Topics: WINNING ARGUMENTS FOR CREATIONISM-EVOLUTIONISM DEBATE (See Subchapter 10.2.2, Chapter 10, of Part Two.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balancedway.yolasite.com
balancedway1.yolasite.com
See Announcements at announcements-balancedway.weebly.com
The whole situation is a gigantic cluster. First things to be aware of: religion and God are NOT the same thing.
Religion is its true, uncontaminated form and function is setup for man as a sort of operating system designed to facilitate spiritual maturity and eventually, full enlightenment, liberation, self-realization, etc.
Religion and science ought to go together. Anyone who tries to divorce either from the other, is working in vain and will only mislead himself and others.
@parkerjwill Yes religion and god are different. While religions are the social institutions designed to propagate the idea of god as being a reality, "God", is just the idea being propagated. As far as science and religion having to go together....where to start. Science is unbiased questioning about the natural processes of life. Every religion has some presupposed notion about reality and claim it as truth. They simply cannot go hand in hand. Those who say they must are "working in vain..."
Science may strive for an ideal of absolute objectivity but even if such a standard is actually demonstrated, the scientists are still using imperfect equipment in their attempts to reveal or discover Truth. Thus, the data they mull over is incomplete. Atheists must recognize the limited capacity of their minds ability to uncover the mysteries of life. This reality of the limitations of the scientific method are self-evident by the massive problems the world is facing.
@parkerjwill First of all why are imperfect machines a good argument against science? Perfection is an opinion and completely subjective. You could use that argument for anything. If im dying and the use of a defibrillator saves my life, im not going to wonder whether or not the machine and the research backing it was perfect, because it is a reality that it couldn't possibly be perfect.
@dawgpost90 You said, "Science is unbiased questioning.." I said, 'that may be', but the data they're basing their questions off is faulty because the instruments they're using are imperfect. God represents the Absolute Truth, perfect truth. So the method of trying to reveal the Absolute by methods which are inherently limited and imperfect is troublesome at best.
@parkerjwill Use all the religious jargon you want...You are demonstrating perfectly why science and religious thought can't coincide. Religious people always want to attack the proven and tested methods of science. Ironically none of your claims of god and the like have no evidence...what so ever...
@parkerjwill If im wrong then show me some evidence to back up your claims. Otherwise you are just spouting hot air. You cant be right...just because you are. If you want to make a claim then back it up.
Perfection is an opinion and completely subjective. Worth saying again...And please give a factual example of all this faulty data and faulty instruments...
@parkerjwill in order to believe that god is any kind of absolute you have to first define god........then you have to prove the god that your defining actually exists.......THEN you have to prove that this god is absolute......you yourself say that humans are inherently limited and imperfect.....if that's the case then we as humans could never have any real prove that any god exists.....you have no ground to say that something that you cant prove is absolute
@Xlivesforever God is the Absolute Truth. He's the universal ontological singularity, giving meaning and substance to everything. God is the Complete Whole, He's the sum total of everything that exists, even you. As far as proving God exists, that's your job, not mine. That's the task every human is provided an opportunity to accomplish. This human form of life is complete with the facilities to understand what is God, we have a sufficient degree of developed consciousness to ask such questions.
@Xlivesforever im not the one making the fucking claim here dont you get that.....i dont have to prove jack shit....your claiming there is a god.....you have to prove it. period
How could some of the scientists permit themselves to make a claim that would necessitate knowledge as extensive as the scheme of the universe, when their knowledge of the total scheme of being is *close* to zero, when confronted with a whole mass of unknowns concerning this very earth and tangible, lifeless matter, let alone the whole universe?
Do scientific discoveries and knowledge cause such a scientist to conclude that matter, *unknowing and unperceiving *, is his creator and that of all beings?
No?
Then how can the atheists and some of the scientists delude themselve and *believe* that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
@1tabligh What fools !! Why don't they just make something up... like a god or something did it! You are the one answering your questions with delusions.
@wondergundy Is it at all possible that the cells of the body should learn their functions, pursue their aim in a precise and orderly fashion, and crystallize so miraculously in the world of being, without there being a conscious and powerful being to instruct them?
Is it not rather the case that phenomena such as these prove and demonstrate, with the utmost emphasis, the need for a plan, a design, a guiding hand inspired by conscious will?
@1tabligh Have you looked in a microscope? Nature is infinitely small and large. we have not found the smallest thing or the largest thing. We are looking. We will discover more. Microscope or telescope... no inkling of gods. Because they are fictional concepts.
@wo...In just the same way that atheist regards matter as eternal, believers in God attribute eternity to God. Belief in an eternal being is then common to materialist and religious philosophers: both groups agree that there is a primary cause, but believers in God regard the primary cause as wise, all-knowing, and possessing the power of decision and will, whereas in the view of the materialists, the primary cause has neither consciousness, intelligence, perception, nor the power of decision.
@wondergundy Eternity means stability and immutability of essence, the impossibility of cessation, but matter/energy is in its essence a compendium of forces and potentialities; it is relativity itself, totally caught up in living and dying.
Thus, the removal of God in no way solves the problem posed by eternal being.
Moreover, matter is the locus for motion and change, and its motion is dynamic and situated within its own essence. Now, essential motion is incompatible with eternity, and matter and essential stability are two mutually exclusive categories that cannot be fused in a single locus.
@wondergundy Eternity is incompatible with the mode of being possessed by matter and the factors and attributes necessitated by its nature. The belief of those who have faith in God concerning a fixed and absolute principle relates to a being who in and of his nature can accept stability and absoluteness; his nature is completely devoid of and remote from the properties of matter.
@1tabligh There are these 2 things... "Matter", and what you keep trying to prop up... "Doesn't Matter". Eternity would be to a thinking person... A life of fulfilling experiences followed by an excruciatingly long existanse, after all your friends and everything you love is dead. Age is very tiring. Why are religious people so afraid of death?
@wondergundy The very nature of matter refuses permanence, eternity and continuity, for it can never separate itself from movement, relativity, and it stands in opposition to being a prime or absolute agent.
@1tabligh Proposing supernatural absolute agents, is what I am against, as they are fictitious. You just refuse to grasp the facts. What matters is here... what does not matter is in your head. You are supposed to break free of these dogmas. We have no evidence of things being eternal... everything we study evolves and changes... With the exception, it appears, of your closed mind.
@wondergundy All beings were originally non-beings; they were non-existent, and then they became existent. Deluded atheists wish to say that the energy/matter/universe/natural forces/ etc are eternal, but this notion is incorrect for the following reasons:
First, if the material energy/matter/universe/natural forces/ etc are eternal, it follows that an eternal being should be subject to change and cessation, which is impossible.
@1tabligh Atheists do not believe in gods... You Too, are an atheist. There are thousands of gods you do not believe in. Though you may... You don't seem to need valid reasons, in order to believe in things of this nature. My point is You are mixing up blasphemy, with better judgment.
@wondergundy "If you say that living beings emerge from living elements and inanimate beings from inanimate elements, we reply that an essence that lacks life in and of itself cannot be eternal and cannot be the source for life.
You too are a believer -- All deluded atheists are aware that many of the things known to us consist of matters and realities that we
@wondergundy Belief in the eternity of the energy/matter/universe/natural forces/ etc is held by those who deny the existence of a ruler and planner of creation, reject the messengers of God, regard the books they bring as the fables of the ancients, and **** concoct **** beliefs pleasing to themselves..
@1tabligh The messengers of gods are the last people I would give any respect. Tell your deities to contact me directly. To be a middle man here... would look like mental illness to me. As we learn more, religion recedes into the realm of superstition, where it belongs. and none to soon.
@wondergundy We say, then, that the existence of a thing is not possible without a cause of a deficient thing, that is, whose fate is in the hands of its cause and whose permanence is dependent on the existence of its cause. This does not apply to a being that is conscious of its reality and exhibits no trace of defect and limitation.
@1tabligh Life is riddled with defect and limitation.... We are born and the atrophy begins. The greatest thing that can happen to us in this life is for us to be proved wrong. To have something we believe strongly to be correct falsified... that eye opening experience is the most wonderful experience there is. Life is about learning.
are not customarily familiar. There are many invisible beings in the universe. The progress of science and knowledge in the present age have uncovered numerous truths of this kind, and one of the richest chapters in scientific research is the transformation of matter into energy.
