its not about music julio14335.....no matter how beautiful one sounds in reciting any scripture and not right with God or walking accroding to His ways, than his recitation is in vain....God looks at the heart not music.
I love you creeman 007, you are the first Christians i have ever hard responding to a question without using negetives words,, thank you for that comment may God continue to guide us to the right part...
I have a question if the trinity is so central to our salvation why doesn't the Bible mention it frequently. In fact it doesn't even mention it once. However, god mentions his oneness countless number of times in the bible. Give me a SINGLE example of the trinity in the bible. I know one verse that every christian is going to spew however Christian scholars agree that even that SINGLE (only 1 possible verse) is fabricated.
@iqratbismirabika So true friend. The word Trinity is nowhere in the Bible either. I always think about what Jesus (peace be upon him) supposedly stated in Mark 12:29 when he was answering the scribe's question. He didn't inform the scribe that he was part of a trinity and how important it was to believe he was part of a trinity-- for his salvation. Here Jesus (pbuh) stated that the first commandment, "Hear O Israel, the Lord OUR God is ONE Lord..." That obviously is relevant
@1CorinthiansCH1V22 yes and parts of earth worshipping paganism are incorporated in to christianity till this day just look at the easter bunny. a symbol of fertility
I am sorry to say but all Islamic debaters simply raise their voices and declare "this is so" without the proper presentation and respect for the history...they just ignore historical and linguistic laws.
@SquareBear116 it gives me a brain freeze, i failed math, but i do know 3 dont = 1 and vice versa. its common sense to think that God Is One, The Creator if us and everything that exists. we should worship him. Period point blank
@ViciousBeats16 Is God bounded by mathematics? No. Doctrine of Trinity isn't logical nor illogical but rather alogical to are limited minds. As James White puts it, "The Trinity is not saying that there are three Beings who are one Being, nor three Persons who are one Person." Being and person are not the same words and are two different things. We Christians are worshipping ONE GOD alone, who exists eternally three coequal and persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
@ArginGerigorian He is Allah, the Creator, the Shaper out of naught, the Fashioner. His are the most beautiful names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Him, and He is the Mighty, the Wise. (24) also chapter 112 Say: He is Allah, the One! (1) Allah, the eternally Besought of all! (2) He begetteth not nor was begotten. (3) And there is none comparable unto Him. (4). Is bible anywhere near that crystal clear explanation about trinity or christ?????
It wont make sense to anybody who is spiritually discerned, only God can open the eyes of understanding, read isaiah chapter 9 vs 6 and tell me who Jesus really is....... Bare in mind this verse was written 750 BC
matter'o'fact, ima show what Islam teaches in the word salam, from islam, which both mean peace/joy/submission to that fact {they are both from each other}, n' so i pray Allah guides our created brother, dr. white to the most peaceful of states, which iz peace/pesa/shalom/smoothly....salam, amin.
james white is a professor? what an illogical man. smdh! does he even understand what "GoD" means? Matter of fact, he should let someone else speak for him, like 'SHIRK' the responsibilty of being the one to defend for Christianity. what a dummy...
rachid completely destroyed white, but the brainwashed christians attached to their pagan religion will never see it. Christianity is an insult to basic human intelligence. with that said, let me go sacrifice my cat for my dog's sins.
This was so painful to watch. Its amazing how Mr.Rashid misrepresents the Christian position. Not to mention he's severely ignorant of Church history. His point on the Catholic church proved it.
@ReliableLojic And that bit about the council of Nicea?! Aww man, He just lost all credibility there. The only good apologist Islam has is Shabir Ally.
@glower125 No, We handle the Council of Nicea quite well. Whoever says the scriptures changed at the Council of Nicea is very ignorant. Matter of Fact, The council had NOTHING to do with the gospels. It was to deal with heresies of Arius.
Christians are wrong when they say Jesus is the "Eternal Son" He is the Eternal Word that became God's Son through the incarnation. John 1 clearly says, "In the beginning was the WORD.." not "in the beginning was the Son" "and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God, the same was in the beginning with God...and the WORD became flesh...and we beheld His Glory. The glory as of the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father..." Now when He is in the flesh He is called The ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father.
@34craigjan Why did you tell me to read that verse of scripture? Jesus is a man praying to God the Father. So of coarse He would address Him as 'Father' This scripture doesn't declare Jesus as the 'Eternal Son' Don't misunderstand me I do believe Jesus is God in the flesh. I just don't believe He was always God's Son. I believe His sonship was established before the foundation of the world as apart of the Godheads ultimate plan to redeem mankind.
@BurnAllLiberals this is continued from my last post. I just don't see muslims embracing this point of view because if they did then they would be faced with the propasition that their prophet is wrong and that christians don't ascribe partners to God.which calls into question mohamads prophethood and the "truth" of the quran which is the exact word for word voice of God himself and you can't question that you know. Secondly you can't say that the church fathers compair to the hadith.
"The Koran has two "natures", book form, and Eternal" - this is the exact same arguement used to understand Jesus. He has two natures divine and human which are seperate and not mixed.
