Some claim that either you can follow a Creed or follow the Bible. This is a false dichotomy as it is limited to only two black and white possibilities when in fact infinite possibilities exists between the two.
Even the most die hard anti-Creed Pastor voices piles of Creeds every Sunday. They are not orderly. They are not all encompassing but they are statements of faith, which are Creeds.
Any Christian that speaks with his mouth and says openly,
"Jesus Christ is the son of God" has just uttered a Creed. They may not call it a creed but it is in fact a Creed.
If you call God "Father" you have just spoken a Creed. If you say that Jesus was "crucified" you have just spoken a Creed. You have spoken a Creed, made a statement of faith via setting in stone your belief system. THAT is a Creed.
Some Creeds are longer than other Creeds yet they are the same as those 4 words long.
how will you confess your unbelief if you are hiding it behind a creed.
I have seen it time and time again. there is madness and heresy on one hand, rick warren, joyner, bentley, etc and on the other hand legalist pharisaism, almost as if the point of truth is identified by being unoccupied.
you think you can come to true belief by stern intellectual effort? so much for believing in human helplessness
Faith without works is DEAD..... It's not an either/or choice. BOTH are required. Thus you BOTH go to extremes teaching false doctrine. Also, it is false doctrine to say that scripture is the "only" source of infallible truth. The actual source of infallible truth is God Himself. Scriptures, prophets, man, etc. are ALL fallible. Infallible truth can only be know through a trinity, that is the trinity of the Holy Spirit, Scripture, and True Prophets. Any other teaching is non-scriptural.
And you can't accept people into your church who have a different interpretation of scripture? Even scholars are often wrong. This church sounds elitist and cultist. If you refuse to agree are the members told not to fraternize with you even if they're family, so as not to be contaminated by evil ideas?
Wow, this is so laughable. All you have to do to get to heaven is suspend all logic and do what you are told "OR ELSE"! LOL If only these people could understand what the words "fact" and "truth" actually mean.
Y'know, God could just show up and clarify all this stuff? I ask, why doesn't he? Why doesn't an all loving and all forgiving God take the time to clarify everything by manifesting! Surely, with all that power of his it wouldn't take much effort.
Either he's lazy, he's not all loving/powerful/etc... or he doesn't exist.
all religion does is separate all of us, i suggest you read 2 books by a great and wise man by the name of Arthur Findlay one called 'The Curse of Ignorance Volume 1 and 2' . Also by the same author Arthur Findlay 'The Psychic Stream' which you can either Google or get at the 'The Psychic News' you can just Google that. Also check out this link which has free and very interesting vidoes about what is really going on in the world.
Maybe you should read clearly. Only God's Word can save and should be exalted is what I said ..Its a wrap when we read clearly.Jesu is the living Word
I personally believe that this purpose driven life movement will die as all fads do. I got caught up in it for a time then I realized that the churches I went to that emulated this philosophy became extremely luke warm and focused on feelings instead of doctrinal truth.
They fail to acknowledge the biblical truth that it is the Father who draws people to Christ, not men with their modern corporate feel good churches doing all they can not to look like a church.
If used properly can change the soul.lets make something clear nothing does what God's Word can do regardless of how close.God's Word is a Person the Living Word.Its dangerous to exalt any Word regardless of how accurate!
@polopowers1 It can probably change your mind set but not your soul only JESUS the WORD meaning LOGOS can change you in which saves your soul from going to hell do your home work!!! ITS A WRAP!!!
no matter how you see it, we are like subjects in a lab, like animals in a cage, slaves of habit, slaves just trying to survive,and in the end, really,what for? trying to avoid it by keeping busy works for me, i've studied all the worlds philosophies and religions, none can be the one,its every man,woman child for themselves,no guarantees, no fate or destiny,even if you win lifes battles, you are destined to die like all the rest, do you find this depressing or insightful?
really gregfiney,I used to think i knew things,now I truly believe in a random kind of order of things, no answer can suffice me, truly we are like animals in a pecking order thinking we are better positioned than others because of our education,our status, our finances,and so on, but look deeper, these are just illusions that will pass like smoke,anyhow,thats how I see it, thanks
"Creeds, confessions, and catechisms are necessary to A) Better explain the truth, B) Better defend the truth, C) Better secure the truth."
