Catholics can and do veneration and ask for the intercession of Old Testament saints, Judaism has had division over the invokation of saints, there is even one Jewish text that calls on the intercession of Samuel, the bible even has the people asking Samuel to intercede while he was alive. Honoring of leaders and saints occurred in the OT: "they...prostrated themselves before him [Elijah] to the ground.(2king2:15), this was also done to David & others. Jews see Joshua 5:14 as honoring Michael
I may not be the smartest student in the class...but I know better than to try to tell Daniel Wallace that I know more about Greek Grammar than he does... :)
Please tell me you are not trying to compare James White to Daniel Wallace. You are kidding me right? Daniel Wallace is a Greek master. James White--KNOWS Greek well
Censuring you? How about you CLICK--REFRESH. The comments take a while to appear sometimes sir. I have responded to all of your comments accordingly. I have about 5 more minutes so continue with the hate rants and the adoration of Mr. White.
Why would I want to? To teach strictly Calvinistic doctrines whenever something challenges my faith. I don't think so. In case you don't know my friend--his LATRIA and DULIA argument is D.O.A.
This is unfortunate. Maybe White should take lessons from Greek professors so he can try and tame his bias a bit
I envy Mr. White! He gets to teach at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary! Oh man...I envy him. I wish I could teach Greek and Hebrew at that DISTINGUISHED seminary. I guess I am just a loser in my mid 20's since I don't teach Greek there. I'm a low life. Sorry, got no credentials. Mr. White is a deity compared to my lowly self
Interesting, my comments indicating that this type of response is childish and immature and makes it hard to take one who will engage in this level of discourse seriously was removed. There was no vulgarity, no "calling you a homosexual," or any such thing. I pointed out the un-Christian nature of such comments, how that does not please the Lord, and that your confidence in the RCC position on praying to Mary and any dead saints should allow you to avoid such tactics. May it appear again.
Maybe you can go and leave insulting comments on your own channel. Don't waste my time here. I deal with SERIOUS apologetics here...SERIOUS apologetics. I don't have time for people that parrot James White..I deal with him as it is, why deal with his parrots? Don't waste my time, please.
I only have one question: "What color is the sky in your world, William?"
The world where what you've displayed is thought of as "sound argumentation"?
I cannot for the life of me, understand how you think that this is any sort of meaningful argumentation, or rebuttal of substance to what I heard on the DL.
Actually I have a 20 page rebuttal already done as well as a video series to teach Mr. White a little lesson on the Greek words and how his sad Calvinistic religious system has blinded him. Hope you can tune in!
Sorry, William, your distinction has no difference. I "honor" my father and mother, I do not pray to them. I "honor" those who are in authority over me, but I do not ask them to serve as a mediator between me and God. And I "honor" the brethren in Christ, but I do not look to them as sinless co-redemptrix.
I listened to the DL to which you are responding. You were muted and hung up on because you were talking over the host of the show, which all radio hosts do in light of such behavior.
Actually there IS a difference. There are two different Greek words. In case you have no grasp of the biblical languages, a 20 page paper I wrote detailing the differences and the errors of Mr. White is due out within days, I hope yuo can read it. I believe you should read up on the issues you are commenting on, it seems you don't understand what we're even speaking about.
I do understand the argument. I have listened to the entire Madrid debate where the subject was discussed. I reiterate, you are attempting to make a distinction without a difference. As you can see by comments about "honor," I am responding to your argument in this video, whereby you claim the distinction is "honor" vs. "worship." If you simply want to be dismissive, so be it, but I see obfuscation of the issue with this "latria" vs. "dulia" distinction attempt to explain away idolatry.
there was one part of this debate that I found particularly unfair. At one point you said "We do not communicate with Mary..." James White completely cut you off, and when you tried to explain that you had not finished your sentence he muted you and told you to behave (very condescendingly I might add)At that point it was clear that you were being mistreated.
