Added: 5 years ago
From: johnharlin
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  • Yeah, Viren didn't dope. It is unclear if blood doping even really boosts performance. What is clear is it can cause you to stroke out or have a heart attack when your blood coagulates. Viren catches flak because he did so well in the games, yet was relatively low key between them. That was because he was a master at peaking, because he trained with Kenyans, he focused on goals. Pre was great, in the U.S., but his victories in international races are more spotty. He was still developing.

  • like? fuking love! pre is the inspiration for the everyman to push himself to the limit.. no better man

  • "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."

    A moto I live by each and every day.

    Thank you Pre.

  • PRE! PRE! PRE! PRE! PRE! PRE! PRE! PRE!

  • viren did not blood dope.

  • Put it this way; if you run at 6:00 per mile pace you'll finish a 5K in 18:39 vs. 18:00 if it was just 3.0 miles.

  • wow 3 miles is 4800 meters a 5k is 5000 meters... theres a 200 meter difference.

  • I'm glad that long-distance runners have someone like Pre to really give long-distance running the credit it deserves. 

  • i ran at pres trail in alton baker park in eugene oregon where he trained everyday it was amazing

  • i couldn't breathe for a while...

  • haha look at his arms :)

  • @Papillonarretez 5k is 5000m, 3 mile is 3x1609 = 4827m.

    but close enough, eh?

  • @Papillonarretez lol. yea, .1 is 27 seconds...its big difference...and a 5k is 3.1

  • go ducks

  • holy crapi would give so much to finish a 3 mile like that....

  • I'm pretty sure this is a 3 mile. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Pre never ran a 12:58 5K. Anywhoo, that was a great race. Pre = greatest runner ever, maybe no longer in times but no one can ever match his spirit and determination.

  • @bombay55100 i think only 1 or 2 american has run sub13 5k. kennedy and ritz i believe. cant compare times from eras so far apart though. tracks are faster and shoes are better. science and training methods much more advanced. heck pre would stay drinking beer and eat junk food then run a race.

  • Kennedy, Ritz, Tegenkemp, Solinsky, and Lagat have all run under 13 minutes.

  • @YiftertheShifter1 sol and teg must have run sub 13 more recent then. i watched lagat at pre classic in bowerman mile. he didnt look good. finished way back.

  • Solinsky, yes. Tegenkemp did 12:58 only a week after Ritz, in Brussels last year. Lagat's recent mile/ 1500m performances have been mediocre, but his 12:54 5000m in Oslo and indoor championship win recently suggests that his training/ strengths are becoming more distance oriented. Don't dismiss BL.

  • @YiftertheShifter1 Lagat is Kenyan.

  • @467076 No Lagat WAS Kenyan. He is a US citizen, and has been for the last five years. Just look at the US record books for proof.

  • good video, wish it was whole race though...

  • thats fast 13 min..

    and 3 miles

  • What does blood-doping do? Is it like an enhancement of your oxygen intake or is it more like steroids?

  • Blood doping increases your red blood cell content, and thus your ability to carry oxygen to your muscles. The effects last about three to four weeks. The problem is that with repeated injections, the blood gets thicker and more viscous, a danger for atherosclerosis; there is also the danger of infection, blood clotting, etc...

  • Comment removed

  • @CodyEliff 5000 meters is 3.12 miles it makes at least a 20 second difference.

  • And that's if you sprint the last 200 meters at the 200 metre world record pace... it would actually probably make a 30+ second difference

  • @BloodyHowlingX Yeah i was downplaying, to give Pre an even faster overall difference.

  • not true. winston408 and dandil408 are right

  • in the movie without limits, they talk about colin ponder, director of the aau, being a dick

    is he a fictional character/made up name?

  • He's real.

  • I believe it's a tongue-in-cheek reference to "Colon Pounder." An inside joke that wasn't all the subtle, I think.

  • Viren trainer with Arthur Lydiard. Sure he could have been blood doping, but I think he just had an amazing coach and a good amount of talent.

  • Viren's coach was Rolf Haikola, not Lydiard.

  • Sure he could have been blood doping, but none of you can prove he was (or for that matter, that Pre wasn't).