@wondergundy In his equation, Einstein says that energy is equal to the mass of muter times the velocity of light squared (E = mc2 where E is energy, m mass, and c velocity of light). The velocity of light is equal to 186,282 miles per second. Also, the mass is equal to the energy divided by the velocity of light squared (m= E/c2).
With this, it became established that the atom with its protons and electrons is nothing in reality but concentrated energy
that can be analyzed and reduced to its primordial state. Thus, according to the modern analysis, energy is the substratum of the world. It is manifested in various shapes and in numerous forms, whether sonic, magnetic, electrical, chemical or mechanical.
In light of this, the duality between matter and radiation, between particles and waves, and between the appearance of electrons sometimes as matter and some other times as light was no longer strange. Rather,
it became somewhat understood; since all these phenomena are [but] forms of one reality, namely, energy.
Then how can you delude yourself and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
@1tabligh Electrons and protons don't decree anything. Where do you get this stuff? You are going round and round, trying to insert your imaginary deity into reality, but you can't make it fit... And you are one of the smart ones.
Matter is in continuous motion and constant development. This is a fact on which we all agree. Further, matter requires a cause that moves it. This is another fact admitted with no disputation. The most basic issue regarding the philosophy of motion is this. Can the matter in motion be the cause or agent of its motion?
@1tabligh The cause being required, is where I draw a line... Who made up this law? There is no cause anywhere you look. This is a man made idea. We made this up because we had a lack of knowledge of how things worked. We are discovering how things work as we speak here. What an eye opener for the people who realized that the earth was round and was not orbited by the sun. You can be cured of your misconceptions also. There is no need for, or evidence of, a supernatural causation force here...
@wondergundy In other words, that which moves is the subject of motion, while the mover is the cause of motion. Can the same thing in the same respect be simultaneously a subject of motion and a cause of it?
@1tabligh In other words... It appears that, We are alone in this, with only our predecessors and descendants. you are just trying to lever in a supernatural, unsubstantiated friend, Our perfectly balanced existence, has no need of this. You are confusing the issue, and me.
@wondergundy With regard to this issue, this is the only explanation that the dialectic can offer as a justification of the dynamism of matter. However, it is very easy to see why this explanation cannot be adopted from a scientific point of view.
If hydrogen were to contain its contradictory essentially and to develop due to this fact, in accordance with the alleged dialectical laws, then why is it that not all the hydrogen atoms were completed?
"Second, if the elements comprising the energy/matter/universe/natural forces/ etc are eternal by virtue of their essence, how is it possible that they should enter the embrace of death and disappearance?
And if, conversely, they lack life in their essences, how can life surge forth from them?
Materialism looks at the world with one eye *closed* and, as a result, is unable to answer numerous questions!
@wondergundy It would surely be illogical to maintain, for example, that the science of medicine has no reality because man has sought and discovered it out of fear, fear of disease and death?
The truth of the matter is that the science of medicine is a reality, irrespective of whether the original motive of man in discovering it was fear of disease and death or some other factor.
What realistic scientist, sincerely given to seeking the truth could claim today that while a kidney transplant is the result of centuries of continuous scientific research and experimentation, the structure of the kidney itself reveals no trace of a creative intelligence and will, being the product of mere nature—nature which has no more knowledge or awareness than a kindergarten pupil?
@1tabligh It is really interesting that your proposed designer, had not the foresight to design organs that are resistant to common diseases and are not prone to failure. The answer to your question is.... The Majority of realistic scientists!!!
What is called science by the *science-worshippers* of the present age and regarded by them as equivalent to the sum total of *reality*, is simply a collection of laws applicable to a single dimension of the world. The result of all human effort and experimentation is a body of knowledge concerning a minute bright dot comparable to the dim light of a candle-surrounded by a dark night enveloping a huge desert of indefinite extent.
All praise is due to ALLAH, the Lord of the Universe.
@hanspeterpitsch Use the reply button instead and answer the question instead!
Dodging the question and quibbling in vain!
Since the chain of causality cannot recede into infinity, they can answer only that matter is an eternal and timeless entity for which no beginning can be posited: matter is non-created, has no beginning or end, and its being arises from within its own nature.
@1tabligh Since the chain of causality appears to recede into infinity, and you have to make shit up to prop up your hypothesis, I'd bet on it being wrong.
@wondergundy Should the scientist, who is aware of the natural causes and of the factors determining each step of creation towards perfection, of mankind's evolution, of the minute accuracy and exactitude that rules every change in the nature that surrounds us, come to believe that these wondrous laws and amazing interactions have somehow *fortuitously* emerged out of *mindless* matter?
@wondergundy Is it logical to say that belief in God is peculiar to those who know nothing about man's composition and creation, and that, by contrast, a scientist who is aware of the natural laws and factors responsible for man's growth and development, who knows that law and precise calculation preside over all stages of man's existence, is bound to believe that matter, lacking all perception and consciousness, is the source of the wondrous laws of nature?
@1tabligh If you had stopped this statement at peculiar... and added in this day and age, I would have slapped you on the back and called you cured. We have conflicting views of logic. Yours seem to me, Steeped in superstition, for which there is no room in mine. Just spit it out.
@wondergundy Is it not more logical to posit the existence of intelligence, will and planning in the creation of and ordering of the world than to attribute creativity to matter which lacks intelligence, thought, consciousness and the power to innovate?
@1tabligh Left to it's own devices, matter has, and it has to be admitted, created a myriad of wondrous things. Modern humans being just one of them. So lets attribute life to some supernatural construct that did not think to put it's signature on it.
@wondergundy Belief in the existence of a wise creator is without doubt more logical than faith in the creativity of matter, which has neither perception, consciousness, nor the ability to plan; we cannot attribute to matter all the properties and attributes of intelligence that we see in the world and the ordering will that it displays.
@1tabligh Is it logical to just make a thing up? To then use that as an answer to a question? I can see how this was useful in the past, but we can get information readily now. If your logic was correct, you could demonstrate it as such , not just state it, like some empirical fact.
@wondergundy How can it be supposed that belief in the existence of God is the acceptance of contradiction, whereas belief in the uncaused nature of an effect such as matter is not contradictory?
How could it be believed that matter should itself be the origin of millions of attributes and characteristics and thus be the equivalent of the purposeful, wise and all-knowing Creator?
@1tabligh It can be supported by reality. The universe and everything in it is real. Something, or should I say nonething, that we can not see... can not feel... can not touch and will not demonstrate itself to most of us, is not real. What use can be made of this thing, out side it's original purpose.... Controlling people. None, I can see.
Some brainless atheists regard matter as independent and imagine that it has itself gained this freedom and elaborated the laws that rule over it.
But how can they believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
@1tabligh Your eloquence amuses me, but your ignorance astounds me. You appear to be logically retarded. You keep spouting:" I don't know... so I'll make something up" I can live with not knowing... Yet. Who produced your producer?
@1tabligh I really don't think you are using the term matter properly. Matter is not manmade entity like a god. You seem to be referring to it as such. No gods in the periodic table.
Materialism looks at the world with one eye *closed* and, as a result, is unable to answer numerous questions!
Materialism imagines that lowly objects are the source for the emergence of higher objects without troubling to ascertain whether the higher, in fact, exists at the level of the lower. If lowly matter is unable even at the highest stage of its development, namely thought and reflection—
@1tabligh You are on a weird branding campaign. "empirical logic" "materialism"??? Read the first few pages of the bible... It is painfully obvious that it is a folk tale. If you can not see this... I would recommend some form of deprogramming. You would not apply that same logic to any other part of your existence beside religion. or would you? Don't you care if what you believe in is real?
@wondergundy Now tell me, have you ever been everywhere?
How strange it is that you have not been everywhere to know what lies everywhere, but nonetheless you deny what exists there. Would any wise man deny the reality of what he is ignorant of?
And you deny the existence of the Creator because you cannot see him with your eyes.
So, in fact, you have doubts concerning the existence of God; you think He may exist and He may not exist?
@1tabligh I have been everywhere I can get to. I have been around. I have looked for things in some odd places.
I have met many people and loved, loathed, and took no interest in a lot of them. I know a lot and very little.. But I will be looking until I'm in the ground. I have only the faculties I was born with., as you do. I really wish there was a god. I have many questions. Does your god talk to you? Maybe you could fill in some blanks.
@wondergundy Is it not true that all the things we accept and believe to exist have an existence belonging to the same category as our own or as things that are visible to us?
Can we see or feel everything in this material world?
@wondergundy What proof exists to substantiate the claim that being is equivalent to matter and that the whole world of being consists of material entities?
