acted because it were possible as opposed to what is moral .... well our world is full of that and God willing you already haven't been a personal victim of that conduct.
@brianh406 I don't disagree that homosexuality has been around in various forms throughout history. But I'd never do the Ancient Roman Empire a disjustice by calling them "morally acceptable".
@brianh406 ... Hey, hey, the struggle's not going to be easy and nobody's told us it would be but we must go on and on and try somehow to support eachother even if Geography's put us aside. It's ONE FIGHT, ONE PEOPLE, ONE GOAL! I read some saying to you here that you're a representative of the 'homosexual' they'd be ashamed to be associated with you and I tell you that I'm very proud with my head held high to be associated with you! God bless us homosexuals and good ones!!!
I could use many verses in the same BIBLE that would corroborate my opinions about same sex relationships yet as I simply had enough of the whole religious bullshit I'm not even discussing that subject! Unless any ridiculous bigot decides to try my brain. What the others cannot deny us anywhere in the globe is our civil rights! About the religious marriage ceremony, I really couldn’t care less about that as the Pope, the Queen or any other religious leader won’t pay my bills!!!
I just find too funny as they try and use the BIBLE to corroborate their personal hatred and homophobic conceptions about their supposedly perfect life with a mummy-daddy-babies’ realm world... Give me a break, folks! There are sterile people in this planet and some children will never even meet their biological parents!
@brianh406 Why is it ok for one group of people to voice their oppinion and not another? Also, our God is incapable of hate.
There are bad and good people everywhere. They exist in the Catholic religion - those who hate gay people (because true Catholics do not hate anyone). But they also exist in the homosexual community - those who hate Catholics.
However, regardless of what organization you belong to, good people have one thing in common - they love. And it should be enough to coexist
@mepoindexter human sexuality is sacred? Say what? Where did you get that silly notion? Sexuality is meant for pleasure first and foremost, and procreation is a secondary consideration. Just ask the animal kingdom which not only engages in homosexual activity in great numbers, but also has sex for pleasure as well. It has been well documented and can no longer be denied. It was human beings that "projected" religious meaning onto sex, this is not nature in any sense of the word.
@mepoindexter maybe you can explain what you meant by that? My argument made sense, your argument didn't. Please tell me how sexuality is sacred. It's the stupidest thing I've heard all day. Human beings created god, and human beings invented the concept of sin. Human beings also invented the concept of "sacred." Sexuality isn't sacred, it's a part of nature, stupid. And, no, nature isn't sacred either.
@mepoindexter are you also aware that marriage, in its original form, had nothing to do with religion whatsoever? In fact, the origins of marriage are in Paganism and were a group ritual. The concept of one man/one woman is fairly new on the scene. Read your bible, and you'll see that polygamy was the norm.
@brianh406 I'm never going to be in the same boat as you..
your comments drain away my intellectual capacity :)
I have better things to do then to argue down all the strawmen you put up...
have fun with your sorry life... If you;re a representative of the 'homosexual' I'll be ashamed to be associated with you. Good bye and may you fare well.
@brianh406 The same can be said for fanatics in the 'gay rights' movement. Whom I consider nothing more than gay 'Talibans'... the same breed under a different guise.
No, you cannot get a horse by mating two male horses. There are only properly ordered or disordered sexual actions, we are talking about the natural law. A left handed person does not act deficiently when they use their left arm or hand to act, but someone with same sex attraction uses the sexual faculty- the faculty for creating life- deficiently as same sex acts are perfectly sterile, totally at odds for the purpose of the sexual faculty ( procreation). The two things are NOT comparable.
@r5t9m0 several studies have revealed that homosexuality is passed through the mother's side of one's family. In my own family I have three of five cousins on my mother's side who are gay. There are no gay cousins on my father's side. SImiliarly, left handedness is passed from one generation to another. There is no question that there is a genetic component to it. Scientists don't believe they will find a gay gene, because it probably doesn't exist. It is more complex than just genes.
@r5t9m0 some gay activists are strongly against research into a gay gene. They feel that the right wing nutjobs might want to abort gay fetuses if such a gene were located. Incidentally, researchers in Sweden claim that they will be able to predict sexual orientation before birth in the future. It was based on a 2008 brain study, which showed that gay men and women have different brain sizes from straights. Gay men outperform straights in tests involving verbal/cognitive skills.
@r5t9m0 speaking of homosexuality in animals, I highly recommend you talk to a sheep farmer. They will tell you that there is a certain percentage of sheep in every herd that will not breed with the opposite sex no matter what they try to get them to do. It is natural for them to mate only with same sex partners. There is a species of bighorn sheep in which the male population participates in anal intercourse to ejaculation. They reject any sheep that won't participate. Disordered? NO!
@r5t9m0 you continue to operate from the false presumption that the purpose of sex is procreation. I'm here to educate you to the fact that this is not true. Sex is for pleasure first and foremost. Procreation is secondary.
@r5t9m0 if I might ask a personal question of you. You can ignore it if you'd like, but it's something I'm curious about. Do you participate in any sexual activity that doesn't directly involve procreative goals? In other words, do you masturbate, have oral sex, or any other activity of that sort? If you do, then how is that any different from homosexual sex? Incidentally, I'm not necessarily a huge fan of anal intercourse. I prefer oral sex myself. Sorry if this is too personal for you.
@andrzejnher4eva "it has shown me the dignity of being a human being..."
OH pa-leeeeease. Save it. I am straight and i have a gay brother who is very HAPPY and successful with many many gay MARRIED friends who are doing exceptionally well.
"because that wont help gays"....psst, hey dummy, gays dont need help, they need exceptance from intolerant Bible Thumping MORONS.
Keep your fairy tale beliefs out of others right to equality in this life.
@andrzejnher4eva wow, I feel so sorry for you that I hardly know where to begin. Although i must say that I do appreciate that the Catholic church recognizes that being homosexual is something that is innate and immutable, their draconian approach of forcing gays into a life of celibacy is decidely not the the answer. Human beings are sexual by nature, and to deny one's sexuality is like denying your gender or race. I hope you realize the reason why Catholics preach against homosexuality.
@andrzejnher4eva the Catholic notion that sexuality exists only for the purpose of procreation is laughable. First off, it is clear that the primary function of sexuality is pleasure. Procreation is often an untended consequence of sexual behavior. In fact, for every 10,000 acts of sexual intercourse it results in ONE pregnancy (my own estimate). So, how could you say that sex exists for procreation first and foremost? Even animals participate in homosexual sex for pleasure.
@andrzejnher4eva what breaks my heart is to read that you would deny your sexuality simply because some people have misused and misinterpreted the bible in order to get you to deny who you are as a human being. That's tragic. Science has proven that sexual orientation is innate and not something we choose. So, why would you go against nature just because of some people's narrow misinterpretation of the bible?
@andrzejnher4eva I was raised Protestant, and I was taught that sex is for pleasure and that birth control is a good thing, as it involves procreating responsibly. I feel that the Catholic view of birth control as a sin is absolutely criminal. There are third world Catholic countries around the world where the population growth is out of control. I directly blame the Catholic church for the tragedy that happened in Haiti regarding the deaths of so many people in the earthquake (too many people
@andrzejnher4eva would you have agreed with the Catholic church if they had told you it was wrong to be a female? It is no different from them telling you that it is wrong to be homosexual or "behave" as a homosexual. I believe that gay people should behave as gay people and straights as straights. Asking a gay person to deny their sexuality, simply because it doesn't fall in line with their church doctrine, is shameful.
@lisztnut When has the Catholic Church ever agreed that it was wrong to be Homosexual?
All they ever say is...if you're Gay FINE but have some dignity. If you're a male FIne but have some dignity! If you're female FINE but have some dignity! No one is asking anybody to deny their sexuality...
At the same time, no one is forcing anyone to become Catholic...
who are you to change the Church that I belief in and find comfort in? Who am I to change your belief where you find comfort in? Cont*
@andrzejnher4eva I feel so sorry for you, because you view something that is a PART of who you are as defective. This is no way to live. You need to EMBRACE your homosexuality not fight against it. It makes no sense for you to ignore this part of who you are. This can only lead to dire consequences in your psyche. It's NOT healthy, trust me on that. Celibacy doesn't work for Catholic priests, so why should it work for you? Christians of other denominations condemn celibacy.
@lisztnut Most of our Saints are called to live dedicated lives of chastity not for the sake of chastity but for the sake of denying ourselves to help others...! and in turn helping ourselves too...
But the Church understands and acknowledges how hard it is to be Holy like a Saint and to follow in Christs footsteps.. and She tries her very best to encourage us Catholics...I want to belive that my 'sexuality' means something more to my person! and the Church has taught me this cont*
@lisztnut My sexuality (whether Gay-like me-, Straight -like you perhaps-, or bi) has to pertain to something greater... am I attracted to men because I want to have sex with men? or is it because my person desires and yearns for masculinity? The Church teaches me to stop looking at my orientation in a one sided sex-only manner but as in a Holistic (including physical, mental and spiritual) manner... Where rather than looking at myself as a person with a peculiar cont*
@lisztnut behaviour, I can view myself as a normal human being who has a sex-drive (like anyone else) and who does not want to make that the essential purpose of my entire being.,,
I am gay, I did not choose it, but I am... so now what? do I go around having sex with other men? My boyfriend asked me to have sex with him and I refused... am I less gay than he is? What does being gay even mean? I am a man in essence, but I am not like most men I am effeminate...and that has to count for something
and fyi, the Church does not say..."Andrzej, stop being gay" Instead it says " Andrzej, you're gay, you cannot change your condition, all we hope for is for you to live with human dignity- to avoid the dangers of becoming a whore to other men who will only use you and throw you away but to look for solidarity and love instead from your fellow men. And If you can please try and abstain and remain chaste according to the teachings if Christ through the Gospels." Whats wrong and evil in this?