  • Pre never ran 5000m under 13 minutes. I think this race is a 3-mile

  • @TorstenBM

    It is 3 miles run as the speaker says at 1:10. I'm not good in english but I've heard that. ;)

  • @TorstenBM 3mile is 5000m. 5m= 5K. That's AMAZING

  • @HairROXSox theres a difference between 3mile and 5k. TorstenBM already did the math. A 5k is ~27 meters longer

  • @TorstenBM well yea it's a 3-mile run the anouncer says it in the clip

  • @TorstenBM

    the first second of the video tells you its a 3 mile

  • I find it funny that the same stupid person who wrote "... lost to Lasse Viren of Finland whose entire team was later found to be blood doping," is also stupid enough to confuse this as a 5000 meter race. Coincidence? Hell no.

  • Viren was also aided by the African boycott of the 76 olympics. No boycott and maybe Yifter is the two time 5k/1ok olympic double winner

  • Comment removed

  • @oldjoe5 Well, judging by his fitness at the '76 games, though not quite as fit as in Munich/ '72, I wouldn't exactly dismiss Viren's chances of gold even without the African boycott. Viren ran 13:31.xx for the second half of the 10K, which is 27:02 pace (WR in '76 was 27:30); the 5K was one of the best distance races in Olympic history, so a big question mark lies on how African runners might have affected the results...

  • Wow, really nice finish, I love to sprint the last 200m of a 5000m race, it's like you want to die, the pain and suffer it's the only thing you feel, and then you sprint like you where running a 800m, don't know where that energy comes, but in the end, it makes me feel "woow I have big gutts"

  • Elaborate. Who proved it? What person/ organization announced that Viren blood doped? What date was this proved? How was it proven? Did Viren admit to it? Please, educate us "idiots."

  • No, you can't prove it to us, just like every other idiotic conspiracy theorist who's told us that Viren blood doped... please spare us your hideous libels, and post your drivel on like-mindedly uneducated forums.

  • Viren never admitted to this and if it was proved that he blood doped, it was never made available to the public.

    But I am pretty sure he was doing something nefarious. What is your guess?

  • @oldjoe5 Well, if it was discovered beyond doubt that Viren blood doped, I'm not sure why that certain someone who discovered it would keep it a secret in the 30 years since.

    I am not sure what you mean by nefarious... If he wasn't blood doping (though legal), then is winning four gold medals a crime?

  • Yifter. I think the likelihood is that Viren did indeed blood dope.

    You don't?

  • @oldjoe5 I think there's evidence that he didn't.

  • It's always the pathetic Pre worshippers that say Viren doped, or that Pre "shoulda, woulda, coulda" at a later date. Nothing but losers with no proof.

  • Run Steve RUN!

  • ALL OF U STOP ARGUING none of u kno pre only his family and his freinds kno him well enough and none of u can prove that u kno him well he was a good runner and a good person

  • how do i prove it musclehulk1

  • this is a great video thank you so much for posting it pre was a great runner and so were those other athletes running with him i wish steve could be alive today, May he rest in peace.

  • Just in case any of you don't know this, Pre was so good that two Hollywood films were made of him. They were "Without Limits" and "Prefontaine." The better one was "Without Limits." I tried very hard to get a 5K run-off between the two Pre actors in each movie. It would have been a great stunt. I loved the close resemblance of the actor to Pre in "Without Limits." Super runners were also in that movie including Frank Shorter, Kenny Moore and Pat Porter who played Viren.

  • ya they are good movies, thank you for posting this : )

  • billy crudup would destroy the guy from prefontaine. he actually looked like a runner and i heard he trained. prefontaine was kinda stupid because that guy looked nothing like steve and did not run like him at all and didnt look likle a runner

  • I agree with you, Billy Crudup was way better than Jared Leto, Billy look like Pre, Leto was like a Gay Barbie Pre, Prefontaine it's a nice movie, but Without Limits is the best!!!

  • @franforest without limits is a good hollywood version but i found prefontaine more about the sport its self know what i mean?

  • @franforest without limits was sooooo much better

  • @franforest have u ever seen the "Blow" with jonny depp? a couple moments in the vid i thought he looked like billy crudup

  • @johnharlin "whose entire team was later found to be blood doping" you stupid idiot you should be shot for your overwhelming stupidness. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone as stupid as you. Wow. 1st off Lasse Viren was never part of any team 2nd Nobody was ever able to put together one iota of evidence that he was blood doping. If you have any evidence to the contrary (even a good link will do), please, I'm all ears. Idiot. God how stupid can you be.

