Karzai Wins Afghan Election, Ban Visits

[Starchildvixen]

Karzais Brother was CIA funded for 8 years! Wonder why they are in Afghan now, HMMMMM

[torak101]

Again, it's a NATO action. There are tens of thousands of EU troops there.

But, yes withdraw is not really an option that's why no one is really talking about it.

[Chromegrillz]

This election is big fraud, unfair for the candidate.

[xmnvbvgzfgvbmghxvbds]

i think america's turn is almost up. whose turn is it next? i think it's russia's turn again. russia you're up, don't fuck it up this time.

[lenny380]

love how the AP didn't interview ANY Afghan people about the election.

[xmnvbvgzfgvbmghxvbds]

it's because they don't actually have the balls to go to afghanistan. probably, i don't know...

[bander678]

lokmjk

[wideawake123]

Wait...it gets worse! US negotiators maded an offer to the Taliban leadership through Mullah Wakil Ahmed Mutawakkil (former Taliban foreign minister) that if they accept the presence of NATO troops in Afghanistan, they would be given the governorship of six provinces in the south and northeast. What this means is Obama is selling us out. That's why he's delaying the troop surge, because he's making a deal w/the Taliban. They aren't buying though, it seems they want All of Afghanistan.

[EmeterioBetances]

Yeah but this is not new because the CIA has had Karzai brother on the pay roll. And he's his brother has links to the opium trade. Big Buisness the our gov't to make a peace pack with the taliban and colombia,

[wideawake123]

The CIA has links with everyone so what? Shah Massoud(The lion of Panshir)was our 1st choice but Qaeda killed him. Then our 2nd choice got killed too...Karzai is choice 3 and acceptable considering the alternative. That our Govt. is still getting punked after the March punking tells me theyre clueless. According to the Taliban(carve this in stone)

1. "There is no such thing as "moderate Taliban" we are unified in our belief."

2. The Taliban will accept nothing but total victory in Afganistan.

[A86]

You don't think that's pretty screwed up that the CIA has had a direct or indirect hand in creating a lot of terrorist groups and "banana republic" dictatorships over the years? If an agency of any other country did that we'd be calling them a terrorist state.

[wideawake123]

The question is: What do You think? That agencies of other nations are involved all over the world is a matter of fact.The ISI help create the Taliban to use against India. If you believe it's only messed up when the CIA does it, let me tell you there are secret govt. agency operatives from scores of nations operating in foreign countries all over the world as we speak. The Muslim Brotherhood is the root from which nearly every Sunni Terror group springs, and they aren't even a government.

[A86]

It's messed up when anyone does it. What I'm saying is that the US shouldn't judge other nations if it's going to engage in the same crappy behavior as them. The old saying about not throwing stones in a glass house.

[wideawake123]

Allegation doesnt constitute fact. Also, in a country where nearly 100% of it's export consists of heroin, what are the odds of interacting with someone who Isnt involved in the drug trade...hmmn? The endeavor is difficult enough without Abdullah rat-fucking the process. There's far more at stake here than those petty accusations you leveled. Geopolitically speaking your comments are superfluous and distracting. The question is What will Obama do now as far as troops goes. "What"...not "Why".

[A86]

It's not allegation, it's a pretty widely known fact. If you check out most right-wing dictatorships of the Cold War the CIA either directly trained the members of the government or junta or at least funded them or funded proxy elements of them.

"Geopolitically speaking"

In other words you want the US to maintain a hegemony in the region. Not only is that illegal it's a huge fucking waste of money and benefits no one but military contractors, drug cartels and oil companies.

[wideawake123]

Belaboring the obvious does..? "...most right-wing dictatorships of the Cold War..." had CIA involvement(duh) Most left-wing dictatorships had KGB involvement. You dont have a point and its annoying. Right now a group of fundamentalist Islamic militants with Kalishnikovs are slaughtering people and we made the decision to stop them. Now we have to back up our original actions which hasn't a damned thing to do with "the CIA" and "right-wing huntas"...it's a global war being fought in 1 country.

[A86]

"Most left-wing dictatorships had KGB involvement"

And? Two wrongs justify a right? The Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore, the US still does.

As for Islamic fundies there are Christian fundies in other countries killing people and there are all sorts of other political groups killing other people all around the world. There's always going to be someone killing someone. The US isn't a world police force, nor do we have the right to be. That's why countries have their own governments.