What scientist rejecting metaphysics has ever been able to found his denial on logic or proof, or to furnish evidence that beyond absolute non-being, nothing exists outside the seen realm?
@1tabligh You can not disprove a negative. We can only try by our limited, though it is, logic, to deduce the probability. Never having seen any proof of the supernatural, I have to deduce the probability quite low. On a scale of 1-10... a 1 or 2, and I am not comfortable with the 2. Fiction has no physical effect.
@wondergundy All deluded atheists are aware that many of the things known to us consist of matters and realities that we cannot sense and with which we are not customarily familiar. There are many invisible beings in the universe. The progress of science and knowledge in the present age have uncovered numerous truths of this kind, and one of the richest chapters in scientific research is the transformation of matter into energy.
@1tabligh If you are communicating with these invisable beings... You should adjust your medication. If science had uncovered numerous truths, you would think We would have seen at least some of them by now. Same old BS. FYI, I instructed a recreational painting coarse at an asylum in the early 80's. I met Jesus and Napoleon there. If you are talking about the hadron collider ( it is difficult to know what you are on about)... I love that stuff.
@wondergundy Belief in the Reality of the Unseen Involves More than God!
Modern physics tells us that the things of which we have sense perception are firm, solid and stable, and there is no visible energy in their motions. But despite outward appearances, what we, in fact, see and perceive is a mass of atoms that are neither firm nor solid nor stable; all things are nothing other than transformation, change and motion.
@1tabligh I can see how religion appeals to you mindset.... You don't have trouble worshiping ideas. You use such elaborate words to describe,what you openly admit, exists only in your head.
@wondergundy Before he enters the realm of science and knowledge with all its concerns, man is able to perceive certain truths by means of these innate perceptions. But after entering the sphere of science and philosophy and filling his *brain* with various proofs and deductions, he may forget his natural and innate perceptions or begin to doubt them. It is for this reason that when man moves beyond his innate nature to delineate a belief, differences begin to appear.
What our sense organs imagine to be stable and motionless lack all stability and permanence and immobility; motion, change and development embrace them all, without this being perceptible to us by way of direct sensory observation.
When the beings and bodies that are visible in this world wish to produce energy, they are compelled to change their original aspect and transform it into energy.
Now is this energy—the axis on which turn many of the motions and changes of the universe— visible or tangible?
Have you seen that the universe always existed and will always exist?
How come you have taken one side over the other. It is wiser for you to say 'I don't know,' and I will subject myself to further scrutiny, than to take a stand and say there's 'No God' because you have taken that stand and you have *no* evidence.
@1tabligh I have not taken a stand. I have been given no reason to.... I will make the stand when things are demonstrated to me. To do otherwise is not logical to me. I will not take the stance where I am a lesser being or flawed in some way. That is how people become slaves. If others wish to be sheep... Fine, but you should get used to being ridiculed, if you brag about it.
either to create itself or to violate any of the laws that rule over it, it follows ineluctably that it is unable to create other beings and the laws regulating them. How, then, can it be believed that lowly matter should engage in the creation and origination of higher beings or have the power to bestow existence on lofty phenomena?
@1tabligh I don't know... Some imperceptible super being that does not effect me until i'm dead must be at work in the universe. Makes more sense when you make it up though? Doesn't!!!!
@wondergundy We can raise precisely the same objection against the atheists and ask them, "If we follow the chain of causality back, we will ultimately reach the primary cause. Let us say that cause is not God, but matter. Tell us who created primary matter. You who believe in the law of causality, answer us Ws: if matter is the ultimate cause of all things, what is the cause of matter?
You say that the source of all phenomena is matter-energy; what is the cause and origin of matter-energy?"
One of the most destructive and misleading factors in thoughts concerning God is to restrict one's thought to the "logic" of the empirical sciences and to *fail* to recognize the *limits* and boundaries of that "logic".
Is that which is necessary in essence and which is considered the first source of existence matter itself or something else beyond the limits of matter?
Perhaps He may be living there. Perhaps a person of extraordinary intelligence may reside in one of those places.
May be you have admitted the *probability* of a creator, you will, I hope, be convinced to admit the certainty. From *flat denial* you may have come to *doubt*, from that perhaps to *faith.*
Imagining is a sign of impotence when confronted with what you cannot be certain of!
This means that the deluded and the duped atheists and the materialists accept the principle of eternity and non-origination; they believe that all things arose out of eternal matter and that being arises from within the very nature of matter, without any need for a creator.
@1tabligh science worshippers?.... You are bat shit crazy man. really fresh. You have enough nutbar ideas to start your own religion. You should do it.
Is that which is necessary in essence and which is considered the first source of existence matter itself or something else beyond the limits of matter?
Since the chain of causality cannot recede into infinity, they can answer only that matter is an eternal and timeless entity for which no beginning can be posited: matter is non-created, has no beginning or end, and its being arises from within its own nature.
This means that the materialists accept the principle of eternity and non-origination; they believe that all things arose out of eternal matter and that being arises from within the very nature of matter, without any need for a creator.
@1tabligh "chain of causality" What is this? Like: What god made that god then. You have the weirdest ideas about things. If you weren't here to think for nature, it would not exist? Religious people have the most arrogant ideals. until they are alone... Then they end up in the hospital because they have lost there ability to reason properly and end up preaching on the bus.
@parkerjwill This reality of the limitations of the scientific method are self-evident by the massive problems the world is facing. As far as this statement...i struggle to see a connection between world problems and the scientific method
@parkerjwill The world, is not facing any difficulties... Mankind on the other hand, being biologically linked to the other 99% of (Extinct) species on this planet, Will take the dive. unless we use science to move us from and ultimately protect us from the earth itself. The majority of space on earth is uninhabitable. You can sit around and pray or invest in NASA and condoms. Reality!! Yu gotta luv it.
@wondergundy Let me guess, (and please, take no offense), you're a recent high school graduate or, still an object of the public schooling system and you read Scientific American, or Discover magazine(s). You watch the History Channel and others like National Geographic, etc. Your thinking is so mainstream. You pose yourself as a learned person, but in REALITY, you lack common sense - the ground of all genuinely scientific endeavors. Again, please take no offense.
@parkerjwill Let me guess, (and please take no offense), You are a middle aged novelist, all of who's submitted manuscripts have been rejected by your targeted publishers. You tried to do voice narration on some Discovery Institute videos but were turned down because your voice was too high pitched and airy. As of late, you have submitted some religious childrens books and are waiting by the mail box. Keep that head up toots.
@parkerjwill How can you say atheists are limited for asking questions, and trying to find answers? When it is the religious that are proposing non answers based on ignorance and superstition. The person, actually seeking truth is wrong. The person who has invented an answer, that can not proved and closed their mind to other possibilities, is correct? BULLSHIT!!
@wondergundy Empiricism is a faulty foundation for building a sound epistemology. You cannot argue with that. It leaves out consciousness, it cannot explain consciousness because consciousness is transcendental to matter. In this way, so-called scientists are wasting our time and money with their continued obsession with investigating matter by dissecting it. The LHC and all such devices are simply investments in an old, misleading paradigm. Bible thumpers are typically equally incompetent.
@8Zeitgeist Definitely denial. According to Christianity, unbelievers must in hell for all eternity. Christians don't like the idea much when it concerns their own relatives.
Dr Ray is REALLY onto something and I have his book and I am reading it. My hope is that this is the beginning of research in this area as I would like to know more about why this virus is so persistent. What psychological triggers are being targeted in the potential convert (child or otherwise) that makes transmission so effective?
Religion the mental virus. It's fitting. Especially since religion gives you symptoms of several mental illnesses. Compulsiveness (OCD), delusions (DD) , inflated ego at the same time as a diminished self esteem (Narcissist PD.), black and white thinking (BPD), belief that someone is always watching you (paranoid schizo.).
I'm glad I recovered. I'm still recovering from its and pieces here and there. I made a video on modesty, how I feel guilty every time I think I might be immodest.
@fluffywhee When we say that something is good for someone, it means it provides a benefit for them. Otherwise it would be bad for them, or have no effect upon them. What benefit does religion provide for some? I know some common things people see as benefits which are really just harmful to them:
-false sense of security
-false source of comfort
Religion is good for no one, religion is only good at propogating itself.
want to see the next one but i only get a "This video has been removed due to terms of use violation. " ... Bad music use, really offending content or false flagging ?