  • @johnharlin Hi John,  Pat Porter here. How are you?

  • @johnharlin I think you are forgetting "Fire on the track" as well...

  • I stopped there because my opinions are not worth fighting with someone else over.

  • What evidence would that be?

  • Of him doping? That's what I'm asking you!

    Of him not doping? Read my comment again. It's there.

  • Alledgedly, viren (and pre) were better runners than everyone here and I'm pretty sure that none of you knew them so please stop arguing.

  • For all the pre haters and lovers: You're never gonna change anyone elses mind. Personally I think that there is enough evidence to discredit viren. It also was never proven. Maybe you all should focus on making yourself better runners. (Btw, I could say that I ran a better time than you, but unless I become famous it will never be proven, so why should I be a jackass and try to piss people off?) Stop slamming on a video that was never meant to insult anyone. Even without doping, (continued next

  • I'm not buying this. You say there is enough evidence to discredit Viren, yet you conveniently stopped there without being specific enough. In either case... I'm not slamming the video, I'm slamming the description: "lost to Lasse Viren of Finland... later found to be blood doping." There is evidence that he did NOT blood dope... the effects aren't long lasting, and Viren raced 20 times between April and Munich at highly competitive levels. Time to lay this slanderous rumor to rest.

  • blood doped several times idiot. and between championship years he sucked, reaaly sucked!

  • LOL. You're blood doping. I don't need proof, I can accuse whoever I want. You really need to get a brain... lucky you Viren isn't suing you for libel (why would he need to? He's got four gold medals... to rub in that fat old face of yours).

    Who cares? Viren cared only about the olympics, just leave it at that. Plus he had multiple ankle and hamstring injuries leading up to Montreal. And if Viren sucked... Pre sucked more! Pre lost to Viren... TWICE.

  • hey mistah, time to come out of the closet

  • No, time to give you a lethal dose of cold, hard reality.

  • oyeeah give me the cold, hard reality mr homo. how are you today?

  • when did he race him twice

  • The first time was Munich of course.

    The second time was a race between Viren, Prefontaine, and future olympic champion Anders Gärderud in 1974, two days after the European championships. Viren triumphed, winning in 13:26.0.

  • yo... i am gana be better then prefontaine he ran a 5:20 mile in 9th grade i run a 4:52 in 7th

  • prove it.

  • whats your point?

  • by saying that you are ensuring that you won't be faster than him

  • It is beautiful to see what real athletes accomplish off pure training.  Not like those glassy-eyed Euros! (:

  • justing gatlin, marion jones, ben johnson... it's not fair to say 'glassy-eyed euros'

  • Guess I should have said "glassy-eyed Eastern Euros". After all, it was the Iron Curtain countries that invented performance enhancing drug use.

  • Besides Zatopek, I can't really name that many successful long-distance runners from Iron Curtain countries.

  • Don't forget Jurgen Hasse, Olaf Beyer, Evgeni Arzhanov, Jurgen Straub, to name a few.

    And I wouldn't count Zatopek as one of those glassy-eyed types, since most Czechs were secretly resistent to Soviet domination of that time. Yeah, he was probably a commie, but a reluctant one.

  • Oh yeah, right. Most of those are middle distance, I was thinking long-distance, but I guess that's good enough.

    As for Zatopek... well, after the 1968, he was one of those forced into labor for the most of the remainder of his life, so I doubt he has any love for communism.

  • There should be no debate, Viren blood doped, there for he is a cheat and all his times should be disallowed...Pre Forever!

  • Ha ha ha ha ha! Pre blood doped... I don't need to debate that nor do I need to hand in solid proof at all. I just feel like making that accusation.

    You really are an idiot.

  • There IS no debate, asshole. Never proven.

  • open your fuckin eyes dipshit, YES he did!  Look it up

  • ok, FUCKING DIPSHIT, since no one ELSE can find it, DIPSHIT, why don't you show EVERYONE the link, DIPSHIT? Fucking lying asshole.

  • Where?

  • true it was never proven. it's also never been proven that Barry Bonds took sook steroids or Big Mac or Clemens. but...

  • Okay, Pre was in his very early 20's when he went to the Olympics, Viren and the rest of the Olympic runners had more experience and more years of training, their all great athletes, and we'll never know who would've won at the 76' Olympics. All great athletes, I respect Pre to the highest degree along with Viren, they both had guts.