God's Word is ONE with GOD. God's Word is Uncreated and Eternal. God's Word IS GOD. And He is ONE with HIM and His Spirit. - this is the exact arguemtent used to understand the trinity - God-Father, Word-Son, Spirit-Holy Spirit.If you use this arguement then you have to alow the trinity to be 1
there is a flaw in dr whites explanation of the one being three persons analogy. When Jesus became the GOD/MAN he took on ANOTHER beeeeeiiiiiinnngg!!!therefore this cancels out the trinity by the three persons becoming another BEING with Jesus becoming the GODMAN he was a GOD being (1 of the trinity)and was and now is two beings human being and god being!
@specialagentash Nope your wrong.you don't understand the consept fully. Jesus or the Word, did not take another being.Within the incarnation(Jesus) there resides 2 natures, 1 human and 1 divine to fully explain this requires more that 500 characters.but a simplified version of this is you have 2 natures that coexist at the same place at the same time, one eternal - your soul, and one not eternal - your flesh. this a very simplified idea of what dr. white speaks. they are seperate and not mixed
@RedLetterChristian That was well said. To bad they just cant see or understand that. I think its pretty simple and clear. We are spirits yet we live in a body. Its like a person inhabiting a car. The person inside the car would represent the spirit and the car itself would be the body. The car is made up of many parts but is dead (or wont start) without a person (the spirit) to start it (or give it life to move)
@Nazam44 I wouldn't waste my time debating with "Koran Only" Muslims, if I really wanted to learn the truth, or if I was interested in it or sincere about it, unless I want to win converts then I will debate Koran Only Muslims. That is the same thing with Protestantism, if they tell you that "we have no such thing as a 'Christian hadith'", then tell them that they are wrong. I will give you that peice of info. We have a thing called "the Church Fathers", and that is comparable to the hadiths.
@Nazam44 We usually don't bother with these things, but I will tell you, that if you keep on hearing debates from Protestantism, you will NEVER hear the Truth from Christianity. I don't know why you Muslims waste your time with IDIOTS, prehaps to win converts. But if you really want to hear the truth, then many of you should debate Catholics or Orthodox Christians for starters.Because protestants don't know squat about the Trinity, because that word is not in the Bible, and they are "BIBLE ONLY"
@Nazam44 Only God is Eternal, wouldn't u agree? Or else u have 2 Eternal entities, unless they are both 1. We beleive in God, His Word and His Spirit, but yet these are not Three Eternals but ONE. His Spirit and His Word flow from the same source, the same fountainhead, but yet these are not Three Gods but ONE GOD. We beleive that He is ONE, but He is not limited to His attributes, He is beyond that, He is Oneness in Fullness, not Oneness litmited in number or etc. He is Infinite Oneness.
@Nazam44 Everything bares witness to us, that we have the true religion and not you. Jews bare witness to us. Moslems bare witness to us. Protestants bare witness to us. Democracy and the concepts of freedom & etc., bares witness to us. Everything bares witness to Christ who is Jesus. Muslims accept Him as a prophet, Hindus accept Him as a god. Communists say he was a Communist, Muslims say He was a muslim, liberals say He was a liberal, and etc. Mormons, Buddhists,etc and etc.
@Nazam44 God in His devine knowledge has forsaw all things, He has already foreseen the advent of the coming religions and concepts, or Islam and of Protestantism. Islam in my opinion, is only a second hand Abrahamic Religion, just like Protestantism is only a Second Hand Christian Religion.God can use Islam and Protestantism to reflect upon the importance of His Word & His Traditions.They are only relections and shadows of the True Religion. Just like the Moon is only a reflection of the sun.
@Nazam44 Bible & Holy Tradition, have a devine & human aspect of it.God will protect His words for sure,but God uses men to preserve & protect His Words. God does not become speechless, only because the Last Prophet has died. God can choose to continue to reveal his words through Holy Tradition, & through His Holy Spirit, which spoke to the Prophets of Old, but He chose to reveal all things to us through His Son. We read His words to get to know Him, not God reading our words to get to know us
@Nazam44 We make a distinction between WRITTEN because we know the limits of words, vocabulary and etc. And that it is Man that WRITES the words in a LIMITED HUMAN launguage. It contains the words of God through men yes, but it is limited as to it's writing, But it is interesting that you've brought it up, God's Word and His Spirit can be compared to the Bible and Holy Tradition. Because it is through that Holy Tradition that God's words are preserved.
@Nazam44 No, sorry, I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian. That means that just like Roman Catholics, we don't hold the Bible to be THE Word of God. Protestants are wrong in that regard too. Many of them worship the Bible instead of God. The Bible has the position of being the Word of God, but it is the WRITTEN word of God, not THE Word of God. To us, the Bible is EQUAL to Holy Tradition, as flowing from one source. But yes, these are not TWO eternals but ONE ETERNAL.
There is one God - the Trinity. Anything else is blasphemy. Jesus said if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. Jesus also said, "Before Abraham was, I am." Jesus claimed to be God. He either was God as He claimed, or He was a lunatic for the claim. We honor Him as God, you honor Him as a lunatic. Who has the better logic?
@Wilyam23 jesus said "THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I" ...if Jesus "claimed" to be God, how is the father greater than Jesus? Obviously Jesus is not God because he recognizes that GOD IS THE GREATEST. Jesus is not God the creator. there is only ONE god, not ONE IN THREE. ONE JUST ONE, LOOK AT THE 1st COMMANDMENT.