@andrzejnher4eva I see you have bought the mythological teachings of your evil church, and I do think the Catholic church is evil to its very core. The Catholic church has done more harm than good in the world. Just think of what was done around the world in the "name of Jesus." Entire cultures have been decimated, and yes, people have been KILLED by missionaries. There is no question abou this. And, you continue to support this institution? What about the teachings against birth control
But the main culprits were the Monarchies Who used religion and their soldiers to gain wealth...
and more often than not it were the missionaries (in both Japan and the America's) who as the very first anhropologists tried their best to preserve and understand the culture of the natives... many times giving up with their lives along with the natives...
@andrzejnher4eva Yes, I happen to think that missionaries have done more harm than good in the world. I view the complete dismissal of some people's cultures to be offensive. What gave them the right to go into South America and Africa and slaughter the native people, and decimate their culture? It's just immoral. I know they had the best of intentions. They were attempting to "spread the good news of Jesus," but the end result was the ruination of people's cultures. It's sickening.
@lisztnut I'm sorry in this I really have to disagree...
A lot of the things you know and understand today in this world are caused by missionaries...
The fields of Anthropology, Sociology, Seismology, some parts of quantum physics (including the big bang theory), Philosophy, Mathematics, Botany, Astronomy (the moon has 37 craters named after catholic priests) etc were pionnered by missionaries and Catholic priests...
@lisztnut The Catholic missionaries if anything should be lauded for their benevolent attmpts to save and preserve culture... just read about the Catholic Missions (missionaries are not conquistadors) in Japan and China...
yes there are always bad apples... yet in many cases it is because of them that some of the culture of these places actually flourished and were not wiped out... Apart from psychology i did a minor in sociology so trust me... I of all people should know the evils of my Church
@lisztnut as well as the immense goodness it has brought to so many and is still bringing...
I know what you'll say... Catholics are bigota etc etc trust me being gay in this Church is not easy...
but The Church herself is protecting me and trying to put sense to Catholics... to accpet me and not hate me... and I need to help My Church, my beloved institution, do this...
@lisztnut I know for sure that you are a good person...
And i honestly dont care what you think my beliefs portray me as....
all I ask is, exactly what you're asking, look at what i believe with understanding...
this world is made up of a spectrum of people ranging from everything to everything...
There is no one way that is trulyy right or wrong... but we're here together on earth not to judge or scrutinize but to understand... I believe in God, so? does that make me different?
@andrzejnher4eva I've been to South America on five trips. I was told how the European missionaries came there and literally killed off the Indian people. I suggest you study on this history, as well. You might like the movie "The Mission" which tells of the slaughter of Indians at the hands of Catholic missionaries. You will never view your church the same way after viewing this movie.
@andrzejnher4eva and, the fact that you view a gay relationship as something inferior to straight relationships is very sad, indeed. I am married to my husband, and our relationship is in way different from a straight marriage. We opted not to have children in our family, but many straight married couples do the same (at least in America). When you view your relationships with men on a purely sexual nature it is YOU that have the problem, not me. I married my husband because I love him.
@lisztnut I do not view Homosexual relationships as inferior...show me where you thought you saw this?
I just like to clarify that the term 'marriage' is a religious institution for the Catholic Church and I belive they reserve the right to keep it that way in its originality (if you dont like being Catholic no one asks you to remain one )...
I firmly belive that... And Homosexual relationships are not inferior, they just do not fit the criteria for a Catholic marriage.. so go somewehere else!
@andrzejnher4eva and, I continue to assert that viewing your sexuality through the eyes of pure lust and sexual desire shows me that you are very immature. My sexual activity doesn't define me, nor my relationship with my husband. I have a heathly relationship on all levels. My husband is a therapist, and he says that most of his couples who are straight are far worse off than the gay couples. Gay couples know how to communicate whereas a man and a woman are clueless.
@lisztnut Well in this case I agree that my view is subjective, and I wish you and your husband a happy 'marriage'.. sincerely... but see I am strugling with sex... I have been taught by the 'gay culture' to view my sexuality as purely nothing but 'sex' the love bit rarely even occurs to most of my friends when they were teenagers... I had a boyfriend...and I loved him... so dont tell me that I dont know what you're saying... I KNOW EXACTLY what you're saying... but all he ever wanted was sex!
@lisztnut Do think that Orthodox (orthodox meaning those who truly are catholic in belife and practice and not in name only) Catholic heterosexual men think of sex as their entire reason of being? Do normal heterosexuals think of sex all the time? yes you may say that you do... but does your entire life spin around your sexual orientation? No you (they) live a normal life of which sex (in thought, word, or action) with the oppsite gender is a part of but not the 'main-course' of your daily life!
Its hard for me to agree with the 'mainstream' gay culture...who seems to only revolve around the sexulity of their nature! and not the source of their sexuality! If you're even getting this I salute you... If you can't understand what I'm trying to say, well you're just the same as the rest of the world who seems to think there is only one way around things.,, and I do feel sorry for this type of people... because these people will never find fulfillment and joy in living... Pax Christi.
@lisztnut Also as a final note: Whe I say 'The Church' I quote and follow the official teachings of the Catholic Church as stated in Canon Law as well as the Cathecism... Official means what is written and not merely what some priest, nun, bishop happened to have 'commented or addressed'. This is as official as it gets...
and as a Student of Psychology trust me even the APA cannot get to this level of official-ness.
@andrzejnher4eva Meaning: if some Priest were to say " gays should burn in hell" or " Gays are not worthy of Gods love" or " Gays should die" etc... that is not official...
@andrzejnher4eva let's look at the surface of what you believe and what I believe:
1 You believe in talking snakes, men living to 900, women turning to salt and the earth is 6000 years old.
2 I believe that snakes can't talk, men don't live to 900, women don't turn to salt, and the earth is billions of years old. Mankind has been on earth for 1.5 million years, which was 1.4 million years BEFORE Adam and Eve were "created." Now, who is more sane, and intelligent, me or you?
@lisztnut hahah you see this why you think you hate the 'Catholic church' because you think we are like the average evangelical christian who will belive everything the bible says... but no... I used to think like you in my atheistic days (if i may so call it that :) ) but I learned from the Church that the bible cannot be taken literally... The adam and eve story for example is just a depiction (extremely symbolic) of creation... to understand the bible really well , (cont)
@andrzejnher4eva... of creation... to understand the bible really well , (cont)
one has to be fluent in Latin, Koine Greek and be aware of the cultural influences of the time (In Context of that time) For example... when Jesus says: "it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of the needle than for a sinful man to pass to the kingdom of heaven" this line if taken literally denotes impossibilty but the eye of the needle was really a name for a gate to the ancient (roman held) city of Jerusalem...
@lisztnut and when travellers with their camels want to pass through... they first needed to unload luggage off the camels, move the camel through...and then carry the luggage one by one... the hassle of doing this prompted Christs's comment... So you see? If one actually understands the Bible through the actual teachings of Catholicism (through the Church Fathers, and the saints etc) One gets a very down to earth picture of things... Thats what caught my eye in Catholicism, its scholasticity!
@andrzejnher4eva I believe that religion is like Santa Claus for adults. It's all a myth. You won't get "eternal life" simply because you believe that crap. Trust me on that. Human beings created the concept of "sin" and then developed a "cure" known as religion. You have to consider who it was that invented religion and god.
@lisztnut Well good for you on WHAT you belive! am I going to judge you? NO! but you have... so congratulations.. you know there was a tme when I hated the Church for all the 'vile things that she had seemingy done' I hated evangelicals for their 'forceful' and 'psychological blackmailing' then I became atheist... And I found the exact same people there as well albeit without religion... so I asked myself "Are we different with or without religion?" No... we are the same.....
@andrzejnher4eva I'm glad that you at least have taken the time to figure out where you stand when it comes to religion. I respect you for this. I also respect your wonderful command of English, by the way! Sorry I don't speak Polish. I studied Russian, which is similar, but I'm not fluent in the language by any means.
@lisztnut Dzięks (thanks) :D Well i decided since I'm being hated everywhere i will do something better: my studies has been my only comfort... psychology, sociology, history, philosphy and languages ;D I have one life so make everything count :) Maybe someday I can be the change I want to see in this world and in my Church...
you are a good person (the other two people brian and fitsafiddle are the exact people i deal with in my daily life...)...you have taken time of to understand...Salute :)
@andrzejnher4eva I came away from The Mission with the complete opposite feeling that you had. Yes, the missionaries DEFIED the evil Catholic leadership and were thus the subject of the same slaughter that the natives were victims of. This is what I learned. There are brave Catholic priests who are now standing up for what they believe in too. In California we recently had a priest who came out in strong support of gay marriage. He was REMOVED from his priestly duties by the leadership.