  • 1. Viren was 23, Pre 21/22, Gammoudi 34. Pre's age wasn't that much of a disadvantage, it can hardly be said that Viren had so much experience; if you want young people, try Kipchoge: 19!

    2. Given how that race turned out, I have a hard time believing Pre would have beaten Viren. Pre was a great runner, but tactics and finishing speed help a runner win an Olympic race...

  • He did begin to run a race smart, he tried in the Olympics, he did it at his trials too, he did goes balls out in the LA times mile in 73 and 75 but to be fair that wasn't his best event. Wow Viren was 23? he looked like he was Gammoudi's age, sorry I didn't really look up Viren's age so I'll admit I lost that part, but he did try tactics every once in a while, and he did have speed, for the Olympics his last mile 4:04! like damn, at least I think it was 4:04.

  • Yeah, it was 4:04, off a slow pace though. Viren's was 4:00-4:01 (for comparison, Bekele ran 3:57 for his last mile in Beijing).

  • Yeah they ran a really fast last mile after doing 8 laps already.

  • yeah but kipchoge had already ran a 12:52 5k when he was 18. now that is crazy.

  • true

  • Viren blood doped and that is FACT. Anybody that says otherwise is uneducated. Pre was legit.

  • DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER? No, you don't. The movie description is not only erroneous, it is tantamount to libel.

  • lol can you sound more like a douche?

  • Oh yeah, by wasting my time arguing with complete idiots like you, lol.

  • im a SHIT distance runner, ive been running 5km consistently for wrestling, sjut for general fitness, and to say the truth, after maybe 2 eyars of running, on and off, i am running 5km in 30 minutes, but that was after a 2 week hiatus, my best ever time for 5K was 23 minutes, with 4 weeks of consistent training, but what i mean is 5km in 30 minutes for an "ex-runner" is bad, does this mean i am fast twitch explosive person, and that i shood be better at 400m and sprint running?!?!? and weights??

  • at 30 minutes,

    its just the lack of training,

    you can runn sub 23, trust me,

    and you need to go harder, past what you think ur limits are.

    if your a strong sprinter you will be,

    you need to learn to sprint the whole time. if your 15 like me then your 400 should be under 60 seconds.

  • well, i do train hard, trainign hard i dont think is my problem, wehn i run i run with intervals, so i hit sprints whenever i come to the base of a hill, sometimes 80m or more in length, and i try to sprint all the way up, i push my self until at the top of that hill i feel like puking, i dont puke though, but it wouldnt take much more to make me puke....

  • I love doing training like that(You have to love pain to deal with it).

  • I'd be happy if I could break 15mins for a 5k at the moment

  • pre all the way

    then maybe goucher.

    idk there isnt many that many people would know.

  • POSSIBLY THE GREATEST RUNNER OF ALL TIME?? GO PRE!

    or is it Haile gebrselasie ?

    HEY RUNNERS WHOS YOUR FAV RUNNER OF ALL TIME?

  • arcade.............it is Kenninisa Bekele.....Prefontaine would have loved this guy I bet.........but on the women's side, Kara Goucher is amazing, and she has gorgeous legs.

  • I measure runners based on best times, credentials, and consistency. Pre may have had the charisma, but he lacked all three elements that would give him the high rank in my book. In the 1970s, Viren had the best combined 5K/10K, the highest credentials in both (four golds, something yet to be done by Bekele); he may not have had the consistency, but it's no wonder David Coleman said: "Lasse Viren, the greatest distance runner in the world..." at the end of the Montreal 5K.

  • If you're going to measure with those measurements.....then I'd say time is the most important. Who holds the world record in the 10k? as we all know Bekele is the best runner at that distance ever, until someone can beat his record.....it's hard to measure golds, because yifter wasn't allowed by his country to run in "76". ...he would have taught Viren a lesson just like in "80" when he passed him like he was standing still, Kenenisa Bekele would have done the same with his times.

  • Springsteel333 according to that insinuation, David Bedford, who eventually ran 27:30, was sixth in the 10K, with Yifter in 3rd, Viren winning gold in a then WR. The highest credential is an Olympic gold medal, which not all world record holders earn... even Bekele, the WR holder at 5K failed a few times at earning a 5K gold (something only Viren has done twice).

