Gordon Fee on Tom Wright and other authors

[Strefanasha]

the fondness for christian books that too many christians show indicates that for all our rhetoric we do not believe sola scriptura.

for myself i find Tom Wright far too liberal when i recall hearing that he declined to take literally "the sun shall darken the moon turn to blood the stars shall fall fom the sky"

i dont care if Wright were the pope himself. ifhe did this, and my memory may not serve me correctly, then he is of no interest to me.

[Strefanasha]

i dont read christian books. having been devastated by CS Lewis' dictum concerning unbelieving and anxious thoughts (SHOVE THEM BACK, he said) I will not waste my time effort and money on them. moreover christians on history is self indulgent revisionist nonsense usually designed to catholic bash. so i touch none of it.

the bible is good enough for me and i get my history from secular professional historians except where i think the contradict scripture

[neoclassicism1]

@Strefanasha Do you read Bible commentaries? Because surely that's one of the first places we look if we are to understand some of the more complicated passages of scripture. The main reason why I disagree with the idea of 'I just turn to the Bible, I don't need anything else' is that over the centuries, many good, Godly people have spent their lives studying Scripture and writing about their findings; to say that you don't need their insights risks sounding quite arrogant!

[Strefanasha]

@neoclassicism1 I need the Holy Spirit. why dive into a sewer in the hope of finding a copper piece or two? so i follow another man;'s insights. so what. that does not make me closer to christ. only the Holy Spirit can do that.

I have read christian books. once upon a time I in fact devoured them.

It was a waste of effort. even the best of them were no help to my need to be right with a holyand terrible God

[neoclassicism1]

@Strefanasha No. 1 'I need the Holy Spirit' - of course we do! I doubt any reputable theologian says otherwise! The Holy Spirit is 'the Lord and giver of life', so he's usually pretty important! The question I ask is this: surely the Holy Spirit moves upon our lives through the impact of other Christians? To deny this is to deny the impact of the Spirit. To accept this is to show a bit of humilty before the face of God, and respect for one's fellow Christians. So, you call Christian books...

[neoclassicism1]

@Strefanasha ...books 'a sewer in the hope of finding a copper piece or two'. Well, surely by saying that, you are claiming that the Holy Spirit cannot offer insights to other people on the nature of Scripture? If that is the case you are first denying the work of the Spirit, and secondly you are actually claiming that only YOU can receive the Spirit's illumination! Do you really believe this? No. 2 'Good godly people? would you care to name some?' - I ask this question: are you perfect?...

[neoclassicism1]

@Strefanasha ...perfect? Are you without sin? But praise God, our Lord does not use the perfect, those who are without sin. Instead, God in his grace uses people like me and you - boastful, ungodly sinners - through which his Holy Spirit illuminates. Of course, God worked through sinful and ungodly men like Martin Luther and John Calvin, but in doing so he declared them justified - holy and righteous (Godly!) people. The Holy Spirit - praise God - does not use the righteous, but the....

[neoclassicism1]

@Strefanasha ...the unrighteous, not the godly, but the ungodly, not the holy but the sinner. This is the heart of justification by faith. Praise God! It is HE who declares me righteous, not I, and certainly not through any work of mine! No. 3 'If I need any insight i will get it direct from the Holy Spirit' - I ask you this question: does God only speak to you and no one else? Are you above other humans, a kind of mediator of illumination? If so, then arise, Oh Christ, and take or place...

[neoclassicism1]

@Strefanasha ...place at the right hand of God! If not, then be humble before the face of the Almighty. He gives his illumination through me, through you, through other Christians. Remember, 'illumination' is that which illuminates 'revelation' - the Holy Spirit illuminates Scripture through many means - other Christians, books, prayer, sudden strange understandings. To deny this is to deny God, and to declare thyself as a man above other men. God has much to illuminate (as he does to me!) ...

[neoclassicism1]

@Strefanasha ...me!)... so do not deny him ANY routes by which he may do so. That includes books by other Christians - undeserving, ungodly people who God has generously given his Holy Spirit and declared justified, Godly.

[Strefanasha]

@neoclassicism1 good godly people? would you care to name some? I can't find any in history. the reformation was a hate fest. The more church history i read the less impressed i am with it .

The scriptures are inspred by God. the writings of men are not. I have read enough this; and if i need any insight i will get it direct from the Holy Spirit. that is what He is for. He is PERFECTLY willing to reinvent the wheel, for the issue is relationship with Him not just propositional knowledg

[godnoiseandwords]

@Strefanasha

Just a thought, having studied the Reformation and other Christian theology, the principle of sola scriptura--which was coined during the Reformation-- was never intended to mean the Bible is the only book we ought to read. The Reformers themselves were thoroughly familiar with the Church Fathers, especially Augustine, as well as the Greeks (Martin Luther lectured on Aristotle quite frequently for some time). It meant that Scripture is the only norming norm, not to be normed by..

[godnoiseandwords]

@Strefanasha

Just a thought, having studied the Reformation , the principle of sola scriptura--which was coined during the Reformation-- was NEVER intended to mean the Bible is the only book we ought to read. The Reformers themselves were thoroughly familiar with the Church Fathers, especially Augustine, as well as the Greeks (Martin Luther lectured on Aristotle quite frequently for some time). It meant that Scripture is the only norming norm, not to be normed by any other book.

[bzagar1]

That's a given about the Bible. Him liking N.T Wright's books presupposes the inspiration of Scripture. Since, N.T Wright's basis for everything he writes is from the Bible.

[teed60]

You forgot to mention the Bible as it to encourages us to be on fire for the Lord,Jesus Christ is the truth and the only way for many.