@rahatkhan .. “The Trinity" Edited by Stephen T. Davis. Daniel Kendall SJ. Geraldo O'collins SJ. OXFORD, page 167... “Standard Nicene exegetical rule: wherever Scripture speaks of the Son as less than the Father, Scripture is there speaking of the Son’s humanity; wherever Scripture speaks of the Son as equal to the Father, Scripture is there speaking of the Son’s divinity. See Philippians 2:5-8.. Joh 1:1-3, 14. Col 1:16, Heb 1:1-3,8-10.
@rahatkhan "LESSER" with God?.. If you're talking about Jesus being God while at the same time a a glorified man. Jesus has two natures in one person. The human nature is "lesser" than God. Jesus Divine nature is 100% fully equal WITH God. You have the "Economic trinity" which is the incarnation which was done for us and our salvation. And you have the "Ontological Trinity" Which shows us the Divine nature of God in the trinity all being fully 100% God...
We have the newest news and the evidence that Jesus is God from Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO city of Cebu in Philippines, he encountered Lord Jesus and nowadays he can hear his inner voice and Jesus appears in his dreams giving him messages about spreading of Jesus mercy to the mankind because Jesus is a merciful God but the time of mercy will not last forever and it will come a time when he comes back to judge everybody, and who doesn’t have atonement for his sins will faces his judgment.
@senja71 hmm although they're opposites but still both are religions ..so we can compare btw them to show the differance and that Islam is by far the better religion and the only true religion ^_^
Why debate? islam is not a religion but a collection of rants from a murdering pedophile & rapist. If you think this is a religion then you need a psychiatric consult. Rants of Genghis Khan qualify also as religion? Promising bedouin men virgin pussy, raping, war booty (20% for Mo da hoe and the prettiest pussy for him) here and in heaven along with young boys of perpetual youth is not a religion. Maybe Satanic religion. Did Christ or Buddha start out this way? I am not even religious!!! S
Due to christian beleive Jesus is not the Father and Jesus in Jiohn 17:3 says the ONLY TURE GOD is the FATHER so any attepmt to prove Jesus is God this is SHIRK, case closed
@23focus24 Look at the next two verses the proceed immediately after the passage you just quoted (out of context). What does it mean for Jesus to "share the glory of the Father before the world was" for you?
@Epagonizesthai I am reading eveyrthing in the context, so instead of telling me read in context why dont you explain your objection in context, please expose me :)
@Jerseygirl8999 o really he does? can you please point out anywhere in the Bible and unambiguous statement where Jesus himself says that he (Jesus) is God or where he said to worship him. I think you missed the part where I was the one who cleared up what annointed means and now your going back and screwing up the meaning?
are you realy that thick, being annoined does not denote a nature of divinity. There were many prophets, kings, and priests who were annointed throughout the entire Bible. But if you had actually read it with understanding would you have known that. Here are some quotes for ya.
Psalm 105:15, 1 Chronicles 16:22, Judges 9:8, 15; 1Samuel 9:16; 2 Samuel 19:10, 1Samuel 16:13; 2Samuel 2:4; 5:3,Leveticus 8:12, Leveticus 8:12. It is you christians who are blind not us Muslims. Learn to read your bible first correctly and then come talk to us.
every time i watch a muslim trying to attack the truth of the bible why do they always fail, bow the knee in worship to christ or in judgement the choice is yours!!!!!
designabuble, you're sadly confused. When it comes to the lack of any authenticity of the bible, you do not need a muslim or the quran for that matter to prove it. The history of the bible itself, with its absurd contradictions, is its own critic. Also, so many learned biblical scholars confirm what the quran said 1400 years ago. Dr. Bart Ehrman (a expert in scholar in the NT) concluded, "the content of the bible can not be trusted". The contradictions in the bible drove him out of christianity!
James White on the other hand is, exactly as he claims, an apologist. He is trained to do one thing only to defend the bible at any cost even if he makes up stories and confuses terms as he is recognized to do. He arrogantly gives the false impression as if christianity or even the various christian scholars and groups hold the same views he's helplessly defending. Go to wikipedia, type authors of the bible. You'll be amazed to see that the writers of the bible were VERY fallible unknown men!
don't be a donkey......one day u and me gonna taste the death...at that very point..both of us gonna see what we believe is wright or wrong ...may be u r tooo late may b my self... hell or heaven ....decide....no forgiveness after this life .what u earn u gonna get... it depends on
whats so hard about 3 in 1. think like a milky way. penuts caramel and chocolate make one candy bar.
one BEING with 3 entities that together make ONE. god manifests as flesh but is still god because only a part of him became flesh. muslims put limits on what god can do. i thought god was omnipresent?? ominpotent and can do anything. r u saying god cannot become flesh??? do u speak for god?? is god limited????
@rickru1 We are not putting a limit on God, we know that God doesn't do crazy things.He is all wise therefore He would not let a part of Him to be beaten up, slapped and crucified by His own creation. He doesn't need to come down here 2 know how we live, He created us therefore He know us well.Why would He come down Himself when He has angels, spirits, messengers all under His authority. If even human kings dont do that how do u think the King of the kings would do that...come on now !!!
how do u know this?? now u seam to be speaking for god.. How do u know what god is capable of doing??? maybe to u god doesnt do crazy things but perhaps to god its not crazy. u do not know the mind or methods of god..
