They think with time a non-living thing can start to live, a non aware being can start to aware,Information (like DNA) can be formed without intellegence,
social behaviour and techniques of animals and insects are in the genes ! and the best is this stuff : /watch?v=dOyc98tV5kA did evolve wings ! and the ability to fly !
throug random mutations and naturel selection, needless to speak about the evolution of plantes ...
@rs2questmaster And how do you know that? Did god tell you personally? No...you're assuming that god did not have influence over the bible. Now, how does he know? Well in the bible it states there was nothing before gods bringing of this universe into existence. Well science has proven and shown, the universe had a beginning. Whatever begins to exist has a cause. Basic science teaches cause and effect, if the universe had a beginning, it had a cause and existing was the effect.
Ray is totally out of his depth, he can't understand the scientific points so comes out with the same crap responses. "Nothing is as it seems"? Really? Nothing?
"Up" is every direction away from the planet.
We CAN make cheese.
Just because science can't show you how the universe was created doesn't mean that someone's imaginary friend did it.
I hate those stupid arguments of "you don't know for 100% so my guess must be right".
"All x comes from (other) x", is a common argument from creationists. It's like saying that all birds come from birds. That leads to an infinite regress of birds begetting birds, a notion that can never qualify as true, as the notion of the first bird coming from a bird is an inherent contradiction.
"All x comes from x". Feel free to replace 'x' with the usual suspects, "order", "complexity", "life", "consciousness", "love", "intelligence" etc. It's false in all cases.
for all those people who are trashing on Ray, you will remember the things he told you and every single of your words when you stand before God for judgement. You will certainly stand with no excuse that nobody warned you.
@sarah03ful said [[for all those people who are trashing on Ray, you will remember the things he told you and every single of your words when you stand before God for judgement. You will certainly stand with no excuse that nobody warned you.]]
I'm looking forward to it, but it seems that your 'god' is afraid of me.
Rom 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness"
God is not hiding, but He is waiting in heaven to bring His judgement on earth, He hasnt done it yet cause He wants to give all those nations that havent heard the gospel to get a chance to hear it and He is giving us time to repent, but one day He will come.
The U.S.A is a free country, if people want to use "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays" so what does that have to do with you? people have freedom right?
@sarah03ful said [[God is not hiding, but He is waiting in heaven to bring His judgement on earth, He hasnt done it yet cause He wants to give all those nations that havent heard the gospel to get a chance to hear it and He is giving us time to repent, but one day He will come.]]
He has a covenant, that's a verbal contract. He's had 2000 years to hold up his end of the bargain. Perhaps he should be sued by men with mutilated penises for non-production of contracted services.
@sarah03ful said [[The U.S.A is a free country, if people want to use "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays" so what does that have to do with you? people have freedom right?]]
It's so simple, even a child can understand it. To browbeat and intimidate people (Wal-Mart employees for one) for saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas is an act of intimidation motivated by Antisemitism.
@sarah03ful said [[for all those people who are trashing on Ray, you will remember the things he told you and every single of your words when you stand before God for judgement. You will certainly stand with no excuse that nobody warned you.]]
About Lucy, australopithecines most likely are simply extinct apes. Just because they have similarities to humans doesnt mean humans came from them. DNA similarities doesnt prove nothing neither. If humans need the same parts some other animals need to survive, like lungs, heart etc, it is obvious they will have similar DNA dont you think so? It is like when you build a car and an airplane with similar parts, that doesnt mean one came from the other.
God could have created them similar, i have no proves for this but neither you have proves that things didnt happen this way, we all interpret things according to our worldview.
Regarding the fossils, I am not an expert on it, but if they are thousands of years old, most likely they are very destroyed, so scientists have to rely on assumptions when they make statements on how they look like. You should not buy everything they tell you, how about if they are making a mistake?
DNA doesnt prove evolution. If God created some animals w/ similar parts ex: lungs heart which r needed for survival it is obvious they ll have similar DNA's dont u think so?
It is like when u use the same parts to build a car or an airplane. I have no proves to say similar DNAs are result of God creating those animals similarly but neither you have proves to say this is the result of evolution, we were not there to see how things happened so we all make assumptions
@sarah03ful said [[remember scientists are humans who can also make mistakes, you should not take everything they tell you for granted]]
Not only does science have nothing to do with faith, it also has nothing to do with belief. Science is about epistemology, ontology, logic and empirical evidence supporting theories and natural laws.
There's an apparent hole in Comfort's applied logic. He asserts that he "knows" of the existence of an omniscient creator, but then he makes frequent reference to the "belief" of God. There is an immeasurable contrast between "knowing" - that is irrefutable fact - and "belief" - read as assumption.
@fitzy098, yes, most Christians seem to be too dim to understand the difference between knowing and personal conviction, and worse, most don't seem to acknowledge the difference between belief and knowing.
What has always frustrated me - and that's to put it mildly - about dogmatic theists and religious apologists is their haphazard attempt to reconcile our physical origins (Darwinism, Intelligent Design, etc) and our reason for existence into one category. There is a distinct schism between the cosmological claims of God and the origin of species. If science cannot account to provide a definitive answer to a certain proposition, then it shouldn't follow that theology can, either.
Arguing with a theist: I call it the Bill Clinton "Define..... Is. Do you mean in the sense of is as the in of at or is is in the sense to"? Using Ray Comforts same argument- God does not exist!! I know you don't know. There, no God!
Discussions/debates (call it what you will) with creationists is ABSOLUTELY STUPID and worthless. It's something to do if you have got time to waste. It's NO BETTER than going and having a debate with a retard in a mental asylum. This is not going forward. It is going backward. These people are really dumb and they aren't helping the world or humanity in anyway. We need to stop this and get these creationists some psychotherapy. We can debate among ourselves about different things in science.
Ray starts off the conversation with I know and you don't.- It's impossible to have a rational discussion with this kind of 'certainty' in christians!
@tarun1982 said [[exactly my point. So why keep doing this? It looks silly to me. We should just laugh at them. That is what our children will be doing.]]
Because it has to be seen to be believed. Otherwise people may be willing to give the creationists insisters the benefit of the doubt. Watching a fiasco removes all doubt in those who are capable of rational thought.
@tarun1982 I'm in full agreement.. Ray Comfort is such a nice guy too! He's just drowned in a delusion like so many others -sad. John Lennon predicted Christianity will die a slow death in back in 1966..and he's dead right on brother!! -Cheers
@Lennon4ever1 Atheism SURE as shit isn't going to take it's place. I can tell you that. If anything, agnosticism or a simple belief in a creator will take it's place. I'm not religious. But, I do believe in God.
@Kostly I never said that atheism would take the place of Christianity. But. I see religions on the run! Maybe a better way to say it is, they have failed to make the world a better place and have run their course. You could be right about SOME form of religion like Deism replacing the dogmatic religions we have now. I'm not trying to predict the future, but the free-thinking, (atheist/agnostic) population is on the rise, especially among the new generation!
@Kostly We wrote the world's religions anyway (the human race) did, and we are free to tell a different story, write new religions or new philosophies if you're feel that's a safer label. Our course can change in a positive direction once we decide we are going to, or we can continue on a path to destroy ourselves.
@Lennon4ever1 I agree that man's religions will fade in favor of a more basic spirituality. WE're waking up to the big control game of social controls that have been put in place over the past 2000+ years. We're shedding our ignorance and it's not pretty, it won't be easy, but, we will fight for true freedom.
@Kostly I'm in agreement. We're shedding our ignorance and slowly the dogmatic barbarism of religion as well. The 'dark' side will not retreat without a fight though, it will go into history kicking and screaming! Terrorism is like a 'religious tantrum!'
What is freedom to you? drugs, crime, wars, rape, murder?
Let me tell u this, before I became a Christian, I was living in slavery. My sins were dominating my life, I wanted to get rid of them but I couldnt, I didnt have the power on my own to do so, only until I came to Christ, I was liberated of those things that were brining opression to my life. So no, believe in Christ is not slavery, but all teh opposite, it is what gives freedom to your life
@sarah03ful said [[Let me tell u this, before I became a Christian, I was living in slavery.]]
Adam and Eve were field slaves (Gen2:15), placed there to work a garden that wasn't theirs, and if they refused to obey or if they sought enlightenment, enough to know that slavery backed with the threat of death is wrong, they were told they would be put to death.
many tiimes you will have to leave your family and choose Christ over them. This is what Jesus was talking about.
I think you are interpreting Genesis 2:15 in the wrong way. God put Adam to work in the garden He created for Him for His own enjoyment. I personally dream with becoming a doctor, if God gave me the chance to become one, I would not see this work as slavery but all the opposite, I would see it as happiness cause I am doing something I love to do.
@sarah03ful said [[many tiimes you will have to leave your family and choose Christ over them. This is what Jesus was talking about.]]