[A86]

"our original actions"

If you haven't been paying attention the US government hasn't been trying very hard to destroy the Taliban. The Taliban completely re-situated itself in 2007 and by 2008 was stronger than it was in 2001.

original (dot) antiwar (dot) com / justin / 2009 / 10 / 29 / karzai - as - diem /

[A86]

Some of these problems biting us in the ass right now are consequences of actions the CIA took during the Cold War in the region to establish a hegemon. Our government funded Saddam Hussein and supplied him with weapons and look how that turned out. Same with our government creating the predecessor of the Taliban.

Notice how these kinds of things always end up destroying countries in the end historically?

[wideawake123]

You just dont get it...do you. Fuck your CIA bullshit stories...ok? Suck on the KGB...OK? The question now(not fucking CIA-yesterday-heroin-wasting space on the thread) is: What Now? ...Not "Why then". I don't give a flying fuck about your geopolitical tirades about how we should be better than them or any other thing... We are fighting a global ideological war in the confines of a single country, and it isn't "America against the world", it's Islamic Fundamentalism against the world, Dipshit.

[A86]

You mean the "bullshit" stories the US government itself corroborates? Lol.

"geopolitical tirades about how we should be better"

Then don't criticize other governments.

Anyway you should care, that's why the US isn't getting international support for this war and that's why the US isn't winning. The truth is most people in Afghanistan DO NOT WANT the US there and will continue to be tolerant of anti-US forces as they have come to see us an occupational force. It's a war that can't be won.

[wideawake123]

You really are stupid...I just figured it out. How does NATO, German, British, Canadian, Italian, Japanese, Polish, French, Australian...etc troops in Afganistan Not constitute international support, Dingleberry? It's apparent that you are looking for an argument, and nothing more. I asked pointed questions - you antagonized. "What does Obama plan to do Now?"-Me vs "nobody likes America"-You. You are an Ape who get's his POV issued to him by "The Nation" or MSNBC.

We're done here Olberman.

[A86]

NATO is very reluctant to support us. They've been relying mostly on paying off Taliban warlords:

original (dot) antiwar (dot) com / porter / 2009 / 10 / 29 / us - nato - forces - rely - on - afghan -warlords - for - security /

Terrible strategy.

Like I said you don't know what you're talking about. You can find the same sentiments from Richard Clarke and George Will (who is super conservative). "Winning" (whatever that means) in the region is not feasible.

[A86]

(dot) washingtonpost (dot) com / wp - dyn / content / article / 2009 / 08 / 31 / AR2009083102912 (dot) html

"U.S. forces are being increased by 21,000, to 68,000, bringing the coalition total to 110,000. About 9,000 are from Britain, where support for the war is waning. Counterinsurgency theory...required to protect the population indicates that, nationwide, Afghanistan would need hundreds of thousands of coalition troops, perhaps for a decade or more. That is inconceivable."

[A86]

"it's Islamic Fundamentalism against the world"

Really? The US government seemed pretty tolerant of them in the 70s and 80s. Why the concern about them now? We went along with the Mujahideen which was an Islamic Fundamentalist force. US occupation in the region is helping Islamic Fundamentalism, not quelling it.

Typical Neocon. All anger and force and no rational answers. Just impotent force that never goes anywhere.

[torak101]

I think you really don't understand whats a stake here. I agree with the other poster on the past.

The point is right now.

Right now they want to kill us and that includes you.

Feel free to make a trip over there. The Afgan people are fine people, but the country is full wahhadist who have grown up with no other thinking aside from destroying any non-wahhadi.

[A86]

What's at stake? Thousands of lives and the US economy. The War is the biggest contributor to the deficit.

"Right now they want to kill us"

Yes, because we won't leave. There were less of the bad guys before we showed up and stayed there. Coincidence? I think not. The Afghan people are fine but they're making it clear they don't want us there anymore. And that's not just the Wahabbis, most of the ordinary people feel the same way. Hence their apparent tolerance of these terrorists.

[wideawake123]

@A86 and thats why Alqaeda attacked us on 9/11...because we wouldnt leave Iraq and Afghanistan. Your BS assertion that the Afghan people dont want us there is contrary to every interview I have seen from Afghanistan. I'm sure AlJazeera's agenda marches in lockstep with America right? Was that going to be your next comment? Of Course the Afghans want us there...They're scared shitless of the Taliban. They cooperate with them because they are terrified of what will happen if they dont!

[A86]

There will always be people who want to kill us. Always have been always will be. That doesn't mean we need to be forever at war with some nameless enemy overseas like the citizens of Oceania in the book "1984". This is what the UN and NATO are for and what sovereign nation-state governments and militaries of other countries are for.