Ahhh..tantamount to someone rebuking Paul for asking his fellow brethren to pray for him. That's how relevant your argument is. And ONCE more, I told you I do NOT HAVE TIME for combox arguments. If you insist on NOT BEING ABLE to understand that if you have an issue you SHOULD SEND IT TO MY INBOX---then I'll be forced to ban you. It's not hard to understand(then again you STILL don't get the Latria/Dulia issue..oh man )
Sorry buddy, you seemingly just don't get it do you? Send me your petty arguments in a message box. You seemingly can't interact here and are beating yourself up with your own fists. It's gotten ugly. You don't understand James and his argument or my rebuttal in anyway whatsoever. You also don't get that NO GREEK theologian, Father, Lexicon, Dictionary, or ANYTHING of the sort would agree with White's funny assertion. Sorry.
Obviously you aren't since you STILL haven't touched upon the refutation I've made of James. All you keep saying is--I know Koine--I know Koine-I know Greek---I can read Greek. Good for you! You still obviously can't read enough of it or UNDERSTAND it to understand a fallacious silly argument when you see it. I am done food fighting in the comboxes. Got something to say? Send it to me in a message. GOD BLESS
I figured my 3 part response would sink in...evidently NOT. And if you are familiar with Koine Greek then you SHOULD know that such an argument is fallacious. ANY TWO year student of Greek would see the potholes and silliness in his argument. The passage in usage was Acts 7:7--please do NOT misuse it and UNDERSTAND why I used it. And..I ASK Mary to do certain things? Really? Wow...funny. I'd say your assertions and comments are silly and merit no serious response. Study the issue further
This is an incoherent argument that White's followers swallow up without seemingly understanding that in the Greek it simply doesn't match up. This is a shameful argument for a person who knows Greek to use. NO GREEK PROFESSOR, no GREEK LEXICON, no GREEK speaking Theologian, no GREEK SPEAKING Church Father ever supported or supports this illogical argument. Posit such statements to a Greek theologian and sit back as they laugh at you. It's silliness at it's best. It's AOMIN at it's best
He proves that the passage will NOT hold up because DULIA is not used in his form of a RELIGIOUS context. It's a strawman argument cause in order for it to hold water in HIS EYES it must be shown that DULIA is in a WORSHIP format. That is the ONLY RELIGIOUS context White is speaking of. This is absurd because the Catholic contention is that DULIA's usage is in service to a created being and NOT when it's usage can be paralleled with that of LATRIA.
You seemingly STILL don't get it. I understand that White admits they are two different words. But what I reject, is that DULIA has a sort of sense that you can say--"Ohhhh you can give Dulia to a mere human, but if you give DULIA to Mary it's in a religious context! Where is that shown in the BIBLE?!"
Yet I give Mr. White an example and he PROVES my point.
If you guys wish to WORSHIP Mr. White--leave me VULGAR comments cause of my DL appearance or call me names that insinuate that I am a homosexual, I will simply remove the comments. To be honest, I do NOT have time to keep up with all the COMBOX insults you guys like to levy. Want to cuss me out? Then send it on over to me message box. I'll sit back, grab a cup of coffee and read 'em one day. Til then, please---stop being so hateful. Be an example to your fellow brethren.
It doesn't mesh with reality? The fact that LATRIA and DULIA are DIFFERENT WORDS do not match with reality.I am not a big fan of combox debating, if you want to converse over this, drop me a message line, or you can wait for my video that will detail how the words are VERY different and how White's argument is silly. By the way, the software I use---isn't as if I need a MANUAL TO USE. I own all the books as well, and I am still waiting for that Lexicon that agrees with Mr. White-it doesn't exist
Your mere comment shows the type of scholarship that impresses you. You sure must be a sola scripturist. That type of logic is laughable. The mere fact that spaceships didn't exist back then show the idiotic nature of your argument.
The fact that I CAN SHOW DULIA and LATRIA were DIFFERENT WORDS suffices. The fact that no one believes White's laughable assertion, not even Lexicons that are made by people who are FAR more advanced in Greek than White and I combined says enough. Bye bye
Actually the point was that your argument is from silence when you ask someone to prove a negative.