How does that differ from what I said? He came not to bring peace but to rip apart families. He said it himself. So much for "Christian family values".
And as to the rest of your post, I don't care if you're a happy slave, you're a slave nonetheless if you believe you must serve your lord and master or burn in hell.
we dont go by what a religion teaches but what the bible teaches, the vatican accepts evolution but if you read the genesis, it says very clearly that God created all animals fully functional in a 24 hour 6 day period. Evolution doenst fit here.
about the verses in luke, Jesus came to rip apart families in the sense that many times our loved ones will become our enemies as a result of our faith in Jesus Christ. Ex: if a muslim turns Christian, his family will hate him
@sarah03ful said [[about the verses in luke, Jesus came to rip apart families in the sense that many times our loved ones will become our enemies as a result of our faith in Jesus Christ. Ex: if a muslim turns Christian, his family will hate him]]
Jesus encouraged his disciples to abandon their families, even in time of need. (Let the dead bury the dead). And if they even wanted to say goodbye, they were said to be unworthy of heaven. Sorry, but it's no different than your muslim example.
@sarah03ful said [[So no, believe in Christ is not slavery, but all teh opposite, it is what gives freedom to your life]]
Of course Christianity is slavery. You must surrender and submit your will to your "Lord & Master's" or you will be sent to the torture fields. You choose, unending torture or slavery to his will. That's the very definition of slavery. I really don't care if you LIKE being a slave, that would change nothing.
@Kostly It's not like I hope to see atheism dominate the population, I think deists, agnostics, and atheists could get on quite well if we see the darker fundamentalist beliefs die out. But nobody has a 'crystal ball' man!
@Lennon4ever1 I'm in agreement with what you say. It's just my opinion, but, I'm of the belief that consciousness pervades the universe. My view on God is very esoteric when compared with the big 3 religions. I don't believe there is a "man in the sky". To be honest, I don't know what God is. That doesn't mean a higher power doesn't exist. Atheism is untenable and not an honest position. Because the truth is, we don't know and we can't know for sure.
@sarah03ful said [[if you opened your heart to God and invited Him to your life, then you would know who He is.]]
Luke 14:26, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luke 12:51, Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other!
Luke 12:49, I have come to set the world on fire, and I wish it were already burning!
Its true Christianity has declined but it hanst died. Christianity is the most attacked religion in the world, if it was something false, it would've been destroyed long time ago, but it hasnt cause you cant destroy something that is real. Mohammed isnt attacked as much as Jesus is, neither people attack the Qoran as much as they do to the bible. Islam and other religions have not been through the trials Chrstianity has been through. If they had, may b they would not exist now
@sarah03ful said [[Christianity is the most attacked religion in the world, if it was something false, it would've been destroyed long time ago, but it hasnt cause you cant destroy something that is real.]]
On the contrary, Christianity is still 'here' because it was spread throughout the world at sword point and alternative beliefs, even early Christian beliefs, were wiped out along with scores of murdered believers. Perhaps you've heard of the Roman Empire.
Let me tell you a little about the history of Christianity. During the first 300 years Christians were highly persecuted, there are documents that proved on how the Roman emperors were persecuting them, and torturing them and killing them. Then when Constantine started Roman Catholicism(a false religions) around 300 AD, the Catholic Church started persecuting people who didnt convert but the true Christians didnt have anything to do with them, but they fled away.
@sarah03ful, the Orthodox church was the original, and the Catholics included other heretical beliefs. Hence the meanings of the words "orthodox" and "catholic".
Many of the people the Catholic Church killed were actually protestant Christians, have you ever heard of the reformation in the 1500s? Jesus taught us to love and pray for our enemies Matt 5:44 and the apostles taught us to preach the gospel with gentleness and respect, 2 timothy2:24-26, 1 Peter 3:15, Titus 3:2. If the Catholic Church or any other person who claimed to be a "chrsitan" was disobeying the bible then that is a different story.
@sarah03ful said [[Many of the people the Catholic Church killed were actually protestant Christians...]]
I'm talking about a thousand years before that. The reason for the propagation and success of Christianity over other religions or sects isn't because it's "true", it's because the Roman Empire spread this religion at sword point.
yes the catholics spread catholicism throught the sword but to remind you, protestant christianity and catholicism are two different religions, they seem the same to people like you who dont know that much about what the bible teaches but we all (christians) know perfectly they are not the same thing. Did you read the verses I quoted to you where Jesus and the apostles taught us to love our enemies and to preach the gospel with peace? If people disobey that is a different story
@sarah03ful did you read the verses I offered you where Jeus says that unless you hate your family and virtually everyone you know, you can't be his disciple? Did you read the verse where he did not come to bring peace but rather a sword and to rip families apart? And he came to set the world on fire and how he wished it were already burning?
"Resist not evil" (like Hitler or Pol Pot), and if anyone strikes you on the cheek, invite them to pound the other one too. That does not inspire peace.
@sarah03ful said [[yes the catholics spread catholicism throught the sword but to remind you, protestant christianity and catholicism are two different religions, they seem the same to people like you who dont know that much about what the bible...]]
I know quite a bit about the bible. You only know your dogma and doctrine. It's funny, Christians like to count themselves as a whole when there is a head-count, and then call themselves "different religions" when it comes down to brass tacks.
@sarah03ful i also read in the bible that adulterer women should be stoned to death, do you fulfill this task that god all just has given to you? i really think you should read some serious books on evolution, you don't seem to get it, less complex doesn't less adapted, a prokaryote is far less complex than a human being but completely adapted to its environment.
@cuagmirag Stoning of the adulterous woman or man was for the ancient Israelites but Jesus nullified this law nowhere in the New Testament it is written to stone people so stop spreading this lie that christians stones sinners ,oh well another atheist rhetoric
@SonofJaphet According to the Bible Jesus nullified only the sacrificial laws. It also says in the Old Testament that although the Levitical Laws are for the Jews, every gentile has knowledge of the law in his heart. Jesus says, "I came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it." So your argument doesn't work. The Levitical laws were atrocious. You can't excuse them because the imaginary being "changed his mind". Oh well. Another theist apologist.
in Muslim Countries people get killed for converting to another religion. If you leave islam, ur family will stop talking to u. U dont get to see those things in Christianity.
Regarding Luke 14:26 & 12:51 What Jesus meant to say is that many times as a result of us becoming Chritians we will become the enemies of our parents siblings who will not accept & will even persecute us for becoming Christians. Believing in Christ many times brings division, fights within the family.
@sarah03ful said [[in Muslim Countries people get killed for converting to another religion. If you leave islam, ur family will stop talking to u. U dont get to see those things in Christianity. ]]
You just contradicted yourself. You yourself just admitted that Jesus said he came not to bring peace, but to rip families apart.
[[Regarding Luke 14:26 & 12:51 What Jesus meant to say is that...]]
How arrogant to suggest that Jesus didn't mean what he said, but rather he meant what YOU say.
@sarah03ful said [[Mohammed isnt attacked as much as Jesus is, neither people attack the Qoran as much as they do to the bible. ]]
Because you can no longer murder disbelievers at whim, and because the occidental world isn't as fooled by Islam's wolf in sheep's clothing routine as they are with the bible.
Both Christians and Muslims lie to themselves about the content of their religious tomes but in both cases it's for the nicer. YHWH and Allah are not moderate.
Concousness and God are the same thing. God created the universe by thinking the universe into existence and as a result, the universe responds to thought. Read the book the Secret!
@Stevo6452 said [[Concousness and God are the same thing. God created the universe by thinking the universe into existence and as a result, the universe responds to thought. Read the book the Secret!]]
"All consciousness comes from (other) consciousness".
That statement leads to an infinite regress that can never qualify as truth, ergo the alternative must be true, that at least some (if not all) consciousness comes from the non-conscious.
You're faulty because you're mixing multiple theological/philosophical positions into one "cute package." Saying "Concousness and God are the same thing" may sound nice, and pleasant... And it may even sound "deep." But it's groundless, and has many theological implications relating to the nature of God, pantheism and the like.
The secret is a book that gives dangerous confidence to stupid people. Positive thinking is good - But it isn't the force behind success.
Ray comfort I saw you explanation of the banana. I would like to ask you what the purpose of your big mustache or the hair under arms or around your ass. Or why did god gave you nipples. Ignorant
@Somethingsifereable Just because your Jewish doesn't mean you can't accept Christ and repent for your sins. He is a Christian man of God. God's people will forever be hated, after all the devil is working with you and your being manipulated just the way he wants. It's not too late to accept the truth.
@DSpree42 You do not have any "truth". I'm sick and fucking tired of people saying that their God is "truth". If you were born in the middle east you would say that Allah is the truth, if you were born in India you would pray to Krishna. Stop thinking that you stumbled upon the ultimate meaning of life because when you pray to Jesus you feel fuzzy inside. You have no more truth than any other person, religion or belief system.