I'm not going to live my life in a perpetual state of fear because a few nutjobs are out there.

[wideawake123]

Did Lashkar e Toiba attack Mumbai last Nov. because of Afghanistan? Were the Bali nightclub bombings in response to Iraq? How about Beslan? Why dont you shut up and let the grownups talk for a while? You think the Taliban is blowing up Afghanis because We're there?! You think us leaving Afghanistan ends this?! You think if we evicted the Jews from Israel and gave it to the Arabs this Jihad ends?! It doesnt end til theres a worldwide Islamic Caliphate...didnt you get the memo?

Wake up Asshole!

[A86]

Terrorism has been happening for hundreds of years. It's nothing new and it happens all over the world. That doesn't justify a continued war in Afghanistan. That's why the UN, NATO and the governments of other countries exist. The US can easily work with them to have this problem taken care of instead of having more multi-trillion dollar several year wars that don't do shit.

I think I'll listen to grownups like Richard Clarke and George Will over simple-minded Neocons like you.

[A86]

"You think us leaving Afghanistan ends this?!"

No, but I'm not going to wet my bed over the existence of some college dropouts and religious fuckups who have a 95% failure rate (according to the CIA itself). These idiots can be taken out by the Green Berets or the Navy SEALs. Then we work with the governments of the Islamic countries to form close allied bonds with them.

The chances of a worldwide 'Islamic Caliphate' occurring are extremely slim.

[A86]

If none of this means anything to you (I have a feeling it doesn't) if nothing else you should know that most top US military experts believe an extended war in Afghanistan is a folly that will never come to fruition.

The Taliban an al-Qaeda are not conventional armies and they're not a nation. They can't be fought like one. We're basically fighting against an idea. You fight an idea through political connections and diplomacy.

[wideawake123]

Since you continue to downvote my replies from your sock profiles this will be my last comment.

"95% failure rate"?

"slim chance"?

5% success rate has translated to over 14,000 Deadly Jihad Attacks since 9/11 and over 1 million dead in various conflicts and Islamic genocides worldwide(that's 9 years). Is Islam getting better or worse at this? You hide your head in the sand here while the grownups discuss their latest Deadly Jihad Attack @ Ft. Hood. BTW, "Close Alliance" means Dhimmitude.

[A86]

1) I don't have a sock.

2) I only voted a couple of times.

3) Please send a link which shows that there have been 14,000 terrorist attacks since 9/11 and that they led to the deaths of 1 million people. The vast majority of the 1 million people who died in Iraq died since 2003, mostly during the bombings.

4) Out over a billion Muslims in the world (most of whom are not in the Middle East) there are 10,000-20,000 terrorists at most. And Muslim terrorists aren't the only type in the world.

[wideawake123]

The count as of 10/30....(drumroll please)....14,340 Deadly Islamic Jihad Attacks since 9/11/01!...(Now Paul Schaffer plays Letterman onto the stage while the studio audience claps).

The tally includes Sudanese, Algerian, Sub Saharan, Somalia, Balkans India...etc, as well as the Jihad against Mushrikun, and Kufr who account for Dozens daily. Please try to Prove me wrong keeping in mind...I employ hard data. Bing THERELIGIONOFPEACE

Week ending 10/30 32 Jihad Attacks - 348 dead - 801 wounded.

[A86]

1) Where is your source? I'm still waiting.

2) I'm not the only person here. Other people are voting you down.

3) The antiwar website is owned and created by Justin Raimondo you moron. Justin is a capitalist libertarian. He's an antiwar conservative. He didn't make up the number of Iraqis dead, it's been confirmed for quite a while.

4) I'm still waiting for a source which confirms these silly numbers.

[wideawake123]

@A86 listen you dumb fucking troll. The debate has moved. It seems that the peace(well pieces made by Islam) has again showered the US with the blessings from Allah...this time in Ft. Hood. So downvote my comment like the stupid, uninformed, lying ass bitchmade fool that you are, and have a nice day. The latest figures on the Jihad are available as I said at "thereligionofpeace" website including the counter. Everything you said is a lie and the proof is bleeding all over the world. GOODBYE

[A86]

"dumb fucking troll"

Says the idiot who starts calling names when he can't prove a point. You're the one who started getting nasty in the first place.

Ft. Hood wasn't a terrorist attack. No discernible political or religious motivations have been discovered so far. It seems the guy was a shell-shocked soldier who snapped when he found out he had to return to Afghanistan.

I'm still waiting for sources that report 1,000 people a week or whatever are being killed by terrorists.