"I CAN SHOW DULIA and LATRIA were DIFFERENT WORDS suffices."<---this argument also says nothing since no one has contended that they are the same words. The point was that they are derived from the same word in Hebrew as you agreed and when used in a religious context there is no such distinction as to the meaning of worship.
That is the fallacious argument that NOT a SINGLE Greek LEXICON, Father, Professor, Dictionary or ANYTHING supports. It's silly. That was why I pointed out that certain passage, because in order for White's argument to hold water you'd have to use DULIA in a WORSHIP context in the definition parameters he's set up. It's silly. And you STILL do NOT GET IT. And once again, do me a favor and STOP commenting in the comboxes. Got a problem? Send it to my inbox.
He admitted the ONLY distinction I needed, since I reject his false comparison--and he was UNABLE to cite a single Greek Lexicon that supported his silly little argument. And he couldn't name a SINGLE Father that had issues with devotion towards Mary---CALVIN 1,600 years later doesn't count! Expect a video series on DULIA and LATRIA to come out soon so people can BETTER understand White's fallacious argument.
I didn't know my SOURCES? Sources to WHAT? I did answer the question, which is what my point was. The distinction White wanted is that that deals with WORSHIP and would make DULIA interchangeable with LATRIA, it's a STRAWMAN argument and it's SILLY. And yes, unfortunately, when I wanted to show my proof BIG BAD WHITE WOLF didn't wanna hear it. Unfortunately poor Mr. White admitted what I wanted all along.
Man enough with your petty arguments with Protestants. Were Both Christians and we need to stand up together and address secular humanism which is taking over are government our schools and our country. Your video's are a complete waste of time and outdated. Make videos addressing the real issue secular humanism.
I was Protestant for quite some time, I am Catholic now--I have been a part of the other side already. Thanks for the recommendation though. GOD BLESS
Hey Billy, do you communicate with Mary? In the sitting down sense or standing up sense? Do you speak to her? Prayer is speaking to Mary YET you stated " we do not communicate" we do not speak to Mary" Do you speak to her in a religious context?
Ahhh as I explained, we don't communicate in the sense that we speak to her and she speaks back to us. I was explaining that our prayer that we ask from Mary is not a radical fundamentalist misrepresentation such as yours. But oh well, I guess I will create some more accounts so that they can defend me. Cool!
What exactly does this mean? You would have to be using some other definition of prayer than what is commonly known as prayer for "we don't communicate in the sense that we speak to her and she speaks back to us" to make any sense at all. Of course, prayer is more commonly understood as speaking or acting in accordance with a prayer. What is the purpose of praying to any being if it is not to get an answer in some form, whether it be a word or words or an act on the behalf of the prayer?
Let me stop for one moment and explain to you in the simplest way I can..OK?
We do not PRAY to Mary as the chief source of our wantings. We ask her to PRAY FOR US as we ask ANY living Saint to do as well. Get it? Ok now...do you think us asking our living brethren to pray for us entails us receiving a RESPONSE from them?? We obviously expect them to PRAY for us and that is the same with Mary--her being closer to GOD than we currently are. Ok.
There really is not any Biblical evidence of dead saints in heaven acting as intercessors. I notice you say "chief source," so can I conclude that she is "a source," which is again lacking Biblical support? The scene in Revelation is shaky ground for a doctrine that there is a prayer request bowl in heaven catching our prayers and admininistered by saints. Plus, I do not believe that people are chanting repetitive prayers that hail Moses, or hail Elijah, or hail Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Like many Protestants, 8isenoughalready just doesn't understand. I honestly just don't get it though, why it's so hard for them to understand. i'm not telling them to believe as such, but at least aknowledge that we don't worship Mary or the saints. And still, they can't even do that.
Protestantism, while good is some ways, is so childish in so many others, even evil. In my experience, most believe the earth is 10,000 years old, and that raping a child is no different than stealing a pencil.
Hey Mr. Bill, I find it quite interesting that most here who have commented in a positive way who are supposedly not Romanists have just joined Youtube in the past day. Do you always make up Youtube names in order to support your own arguments or is this a new thing?