Job 36:26 How great is God--beyond our understanding!
@rickru1 muhammed did get it right. Jesus didn't have no church, he used to go to the synagogue to preach. After he left his true disciples such as James n Jonh did the same thing. The koran has no error. Jesus never told u he was God..u are putting something in his mouth he never said and on the day of judgement u will have to answer to that. On that day many people wil come 2 him sayin lord lord we did lots of thing in yo name and he will rebuke them n tell'em to get away from him !!!
first of all jonh 1;1 is not Jesus talking but the author is speaking. secondly if u say that Jesus is God because he said i n my father are one" then u gonna hav to admit that the disciples are Gods too because in Jonh 17:21-23 Jesus also say that him n the disciples are one. Thirdly i think u need 2 update your bible because 1 Jonh 5;7 is no more in the bible. IT is rejected as pure fabrication by the gospel scholars. It was the words of a philosopher that crept by mistakes in the gospel !
like all muslims, u fail to read and include the context... as for 1 Jonh 5:7, i see it in my bible but of course u cannot provide proof for this. as for Jonh 17:21-23 that is exactly right. i too am one with jesus and the father but u need to be born of the spirit first.
the sad truth is muhammad did not know christianity well so he wrote what he thought he knew, now muslims have to make escuses and cover up for his mistakes by attacking the bible. but ur evil can never prevail bible truth
"The Islamic Catch-22." We know that Jesus predicted His violent and imminent death. Either these things came to pass and the Quran is in error for claiming they did not, or they did not come to pass and the Quran is in error for treating Jesus as a great Prophet when, in fact, Hed be a false prophet for prophesying incorrectly.
What are Muslims supposed to do with this problem? well they have cut the gospels apart and only pick parts that agree with them.
I am sorry but you have got to be one of the biggest retards that I have come across, congratulations for making it there. Do you know what the text is even saying?! It is saying Everyone who believes that Jesus is the CHRIST has been born of God. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the CHRIST? We muslims believe Jesis is the Christ, in greek it is Christos, in arabic its Massiya. ALL MEANING ANOINTED ONE. You just proved your ignorance, congratulations.
@halfl1fe007 Jesus said you must believe He is God or you will die in your sins. Do you even know what it means to be annointed? Christ is not his last name. Christ is his divinity nature. He was truely God truely man. Muslims are so blind.
John 13:13-14 "You call me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, FOR SO I AM.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
jesus did not rebuke thomas for calling him god. can a mere prophet do this?
Mark 14:1 - 15:47 Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?" Jesus said, "I am;
muh was completely wrong, he thought mary was a god.the koran is completely ignorant of christianity. but then again, the koran came 600 years after the fact. funny thing tho, all other sources,historians within and outside the gospels from the time of jesus unto this day NEVER claimed mary as a god.. only the koran does this. every source disagrees with koran Sura 5:116, "Then God will say: Jesus son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind: "Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?"
@Senefrica i will say mohammed got it wrong Jesus never spoke as a child and GOD never asked him if he said his mother was diety these false stories are found in the Quran though go figure
1x1x1=1 The issue is not whether we can prove the trinity, the issue is does the New Testament teach the doctrine of the trinity. The debate should be about the reliability of the New Testament and the reliability of the Koran. Which document is more reliable in describing the World as it is?
Brother Rashid has done a commendable job in exposing the twisted (and often deceitful) arguments of Dr. White. The gospel truth that Jesus is NOT the God of Israel is written large in the pages of the New Testament. The Trinitarian claims (as represented by the likes of Dr. White) are based on erroneous reading of the scripture which lacks objectivity and consistency. Check out BiblicalUnitarian (dot) com that exposes common Trinitarian fallacies.
thats were u fail. once you say how can this Be when one already assumes Jesus is GOD, and at the same time accepts the all powerful definition of GOD, then you should realize you should not even use the phrase/question HOW CAN?.lol to get into the heart of the issue to ask why Would GOD do that? or Show the schizophrenia of its logic in nature.
Yeah, but you see, the thing is if I'm a man and I'm the son of a man, you wouldn't say me and my father are one man; that makes two men right? Would you now agree that Jesus being God and son of God makes two gods? Your answer is therefore self defeating!
Trinity is not mentioned in bible it is creation of pagan christians when christinity was not that common christian went to pagans and they said they will accept christianity if you make trinity part of it and it became part of christian faith
Christians are so stupid that they do not listen to their prophet but they give more importance to paul who was killing christians and then he thought physical killing is impossible so he decided to kill them spritually by authoring bible ONE GOD not 3
We never claimed Trinity is mentioned in the Bible, we claimed that it is TAUGHT in the Bible; there is a difference. If you want to be consistent, provide me one single verse from the Qur'an that mentions the word "Tawheed."