@andrzejnher4eva my husband was raised Catholic, and now works at a Jesuit university. I understand that Catholics are generally more educated and interested in education than are Evangelicals. In America many Evangelical Christians take their kids out of public schools because they don't want them exposed to REAL science. If the kids learn that the earth is billions of years old, not 6000 years as the bible says, they are upset about it.
@andrzejnher4eva I think all religious fundmentalism can lead to nothing but bad things. When you take a book, such as the bible, and attempt to take every word literally you WILL have problems. But, most Evangelical Christians take what they want to believe and ignore the rest. The same verses that supposedly condemn homosexuality also condemn the eating of shrimp, wearing mixed fabrics, sleeping in a bed where semen has been spilled, and touching a menstruating woman. They ignore that.
@andrzejnher4eva I'm sorry that we don't live closer to one another, because I'm certain we could become very good friends, despite our differences in our beliefs. I think you are a highly educated and thoughtful person, and it is rare today to encounter people such as yourself. One of my former piano teachers is Polish and he lives in Warsaw. You share the same first name, by the way. I'm a concert pianist by profession and have performed around the world, but not in Poland yet.
@andrzejnher4eva and, I find it remarkable that you could fall for Catholicism rather than a more legitimate Christian sect. The nonsense that Catholics believe is truly astonishing. These include: drinking the ACTUAL blood of Jesus during communion. Praying to statutes (which is considered BLASPHEMY in other Christian sects), Worshipping Mary (also BLASPHEMY). Chanting and holding beads. Birth control is a sin (this one REALLY makes me angry, considering the fact of overpopulation).
@lisztnut Legitimite Christian sect? Now that is very subjective...
According to my understanding together with 2000 years of history the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (Catholic and Orthodox) are the only true claimants of legitimacy...
Christianity is both Catholic and Orthodox... and before you try to act smart... I suggest you actually learn whether those 'alleged practices' you mentioned are true or not...
@lisztnut I find it remarkable how you asserted that you Atheist..and the proceeded directly to condemn anther religion as heretical using another religion as a benchmark...should not all religion be illegitimite to you people? Why the insincerity? Recap:
@andrzejnher4eva Well, I should clarify what I was saying regarding Catholicism and Protestantism. My father's an Evangelical minister, so of course I was brainwashed in his form of Christianity. My mother to this day insists that Catholics won't go to heaven! She thinks Catholics aren't Christians, so this attitude rubbed off on me, unfortunately.
@andrzejnher4eva one more thing. I want to say that I'm happy that you have found your happiness. As for me, I could NEVER deny who I am nor deny my sexual orientation. I am a sexual being, and I believe I was born as a gay person. To ignore this is to be untrue to myself. I understood this very early on in my life. I also realized that belief in god was not something that I could fall into. I feel that people who believe in god are weak Sorry, but I do.
But if you live life the way I do you'll actually understand the immense strenght it takes to walk out there and tell a Catholic I'm gay and to tell a gay I'm Catholic... it usually ends up in hurt from both sides (which leads me to question the difference between both groups, are they different? they both hurt me the same)... but hey I'm not leaving I am Staying put :) I am going to carry this Cross to the end... thats with it means ultimately.
@andrzejnher4eva If YOU want to remain celibate, KNOCK your socks off, its a free country, BUT dont push your fairy tale threats on others from that Story book you rely on.
Btw, snakes cant talk, burning bushes dont talk, and bread did NOT fall from the skies.
You do MORE harm than good in your efforts to 'change' people. And the only reason YOU change is because of fear put upon you by Bible Thumping morons.
Btw, i find it very strange that these Catholics ignore the past history of the Catholic Church...my GAWD, what a horror story it is and the deaths that they caused in the name of the poison that is RELIGION....
@brianh406 The Church does not say homosexuals do not 'exist' I thought that would've been made clear with "They do not choose their homosexual conditions"...
If you're a non-Catholic what I am about to say does not apply to you (although I implore you to try and understand the position and the culture of the Catholic church read on the lives of the Saints)...
The Church encourages Holiness in everything *cont*
Which does the church hate more, women or sex? Or in other words, which will they relent on first, women priests or married priests? My bet is that they allow married priests in my lifetime. The advent of the internet and information communication has seriously hurt its numbers and it has to do something to change its image soon.
I BELIEVE IN HUMAN RYTS,,WE ALL KNOW ITS NOT GOOD TO DO THIS BUT WHO R WE TO JUDGE PIPOL LIKE US,LEAVE IT TO GOD,.LETS ALL RESPECT HUMANITY,..BEING GAY ISNT A SIN BUT THE LIFESTYLE OF A GAY IS THE SIN ITSELF,,
All genitalia and human bodies are "oriented" toward LIFE and Heterosexuality. The condition of the homosexual is due to a complex reaction to the enviroment they are raised in, and the failure of the sexuality to become properly ordered within the person. Homosexuality is not "hard wired" into the person, not in the genes, not in the body in any way, not in the genitalia but is in the personality due a complex reaction of a child to their enviroment.
@r5t9m0 wow, I realize this is an old post, but you are so uneducated and uninformed as to make it necessary to educate you. No, you are quite wrong in everything you've said here. This is NO evidence that environment plays any role in the formation of sexual orientation. In fact, science says that sexual orientation is the result of a complex interplay of genes, hormones and other factors BEFORE birth. Homosexuality is similar to left handedness in that regard.
@r5t9m0 I can only assume you don't think left handedness is a sin. I need to remind you that the concept of "sin" is a man-made concoction. God is also a creation of men. The people who wrote the bible inserted homosexuality as a sin because they didn't understand it at the time. It must be taken in the context of the times. People believed that sexuality existed for the sole purpose of procreation. This is patently false. Sexuality exists for pleasure first and foremost.
@r5t9m0 if you don't believe me, you need only look to the animal kingdom. Animals mate with same sex partners for life in many species. It's been documented in 1000 species of animals or more. Therefore, homosexuality is equally as natural as heterosexuality, and it serves a biological function. Didn't you ever stop to wonder why there have always been homosexuals in the human population since the beginning of recorded time? Is it a fad? Hell no! There is a biological reason for it.
@r5t9m0 and, if you think that the body is designed exclusively for heterosexuality, you make a grave mistake. Why is the male anatomy designed so that the ONLY method by which to please a man's most erogenous zone is the insertion of another man's penis? A woman can NEVER please a man this way, without the use of something artificial. Unfortunately, most heterosexual men have never experienced a true orgasm, because they don't have their prostate stimulated during intercourse.
@r5t9m0 The American Academy of Pediatrics states:
"The current literature and most scholars in the field state that one's sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual. There is no scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation,"
@r5t9m0 The Royal College of Psychiatrists states:
" Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. It is therefore not a choice."
@r5t9m0 "Physical orientation and sexual orientation are not moral issues, and majority / minority phenomena in nature do not involve natural versus unnatural categories. The exceptional in nature is still natural, whether the exception is left-handedness or the homosexual orientation of erotic desire." D. Michael Quinn, ex-Mormon and former professor at Brigham Young University.
@lisztnut No, you cannot get a horse by mating two male horses. There are only properly ordered or disordered sexual actions, we are talking about the natural law. A left handed person does not act deficiently when they use their left arm or hand to act, but someone with same sex attraction uses the sexual faculty- the faculty for creating life- deficiently as same sex acts are perfectly sterile, totally at odds for the purpose of the sexual faculty ( life). The two things are NOT comparable.
@r5t9m0 you clearly missed my point. I'm saying that homosexual sexual activity IS natural, and it serves a BIOLOGICAL function. Otherwise it would have not existed since the beginning of time. There is a reason that humans and some animals are primarily attracted to the same gender. And, I continue to assert that the purpose of sex is not procreation. If it were, then why do so many straight men visit prostitutes? Why does birth control exist?
@r5t9m0 I find it humorous, and rather desperate, that people such as yourself still cling to the notion that there is something wrong with homosexuals and homosexuality. Despite the fact that over 1000 species of animals have been documented as mating with same sex partners for LIFE, and the fact that humans have exhibited homosexual behavior since the beginning of time, you still cannot accept it because it doesn't fall in line with your small minded view of the world and your bible. Sad...
@r5t9m0 it is revealing that left handed people were once treated as homosexuals are treated today. In fact, my own husband was subjected to a teacher who attempted to force him to use his right hand to write with, when he was born a left hander. His mother marched to school and demanded she stop what she was doing. Are you aware that roughly the same percentage of the population is left handed as is homosexual in orientaiton? There is stronge evidence of a genetic link in both phenomenon.
Christian attempts to put prayer into schools run directly counter to biblical teachings. Jesus said prayer should be a private affair devoid of public display: "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret..." Matthew 6:5-6
Any one in America who is willing to step on anyone elses Liberty, Freedom and pursuit of happiness in the Name of Religion, deserves a Theocracy, and are about as un-American as you can get.
@lisztnut Our Bible would be the US constitution, and instead of the Crap they teach in Sunday school, we would teach Critical thinking skills, Logic, Philosophy and how to analyze your own philosophy for corruption and viruses. My partner and I have thought about this for many years, the problem with my kind of church is it wouldn't have any followers, only self-thinking leaders.