Ahhh so I am creating accounts now. Right. Considering I have gotten so many comments with vulgarities as well as people saying "YOU DID WELL BUT YOU ARE A MARY WORSHIPER STILL"
"Those" non romanists who said "you did well but are still worshiping Mary" cannot defend why they made such a statement. Thus why state that you did well but are still a Mary worshiper? Such statements are clearly contrived to make them appear to be Protestants. Not hard to see that. ;-)
and hey thanks for the link message! I listed to probably half of it and think that you did well. Latria and Dulia, kinda getting nitty gritty.. should have hit him over the head with his doctrine of OSAS or sola fide.
Actually I was put on mute...I could hear what was going on, then I was hung up on. Not crying about anything. I loved it! As far as my Calvin comment, James knows I was referring to Ignatius on that remark
do you realize how ridiculous the comment is that you said about John CAlvin "rejecting the early fathers"? Haven't you read how much Calvin quotes Augustine and Chrysostom in support of many of the Protestant positions or at the very least to argue against the Roman views of the times? That was REALLY ill informed on your part.
Maybe I am in error. I cannot prove otherwise--but for anyone that isn't a Whiteadorer, listen to the show. Does it sound like he ACCIDENTALLY hung up on me?
All I remember is speaking about ORIGEN, then hearing James say "Oops" and then all of a sudden I am cut off. I began to laugh at that. Oh well, it IS his show he can hang up whenever he likes. No sour feelings
We do not believe in scripture alone since Sacred Tradition produced the Scriptures and those scriptures themselves tell us to listen to oral tradition and that church is the pillar and foundation of truth. The second largest body of Christians (Orthodox) also hold to this belief. Rejecting the Apostolic Tradition goes against scripture and is a concept that began with Martin Luther. Also, one cannot accidently worship Mary, you have to will it and moving your upper body down does not do that.
Your DL contribution was interesting and enlightening, as I expected, but too short and became a little chaotic towards the end. I thought neither you nor Dr White really had a chance to explain yourselves fully, given time and other constraints. Maybe a written debate would make things clearer... but I can't see THAT happening!
You did get across the truth that Catholics do NOT worship Mary but only exalt her as being somewhat nearer to God than us on Earth.
Catholics can and do veneration and ask for the intercession of Old Testament saints, Judaism has had division over the invokation of saints, there is even one Jewish text that calls on the intercession of Samuel, the bible even has the people asking Samuel to intercede while he was alive. Honoring of leaders and saints occurred in the OT: "they...prostrated themselves before him [Elijah] to the ground.(2king2:15), this was also done to David & others. Jews see Joshua 5:14 as honoring Michael
theruteger 3 years ago
Is it just me, or is James White trying to extend Sola Scriptura, to the role of dictionary?
gorgonzolaaa 3 years ago
I may not be the smartest student in the class...but I know better than to try to tell Daniel Wallace that I know more about Greek Grammar than he does... :)
rpavich 3 years ago
Please tell me you are not trying to compare James White to Daniel Wallace. You are kidding me right? Daniel Wallace is a Greek master. James White--KNOWS Greek well
gnrhead 3 years ago
Thanks for the continuous Ad-Hominem and dodging my posts....
Can it get more clear?
rpavich 3 years ago
William,
At least let the comments stand on their own merit...or are you censuring me like you accuse James White of doing?
rpavich 3 years ago
Censuring you? How about you CLICK--REFRESH. The comments take a while to appear sometimes sir. I have responded to all of your comments accordingly. I have about 5 more minutes so continue with the hate rants and the adoration of Mr. White.
gnrhead 3 years ago
William,
Maybe after you're done teaching James White Greek...you could take over his Greek and Hebrew classes at the University where he's been teaching?
rpavich 3 years ago
Why would I want to? To teach strictly Calvinistic doctrines whenever something challenges my faith. I don't think so. In case you don't know my friend--his LATRIA and DULIA argument is D.O.A.