Hi Thanks for your reply. Word Tawheed is not mentioned in Quran. But oneness of God is explained over and over in quran same as in old testament and new testament. The concept of trinity was forign to So called God of yours "JESUS CHRIST" Please before you say anything about ALLAH let me just say this to you pick up Arabic version of the bible open Genisis 1 and count how many times Word Allah is mentioned on just the first page (noless then 19 times. ) Trinity is Pagan concept and hindus know
Ok, so now we are on the same page. Neither trinity nor Tawheed is mentioned in either Book. However, we can derive our teachings based on what the book says. You say that trinity is not taught in the bible, but Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father are called God in numerous places.
The Spirit of God is distinct from him, and yet it is also one and the same with God. Eze 11:5 "Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon me, and he told me to say: This is what the LORD says"
The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit MATTHEW 12:31,32 "every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.... anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." {only God can be blasphemed}
Genesis 6:3 "And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man" God has a spirit
Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life." The Spirit is coupled with God as the Creator
John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
Also, I said that blasphemy against the Spirit is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and only God can be blasphemed. Also, lying to the holy spirit is lying to God.
Lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God Acts 5:3,4 "Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit...You have not lied to men but to God."
Title of Allah Surah 57:3 "He is the first and the last, the Evident and the Immanent"
Jesus applies the same title Revelation 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Jesus is called God 2 PETER 1:1 "the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ"
Wow... Catholics do NOT worship Mary. Look at our Creeds, we say we worship only One God in three persons, it never mentions that Mary is God. I challenge anyone to cite me a dogmatic catholic doctrine saying that catholics worship Mary.
"Marian shrines and places of pilgrimage are found throughout the world. At Montserrat in Spain the Black Virgin has been venerated since the 12th century. The icon of Our Lady of Częstochowa has been venerated in Poland since the early 14th century. The picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe commemorates an alleged apparition of Mary to Native American Juan Diego in Mexico in 1531. cont"
(cont.10) Furthermore, half of the Hail Mary prayer comes directly from scripture, in Luke 1:28 we are simply repeating what Angel Jibril said to Mary "Hail, favored one! (or full of grace in some translations) The Lord is with you." Then Elizabeth says in verse 42 "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb" There you go that is half of the hail mary prayer, the other half deals with asking Her to pray to GOD for us, I have already explained that concept.
(cont. 11) In regards to the Mother of God thing, you need first of all to understand the trinity and the incarnation, but that is a whole other topic. Anyways, this is what we mean The Council of Ephesis in its Second Letter of Cyril of Alexandria to Nestorius said "It was not that an ordinary man was born of the Holy Virgin, on who afterward the Word descended; what we say is that, being UNITED with the flesh from the womb, [the Word] has undergone birth in the FLESH, making the birth.....
(cont.12) ...making the birth in the flesh his OWN...Thus [The Holy Fathers] have unhesitantly called the holy Virgin "Mother of God" [Theotokos]. This does NOT mean that the NATURE of the Word or his DIVINITY recieved a beginning of its existence from the holy Virgin, but that, since the holy body animated by a rational soul, which the Word UNITED himself according to the HYPOSTASIS, was born from her, the WORD was born according to the FLESH." This does not make Mary a goddess, nor did we...
(cont.13) ... nor did we ever say that we worship Mary. I still challenge you to find me one single dogmatic doctrine of the Catholic church where it says we worship Mary. If you think we worship Mary according to Islam, that is fine, but know that we do NOT worship Mary according to our CATHOLIC faith, nor did we ever claim to worship her. Catholics who do are deviant and do not know their own faith. I hope that helped, let me know if u got questions.
If you donot worship marry you are doing what islam is telling you to do so u are comming closer to Islam. But according to what u stated there are catholics who worship marry are misled thats exactly what Quran is saying do not worship marry. and if you do is wrong contact me if you need explanation
cont. In the 19th century a number of apparitions of Mary were reported that inspired the development of shrines, devotions, and pilgrimages—for instance, in Paris (1830, Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal); Lourdes (1858, Our Lady of Lourdes); Knock, in Ireland (1879, Our Lady of Knock); and Fatima, in Portugal (1917, Our Lady of Fatima)."
Dont forget the Hail Mary. Or that whole "Mother of God" thing. From an islamic perspective, all of this is blatant shirk.
You did not cite me one single dogmatic doctrine of the catholic church where it says that we worship Mary. But I will deal with these assertions you brought up. First of all Catholics who DO worship Mary are ignorant of their own faith since we do not teach that. Secondly, lets look at what the Catechism says "Idolatry is a perversion of mans innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God'"(CCC 2114).
(cont.) The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed "by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (374). So you need to judge us by what we actually believe and by our catholic standards and not by your islamic standards. But what about all the shrines and devotions etc?
(cont.3) Well, you have to distinguish between worship and VENERATION. Veneration means to highly respect someone, and as Catholics we highly respect our saints for all the good things and the example they set for others, just like Muslims honor and venerate Abu Bakr, veneration does NOT mean worship. Also, the use of statues stems from the early days of the church where they were used as TEACHING aids for those who were illiterate.