@WellEnDoweded "Compulsiveness (OCD), delusions (DD) , inflated ego at the same time as a diminished self esteem (Narcissist PD.), black and white thinking (BPD), belief that someone is always watching you (paranoid schizo.)" this guy hit it right on the nail as to why religion is a virus
The same as if I said angels are pulling objects down not gravity.
Don't impose your beliefs like that on people, it's okay to share ideas but to tell someone they are wrong "and my god is real no mater what you'll have to face him" now that's just disrespectful .
@WildernessTree That would be sad for someone to live their life in anger and without love, good thing that isn't my position.
My stance is that of equality for all and I think you should keep your beliefs if they truly make you happy, but you shouldn't try to bring someone down with them,
you can claim to know god,but I can also chose to not accept your claim based on the lack of evidence I have my religious beliefs just like you have yours now lets leave it at that,unless you want to debate.
@WildernessTree Why must people either accept your beliefs or be angry and without love? Praying only works if the person you're praying for believes in it, it's a placebo effect. No matter how much you pray for atheists or tell us you're praying for us, we aren't going to magically start believing in your god or anyone else's bc we don't believe in prayer. I was much happier once I stopped trying to believe in a god. Maybe you're happier with a belief, but personally I can't bring myself to it.
For a guy who stole Richard Dawkins's book title (Oh I'm sorry, he "adapted" it), he sure seems pretty concerned with trying to set himself apart from Dawkins and the other popular Atheists. If the premise of your book has really never been tried before, then why not try a new title too... or is your only real goal to sponge off of the recent successes of prominent Atheist sellers, while trying to find an "angle" that makes it appear that you're filling a niche? I can't imagine...
I watched that show a couple weeks ago. I was already an atheist but it helped me understand some interesting things about religion that I have always wondered about.
Basically religions developed like an organism from our weaknesses, just like when an animal in nature has weaknesses a parasite will probably appear to take the better of them.
haha - i've got a friend who absolutely insists that he doesn't believe in 'religion' per se and the way society 'uses it' but that he does believe in jesus, the gospels, heaven and hell and god. in every other area he's pretty smart and clear-headed - but lolz - it's so patronising when he calls me 'cynical' for basically following my own instincts in this life and not holding onto the bulk of social values - religion being one.
i was walking on cloud nine for moths after i woke up realising i was an atheist. there was definite resentment towards my parents for teaching me bullshit, but it was fortunately overrided by the freedom and beauty of escaping it. then the high wore off and i was struck by the reality of a 'godless' life. its a strange transition - but by definition irreversible.
I feel like I was woken up out of the fucking Matrix on my final acceptance that there is no Experimental Evidence to indicate that any God or Soul/Spirit exists.
Yeah the view sucks but it is better to accept the Universe as it truly is that to exist in delusion.
I now cherish Alhazen as my God and the Scientific Method as the Son of God.
I chant Physics and pray to Mandelbrot. I light the candle of Sagan and burn the incense of Hawking.
I hear you brother, I was born and raised HARDCORE and I actually woke up in about a few week timespan when I was 26. It jolted me pretty hard, and I have been dealing with it for almost 2 years now. None of my friends/family know yet, I just know they will shun me if I tell them.
I don't know how good of an idea it is to try and open many Christian's eyes about the truth of their religion. If they are dumb enough to believe that stuff, how dangerous would they be if they lost their belief that they will go to hell if they don't behave themselves.
i'm a bit worried about the use of language here, the god "virus" is just going to make theists rage and shrug this all off... then again this guy's a psychologist, so he would of seen that coming
@MRaverz No... I just happen to read your previous comment and that's exactly what I think! So... there you have another atheist who is not willing to destroy the religious world of other people... I only care about the well being of humanity and our earth as a whole!
It is a path we all have to take on our own when we fight the God virus in the sence that no one should convert you out of beliveing in god it is a internal personal process well people can help with ideas and to make you feel not alone but we our selves have to do the work no one or no thing can carry the burden for us thats what it seems to me
It worries me how often he uses the words 'God virus', sure it's a good metaphor but if he uses it too much people are going to start viewing religious people as sick or at least below Atheists.
That's the kind of arrogant attitude we can't incubate.
Sorry man, that's actually how I view religious people. They are infected with the virus of irrational faith, and the only way out is if they start to ask questions, think critically, and accept reality.
To take such a stance you would have to be certain of your own position, which undermines the scepticism which we all need to have. If you take an arrogant viewpoint, you replace irrational faith with irrational dismissal.
To be intellectually honest you need to consider things on their merits, then when you reach a conclusion. Doubt it even then. After all, there could be a god who hides themselves - even if it is completely illogical, you can't dismiss it completely just yet.
So you wouldn't think that someone who is an adult believed in santa is fucked up mentally? What if he believed that inivisible flying lizards were after him? Would you still think he's normal just because we haven't "disproven" that those things exist (I think this is what you're after). There is absolutely nothing that points to the existance of a god and it's VERY unlikely that there ever will be. Go read about the burden of proof.
does anyone know the name of the intro song?
OKCBigBear1 2 months ago
@OKCBigBear1 "listen to reason" by bryan steeksma
surfer260 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
This has been flagged as spam show
NEW BOOK (Donated) For Debates And Governance
Topics: WINNING ARGUMENTS FOR CREATIONISM-EVOLUTIONISM DEBATE (See Subchapter 10.2.2, Chapter 10, of Part Two.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balancedway.yolasite.com
balancedway1.yolasite.com
See Announcements at announcements-balancedway.weebly.com
announcements-balancedway.yolasite.com
TheServiceWeb 5 months ago
The whole situation is a gigantic cluster. First things to be aware of: religion and God are NOT the same thing.
Religion is its true, uncontaminated form and function is setup for man as a sort of operating system designed to facilitate spiritual maturity and eventually, full enlightenment, liberation, self-realization, etc.
Religion and science ought to go together. Anyone who tries to divorce either from the other, is working in vain and will only mislead himself and others.
parkerjwill 6 months ago
@parkerjwill Yes religion and god are different. While religions are the social institutions designed to propagate the idea of god as being a reality, "God", is just the idea being propagated. As far as science and religion having to go together....where to start. Science is unbiased questioning about the natural processes of life. Every religion has some presupposed notion about reality and claim it as truth. They simply cannot go hand in hand. Those who say they must are "working in vain..."
dawgpost90 5 months ago
Comment removed
parkerjwill 5 months ago
Science may strive for an ideal of absolute objectivity but even if such a standard is actually demonstrated, the scientists are still using imperfect equipment in their attempts to reveal or discover Truth. Thus, the data they mull over is incomplete. Atheists must recognize the limited capacity of their minds ability to uncover the mysteries of life. This reality of the limitations of the scientific method are self-evident by the massive problems the world is facing.
parkerjwill 5 months ago
@parkerjwill First of all why are imperfect machines a good argument against science? Perfection is an opinion and completely subjective. You could use that argument for anything. If im dying and the use of a defibrillator saves my life, im not going to wonder whether or not the machine and the research backing it was perfect, because it is a reality that it couldn't possibly be perfect.
dawgpost90 5 months ago
@dawgpost90 You said, "Science is unbiased questioning.." I said, 'that may be', but the data they're basing their questions off is faulty because the instruments they're using are imperfect. God represents the Absolute Truth, perfect truth. So the method of trying to reveal the Absolute by methods which are inherently limited and imperfect is troublesome at best.
parkerjwill 5 months ago
@parkerjwill Use all the religious jargon you want...You are demonstrating perfectly why science and religious thought can't coincide. Religious people always want to attack the proven and tested methods of science. Ironically none of your claims of god and the like have no evidence...what so ever...
dawgpost90 5 months ago
@dawgpost90 You wrong sucka! In the end you'll arrive at the Absolute, somehow or another.
parkerjwill 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@parkerjwill If im wrong then show me some evidence to back up your claims. Otherwise you are just spouting hot air. You cant be right...just because you are. If you want to make a claim then back it up.
dawgpost90 5 months ago
Perfection is an opinion and completely subjective. Worth saying again...And please give a factual example of all this faulty data and faulty instruments...
dawgpost90 5 months ago
@parkerjwill in order to believe that god is any kind of absolute you have to first define god........then you have to prove the god that your defining actually exists.......THEN you have to prove that this god is absolute......you yourself say that humans are inherently limited and imperfect.....if that's the case then we as humans could never have any real prove that any god exists.....you have no ground to say that something that you cant prove is absolute
Xlivesforever 5 months ago
@Xlivesforever God is the Absolute Truth. He's the universal ontological singularity, giving meaning and substance to everything. God is the Complete Whole, He's the sum total of everything that exists, even you. As far as proving God exists, that's your job, not mine. That's the task every human is provided an opportunity to accomplish. This human form of life is complete with the facilities to understand what is God, we have a sufficient degree of developed consciousness to ask such questions.
parkerjwill 5 months ago
@parkerjwill y won't god give me a million dollars? or is he just to fucken greedy him/herself?
interstellarwonder 5 months ago
@interstellarwonder derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Jesus, he's dumb!
parkerjwill 4 months ago
@Xlivesforever im not the one making the fucking claim here dont you get that.....i dont have to prove jack shit....your claiming there is a god.....you have to prove it. period
Xlivesforever 5 months ago
@Xlivesforever The atheist Delusion!