Interesting to hear the catholic church using the argument that woman is mans equal.
How does that play out within the catholic church?
Not that well actually...
Also, if we follow this doctrine I should not marry a barren woman since that will not lead to the appropriation of off-spring either.
Looking at marriage only as a religious institution and ignoring the fact that it is also an institution in secular society is willfully ignoring the main issue - equal legal rights under the law.
auritone 22 hours ago
the church has to much power and u dont need it to teach u about god god is in your hearts listen to him there
WINDTALKER300 2 weeks ago
dont worry if the church bans gay weddings no church speaks 4 god church is a barrior to god marriage comes from the heart not the pen. the church does not represent god or it would not judge u god does not judge be gay b happy
WINDTALKER300 2 weeks ago
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Get rid of ALL gay priests and ALL lesbian nuns, and see what's left of your "Catholic clergy"!
Stop the hypocrisy!
fannynoise 2 weeks ago
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@ChristianFirefighter Stop pretending like EVERYBODY has a God delusion. You may be in the majority when proclaiming your faith, but you also belong to a group known to be
less intelligent
less educated and
MUCH less able to be congenial with all people.
Atheists ARE superior when viewed as a group. We are less violent, and have much more general knowledge and ability to get along with people.
We have no desire to give up our wonderful life for one of "blind faith".
fannynoise 2 weeks ago
And while we're at this, why the hell do we call a civil union (heterosexual or homosexual) marriage at all? Why can't we have any union performed in a civil establishment be called a civil union, with equal protection under the laws. If people want to get married in a church, that's fine, but it should not be considered a legal protected union until a legal document is signed in a civil court. There, problem solved.
TheQuellian 1 month ago
@TheQuellian I kind of agree, only backwards. I think that the legal document should be unnecessary for Church marriage (as it is a covenant bond within that religion). Any other religion can have their ceremonies and ritual. And the unreligious person can just get by with private contracts without referrence to any legal document.
I know this is very unlikely given all the red tape and laws with marriage (mainly for tax purposes). It is just my musings about how free societies should be.
ProfileStudio 1 month ago
I am willing to concede all arguments against homosexuality to the Church if it can tell me this: Where does it get the authority to enforce these arguments on the society in the form of laws? If I remember correctly, it was God that destroyed Soddom and Gomorrah, not a human law figure. Therefore, if you see yourself as more righteous than these homosexual heathens you so abhor, then you have nothing to worry about. I'm sure God will spare you as he spared Lot.
TheQuellian 1 month ago
@TheQuellian Good question! If we lived in a Catholic society the authority would come from the Church and then applied to the law by government. This was once the case. I am not necessarily endorsing going back to this.
In the USA, which is my country, the fed government really has no business in legislating on marriage. It should be up to each state, and I don't think they should bother with it either. Let people make whatever contracts they want. This is supposed to be a free society.
ProfileStudio 1 month ago
@ProfileStudio The reason the federal government has to legislate on marriage is because one state can decide that the marriage contract from another state is invalid. In fact, they can do that now for same sex marriages, but they would never do it for a heterosexual marriage. If we were to separate secular unions from the religious institution of marriage, the problem would be solved. The problem with letting states decide on these issues is that state legislature seats are too easily bought.
TheQuellian 1 month ago
I think the church's position on gay marriage is quite clear. The real question is why the hell should it be of any relevance when it comes to making secular laws?
EPR89 1 month ago
@EPR89 Well, the video only goes into that issue in passing. I said that secular governments should leave the institution of marriage to the various religions. I believe that in a free society people can make whatever contracts they wish so long as they do not violate others' rights. Two men can live together and have whatever ceremony they wish, just as the Catholic Church is allowed to have her ceremony and rules.
I am not interested in states legislating on this issue.
ProfileStudio 1 month ago
@ProfileStudio There's a difference between a legal marriage and a religious one. What I think is happening quite often lately is that the church is treating them as one thing. I don't know if that's happening deliberately. At least when it comes to the Catholic church I wouldn't be surprised. Ratzinger is a pretty... Special guy. Protestants have more variety.
But I see your point. From a religious point of view the church has every right to deny homosexuals their ceremony.
EPR89 1 month ago
Religion is 'Sinful'
bearsareticklish 1 month ago
The video clearly explains the church's reasons for it's attitude towards the whole idea of homosexual marriage. The Catholic church is a religious organisation so it's laws and teachings eminate from the teachings of it's master Jesus Christ. Marriage is a sacred gift given from God for the culmination of love between a man and a woman with the expression of that love being fulfilled with children for the continuation of the human race.
johnnyM809 2 months ago
Basing your viewpoints on religion is just stupid.
atheistram 3 months ago
The term 'marriage' is inadequate to signify the matrimonial bond. Just about any two things can be married. A shovel is wood and metal married. The human marriage from which successfull societies flowed is more accurately understood as the matrimonial bond.
matrimony
c.1300, from O.Fr. matremoine, from L. matrimonium "wedlock, marriage," from matrem (nom. mater) "mother" + -monium, suffix signifying "action, state, condition." Related: Matrimonial.
dwizkerz 6 months ago
The word "marriage" is a human invention given human meaning. The word "marriage" came from the French word "marier" which means to join and a French suffix "-age" which means a state of being or condition, when combined, "marriage" means any joining with permanence--such as marrying/joining together two people or two boards of wood.
seahorse05 6 months ago 5
Lets abandon sin and honor God with our Bodies.
Markmyl 8 months ago
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In the journal of the French skeptic and essayist, Michel De Montaigne (1580-1581), he recorded Portuguese same-sex marriages celebrated in a nuptial mass in Rome: ".......They married one another, male to male, at Mass, with the same ceremonies with which we perform our marriages, read the same gospel service, and then went to bed and lived together. ..." Shortly thereafter Catholic authorities found out about these marriages and had the men who got married to each other burned to death.
seahorse05 8 months ago 28
Marriage has changed throughout history, place and cultures: Lakota chief Crazy Horse had one or two male spouse(s) and many other Native American nations also had what we call same-sex marriages. Ethnographers have documented this. Examples: Omahas, Zapotecs, Mohaves, Crow, Ojibwa, Winnebago, Yuma and more. Other cultures too. In 17th century Fukian Province China, same-sex marriages between gay men seem to have been common. And in West Africa, "woman marriage[s]"---a practice by many tribes.
seahorse05 8 months ago 31
@seahorse05 This is so rare so unknown that it is laughable as it is perhaps misunderstood ....
The fact is is homosexuality is as widespread as you supporters of it believe then there's NO WAY the human race would have propsered and multiplied the way it is.
MasterWooten 7 months ago
@seahorse05 You just made that shit up. I studied anthropology and there is no evidence for anything you just said. There is not a single known culture in the world that treats the union of two men or two women the same as it treat an opposite-sex union or a mother and a father. You made that shit up and just assume you were right in the name of cultural reletavism.
muel0341 4 months ago
@muel0341 Read ...check it out from a library or buy it on Amazon...." Same-Sex Marriage: Pro and Con A Reader" (1994) edited and with an introduction by Andrew Sullivan. Try some real research, then please apologize to me for your unsupported and ignorant allegations you levied against my character. Let me know when you finish reading it. Take notes too.
seahorse05 4 months ago 4
@seahorse05 After doing some research on this 'andrew sullivan' character - one can discover quite readily that he has no significant background in anthropology, sociology or any related field. Just because someone has a blog doesn't mean they are credible. I have a degree in anthropology from the University of Minnesota and I know native american culture quite well- your claim that there was a functional equivalent for ss marriage in early native cultures is unsustainable.
muel0341 4 months ago
@muel0341 "In 1542, one of the earliest Spanish explorers in Florida, Cabeza de Vaca, reported on his previous five years among the Timucua Indians: "During the time I was thus among these people I saw a devilish thing, and it is that I saw one man married to another." ... ." "A Normal Man" by Walter L. Williams from "The Spirit and the Flesh" by Walter L. Williams, 1986 ...on page 35 of Same-Sex Marriage Pro/Con A Reader edited by Andrew Sullivan. " A Reader " is a compilation writers.
seahorse05 4 months ago 4
@seahorse05 Yeah and Im sure that the native Hawaiians really believed that captain cook was God too huh? Anyone with a background in anthropology knows that you can't take these things at face value. It is extremely likely that Mr Vaca misinterpreted the relationship. Again - I repeat - there is no known culture in which there is a functional equivalent of marriage for same sex couples. Colonists and explorers are notorious for getting these kinds of things horribly wrong.
muel0341 4 months ago
@muel0341 Page 36 Sullivan Reader, excerpt by Walter L. Williams:"An ethnographer of the Omahas wrote in the 1880s: "Mingu-ga [mexoga] took other men as their husbands. Frank La Fleche knew one such man, who had had several men as his husbands...[They] are publicly known, and do not appear to be despised or to excite disgust." On p. 36; "Marriage between a berdache and a man existed in the context of the general position of marriage in aboriginal American Indian society. ..."
seahorse05 4 months ago 6
@muel0341 For for understanding about "marriage," also find and read the essay, "Here's Your 'Traditional Marriage'" by Patrick Ryan, associate professor of childhood and social institutions at the University of Western Ontario. You can find that essay online (the free library by farlex) searching the title plus author: "Here's Your 'Traditional Marriage'" by Patrick Ryan
---It will increase your understanding of "marriage."
seahorse05 4 months ago 3
@seahorse05 Firstly, you cannot derive and ought from an is. Second, even if these sources are valid (which I dispute) - to define marriage as anything other than man and woman has drastic consequences for child raising. Everyone deserves to be raised by their mother and father. Children not raised by their own mothers and fathers do not do as well as those who are. Lastly the condition of homosexuals has continued to decline even in the countries that have legislated ss marriage.
muel0341 4 months ago
@seahorse05 These are good facts, but they do not make a good argument. The fact that many cultures have different moral views doens't mean they are morally right. For instance, some cultures practiced human sacrifice and female infanticide. This fact that this is true does not purify the act.