For those of you folks who don't know it, Ray Comfort isn't even a real creationist.He isn't even a christian either. He's a jew. He not only makes a mockery out of science, he laughs at the very gullible christians who believe in this shit and makes money off them. I'm going to put him in 3rd place on my phoney jew fraudster list right behind Dick Morris and Joe Cohen a.k.a Yousef al Khattab. It's a good thing this character debating Thunderfoot and not me. Thunderfoot is a gentleman. I'm not.
I think that just because we haven't discovered something yet, or know how something works yet or why doesn't mean that you just fill in the gaps with religion. It's ridicules.
no, I dont think we are trying to fill gaps in science with religion, but all the opposite, the more we discover about science the more we know about the obvious design of life. If you had come to me hundreds of years ago(when we didnt know that much about cells) telling me that a cell came into existence without a creator, I would've believed you, but now, we know how complex a cell is, and saying that a creator didnt have any influence is harder to believe
@sarah03ful said [[no, I dont think we are trying to fill gaps in science with religion, but all the opposite, the more we discover about science the more we know about the obvious design of life.]]
I strongly suspect that biologists know more about biology than you do. Evolution theory of species is the backbone of modern biology.
it has to be one of the most crap arguments christians use. Because they can assert some bullshit they have absolutely no proof for, they believe this makes their argument stronger than that of people who prefer to be cautious and reserve their answer until more evidence is forthcoming.
Im only 16, i am humble enough to admit there are Atheists and Religious Believers who possess much greater knowledge on both sides of the debate than me, However i think the answer to everything is right in our faces, Religion is just un-identified/un-explained Science, that "thing" as i call it, religious believers call "God" (not neccesarily a being possibly a scientific force) and what scientists are yet too identify is the creator of earth, we all just have different perceptions of it.
Ray Comfort (banana man) is simply not qualified to be having this conversation. The nature of this conversation is exactly why Dawkins doesn't dignify this goob with the opportunity to show his cluelessness. It's like being on Hardtalk if Hardtalk were hosted by an 8 year old child.
Richard Dawkins is nothing more than an angry, frustrated, and arrogant man. Actually it should be Ray the one refusing to talk to him cause Jesus told us not to be feeding dogs what is sacred and not to be casting our pearls to swines
Tested by M.D.'s, and primate specialist no medical experts examined it in this creationism movement. You claims where not put thru the peer review process do not lie.There is no debate trust me I have see both cast of lucy and cast of chimps this is not a chimp the knee and hip joints SHOW this. The peer review process is used to correct mistakes quit lieing. There is no debate among us in the field is legitimate Ray and Kirk lied and you are defending that lie
the thing is that most scientists who test those fossils are atheists. I do believe that atheist scientists are influenced by their believes. We all are. We dont deny the findings but the problem is how we interpret them. If those fossils look like humans, that doesnt mean humans came from them, this is an assumption those atheist scientists make based on their own worldview that there is no God who created us but that we are the product of apes
"the predominant evolutionary biologist(macrobiologst included) are believers in god, and guys like Dawkins are just a vocal minority"
-William Lane Craig
Quit lieing
You are arguing about fossils examined by people with medical degrees and retested by others with medical degrees to TEST if they came to the same conclusion.
Those copy's of cast I looked at had radical differences from chimps
as I said, if those medical doctors proved that those fossils look like humans still that doesnt mean anything. Just because humans look like them doesnt mean they came from them. it is an assumption they are making.
i will repeat this, it is not denying the evidence for the findings but on how we interpret them. It is like with DNA, no one denies our DNA is 98% similar to apes but it is all a fact on how we interpret it. If God created certain animals with similar parts for survival like lungs etc it is obvious they will have similar DNAs. You say it is the product of evolution but neither you nor me were there to see whether it was God or evolution.
@sarah03ful said [[Lucy most likely was an extinct ape]]
In modern biology, YOU are an ape. So am I. We're of the Family Hominidae, and of the Superfamily called Hominoids and the order called Primates. Members of the Family called Hominadae are referred to as "Great Apes". According to modern biology, you and I are of the Great Ape family. (Not to be confused with Grape Ape, lol).
the sun orbiting around the earth did not come from the bible but from Ptolemy and Aristotle.
Actually it has been the watchmaker the one that has been debunked.
So far there have not been any evidence or logical explanations for the complexity of life. Neither there have been any evidence for abiogenesis. Abiogenesis is something refutable as it has been confirmed by science that only life gives life to life.
@sarah03ful said [[Abiogenesis is something refutable as it has been confirmed by science that only life gives life to life.]]
"All life comes from (other) life".
That statement leads to an infinite regress which can never quality as true, therefore the alternative MUST be true. The alternative is that some life MUST have come from non-life or the non-living. No 'gods' required.
yes but what you are saying is refutable, this confirmed by science. Read about Pasteur who was the one who demonstrated biogenesis "all life is from life" what you are saying is totally refutable
This premise was given to us by common seance did not bring up the bible or your interpretation of what this god is just evolution now you are using another detraction technique by dragging things off topic while you still continue to re use arguments I just debunked with facts based on tested data packed by the peer review process.
no I was trying to use the DNA as an example on how it is not a matter of denying the findings but a matter of how we interpret things, it is not that I was trying to go off topic.
You havent debunked anything, as i said it is all about your worldview.
Human chromosome 2, Matching endogenous retro-viral sequences between the grate apes and humans, recessive genes, tail muscle in humans, Progressive patterns in comparative genes, Junk DNA, Single strain DNA.+multiple dating methods that agree with each other with an extremely low % margin of error proving the earth is old enough for the time needed for macro change and Ring species, nylon eating bacteria(example of new information created from a mutation).
actually Junk DNA has been proven not to be junk DNA. Scientists believe that only 5% of our DNA is used but it has been proven that actually the rest of the DNA does have a use.
It is like when scientistis use vestigial organs, ex: the coccyx, they use it as prove that humans used to have a tail but later lost it and has no use anymore but the coccyx has actually been proven to have a purpose, without it, we would not be able to sit.
evolution within species has been proven right, different species of cats dogs etc but they are still cats and dogs, that a dog turned into a cat etc is another story, there is no evidence for that.
Scientists say that through mutations one animal has turned into another over millions of years but mutations mostly are not beneficial, it involves the loss of information.
@sarah03ful There is no such thing as "macro" and "micro" evolution, as there is no invisible partition preventing branched species from changing to the extent that it can no longer produce viable offspring with other branches.
life is way too complex to have been created without the existence of a creator. Just look at the complexity of a cell. Everything in our bodies and nature indicates design.
@sarah03ful said [[life is way too complex to have been created without the existence of a creator. ]]
"All complexity comes from (other) complexity".
That statement leads to an infinite regress and can never qualify as true. Therefore the alternative MUST be true, that at least some complexity comes from the lesser complex.
No 'gods' required.
For examples, google "Emergent Complexity" or simply "Emergence" or "Emergent Behavior".
supposed what you say is true, "complexity came from less complex"
tell me, how did species survive when they didnt have all the parts that today are needed for survival? tell me, what evolved first the heart or the blood?
If species evolved how were they reproducing while they were evolving ovaries, testicles etc? If one of them lacked any of these, that would mean the extinction of the species.
@sarah03ful said [[tell me, how did species survive when they didnt have all the parts that today are needed for survival? tell me, what evolved first the heart or the blood?]]
Evolution of species is evolution of species. It has nothing to do with organelles magically popping into existence. You seem to be confusing evolution with the theistic "Poof" theory.
i fucking hate it when he says "you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do!....um, wheres your fucking proof moron?
I find it fairly odd but quite interesting how Thunder foot supports and strongly advocates science and scientific discovery, But when it comes to the beginning of the universe and whether or not it eternal he acts clueless. When its quite obvious science suggests strongly , Very Strongly ! that it began to exist a finite time ago. Even the great but some what atheistic Stephen Hawking said "“Almost everyone believes that the universe, and time itself, had a beginning at the big bang."
Thunderf00t sounds more like an agnostic than an atheist to me. And you can respect the role science plays in our lives, but as it pertains to the universe, it is impossible to know whether or not it's eternal. Evolution and creationism are simply two sides of the same (unprovable) coin. At the end of the day, they're both just theories.
@shelton705 in my opinion The "new Atheists " are just agnostics claiming to be atheists. They have even redefined the word atheist as " a lack of belief in God " but this defintion makes them no different from an agnostic , Verificationist or my beloved pet Dog Cosmo all three of which lack a belief in god . Its most certainly an ad hoc definition. logic and Big Bang cosmology certainly suggests strongly that the universe isnt eternal.