  • Do not compare Bekele and Viren simply on the basis of times... Bekele probably had races set up for him to set fast times/ break WRs, which Viren never had in his days. Different eras make up for different standards, as I'm sure you know, but love to forget. In fact, I've noticed an eerie similarity between Bekele's olympic races and Viren's, particularly the Montreal/ Beijing 5K.

  • Viren blood doped.

  • Your proof? NONEXISTANT!

  • radicalsasquatch, you really need to keep your mouth from running on because your brain is not capable of putting together circumstantial evidence. In 1980, Kaarlo Maaninka of Finland won the Olympic silver in the 10k and bronze in the 5k. Many years later he admitted to blooddoping. They had no tests then and Viren and Vasala kept their mouths shut. That's why they got away with it.

  • radicalsasquatch, Martti Vainio wrote a book. He said, widespread doping had been common in Finnish athletics for a long time. And that at a meeting at the Finnish sports institute, he was told that everything should be done so that Finnish running should be among the best in the world. Now do you get the picture.

  • The Finnish sports Fed encouraged cheating. Martti Vainio was tested positive months before the 1984 Olympics for steroids and blood doping by the Finnish Federation after the Rotterdam Marathon early '84. They encouraged him. That year he won the Olympic silver in the 10,000. However the steroids were still in his blood pack and so it was detected by the Olympic testers and he was disqualified. Those Finn scum would use anything. The pattern is clear.

  • The Finnish Sports Federation would send their long distance runners up to very high altitude before each Olympics. Not for any lengthy period of time, just for several weeks. Just long enough to enrich their blood and have it extracted in packs. Then they would not even be at altitude for the months preceding the Olympics. So their could only be one reason. The pattern is undeniably clear. Blood doping.

  • flagged for misleading text + douchebag video poster.

  • Comment removed

  • You really enjoy promoting slander don't you?

    There is no evidence that Viren blood doped. That's just some rumor you found on the internet and then claimed to be true on this video.  Why do you have to be such a fucking lameshit?

  • I didn't know how far they were running until they said 3 miles. I was like holy $#*! Thats so fast

  • i meant to say 24 when he died

  • Prefontaine was not the greatest when it came to running against blood doped and probably steroid pumped runners like Lasse Viren or his teammate Pekka Vasala who won the 1500. Recently, I even discovered a post that the announcer of the 1972 Olympic 10k mentioned that Viren had to see doctors for a blood treatment between qualifying and final rounds. There is no question in my mind that he and his entire team were shot up with anything and everything that could help them win.

  • Fucking pussy statement, Harlin. Take your unproven shit poison and post it somewhere else.

  • why do people say he Prefontaine wasn't that good when he was only 24. Also I think hes good even though he didn't always win the races he did, he had a shorter leg and wasn't as tall as other people he race.

  • Prefantain is still alive

  • If only you could spell his name correctly

  • Stop bad-mouthing Viren. He WAS NEVER proved to be doped. He kicked Pre's ass in Munich even though he gave Pre a huge advantage due to the fact he ran (and won by WR time) the 10k metres race just a few days earlier. Viren is won both the 5k metres and 10k meters BACK TO BACK in the olympics. Something had never been achieved before and most likely will never be done again. Viren is the greatest long distance runner of all time behing Paavo Nurmi.

  • DaveMustaineFan, you are entitled to your opinions, but didnt keninisa bekele do that same feat, the 5k and 10k double gold recently? and Hailie Gebresalasie is the worlds greatest distance runner, paavo was amazing but you cant compare viren to those two, and its blasphemy to not even mention Geb when refering to long distance running, my two cents

  • Bekele has 3 gold medals and one silver in the olympics. Gebre is/was without a doubt one of the greatest. I just forgot to mention him.

  • He also had an extra day's race in Munich. Also, the insensitive bastard wasn't afflicted by the killings in Munich the way that Pre was. Pre was majorly fucked up by that shit.

    That grimy asshole Viren was doping, no doubt about it.

  • No doubt? Then show your proof, not your blind rhetoric, asshole.

  • We really should stop talking to this douchebag. You can't cure stupid.

    It's like trying to tell a devout Catholic that there is no God. Or trying to tell an atheist that there is a God. It won't get past their thick skulls.