Here we are seeking the natural moral order inherent in things by their nature. Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.
ProfileStudio 1 month ago
@ProfileStudio You wrote, " .... the natural moral order inherent in things by their nature. Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."
The natural moral order inherent in things by their nature? Is a call for gay people to be gay and if equal civil marriage helps them in their life, so be it. Equal protection of the law(s) and due process demands it. And your last sentence is a subjective Catholic dogma statement that has no merit and is inherently destructive and totally negative.
seahorse05 1 month ago
@ProfileStudio You're imposing your own moral judgment by saying "Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." Way to be a hypocrite.
atheistram 2 weeks ago
@atheistram I would disagree with the term impose. I cannot force by belief on anyone. I preach it, if it rings true to you, you may accept it. If it offends you, you may leave it. My goal is to have the Church's teaching clearly understood. Agree or disagree, I have little concern about, and I certainly don't use force to make you agree. THAT would be an imposition.
ProfileStudio 2 weeks ago
I'm so sick of catholics trying to push thier silly beliefs on everyone. Go swallow some of your magic cookies!
skewlboypin 8 months ago
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Check out my YouTube channel/playlists and websites for present-truth materials, Three Angels' Messages and God's last-mercy warning to His people in these last days.
Papacy = Antichrist / Little Horn / Beast from the Sea
Roman Catholicism = Whore of Babylon
Investigative Judgement has commenced in 1844 (1st Angel’s Message)
Ellen G. White, 1827-1915 = End-time Prophet Sent of God
7th-day Sabbath = Seal of God
Sunday Worship to be Enforced as Mark of the Beast"
SeventhDayRemnant 9 months ago
The CCC 2358 does NOT read that aberrosexuals (those who engage in biologically aberrant sexual behavior) "do not choose" their aberrosexual conduct. There is absolutely NO clinical or scientific evidence to support such a claim. Sexual behavior and practices are freely chosen. Nature does not force anyone to engage in biologically aberrant sexual or pseudo sexual behavior. The "Homosexual Marriage" video above spreads false and misleading information in this regard. Please be aware of it.
Aberrosexualismo 9 months ago
@Aberrosexualismo While you are correct that the revised CCC reference no longer contains the "do not choose" clause, you have made a mistake. The old CCC 2358 does not say that homosexual persons do not choose their conduct, but rather the inclination. That is a very large distinction to miss. Further the video does not spread the idea that "nature forces" anyone to make any sexual behavior. The revised CCC quote really changes nothing of the teaching of this video.
Slatteryan 9 months ago
@Slatteryan According to the video, the old CCC 2358 states that homosexuals do not choose their homosexual "condition," not "inclination" as you state. Aberrosexualism (aka homosexualism) is not a condition, however. It is a behavior, a conduct; as is adultery, shoplifting, etc. They are not conditions. Additionally, there is no scientific or clinical data to support the statement that "for most of them it (their homosexual behavior) is a trial." The statement is false and should be deleted.
UnaVoceMiami 9 months ago
@Aberrosexualismo The argument is a moral not scientific one. It is based on what is right versus what is wrong not what is possible to do. I can kill you.... that's very possible if you were standing before me. The question asked here is would that killing be right (moral or justified). If we all acted because it were possible as opposed to what is moral .... well our world is full of that and God willing you already haven't been a personal victim of that conduct.
MasterWooten 7 months ago
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Aberrosexualismo 9 months ago
@brianh406 It was Ancient Rome for the love of God!
mepoindexter 10 months ago
@brianh406 I don't disagree that homosexuality has been around in various forms throughout history. But I'd never do the Ancient Roman Empire a disjustice by calling them "morally acceptable".
mepoindexter 10 months ago
Hardly. If anything, the concept of homosexuality being morally acceptable is new on the scene (i.e. last 20 to 30 years).
mepoindexter 10 months ago
@brianh406 ... Hey, hey, the struggle's not going to be easy and nobody's told us it would be but we must go on and on and try somehow to support eachother even if Geography's put us aside. It's ONE FIGHT, ONE PEOPLE, ONE GOAL! I read some saying to you here that you're a representative of the 'homosexual' they'd be ashamed to be associated with you and I tell you that I'm very proud with my head held high to be associated with you! God bless us homosexuals and good ones!!!
EqualityWarrior 11 months ago
I could use many verses in the same BIBLE that would corroborate my opinions about same sex relationships yet as I simply had enough of the whole religious bullshit I'm not even discussing that subject! Unless any ridiculous bigot decides to try my brain. What the others cannot deny us anywhere in the globe is our civil rights! About the religious marriage ceremony, I really couldn’t care less about that as the Pope, the Queen or any other religious leader won’t pay my bills!!!
EqualityWarrior 11 months ago
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EqualityWarrior 11 months ago
I just find too funny as they try and use the BIBLE to corroborate their personal hatred and homophobic conceptions about their supposedly perfect life with a mummy-daddy-babies’ realm world... Give me a break, folks! There are sterile people in this planet and some children will never even meet their biological parents!
EqualityWarrior 11 months ago
@brianh406 Nope.
mepoindexter 11 months ago
@brianh406 Why is it ok for one group of people to voice their oppinion and not another? Also, our God is incapable of hate.
There are bad and good people everywhere. They exist in the Catholic religion - those who hate gay people (because true Catholics do not hate anyone). But they also exist in the homosexual community - those who hate Catholics.
However, regardless of what organization you belong to, good people have one thing in common - they love. And it should be enough to coexist
OrColors 11 months ago
@brianh406 Considering human sexuality is sacred then yes, by engaging in relations with a man you do dehumanize yourself.
mepoindexter 11 months ago
@mepoindexter human sexuality is sacred? Say what? Where did you get that silly notion? Sexuality is meant for pleasure first and foremost, and procreation is a secondary consideration. Just ask the animal kingdom which not only engages in homosexual activity in great numbers, but also has sex for pleasure as well. It has been well documented and can no longer be denied. It was human beings that "projected" religious meaning onto sex, this is not nature in any sense of the word.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut Wow, I think you just proved my point,
mepoindexter 10 months ago
@mepoindexter maybe you can explain what you meant by that? My argument made sense, your argument didn't. Please tell me how sexuality is sacred. It's the stupidest thing I've heard all day. Human beings created god, and human beings invented the concept of sin. Human beings also invented the concept of "sacred." Sexuality isn't sacred, it's a part of nature, stupid. And, no, nature isn't sacred either.
lisztnut 10 months ago
@mepoindexter are you also aware that marriage, in its original form, had nothing to do with religion whatsoever? In fact, the origins of marriage are in Paganism and were a group ritual. The concept of one man/one woman is fairly new on the scene. Read your bible, and you'll see that polygamy was the norm.
lisztnut 10 months ago
@brianh406 I'm never going to be in the same boat as you..
your comments drain away my intellectual capacity :)
I have better things to do then to argue down all the strawmen you put up...
have fun with your sorry life... If you;re a representative of the 'homosexual' I'll be ashamed to be associated with you. Good bye and may you fare well.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@brianh406 I am part of that minority :)
why only atheist can be gay? you're the one dehumanizing yourself btw,
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
Well not all of them but certainly people like louis farakhan are :) and you're certainly his type.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@brianh406 did I say that? :) or is that what you'd like to believe.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@brianh406 The same can be said for fanatics in the 'gay rights' movement. Whom I consider nothing more than gay 'Talibans'... the same breed under a different guise.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@brianh406 militants never win.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@brianh406 no you aren't :)
you're making their plight much more worse than it already is...
you Play a hand in homophobia.,, yes you :)
so congratulations and thank you for your kindness.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@brianh406 thak you for your kindness :)
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
No, you cannot get a horse by mating two male horses. There are only properly ordered or disordered sexual actions, we are talking about the natural law. A left handed person does not act deficiently when they use their left arm or hand to act, but someone with same sex attraction uses the sexual faculty- the faculty for creating life- deficiently as same sex acts are perfectly sterile, totally at odds for the purpose of the sexual faculty ( procreation). The two things are NOT comparable.
r5t9m0 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 several studies have revealed that homosexuality is passed through the mother's side of one's family. In my own family I have three of five cousins on my mother's side who are gay. There are no gay cousins on my father's side. SImiliarly, left handedness is passed from one generation to another. There is no question that there is a genetic component to it. Scientists don't believe they will find a gay gene, because it probably doesn't exist. It is more complex than just genes.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 some gay activists are strongly against research into a gay gene. They feel that the right wing nutjobs might want to abort gay fetuses if such a gene were located. Incidentally, researchers in Sweden claim that they will be able to predict sexual orientation before birth in the future. It was based on a 2008 brain study, which showed that gay men and women have different brain sizes from straights. Gay men outperform straights in tests involving verbal/cognitive skills.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 speaking of homosexuality in animals, I highly recommend you talk to a sheep farmer. They will tell you that there is a certain percentage of sheep in every herd that will not breed with the opposite sex no matter what they try to get them to do. It is natural for them to mate only with same sex partners. There is a species of bighorn sheep in which the male population participates in anal intercourse to ejaculation. They reject any sheep that won't participate. Disordered? NO!