[wideawake123]

"Allah Hu Akbar" was his confession you dope4. He didn't jump on a desk and say "You bastards"...he said the exact same thing every other Jihadist says before he slits a throat, or pulls a pin..."Allah Hu Akbar" was his motivation you child.

[A86]

According to whom did he say this?

[wideawake123]

According to the people he was shooting bullets into. The witnesses and victims in his attack you tool. Now it comes out that he attended mosque with at least 2 of the 9/11 Islamic Holy Murderers, and attempted to contact Al Qaeda. He was already under investigation! This ghoul's file just keeps getting thicker. Are you sure you want to continue to hitch your wagon of stupidity to Wikipedia, and throatslitters like Nidal Malik? BTW, Exactly who do you think you're fooling with your stories?

[A86]

That's a conspiracy theory, no legitimate sources have confirmed this rumor.

While you're talking about "fooling" people you haven't quoted a single source to prove your claims.

[wideawake123]

So now eyewitness accounts by the victims themselves equate to "Conspiricy Theories"!?! You need to get the fuck outta here dude.

I have done nothing BUT quote, and give references and search parameters for my sources. This conversation is over, do you understand? You have the stones to quote wikipedia as your source? I went over and edited the whole page just for laughs! You're a twit, and a troll. As I said, you're fooling noone. The Truth Will Out! This conversation is over. Goodbye!

[A86]

So far only one person claims he said "Allahu Ackbar!" which doesn't really prove anything because it's something all/most Muslims say. It's like when serial shooters from Christian backgrounds say "God be with me" or "God forgive me" or "Amen" before committing their crime. It doesn't mean they're religious extremists in either case or that their crime is religiously motivated.

All reports are reporting the soldier was shell-shocked and didn't want to go back to Afghanistan.

[wideawake123]

I know I said "This conversation is over..." but this is the most hilarious comment I've ever seen. "Christian serial killers" saying "God be with me" before their crimes...That's priceless...really. So "all reports are that he was shellshocked and didn't want to go Back to Afghanistan."...HE NEVER WENT TO AFGHANISTAN IN THE 1ST PLACE IDIOT! As for that "one person" claiming he said Allah akbar, apparently he/she is all over every news page...Multiple Witnesses. Now this conversation is over.

[A86]

"That's priceless"

home (dot) comcast (dot) net / ~ pobrien48 / serial _ killers (dot) htm

American serial killers often have Christian themes and quote Biblical verses.

What reports say he was never deployed? He was a fucking Major, obviously he's seen some action. No sources say that would have been his first war tour.

[wideawake123]

@A86 will you please 1st watch a few diffent news stories or maybe...I dont know go talk to someone...HE WAS NEVER DEPLOYED OVERSEAS IN HIS LIFE! I don't give a fuck what you think, or if you found the cure for cancer...Don't relay it to me in a reply. I blocked you and I want you to leave me alone now. Every single solitary news agency on the planet says he was never deployed. His fucking Family say he was never deployed! He is by his own admissions an Islamic Jihadist "protecting Muslims"..

[A86]

I already sent you a PM about the event.

"I blocked you"

Because you are losing the argument. It's obvious because you can't do anything but launch personal attacks when you can't defend your position. You're taking the typical coward's way out.

Stop wasting my time.

[wideawake123]

"He who fights that Islam should be superior fights in Allah's cause"

That was Nidal Hasan's "motivation" as he confessed when he shouted "Allah hu Akbar" (Allah is Superior)

[wideawake123]

...Also...Gee, you "only voted a few times"?... I guess I missed the part where they explained it to commentators that you were supposed to downvote someone with whom you engaged in discussion, to make it seem like you where "winning". With that in mind, I wish we were having this talk in person so I could punch you in the face before each of my replies...think about that for a minute you insufferable tool. I guess there IS a substitute for intelligence and it only takes a mouseclick.

[wideawake123]

Now to your screwed up statistics:

1) @ IRAQIBODYCOUNTDOTORG (a left-wing anti-war website) as of Mon. 11/02/09 is:102,330(high estimate) the Vast Majority of which are due to Islamic Jihad on other Arabs.The Jihadis were killing over 1000 Arabs a week for a while there.

2) The actual estimates(not your BS 10-20K) is closer to that x10. As for Muslims who support the Jihad the number is much higher (10-20% worldwide!)

99% of terrorists worldwide according to Moderate Muslims are Muslims.

[A86]

en (dot) wikipedia (dot) org / wiki / Casualties _ of _ the _ Iraq _ War

There is no source in the world (except maybe Fox News) claiming only 10,000 casualties due to the Iraq War.