Better than whom? Than the prophets given the words? Than the Lord who gave them?
Better than Jesus Christ when HE spoke?
Satan's entire method of operation when tempting Christ was to take bits of Scripture and quote it. Today his churches do the same thing, picking the bits they *like* and writing up a creed around those misquoted pieces.
Try to read the contents of this Orthodox Christian Faith:
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father ; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.
And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
The churches today are just buildings with a few people inside them following a "program" or ritual. Churches are just social clubs. There's the Catholic club, the Mormon club, the jehovah witness club, the Kenneth Copeland club, the First church of Nazarene club, the Baptist club, the Methodist club, the Luthern club, and then all the
independent clubs each with a person at the top of the food chain or "money" chain.
Rick Warren has done more to damage the church than any other single person besides Satan and James Eugene Ewing, the father of modern properity gospel. Because of Warren's evil influence, I am hesitant to set foot in a so-called church because of heretical doctrine.
You are still responsible to repent and live for God's glory regardless of who is in a pulpit somewhere. Satan himself is no excuse not to repent and live in a state of righteousness. Rick Warren did not die on the cross. Jesus Christ did and will hold you accountable as well as Rick Warren. You are also still responsible to study for yourself and come to know and embrace the truth for yourself. Reformed and Puritan writings will set you in the right direction.
I once was at a church where the pastor says to the entire congregation "I know some of you don't agree with me but when we come to church I like to have Desert..." (meaning a fluff-feel good sermon) "...you get your meat and potatoes at your small group."
After that Sunday, I left. Small groups are great but someone at each should be taught the importance of exegetical examination of scripture rather than what usually happens at small groups.
"An unfriendly man pursues selfish ends; he defies all sound judgement. A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinion." (Prov. 18:1 and 2)
Jossher700, Amen!!! This One World Religion wraps all of:
1.) Transformational Marxism/Dialectic Process
2.) Freemasonary
3.) The Kaballa
4.) The Emergent/ing church
It's a False Peace and Security.
1 Thess 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Keep reading The Gospels, disciples!!! GLORY!!! for you will never be deceived!
Reading "Purpose Driven Life" I thought it was a good book. However, looking deeper, RW's theology focuses on works instead of faith and is fast moving to religious pluralism which what Biblical prophesy calls "One World Religion." I hope RW realizes this. Otherwise, he, Joel Osteen, TBN, have a lot to answer for. "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matt 24:24
If you haven't seen the videos I've posted called "Rick Warren Twisting Scripture", you should. It gives great insight as to where this man is standing biblically. He makes such statements as "One of our biggest mistakes is that we believe that prayer and preaching will grow a church. They will not."
zomg, he said that!? I was going to do a video series on this book because i just got it. i am on day 2 and it seems really nice so far. but to say you can get to heaven without repenting, which is what i have found on page 58 of the book, is really bad. I am going to read it all though. i am already a christian so i know that is wrong but the rest of the book might be ok.
If you do not grow a church by prayer and preaching then what are you growing? Are you growing wheat or are you growing tares. Are you growing sheep or goats? On judgment day God will separate the wheat from the tares the sheep from the goats.
Whatever you start something with is what you will have to keep up in doing in order to keep them coming back. They can always find some new novel idea somewhere else. Better to give them the truth for conscience sake and for the glory of God.
@Jossher700 I read it, it is good and I agree with it up to the point of Deeds. Because I thought that is why Jesus choose to die for our sins. He had to know he was going to be the one, and hang, and tied, and nailed through and all of that. Deeds can be fun, but it isn't why we're supposed to follow God and Jesus.
"The Purpose Driven Life has no purpose"? Whaaaat? I used a copy to prop my kitchen window open (rain, snow, or shine) for a couple of years! It was great! Every Christian who came into my kitchen laughed at the true purpose for that book. :D
LaneCh, are you a member of Kielar's church? How is CrossTV doing financially? It went off DirectTV a few months ago. I get home in a week and was hoping it was back on. It is sad, I get 8 so-called christian TV channels and only 2-3 shows are worth watching. The rest is just garbage.