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 you continue to operate from the false presumption that the purpose of sex is procreation. I'm here to educate you to the fact that this is not true. Sex is for pleasure first and foremost. Procreation is secondary.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 if I might ask a personal question of you. You can ignore it if you'd like, but it's something I'm curious about. Do you participate in any sexual activity that doesn't directly involve procreative goals? In other words, do you masturbate, have oral sex, or any other activity of that sort? If you do, then how is that any different from homosexual sex? Incidentally, I'm not necessarily a huge fan of anal intercourse. I prefer oral sex myself. Sorry if this is too personal for you.
lisztnut 11 months ago
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@brianh406 and i am not a bigot
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@brianh406 the Catholic church has been my only safe place...
it has shown me the dignity of being a human being...
I like other men... and they have shown me WHY!
and this feeling is a by product of a greater nature that all gay people have!
We are effeminate for a reason... and I wont use my hate on another institution to promote m cause..
because that wont help gays... it will further destroy our cause... I will pray for you to see life as I do.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva "it has shown me the dignity of being a human being..."
OH pa-leeeeease. Save it. I am straight and i have a gay brother who is very HAPPY and successful with many many gay MARRIED friends who are doing exceptionally well.
"because that wont help gays"....psst, hey dummy, gays dont need help, they need exceptance from intolerant Bible Thumping MORONS.
Keep your fairy tale beliefs out of others right to equality in this life.
Pray? oh yeah, to Sky Command.
fitasafiddle123 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva wow, I feel so sorry for you that I hardly know where to begin. Although i must say that I do appreciate that the Catholic church recognizes that being homosexual is something that is innate and immutable, their draconian approach of forcing gays into a life of celibacy is decidely not the the answer. Human beings are sexual by nature, and to deny one's sexuality is like denying your gender or race. I hope you realize the reason why Catholics preach against homosexuality.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva the Catholic notion that sexuality exists only for the purpose of procreation is laughable. First off, it is clear that the primary function of sexuality is pleasure. Procreation is often an untended consequence of sexual behavior. In fact, for every 10,000 acts of sexual intercourse it results in ONE pregnancy (my own estimate). So, how could you say that sex exists for procreation first and foremost? Even animals participate in homosexual sex for pleasure.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva what breaks my heart is to read that you would deny your sexuality simply because some people have misused and misinterpreted the bible in order to get you to deny who you are as a human being. That's tragic. Science has proven that sexual orientation is innate and not something we choose. So, why would you go against nature just because of some people's narrow misinterpretation of the bible?
lisztnut 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva I was raised Protestant, and I was taught that sex is for pleasure and that birth control is a good thing, as it involves procreating responsibly. I feel that the Catholic view of birth control as a sin is absolutely criminal. There are third world Catholic countries around the world where the population growth is out of control. I directly blame the Catholic church for the tragedy that happened in Haiti regarding the deaths of so many people in the earthquake (too many people
lisztnut 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva would you have agreed with the Catholic church if they had told you it was wrong to be a female? It is no different from them telling you that it is wrong to be homosexual or "behave" as a homosexual. I believe that gay people should behave as gay people and straights as straights. Asking a gay person to deny their sexuality, simply because it doesn't fall in line with their church doctrine, is shameful.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut When has the Catholic Church ever agreed that it was wrong to be Homosexual?
All they ever say is...if you're Gay FINE but have some dignity. If you're a male FIne but have some dignity! If you're female FINE but have some dignity! No one is asking anybody to deny their sexuality...
At the same time, no one is forcing anyone to become Catholic...
who are you to change the Church that I belief in and find comfort in? Who am I to change your belief where you find comfort in? Cont*
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva I feel so sorry for you, because you view something that is a PART of who you are as defective. This is no way to live. You need to EMBRACE your homosexuality not fight against it. It makes no sense for you to ignore this part of who you are. This can only lead to dire consequences in your psyche. It's NOT healthy, trust me on that. Celibacy doesn't work for Catholic priests, so why should it work for you? Christians of other denominations condemn celibacy.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut I have EMBRACED my Homosexuality with the blessing of the Church... :)
No need to feel sorry for me... I view nothing of myself as 'defective'...
I am not AGAINST people having sex with each other... if thats what they want
All I want For myself is A bit of Human Dignity...
Being gay is not about flashing my dick to every first Gay person I see...
Celibacy Works, oh trust me it does. But not for everyone...
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut Most of our Saints are called to live dedicated lives of chastity not for the sake of chastity but for the sake of denying ourselves to help others...! and in turn helping ourselves too...
But the Church understands and acknowledges how hard it is to be Holy like a Saint and to follow in Christs footsteps.. and She tries her very best to encourage us Catholics...I want to belive that my 'sexuality' means something more to my person! and the Church has taught me this cont*
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut My sexuality (whether Gay-like me-, Straight -like you perhaps-, or bi) has to pertain to something greater... am I attracted to men because I want to have sex with men? or is it because my person desires and yearns for masculinity? The Church teaches me to stop looking at my orientation in a one sided sex-only manner but as in a Holistic (including physical, mental and spiritual) manner... Where rather than looking at myself as a person with a peculiar cont*
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut behaviour, I can view myself as a normal human being who has a sex-drive (like anyone else) and who does not want to make that the essential purpose of my entire being.,,
I am gay, I did not choose it, but I am... so now what? do I go around having sex with other men? My boyfriend asked me to have sex with him and I refused... am I less gay than he is? What does being gay even mean? I am a man in essence, but I am not like most men I am effeminate...and that has to count for something
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
and fyi, the Church does not say..."Andrzej, stop being gay" Instead it says " Andrzej, you're gay, you cannot change your condition, all we hope for is for you to live with human dignity- to avoid the dangers of becoming a whore to other men who will only use you and throw you away but to look for solidarity and love instead from your fellow men. And If you can please try and abstain and remain chaste according to the teachings if Christ through the Gospels." Whats wrong and evil in this?
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva *Try your very best to abstain and not stop trying*
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva I see you have bought the mythological teachings of your evil church, and I do think the Catholic church is evil to its very core. The Catholic church has done more harm than good in the world. Just think of what was done around the world in the "name of Jesus." Entire cultures have been decimated, and yes, people have been KILLED by missionaries. There is no question abou this. And, you continue to support this institution? What about the teachings against birth control
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut I suggest you learn history...
Missionaries may have commited attrocities...
But the main culprits were the Monarchies Who used religion and their soldiers to gain wealth...
and more often than not it were the missionaries (in both Japan and the America's) who as the very first anhropologists tried their best to preserve and understand the culture of the natives... many times giving up with their lives along with the natives...
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva Yes, I happen to think that missionaries have done more harm than good in the world. I view the complete dismissal of some people's cultures to be offensive. What gave them the right to go into South America and Africa and slaughter the native people, and decimate their culture? It's just immoral. I know they had the best of intentions. They were attempting to "spread the good news of Jesus," but the end result was the ruination of people's cultures. It's sickening.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut I'm sorry in this I really have to disagree...
A lot of the things you know and understand today in this world are caused by missionaries...
The fields of Anthropology, Sociology, Seismology, some parts of quantum physics (including the big bang theory), Philosophy, Mathematics, Botany, Astronomy (the moon has 37 craters named after catholic priests) etc were pionnered by missionaries and Catholic priests...
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut The Catholic missionaries if anything should be lauded for their benevolent attmpts to save and preserve culture... just read about the Catholic Missions (missionaries are not conquistadors) in Japan and China...
yes there are always bad apples... yet in many cases it is because of them that some of the culture of these places actually flourished and were not wiped out... Apart from psychology i did a minor in sociology so trust me... I of all people should know the evils of my Church
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut as well as the immense goodness it has brought to so many and is still bringing...
I know what you'll say... Catholics are bigota etc etc trust me being gay in this Church is not easy...
but The Church herself is protecting me and trying to put sense to Catholics... to accpet me and not hate me... and I need to help My Church, my beloved institution, do this...
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut I know for sure that you are a good person...
And i honestly dont care what you think my beliefs portray me as....
all I ask is, exactly what you're asking, look at what i believe with understanding...
this world is made up of a spectrum of people ranging from everything to everything...
There is no one way that is trulyy right or wrong... but we're here together on earth not to judge or scrutinize but to understand... I believe in God, so? does that make me different?
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva I've been to South America on five trips. I was told how the European missionaries came there and literally killed off the Indian people. I suggest you study on this history, as well. You might like the movie "The Mission" which tells of the slaughter of Indians at the hands of Catholic missionaries. You will never view your church the same way after viewing this movie.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut I have watched the Mission :) and I clearly remember the missionaries sacrificing their lives along with the natives =.=
The movie was actually trying to depict the exact opposite of what your saying gawsh!