@yhwhizlife1 said [[in my opinion The "new Atheists " are just agnostics claiming to be atheists. They have even redefined the word atheist as " a lack of belief in God " but this defintion makes them no different from an agnostic , ]]
If you're going to discuss using words, it's important to know the meaning of them. Theism/atheism deal with belief or lack of belief respectively, and gnosis/agnosticism deal with knowing or not knowing respectively. Knowledge is not belief. Basic epistemology
@yhwhizlife1 said [[ They have even redefined the word atheist as " a lack of belief in God " but this defintion makes them no different from an agnostic , ]]
The prefix "a" means not, non- or without. It does not means anti-.
Atypical means not typical. Asymmetric means not symmetric. Atheist means not a theist.
@shelton705 You can ignore or reject scientific discovery because it challenges your world view, but dont then turn around and attempt to use scientific discovery to support your own world view when its convenient , Its nonsensical
I just looove when a christian asks me what happened in the beginning and when i say i dont know they say wow then there must be a god ?how stupid could you be to believe in something you dont even know how it was made! and i say well who the fuck made god?
I really don't understand this argument: we cannot explain the origin of the universe, therefor my particular religion is correct. How does this make any sense? If we don't use empirical data to form our understanding of reality, then how do I pick what to believe in? If I don't use evidence, then the earth could be 6000 years old, 10000, or 22 trillion for all I know.
@bobcatallstar7 If you said there was a Unicorn behind me, and I turn around and there is no unicorn, do I have to prove there was no unicorn? Or do you have to prove there was a unicorn? And is it wrong to believe there was no unicorn, until such time as you have presented the evidence to point to there being a unicorn there? The same is true for God. You ask us to not use Science, Science is the best thing we have for determining what is false, and what is true. Do you have something better?
@RobWRobins The fact is that the unicorn (God) has been proven, its just that when you turn around you ignorant atheists just dont want to accept the truth.
@jpgrygus It should be real easy if it's a fact that's been proven. You'd think Christians would really want all this proof. Did you know there are people offering millions of dollars for proof of God? Go collect your money man.
@happymom2day Really? You think HIS ears are closed? Ray is the most close minded, ignorant fool out there. Ray claims certainty, in everything. With no evidence. How can you be CERTAIN about something, if that something has nothing to point to it's certainty? He claims to KNOW how the universe started. Do you not see how rediculous this is? Do you not understand how impossible it is to claim absolute certainty about creation? You're as ignorant as Ray and the rest of his bible buddies.
Poor guy. Stuttering, stumbling, and interrupting Ray without giving him much eye contact. He says what he believes is unknown. It's unknown to him because his ears are closed to what Ray is saying.
@bobcatallstar7 I cannot imagine a more irrelevant and stupid question. If you are attempting to prove you have no grasp of the larger issue, you have succeeded.
It seems atheist rely on science so much in trying to disprove God. And I know that some christians try to prove God without the bibles help and they don't do a very good job at trying to do so. Which makes me mad because I know there is evidence of God. But everytime i hear a atheist try to disprove god they always rely on science. Which brings me to this question. Atheist can you try and disprove God without science help?
@bobcatallstar7 Atheists don't need to disprove god. Science makes no statement concerning the existence of a god. Science deals with the natural world, and believers like to claim that god exists outside of space, time, nature, etc. Thus, science can make no judgment on this topic.
Science ALSO doesn't make judgments on the existence of fairies, leprechauns, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus... you see where I'm going with this.
you cant talk to ray because hes not listening, because he thinks he knows something very special that you just dont understand. and therefore you are below him, and in his mind you have nothing to teach him and he has nothing to learn from you. he thinks god speaks directly through him and therefore he is god and you are just his child and he has nothing to learn from you. so he'll never listen to you until he wakes up. he is delusional! so unfortunetly its just a waste of time to talk to him!
@yourallbrainwashed ??? are you for real, Ray is doing most of the listening. Watch carefully and you will see Thunderfoot is doing all the talking and cutting off Ray Comfort continually.
I have a five part video series that exposes
Christianity and the Bible as wrong and immoral
anyone with honesty and truth will agree.
Do you care what s right?
MagicHoodooMan 1 day ago
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They think with time a non-living thing can start to live, a non aware being can start to aware,Information (like DNA) can be formed without intellegence,
social behaviour and techniques of animals and insects are in the genes ! and the best is this stuff : /watch?v=dOyc98tV5kA did evolve wings ! and the ability to fly !
throug random mutations and naturel selection, needless to speak about the evolution of plantes ...
YamiYami17 2 days ago
i would love to sit down and have a chat with thunderfoot. hes so smart! he may even be on the same level of intellect as the late Chris Hitchens
JonnoXD 2 days ago
"i know what was in the beginning"
how does he know? did god tell him personally? no....he read it in a book...which was not written by God himself.
rs2questmaster 3 days ago 3
@rs2questmaster And how do you know that? Did god tell you personally? No...you're assuming that god did not have influence over the bible. Now, how does he know? Well in the bible it states there was nothing before gods bringing of this universe into existence. Well science has proven and shown, the universe had a beginning. Whatever begins to exist has a cause. Basic science teaches cause and effect, if the universe had a beginning, it had a cause and existing was the effect.
narutardtedr 2 days ago
For a creationist he is actually polite...
Laurentiu909 6 days ago
Ray is totally out of his depth, he can't understand the scientific points so comes out with the same crap responses. "Nothing is as it seems"? Really? Nothing?
"Up" is every direction away from the planet.
We CAN make cheese.
Just because science can't show you how the universe was created doesn't mean that someone's imaginary friend did it.
I hate those stupid arguments of "you don't know for 100% so my guess must be right".
MrSelidor7 1 week ago
Thunderfoot being very careful what he says here so that Ray cannot turn it around.
GreedyCapybara7 1 week ago
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@sarah
"All x comes from (other) x", is a common argument from creationists. It's like saying that all birds come from birds. That leads to an infinite regress of birds begetting birds, a notion that can never qualify as true, as the notion of the first bird coming from a bird is an inherent contradiction.
"All x comes from x". Feel free to replace 'x' with the usual suspects, "order", "complexity", "life", "consciousness", "love", "intelligence" etc. It's false in all cases.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
for all those people who are trashing on Ray, you will remember the things he told you and every single of your words when you stand before God for judgement. You will certainly stand with no excuse that nobody warned you.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[for all those people who are trashing on Ray, you will remember the things he told you and every single of your words when you stand before God for judgement. You will certainly stand with no excuse that nobody warned you.]]
I'm looking forward to it, but it seems that your 'god' is afraid of me.
Rom 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness"
So, where is your 'god', hiding?
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@LucisFerre1
God is not hiding, but He is waiting in heaven to bring His judgement on earth, He hasnt done it yet cause He wants to give all those nations that havent heard the gospel to get a chance to hear it and He is giving us time to repent, but one day He will come.
The U.S.A is a free country, if people want to use "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays" so what does that have to do with you? people have freedom right?
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[God is not hiding, but He is waiting in heaven to bring His judgement on earth, He hasnt done it yet cause He wants to give all those nations that havent heard the gospel to get a chance to hear it and He is giving us time to repent, but one day He will come.]]
He has a covenant, that's a verbal contract. He's had 2000 years to hold up his end of the bargain. Perhaps he should be sued by men with mutilated penises for non-production of contracted services.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[The U.S.A is a free country, if people want to use "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays" so what does that have to do with you? people have freedom right?]]
It's so simple, even a child can understand it. To browbeat and intimidate people (Wal-Mart employees for one) for saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas is an act of intimidation motivated by Antisemitism.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[for all those people who are trashing on Ray, you will remember the things he told you and every single of your words when you stand before God for judgement. You will certainly stand with no excuse that nobody warned you.]]
I don't negotiate with terrorists.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
"Lucy was a 3 foot chimp"
"there are no transitional fossils"
quote mine quote mine quote mine
Ray what do you call some one who tells a lie?
TheMrgoku1985 2 weeks ago
@TheMrgoku1985
About Lucy, australopithecines most likely are simply extinct apes. Just because they have similarities to humans doesnt mean humans came from them. DNA similarities doesnt prove nothing neither. If humans need the same parts some other animals need to survive, like lungs, heart etc, it is obvious they will have similar DNA dont you think so? It is like when you build a car and an airplane with similar parts, that doesnt mean one came from the other.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[About Lucy...]]
You're completely scientifically illiterate. You shouldn't pretend otherwise, even to protect your 'god'.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@TheMrgoku1985
God could have created them similar, i have no proves for this but neither you have proves that things didnt happen this way, we all interpret things according to our worldview.
Regarding the fossils, I am not an expert on it, but if they are thousands of years old, most likely they are very destroyed, so scientists have to rely on assumptions when they make statements on how they look like. You should not buy everything they tell you, how about if they are making a mistake?
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful, the new game in town is genetics, not typification or classification of fossil evidence.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@LucisFerre1
DNA doesnt prove evolution. If God created some animals w/ similar parts ex: lungs heart which r needed for survival it is obvious they ll have similar DNA's dont u think so?