How could some of the scientists permit themselves to make a claim that would necessitate knowledge as extensive as the scheme of the universe, when their knowledge of the total scheme of being is *close* to zero, when confronted with a whole mass of unknowns concerning this very earth and tangible, lifeless matter, let alone the whole universe?
1tabligh 3 months ago
Do scientific discoveries and knowledge cause such a scientist to conclude that matter, *unknowing and unperceiving *, is his creator and that of all beings?
No?
Then how can the atheists and some of the scientists delude themselve and *believe* that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
1tabligh 3 months ago
@1tabligh What fools !! Why don't they just make something up... like a god or something did it! You are the one answering your questions with delusions.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Is it at all possible that the cells of the body should learn their functions, pursue their aim in a precise and orderly fashion, and crystallize so miraculously in the world of being, without there being a conscious and powerful being to instruct them?
Is it not rather the case that phenomena such as these prove and demonstrate, with the utmost emphasis, the need for a plan, a design, a guiding hand inspired by conscious will?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Have you looked in a microscope? Nature is infinitely small and large. we have not found the smallest thing or the largest thing. We are looking. We will discover more. Microscope or telescope... no inkling of gods. Because they are fictional concepts.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wo...In just the same way that atheist regards matter as eternal, believers in God attribute eternity to God. Belief in an eternal being is then common to materialist and religious philosophers: both groups agree that there is a primary cause, but believers in God regard the primary cause as wise, all-knowing, and possessing the power of decision and will, whereas in the view of the materialists, the primary cause has neither consciousness, intelligence, perception, nor the power of decision.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh So they are both wrong.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Whatever is stable and immutable in its essence cannot accept movement and change within that essence.
How do deluded and duped atheists, who believe that matter is accompanied by its antithesis, justify the eternity of matter/energy?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh The eternity of matter requires no justification from us. What is, Is. What is supernatural is, In your head.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Eternity means stability and immutability of essence, the impossibility of cessation, but matter/energy is in its essence a compendium of forces and potentialities; it is relativity itself, totally caught up in living and dying.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh We live , We die, Some speculate their time away on nonsense.
wondergundy 2 months ago
Thus, the removal of God in no way solves the problem posed by eternal being.
Moreover, matter is the locus for motion and change, and its motion is dynamic and situated within its own essence. Now, essential motion is incompatible with eternity, and matter and essential stability are two mutually exclusive categories that cannot be fused in a single locus.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Just make it up....
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Eternity is incompatible with the mode of being possessed by matter and the factors and attributes necessitated by its nature. The belief of those who have faith in God concerning a fixed and absolute principle relates to a being who in and of his nature can accept stability and absoluteness; his nature is completely devoid of and remote from the properties of matter.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh There are these 2 things... "Matter", and what you keep trying to prop up... "Doesn't Matter". Eternity would be to a thinking person... A life of fulfilling experiences followed by an excruciatingly long existanse, after all your friends and everything you love is dead. Age is very tiring. Why are religious people so afraid of death?
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy The very nature of matter refuses permanence, eternity and continuity, for it can never separate itself from movement, relativity, and it stands in opposition to being a prime or absolute agent.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Proposing supernatural absolute agents, is what I am against, as they are fictitious. You just refuse to grasp the facts. What matters is here... what does not matter is in your head. You are supposed to break free of these dogmas. We have no evidence of things being eternal... everything we study evolves and changes... With the exception, it appears, of your closed mind.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy All beings were originally non-beings; they were non-existent, and then they became existent. Deluded atheists wish to say that the energy/matter/universe/natural forces/ etc are eternal, but this notion is incorrect for the following reasons:
First, if the material energy/matter/universe/natural forces/ etc are eternal, it follows that an eternal being should be subject to change and cessation, which is impossible.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Atheists do not believe in gods... You Too, are an atheist. There are thousands of gods you do not believe in. Though you may... You don't seem to need valid reasons, in order to believe in things of this nature. My point is You are mixing up blasphemy, with better judgment.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy "If you say that living beings emerge from living elements and inanimate beings from inanimate elements, we reply that an essence that lacks life in and of itself cannot be eternal and cannot be the source for life.
You too are a believer -- All deluded atheists are aware that many of the things known to us consist of matters and realities that we
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh This is like dealing with a child... Beings come out of their fathers testicles. I can't come up with an easier explanation for you.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Belief in the eternity of the energy/matter/universe/natural forces/ etc is held by those who deny the existence of a ruler and planner of creation, reject the messengers of God, regard the books they bring as the fables of the ancients, and **** concoct **** beliefs pleasing to themselves..
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh The messengers of gods are the last people I would give any respect. Tell your deities to contact me directly. To be a middle man here... would look like mental illness to me. As we learn more, religion recedes into the realm of superstition, where it belongs. and none to soon.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy We say, then, that the existence of a thing is not possible without a cause of a deficient thing, that is, whose fate is in the hands of its cause and whose permanence is dependent on the existence of its cause. This does not apply to a being that is conscious of its reality and exhibits no trace of defect and limitation.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Life is riddled with defect and limitation.... We are born and the atrophy begins. The greatest thing that can happen to us in this life is for us to be proved wrong. To have something we believe strongly to be correct falsified... that eye opening experience is the most wonderful experience there is. Life is about learning.
wondergundy 2 months ago
are not customarily familiar. There are many invisible beings in the universe. The progress of science and knowledge in the present age have uncovered numerous truths of this kind, and one of the richest chapters in scientific research is the transformation of matter into energy.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh The universe changes matter into energy constantly. can you mention some other truths of that kind?
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy In his equation, Einstein says that energy is equal to the mass of muter times the velocity of light squared (E = mc2 where E is energy, m mass, and c velocity of light). The velocity of light is equal to 186,282 miles per second. Also, the mass is equal to the energy divided by the velocity of light squared (m= E/c2).
With this, it became established that the atom with its protons and electrons is nothing in reality but concentrated energy
1tabligh 2 months ago
that can be analyzed and reduced to its primordial state. Thus, according to the modern analysis, energy is the substratum of the world. It is manifested in various shapes and in numerous forms, whether sonic, magnetic, electrical, chemical or mechanical.
In light of this, the duality between matter and radiation, between particles and waves, and between the appearance of electrons sometimes as matter and some other times as light was no longer strange. Rather,
1tabligh 2 months ago
it became somewhat understood; since all these phenomena are [but] forms of one reality, namely, energy.
Then how can you delude yourself and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Electrons and protons don't decree anything. Where do you get this stuff? You are going round and round, trying to insert your imaginary deity into reality, but you can't make it fit... And you are one of the smart ones.
You are Muslim?
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy I am a Shiite Muslim!
Matter or God?
Take your choice!
Matter and Motion
Matter is in continuous motion and constant development. This is a fact on which we all agree. Further, matter requires a cause that moves it. This is another fact admitted with no disputation. The most basic issue regarding the philosophy of motion is this. Can the matter in motion be the cause or agent of its motion?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh The cause being required, is where I draw a line... Who made up this law? There is no cause anywhere you look. This is a man made idea. We made this up because we had a lack of knowledge of how things worked. We are discovering how things work as we speak here. What an eye opener for the people who realized that the earth was round and was not orbited by the sun. You can be cured of your misconceptions also. There is no need for, or evidence of, a supernatural causation force here...
