Here's the main thing from this guys. We CAN learn from women. They are JUST AS competent and INTELLIGENT. Like John said, it's not obscene! And it shouldn't be something that makes our self-righteous heart squirm in its seat. But we need to understand that in God's perfect plan, there are roles that men and women play to build the kingdom. And there is no role that is more glorified or less dignified, which is why we need to RESPECT the roles that women are given.
So to Piper the words "I suffer not a woman to teach" means "I suffer not a man to become dependent upon a woman as his shepherd." Really? Piper doesn't have an exegetical leg to stand on here.
What a bunch of crap! Jesus (Yeshua) even had women in his circles. Mary Magdelene was one of his disciples, outside the traditional twelve. There is more to the Bible than the 66 books that were "authorized" by the Catholic church. More to control the masses by controlling belief and thought. What a shame.
All have sinned and greatly offended the Holy God of the bible.! The just punishment is death then hell. because God is good He cannot let sin go unpunished. He will by no means clear the guilty. Gods will is that all come to repentence He became a man Jesus Christ suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His lifes blood now He can legally dismiss your case. you must repent turn from your sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your eternal salvation.
The feminization of our society is the CURSE God allows for us to happen because we are REBEL to his holy word. Women are given more and more authority over men in almost every field and HERE is the curse : men are being psychologically castrated and made unable to be in charge and be the HEAD .
GOD knows what manhood and womanhood are and how they function and dysfunction . We know so litte actually but we are too foolish and rebel to follow his PERFECT paths about gender roles. SHAME on us .
Yes you're so right. But it's so shameful that christianity buys into feminism. I cannot belive there can be such thing as "christian feminism". We cannot fight the world but we HAVE TO fight what is in the church . Our brothers must fight the feminist enemy and DEFEAT it with God's help.
@framboise595 I'm sorry, but I can't agree. Women are systematically oppressed in a society that treats men as the measure of things. Jesus loves the oppressed and binds up their wounds, so we cannot possibly call those who seek to free the oppressed the 'feminist enemy', however much we might disagree with them.
@framboise595 I'm sorry, but I can't agree. Women are systematically oppressed in a society that treats men as the measure of things. Jesus loves the oppressed and binds up their wounds, so we cannot possibly call those who seek to free the oppressed the 'feminist enemy', however much we might disagree with them.
@framboise595 Yes,it´s an illness in society,causes so much demage in relationships and ppl´s lives.In past,men misused their position of stronger sex and treated women with wrong,taking power over them.That is not what God says they should do,which is to love their wifes as Jesus loves the church,protect them,be the head=take responsibility,be wise,bold and strong for both.Without knowing God and His principals,women protect themselves this agressive way and men submitt.This causes the curse.
Sorry but I don't agree . Men who take power over women are perfectly right .Read Genesis 3:16 "He SHALL rule over thee". God commanded men to do this knowing perfectly that women would not submit and would usurp male authority after the fall (CURSE).
Women don't respect their heads ,actually they don't respect anything, whether marriage , name , hierarchy .NOTHING. There is something rebel within women which links them to Satan.
@framboise595 Yes,men were made to be the head.And treat women with respect. Read Ephesians 5th chapter. Same as Jesus is the head of the church. How Jesus treats you, you should treat women,with love
I'm not a man. I just realize how corrupt my gender now that it's not kept in check by men anymore . It's really awful. Of course men should treat women with love but God reinforced male authority (He shall rule over thee) because of the fall ,knowing that women would not submit normally and will struggle for power instead .
Realize that even in the church , women just refuse to submit and all they want is usurping the male role. Because of this ,men have to react.
@framboise595 women are no more linked to Satan than men. Adam who should have been watching over Eve, did not do it and participates on what happened. As the head, it is his responsibility
I don't find what he says obscene. Obsolete, sad, wretched, yes. Obscene? No. If I'm techning something to you now please forget that I am a women - or will you check my name before you look at the post? Just the way things are is the time old stance of those who are in power. Women are free and strong and wise. Of course men can learn from women (if they aren't as narrow minded as this man). He is too old now to understand how silly his stance is. Yes, silly is the right word.
@dianagordon6 Perhaps if you claim to be teaching something you should spell the word right. He never says that women are wise or free or strong (the Bible claims all of those things for a woman). He never says that men can't learn from women, in fact, he explicitly says that they can. Beyond that, he says that the Bible says they should not be the permanent authority, in the context of the Church, over a man, which is true. So I think your problem is more with the Bible.
The funny thing here, is that you all think you're right, when in fact you may have all got it completely wrong. Everyone interprets the bible differently, and no one has the right to tell someone else they are wrong. Now, just before you all go on the offensive, remember I didn't ACTUALLY give an opinion on if its okay for Women to preach to men.
@dinobert06 "Everyone interprets the bible differently, and no one has the right to tell someone else they are wrong" and so, after it u say "when in fact you may have all got it completely wrong." Do u know what we call it? Hypocrite. If u maintain this position, then, ur a blasphemer too. Why? Jesus gave interpretations among the Old Testament. Perhaps He was wrong? Well, He had a diferent interpretation from the pharisees and He said they were wrong.(Of course not)
@Sergiofilhopb Did you actually read what I said? "when in fact you MAY *EMPHASIS ON MAY* have got it completely wrong. Which means, I didn't give an opinion on if anyone was actually wrong. So, next time you have a problem with what someone has said, try not calling them senseless names.
@dinobert06 The problem with your statement is it leaves for anyone to have an interpretation making the bible UN-clear and making the word of God powerless. They reason we have many interpretations is because we have Christians who interpret words or passeges that please the flesh. Like the word prosperity. To a christian living it Christ he does not think money first. To a fallen carnal man, his first reaction is money wealth and health. Thus applying meaning to a text.
@DefendTheGospel007 I agree with you. But no one has the right to tell someone else that their interpretation is wrong, or more wrong than theirs. One person might think they've got it completely right, and then we find out that's NOT what God meant. Everyone is entitled to their own opionion, that's the beauty of having a relationship with God, everyone's is personal, different and their own.
Theres so many famous women in the gosspil times who testified for God, showed strength in faith, were in God's favor yet the bible didnt include many of those storys, then men prob. said heaven forbid.
@Missytrilakes This is a pragmatic argument, they witnessed for Jesus, but they werent "pastors, apostles, masters" or this kind of thing. There's not a single verse for it.
In biblical times women babled in church, didnt have much knowledge about questions, etc, thats prob. why women couldnt learn, be taught, and were repressed, that prob. why Paul said what he said about women...........another cultural issue.
@Missytrilakes No, never a cultural issue, Paul arguments using Genesis facts, such as sin coming through Eve, and what happened when the snake asked what would happen if they did eat the fruit? "And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."(Genesis 3:3 King James)
@agapeguide I am a Christian. I attended Catholic school where I was taught by priests and nuns; we learned that many of the stories in the Old Testament are metaphors and allegories. There was no literal Adam and Eve. Most mainstream denominations accept evolution as a fact. It is only fundamentalist churches who deny it.
@strawberryseason Well I wouldn't say it's only fundamentilist churches... I go to a normal, every day church who doesn't believe it's fact. I dont' think it's fact either, and I'm not fundamentalist in the slightist. So, maybe it's just Australia ^^
@dinobert06 The United Methodist Church, the Episcopal Church in the USA, the United Church of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church, and many Lutheran, Presbyterian and Congregational Churches accept the science of evolution, and do not view evolution as incompatible with the existence of God.
@strawberryseason I agree with what you're saying about 'evolution not being incompatible with Christianity", they ARE compatible. However, I don't know if every Christian church would really put evoltion ahead of the Creation theroy. I think it's more 'directed evolution'. From my experience anyway. I've been in Methodist, raised in Baptist and my husband was raised in Catholisim, and we'd never heard of anything like what you said before. That's why I commented :).
@dinobert06 The position of the Catholic Church is that God is the Prime Mover, that God exists before matter exists. The Catholic Church does not dispute evolution. They accept "theistic evolution," that evolution was set in place and guided by God.
@strawberryseason well if you were taught that adam and eve were not a man and a woman then you were simply taught fraudulent error. so you beleive everything you are taught by a man and a woman,, priest and a nun? dear lord no way. it is not only fundamentalist churches who deny what you say. you have a moronic stunted view of the world. it is much bigger than you or i, or your priest and nun. i cant believe there are still people like you that can type.
@jamesraymondsmith Your personal insults are very unkind & off-topic. If you call yourself a Christian, you should behave in a Christian way. The Catholic Church's official approach to the Bible, ever since Vatican ll, is called the "Historical-Critical Method." This approach to Scripture takes into account historical & cultural context, and acknowledges the use of literary forms such as allegories in Scripture. Adam and Eve is a just story. The Church acknowledges the validity of evolution.