You didn't even watch it!!
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut forgive me... maybe you should watch it again... try and see what the movie was actually trying to say..
it actually is one of my favourite movies along with hotel rwanda...
Watch it again with a holistic mind and you will be surprrised at what you find. Pax Tecum brother.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva and, the fact that you view a gay relationship as something inferior to straight relationships is very sad, indeed. I am married to my husband, and our relationship is in way different from a straight marriage. We opted not to have children in our family, but many straight married couples do the same (at least in America). When you view your relationships with men on a purely sexual nature it is YOU that have the problem, not me. I married my husband because I love him.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut I do not view Homosexual relationships as inferior...show me where you thought you saw this?
I just like to clarify that the term 'marriage' is a religious institution for the Catholic Church and I belive they reserve the right to keep it that way in its originality (if you dont like being Catholic no one asks you to remain one )...
I firmly belive that... And Homosexual relationships are not inferior, they just do not fit the criteria for a Catholic marriage.. so go somewehere else!
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva and, I continue to assert that viewing your sexuality through the eyes of pure lust and sexual desire shows me that you are very immature. My sexual activity doesn't define me, nor my relationship with my husband. I have a heathly relationship on all levels. My husband is a therapist, and he says that most of his couples who are straight are far worse off than the gay couples. Gay couples know how to communicate whereas a man and a woman are clueless.
lisztnut 11 months ago
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andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut Well in this case I agree that my view is subjective, and I wish you and your husband a happy 'marriage'.. sincerely... but see I am strugling with sex... I have been taught by the 'gay culture' to view my sexuality as purely nothing but 'sex' the love bit rarely even occurs to most of my friends when they were teenagers... I had a boyfriend...and I loved him... so dont tell me that I dont know what you're saying... I KNOW EXACTLY what you're saying... but all he ever wanted was sex!
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut Do think that Orthodox (orthodox meaning those who truly are catholic in belife and practice and not in name only) Catholic heterosexual men think of sex as their entire reason of being? Do normal heterosexuals think of sex all the time? yes you may say that you do... but does your entire life spin around your sexual orientation? No you (they) live a normal life of which sex (in thought, word, or action) with the oppsite gender is a part of but not the 'main-course' of your daily life!
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
Its hard for me to agree with the 'mainstream' gay culture...who seems to only revolve around the sexulity of their nature! and not the source of their sexuality! If you're even getting this I salute you... If you can't understand what I'm trying to say, well you're just the same as the rest of the world who seems to think there is only one way around things.,, and I do feel sorry for this type of people... because these people will never find fulfillment and joy in living... Pax Christi.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut Also as a final note: Whe I say 'The Church' I quote and follow the official teachings of the Catholic Church as stated in Canon Law as well as the Cathecism... Official means what is written and not merely what some priest, nun, bishop happened to have 'commented or addressed'. This is as official as it gets...
and as a Student of Psychology trust me even the APA cannot get to this level of official-ness.
In Nomine Iesu Christi.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva Meaning: if some Priest were to say " gays should burn in hell" or " Gays are not worthy of Gods love" or " Gays should die" etc... that is not official...
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva let's look at the surface of what you believe and what I believe:
1 You believe in talking snakes, men living to 900, women turning to salt and the earth is 6000 years old.
2 I believe that snakes can't talk, men don't live to 900, women don't turn to salt, and the earth is billions of years old. Mankind has been on earth for 1.5 million years, which was 1.4 million years BEFORE Adam and Eve were "created." Now, who is more sane, and intelligent, me or you?
lisztnut 11 months ago
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andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut hahah you see this why you think you hate the 'Catholic church' because you think we are like the average evangelical christian who will belive everything the bible says... but no... I used to think like you in my atheistic days (if i may so call it that :) ) but I learned from the Church that the bible cannot be taken literally... The adam and eve story for example is just a depiction (extremely symbolic) of creation... to understand the bible really well , (cont)
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
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andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva... of creation... to understand the bible really well , (cont)
one has to be fluent in Latin, Koine Greek and be aware of the cultural influences of the time (In Context of that time) For example... when Jesus says: "it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of the needle than for a sinful man to pass to the kingdom of heaven" this line if taken literally denotes impossibilty but the eye of the needle was really a name for a gate to the ancient (roman held) city of Jerusalem...
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@lisztnut and when travellers with their camels want to pass through... they first needed to unload luggage off the camels, move the camel through...and then carry the luggage one by one... the hassle of doing this prompted Christs's comment... So you see? If one actually understands the Bible through the actual teachings of Catholicism (through the Church Fathers, and the saints etc) One gets a very down to earth picture of things... Thats what caught my eye in Catholicism, its scholasticity!
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva I believe that religion is like Santa Claus for adults. It's all a myth. You won't get "eternal life" simply because you believe that crap. Trust me on that. Human beings created the concept of "sin" and then developed a "cure" known as religion. You have to consider who it was that invented religion and god.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut Well good for you on WHAT you belive! am I going to judge you? NO! but you have... so congratulations.. you know there was a tme when I hated the Church for all the 'vile things that she had seemingy done' I hated evangelicals for their 'forceful' and 'psychological blackmailing' then I became atheist... And I found the exact same people there as well albeit without religion... so I asked myself "Are we different with or without religion?" No... we are the same.....
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva I'm glad that you at least have taken the time to figure out where you stand when it comes to religion. I respect you for this. I also respect your wonderful command of English, by the way! Sorry I don't speak Polish. I studied Russian, which is similar, but I'm not fluent in the language by any means.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut Dzięks (thanks) :D Well i decided since I'm being hated everywhere i will do something better: my studies has been my only comfort... psychology, sociology, history, philosphy and languages ;D I have one life so make everything count :) Maybe someday I can be the change I want to see in this world and in my Church...
you are a good person (the other two people brian and fitsafiddle are the exact people i deal with in my daily life...)...you have taken time of to understand...Salute :)
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva I came away from The Mission with the complete opposite feeling that you had. Yes, the missionaries DEFIED the evil Catholic leadership and were thus the subject of the same slaughter that the natives were victims of. This is what I learned. There are brave Catholic priests who are now standing up for what they believe in too. In California we recently had a priest who came out in strong support of gay marriage. He was REMOVED from his priestly duties by the leadership.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva my husband was raised Catholic, and now works at a Jesuit university. I understand that Catholics are generally more educated and interested in education than are Evangelicals. In America many Evangelical Christians take their kids out of public schools because they don't want them exposed to REAL science. If the kids learn that the earth is billions of years old, not 6000 years as the bible says, they are upset about it.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva I think all religious fundmentalism can lead to nothing but bad things. When you take a book, such as the bible, and attempt to take every word literally you WILL have problems. But, most Evangelical Christians take what they want to believe and ignore the rest. The same verses that supposedly condemn homosexuality also condemn the eating of shrimp, wearing mixed fabrics, sleeping in a bed where semen has been spilled, and touching a menstruating woman. They ignore that.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva I'm sorry that we don't live closer to one another, because I'm certain we could become very good friends, despite our differences in our beliefs. I think you are a highly educated and thoughtful person, and it is rare today to encounter people such as yourself. One of my former piano teachers is Polish and he lives in Warsaw. You share the same first name, by the way. I'm a concert pianist by profession and have performed around the world, but not in Poland yet.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut I'm sorry for that too!
Thank you for your friendship...
it means much...
also will correspond with you soon...
Take care and be happy.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva and, I find it remarkable that you could fall for Catholicism rather than a more legitimate Christian sect. The nonsense that Catholics believe is truly astonishing. These include: drinking the ACTUAL blood of Jesus during communion. Praying to statutes (which is considered BLASPHEMY in other Christian sects), Worshipping Mary (also BLASPHEMY). Chanting and holding beads. Birth control is a sin (this one REALLY makes me angry, considering the fact of overpopulation).
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut Legitimite Christian sect? Now that is very subjective...
According to my understanding together with 2000 years of history the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (Catholic and Orthodox) are the only true claimants of legitimacy...
Christianity is both Catholic and Orthodox... and before you try to act smart... I suggest you actually learn whether those 'alleged practices' you mentioned are true or not...
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@lisztnut I find it remarkable how you asserted that you Atheist..and the proceeded directly to condemn anther religion as heretical using another religion as a benchmark...should not all religion be illegitimite to you people? Why the insincerity? Recap:
1) You claimed to be Atheist
2) You dissed my religion
3) You exalted another religion (indirectly).
confused much?
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva Well, I should clarify what I was saying regarding Catholicism and Protestantism. My father's an Evangelical minister, so of course I was brainwashed in his form of Christianity. My mother to this day insists that Catholics won't go to heaven! She thinks Catholics aren't Christians, so this attitude rubbed off on me, unfortunately.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva one more thing. I want to say that I'm happy that you have found your happiness. As for me, I could NEVER deny who I am nor deny my sexual orientation. I am a sexual being, and I believe I was born as a gay person. To ignore this is to be untrue to myself. I understood this very early on in my life. I also realized that belief in god was not something that I could fall into. I feel that people who believe in god are weak Sorry, but I do.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut thank you :)
But if you live life the way I do you'll actually understand the immense strenght it takes to walk out there and tell a Catholic I'm gay and to tell a gay I'm Catholic... it usually ends up in hurt from both sides (which leads me to question the difference between both groups, are they different? they both hurt me the same)... but hey I'm not leaving I am Staying put :) I am going to carry this Cross to the end... thats with it means ultimately.