(cont. 4) In regards to "praying" to the saints, a few principles need to be established. First, we do not pray to the saints, we ask them to pray to God for us, otherwise known as intercession. In Catholicism, ALL christians are suppose to pray for each other. Additionally, ALL christians are members of the body of christ whether they are in heaven or on earth Rom 12:4-5, 1 Cor 12:12-13, and as members of the body of christ we can pray for each other. It's like making dua for someone, except
(cont.4) except that in christianity saints can make dua for us because we are all united in the one body of christ, whereas in islam you cannot do this. Also, when we go to a statue, we do not worship it, we use it as an AID to help us pray to God. For example, the crucifix, we do not worship it, rather we use it to remember what Christ did for us to aid us in our prayers, sort of like Tawassul. Its like when you see a picture of ur family, u do not worhip it, rather u use it to aid u in
(cont.5) u use to it aid u in remembering your family. Thats how we use it, to remember or to help us in prayer, not to worship it. In regards to the appiritions, we have to distinguish between public revelation and private revelation. This is what the Catechism says on Public revelation "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of.....
(cont.6) ...our Lord Jesus Christ." Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries." CCC#6. In regards to private revelation the Catechism says this " Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith.....
(cont.7) .... It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church." So it serves to more FULLY serve and live out what has already once and for all has been revealed. They act as aids to inspire ppl to worship God.
(cont.8) The Pope in his "Message of Fatima" wrote " of private revelation, . . . refers to all the visions and revelations which have taken place since the completion of the New Testament.... such a message [private revelation] can be a genuine help in understanding the Gospel and living it better at a particular moment in time; therefore it should not be disregarded. It is a help which is offered, but which one is not obliged to use"
(cont. 9) In regards to the Hail Mary, you have to judge us by what Catholics believe and not by what Muslims believe. In your belief it is shirk, but not in ours. First of all like I already mentioned, all christians are members of the One body of Christ, whether they are in heaven or on earth. And as members of the body of Christ, we are suppose to pray to God for each other. That's what we do in the hail mary, we ask her to pray to God for us.
Today, March 27, 2009, CNN reported that a suicide bomber entered into a mosque in Pakistan and blew himself up killing up to 50 Muslim worshippers. I want you to tell me two things: (1) How is the so-called evil Western Media that portraits (shows) Islam in a bad light responsible for this massacre (killing); and (2) which of these people will enter Allahs Paradise—the suicide bomber or his victims? They are all good Muslims, arent they?
Saudi Arabia, with all its gross failures on basic human rights, is a small upgrade away from a strict Muhammadism state. Most Muslims see Saudi Arabia as a puppet (dummy) country. How very sad! Today the Taliban is the only government that closely resembles the perfect Muhammads government. Yet we see no out-cries or series of protests by Muslims around the world? Muslims silently rejoice in the success of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, and the Taliban. Is this the Sharia laws?
Mr. Khan, it is very obvious that you are ignorant of Islam. This guy, Adnan, destroyed the Christian fool. Your either a psycho or just a crazy fool. Wassalam
Tell you what, I'll answer these when you answer the questions I've posed to you. I've asked you a lot of questions that you haven't even started to answer. I'm not a circus monkey. Either participate in the convo or I'm gone.
Depends where you look; MAT 12:40 gives Jesus prophesying that he will spend "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth," and MAR 10:34 has "after three days (meta treis emeras) he will rise again." As far as I can see from a quick look, the prophecies have "after three days," but the post-Resurrection narratives have "on the third day."
james is asking where Koran identified trinity I am asking him show me where it is identified in bible
MarruecosMan 1 week ago
@MarruecosMan haha no where
Afghanistang 1 day ago
its not about music julio14335.....no matter how beautiful one sounds in reciting any scripture and not right with God or walking accroding to His ways, than his recitation is in vain....God looks at the heart not music.
creeman007 1 month ago
I love you creeman 007, you are the first Christians i have ever hard responding to a question without using negetives words,, thank you for that comment may God continue to guide us to the right part...
julio14335 1 month ago
There is no music on earth compare to the recitation of the koran...
julio14335 1 month ago
James badly lost the debate :)
ExtremeEnergyForce 2 months ago
@ExtremeEnergyForce rubbish... he did so well.
ONU34 1 month ago
I have a question if the trinity is so central to our salvation why doesn't the Bible mention it frequently. In fact it doesn't even mention it once. However, god mentions his oneness countless number of times in the bible. Give me a SINGLE example of the trinity in the bible. I know one verse that every christian is going to spew however Christian scholars agree that even that SINGLE (only 1 possible verse) is fabricated.
iqratbismirabika 4 months ago
@iqratbismirabika So true friend. The word Trinity is nowhere in the Bible either. I always think about what Jesus (peace be upon him) supposedly stated in Mark 12:29 when he was answering the scribe's question. He didn't inform the scribe that he was part of a trinity and how important it was to believe he was part of a trinity-- for his salvation. Here Jesus (pbuh) stated that the first commandment, "Hear O Israel, the Lord OUR God is ONE Lord..." That obviously is relevant
amuslima99 1 month ago
is this video missing any sections?
ndntakeover24 4 months ago
so the God of christians has multiple personality disorder?
OrganicKing 4 months ago
Why are all muslim apologists so hopelessly confused?...sigh..
selviskk 6 months ago
@1CorinthiansCH1V22 yes and parts of earth worshipping paganism are incorporated in to christianity till this day just look at the easter bunny. a symbol of fertility
generalzeedot 7 months ago
Hats off to Dr. White for your scholarship, gentleman-ship and grace!!
brbhatta 7 months ago 2
I am sorry to say but all Islamic debaters simply raise their voices and declare "this is so" without the proper presentation and respect for the history...they just ignore historical and linguistic laws.
brbhatta 7 months ago
The Trinity is alogical, not logical or illogical.