"99% of terrorists worldwide according to Moderate Muslims are Muslims"

Citation please.

[A86]

"The finding confirmed a Sept. 8 McClatchy Newspapers report that U.S. officials excluded scores of people killed in car bombings and mortar attacks from tabulations measuring the results of a drive to reduce violence in Baghdad."

Most of these death tallies don't include the number of people killed by terrorist bombings and mortars. Most of the death tallies are people killed during US/British bombings and raids.

[BlueTunisia]

The president of Afghanistan is an ASIAN??? WTF??

[episodeIII]

LOL

[HK379]

This is so funny ....

look at those people  pretending that , any of this actually metters ...

[JusticeSelfEsteem4al]

Obama said he will decide after the "democratic" elections in Afghanistan whether to send more troops or not. Abdullah sent a clear message. US GET OUT FROM AFGHANISTAN

[10601a]

Looks like the payola is flowing again! We can come back in a few years and tear down his statue. Then we can bail out yet another third world country instead of taking care of our own!

God save are troops!

[yangtzscat]

American morons.

[petnousi]

Amazing how Afghan elites can play the West -

The tail is wagging the dog for sure...

[wideawake123]

Abdullah's move was treacherous and gives the Obama administration another "out". The whole pretext for not coming to a decision about troop requests by his hand-picked field commander was the legitimacy of the Karzai govt. This outcome changes nothing. I'm guessing Obama("I have(had) a plan for Afghanistan) will continue to waffle using this as an excuse to dangle US troops and embolden the Taliban. Our military goal independant of the Afghan Govt must be the elimination of the Taliban.

[ubuibiok]

For a 107 year old, maybe that explains your short term memory loss.... one word, "Vietnam"

[jxsilicon9]

Congratulations dictator Karzai on your most democratic win.

[baboonsquadron]

neocons wins Afghan Election...

THIS IS ALSO A SHAME

[ubuibiok]

Bring all US Troops Home, NOW

[torak101]

Why?

Would you prefer fighting off terrorist attacks in the streets of our own cities?

[A86]

There are more terrorists now than there were in 2001. Terrorist attacks since 2001 have gone up several hundred percent. Apparently our current foreign policy isn't working. It's just pissing away human life, effort and trillions of dollars and deepening our deficit and foreign debt.

[torak101]

@A86

First, Afgan is a NATO action, not strictly US.

Second, running away from MORE of the enemy seems to be a rather ineffective option.

It would actually encourage them. We would be put on the defense on our own soil and that would include the EU also.

I've been to both Afgan and Iraq. Yes, it's a mess and no, there is no easy fix. You have no idea how fast this could spread to your backyard.

[A86]

And staying there doesn't reduce the number of terrorists because then we are seen as an occupying force.

Think about it: if China illegally invaded the US because some American terrorist blew up a building in China how would you feel if Chinese troops destroyed the American government supposedly "for our own good" and sent in troops to occupy American neighborhoods? After all the thousands of innocent US casualties would you welcome them as "liberators" or join domestic resistance groups?

[torak101]

vast difference. Taliban where never recog as the legit government. They openly harbored al-qada.

The US / China have to much vested in one another economically. The US would help hunt down American terrorist.

The US is part of NATO, an attack on one is an attack on all. Hence NATO in afgan. You are also pitting China against the largest military complex in the world.

Like I said, there is NO easy fix to this.

Never forget we didn't start this.

[A86]

"we didn't start this"

We actually created the Taliban in a sense. The Taliban was started by some of the original members of the Mujahideen group that we started to counter the Soviets. We gave them training and funding and even now we've been paying off the Taliban for years and certain contractors have profited from their opium trade. The US government isn't an innocent bystander in all this either. This group didn't pop up out of nowhere.

[torak101]

true,

That's gratitude for you. :)

They are wahhabi, what else do you expect?

Anyway, you have your view, I have mine. I've been there. Pray mine doesn't come true.

[A86]

Some are but some are angry teenagers and college dropouts who either blame the West for the problems in their society and our occupation is a convenient excuse or they are family members of people who were killed in the war and now they're "getting revenge" by becoming terrorists.

[A86]

You have to put yourself in their shoes to understand why a continuing US presence wouldn't deter terrorism but actually help to increase it. Or at least increase public tolerance of it in the country.

The situation would be much better served if the US pulled out (the NVA didn't follow us home after we pulled out of Vietnam, not like they or the Taliban could) and worked with their government and the UN in building a national Afghan military to take out their own terrorists.