@strawberryseason so you tell me m. moses, how is a christian supposed to act? your way? i think it is farcical to accept as fact what some nun or a priest has taught you. no one wants to be told what they were taught. who really cares? if you pronounce that as fact then you are open and fair game to insults. i want to know what you personally believe, not what someone told you, dear lord we have enough of that crap. i dont accept what catholicism teaches on any level.
@jamesraymondsmith there history, as far back as it goes, it to go around adapting whatever was accepted in any community in europe. from absolutions on ad infinitum. it is fine to accept certain biblical events and teachings, re the book of revelation as metaphoristic, but clearly there was first a real man and a real woman. to deny that would be idiocy. some of these hair splitting theories and what is accepted by this scholar and that one simply do NOT matter.
@jamesraymondsmith If you think it is appropriate to insult people over issues of Biblical interpretation, then you are a Christian in name only, not in deed.
yes you can. if you follow christ you are christian. what it means to be christian beyond that is something that everyone defines individually. you have no authority on it, no commandments from god. Catholic doctrine(which he got slightly wrong) is that you may believe in a literal or non literal interpretation of genesis so long as you believe that god did create man in his image.
If genesis is literal we were all born from incest.
@Sergiofilhopb she was wrong for even engaging in a conversation with the serpent! In addition, she trapped herself in the devils snare when she omitted Gods word. The ALMIGHTY actually said: “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Perhaps if she would not have made it such a "little" issue and would have restated the WORD OF GOD, things would be different.
@followbygrace John Piper believes that it is not appropriate for men to have a woman spiritual leader. However, he does not find it inappropriate for a woman to have a male spiritual leader or pastor. He believes that males are on a higher level/superior to females. This is also what Muslim Fundamentalists believe. He has a lot in common with them.
@strawberryseason Well if you were a Christian and knew the scriptures as God breathed 2 Timothy 3:16 and unable to be broken (contradicted) John 10:35, then you would accept the following scripture rather than equate God's word to Muslim fundamentalism, which no doubt, is a subject in which you have no knowledge also, 'Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.' 1 Corinthians 14:34
@GordonCope I am a Christian, but not a Fundamentalist. If you do not accept female pastors or leaders then you must find yourself among a very few & probably live in the South.
@strawberryseason i do not live in the south, have lived in 12 different states, worked with catholics, methodists, episcopalians, etc, in the air force chaplaincy in california, evangelical bible schools, (dont agree with all they say either) and as a personal preference do not listen nor accept a woman as a pastor,, teacher, maybe, as this is nowhere mentioned in the new testament. and i am NOT a misogynist. it goes like this, jesus the head of the man, man the head of the woman.
@jamesraymondsmith paul is speaking to the gentiles here and his context is the church. if the woman disagress with man, they take it home and discuss it. also paul has stated " i am not saying the lord "told" me this, this is my conviction(paraphrasing) in other passages on certain subjects. when someone has an axe to grind they simply say "the lord himself said this 17 times in scripture), but they dont say "Paul said this 4 times". woman dont cover their head because of angels do they?
@jamesraymondsmith Man is not the head of woman. They are equal. If you believe differently, then you will have a hard time coping with living in a democracy, where people have equal rights.
@strawberryseason we are talking about a church situation, what we are talking abou t madam, is if you and your wife are on your knees praying about a decision that must be made, then it is the duty of the man to make the final decision. i do not know why youare talking about democracy or a republic. we are talking about a church situation madam. i do not see why this is so hard to understand for you. a marriage is not a democracy. so who casts the decideing vote in a marriage madam?
@jamesraymondsmith marriage is the same as a church situation. if you both disagree then it is time to part. you or he will stay together ifyou want to be married ifyou both disagree i am talking about biblical principles applied to marriage. biblical principles applied to marrige is rare i think. we are talking BIBLE, not democracy. who even mentioned democracy? do you think the bible isa democracy are younot supposed to be subject in some sense toa pastor? you cant walk up and starttalkin
@jamesraymondsmith It is not "up to the man to make the final decision." Those types of patriarchal marriages are destructive, particularly to the children.
@strawberryseason you have no evidence that a "patriachal marriage is destructive" to anyone. this is merely your opinion. people who believe that the bible concerns them on this area dont have a poblem with it. so, tell us, your eminence, who makes a decision? look, if both the woman and the man agree that one of them has to make a decision then who are YOU to say it is a destructive thing? you give out nothing but a disagreement. many couples have and do itthis way. where is your experience?
@jamesraymondsmith i dont think you have any. or you would already talk about your spouse and how it has worked. i marvel at people as you, that type one definitive sentence and it really does not say much. it seems your experience is negative. you sound as a sage in matters of bible and marriage, but my intution is that you are not. but, of course only the pope can interpet for you.
@jamesraymondsmith I do research and I have won many awards for my research. I have an MA in sociology and am working on a PhD. I was inducted into Phi Beta Kappa, which is the most prestigious honor society in the US. I am not just coming on here and blowing hot air, like some.
@strawberryseason good for you! however, i think it is a jump to say that if a couple choose to believe the bible in their marriage and they follow a biblical path, there are those who do this. they "agree" that in difficult decisions that would break up a marriage , sometimes one has to "give in". thus, the man is the head of them both. this does not have to be a patriarchal thing. ifyou are a sociologist surely you know of power struggles in marriages that destroy the union.
@jamesraymondsmith on the other side of the coin, i knew a man and his wife, both pastors, and she definitely looked and acted as if she "wore the pants ", she had an executive job, and he stayed at home. she did not preach. he did., but, you sure could tell she came from a matriarchal family. these can be facts. there are families with sisters/brothers that have had strong women, and "weak" or passive men. my family is matriarchal. the grandmother never said a harsh word, very meek and mild
@jamesraymondsmith, but under that meek and mild was a strong constitution the grandfather smoked and drank some wouldnt go to church, but she went all the time, the four daughters ( my aunts)were very strong, the men(unlces) rather weak. it can work both ways you know. where is the balance? the balance is the agreement by the husband and wife. which is what my point is about.
@jamesraymondsmith What studies have found, is that the way that the two spouses express themselves, when in conflict, is very important to the survival of the marriage. If they maintain mutual respect, disagreements (which are inevitable in all close relationships) can be worked through. The power struggles you refer to, yes, are very destructive. Relationships break down when one or both of the spouses have a communication style that involves the expression of contempt for the partner.
@strawberryseason So quick question, are going to die putting faith and trust in what man says(Teachers,scientists,doctors,Leaders, etc)? Man also finds Homosexuality and abortion perfectly normal, is that all of a sudden the end all be all to your answers in life? Psalm 118:8 It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in people. Jeremiah 17:9 "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?
@realcoolboy17 Every church uses Scriptural interpretation. There is no church that takes the Bible exactly literarally. If so, then no Christian would eat shellfish, or shave his beard, nor accumlate wealth. Also, having multiple wives as well as owning slaves is condoned in some parts of the Bible. That doesn't make those things right. What is necessary is thoughtful exegesis, the critical analysis of Biblical passages by theologians or other Biblical scholars.
@strawberryseason Mark 7:18 (NIV) "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'?
Mark 7:19 (NIV) For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." If you read your bible you would know all food for the glory of God is clean, stop making excuses, if the bible says something it means something. Take that false doctrine before the Lord all you want it would be your problem.
@strawberryseason Also the greatest commandment in the New Testament is what? Matthew 22:36-40: “ Then a lawyer asked our Lord Jesus, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” Jesus' answer “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets
@realcoolboy17 Regarding accumulation of wealth, Matthew 19:24. "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." This has crystal-clear meaning, and it is from the mouth of Jesus. For those who take every word of the Bible literally, like John Piper, it is interesting how they ignore this statement, yet put much stock into Paul's admonishment that women are not supposed to preach in church.
@strawberryseason So.. let me get this straight from this PARABLE you have concluded that Jesus wants none of his people to prosper? "Say it ain't so Joe", It's common sense that it would be harder for a man blessed with immense amounts of worldly possessions to turn from there carnal ways and walk in spirit and truth., but need I remind you of all the great men of God who were prosperous Kings who ruled the lands. Because they pleased God they were given much things.
@realcoolboy17 Matthew 19:23-24 is not a parable. It is a direct teaching. Jesus's parables are stories to illustrate moral or ethical principals, i.e. the Prodigal Son & the Good Samaritan. It seems that John Piper and some others, who take every part of the Bible literally, dismiss Matthew 19:23-24. They do not sell their possessions and give them to the poor. I am not saying that people shouldn't be wealthy. I am only saying that this teaching by Jesus is at least as important as Paul's.