Hey, I'm not a member of Kielar's church, but CrossTV is gracious enough to let me post clips of the DVD's on here. I'm not sure about their financial status. I know Kielar is pastoring a church right now. You can get many messages of his for free now including sermon videos. (firstboynton(.)com)
This fact alone, that the Gospel is foolishness to the perishing unbeliever, should cause us to question if Warren's "purposes" even contain anything related to the Gospel at all.
The fact that Warren's Purpose Driven Drivel has been so widely popular with both liberal churches and secular organizations should cause us to question the content of his books and ministry. After all, let us not forget the words of 1 Corinthians 1:18, "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
I heartily commend you for addressing this issue. I've seen how churches that adopt Rick Warren's methods produce anemic Christians, milquetoast teachings, and horrifically sloppy Bible study leaders. The Christian church needs to wake up RIGHT NOW!
It's true. The PDM has done so much harm by replacing God's holy standard with man's pragmatism. My former church went "Purpose" Driven a while back, and I had to leave.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with oldtruth dot com, but a man who was a former teacher at one of these churches set this website up to speak out against the pragmatism that's so prevalent these days. It's a great site.
Yes, I use the OldTruth website all the time. Sadly, many of my friends are caught up in the purpose-driven, seeker-oriented phenomenon. They see nothing wrong with it, and that breaks my heart.
The bible study group we were going to was studying this book for awhile. Having read many self help books as an underachieving youth it appeared to me Warren was simply plagiarizing other self help books. Needless to say, I didn't get anything out of the book, except an idea that some folks in the group perhaps didn't have a since of purpose.
Many people are sharing your same concern. There is a man named Jim Bublitz that actually taught at one of these "Purpose Driven churches" for years then finally got fed up with it. He now runs the website Oldtruth dot com. I recommend it. He takes current events in the church (purpose driven, seeker sensitive) and examines them Biblically.
well, we the orthodox have creeds not deeds, or we have dead deeds of law which are the same thing.
Is it any surprise that our sterile hypocrisy will encourage some to reject our creeds when our lives show we reject them ourselves?
there is FAR TOO MUCH finger pointing as regards the errors of the emergent or the purpose driven life types.
but it is easier to denounce heresy in others than repent of unbelief in ourselves
Strefanasha 6 months ago
Some claim that either you can follow a Creed or follow the Bible. This is a false dichotomy as it is limited to only two black and white possibilities when in fact infinite possibilities exists between the two.
Even the most die hard anti-Creed Pastor voices piles of Creeds every Sunday. They are not orderly. They are not all encompassing but they are statements of faith, which are Creeds.
maxtormaxtor 8 months ago
Any Christian that speaks with his mouth and says openly,
"Jesus Christ is the son of God" has just uttered a Creed. They may not call it a creed but it is in fact a Creed.
If you call God "Father" you have just spoken a Creed. If you say that Jesus was "crucified" you have just spoken a Creed. You have spoken a Creed, made a statement of faith via setting in stone your belief system. THAT is a Creed.
Some Creeds are longer than other Creeds yet they are the same as those 4 words long.
maxtormaxtor 8 months ago
you rely on a creed, not on the Holy Spirit.
how will you confess your unbelief if you are hiding it behind a creed.
I have seen it time and time again. there is madness and heresy on one hand, rick warren, joyner, bentley, etc and on the other hand legalist pharisaism, almost as if the point of truth is identified by being unoccupied.
you think you can come to true belief by stern intellectual effort? so much for believing in human helplessness
Strefanasha 9 months ago
reciting a creed, even an orthodox one like the apostles or the nicene, does not ensure belief. they legalistically conceal unbelief.
they are legalist
and when the creeds were used to justify persecuting heretics, as they were, what are they worth? only deed letter. true letter, but not believed.
worship your creeds if you like.
i will not move from subjectivism to legalism of thought.
you cant avoid pharisaism. this is how the carnal mind reacts, either pharisaism or modern sloppiness.
Strefanasha 9 months ago
Horse shit!!!
warwolfii 10 months ago
I was led here via Bill Maher.
He was much more relevant.