This is unfortunate. Maybe White should take lessons from Greek professors so he can try and tame his bias a bit
gnrhead 3 years ago
I envy Mr. White! He gets to teach at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary! Oh man...I envy him. I wish I could teach Greek and Hebrew at that DISTINGUISHED seminary. I guess I am just a loser in my mid 20's since I don't teach Greek there. I'm a low life. Sorry, got no credentials. Mr. White is a deity compared to my lowly self
gnrhead 3 years ago
Interesting, my comments indicating that this type of response is childish and immature and makes it hard to take one who will engage in this level of discourse seriously was removed. There was no vulgarity, no "calling you a homosexual," or any such thing. I pointed out the un-Christian nature of such comments, how that does not please the Lord, and that your confidence in the RCC position on praying to Mary and any dead saints should allow you to avoid such tactics. May it appear again.
8isenoughalready 3 years ago
Maybe you can go and leave insulting comments on your own channel. Don't waste my time here. I deal with SERIOUS apologetics here...SERIOUS apologetics. I don't have time for people that parrot James White..I deal with him as it is, why deal with his parrots? Don't waste my time, please.
gnrhead 3 years ago
Whew,
I finally slogged through this video.
I only have one question: "What color is the sky in your world, William?"
The world where what you've displayed is thought of as "sound argumentation"?
I cannot for the life of me, understand how you think that this is any sort of meaningful argumentation, or rebuttal of substance to what I heard on the DL.
rpavich 3 years ago
Actually I have a 20 page rebuttal already done as well as a video series to teach Mr. White a little lesson on the Greek words and how his sad Calvinistic religious system has blinded him. Hope you can tune in!
gnrhead 3 years ago
Sorry, William, your distinction has no difference. I "honor" my father and mother, I do not pray to them. I "honor" those who are in authority over me, but I do not ask them to serve as a mediator between me and God. And I "honor" the brethren in Christ, but I do not look to them as sinless co-redemptrix.
I listened to the DL to which you are responding. You were muted and hung up on because you were talking over the host of the show, which all radio hosts do in light of such behavior.
8isenoughalready 3 years ago
Actually there IS a difference. There are two different Greek words. In case you have no grasp of the biblical languages, a 20 page paper I wrote detailing the differences and the errors of Mr. White is due out within days, I hope yuo can read it. I believe you should read up on the issues you are commenting on, it seems you don't understand what we're even speaking about.
gnrhead 3 years ago
I do understand the argument. I have listened to the entire Madrid debate where the subject was discussed. I reiterate, you are attempting to make a distinction without a difference. As you can see by comments about "honor," I am responding to your argument in this video, whereby you claim the distinction is "honor" vs. "worship." If you simply want to be dismissive, so be it, but I see obfuscation of the issue with this "latria" vs. "dulia" distinction attempt to explain away idolatry.
8isenoughalready 3 years ago
there was one part of this debate that I found particularly unfair. At one point you said "We do not communicate with Mary..." James White completely cut you off, and when you tried to explain that you had not finished your sentence he muted you and told you to behave (very condescendingly I might add)At that point it was clear that you were being mistreated.
plk11 3 years ago
Ahhh..tantamount to someone rebuking Paul for asking his fellow brethren to pray for him. That's how relevant your argument is. And ONCE more, I told you I do NOT HAVE TIME for combox arguments. If you insist on NOT BEING ABLE to understand that if you have an issue you SHOULD SEND IT TO MY INBOX---then I'll be forced to ban you. It's not hard to understand(then again you STILL don't get the Latria/Dulia issue..oh man )
gnrhead 3 years ago
Sorry buddy, you seemingly just don't get it do you? Send me your petty arguments in a message box. You seemingly can't interact here and are beating yourself up with your own fists. It's gotten ugly. You don't understand James and his argument or my rebuttal in anyway whatsoever. You also don't get that NO GREEK theologian, Father, Lexicon, Dictionary, or ANYTHING of the sort would agree with White's funny assertion. Sorry.