@strawberryseason What Jesus is saying in Matthew 19 is that it is impossible for anyone to get to heaven, it would take a miracle. He's uses it to highlight that it takes miracle to get to heaven, not anything we can do ourselves. Of course a camel can not fit through the eye of a needle! That is ridiculous, so is a rich man getting into heaven. Jesus is not saying "give up everything you have" to us, he is saying he can save us but we cannot save ourselves.
@strawberryseason "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law" Follow the commandments through grace and faith(not trying to obtain or sustain salvation, it's already there for those who believe in Christ Jesus as their Lord and savior), ounce you love the Lord with all you heart everything else follows. God bless.
@strawberryseason I encourage you to (if you haven't already) accept Jesus Christ as your only Lord and savior so your sin can be cleansed with his holy blood that was graciously shed for you.
@realcoolboy17 I appreciate your concern for my spiritual wellbeing, but I think you should keep your focus on your own thoughts and deeds. Examine your own history and how it has affected you. That will help you be a better citizen of your community. You don't know me at all; you are making assumptions, and parading your righteousness. Jesus said not to do that.
@strawberryseason I have no righteousness, all my righteousness is as filthy rags, im only here to spread the true and living word of God and spread the good news of Christ. If God called me to be selfish for his kingdom and only worry about my own spiritual well being I would not need to be saved (lol). What you call parading is simply just truth, funny thing about truth is you don't need to agree for it to be truth :). God bless
@jamesraymondsmith Marriages where the husband and wife are equal partners are more likely to last, and they provide healthier families for children to be in. Reams of sociological literature back this up. If you want to have children with neuroses and violence problems, then have them raised with a patriarchal father.
Jesus also said it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. I wonder if you take that literally, too.
@Averageknow The key is Paul’s epistle in Galatians 3:28: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” There is much controversy among Biblical scholars regarding the exegesis of 1 Timothy 2:12, calling for women to not teach and to remain silent in church. Some scholars say that the text is about the specific situation in Ephesus, where the local church was being torn apart by false teachers. The enduring truth is in Galatians 3:28.
Sorry but you cant choose to follow some twisted laws against homosexuality and then ignore clearly anti-female ones, accept gay marriage or start stoning women. ...or forever be a hypocrit.
Does John Piper regard 1 Timothy 2 as only applying to the church and religious instruction, or does he believe it is speaking more generally? For instance, is it permissible for women to teach at university or other forms of schools?
As a woman, I would say that it is really because most men don't listen to a woman anyway. And because there will always be some guys out there thinking about sex and missing the message.
@1692mar If you honestly believe that is the reason by which God determined the man to be the leader, then should read the scriptures and form your opinions from therein and not from some feminist drivel on TV.
So to Piper the words "I suffer not a woman to teach" means "I suffer not a man to become dependent upon a woman as his shepherd." Really? Piper doesn't have a leg to stand on here. The answer is simple but he doesn't want to give it because he is more interested in brokering in "Big Christianity" than in preaching the plain and often politically incorrect truths of the word of God.
!! so whats up with piper in passion conference one week ago, i mean , in that confernce beth moore was preaching and piper to , and how can explain that,
its so very sad to see people believing in this fairy tale i weep for all of you and your lost minds becuz you couldve been an asset to society but rather you choose a differant path one that leads to the suffuring of many....
-woman arent allowed to teach men? how many female teachers are there in the U.S. i wonder..
-homosexuals of both genders are lesser humans or not human at all?
- the indoctrination of childeren?
most of the enlightend modern world views you all as american taliban...
@mordred9411 I'm a Christian, a teacher and pretty intelligent (i'd like to believe). I feel like an asset to society and that my role in society is a good one and that I have an even brighter future yet. I think people who consider homosexuals "lesser humans" are not being Christ-like. True Christians don't think like that. If by indoctrination you mean teaching, then I think most people teach their children by their own actions and according to their own beliefs.
@kimmykimko im sure your a very warm loving person:) perhaps my wording was a bit harsh but my opinion still stands: is there not a story in the bible that refers to angels visiting a man and his family (Lot and his wife and daughters i believe) at some point the men of the town demand that he give unto them these men/angels so they may sodomize them? is a child born from christian parants a christian child? im very curious as to what your answer is cuz it defines your teaching also
@mordred9411 I don't get what Lot has to do with your question: is a child born from christian parents a christian child? I can't say they are. Christianity isn't an indoctrination or something that can be learned. You can learn about it, but to experience it is a separate thing. Many ppl. think they are saved b/c they go to church and know about God. I can learn about "being in love" all day long but not truly know what it feels like till it happens to me.
@kimmykimko Lot has nothing to do with my question you wrote that "I think people who consider homosexuals "lesser humans" are not being Christ-like. True Christians don't think like that." wich is or should be a false statement becuz of the Lot story! most christians in light of that story therefore condemn it or view it as very disgusting and a stoning offense so what you view as not the behaviour of true christians is infact your opinion wich differs from what is written...
@kimmykimko oh yes almost forgot lol you gave the right answer! a child is a child an unwritten book the parants, education, friends and other variables help to write and i see your point with the being in love analogy there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path if i may say so your moral standards are very good and unlike any i have encountered whilst talking to americans very liberal and true thank you for showing me not all americans are taliban in nature
@kimmykimko what comes to mind when u read this? Tim. 2: 11. Let a woman learn in silence, with all submission. for I do not allow a woman to teach or to be assuming over the man; but let her remain in stillness.
@mordred9411 The Biblical restrictions on women's authority are in the context of the church. Has nothing to do with school teachers, etc. You're talking about something you really know nothing about. And the suffering you refer to was caused by people who were disobeying Christ but calling themselves Christians.Things like the Crusades and the Inquisition were disobedience to what Christ actually taught. If every person on earth really obeyed Christ, suffering would almost disappear.
@nrolett really friend im sry but i do not mingle in topics i know nothing about
Tim. 2: 11. Let a woman learn in silence, with all submission: 12. for I do not allow a woman to teach or to be assuming over the man; but let her remain in stillness.
there is no other interpretation possible with this and there are many more examples just like it and if u might think i take things out of context i advise you to review the txt as a whole do you believe all the bible says word for word?
@mordred9411 the subject is not women teaching in a secular college etc, it pertains to a church body. why do people always think bible applies to the world? where do people come up with this stuff?
I believe that the Bible is 100% truth, and I believe that God made women and men equal, while at the same time creating them with different, wonderfully awesome characteristics of Himself. Some things I don't understand, like this subject, but I want to understand, and like I said- I believe the Bible is 100% truth, and it does say this in the Bible. So I pray that Christ would help me understand.
@jujusaysso Illustration:Apples and oranges are different.Doesn't mean one is better than the other.One may be more suited to a specific purpose(apple pie vs. orange pie), but they are not unequal in inherent value.Men and women are equal in value, but different. God wants men to be the leaders in the church, but the New Testament does NOT teach that men are better than woman.That is just the roles he assigned.Trust God's wisdom, not the so-called "enlightened" who want a genderless society.
I totally disagree with him 100% on this....as previously stated women should be silent...I went to one church where women were not even allowed to say amen...so...
Men wants to be the boss, but every man who is married, or is in a relationship with a women, knows wery well that it is the women who is the boss. And it is suppose to be that way. Because women can think more organized. They tell men what to do in order to run the family as efficient as possible. Men are hunters. We roar, and pulls the trigger. Brings home the deer, but the woman is organized, tell us to hunt one more. They are the natural communication center. It is best that way.
@jallaguri You are talking absolute nonsense and using evolutionary fairy tale drivel to define the roles of a man and woman. Well, I sue the Bible to discover the roles of the genders! Also, 'the women is the boss' - If you can't speak English properly, then what chance have you got in successfully bringing up educated children? From your narrative, it is safe to say that you are the type of woman every mother warns her son about! And for the record. I have always led in a relationship. Always!
@GordonCope I'm a man, not a woman. However, my comment was suppose to be slightly humoristic, but my wife work with child welfare, and know way better than me how to raise our kids. Just by being a male does not mean that I know better than her. And I, and my kids have no problems with that - we are doing great. So stop being so scared your wife know better than you do - they mostly often do know better. Like it or not. Read the Bible with an open mind, maybe you will understand it better.
@GordonCope Secondly: I am a Norwegian. Speak and write Norwegian perfectly. My english, however, is another story. Not bad, but not great. Stop judging before you know better. Typically a male way to respond...I can recognize myself in exactly that - I shoot before I ask :-))
@vikingsfan51 Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. ... Christians are not called to follow the 'politically correct' socially damning practises of the world, but to follow the Word of God in love. The problem is that you don't want to accept the truth.