Candyliz2003 1 year ago
what a pile of excrement.
philster61 1 year ago
Faith without works is DEAD..... It's not an either/or choice. BOTH are required. Thus you BOTH go to extremes teaching false doctrine. Also, it is false doctrine to say that scripture is the "only" source of infallible truth. The actual source of infallible truth is God Himself. Scriptures, prophets, man, etc. are ALL fallible. Infallible truth can only be know through a trinity, that is the trinity of the Holy Spirit, Scripture, and True Prophets. Any other teaching is non-scriptural.
leeuniverse 1 year ago
Compassionately minister to him? Sounds fishy.
And you can't accept people into your church who have a different interpretation of scripture? Even scholars are often wrong. This church sounds elitist and cultist. If you refuse to agree are the members told not to fraternize with you even if they're family, so as not to be contaminated by evil ideas?
stevenp68 1 year ago
interesting how he emphasizes "truth" but not "evidence". Yet another fraudulent "pastor" out to fleece money from the gullible.
philster61 1 year ago
Good world Mark.
clsim88 1 year ago
Wow, this is so laughable. All you have to do to get to heaven is suspend all logic and do what you are told "OR ELSE"! LOL If only these people could understand what the words "fact" and "truth" actually mean.
connix69 1 year ago
lol, have fun up in heaven with Hitler.
AtheisticLiberator 1 year ago
Y'know, God could just show up and clarify all this stuff? I ask, why doesn't he? Why doesn't an all loving and all forgiving God take the time to clarify everything by manifesting! Surely, with all that power of his it wouldn't take much effort.
Either he's lazy, he's not all loving/powerful/etc... or he doesn't exist.
Sines314 1 year ago
Become saved and enlightened. Learn the real truth. Visit exposingchristianity dotcom.
griffynelvyncraft 1 year ago
Religion is so ridiculous
Safetyis0ff 1 year ago
Rick Warren is end time false prophet
clsim88 1 year ago
all religion does is separate all of us, i suggest you read 2 books by a great and wise man by the name of Arthur Findlay one called 'The Curse of Ignorance Volume 1 and 2' . Also by the same author Arthur Findlay 'The Psychic Stream' which you can either Google or get at the 'The Psychic News' you can just Google that. Also check out this link which has free and very interesting vidoes about what is really going on in the world.
hope this helps
wendylou57 1 year ago
Maybe you should read clearly. Only God's Word can save and should be exalted is what I said ..Its a wrap when we read clearly.Jesu is the living Word
polopowers1 2 years ago
I personally believe that this purpose driven life movement will die as all fads do. I got caught up in it for a time then I realized that the churches I went to that emulated this philosophy became extremely luke warm and focused on feelings instead of doctrinal truth.
They fail to acknowledge the biblical truth that it is the Father who draws people to Christ, not men with their modern corporate feel good churches doing all they can not to look like a church.
WHEELSRUP 2 years ago
If used properly can change the soul.lets make something clear nothing does what God's Word can do regardless of how close.God's Word is a Person the Living Word.Its dangerous to exalt any Word regardless of how accurate!
polopowers1 2 years ago
@polopowers1 It can probably change your mind set but not your soul only JESUS the WORD meaning LOGOS can change you in which saves your soul from going to hell do your home work!!! ITS A WRAP!!!
reosider 2 years ago
I don't trust anyone who dresses like this guy.
Like minded believers=Brainwashed.
kwiksteen 2 years ago
no matter how you see it, we are like subjects in a lab, like animals in a cage, slaves of habit, slaves just trying to survive,and in the end, really,what for? trying to avoid it by keeping busy works for me, i've studied all the worlds philosophies and religions, none can be the one,its every man,woman child for themselves,no guarantees, no fate or destiny,even if you win lifes battles, you are destined to die like all the rest, do you find this depressing or insightful?
grenda5 2 years ago
Comment removed
gregfliney 2 years ago
@grenda5 insightful
gregfliney 2 years ago
really gregfiney,I used to think i knew things,now I truly believe in a random kind of order of things, no answer can suffice me, truly we are like animals in a pecking order thinking we are better positioned than others because of our education,our status, our finances,and so on, but look deeper, these are just illusions that will pass like smoke,anyhow,thats how I see it, thanks
grenda5 2 years ago
Read the book!
"Creeds, confessions, and catechisms are necessary to A) Better explain the truth, B) Better defend the truth, C) Better secure the truth."
Better than whom? Than the prophets given the words? Than the Lord who gave them?
Better than Jesus Christ when HE spoke?