It is like when u use the same parts to build a car or an airplane. I have no proves to say similar DNAs are result of God creating those animals similarly but neither you have proves to say this is the result of evolution, we were not there to see how things happened so we all make assumptions
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[DNA doesnt prove evolution.]]
Well, yes, genetics, i.e. genome research DOES in fact support evolution theory of species.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@TheMrgoku1985
remember scientists are humans who can also make mistakes, you should not take everything they tell you for granted
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[remember scientists are humans who can also make mistakes, you should not take everything they tell you for granted]]
Not only does science have nothing to do with faith, it also has nothing to do with belief. Science is about epistemology, ontology, logic and empirical evidence supporting theories and natural laws.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
There's an apparent hole in Comfort's applied logic. He asserts that he "knows" of the existence of an omniscient creator, but then he makes frequent reference to the "belief" of God. There is an immeasurable contrast between "knowing" - that is irrefutable fact - and "belief" - read as assumption.
fitzy098 2 weeks ago
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@fitzy098, yes, most Christians seem to be too dim to understand the difference between knowing and personal conviction, and worse, most don't seem to acknowledge the difference between belief and knowing.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
What has always frustrated me - and that's to put it mildly - about dogmatic theists and religious apologists is their haphazard attempt to reconcile our physical origins (Darwinism, Intelligent Design, etc) and our reason for existence into one category. There is a distinct schism between the cosmological claims of God and the origin of species. If science cannot account to provide a definitive answer to a certain proposition, then it shouldn't follow that theology can, either.
fitzy098 2 weeks ago
WHY THE FUCK IS THE FAGGOT ASKING QUESTIONS ?!?! IT SHOULD BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND WTF!
mas6o0ol100 2 weeks ago
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Whenever a creationist says "Let me finish my point", it usually means let me spew our 10 to 15 assumptions in a row.
SumpNuther 2 weeks ago
Hey ur from that vid by darkmatter2525
gamer7916 3 weeks ago
8:10
UniBrowser 3 weeks ago
Arguing with a theist: I call it the Bill Clinton "Define..... Is. Do you mean in the sense of is as the in of at or is is in the sense to"? Using Ray Comforts same argument- God does not exist!! I know you don't know. There, no God!
paramattic70 3 weeks ago
Discussions/debates (call it what you will) with creationists is ABSOLUTELY STUPID and worthless. It's something to do if you have got time to waste. It's NO BETTER than going and having a debate with a retard in a mental asylum. This is not going forward. It is going backward. These people are really dumb and they aren't helping the world or humanity in anyway. We need to stop this and get these creationists some psychotherapy. We can debate among ourselves about different things in science.
tarun1982 3 weeks ago
Ray starts off the conversation with I know and you don't.- It's impossible to have a rational discussion with this kind of 'certainty' in christians!
Lennon4ever1 3 weeks ago
@Lennon4ever1 exactly my point. So why keep doing this? It looks silly to me. We should just laugh at them. That is what our children will be doing.
tarun1982 3 weeks ago
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@tarun1982 said [[exactly my point. So why keep doing this? It looks silly to me. We should just laugh at them. That is what our children will be doing.]]
Because it has to be seen to be believed. Otherwise people may be willing to give the creationists insisters the benefit of the doubt. Watching a fiasco removes all doubt in those who are capable of rational thought.
LucisFerre1 3 weeks ago
@tarun1982 I'm in full agreement.. Ray Comfort is such a nice guy too! He's just drowned in a delusion like so many others -sad. John Lennon predicted Christianity will die a slow death in back in 1966..and he's dead right on brother!! -Cheers
Lennon4ever1 3 weeks ago
@Lennon4ever1 Atheism SURE as shit isn't going to take it's place. I can tell you that. If anything, agnosticism or a simple belief in a creator will take it's place. I'm not religious. But, I do believe in God.
Kostly 3 weeks ago
@Kostly I never said that atheism would take the place of Christianity. But. I see religions on the run! Maybe a better way to say it is, they have failed to make the world a better place and have run their course. You could be right about SOME form of religion like Deism replacing the dogmatic religions we have now. I'm not trying to predict the future, but the free-thinking, (atheist/agnostic) population is on the rise, especially among the new generation!
Lennon4ever1 3 weeks ago
@Kostly We wrote the world's religions anyway (the human race) did, and we are free to tell a different story, write new religions or new philosophies if you're feel that's a safer label. Our course can change in a positive direction once we decide we are going to, or we can continue on a path to destroy ourselves.
Lennon4ever1 3 weeks ago
@Lennon4ever1 I agree that man's religions will fade in favor of a more basic spirituality. WE're waking up to the big control game of social controls that have been put in place over the past 2000+ years. We're shedding our ignorance and it's not pretty, it won't be easy, but, we will fight for true freedom.
Kostly 3 weeks ago
@Kostly I'm in agreement. We're shedding our ignorance and slowly the dogmatic barbarism of religion as well. The 'dark' side will not retreat without a fight though, it will go into history kicking and screaming! Terrorism is like a 'religious tantrum!'
Lennon4ever1 2 weeks ago
@Kostly
"we will fight for true freedom?
What is freedom to you? drugs, crime, wars, rape, murder?
Let me tell u this, before I became a Christian, I was living in slavery. My sins were dominating my life, I wanted to get rid of them but I couldnt, I didnt have the power on my own to do so, only until I came to Christ, I was liberated of those things that were brining opression to my life. So no, believe in Christ is not slavery, but all teh opposite, it is what gives freedom to your life
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[Let me tell u this, before I became a Christian, I was living in slavery.]]
Adam and Eve were field slaves (Gen2:15), placed there to work a garden that wasn't theirs, and if they refused to obey or if they sought enlightenment, enough to know that slavery backed with the threat of death is wrong, they were told they would be put to death.
THIS IS SLAVERY TO YOUR "LORD & MASTER".
Are you REALLY unaware of what slavery is?
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@LucisFerre1
many tiimes you will have to leave your family and choose Christ over them. This is what Jesus was talking about.
I think you are interpreting Genesis 2:15 in the wrong way. God put Adam to work in the garden He created for Him for His own enjoyment. I personally dream with becoming a doctor, if God gave me the chance to become one, I would not see this work as slavery but all the opposite, I would see it as happiness cause I am doing something I love to do.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[many tiimes you will have to leave your family and choose Christ over them. This is what Jesus was talking about.]]
How does that differ from what I said? He came not to bring peace but to rip apart families. He said it himself. So much for "Christian family values".
And as to the rest of your post, I don't care if you're a happy slave, you're a slave nonetheless if you believe you must serve your lord and master or burn in hell.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@LucisFerre1
we dont go by what a religion teaches but what the bible teaches, the vatican accepts evolution but if you read the genesis, it says very clearly that God created all animals fully functional in a 24 hour 6 day period. Evolution doenst fit here.
about the verses in luke, Jesus came to rip apart families in the sense that many times our loved ones will become our enemies as a result of our faith in Jesus Christ. Ex: if a muslim turns Christian, his family will hate him
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[about the verses in luke, Jesus came to rip apart families in the sense that many times our loved ones will become our enemies as a result of our faith in Jesus Christ. Ex: if a muslim turns Christian, his family will hate him]]
Jesus encouraged his disciples to abandon their families, even in time of need. (Let the dead bury the dead). And if they even wanted to say goodbye, they were said to be unworthy of heaven. Sorry, but it's no different than your muslim example.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[So no, believe in Christ is not slavery, but all teh opposite, it is what gives freedom to your life]]
Of course Christianity is slavery. You must surrender and submit your will to your "Lord & Master's" or you will be sent to the torture fields. You choose, unending torture or slavery to his will. That's the very definition of slavery. I really don't care if you LIKE being a slave, that would change nothing.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@Kostly It's not like I hope to see atheism dominate the population, I think deists, agnostics, and atheists could get on quite well if we see the darker fundamentalist beliefs die out. But nobody has a 'crystal ball' man!
Lennon4ever1 3 weeks ago
@Lennon4ever1 I'm in agreement with what you say. It's just my opinion, but, I'm of the belief that consciousness pervades the universe. My view on God is very esoteric when compared with the big 3 religions. I don't believe there is a "man in the sky". To be honest, I don't know what God is. That doesn't mean a higher power doesn't exist. Atheism is untenable and not an honest position. Because the truth is, we don't know and we can't know for sure.
Kostly 3 weeks ago
@Kostly
if you opened your heart to God and invited Him to your life, then you would know who He is.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[if you opened your heart to God and invited Him to your life, then you would know who He is.]]
Luke 14:26, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luke 12:51, Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other!
Luke 12:49, I have come to set the world on fire, and I wish it were already burning!
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[if you opened your heart to God and invited Him to your life, then you would know who He is.]]