I've noticed the comments of alot of rebellious women who wish that they could have authority over men and the church. Women, you are in error, and if some woman preacher or liberal sissy man told you otherwise, they have mislead you. "To the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you." -Gen.3:16
I am a woman and I do not have any problem with this. It does say in the Bible that we shouldn't have authority over men (eg. as shepherds/pastors in church). We have different roles, so it's not demeaning at all. We're not less than men, we're just called into different things. It's the beauty of gender differences as made by God.
@poshwanders06 Amen sister. That is exactly right. The genders are equal, but simply have different roles. It's a shame that Satan has planted the seed of political feminism in the church to try to change God's perfect way of carrying out our roles in this life on earth.
get into the right word Jesus said in gal 3 there is no differance between wemen and man as far as in christ we are not under the law but under Grace !!!!!
@blessedwithoutmeasur that is so out of context and you are perverting God's Word! What you have done is the same as a homosexual saying his lifestyle is OK because in another scripture it says, ' God is love'. The scriptures also talk about different members - foot, hand, eye etc.... In either case the scriptures are explicit about women leading the church!
@GordonCope No galation is talking there about being under the law in the contex, And what is this homo thing? woah you are way out of line , are you saved? then you are Christs wemen men are in Christ !!!! hello it is not a woman man thing, its are you in Christ nothing else matters,
@blessedwithoutmeasur I assume English is not your first language because a) my previous comment and context was very clear and b) your spelling, grammar and context are all incorrect. You pick and chose a scripture out of context in order to suit your belief, but in doing so you ignore other scriptures, which contradict your belief. You clearly have itching ears for false teaching and doctrine.
@GordonCope If you read it in contex youll find that all of gal is talking about being under the law verses faith, if your understanding is good you can read, and if you have a understanding of the word, so will see that both male female in christ there is nothing differant between them, we are all covered by the blood and we are in a differant time then they were, ther is no suit to belive what you want it is in ,God's Word, Read it
@blessedwithoutmeasur Rather than twisting the scriptures to your own destruction you ought to heed what the Word actually says 1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1 Timothy 2 does not say that it is OK to listen to a woman teach as long as she is not an elder. It says it is wrong for her to teach men. It is a question of appropriateness, not capability. Women capable of teaching are to teach other women (Titus 2:3-4). Jesus submitted to his human parents even though He could have run the family better than they. It's a matter of what God considers appropriate, not a matter of capability.
As a theological student, I understand the Scriptural argument for this position, its clear that Piper is using 1 Timoth 2:12, but unfortunately his Psychology is highly flawed. He is a theologian and should leave the Psychology to those that specialize in it. It's problematic to say things like that about gender because the research just doesn't bear it out. I've spent two years researching the women's issue from a Hermeneutical and theological standpoint, and respectfully disagree with him.
If you are going to be someone's shepherd, whether male or female, please do it with the aim of making them independent enough to seek out their own truth. No doubt you will respond saying the bible has the truth. So let them find it for themselves without your guidance, and without the guidance of any of the competition (ie JWs, Mormons, etc.)
this is a touchy subject. way i look at it. We are born into what ever gender god sees holy for the wellbeing of humanity. its our dutty to be manly is your a man. its your dutty to be girly if your a girl. men shouldnt have femine views on things cause women do think different than man and that is holy. im all for women rights. but we shouldnt look at her as a pastor because her womenhood will be in her text. ultimately. follow christ and stay loyal to your gender.
@Darwinsman I am sorry but you missed the point of that. It is right for him to slaughter women and children because he is the giver of life. There is nothing he can do that is unjust for he is the one who created, therefore what he gives he can take away. Not even his only son was spared.
@Darwinsman A lot of major scientists have left evolution behind, for it has never been proven and has a lot of issues. The only thing that has been proven is smallscale descent with modification, but no species jumping that would bring us all from one origin. These guys aren't creationists either, a lot of them aren't even Christian. At the end of the day where do you gain your purpose in life?
@Darwinsman If you actually read the bible not taking things out of context, and going to the people who are learned in the scriptures if you don't understand why God commits some acts, then you will see that it is really a book of love and sacrifice. I know my God, and I know he pushes me to love my enemies, and everyone else for that matter unconditionally. God bless you, trust me I used to be in your shoes, and all I held inside was apathy.
Here's the main thing from this guys. We CAN learn from women. They are JUST AS competent and INTELLIGENT. Like John said, it's not obscene! And it shouldn't be something that makes our self-righteous heart squirm in its seat. But we need to understand that in God's perfect plan, there are roles that men and women play to build the kingdom. And there is no role that is more glorified or less dignified, which is why we need to RESPECT the roles that women are given.
lazyazn147 3 days ago
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awhitesoul2012 3 days ago
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So to Piper the words "I suffer not a woman to teach" means "I suffer not a man to become dependent upon a woman as his shepherd." Really? Piper doesn't have an exegetical leg to stand on here.
theearstohear 4 days ago
permitting women to have authority over men..
phil4508 5 days ago
What a bunch of crap! Jesus (Yeshua) even had women in his circles. Mary Magdelene was one of his disciples, outside the traditional twelve. There is more to the Bible than the 66 books that were "authorized" by the Catholic church. More to control the masses by controlling belief and thought. What a shame.
AmericanCryer 1 week ago
hahaha
Pynkrobot 1 week ago
its not society that is Gods word it is first timothy and more that are GODS QUALIFICATIONS.
Savethelostones 1 week ago
people just bring in civilization to spiritual stuff and then get all upset when told/pointed to act out what the Bible says
too4ny 1 week ago
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All have sinned and greatly offended the Holy God of the bible.! The just punishment is death then hell. because God is good He cannot let sin go unpunished. He will by no means clear the guilty. Gods will is that all come to repentence He became a man Jesus Christ suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His lifes blood now He can legally dismiss your case. you must repent turn from your sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your eternal salvation.
mamainmancj 2 weeks ago
I love Piper How he is so loving to God and drunk on the Spirit!!
therealglorious 2 weeks ago
The feminization of our society is the CURSE God allows for us to happen because we are REBEL to his holy word. Women are given more and more authority over men in almost every field and HERE is the curse : men are being psychologically castrated and made unable to be in charge and be the HEAD .
GOD knows what manhood and womanhood are and how they function and dysfunction . We know so litte actually but we are too foolish and rebel to follow his PERFECT paths about gender roles. SHAME on us .
framboise595 2 weeks ago 4
@framboise595 That is also why there are so many dysfunctional families around now because the woman thinks she's on even keel with the man.
xCrucifyTheFleshx 2 weeks ago
@xCrucifyTheFleshx
Yes you're so right. But it's so shameful that christianity buys into feminism. I cannot belive there can be such thing as "christian feminism". We cannot fight the world but we HAVE TO fight what is in the church . Our brothers must fight the feminist enemy and DEFEAT it with God's help.
framboise595 1 week ago
@framboise595 I'm sorry, but I can't agree. Women are systematically oppressed in a society that treats men as the measure of things. Jesus loves the oppressed and binds up their wounds, so we cannot possibly call those who seek to free the oppressed the 'feminist enemy', however much we might disagree with them.
Athelstan87 1 week ago
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@framboise595 I'm sorry, but I can't agree. Women are systematically oppressed in a society that treats men as the measure of things. Jesus loves the oppressed and binds up their wounds, so we cannot possibly call those who seek to free the oppressed the 'feminist enemy', however much we might disagree with them.
Athelstan87 1 week ago
@framboise595 Yes,it´s an illness in society,causes so much demage in relationships and ppl´s lives.In past,men misused their position of stronger sex and treated women with wrong,taking power over them.That is not what God says they should do,which is to love their wifes as Jesus loves the church,protect them,be the head=take responsibility,be wise,bold and strong for both.Without knowing God and His principals,women protect themselves this agressive way and men submitt.This causes the curse.
MaranathaMaranatha 5 days ago
@MaranathaMaranatha
Sorry but I don't agree . Men who take power over women are perfectly right .Read Genesis 3:16 "He SHALL rule over thee". God commanded men to do this knowing perfectly that women would not submit and would usurp male authority after the fall (CURSE).
Women don't respect their heads ,actually they don't respect anything, whether marriage , name , hierarchy .NOTHING. There is something rebel within women which links them to Satan.
framboise595 5 days ago
@framboise595 Yes,men were made to be the head.And treat women with respect. Read Ephesians 5th chapter. Same as Jesus is the head of the church. How Jesus treats you, you should treat women,with love
MaranathaMaranatha 5 days ago
@MaranathaMaranatha
I'm not a man. I just realize how corrupt my gender now that it's not kept in check by men anymore . It's really awful. Of course men should treat women with love but God reinforced male authority (He shall rule over thee) because of the fall ,knowing that women would not submit normally and will struggle for power instead .