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy In other words, that which moves is the subject of motion, while the mover is the cause of motion. Can the same thing in the same respect be simultaneously a subject of motion and a cause of it?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh In other words... It appears that, We are alone in this, with only our predecessors and descendants. you are just trying to lever in a supernatural, unsubstantiated friend, Our perfectly balanced existence, has no need of this. You are confusing the issue, and me.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy With regard to this issue, this is the only explanation that the dialectic can offer as a justification of the dynamism of matter. However, it is very easy to see why this explanation cannot be adopted from a scientific point of view.
If hydrogen were to contain its contradictory essentially and to develop due to this fact, in accordance with the alleged dialectical laws, then why is it that not all the hydrogen atoms were completed?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@wondergundy
Does that make you a theist?
You are quibbling in vain!
1tabligh 2 months ago
"Second, if the elements comprising the energy/matter/universe/natural forces/ etc are eternal by virtue of their essence, how is it possible that they should enter the embrace of death and disappearance?
And if, conversely, they lack life in their essences, how can life surge forth from them?
Materialism looks at the world with one eye *closed* and, as a result, is unable to answer numerous questions!
1tabligh 2 months ago
@wondergundy It would surely be illogical to maintain, for example, that the science of medicine has no reality because man has sought and discovered it out of fear, fear of disease and death?
The truth of the matter is that the science of medicine is a reality, irrespective of whether the original motive of man in discovering it was fear of disease and death or some other factor.
1tabligh 2 months ago
What realistic scientist, sincerely given to seeking the truth could claim today that while a kidney transplant is the result of centuries of continuous scientific research and experimentation, the structure of the kidney itself reveals no trace of a creative intelligence and will, being the product of mere nature—nature which has no more knowledge or awareness than a kindergarten pupil?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh It is really interesting that your proposed designer, had not the foresight to design organs that are resistant to common diseases and are not prone to failure. The answer to your question is.... The Majority of realistic scientists!!!
wondergundy 2 months ago
What is called science by the *science-worshippers* of the present age and regarded by them as equivalent to the sum total of *reality*, is simply a collection of laws applicable to a single dimension of the world. The result of all human effort and experimentation is a body of knowledge concerning a minute bright dot comparable to the dim light of a candle-surrounded by a dark night enveloping a huge desert of indefinite extent.
All praise is due to ALLAH, the Lord of the Universe.
1tabligh 3 months ago
@1tabligh Wow, that was A LOT of nonsense,,
hanspeterpitsch 2 months ago
@hanspeterpitsch Use the reply button instead and answer the question instead!
Dodging the question and quibbling in vain!
Since the chain of causality cannot recede into infinity, they can answer only that matter is an eternal and timeless entity for which no beginning can be posited: matter is non-created, has no beginning or end, and its being arises from within its own nature.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Since the chain of causality appears to recede into infinity, and you have to make shit up to prop up your hypothesis, I'd bet on it being wrong.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Should the scientist, who is aware of the natural causes and of the factors determining each step of creation towards perfection, of mankind's evolution, of the minute accuracy and exactitude that rules every change in the nature that surrounds us, come to believe that these wondrous laws and amazing interactions have somehow *fortuitously* emerged out of *mindless* matter?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Yes.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Is it logical to say that belief in God is peculiar to those who know nothing about man's composition and creation, and that, by contrast, a scientist who is aware of the natural laws and factors responsible for man's growth and development, who knows that law and precise calculation preside over all stages of man's existence, is bound to believe that matter, lacking all perception and consciousness, is the source of the wondrous laws of nature?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh If you had stopped this statement at peculiar... and added in this day and age, I would have slapped you on the back and called you cured. We have conflicting views of logic. Yours seem to me, Steeped in superstition, for which there is no room in mine. Just spit it out.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Is it not more logical to posit the existence of intelligence, will and planning in the creation of and ordering of the world than to attribute creativity to matter which lacks intelligence, thought, consciousness and the power to innovate?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Left to it's own devices, matter has, and it has to be admitted, created a myriad of wondrous things. Modern humans being just one of them. So lets attribute life to some supernatural construct that did not think to put it's signature on it.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Belief in the existence of a wise creator is without doubt more logical than faith in the creativity of matter, which has neither perception, consciousness, nor the ability to plan; we cannot attribute to matter all the properties and attributes of intelligence that we see in the world and the ordering will that it displays.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Is it logical to just make a thing up? To then use that as an answer to a question? I can see how this was useful in the past, but we can get information readily now. If your logic was correct, you could demonstrate it as such , not just state it, like some empirical fact.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy How can it be supposed that belief in the existence of God is the acceptance of contradiction, whereas belief in the uncaused nature of an effect such as matter is not contradictory?
How could it be believed that matter should itself be the origin of millions of attributes and characteristics and thus be the equivalent of the purposeful, wise and all-knowing Creator?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh It can be supported by reality. The universe and everything in it is real. Something, or should I say nonething, that we can not see... can not feel... can not touch and will not demonstrate itself to most of us, is not real. What use can be made of this thing, out side it's original purpose.... Controlling people. None, I can see.
Seems simple, because I think it is.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Matter or God?
Take your choice!
Some brainless atheists regard matter as independent and imagine that it has itself gained this freedom and elaborated the laws that rule over it.
But how can they believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
Pseudo-Scientific Demagoguery!
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Your eloquence amuses me, but your ignorance astounds me. You appear to be logically retarded. You keep spouting:" I don't know... so I'll make something up" I can live with not knowing... Yet. Who produced your producer?
Pseudo-Intellectual stupidity!
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Is your denial of God, then is, because, you have not felt Him with the senses given to us for knowing objects?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh What you said. I have not experienced anything that was supernatural. With the faculties you imply your god has provided for me.
wondergundy 2 months ago
Is it at all feasible to regard all the geometry, functioning and movement of the universe as the outcome of matter in its ignorance?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh I really don't think you are using the term matter properly. Matter is not manmade entity like a god. You seem to be referring to it as such. No gods in the periodic table.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy God and Empirical Logic.
Materialism looks at the world with one eye *closed* and, as a result, is unable to answer numerous questions!
Materialism imagines that lowly objects are the source for the emergence of higher objects without troubling to ascertain whether the higher, in fact, exists at the level of the lower. If lowly matter is unable even at the highest stage of its development, namely thought and reflection—
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh You are on a weird branding campaign. "empirical logic" "materialism"??? Read the first few pages of the bible... It is painfully obvious that it is a folk tale. If you can not see this... I would recommend some form of deprogramming. You would not apply that same logic to any other part of your existence beside religion. or would you? Don't you care if what you believe in is real?
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Now tell me, have you ever been everywhere?
How strange it is that you have not been everywhere to know what lies everywhere, but nonetheless you deny what exists there. Would any wise man deny the reality of what he is ignorant of?
And you deny the existence of the Creator because you cannot see him with your eyes.
So, in fact, you have doubts concerning the existence of God; you think He may exist and He may not exist?
So how do you know what is there?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh I have been everywhere I can get to. I have been around. I have looked for things in some odd places.
I have met many people and loved, loathed, and took no interest in a lot of them. I know a lot and very little.. But I will be looking until I'm in the ground. I have only the faculties I was born with., as you do. I really wish there was a god. I have many questions. Does your god talk to you? Maybe you could fill in some blanks.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Is it not true that all the things we accept and believe to exist have an existence belonging to the same category as our own or as things that are visible to us?
Can we see or feel everything in this material world?
Is it only God we cannot see with our senses?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Real things are important. Made up things... not so much. Why take stock in things that can't affect us.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy What proof exists to substantiate the claim that being is equivalent to matter and that the whole world of being consists of material entities?
What scientist rejecting metaphysics has ever been able to found his denial on logic or proof, or to furnish evidence that beyond absolute non-being, nothing exists outside the seen realm?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh You can not disprove a negative. We can only try by our limited, though it is, logic, to deduce the probability. Never having seen any proof of the supernatural, I have to deduce the probability quite low. On a scale of 1-10... a 1 or 2, and I am not comfortable with the 2. Fiction has no physical effect.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy All deluded atheists are aware that many of the things known to us consist of matters and realities that we cannot sense and with which we are not customarily familiar. There are many invisible beings in the universe. The progress of science and knowledge in the present age have uncovered numerous truths of this kind, and one of the richest chapters in scientific research is the transformation of matter into energy.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh If you are communicating with these invisable beings... You should adjust your medication. If science had uncovered numerous truths, you would think We would have seen at least some of them by now. Same old BS. FYI, I instructed a recreational painting coarse at an asylum in the early 80's. I met Jesus and Napoleon there. If you are talking about the hadron collider ( it is difficult to know what you are on about)... I love that stuff.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Belief in the Reality of the Unseen Involves More than God!