gnrhead 3 years ago
Obviously you aren't since you STILL haven't touched upon the refutation I've made of James. All you keep saying is--I know Koine--I know Koine-I know Greek---I can read Greek. Good for you! You still obviously can't read enough of it or UNDERSTAND it to understand a fallacious silly argument when you see it. I am done food fighting in the comboxes. Got something to say? Send it to me in a message. GOD BLESS
gnrhead 3 years ago
I figured my 3 part response would sink in...evidently NOT. And if you are familiar with Koine Greek then you SHOULD know that such an argument is fallacious. ANY TWO year student of Greek would see the potholes and silliness in his argument. The passage in usage was Acts 7:7--please do NOT misuse it and UNDERSTAND why I used it. And..I ASK Mary to do certain things? Really? Wow...funny. I'd say your assertions and comments are silly and merit no serious response. Study the issue further
gnrhead 3 years ago
"And..I ASK Mary to do certain things? Really? Wow...funny."
Bill, do you ask Mary to do anything for you at all?
Arrsht 3 years ago
pt 3...
This is an incoherent argument that White's followers swallow up without seemingly understanding that in the Greek it simply doesn't match up. This is a shameful argument for a person who knows Greek to use. NO GREEK PROFESSOR, no GREEK LEXICON, no GREEK speaking Theologian, no GREEK SPEAKING Church Father ever supported or supports this illogical argument. Posit such statements to a Greek theologian and sit back as they laugh at you. It's silliness at it's best. It's AOMIN at it's best
gnrhead 3 years ago
pt 2...
He proves that the passage will NOT hold up because DULIA is not used in his form of a RELIGIOUS context. It's a strawman argument cause in order for it to hold water in HIS EYES it must be shown that DULIA is in a WORSHIP format. That is the ONLY RELIGIOUS context White is speaking of. This is absurd because the Catholic contention is that DULIA's usage is in service to a created being and NOT when it's usage can be paralleled with that of LATRIA.
gnrhead 3 years ago
You seemingly STILL don't get it. I understand that White admits they are two different words. But what I reject, is that DULIA has a sort of sense that you can say--"Ohhhh you can give Dulia to a mere human, but if you give DULIA to Mary it's in a religious context! Where is that shown in the BIBLE?!"
Yet I give Mr. White an example and he PROVES my point.
gnrhead 3 years ago
See, Now this Prot is REAL. Hehe Not contrived
Arrsht 3 years ago
If you guys wish to WORSHIP Mr. White--leave me VULGAR comments cause of my DL appearance or call me names that insinuate that I am a homosexual, I will simply remove the comments. To be honest, I do NOT have time to keep up with all the COMBOX insults you guys like to levy. Want to cuss me out? Then send it on over to me message box. I'll sit back, grab a cup of coffee and read 'em one day. Til then, please---stop being so hateful. Be an example to your fellow brethren.
GOD BLESS
gnrhead 3 years ago
It doesn't mesh with reality? The fact that LATRIA and DULIA are DIFFERENT WORDS do not match with reality.I am not a big fan of combox debating, if you want to converse over this, drop me a message line, or you can wait for my video that will detail how the words are VERY different and how White's argument is silly. By the way, the software I use---isn't as if I need a MANUAL TO USE. I own all the books as well, and I am still waiting for that Lexicon that agrees with Mr. White-it doesn't exist
gnrhead 3 years ago
Yeah billy, and while you are at it, prove from those same lexical sources that Jesus did not ride a spaceship.
Arrsht 3 years ago 3
Your mere comment shows the type of scholarship that impresses you. You sure must be a sola scripturist. That type of logic is laughable. The mere fact that spaceships didn't exist back then show the idiotic nature of your argument.
The fact that I CAN SHOW DULIA and LATRIA were DIFFERENT WORDS suffices. The fact that no one believes White's laughable assertion, not even Lexicons that are made by people who are FAR more advanced in Greek than White and I combined says enough. Bye bye
gnrhead 3 years ago
Actually the point was that your argument is from silence when you ask someone to prove a negative.
"I CAN SHOW DULIA and LATRIA were DIFFERENT WORDS suffices."<---this argument also says nothing since no one has contended that they are the same words. The point was that they are derived from the same word in Hebrew as you agreed and when used in a religious context there is no such distinction as to the meaning of worship.