Realize that even in the church , women just refuse to submit and all they want is usurping the male role. Because of this ,men have to react.
framboise595 4 days ago 5
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MaranathaMaranatha 5 days ago
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@framboise595 women are no more linked to Satan than men. Adam who should have been watching over Eve, did not do it and participates on what happened. As the head, it is his responsibility
MaranathaMaranatha 5 days ago
I don't find what he says obscene. Obsolete, sad, wretched, yes. Obscene? No. If I'm techning something to you now please forget that I am a women - or will you check my name before you look at the post? Just the way things are is the time old stance of those who are in power. Women are free and strong and wise. Of course men can learn from women (if they aren't as narrow minded as this man). He is too old now to understand how silly his stance is. Yes, silly is the right word.
dianagordon6 2 weeks ago
@dianagordon6 Perhaps if you claim to be teaching something you should spell the word right. He never says that women are wise or free or strong (the Bible claims all of those things for a woman). He never says that men can't learn from women, in fact, he explicitly says that they can. Beyond that, he says that the Bible says they should not be the permanent authority, in the context of the Church, over a man, which is true. So I think your problem is more with the Bible.
dillon14593 2 weeks ago
i cannot stand them. i will not listen to anymore women teachers. and i am NOT a misogynist.
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
this turtle needs to stop teaching this drivel
grryan1 4 weeks ago
I came to this page to see what kind of people would even ask this question. Woman haters!
TreasureOne 1 month ago
what a gimp
SuperMisterjonny 1 month ago
The funny thing here, is that you all think you're right, when in fact you may have all got it completely wrong. Everyone interprets the bible differently, and no one has the right to tell someone else they are wrong. Now, just before you all go on the offensive, remember I didn't ACTUALLY give an opinion on if its okay for Women to preach to men.
dinobert06 1 month ago
@dinobert06 "Everyone interprets the bible differently, and no one has the right to tell someone else they are wrong" and so, after it u say "when in fact you may have all got it completely wrong." Do u know what we call it? Hypocrite. If u maintain this position, then, ur a blasphemer too. Why? Jesus gave interpretations among the Old Testament. Perhaps He was wrong? Well, He had a diferent interpretation from the pharisees and He said they were wrong.(Of course not)
Sergiofilhopb 1 month ago
@Sergiofilhopb Did you actually read what I said? "when in fact you MAY *EMPHASIS ON MAY* have got it completely wrong. Which means, I didn't give an opinion on if anyone was actually wrong. So, next time you have a problem with what someone has said, try not calling them senseless names.
dinobert06 1 month ago
@dinobert06 The problem with your statement is it leaves for anyone to have an interpretation making the bible UN-clear and making the word of God powerless. They reason we have many interpretations is because we have Christians who interpret words or passeges that please the flesh. Like the word prosperity. To a christian living it Christ he does not think money first. To a fallen carnal man, his first reaction is money wealth and health. Thus applying meaning to a text.
DefendTheGospel007 4 weeks ago
@DefendTheGospel007 I agree with you. But no one has the right to tell someone else that their interpretation is wrong, or more wrong than theirs. One person might think they've got it completely right, and then we find out that's NOT what God meant. Everyone is entitled to their own opionion, that's the beauty of having a relationship with God, everyone's is personal, different and their own.
dinobert06 4 weeks ago
Theres so many famous women in the gosspil times who testified for God, showed strength in faith, were in God's favor yet the bible didnt include many of those storys, then men prob. said heaven forbid.
Missytrilakes 1 month ago
@Missytrilakes This is a pragmatic argument, they witnessed for Jesus, but they werent "pastors, apostles, masters" or this kind of thing. There's not a single verse for it.
Sergiofilhopb 1 month ago
In biblical times women babled in church, didnt have much knowledge about questions, etc, thats prob. why women couldnt learn, be taught, and were repressed, that prob. why Paul said what he said about women...........another cultural issue.
Missytrilakes 1 month ago
@Missytrilakes No, never a cultural issue, Paul arguments using Genesis facts, such as sin coming through Eve, and what happened when the snake asked what would happen if they did eat the fruit? "And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."(Genesis 3:3 King James)
She had knowledge, but not the authority
Sergiofilhopb 1 month ago
@Sergiofilhopb You are taking the Old Testament literarily, which no mainstream Biblical scholars do. The Adam and Eve story is an allegory.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
@strawberryseason you can not be a Christian and say what you just said.
agapeguide 1 month ago
@agapeguide I am a Christian. I attended Catholic school where I was taught by priests and nuns; we learned that many of the stories in the Old Testament are metaphors and allegories. There was no literal Adam and Eve. Most mainstream denominations accept evolution as a fact. It is only fundamentalist churches who deny it.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
@strawberryseason Well I wouldn't say it's only fundamentilist churches... I go to a normal, every day church who doesn't believe it's fact. I dont' think it's fact either, and I'm not fundamentalist in the slightist. So, maybe it's just Australia ^^
dinobert06 1 month ago
@dinobert06 The United Methodist Church, the Episcopal Church in the USA, the United Church of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church, and many Lutheran, Presbyterian and Congregational Churches accept the science of evolution, and do not view evolution as incompatible with the existence of God.
strawberryseason 4 weeks ago
@strawberryseason I agree with what you're saying about 'evolution not being incompatible with Christianity", they ARE compatible. However, I don't know if every Christian church would really put evoltion ahead of the Creation theroy. I think it's more 'directed evolution'. From my experience anyway. I've been in Methodist, raised in Baptist and my husband was raised in Catholisim, and we'd never heard of anything like what you said before. That's why I commented :).
dinobert06 4 weeks ago
@dinobert06 The position of the Catholic Church is that God is the Prime Mover, that God exists before matter exists. The Catholic Church does not dispute evolution. They accept "theistic evolution," that evolution was set in place and guided by God.
strawberryseason 4 weeks ago
@strawberryseason well if you were taught that adam and eve were not a man and a woman then you were simply taught fraudulent error. so you beleive everything you are taught by a man and a woman,, priest and a nun? dear lord no way. it is not only fundamentalist churches who deny what you say. you have a moronic stunted view of the world. it is much bigger than you or i, or your priest and nun. i cant believe there are still people like you that can type.
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith Your personal insults are very unkind & off-topic. If you call yourself a Christian, you should behave in a Christian way. The Catholic Church's official approach to the Bible, ever since Vatican ll, is called the "Historical-Critical Method." This approach to Scripture takes into account historical & cultural context, and acknowledges the use of literary forms such as allegories in Scripture. Adam and Eve is a just story. The Church acknowledges the validity of evolution.
strawberryseason 4 weeks ago
@strawberryseason so you tell me m. moses, how is a christian supposed to act? your way? i think it is farcical to accept as fact what some nun or a priest has taught you. no one wants to be told what they were taught. who really cares? if you pronounce that as fact then you are open and fair game to insults. i want to know what you personally believe, not what someone told you, dear lord we have enough of that crap. i dont accept what catholicism teaches on any level.
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith there history, as far back as it goes, it to go around adapting whatever was accepted in any community in europe. from absolutions on ad infinitum. it is fine to accept certain biblical events and teachings, re the book of revelation as metaphoristic, but clearly there was first a real man and a real woman. to deny that would be idiocy. some of these hair splitting theories and what is accepted by this scholar and that one simply do NOT matter.
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith If you think it is appropriate to insult people over issues of Biblical interpretation, then you are a Christian in name only, not in deed.
strawberryseason 4 weeks ago
@strawberryseason i dot not care what is appropriate. these posts are merely bathroom graffiti. that is all they are ultimately
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@agapeguide
yes you can. if you follow christ you are christian. what it means to be christian beyond that is something that everyone defines individually. you have no authority on it, no commandments from god. Catholic doctrine(which he got slightly wrong) is that you may believe in a literal or non literal interpretation of genesis so long as you believe that god did create man in his image.
If genesis is literal we were all born from incest.
NoTrueFace1 3 weeks ago
@Sergiofilhopb she was wrong for even engaging in a conversation with the serpent! In addition, she trapped herself in the devils snare when she omitted Gods word. The ALMIGHTY actually said: “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Perhaps if she would not have made it such a "little" issue and would have restated the WORD OF GOD, things would be different.
agapeguide 1 month ago
Funny, after Jesus rose again from death, the first person he seen or talked to was a woman and he said to her go and tell..................
Missytrilakes 1 month ago
@Missytrilakes And so what? Did He said "U'll be an apostle"? There's not a premise to support ur inference.