Modern physics tells us that the things of which we have sense perception are firm, solid and stable, and there is no visible energy in their motions. But despite outward appearances, what we, in fact, see and perceive is a mass of atoms that are neither firm nor solid nor stable; all things are nothing other than transformation, change and motion.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh I can see how religion appeals to you mindset.... You don't have trouble worshiping ideas. You use such elaborate words to describe,what you openly admit, exists only in your head.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Before he enters the realm of science and knowledge with all its concerns, man is able to perceive certain truths by means of these innate perceptions. But after entering the sphere of science and philosophy and filling his *brain* with various proofs and deductions, he may forget his natural and innate perceptions or begin to doubt them. It is for this reason that when man moves beyond his innate nature to delineate a belief, differences begin to appear.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh This is called reasoning.... Caution, may be bifficult
wondergundy 2 months ago
What our sense organs imagine to be stable and motionless lack all stability and permanence and immobility; motion, change and development embrace them all, without this being perceptible to us by way of direct sensory observation.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh If you can't sense it ... you won't be responding to it.
wondergundy 2 months ago
When the beings and bodies that are visible in this world wish to produce energy, they are compelled to change their original aspect and transform it into energy.
Now is this energy—the axis on which turn many of the motions and changes of the universe— visible or tangible?
1tabligh 2 months ago
Have you seen that the universe always existed and will always exist?
How come you have taken one side over the other. It is wiser for you to say 'I don't know,' and I will subject myself to further scrutiny, than to take a stand and say there's 'No God' because you have taken that stand and you have *no* evidence.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh I have not taken a stand. I have been given no reason to.... I will make the stand when things are demonstrated to me. To do otherwise is not logical to me. I will not take the stance where I am a lesser being or flawed in some way. That is how people become slaves. If others wish to be sheep... Fine, but you should get used to being ridiculed, if you brag about it.
wondergundy 2 months ago
either to create itself or to violate any of the laws that rule over it, it follows ineluctably that it is unable to create other beings and the laws regulating them. How, then, can it be believed that lowly matter should engage in the creation and origination of higher beings or have the power to bestow existence on lofty phenomena?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh I don't know... Some imperceptible super being that does not effect me until i'm dead must be at work in the universe. Makes more sense when you make it up though? Doesn't!!!!
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy We can raise precisely the same objection against the atheists and ask them, "If we follow the chain of causality back, we will ultimately reach the primary cause. Let us say that cause is not God, but matter. Tell us who created primary matter. You who believe in the law of causality, answer us Ws: if matter is the ultimate cause of all things, what is the cause of matter?
You say that the source of all phenomena is matter-energy; what is the cause and origin of matter-energy?"
1tabligh 2 months ago
Have you ever ascended or visited this sky, which you behold with your eyes, or been in the depths of the earth?
Have you traversed the world, dived in every sea, and moved through the Universe?
To *presumptuously* deny the existence of an Omniscient, Omnipotent Creator, you must have been to all these places.
Well, How can you say that He is not in those places where neither you *nor* your *senses* have ever been?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Yes... I did acid in the 70's Where you one of the bad tripoids?
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy God and Empirical Logic.
One of the most destructive and misleading factors in thoughts concerning God is to restrict one's thought to the "logic" of the empirical sciences and to *fail* to recognize the *limits* and boundaries of that "logic".
Is that which is necessary in essence and which is considered the first source of existence matter itself or something else beyond the limits of matter?
1tabligh 2 months ago
Perhaps He may be living there. Perhaps a person of extraordinary intelligence may reside in one of those places.
May be you have admitted the *probability* of a creator, you will, I hope, be convinced to admit the certainty. From *flat denial* you may have come to *doubt*, from that perhaps to *faith.*
Imagining is a sign of impotence when confronted with what you cannot be certain of!
1tabligh 2 months ago
This means that the deluded and the duped atheists and the materialists accept the principle of eternity and non-origination; they believe that all things arose out of eternal matter and that being arises from within the very nature of matter, without any need for a creator.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh science worshippers?.... You are bat shit crazy man. really fresh. You have enough nutbar ideas to start your own religion. You should do it.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Answer the question!
Dodging ALL the questions and quibbling in vain!
Is that which is necessary in essence and which is considered the first source of existence matter itself or something else beyond the limits of matter?
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh Yes. The thread is gone... You are making no sense to me now.
wondergundy 2 months ago
Since the chain of causality cannot recede into infinity, they can answer only that matter is an eternal and timeless entity for which no beginning can be posited: matter is non-created, has no beginning or end, and its being arises from within its own nature.
This means that the materialists accept the principle of eternity and non-origination; they believe that all things arose out of eternal matter and that being arises from within the very nature of matter, without any need for a creator.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@1tabligh "chain of causality" What is this? Like: What god made that god then. You have the weirdest ideas about things. If you weren't here to think for nature, it would not exist? Religious people have the most arrogant ideals. until they are alone... Then they end up in the hospital because they have lost there ability to reason properly and end up preaching on the bus.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@parkerjwill This reality of the limitations of the scientific method are self-evident by the massive problems the world is facing. As far as this statement...i struggle to see a connection between world problems and the scientific method
dawgpost90 5 months ago
@parkerjwill The world, is not facing any difficulties... Mankind on the other hand, being biologically linked to the other 99% of (Extinct) species on this planet, Will take the dive. unless we use science to move us from and ultimately protect us from the earth itself. The majority of space on earth is uninhabitable. You can sit around and pray or invest in NASA and condoms. Reality!! Yu gotta luv it.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Let me guess, (and please, take no offense), you're a recent high school graduate or, still an object of the public schooling system and you read Scientific American, or Discover magazine(s). You watch the History Channel and others like National Geographic, etc. Your thinking is so mainstream. You pose yourself as a learned person, but in REALITY, you lack common sense - the ground of all genuinely scientific endeavors. Again, please take no offense.
parkerjwill 2 months ago
@parkerjwill Let me guess, (and please take no offense), You are a middle aged novelist, all of who's submitted manuscripts have been rejected by your targeted publishers. You tried to do voice narration on some Discovery Institute videos but were turned down because your voice was too high pitched and airy. As of late, you have submitted some religious childrens books and are waiting by the mail box. Keep that head up toots.
BTW only one of us is posing.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy I'm sorry, I've obviously offended you. Please accept my apology. Good luck to you.
parkerjwill 2 months ago
@parkerjwill I am not offended in the least... I have enjoyed our banter. Best wishes to you.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@parkerjwill How can you say atheists are limited for asking questions, and trying to find answers? When it is the religious that are proposing non answers based on ignorance and superstition. The person, actually seeking truth is wrong. The person who has invented an answer, that can not proved and closed their mind to other possibilities, is correct? BULLSHIT!!
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy Empiricism is a faulty foundation for building a sound epistemology. You cannot argue with that. It leaves out consciousness, it cannot explain consciousness because consciousness is transcendental to matter. In this way, so-called scientists are wasting our time and money with their continued obsession with investigating matter by dissecting it. The LHC and all such devices are simply investments in an old, misleading paradigm. Bible thumpers are typically equally incompetent.
parkerjwill 2 months ago
@parkerjwill Just avoid actuality all together. Did you not understand the term BULLSHIT? That's when someone makes shit up. WAKE UP.
wondergundy 2 months ago
@wondergundy I'm trying.
parkerjwill 2 months ago
Next up: "The God Virus Vs. Militant Atheism"
(clicks on link)
"This vidio is no longer available, because the YouTube account associated with this vidio has been terminated".
What the HELL?!
SinnFein4ever 8 months ago
@rpcarnell denial?
8Zeitgeist 8 months ago
@8Zeitgeist Definitely denial. According to Christianity, unbelievers must in hell for all eternity. Christians don't like the idea much when it concerns their own relatives.
rpcarnell 8 months ago
@rpcarnell sorry to hear that mate.
must be really draining..
8Zeitgeist 8 months ago
Interesting video. I heard this man on one of The Infidel Guy videos on YouTube a long time ago.