SquareBear116 8 months ago
@SquareBear116 it gives me a brain freeze, i failed math, but i do know 3 dont = 1 and vice versa. its common sense to think that God Is One, The Creator if us and everything that exists. we should worship him. Period point blank
ViciousBeats16 7 months ago
@ViciousBeats16 Is God bounded by mathematics? No. Doctrine of Trinity isn't logical nor illogical but rather alogical to are limited minds. As James White puts it, "The Trinity is not saying that there are three Beings who are one Being, nor three Persons who are one Person." Being and person are not the same words and are two different things. We Christians are worshipping ONE GOD alone, who exists eternally three coequal and persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
SqaureBear116 7 months ago
@SqaureBear116 so in 1 thing there is 3 things. Sounds retarded to me
ViciousBeats16 7 months ago
@ViciousBeats16 Wow, you completely missed Dr. White's point. Within the one being there exists three persons. Not one thing in three things.
ArginGerigorian 6 months ago 8
@ArginGerigorian
Define who God is and why you worship God?
mrAsim7 2 months ago
@ArginGerigorian He is Allah, the Creator, the Shaper out of naught, the Fashioner. His are the most beautiful names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Him, and He is the Mighty, the Wise. (24) also chapter 112 Say: He is Allah, the One! (1) Allah, the eternally Besought of all! (2) He begetteth not nor was begotten. (3) And there is none comparable unto Him. (4). Is bible anywhere near that crystal clear explanation about trinity or christ?????
DesiLeaks 4 days ago
@Nazam44
Have you ever read Isaiah?
1988TheHitman 8 months ago
@1988TheHitman asaiah was naked 3 yrs infront of his mother-inlaw and all the poeple around him, if you read his it makes no sense
MrAntitrinity 7 months ago
@MrAntitrinity
It wont make sense to anybody who is spiritually discerned, only God can open the eyes of understanding, read isaiah chapter 9 vs 6 and tell me who Jesus really is....... Bare in mind this verse was written 750 BC
1988TheHitman 7 months ago
james white was torn to pieces. jazzak allahu khayran for uploading this great debate. salam
khalilrabee 9 months ago
matter'o'fact, ima show what Islam teaches in the word salam, from islam, which both mean peace/joy/submission to that fact {they are both from each other}, n' so i pray Allah guides our created brother, dr. white to the most peaceful of states, which iz peace/pesa/shalom/smoothly....salam, amin.
Riyable 9 months ago
james white is a professor? what an illogical man. smdh! does he even understand what "GoD" means? Matter of fact, he should let someone else speak for him, like 'SHIRK' the responsibilty of being the one to defend for Christianity. what a dummy...
Riyable 9 months ago
james white is a professor? what an illogical man. smdh!
Riyable 9 months ago
rachid completely destroyed white, but the brainwashed christians attached to their pagan religion will never see it. Christianity is an insult to basic human intelligence. with that said, let me go sacrifice my cat for my dog's sins.
glower125 10 months ago
This was so painful to watch. Its amazing how Mr.Rashid misrepresents the Christian position. Not to mention he's severely ignorant of Church history. His point on the Catholic church proved it.
ReliableLojic 10 months ago
@ReliableLojic And that bit about the council of Nicea?! Aww man, He just lost all credibility there. The only good apologist Islam has is Shabir Ally.
ReliableLojic 10 months ago
@ReliableLojic christians can't handle the council of nicea. they want to forget the day their perversion and pagan religion was codified.
glower125 10 months ago
@glower125 No, We handle the Council of Nicea quite well. Whoever says the scriptures changed at the Council of Nicea is very ignorant. Matter of Fact, The council had NOTHING to do with the gospels. It was to deal with heresies of Arius.
ReliableLojic 10 months ago
James white was completely owned in this debate!!!
ahmadj345 11 months ago
James White = Winner.
elderaps 1 year ago 2
@elderaps Intellegent argurment wins debate but logic and reasoning wins hearts and minds of people.
julio14335 1 month ago
@BurnAllLiberals hahaha what a lame pun you made up here
KARAMUSLIMAN 1 year ago
Why do Muslims quote heretics like Thomas Jefferson?
rbmath 1 year ago
Christians are wrong when they say Jesus is the "Eternal Son" He is the Eternal Word that became God's Son through the incarnation. John 1 clearly says, "In the beginning was the WORD.." not "in the beginning was the Son" "and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God, the same was in the beginning with God...and the WORD became flesh...and we beheld His Glory. The glory as of the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father..." Now when He is in the flesh He is called The ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father.
TheRgordon16 1 year ago
@TheRgordon16 Try reading John 17:5 sir
34craigjan 1 year ago
@34craigjan Why did you tell me to read that verse of scripture? Jesus is a man praying to God the Father. So of coarse He would address Him as 'Father' This scripture doesn't declare Jesus as the 'Eternal Son' Don't misunderstand me I do believe Jesus is God in the flesh. I just don't believe He was always God's Son. I believe His sonship was established before the foundation of the world as apart of the Godheads ultimate plan to redeem mankind.