Sergiofilhopb 1 month ago
This guy is sort of like a Muslim Fundamentalist in his views toward women.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
@strawberryseason Do you actually know what Muslim Fundamentalists believe? There are few people that have as much respect for women as John Piper.
followbygrace 1 month ago
@followbygrace John Piper believes that it is not appropriate for men to have a woman spiritual leader. However, he does not find it inappropriate for a woman to have a male spiritual leader or pastor. He believes that males are on a higher level/superior to females. This is also what Muslim Fundamentalists believe. He has a lot in common with them.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
@strawberryseason Well if you were a Christian and knew the scriptures as God breathed 2 Timothy 3:16 and unable to be broken (contradicted) John 10:35, then you would accept the following scripture rather than equate God's word to Muslim fundamentalism, which no doubt, is a subject in which you have no knowledge also, 'Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.' 1 Corinthians 14:34
GordonCope 1 month ago
@GordonCope I am a Christian, but not a Fundamentalist. If you do not accept female pastors or leaders then you must find yourself among a very few & probably live in the South.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
@strawberryseason i do not live in the south, have lived in 12 different states, worked with catholics, methodists, episcopalians, etc, in the air force chaplaincy in california, evangelical bible schools, (dont agree with all they say either) and as a personal preference do not listen nor accept a woman as a pastor,, teacher, maybe, as this is nowhere mentioned in the new testament. and i am NOT a misogynist. it goes like this, jesus the head of the man, man the head of the woman.
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith paul is speaking to the gentiles here and his context is the church. if the woman disagress with man, they take it home and discuss it. also paul has stated " i am not saying the lord "told" me this, this is my conviction(paraphrasing) in other passages on certain subjects. when someone has an axe to grind they simply say "the lord himself said this 17 times in scripture), but they dont say "Paul said this 4 times". woman dont cover their head because of angels do they?
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith Man is not the head of woman. They are equal. If you believe differently, then you will have a hard time coping with living in a democracy, where people have equal rights.
strawberryseason 4 weeks ago
@strawberryseason we are talking about a church situation, what we are talking abou t madam, is if you and your wife are on your knees praying about a decision that must be made, then it is the duty of the man to make the final decision. i do not know why youare talking about democracy or a republic. we are talking about a church situation madam. i do not see why this is so hard to understand for you. a marriage is not a democracy. so who casts the decideing vote in a marriage madam?
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith marriage is the same as a church situation. if you both disagree then it is time to part. you or he will stay together ifyou want to be married ifyou both disagree i am talking about biblical principles applied to marriage. biblical principles applied to marrige is rare i think. we are talking BIBLE, not democracy. who even mentioned democracy? do you think the bible isa democracy are younot supposed to be subject in some sense toa pastor? you cant walk up and starttalkin
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith It is not "up to the man to make the final decision." Those types of patriarchal marriages are destructive, particularly to the children.
strawberryseason 4 weeks ago
@strawberryseason you have no evidence that a "patriachal marriage is destructive" to anyone. this is merely your opinion. people who believe that the bible concerns them on this area dont have a poblem with it. so, tell us, your eminence, who makes a decision? look, if both the woman and the man agree that one of them has to make a decision then who are YOU to say it is a destructive thing? you give out nothing but a disagreement. many couples have and do itthis way. where is your experience?
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith i dont think you have any. or you would already talk about your spouse and how it has worked. i marvel at people as you, that type one definitive sentence and it really does not say much. it seems your experience is negative. you sound as a sage in matters of bible and marriage, but my intution is that you are not. but, of course only the pope can interpet for you.
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith I do research and I have won many awards for my research. I have an MA in sociology and am working on a PhD. I was inducted into Phi Beta Kappa, which is the most prestigious honor society in the US. I am not just coming on here and blowing hot air, like some.
strawberryseason 4 weeks ago
@strawberryseason good for you! however, i think it is a jump to say that if a couple choose to believe the bible in their marriage and they follow a biblical path, there are those who do this. they "agree" that in difficult decisions that would break up a marriage , sometimes one has to "give in". thus, the man is the head of them both. this does not have to be a patriarchal thing. ifyou are a sociologist surely you know of power struggles in marriages that destroy the union.
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith on the other side of the coin, i knew a man and his wife, both pastors, and she definitely looked and acted as if she "wore the pants ", she had an executive job, and he stayed at home. she did not preach. he did., but, you sure could tell she came from a matriarchal family. these can be facts. there are families with sisters/brothers that have had strong women, and "weak" or passive men. my family is matriarchal. the grandmother never said a harsh word, very meek and mild
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith, but under that meek and mild was a strong constitution the grandfather smoked and drank some wouldnt go to church, but she went all the time, the four daughters ( my aunts)were very strong, the men(unlces) rather weak. it can work both ways you know. where is the balance? the balance is the agreement by the husband and wife. which is what my point is about.
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith What studies have found, is that the way that the two spouses express themselves, when in conflict, is very important to the survival of the marriage. If they maintain mutual respect, disagreements (which are inevitable in all close relationships) can be worked through. The power struggles you refer to, yes, are very destructive. Relationships break down when one or both of the spouses have a communication style that involves the expression of contempt for the partner.
strawberryseason 3 weeks ago
@strawberryseason So quick question, are going to die putting faith and trust in what man says(Teachers,scientists,doctors,Leaders, etc)? Man also finds Homosexuality and abortion perfectly normal, is that all of a sudden the end all be all to your answers in life? Psalm 118:8 It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in people. Jeremiah 17:9 "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?
realcoolboy17 3 weeks ago
@realcoolboy17 Every church uses Scriptural interpretation. There is no church that takes the Bible exactly literarally. If so, then no Christian would eat shellfish, or shave his beard, nor accumlate wealth. Also, having multiple wives as well as owning slaves is condoned in some parts of the Bible. That doesn't make those things right. What is necessary is thoughtful exegesis, the critical analysis of Biblical passages by theologians or other Biblical scholars.
strawberryseason 3 weeks ago
@strawberryseason Mark 7:18 (NIV) "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'?
Mark 7:19 (NIV) For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." If you read your bible you would know all food for the glory of God is clean, stop making excuses, if the bible says something it means something. Take that false doctrine before the Lord all you want it would be your problem.
realcoolboy17 3 weeks ago
@strawberryseason Also the greatest commandment in the New Testament is what? Matthew 22:36-40: “ Then a lawyer asked our Lord Jesus, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” Jesus' answer “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets
realcoolboy17 3 weeks ago
@strawberryseason * God has pleasure in the prosperity of His servant. (Psalm 35:27)
* "The blessing of the Lord makes one rich." (Proverbs 10:22)
* God is not selfish or stingy but "gives us richly all things to enjoy." (1 Timothy 6:17)
* "The earth is full of the goodness of the Lord." (Psalm 33:5) Does that sound like god wants us poor?
realcoolboy17 3 weeks ago
@realcoolboy17 Regarding accumulation of wealth, Matthew 19:24. "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." This has crystal-clear meaning, and it is from the mouth of Jesus. For those who take every word of the Bible literally, like John Piper, it is interesting how they ignore this statement, yet put much stock into Paul's admonishment that women are not supposed to preach in church.
strawberryseason 3 weeks ago
@strawberryseason So.. let me get this straight from this PARABLE you have concluded that Jesus wants none of his people to prosper? "Say it ain't so Joe", It's common sense that it would be harder for a man blessed with immense amounts of worldly possessions to turn from there carnal ways and walk in spirit and truth., but need I remind you of all the great men of God who were prosperous Kings who ruled the lands. Because they pleased God they were given much things.
realcoolboy17 3 weeks ago
@realcoolboy17 Matthew 19:23-24 is not a parable. It is a direct teaching. Jesus's parables are stories to illustrate moral or ethical principals, i.e. the Prodigal Son & the Good Samaritan. It seems that John Piper and some others, who take every part of the Bible literally, dismiss Matthew 19:23-24. They do not sell their possessions and give them to the poor. I am not saying that people shouldn't be wealthy. I am only saying that this teaching by Jesus is at least as important as Paul's.
strawberryseason 3 weeks ago
@strawberryseason If thats the case we both belief the same thing.
realcoolboy17 3 weeks ago
@strawberryseason What Jesus is saying in Matthew 19 is that it is impossible for anyone to get to heaven, it would take a miracle. He's uses it to highlight that it takes miracle to get to heaven, not anything we can do ourselves. Of course a camel can not fit through the eye of a needle! That is ridiculous, so is a rich man getting into heaven. Jesus is not saying "give up everything you have" to us, he is saying he can save us but we cannot save ourselves.