Arrsht 3 years ago
That is the fallacious argument that NOT a SINGLE Greek LEXICON, Father, Professor, Dictionary or ANYTHING supports. It's silly. That was why I pointed out that certain passage, because in order for White's argument to hold water you'd have to use DULIA in a WORSHIP context in the definition parameters he's set up. It's silly. And you STILL do NOT GET IT. And once again, do me a favor and STOP commenting in the comboxes. Got a problem? Send it to my inbox.
gnrhead 3 years ago
He admitted the ONLY distinction I needed, since I reject his false comparison--and he was UNABLE to cite a single Greek Lexicon that supported his silly little argument. And he couldn't name a SINGLE Father that had issues with devotion towards Mary---CALVIN 1,600 years later doesn't count! Expect a video series on DULIA and LATRIA to come out soon so people can BETTER understand White's fallacious argument.
gnrhead 3 years ago
I didn't know my SOURCES? Sources to WHAT? I did answer the question, which is what my point was. The distinction White wanted is that that deals with WORSHIP and would make DULIA interchangeable with LATRIA, it's a STRAWMAN argument and it's SILLY. And yes, unfortunately, when I wanted to show my proof BIG BAD WHITE WOLF didn't wanna hear it. Unfortunately poor Mr. White admitted what I wanted all along.
gnrhead 3 years ago
Great job william
OneTrueChurch 3 years ago
Man enough with your petty arguments with Protestants. Were Both Christians and we need to stand up together and address secular humanism which is taking over are government our schools and our country. Your video's are a complete waste of time and outdated. Make videos addressing the real issue secular humanism.
DangeloM27 3 years ago
I was Protestant for quite some time, I am Catholic now--I have been a part of the other side already. Thanks for the recommendation though. GOD BLESS
gnrhead 3 years ago
Hey Billy, do you communicate with Mary? In the sitting down sense or standing up sense? Do you speak to her? Prayer is speaking to Mary YET you stated " we do not communicate" we do not speak to Mary" Do you speak to her in a religious context?
Arrsht 3 years ago
Ahhh as I explained, we don't communicate in the sense that we speak to her and she speaks back to us. I was explaining that our prayer that we ask from Mary is not a radical fundamentalist misrepresentation such as yours. But oh well, I guess I will create some more accounts so that they can defend me. Cool!
gnrhead 3 years ago
But you do attempt to communicate to her through prayers to her and thus it is a religious context as you bow and pray to her. Ave Maria.
Arrsht 3 years ago
What exactly does this mean? You would have to be using some other definition of prayer than what is commonly known as prayer for "we don't communicate in the sense that we speak to her and she speaks back to us" to make any sense at all. Of course, prayer is more commonly understood as speaking or acting in accordance with a prayer. What is the purpose of praying to any being if it is not to get an answer in some form, whether it be a word or words or an act on the behalf of the prayer?
8isenoughalready 3 years ago
Let me stop for one moment and explain to you in the simplest way I can..OK?
We do not PRAY to Mary as the chief source of our wantings. We ask her to PRAY FOR US as we ask ANY living Saint to do as well. Get it? Ok now...do you think us asking our living brethren to pray for us entails us receiving a RESPONSE from them?? We obviously expect them to PRAY for us and that is the same with Mary--her being closer to GOD than we currently are. Ok.
gnrhead 3 years ago
There really is not any Biblical evidence of dead saints in heaven acting as intercessors. I notice you say "chief source," so can I conclude that she is "a source," which is again lacking Biblical support? The scene in Revelation is shaky ground for a doctrine that there is a prayer request bowl in heaven catching our prayers and admininistered by saints. Plus, I do not believe that people are chanting repetitive prayers that hail Moses, or hail Elijah, or hail Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
8isenoughalready 3 years ago
you are right, there is NO passage that speaks of Dead Saints. That is the first thing you need to realize and you have. GOOD JOB!
gnrhead 3 years ago
Like many Protestants, 8isenoughalready just doesn't understand. I honestly just don't get it though, why it's so hard for them to understand. i'm not telling them to believe as such, but at least aknowledge that we don't worship Mary or the saints. And still, they can't even do that.