Satan's entire method of operation when tempting Christ was to take bits of Scripture and quote it. Today his churches do the same thing, picking the bits they *like* and writing up a creed around those misquoted pieces.
araeshkigal 2 years ago
Try to read the contents of this Orthodox Christian Faith:
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
masyanto 2 years ago
Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
masyanto 2 years ago
And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father ; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.
And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
masyanto 2 years ago
Comment removed
masyanto 2 years ago
Which one among these articles of the Creed of the Ancient One and Undivided Church that is unbiblical?
masyanto 2 years ago
The churches today are just buildings with a few people inside them following a "program" or ritual. Churches are just social clubs. There's the Catholic club, the Mormon club, the jehovah witness club, the Kenneth Copeland club, the First church of Nazarene club, the Baptist club, the Methodist club, the Luthern club, and then all the
independent clubs each with a person at the top of the food chain or "money" chain.
johnny102marvin 2 years ago
Rick Warren has done more to damage the church than any other single person besides Satan and James Eugene Ewing, the father of modern properity gospel. Because of Warren's evil influence, I am hesitant to set foot in a so-called church because of heretical doctrine.
WaltGe 2 years ago
You are still responsible to repent and live for God's glory regardless of who is in a pulpit somewhere. Satan himself is no excuse not to repent and live in a state of righteousness. Rick Warren did not die on the cross. Jesus Christ did and will hold you accountable as well as Rick Warren. You are also still responsible to study for yourself and come to know and embrace the truth for yourself. Reformed and Puritan writings will set you in the right direction.
parakeethands 2 years ago
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I may not be in a "church" but I do study the Lord's word. God Bless. You speak the truth!
WaltGe 2 years ago
rick warren is an agent
for the one world goverment
and one world inter-faith movement.
flee from this man made religion
weeweelegs 2 years ago 3
I have a video called THE purpose for life you should check it out and its nice to see good christian brothers and sisters here :)
91aLaing 2 years ago
WHO TO FOLLOW?
JESUS was born poor,
humble, in a manger.
Barefooted HE walked,
Rode on a donkey's back.
In sumptuous mansions
live today TV Preachers.
Driven they are,
in luxury-chauffeured Cadillacs.
Librophile
librophile 2 years ago 5
Comment removed
librophile 2 years ago
I once was at a church where the pastor says to the entire congregation "I know some of you don't agree with me but when we come to church I like to have Desert..." (meaning a fluff-feel good sermon) "...you get your meat and potatoes at your small group."
After that Sunday, I left. Small groups are great but someone at each should be taught the importance of exegetical examination of scripture rather than what usually happens at small groups.
wesleyjarrod 2 years ago 2
Sorry, for you type A's, I misspelled infallible.
rebrant 3 years ago
Does the Bible itself say that it is the ONLY source of infallable truth?
rebrant 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD." Proverbs 21:30
asuzette 2 years ago
Yes. When Jesus said that He alone was the way the truth and the life it is also implied that He and His word is one.
parakeethands 2 years ago
Really? Are you sure about that? Do you mean "are" one or "is" one? How can I accept the words of a moron who doesn't even know the english language.
rebrant 2 years ago
"An unfriendly man pursues selfish ends; he defies all sound judgement. A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinion." (Prov. 18:1 and 2)
blackiebori 3 years ago
Jossher700, Amen!!! This One World Religion wraps all of:
1.) Transformational Marxism/Dialectic Process
2.) Freemasonary
3.) The Kaballa
4.) The Emergent/ing church
It's a False Peace and Security.
1 Thess 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Keep reading The Gospels, disciples!!! GLORY!!! for you will never be deceived!
JesusIsReal777 3 years ago 3
Reading "Purpose Driven Life" I thought it was a good book. However, looking deeper, RW's theology focuses on works instead of faith and is fast moving to religious pluralism which what Biblical prophesy calls "One World Religion." I hope RW realizes this. Otherwise, he, Joel Osteen, TBN, have a lot to answer for. "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matt 24:24
Jossher700 3 years ago 6
Right.
If you haven't seen the videos I've posted called "Rick Warren Twisting Scripture", you should. It gives great insight as to where this man is standing biblically. He makes such statements as "One of our biggest mistakes is that we believe that prayer and preaching will grow a church. They will not."