My mommy told me to never invite vampires into the house.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@Kostly I'll be nowhere near my computer for awhile, so think about my comments and we'll talk more in a week or so -Peace!
Lennon4ever1 3 weeks ago
@Lennon4ever1
Its true Christianity has declined but it hanst died. Christianity is the most attacked religion in the world, if it was something false, it would've been destroyed long time ago, but it hasnt cause you cant destroy something that is real. Mohammed isnt attacked as much as Jesus is, neither people attack the Qoran as much as they do to the bible. Islam and other religions have not been through the trials Chrstianity has been through. If they had, may b they would not exist now
sarah03ful 1 week ago
@sarah03ful Well, I guess the only thing we agree on is that Christianity is declining.
Lennon4ever1 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[Christianity is the most attacked religion in the world, if it was something false, it would've been destroyed long time ago, but it hasnt cause you cant destroy something that is real.]]
On the contrary, Christianity is still 'here' because it was spread throughout the world at sword point and alternative beliefs, even early Christian beliefs, were wiped out along with scores of murdered believers. Perhaps you've heard of the Roman Empire.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@LucisFerre1
Let me tell you a little about the history of Christianity. During the first 300 years Christians were highly persecuted, there are documents that proved on how the Roman emperors were persecuting them, and torturing them and killing them. Then when Constantine started Roman Catholicism(a false religions) around 300 AD, the Catholic Church started persecuting people who didnt convert but the true Christians didnt have anything to do with them, but they fled away.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful, the Orthodox church was the original, and the Catholics included other heretical beliefs. Hence the meanings of the words "orthodox" and "catholic".
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@LucisFerre1
Many of the people the Catholic Church killed were actually protestant Christians, have you ever heard of the reformation in the 1500s? Jesus taught us to love and pray for our enemies Matt 5:44 and the apostles taught us to preach the gospel with gentleness and respect, 2 timothy2:24-26, 1 Peter 3:15, Titus 3:2. If the Catholic Church or any other person who claimed to be a "chrsitan" was disobeying the bible then that is a different story.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[Many of the people the Catholic Church killed were actually protestant Christians...]]
I'm talking about a thousand years before that. The reason for the propagation and success of Christianity over other religions or sects isn't because it's "true", it's because the Roman Empire spread this religion at sword point.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@LucisFerre1
yes the catholics spread catholicism throught the sword but to remind you, protestant christianity and catholicism are two different religions, they seem the same to people like you who dont know that much about what the bible teaches but we all (christians) know perfectly they are not the same thing. Did you read the verses I quoted to you where Jesus and the apostles taught us to love our enemies and to preach the gospel with peace? If people disobey that is a different story
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful did you read the verses I offered you where Jeus says that unless you hate your family and virtually everyone you know, you can't be his disciple? Did you read the verse where he did not come to bring peace but rather a sword and to rip families apart? And he came to set the world on fire and how he wished it were already burning?
"Resist not evil" (like Hitler or Pol Pot), and if anyone strikes you on the cheek, invite them to pound the other one too. That does not inspire peace.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@sarah03ful
So you just sit here all day ad troll this site than when you get beat you just post an accusation in the appointment's comment box?
TheMrgoku1985 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[yes the catholics spread catholicism throught the sword but to remind you, protestant christianity and catholicism are two different religions, they seem the same to people like you who dont know that much about what the bible...]]
I know quite a bit about the bible. You only know your dogma and doctrine. It's funny, Christians like to count themselves as a whole when there is a head-count, and then call themselves "different religions" when it comes down to brass tacks.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@sarah03ful i also read in the bible that adulterer women should be stoned to death, do you fulfill this task that god all just has given to you? i really think you should read some serious books on evolution, you don't seem to get it, less complex doesn't less adapted, a prokaryote is far less complex than a human being but completely adapted to its environment.
cuagmirag 1 week ago
@cuagmirag Stoning of the adulterous woman or man was for the ancient Israelites but Jesus nullified this law nowhere in the New Testament it is written to stone people so stop spreading this lie that christians stones sinners ,oh well another atheist rhetoric
SonofJaphet 1 week ago
@SonofJaphet According to the Bible Jesus nullified only the sacrificial laws. It also says in the Old Testament that although the Levitical Laws are for the Jews, every gentile has knowledge of the law in his heart. Jesus says, "I came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it." So your argument doesn't work. The Levitical laws were atrocious. You can't excuse them because the imaginary being "changed his mind". Oh well. Another theist apologist.
ahhhhjjjj 6 days ago
@LucisFerre1
in Muslim Countries people get killed for converting to another religion. If you leave islam, ur family will stop talking to u. U dont get to see those things in Christianity.
Regarding Luke 14:26 & 12:51 What Jesus meant to say is that many times as a result of us becoming Chritians we will become the enemies of our parents siblings who will not accept & will even persecute us for becoming Christians. Believing in Christ many times brings division, fights within the family.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[in Muslim Countries people get killed for converting to another religion. If you leave islam, ur family will stop talking to u. U dont get to see those things in Christianity. ]]
You just contradicted yourself. You yourself just admitted that Jesus said he came not to bring peace, but to rip families apart.
[[Regarding Luke 14:26 & 12:51 What Jesus meant to say is that...]]
How arrogant to suggest that Jesus didn't mean what he said, but rather he meant what YOU say.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[Mohammed isnt attacked as much as Jesus is, neither people attack the Qoran as much as they do to the bible. ]]
Because you can no longer murder disbelievers at whim, and because the occidental world isn't as fooled by Islam's wolf in sheep's clothing routine as they are with the bible.
Both Christians and Muslims lie to themselves about the content of their religious tomes but in both cases it's for the nicer. YHWH and Allah are not moderate.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
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Concousness and God are the same thing. God created the universe by thinking the universe into existence and as a result, the universe responds to thought. Read the book the Secret!
Stevo6452 3 weeks ago
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@Stevo6452 said [[Concousness and God are the same thing. God created the universe by thinking the universe into existence and as a result, the universe responds to thought. Read the book the Secret!]]
"All consciousness comes from (other) consciousness".
That statement leads to an infinite regress that can never qualify as truth, ergo the alternative must be true, that at least some (if not all) consciousness comes from the non-conscious.
LucisFerre1 3 weeks ago
@Stevo6452 The secret is a scam book for the dim-witted...
Furthermore, you're promoting faulty philosophy.
joshbmorrow 3 weeks ago
@joshbmorrow Please explain where I am faulty
Stevo6452 3 weeks ago
@Stevo6452
You're faulty because you're mixing multiple theological/philosophical positions into one "cute package." Saying "Concousness and God are the same thing" may sound nice, and pleasant... And it may even sound "deep." But it's groundless, and has many theological implications relating to the nature of God, pantheism and the like.
The secret is a book that gives dangerous confidence to stupid people. Positive thinking is good - But it isn't the force behind success.
joshbmorrow 3 weeks ago
This "Ray Comfort" says that he **knows**. Not true.
He **believes**. Big difference between belief and knowledge. Knowledge is based on facts. Belief is based on *faith*.
latte123 3 weeks ago
How can you have a reasoned discussion with a sick mind like Ray. The guy is a class a f*ckwit
zapkvr 3 weeks ago
thunderfoot has great skill at keeping his face expressionless
skiesoceans 3 weeks ago
Ray comfort I saw you explanation of the banana. I would like to ask you what the purpose of your big mustache or the hair under arms or around your ass. Or why did god gave you nipples. Ignorant
AverhoffAlexander 4 weeks ago
@Somethingsifereable Just because your Jewish doesn't mean you can't accept Christ and repent for your sins. He is a Christian man of God. God's people will forever be hated, after all the devil is working with you and your being manipulated just the way he wants. It's not too late to accept the truth.
DSpree42 1 month ago
@DSpree42 You do not have any "truth". I'm sick and fucking tired of people saying that their God is "truth". If you were born in the middle east you would say that Allah is the truth, if you were born in India you would pray to Krishna. Stop thinking that you stumbled upon the ultimate meaning of life because when you pray to Jesus you feel fuzzy inside. You have no more truth than any other person, religion or belief system.
Stop thinking you do.
SuperBspb 3 weeks ago
please do not think all new zealanders are this crazy D: cringe...
CharlotteFromNZ 1 month ago
For those of you folks who don't know it, Ray Comfort isn't even a real creationist.He isn't even a christian either. He's a jew. He not only makes a mockery out of science, he laughs at the very gullible christians who believe in this shit and makes money off them. I'm going to put him in 3rd place on my phoney jew fraudster list right behind Dick Morris and Joe Cohen a.k.a Yousef al Khattab. It's a good thing this character debating Thunderfoot and not me. Thunderfoot is a gentleman. I'm not.
somethingdiffereable 1 month ago
It's obvious whenever a commentor chooses a winner, he goes off his beliefs.
I don't mind but don't try and pretend like it is an objective decision.