Protestantism, while good is some ways, is so childish in so many others, even evil. In my experience, most believe the earth is 10,000 years old, and that raping a child is no different than stealing a pencil.
Tanarros 3 years ago
Hey Mr. Bill, I find it quite interesting that most here who have commented in a positive way who are supposedly not Romanists have just joined Youtube in the past day. Do you always make up Youtube names in order to support your own arguments or is this a new thing?
Arrsht 3 years ago
Ahhh so I am creating accounts now. Right. Considering I have gotten so many comments with vulgarities as well as people saying "YOU DID WELL BUT YOU ARE A MARY WORSHIPER STILL"
Get real buddy
gnrhead 3 years ago
"Those" non romanists who said "you did well but are still worshiping Mary" cannot defend why they made such a statement. Thus why state that you did well but are still a Mary worshiper? Such statements are clearly contrived to make them appear to be Protestants. Not hard to see that. ;-)
Arrsht 3 years ago
Way To Go Handsome!! Keep up the good work!!
dsbassoon 3 years ago
and hey thanks for the link message! I listed to probably half of it and think that you did well. Latria and Dulia, kinda getting nitty gritty.. should have hit him over the head with his doctrine of OSAS or sola fide.
Theologica37 3 years ago
are you a texas tech fan?
Theologica37 3 years ago
such a conspiracy theorist..."he hung up on me!!!" wah wah wah
prchdaword 3 years ago
Actually I was put on mute...I could hear what was going on, then I was hung up on. Not crying about anything. I loved it! As far as my Calvin comment, James knows I was referring to Ignatius on that remark
gnrhead 3 years ago
do you realize how ridiculous the comment is that you said about John CAlvin "rejecting the early fathers"? Haven't you read how much Calvin quotes Augustine and Chrysostom in support of many of the Protestant positions or at the very least to argue against the Roman views of the times? That was REALLY ill informed on your part.
prchdaword 3 years ago
Hung up on you? Come on, William, that's ridiculous, and you know it is.
SoliDeoGloria76 3 years ago
Maybe I am in error. I cannot prove otherwise--but for anyone that isn't a Whiteadorer, listen to the show. Does it sound like he ACCIDENTALLY hung up on me?
All I remember is speaking about ORIGEN, then hearing James say "Oops" and then all of a sudden I am cut off. I began to laugh at that. Oh well, it IS his show he can hang up whenever he likes. No sour feelings
gnrhead 3 years ago
I will check out the show soon...hopefully tonight, if not tomorrow.
prchdaword 3 years ago
hey buddy if you could let me know where I can find the debate. peace be with you.
Catholic83 3 years ago
"I completely think that what you are explaining amounts to worship of Mary"
What in Mr. Bill's explanation on the DL caused you to conclude that his view amounts to Mary worship?
Arrsht 3 years ago 3
"IT all still amounts to marian worship"
Please prove how it amounts to worship of Mary rather than just assert it. On what basis do you come to that conclusion?
Arrsht 3 years ago 3
We do not believe in scripture alone since Sacred Tradition produced the Scriptures and those scriptures themselves tell us to listen to oral tradition and that church is the pillar and foundation of truth. The second largest body of Christians (Orthodox) also hold to this belief. Rejecting the Apostolic Tradition goes against scripture and is a concept that began with Martin Luther. Also, one cannot accidently worship Mary, you have to will it and moving your upper body down does not do that.
canman86 3 years ago
can you post a link or something? Did you debate James White? Please explain this sounds interesting.
Theologica37 3 years ago
Your DL contribution was interesting and enlightening, as I expected, but too short and became a little chaotic towards the end. I thought neither you nor Dr White really had a chance to explain yourselves fully, given time and other constraints. Maybe a written debate would make things clearer... but I can't see THAT happening!
You did get across the truth that Catholics do NOT worship Mary but only exalt her as being somewhat nearer to God than us on Earth.
curvalecce 3 years ago
don't ask him for a written debate...he's had my opening statement for a year and can't answer back =(
prchdaword 3 years ago