Yeah... it's that bad.
LaneCh 3 years ago
zomg, he said that!? I was going to do a video series on this book because i just got it. i am on day 2 and it seems really nice so far. but to say you can get to heaven without repenting, which is what i have found on page 58 of the book, is really bad. I am going to read it all though. i am already a christian so i know that is wrong but the rest of the book might be ok.
galaxydreams 3 years ago
If you do not grow a church by prayer and preaching then what are you growing? Are you growing wheat or are you growing tares. Are you growing sheep or goats? On judgment day God will separate the wheat from the tares the sheep from the goats.
johnny102marvin 3 years ago
Whatever you start something with is what you will have to keep up in doing in order to keep them coming back. They can always find some new novel idea somewhere else. Better to give them the truth for conscience sake and for the glory of God.
parakeethands 2 years ago
@Jossher700 I read it, it is good and I agree with it up to the point of Deeds. Because I thought that is why Jesus choose to die for our sins. He had to know he was going to be the one, and hang, and tied, and nailed through and all of that. Deeds can be fun, but it isn't why we're supposed to follow God and Jesus.
Gonegoodforever 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Gonegoodforever Ah, so you are not one of those who believe Jesus is God?
AtheisticLiberator 1 year ago
"The Purpose Driven Life has no purpose"? Whaaaat? I used a copy to prop my kitchen window open (rain, snow, or shine) for a couple of years! It was great! Every Christian who came into my kitchen laughed at the true purpose for that book. :D
talitha00cumi 3 years ago 6
LaneCh, are you a member of Kielar's church? How is CrossTV doing financially? It went off DirectTV a few months ago. I get home in a week and was hoping it was back on. It is sad, I get 8 so-called christian TV channels and only 2-3 shows are worth watching. The rest is just garbage.
theocratickingdom30 4 years ago
Hey, I'm not a member of Kielar's church, but CrossTV is gracious enough to let me post clips of the DVD's on here. I'm not sure about their financial status. I know Kielar is pastoring a church right now. You can get many messages of his for free now including sermon videos. (firstboynton(.)com)
LaneCh 4 years ago
This fact alone, that the Gospel is foolishness to the perishing unbeliever, should cause us to question if Warren's "purposes" even contain anything related to the Gospel at all.
Anakrino 4 years ago 2
The fact that Warren's Purpose Driven Drivel has been so widely popular with both liberal churches and secular organizations should cause us to question the content of his books and ministry. After all, let us not forget the words of 1 Corinthians 1:18, "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
Anakrino 4 years ago 3
Joseph Smith should've watched this video before he started his occult.
cyberwaffles 4 years ago 2
2Corinthians 11:13-15,1Timothy 4:1,2Timothy 4:1-4 and 1John 4:1.Thanks Lane for uploading this.
ProclaimHisWord 4 years ago
I heartily commend you for addressing this issue. I've seen how churches that adopt Rick Warren's methods produce anemic Christians, milquetoast teachings, and horrifically sloppy Bible study leaders. The Christian church needs to wake up RIGHT NOW!
grammastola 4 years ago 3
It's true. The PDM has done so much harm by replacing God's holy standard with man's pragmatism. My former church went "Purpose" Driven a while back, and I had to leave.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with oldtruth dot com, but a man who was a former teacher at one of these churches set this website up to speak out against the pragmatism that's so prevalent these days. It's a great site.
LaneCh 4 years ago
Yes, I use the OldTruth website all the time. Sadly, many of my friends are caught up in the purpose-driven, seeker-oriented phenomenon. They see nothing wrong with it, and that breaks my heart.
grammastola 4 years ago
The bible study group we were going to was studying this book for awhile. Having read many self help books as an underachieving youth it appeared to me Warren was simply plagiarizing other self help books. Needless to say, I didn't get anything out of the book, except an idea that some folks in the group perhaps didn't have a since of purpose.
themoderateextremist 4 years ago
Many people are sharing your same concern. There is a man named Jim Bublitz that actually taught at one of these "Purpose Driven churches" for years then finally got fed up with it. He now runs the website Oldtruth dot com. I recommend it. He takes current events in the church (purpose driven, seeker sensitive) and examines them Biblically.
LaneCh 4 years ago