Chuloloc 9 months ago
Dr Ray is REALLY onto something and I have his book and I am reading it. My hope is that this is the beginning of research in this area as I would like to know more about why this virus is so persistent. What psychological triggers are being targeted in the potential convert (child or otherwise) that makes transmission so effective?
sieracki001 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Wow, I'm glad not all atheists are this lame :D
Zalwio 1 year ago
@researchOne23 I AGREE.... It's all man-made, what dya expect? :P
fluffywhee 1 year ago
Religion the mental virus. It's fitting. Especially since religion gives you symptoms of several mental illnesses. Compulsiveness (OCD), delusions (DD) , inflated ego at the same time as a diminished self esteem (Narcissist PD.), black and white thinking (BPD), belief that someone is always watching you (paranoid schizo.).
I'm glad I recovered. I'm still recovering from its and pieces here and there. I made a video on modesty, how I feel guilty every time I think I might be immodest.
spartacandream 1 year ago
@spartacandream Find true peace (of mind) there-on... Religion is good for some, but not for everyone!
fluffywhee 1 year ago
@fluffywhee When we say that something is good for someone, it means it provides a benefit for them. Otherwise it would be bad for them, or have no effect upon them. What benefit does religion provide for some? I know some common things people see as benefits which are really just harmful to them:
-false sense of security
-false source of comfort
Religion is good for no one, religion is only good at propogating itself.
spartacandream 1 year ago
want to see the next one but i only get a "This video has been removed due to terms of use violation. " ... Bad music use, really offending content or false flagging ?
Lioobayoyo 1 year ago
I love how they have started to refer to religion as a virus. Makes me smile.
WellEnDoweded 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@WellEnDoweded "Compulsiveness (OCD), delusions (DD) , inflated ego at the same time as a diminished self esteem (Narcissist PD.), black and white thinking (BPD), belief that someone is always watching you (paranoid schizo.)" this guy hit it right on the nail as to why religion is a virus
Xlivesforever 5 months ago
God is real.No matter how smart or rich you get God will still be here
WildernessTree 1 year ago
@WildernessTree Empty claim.
The same as if I said angels are pulling objects down not gravity.
Don't impose your beliefs like that on people, it's okay to share ideas but to tell someone they are wrong "and my god is real no mater what you'll have to face him" now that's just disrespectful .
THADI0US 1 year ago
@THADI0US How sad it must be to be angry and without love and faith in our one and only true God.I will pray for you
WildernessTree 1 year ago
@WildernessTree That would be sad for someone to live their life in anger and without love, good thing that isn't my position.
My stance is that of equality for all and I think you should keep your beliefs if they truly make you happy, but you shouldn't try to bring someone down with them,
you can claim to know god,but I can also chose to not accept your claim based on the lack of evidence I have my religious beliefs just like you have yours now lets leave it at that,unless you want to debate.
THADI0US 1 year ago
@WildernessTree Why must people either accept your beliefs or be angry and without love? Praying only works if the person you're praying for believes in it, it's a placebo effect. No matter how much you pray for atheists or tell us you're praying for us, we aren't going to magically start believing in your god or anyone else's bc we don't believe in prayer. I was much happier once I stopped trying to believe in a god. Maybe you're happier with a belief, but personally I can't bring myself to it.
CakeFace579 1 year ago
For a guy who stole Richard Dawkins's book title (Oh I'm sorry, he "adapted" it), he sure seems pretty concerned with trying to set himself apart from Dawkins and the other popular Atheists. If the premise of your book has really never been tried before, then why not try a new title too... or is your only real goal to sponge off of the recent successes of prominent Atheist sellers, while trying to find an "angle" that makes it appear that you're filling a niche? I can't imagine...
instereovideos 1 year ago
Comment removed
instereovideos 1 year ago
I watched that show a couple weeks ago. I was already an atheist but it helped me understand some interesting things about religion that I have always wondered about.
Basically religions developed like an organism from our weaknesses, just like when an animal in nature has weaknesses a parasite will probably appear to take the better of them.
Battery9876 1 year ago
haha - i've got a friend who absolutely insists that he doesn't believe in 'religion' per se and the way society 'uses it' but that he does believe in jesus, the gospels, heaven and hell and god. in every other area he's pretty smart and clear-headed - but lolz - it's so patronising when he calls me 'cynical' for basically following my own instincts in this life and not holding onto the bulk of social values - religion being one.
ohdoshutit 1 year ago
i was walking on cloud nine for moths after i woke up realising i was an atheist. there was definite resentment towards my parents for teaching me bullshit, but it was fortunately overrided by the freedom and beauty of escaping it. then the high wore off and i was struck by the reality of a 'godless' life. its a strange transition - but by definition irreversible.
ohdoshutit 1 year ago
What is the name of the song?
AmpereTube 1 year ago
@AmpereTube Listen to Reason by Bryan Steeksma
Nohname1 1 year ago
@Nohname1 Cheers =)) tobad it isn't on Spotify
AmpereTube 1 year ago
@AmpereTube I never heard of Spotify, unfortunately it's not on Pandora either.
Nohname1 1 year ago
What is that intro song called?
Lakerust 1 year ago
Who sings that intro song?
HeadoftheHydra 1 year ago 3
it's funny how he said the atheist meetings were like AA meetings. AA is structured on religion.
Bobalithmiss1 1 year ago
Take the red pill
TheSafecracker777 1 year ago
I feel like I was woken up out of the fucking Matrix on my final acceptance that there is no Experimental Evidence to indicate that any God or Soul/Spirit exists.
Yeah the view sucks but it is better to accept the Universe as it truly is that to exist in delusion.
I now cherish Alhazen as my God and the Scientific Method as the Son of God.
I chant Physics and pray to Mandelbrot. I light the candle of Sagan and burn the incense of Hawking.
turkeyburgers 1 year ago 2
I hear you brother, I was born and raised HARDCORE and I actually woke up in about a few week timespan when I was 26. It jolted me pretty hard, and I have been dealing with it for almost 2 years now. None of my friends/family know yet, I just know they will shun me if I tell them.
BrainRazer 1 year ago
hey ,anyone whats the name of the intros song ?
tbcslayer 1 year ago
Can't spell fundamental, without Mental =)
KaelHunter 1 year ago
The AA model is "you are powerless, you need god's help."
SamHagagaga 1 year ago
AA just trades one addiction for another.
ATHEISTIQ 1 year ago
I don't know how good of an idea it is to try and open many Christian's eyes about the truth of their religion. If they are dumb enough to believe that stuff, how dangerous would they be if they lost their belief that they will go to hell if they don't behave themselves.
zackindy312 1 year ago
I am one lucky guy I never took any of it in after I was 9. Shortly after that I started using the word BULLSHIT ! I never had to run away from it.
no1saphead 1 year ago
I have asked the Catholic Church what I need to do to get ex-communicated. Basically they said I am not famous or powerful enough.
Richardgwm 1 year ago
i'm a bit worried about the use of language here, the god "virus" is just going to make theists rage and shrug this all off... then again this guy's a psychologist, so he would of seen that coming
IzzyBunneh 1 year ago
It seems you are one of the few who share this view with me.
MRaverz 1 year ago
@MRaverz No... I just happen to read your previous comment and that's exactly what I think! So... there you have another atheist who is not willing to destroy the religious world of other people... I only care about the well being of humanity and our earth as a whole!
barefootID 1 year ago
It is a path we all have to take on our own when we fight the God virus in the sence that no one should convert you out of beliveing in god it is a internal personal process well people can help with ideas and to make you feel not alone but we our selves have to do the work no one or no thing can carry the burden for us thats what it seems to me
fallbread 1 year ago
It worries me how often he uses the words 'God virus', sure it's a good metaphor but if he uses it too much people are going to start viewing religious people as sick or at least below Atheists.
That's the kind of arrogant attitude we can't incubate.
MRaverz 1 year ago
Sorry man, that's actually how I view religious people. They are infected with the virus of irrational faith, and the only way out is if they start to ask questions, think critically, and accept reality.
ShadowReubenKee 1 year ago 2
To take such a stance you would have to be certain of your own position, which undermines the scepticism which we all need to have. If you take an arrogant viewpoint, you replace irrational faith with irrational dismissal.
To be intellectually honest you need to consider things on their merits, then when you reach a conclusion. Doubt it even then. After all, there could be a god who hides themselves - even if it is completely illogical, you can't dismiss it completely just yet.
MRaverz 1 year ago
So you wouldn't think that someone who is an adult believed in santa is fucked up mentally? What if he believed that inivisible flying lizards were after him? Would you still think he's normal just because we haven't "disproven" that those things exist (I think this is what you're after). There is absolutely nothing that points to the existance of a god and it's VERY unlikely that there ever will be. Go read about the burden of proof.
Sotamursu90 1 year ago