JoshieWard 3 weeks ago
@strawberryseason "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law" Follow the commandments through grace and faith(not trying to obtain or sustain salvation, it's already there for those who believe in Christ Jesus as their Lord and savior), ounce you love the Lord with all you heart everything else follows. God bless.
realcoolboy17 3 weeks ago
@strawberryseason I encourage you to (if you haven't already) accept Jesus Christ as your only Lord and savior so your sin can be cleansed with his holy blood that was graciously shed for you.
realcoolboy17 3 weeks ago
@realcoolboy17 I appreciate your concern for my spiritual wellbeing, but I think you should keep your focus on your own thoughts and deeds. Examine your own history and how it has affected you. That will help you be a better citizen of your community. You don't know me at all; you are making assumptions, and parading your righteousness. Jesus said not to do that.
strawberryseason 3 weeks ago
@strawberryseason I have no righteousness, all my righteousness is as filthy rags, im only here to spread the true and living word of God and spread the good news of Christ. If God called me to be selfish for his kingdom and only worry about my own spiritual well being I would not need to be saved (lol). What you call parading is simply just truth, funny thing about truth is you don't need to agree for it to be truth :). God bless
realcoolboy17 3 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith Marriages where the husband and wife are equal partners are more likely to last, and they provide healthier families for children to be in. Reams of sociological literature back this up. If you want to have children with neuroses and violence problems, then have them raised with a patriarchal father.
strawberryseason 4 weeks ago
Jesus also said it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. I wonder if you take that literally, too.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
@strawberryseason How are we supposed to interpret it?
Averageknowitall 1 month ago
@Averageknow The key is Paul’s epistle in Galatians 3:28: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” There is much controversy among Biblical scholars regarding the exegesis of 1 Timothy 2:12, calling for women to not teach and to remain silent in church. Some scholars say that the text is about the specific situation in Ephesus, where the local church was being torn apart by false teachers. The enduring truth is in Galatians 3:28.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
@strawberryseason no that is a particular wall in a certain place in the holy land,, dont remember where.
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@strawberryseason He is not being "fundamentalist" and definitively not a muslim, he is being biblical in some things. Stop ur femininism.
Sergiofilhopb 1 month ago
@Sergiofilhopb "Stop ur feminism"? Stop trying to control other people. It's futile, and you will end up with strain on your heart.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
Sorry but you cant choose to follow some twisted laws against homosexuality and then ignore clearly anti-female ones, accept gay marriage or start stoning women. ...or forever be a hypocrit.
animesis 1 month ago
Does John Piper regard 1 Timothy 2 as only applying to the church and religious instruction, or does he believe it is speaking more generally? For instance, is it permissible for women to teach at university or other forms of schools?
SecularAstronomer 1 month ago
@SecularAstronomer It is in a cultic/church body circunstance.
Sergiofilhopb 1 month ago
As a woman, I would say that it is really because most men don't listen to a woman anyway. And because there will always be some guys out there thinking about sex and missing the message.
1692mar 1 month ago
@1692mar If you honestly believe that is the reason by which God determined the man to be the leader, then should read the scriptures and form your opinions from therein and not from some feminist drivel on TV.
GordonCope 1 month ago
So to Piper the words "I suffer not a woman to teach" means "I suffer not a man to become dependent upon a woman as his shepherd." Really? Piper doesn't have a leg to stand on here. The answer is simple but he doesn't want to give it because he is more interested in brokering in "Big Christianity" than in preaching the plain and often politically incorrect truths of the word of God.
theearstohear 1 month ago
!! so whats up with piper in passion conference one week ago, i mean , in that confernce beth moore was preaching and piper to , and how can explain that,
thefirstandthelast7 1 month ago
no one whats to "know their role"
kimmykimko 1 month ago
its so very sad to see people believing in this fairy tale i weep for all of you and your lost minds becuz you couldve been an asset to society but rather you choose a differant path one that leads to the suffuring of many....
-woman arent allowed to teach men? how many female teachers are there in the U.S. i wonder..
-homosexuals of both genders are lesser humans or not human at all?
- the indoctrination of childeren?
most of the enlightend modern world views you all as american taliban...
mordred9411 1 month ago 2
@mordred9411 I'm a Christian, a teacher and pretty intelligent (i'd like to believe). I feel like an asset to society and that my role in society is a good one and that I have an even brighter future yet. I think people who consider homosexuals "lesser humans" are not being Christ-like. True Christians don't think like that. If by indoctrination you mean teaching, then I think most people teach their children by their own actions and according to their own beliefs.
So.... whats the problem?
kimmykimko 1 month ago
@kimmykimko im sure your a very warm loving person:) perhaps my wording was a bit harsh but my opinion still stands: is there not a story in the bible that refers to angels visiting a man and his family (Lot and his wife and daughters i believe) at some point the men of the town demand that he give unto them these men/angels so they may sodomize them? is a child born from christian parants a christian child? im very curious as to what your answer is cuz it defines your teaching also
mordred9411 1 month ago
@mordred9411 I don't get what Lot has to do with your question: is a child born from christian parents a christian child? I can't say they are. Christianity isn't an indoctrination or something that can be learned. You can learn about it, but to experience it is a separate thing. Many ppl. think they are saved b/c they go to church and know about God. I can learn about "being in love" all day long but not truly know what it feels like till it happens to me.
Maybe a weak argument to some.
kimmykimko 1 month ago
@kimmykimko Lot has nothing to do with my question you wrote that "I think people who consider homosexuals "lesser humans" are not being Christ-like. True Christians don't think like that." wich is or should be a false statement becuz of the Lot story! most christians in light of that story therefore condemn it or view it as very disgusting and a stoning offense so what you view as not the behaviour of true christians is infact your opinion wich differs from what is written...
mordred9411 1 month ago
@kimmykimko oh yes almost forgot lol you gave the right answer! a child is a child an unwritten book the parants, education, friends and other variables help to write and i see your point with the being in love analogy there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path if i may say so your moral standards are very good and unlike any i have encountered whilst talking to americans very liberal and true thank you for showing me not all americans are taliban in nature
mordred9411 1 month ago
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@kimmykimko what comes to mind when u read this? Tim. 2: 11. Let a woman learn in silence, with all submission. for I do not allow a woman to teach or to be assuming over the man; but let her remain in stillness.
mordred9411 1 month ago
@mordred9411 The Biblical restrictions on women's authority are in the context of the church. Has nothing to do with school teachers, etc. You're talking about something you really know nothing about. And the suffering you refer to was caused by people who were disobeying Christ but calling themselves Christians.Things like the Crusades and the Inquisition were disobedience to what Christ actually taught. If every person on earth really obeyed Christ, suffering would almost disappear.
nrolett 1 month ago
@nrolett really friend im sry but i do not mingle in topics i know nothing about
Tim. 2: 11. Let a woman learn in silence, with all submission: 12. for I do not allow a woman to teach or to be assuming over the man; but let her remain in stillness.
there is no other interpretation possible with this and there are many more examples just like it and if u might think i take things out of context i advise you to review the txt as a whole do you believe all the bible says word for word?
mordred9411 1 month ago
@mordred9411 the subject is not women teaching in a secular college etc, it pertains to a church body. why do people always think bible applies to the world? where do people come up with this stuff?
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
I believe that the Bible is 100% truth, and I believe that God made women and men equal, while at the same time creating them with different, wonderfully awesome characteristics of Himself. Some things I don't understand, like this subject, but I want to understand, and like I said- I believe the Bible is 100% truth, and it does say this in the Bible. So I pray that Christ would help me understand.
jujusaysso 1 month ago
@jujusaysso Illustration:Apples and oranges are different.Doesn't mean one is better than the other.One may be more suited to a specific purpose(apple pie vs. orange pie), but they are not unequal in inherent value.Men and women are equal in value, but different. God wants men to be the leaders in the church, but the New Testament does NOT teach that men are better than woman.That is just the roles he assigned.Trust God's wisdom, not the so-called "enlightened" who want a genderless society.
nrolett 1 month ago
I totally disagree with him 100% on this....as previously stated women should be silent...I went to one church where women were not even allowed to say amen...so...
wendyresqlady 1 month ago
@wendyresqlady I would ll beat the fuck out of that pastor.
thegranitebison 1 month ago
@thegranitebison you should probably stay in the nursery.
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
@jamesraymondsmith As long as you delusional, sexist cocksuckers aren't in there.
thegranitebison 3 weeks ago
Men wants to be the boss, but every man who is married, or is in a relationship with a women, knows wery well that it is the women who is the boss. And it is suppose to be that way. Because women can think more organized. They tell men what to do in order to run the family as efficient as possible. Men are hunters. We roar, and pulls the trigger. Brings home the deer, but the woman is organized, tell us to hunt one more. They are the natural communication center. It is best that way.
jallaguri 1 month ago
@jallaguri You are talking absolute nonsense and using evolutionary fairy tale drivel to define the roles of a man and woman. Well, I sue the Bible to discover the roles of the genders! Also, 'the women is the boss' - If you can't speak English properly, then what chance have you got in successfully bringing up educated children? From your narrative, it is safe to say that you are the type of woman every mother warns her son about! And for the record. I have always led in a relationship. Always!