SparkyFirecracker 1 month ago
Neither make complete sense but Thunderfoot makes the least
lmadigan1971 1 month ago
You pwnt him Thunderf00t
ImJustFelix 1 month ago
I think that just because we haven't discovered something yet, or know how something works yet or why doesn't mean that you just fill in the gaps with religion. It's ridicules.
'How was the world made?'
'I dont know'
'So it must be God!'
-____-
Kassie0ate0a0cow 1 month ago in playlist Thunderf00t w Ray Comfort 3
@Kassie0ate0a0cow
Key word being "yet" :)
zsnaj 1 month ago
@Kassie0ate0a0cow
no, I dont think we are trying to fill gaps in science with religion, but all the opposite, the more we discover about science the more we know about the obvious design of life. If you had come to me hundreds of years ago(when we didnt know that much about cells) telling me that a cell came into existence without a creator, I would've believed you, but now, we know how complex a cell is, and saying that a creator didnt have any influence is harder to believe
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[no, I dont think we are trying to fill gaps in science with religion, but all the opposite, the more we discover about science the more we know about the obvious design of life.]]
I strongly suspect that biologists know more about biology than you do. Evolution theory of species is the backbone of modern biology.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
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dethronegod123 1 month ago
thunderfoot you da man!
dethronegod123 1 month ago
red = intellect
blue = idiot?
xonktrof1 1 month ago
@xonktrof1 Apparently so.
mimikawaii7386 1 month ago
" figures of speech...." what a cunt
markeybizz 1 month ago
"Saying you don't know is a cop out." definitely not words to live by.
Xinfinitude 1 month ago
it has to be one of the most crap arguments christians use. Because they can assert some bullshit they have absolutely no proof for, they believe this makes their argument stronger than that of people who prefer to be cautious and reserve their answer until more evidence is forthcoming.
sydcarten 1 month ago
Im only 16, i am humble enough to admit there are Atheists and Religious Believers who possess much greater knowledge on both sides of the debate than me, However i think the answer to everything is right in our faces, Religion is just un-identified/un-explained Science, that "thing" as i call it, religious believers call "God" (not neccesarily a being possibly a scientific force) and what scientists are yet too identify is the creator of earth, we all just have different perceptions of it.
4RealandTruth 1 month ago
Ray Comfort (banana man) is simply not qualified to be having this conversation. The nature of this conversation is exactly why Dawkins doesn't dignify this goob with the opportunity to show his cluelessness. It's like being on Hardtalk if Hardtalk were hosted by an 8 year old child.
LucisFerre1 1 month ago 14
@LucisFerre1 neither is any other creationist.
tarun1982 3 weeks ago
@LucisFerre1
Richard Dawkins is nothing more than an angry, frustrated, and arrogant man. Actually it should be Ray the one refusing to talk to him cause Jesus told us not to be feeding dogs what is sacred and not to be casting our pearls to swines
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful, Did Jesus teach you to call people dogs and swine?
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[Richard Dawkins is nothing more than an angry, frustrated, and arrogant man. ]]
Funny, you're the one praying for Jesus to bring on the end of days and the end of the world. His alleged pessimism can't possibly compare to yours.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@sarah03ful
watch?v=S9am3mfaE6U
Tested by M.D.'s, and primate specialist no medical experts examined it in this creationism movement. You claims where not put thru the peer review process do not lie.There is no debate trust me I have see both cast of lucy and cast of chimps this is not a chimp the knee and hip joints SHOW this. The peer review process is used to correct mistakes quit lieing. There is no debate among us in the field is legitimate Ray and Kirk lied and you are defending that lie
TheMrgoku1985 1 week ago
@TheMrgoku1985
the thing is that most scientists who test those fossils are atheists. I do believe that atheist scientists are influenced by their believes. We all are. We dont deny the findings but the problem is how we interpret them. If those fossils look like humans, that doesnt mean humans came from them, this is an assumption those atheist scientists make based on their own worldview that there is no God who created us but that we are the product of apes
sarah03ful 1 week ago
@sarah03ful
"the predominant evolutionary biologist(macrobiologst included) are believers in god, and guys like Dawkins are just a vocal minority"
-William Lane Craig
Quit lieing
You are arguing about fossils examined by people with medical degrees and retested by others with medical degrees to TEST if they came to the same conclusion.
Those copy's of cast I looked at had radical differences from chimps
TheMrgoku1985 1 week ago
@TheMrgoku1985
as I said, if those medical doctors proved that those fossils look like humans still that doesnt mean anything. Just because humans look like them doesnt mean they came from them. it is an assumption they are making.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
@sarah03ful
I was talking about Lucy. Does the 9th commandment mean nothing to you?
TheMrgoku1985 1 week ago
@TheMrgoku1985
Lucy most likely was an extinct ape
i will repeat this, it is not denying the evidence for the findings but on how we interpret them. It is like with DNA, no one denies our DNA is 98% similar to apes but it is all a fact on how we interpret it. If God created certain animals with similar parts for survival like lungs etc it is obvious they will have similar DNAs. You say it is the product of evolution but neither you nor me were there to see whether it was God or evolution.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[Lucy most likely was an extinct ape]]
In modern biology, YOU are an ape. So am I. We're of the Family Hominidae, and of the Superfamily called Hominoids and the order called Primates. Members of the Family called Hominadae are referred to as "Great Apes". According to modern biology, you and I are of the Great Ape family. (Not to be confused with Grape Ape, lol).
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@sarah03ful
Not an assertion this is what the tested evidence SHOWS,
You are just trying to argue your way out of facts now.
And common seance tells us worms spontaneously come from frut and the sun revolves around the earth.
TheMrgoku1985 1 week ago
@TheMrgoku1985
the sun orbiting around the earth did not come from the bible but from Ptolemy and Aristotle.
Actually it has been the watchmaker the one that has been debunked.
So far there have not been any evidence or logical explanations for the complexity of life. Neither there have been any evidence for abiogenesis. Abiogenesis is something refutable as it has been confirmed by science that only life gives life to life.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[Abiogenesis is something refutable as it has been confirmed by science that only life gives life to life.]]
"All life comes from (other) life".
That statement leads to an infinite regress which can never quality as true, therefore the alternative MUST be true. The alternative is that some life MUST have come from non-life or the non-living. No 'gods' required.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@LucisFerre1
yes but what you are saying is refutable, this confirmed by science. Read about Pasteur who was the one who demonstrated biogenesis "all life is from life" what you are saying is totally refutable
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful "All life comes from (other) life" is impossible. It leads to an infinite regress.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@LucisFerre1
not if you put a creator.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[not if you put a creator.]]
Of course it does, as we can see in the Cosmological Argument.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@sarah03ful
This premise was given to us by common seance did not bring up the bible or your interpretation of what this god is just evolution now you are using another detraction technique by dragging things off topic while you still continue to re use arguments I just debunked with facts based on tested data packed by the peer review process.
TheMrgoku1985 1 week ago
@TheMrgoku1985
no I was trying to use the DNA as an example on how it is not a matter of denying the findings but a matter of how we interpret things, it is not that I was trying to go off topic.
You havent debunked anything, as i said it is all about your worldview.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
@sarah03ful
Human chromosome 2, Matching endogenous retro-viral sequences between the grate apes and humans, recessive genes, tail muscle in humans, Progressive patterns in comparative genes, Junk DNA, Single strain DNA.+multiple dating methods that agree with each other with an extremely low % margin of error proving the earth is old enough for the time needed for macro change and Ring species, nylon eating bacteria(example of new information created from a mutation).
TheMrgoku1985 1 week ago
@TheMrgoku1985
actually Junk DNA has been proven not to be junk DNA. Scientists believe that only 5% of our DNA is used but it has been proven that actually the rest of the DNA does have a use.
It is like when scientistis use vestigial organs, ex: the coccyx, they use it as prove that humans used to have a tail but later lost it and has no use anymore but the coccyx has actually been proven to have a purpose, without it, we would not be able to sit.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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TheMrgoku1985 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful Reworked argument it is leftover DNA.
Have any peer reviewd test against it instead of an argument ? Words do not prove shit.
TheMrgoku1985 1 week ago
@TheMrgoku1985
evolution within species has been proven right, different species of cats dogs etc but they are still cats and dogs, that a dog turned into a cat etc is another story, there is no evidence for that.
Scientists say that through mutations one animal has turned into another over millions of years but mutations mostly are not beneficial, it involves the loss of information.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful There is no such thing as "macro" and "micro" evolution, as there is no invisible partition preventing branched species from changing to the extent that it can no longer produce viable offspring with other branches.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@sarah03ful
Evolution is biology not a world view what next water turning in to clouds is a world view?
TheMrgoku1985 1 week ago
@TheMrgoku1985
life is way too complex to have been created without the existence of a creator. Just look at the complexity of a cell. Everything in our bodies and nature indicates design.