    I say, who the fuck cares, Viren might have been taking those things, but for all we know, Pre could have been to. Where in your infallible logic does it say that he couldn't have, Harlin?

  • Just flag the video for misleading text or something.  That's what I did. I can't stand this douchebag.

  • If Pre lived a bit longer, I'm pretty sure we would've seen some amazing 10k times.

  • 5 kilometers is 3.1 miles.

  • during those days blood doping wasnt illegal, so it's possible that a lot of people did it and nobody could have known about it. I'm not accusing ANYONE, im just saying that a lot of athletes could have gotten away with it without getting into trouble.

  • i have to do a project on this guy so, thanks for a good link for my project, thanks man

  • clearly you aren't a runner, so you need to open your eyes. its possible without drugs. you have to remember a 50s last lap does not have the same velocity as a 50s 400m with a block start so its a little easier especially given that level of conditioning. he also had 2 guys finish within 2 seconds of his 10000 word record in that race. they pushed him, so obviously he had to blitz them for a 50s 400 to take the win. people pull crazy stuff off in olympic finals even though they are super tired.

  • Right on! Johnharlin is just upset because his hero got DRILLED by not only Viren, but by Gammoudi AND Stewart.

  • VIREN SAID HIMSELF HE WAS DOPED!!

    HAHAHAHAHHAH

    looks like you admire a cheater

  • Fucking LIAR. Go read the news article, FUKWAD.

  • really?  When did he say that? Show me a source.

  • pre never had a world record

  • died too young

  • prporter1, Viran ran a heat and won the final in the 10,000 plus ran a heat in the 5. In the final, he's on world record pace, falls down, loses 50 yards but within a lap is once again leading the field. The last mile is done around 4 min. and he still runs near a 50 second last lap. The previous races, the fall and the world record pace, had no affect on him. That's just not possible without drugs.

    Open your eyes.

  • John, You need to learn about the events. The 10 was the FIRST event. He didn't "lose 50 yds", he was barely behind the last runner in the pack. The pace then SLOWED. Ask Frank. Most everybody at that level can hammer close to 4 for the mile. and hos last 400 was 55, a far cry from the 50 seconds you said. It is a shame that you choose to damage fine performances without anything to verify it.

  • PRE did not do drugs, it's so pathetic that you guys think the only way you can be a good runner is by doing drugs well bull!! the runners know better than to do drugs and they didn't!!

  • stageberg now teaches economics at my college.

  • This was a 3-Mile race, not 5,000 meters.

  • thats the same thing. a 5k is three miles

  • By the way, I think that if you click on my name by the text then you should get up another video I put up of a high school runner. That video is much better than a comparative one that was put up because mine has the official announcers narration.

  • that's actually the last 400m of the race

  • That's true but I didn't make the video and I don't have time to edit it.

  • This was his sophomore year, not freshman.

  • OK, I changed it.

  • Alright, thanks. I was just reading a biography on Pre and noticed that.

  • It still says freshman in the info...

  • it's funny, every time someone fucks something up, they go on Oprah because if Oprah's on your side, you're safe: people follow Oprah like if she were a prophet or something. She's a nice lady but she manipulates people sometimes...

  • shes not even that nice of a lady pal.

  • definitively yes!! He inspired me to run!

  • too bad that some athletes dope themselves: they forget why they started running: for the love of the sport. Indeed, we all think about honor, medals...but this is material. I run because it makes me feel happy and I see constant improvement. I feel I'm building something: confidence and health. I always win because I run for the right reason.

  • Yeah, you should have seen Marion Jones on Oprah last week. She is the biggest lying SCUMBAG you can imagine. She said she thought her coach was injecting her with Flaxseed Oil. How stupid does she think we are? Too bad I wasn't interviewing her. Since when do people inject flaxseed oil. She's a complete idiot.

  • She's insulting our intelligence, stupid bitch. or she could be inbred too, lol. I know what you mean: "Oh, I didn't know it was illegal..." lol Anyway, she's going to get what's coming to her: with time, she'll lose respect.

  • I find it very curious that there were no Finnish distance runners at the Beijing Olympics. In fact, I haven't heard of good Finnish distance runners since those who were caught doping in 1984. Very curious indeed. Every Olympics since 1972 Finland had great distance runners then when testing gets tougher, no more great Finnish runners at all. Not one. They just completely disappeared.