GordonCope 1 month ago
@GordonCope I'm a man, not a woman. However, my comment was suppose to be slightly humoristic, but my wife work with child welfare, and know way better than me how to raise our kids. Just by being a male does not mean that I know better than her. And I, and my kids have no problems with that - we are doing great. So stop being so scared your wife know better than you do - they mostly often do know better. Like it or not. Read the Bible with an open mind, maybe you will understand it better.
jallaguri 1 month ago
@GordonCope Secondly: I am a Norwegian. Speak and write Norwegian perfectly. My english, however, is another story. Not bad, but not great. Stop judging before you know better. Typically a male way to respond...I can recognize myself in exactly that - I shoot before I ask :-))
jallaguri 1 month ago
Teachings like this are part of the reason why some non-Christians view Christians as being intolerant, sexist, and backwards.
vikingsfan51 2 months ago
@vikingsfan51 Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. ... Christians are not called to follow the 'politically correct' socially damning practises of the world, but to follow the Word of God in love. The problem is that you don't want to accept the truth.
GordonCope 1 month ago
This is a balanced view that gives room & expression for women but not "over" men.
PeachTube1968 2 months ago
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I've noticed the comments of alot of rebellious women who wish that they could have authority over men and the church. Women, you are in error, and if some woman preacher or liberal sissy man told you otherwise, they have mislead you. "To the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you." -Gen.3:16
You can lead woman or children, not men
gilbertshea 2 months ago
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gilbertshea 2 months ago
I am a woman and I do not have any problem with this. It does say in the Bible that we shouldn't have authority over men (eg. as shepherds/pastors in church). We have different roles, so it's not demeaning at all. We're not less than men, we're just called into different things. It's the beauty of gender differences as made by God.
poshwanders06 2 months ago 2
@poshwanders06 Amen sister. That is exactly right. The genders are equal, but simply have different roles. It's a shame that Satan has planted the seed of political feminism in the church to try to change God's perfect way of carrying out our roles in this life on earth.
GordonCope 1 month ago 8
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@beaglehawk50 Dude, take a class of exegesis, and please HERMENEUTICS!
danydidaskos 1 month ago
@GordonCope Thank you. Well said
mydestinicadventure 1 month ago
@poshwanders06 eggsactly!
ExitLeftband 1 month ago
@poshwanders06 here is wisdom
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
get into the right word Jesus said in gal 3 there is no differance between wemen and man as far as in christ we are not under the law but under Grace !!!!!
blessedwithoutmeasur 2 months ago
@blessedwithoutmeasur that is so out of context and you are perverting God's Word! What you have done is the same as a homosexual saying his lifestyle is OK because in another scripture it says, ' God is love'. The scriptures also talk about different members - foot, hand, eye etc.... In either case the scriptures are explicit about women leading the church!
GordonCope 1 month ago
@GordonCope No galation is talking there about being under the law in the contex, And what is this homo thing? woah you are way out of line , are you saved? then you are Christs wemen men are in Christ !!!! hello it is not a woman man thing, its are you in Christ nothing else matters,
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
@blessedwithoutmeasur I assume English is not your first language because a) my previous comment and context was very clear and b) your spelling, grammar and context are all incorrect. You pick and chose a scripture out of context in order to suit your belief, but in doing so you ignore other scriptures, which contradict your belief. You clearly have itching ears for false teaching and doctrine.
GordonCope 1 month ago
@GordonCope If you read it in contex youll find that all of gal is talking about being under the law verses faith, if your understanding is good you can read, and if you have a understanding of the word, so will see that both male female in christ there is nothing differant between them, we are all covered by the blood and we are in a differant time then they were, ther is no suit to belive what you want it is in ,God's Word, Read it
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
@blessedwithoutmeasur Rather than twisting the scriptures to your own destruction you ought to heed what the Word actually says 1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
GordonCope 1 month ago
Piper is only 100% wrong, other than that he's fine.
landsdown44 2 months ago
@landsdown44 now that is funny
jamesraymondsmith 4 weeks ago
But it says a woman should not preach..
JohnnyJ2x44alt 2 months ago in playlist John Pipers
Gotta love a sexist
idunnononame 2 months ago
Adam listened to his wife,and not The LordGOD.
that is why we live in an evil world.
i listen to what females say,and believe this,if they dont
follow christ,i never listen because they live in fantasy world
of how things should be according to their will.
just as satan did,and still does.
YeshuaISMessiah1 2 months ago
1 Timothy 2 does not say that it is OK to listen to a woman teach as long as she is not an elder. It says it is wrong for her to teach men. It is a question of appropriateness, not capability. Women capable of teaching are to teach other women (Titus 2:3-4). Jesus submitted to his human parents even though He could have run the family better than they. It's a matter of what God considers appropriate, not a matter of capability.
beaglehawk50 2 months ago 14
@beaglehawk50
Can the Lady Wisdom of Proverbs teach men?
quemacha 1 month ago
@beaglehawk50 Fuck off sexist dickhole.
thegranitebison 1 month ago
@beaglehawk50 Dude, take a class of exegesis, and please HERMENEUTICS!
danydidaskos 1 month ago 3
that makes sense though!!!
southernfriedpeaches 2 months ago
As a theological student, I understand the Scriptural argument for this position, its clear that Piper is using 1 Timoth 2:12, but unfortunately his Psychology is highly flawed. He is a theologian and should leave the Psychology to those that specialize in it. It's problematic to say things like that about gender because the research just doesn't bear it out. I've spent two years researching the women's issue from a Hermeneutical and theological standpoint, and respectfully disagree with him.
theologos1111 2 months ago
If you are going to be someone's shepherd, whether male or female, please do it with the aim of making them independent enough to seek out their own truth. No doubt you will respond saying the bible has the truth. So let them find it for themselves without your guidance, and without the guidance of any of the competition (ie JWs, Mormons, etc.)
roan505 2 months ago
I absolutely agree with Johns main point and concern, that a womans main authority and pastoralship over a man is erroneous.
Bynum4life 2 months ago
this is a touchy subject. way i look at it. We are born into what ever gender god sees holy for the wellbeing of humanity. its our dutty to be manly is your a man. its your dutty to be girly if your a girl. men shouldnt have femine views on things cause women do think different than man and that is holy. im all for women rights. but we shouldnt look at her as a pastor because her womenhood will be in her text. ultimately. follow christ and stay loyal to your gender.
abcjohnlock1993 2 months ago
LEGALISE GAY MARRIAGE! Gay is okay. :)
xSTITCHERx 2 months ago
@xSTITCHERx And is sinful in the eyes of God. No need to reply.
Superbee4401 2 months ago
@xSTITCHERx ??????
Bynum4life 2 months ago
I wish he had gone into detail on why it can be wrong.
TheZurinator 3 months ago
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TheZurinator 3 months ago
This just demonstrates John Piper's patronising and demeaning attitude to women.
In another one of his videos he actually states:
"It's right for god to slaughter women and children any time he pleases."
Watch?v=taYhbRm6pnU
This is what Christianity does to supposedly intelligent people and they call atheists immoral???
Darwinsman 3 months ago
@Darwinsman I am sorry but you missed the point of that. It is right for him to slaughter women and children because he is the giver of life. There is nothing he can do that is unjust for he is the one who created, therefore what he gives he can take away. Not even his only son was spared.
Izkimar12 3 months ago
@Izkimar12 I didn't miss the point. I got it that christianity is a slave religion of people mindlessly worshipping a psychopath.
As for god sacrificing his son. There was no sacrifice. It is just a myth.
Darwinsman 3 months ago
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@Darwinsman A lot of major scientists have left evolution behind, for it has never been proven and has a lot of issues. The only thing that has been proven is smallscale descent with modification, but no species jumping that would bring us all from one origin. These guys aren't creationists either, a lot of them aren't even Christian. At the end of the day where do you gain your purpose in life?
Izkimar12 3 months ago
@Darwinsman If you actually read the bible not taking things out of context, and going to the people who are learned in the scriptures if you don't understand why God commits some acts, then you will see that it is really a book of love and sacrifice. I know my God, and I know he pushes me to love my enemies, and everyone else for that matter unconditionally. God bless you, trust me I used to be in your shoes, and all I held inside was apathy.
Izkimar12 3 months ago 2