You just have to use common sense.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
@sarah03ful
Watchmaker argument has been debunked. Try again.
TheMrgoku1985 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[life is way too complex to have been created without the existence of a creator. ]]
"All complexity comes from (other) complexity".
That statement leads to an infinite regress and can never qualify as true. Therefore the alternative MUST be true, that at least some complexity comes from the lesser complex.
No 'gods' required.
For examples, google "Emergent Complexity" or simply "Emergence" or "Emergent Behavior".
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@LucisFerre1
supposed what you say is true, "complexity came from less complex"
tell me, how did species survive when they didnt have all the parts that today are needed for survival? tell me, what evolved first the heart or the blood?
If species evolved how were they reproducing while they were evolving ovaries, testicles etc? If one of them lacked any of these, that would mean the extinction of the species.
sarah03ful 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[tell me, how did species survive when they didnt have all the parts that today are needed for survival? tell me, what evolved first the heart or the blood?]]
Evolution of species is evolution of species. It has nothing to do with organelles magically popping into existence. You seem to be confusing evolution with the theistic "Poof" theory.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
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@sarah03ful said [[the thing is that most scientists who test those fossils are atheists.]]
How do you know? BTW evolution theory of species is accepted by the Vatican. Did you know that?
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
i fucking hate it when he says "you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do! you dont know, i do!....um, wheres your fucking proof moron?
yourallbrainwashed 1 month ago
Thunderboy's stutter is similar to barrack obamas lol!
FarmboyRecords 1 month ago
I find it fairly odd but quite interesting how Thunder foot supports and strongly advocates science and scientific discovery, But when it comes to the beginning of the universe and whether or not it eternal he acts clueless. When its quite obvious science suggests strongly , Very Strongly ! that it began to exist a finite time ago. Even the great but some what atheistic Stephen Hawking said "“Almost everyone believes that the universe, and time itself, had a beginning at the big bang."
yhwhizlife1 1 month ago
@yhwhizlife1
Thunderf00t sounds more like an agnostic than an atheist to me. And you can respect the role science plays in our lives, but as it pertains to the universe, it is impossible to know whether or not it's eternal. Evolution and creationism are simply two sides of the same (unprovable) coin. At the end of the day, they're both just theories.
shelton705 1 month ago
@shelton705 in my opinion The "new Atheists " are just agnostics claiming to be atheists. They have even redefined the word atheist as " a lack of belief in God " but this defintion makes them no different from an agnostic , Verificationist or my beloved pet Dog Cosmo all three of which lack a belief in god . Its most certainly an ad hoc definition. logic and Big Bang cosmology certainly suggests strongly that the universe isnt eternal.
yhwhizlife1 1 month ago
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@yhwhizlife1 said [[in my opinion The "new Atheists " are just agnostics claiming to be atheists. They have even redefined the word atheist as " a lack of belief in God " but this defintion makes them no different from an agnostic , ]]
If you're going to discuss using words, it's important to know the meaning of them. Theism/atheism deal with belief or lack of belief respectively, and gnosis/agnosticism deal with knowing or not knowing respectively. Knowledge is not belief. Basic epistemology
LucisFerre1 3 weeks ago
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@yhwhizlife1 said [[ They have even redefined the word atheist as " a lack of belief in God " but this defintion makes them no different from an agnostic , ]]
The prefix "a" means not, non- or without. It does not means anti-.
Atypical means not typical. Asymmetric means not symmetric. Atheist means not a theist.
LucisFerre1 3 weeks ago
@shelton705 You can ignore or reject scientific discovery because it challenges your world view, but dont then turn around and attempt to use scientific discovery to support your own world view when its convenient , Its nonsensical
yhwhizlife1 1 month ago
ffs man why didnt he ask how was god created, since everything created has a creator who created god lol
lordofwarr 1 month ago in playlist Thunderf00t w Ray Comfort
@lordofwarr He probably didnt ask because the common refute is "God doesn't need a creator, he is eternal and above time..blah blah."
buttersdus 1 month ago
Ray thinks he is so great, he seems quite arrogant to think that all the answers of the universe are in his bible.
Spaceman2451 1 month ago
I just looove when a christian asks me what happened in the beginning and when i say i dont know they say wow then there must be a god ?how stupid could you be to believe in something you dont even know how it was made! and i say well who the fuck made god?
AlexRaveloTV 1 month ago
thunderfoot should stick to something like stamp collecting cause hes getting owned.
jpgrygus 1 month ago
I really don't understand this argument: we cannot explain the origin of the universe, therefor my particular religion is correct. How does this make any sense? If we don't use empirical data to form our understanding of reality, then how do I pick what to believe in? If I don't use evidence, then the earth could be 6000 years old, 10000, or 22 trillion for all I know.
crazymono5 1 month ago
@bobcatallstar7 If you said there was a Unicorn behind me, and I turn around and there is no unicorn, do I have to prove there was no unicorn? Or do you have to prove there was a unicorn? And is it wrong to believe there was no unicorn, until such time as you have presented the evidence to point to there being a unicorn there? The same is true for God. You ask us to not use Science, Science is the best thing we have for determining what is false, and what is true. Do you have something better?
RobWRobins 1 month ago
@RobWRobins The fact is that the unicorn (God) has been proven, its just that when you turn around you ignorant atheists just dont want to accept the truth.
jpgrygus 1 month ago
@jpgrygus Please provide me one source that says God has been proven, conclusively.
RobWRobins 1 month ago
@jpgrygus It should be real easy if it's a fact that's been proven. You'd think Christians would really want all this proof. Did you know there are people offering millions of dollars for proof of God? Go collect your money man.
RobWRobins 1 month ago
@happymom2day Really? You think HIS ears are closed? Ray is the most close minded, ignorant fool out there. Ray claims certainty, in everything. With no evidence. How can you be CERTAIN about something, if that something has nothing to point to it's certainty? He claims to KNOW how the universe started. Do you not see how rediculous this is? Do you not understand how impossible it is to claim absolute certainty about creation? You're as ignorant as Ray and the rest of his bible buddies.
RobWRobins 1 month ago
Poor guy. Stuttering, stumbling, and interrupting Ray without giving him much eye contact. He says what he believes is unknown. It's unknown to him because his ears are closed to what Ray is saying.
happymom2day 1 month ago
@happymom2day So, your logic here is: it is unknown therefore God?
What a moron you are.
majestic93 1 month ago
Atheist, just one question Do you think you can disprove God without science?
bobcatallstar7 1 month ago
@bobcatallstar7 I cannot imagine a more irrelevant and stupid question. If you are attempting to prove you have no grasp of the larger issue, you have succeeded.
sailcat9 1 month ago
@bobcatallstar7 Logical thinking would be enough to do that
racesmurf 1 month ago
@bobcatallstar7 - yep.
MrFrothinger 1 month ago in playlist Thunderf00t w Ray Comfort
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@bobcatallstar7 said [["Do you think you can disprove God without science?"]]
There is no need to disprove that which has zero evidence of it even being *POSSIBLE*.
Presuming existence until disproved leads to a contradiction. Let's call the presumption of existence the Presumption Principle. (PP).
Let's call YHWH "Y" and Steve S, where Steve is the 'god' mutually exclusive to Y.
PP implies Y and S equally, yet S is = to 'not Y' Ergo PP supports Y & not Y equally. Contradiction.
LucisFerre1 3 weeks ago
It seems atheist rely on science so much in trying to disprove God. And I know that some christians try to prove God without the bibles help and they don't do a very good job at trying to do so. Which makes me mad because I know there is evidence of God. But everytime i hear a atheist try to disprove god they always rely on science. Which brings me to this question. Atheist can you try and disprove God without science help?
bobcatallstar7 1 month ago
@bobcatallstar7 Atheists don't need to disprove god. Science makes no statement concerning the existence of a god. Science deals with the natural world, and believers like to claim that god exists outside of space, time, nature, etc. Thus, science can make no judgment on this topic.
Science ALSO doesn't make judgments on the existence of fairies, leprechauns, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus... you see where I'm going with this.
chazcov08 1 month ago
you cant talk to ray because hes not listening, because he thinks he knows something very special that you just dont understand. and therefore you are below him, and in his mind you have nothing to teach him and he has nothing to learn from you. he thinks god speaks directly through him and therefore he is god and you are just his child and he has nothing to learn from you. so he'll never listen to you until he wakes up. he is delusional! so unfortunetly its just a waste of time to talk to him!
yourallbrainwashed 2 months ago 23
@yourallbrainwashed It's like Edward Current said, he's a question sayer rather than asker.
Tr0llinF0rC4sh 1 month ago
@yourallbrainwashed ??? are you for real, Ray is doing most of the listening. Watch carefully and you will see Thunderfoot is doing all the talking and cutting off Ray Comfort continually.
Robcartl 4 weeks ago