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@brianh406 I am from Courage,
A catholic homosexual group...
we are encouraged to remain celibate and to explore the other side of our homosexual nature..
the emotional and the spiritual side...
I dont believe that being gay is merely having sex witn other men..
it is more than that... I am effeminate for a reason and that reason is NOT to have sex with other men...
I am attracted to them... and yes I have a sexual drive... but that is not the only thing that makes me gay!
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva If YOU want to remain celibate, KNOCK your socks off, its a free country, BUT dont push your fairy tale threats on others from that Story book you rely on.
Btw, snakes cant talk, burning bushes dont talk, and bread did NOT fall from the skies.
You do MORE harm than good in your efforts to 'change' people. And the only reason YOU change is because of fear put upon you by Bible Thumping morons.
No offense
fitasafiddle123 11 months ago
@brianh406 this is the view of the church and almost half of its adherents...
it applies only to Catholics...because this is what Christ and all the saints after him have taught...
if you dont like it... move on and do what you like...
but it is my duty to tell you that we (according to the official position of the Church) do not hate gays!
you have the westboro baptist church for that...
Is it wrong for homosexuals to have dignity? Is being homosexual merely a physical thing?
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@andrzejnher4eva And SINCE you follow the Babble, I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
Also, I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.
So now what, going to make up some excuses as is the case all the TIME!...pfft
fitasafiddle123 11 months ago
@fitasafiddle123 I LOVE that: "Babble!" Good one, my friend!
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut LMAO, i know "eh"
Btw, i find it very strange that these Catholics ignore the past history of the Catholic Church...my GAWD, what a horror story it is and the deaths that they caused in the name of the poison that is RELIGION....
VOMIT GAG GASP...
lol
fitasafiddle123 11 months ago
@brianh406 My later post did not get posted sorry for that...
The Church encourages holiness in everything...This applies ONLY TO CATHOLICS...
if you don't want to you are not forced to stay..
Sex is a beautiful thing reserved only for a MARRIED MAN and WOMAN.
so even non-married heterosexuals are not supposed to have sex...
not because it is wrong but because it is demeaning to each others bodies...
people will have sex only for pleasure and not as a union of love...
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
@brianh406 The Church does not say homosexuals do not 'exist' I thought that would've been made clear with "They do not choose their homosexual conditions"...
If you're a non-Catholic what I am about to say does not apply to you (although I implore you to try and understand the position and the culture of the Catholic church read on the lives of the Saints)...
The Church encourages Holiness in everything *cont*
andrzejnher4eva 11 months ago
1.) The bible only talks about anti-homosexuality in the Old Testament. Jesus never spoke against homosexuals.
2.) Since other morals and customs are no longer required (like eating pork and circumsizing babies), why is homosexuality still morally wrong?
3.)For those who believe homosexuailty is wrong, they have never been truely in love .
4.) If God didnt want homosexuals, he would not have created it in the first place.
5.) The Church says to love everyone. Hypocrites.
amybc007 11 months ago
Which does the church hate more, women or sex? Or in other words, which will they relent on first, women priests or married priests? My bet is that they allow married priests in my lifetime. The advent of the internet and information communication has seriously hurt its numbers and it has to do something to change its image soon.
sketto 1 year ago
I BELIEVE IN HUMAN RYTS,,WE ALL KNOW ITS NOT GOOD TO DO THIS BUT WHO R WE TO JUDGE PIPOL LIKE US,LEAVE IT TO GOD,.LETS ALL RESPECT HUMANITY,..BEING GAY ISNT A SIN BUT THE LIFESTYLE OF A GAY IS THE SIN ITSELF,,
jackybrown12 1 year ago
The Bible is a nice fairy tale.
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ETHEUNICE 1 year ago
All genitalia and human bodies are "oriented" toward LIFE and Heterosexuality. The condition of the homosexual is due to a complex reaction to the enviroment they are raised in, and the failure of the sexuality to become properly ordered within the person. Homosexuality is not "hard wired" into the person, not in the genes, not in the body in any way, not in the genitalia but is in the personality due a complex reaction of a child to their enviroment.
r5t9m0 1 year ago
@r5t9m0 wow, I realize this is an old post, but you are so uneducated and uninformed as to make it necessary to educate you. No, you are quite wrong in everything you've said here. This is NO evidence that environment plays any role in the formation of sexual orientation. In fact, science says that sexual orientation is the result of a complex interplay of genes, hormones and other factors BEFORE birth. Homosexuality is similar to left handedness in that regard.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 I can only assume you don't think left handedness is a sin. I need to remind you that the concept of "sin" is a man-made concoction. God is also a creation of men. The people who wrote the bible inserted homosexuality as a sin because they didn't understand it at the time. It must be taken in the context of the times. People believed that sexuality existed for the sole purpose of procreation. This is patently false. Sexuality exists for pleasure first and foremost.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 if you don't believe me, you need only look to the animal kingdom. Animals mate with same sex partners for life in many species. It's been documented in 1000 species of animals or more. Therefore, homosexuality is equally as natural as heterosexuality, and it serves a biological function. Didn't you ever stop to wonder why there have always been homosexuals in the human population since the beginning of recorded time? Is it a fad? Hell no! There is a biological reason for it.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 and, if you think that the body is designed exclusively for heterosexuality, you make a grave mistake. Why is the male anatomy designed so that the ONLY method by which to please a man's most erogenous zone is the insertion of another man's penis? A woman can NEVER please a man this way, without the use of something artificial. Unfortunately, most heterosexual men have never experienced a true orgasm, because they don't have their prostate stimulated during intercourse.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 there is a reason that many male sheep prefer anal intercourse over vaginal intercourse. It just feels better.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 The American Academy of Pediatrics states:
"The current literature and most scholars in the field state that one's sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual. There is no scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation,"
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 The Royal College of Psychiatrists states:
" Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. It is therefore not a choice."
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 "Physical orientation and sexual orientation are not moral issues, and majority / minority phenomena in nature do not involve natural versus unnatural categories. The exceptional in nature is still natural, whether the exception is left-handedness or the homosexual orientation of erotic desire." D. Michael Quinn, ex-Mormon and former professor at Brigham Young University.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@lisztnut No, you cannot get a horse by mating two male horses. There are only properly ordered or disordered sexual actions, we are talking about the natural law. A left handed person does not act deficiently when they use their left arm or hand to act, but someone with same sex attraction uses the sexual faculty- the faculty for creating life- deficiently as same sex acts are perfectly sterile, totally at odds for the purpose of the sexual faculty ( life). The two things are NOT comparable.
r5t9m0 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 you clearly missed my point. I'm saying that homosexual sexual activity IS natural, and it serves a BIOLOGICAL function. Otherwise it would have not existed since the beginning of time. There is a reason that humans and some animals are primarily attracted to the same gender. And, I continue to assert that the purpose of sex is not procreation. If it were, then why do so many straight men visit prostitutes? Why does birth control exist?
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 I find it humorous, and rather desperate, that people such as yourself still cling to the notion that there is something wrong with homosexuals and homosexuality. Despite the fact that over 1000 species of animals have been documented as mating with same sex partners for LIFE, and the fact that humans have exhibited homosexual behavior since the beginning of time, you still cannot accept it because it doesn't fall in line with your small minded view of the world and your bible. Sad...
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 if you want to read more about the biological purpose for homosexuality, I recommend two things:
Youtube video: Homosexuality in the Animal Kingdom (National Geographic)
Book: Condundrum: The Evolution of Homosexuality by NJ Peters You will learn WHY homosexuality exists in nature.
lisztnut 11 months ago
@r5t9m0 it is revealing that left handed people were once treated as homosexuals are treated today. In fact, my own husband was subjected to a teacher who attempted to force him to use his right hand to write with, when he was born a left hander. His mother marched to school and demanded she stop what she was doing. Are you aware that roughly the same percentage of the population is left handed as is homosexual in orientaiton? There is stronge evidence of a genetic link in both phenomenon.
lisztnut 11 months ago
Christian attempts to put prayer into schools run directly counter to biblical teachings. Jesus said prayer should be a private affair devoid of public display: "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret..." Matthew 6:5-6
MyITRcom 1 year ago
Any one in America who is willing to step on anyone elses Liberty, Freedom and pursuit of happiness in the Name of Religion, deserves a Theocracy, and are about as un-American as you can get.
MyITRcom 1 year ago
@MyITRcom if you wanted to start your own church, I'd be the first member to sign up! Preach to me, my brother! Hallelujah!
lisztnut 1 year ago
@lisztnut Our Bible would be the US constitution, and instead of the Crap they teach in Sunday school, we would teach Critical thinking skills, Logic, Philosophy and how to analyze your own philosophy for corruption and viruses. My partner and I have thought about this for many years, the problem with my kind of church is it wouldn't have any followers, only self-thinking leaders.
MyITRcom 1 year ago
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GodCreatesGays2