TheRgordon16 1 year ago
@BurnAllLiberals this is continued from my last post. I just don't see muslims embracing this point of view because if they did then they would be faced with the propasition that their prophet is wrong and that christians don't ascribe partners to God.which calls into question mohamads prophethood and the "truth" of the quran which is the exact word for word voice of God himself and you can't question that you know. Secondly you can't say that the church fathers compair to the hadith.
RedLetterChristian 1 year ago
@BurnAllLiberals
"The Koran has two "natures", book form, and Eternal" - this is the exact same arguement used to understand Jesus. He has two natures divine and human which are seperate and not mixed.
God's Word is ONE with GOD. God's Word is Uncreated and Eternal. God's Word IS GOD. And He is ONE with HIM and His Spirit. - this is the exact arguemtent used to understand the trinity - God-Father, Word-Son, Spirit-Holy Spirit.If you use this arguement then you have to alow the trinity to be 1
RedLetterChristian 1 year ago
there is a flaw in dr whites explanation of the one being three persons analogy. When Jesus became the GOD/MAN he took on ANOTHER beeeeeiiiiiinnngg!!!therefore this cancels out the trinity by the three persons becoming another BEING with Jesus becoming the GODMAN he was a GOD being (1 of the trinity)and was and now is two beings human being and god being!
specialagentash 1 year ago
@specialagentash Nope your wrong.you don't understand the consept fully. Jesus or the Word, did not take another being.Within the incarnation(Jesus) there resides 2 natures, 1 human and 1 divine to fully explain this requires more that 500 characters.but a simplified version of this is you have 2 natures that coexist at the same place at the same time, one eternal - your soul, and one not eternal - your flesh. this a very simplified idea of what dr. white speaks. they are seperate and not mixed
RedLetterChristian 1 year ago
@RedLetterChristian That was well said. To bad they just cant see or understand that. I think its pretty simple and clear. We are spirits yet we live in a body. Its like a person inhabiting a car. The person inside the car would represent the spirit and the car itself would be the body. The car is made up of many parts but is dead (or wont start) without a person (the spirit) to start it (or give it life to move)
TheRgordon16 1 year ago
@Nazam44 How can his word be eternal? :D
dragonstyle88 1 year ago
@Nazam44 I wouldn't waste my time debating with "Koran Only" Muslims, if I really wanted to learn the truth, or if I was interested in it or sincere about it, unless I want to win converts then I will debate Koran Only Muslims. That is the same thing with Protestantism, if they tell you that "we have no such thing as a 'Christian hadith'", then tell them that they are wrong. I will give you that peice of info. We have a thing called "the Church Fathers", and that is comparable to the hadiths.
BurnAllLiberals 1 year ago
@Nazam44 We usually don't bother with these things, but I will tell you, that if you keep on hearing debates from Protestantism, you will NEVER hear the Truth from Christianity. I don't know why you Muslims waste your time with IDIOTS, prehaps to win converts. But if you really want to hear the truth, then many of you should debate Catholics or Orthodox Christians for starters.Because protestants don't know squat about the Trinity, because that word is not in the Bible, and they are "BIBLE ONLY"
BurnAllLiberals 1 year ago
@Nazam44 Only God is Eternal, wouldn't u agree? Or else u have 2 Eternal entities, unless they are both 1. We beleive in God, His Word and His Spirit, but yet these are not Three Eternals but ONE. His Spirit and His Word flow from the same source, the same fountainhead, but yet these are not Three Gods but ONE GOD. We beleive that He is ONE, but He is not limited to His attributes, He is beyond that, He is Oneness in Fullness, not Oneness litmited in number or etc. He is Infinite Oneness.
BurnAllLiberals 1 year ago
@Nazam44 Everything bares witness to us, that we have the true religion and not you. Jews bare witness to us. Moslems bare witness to us. Protestants bare witness to us. Democracy and the concepts of freedom & etc., bares witness to us. Everything bares witness to Christ who is Jesus. Muslims accept Him as a prophet, Hindus accept Him as a god. Communists say he was a Communist, Muslims say He was a muslim, liberals say He was a liberal, and etc. Mormons, Buddhists,etc and etc.
BurnAllLiberals 1 year ago
@Nazam44 God in His devine knowledge has forsaw all things, He has already foreseen the advent of the coming religions and concepts, or Islam and of Protestantism. Islam in my opinion, is only a second hand Abrahamic Religion, just like Protestantism is only a Second Hand Christian Religion.God can use Islam and Protestantism to reflect upon the importance of His Word & His Traditions.They are only relections and shadows of the True Religion. Just like the Moon is only a reflection of the sun.
BurnAllLiberals 1 year ago
@Nazam44 Bible & Holy Tradition, have a devine & human aspect of it.God will protect His words for sure,but God uses men to preserve & protect His Words. God does not become speechless, only because the Last Prophet has died. God can choose to continue to reveal his words through Holy Tradition, & through His Holy Spirit, which spoke to the Prophets of Old, but He chose to reveal all things to us through His Son. We read His words to get to know Him, not God reading our words to get to know us
BurnAllLiberals 1 year ago
@Nazam44 We make a distinction between WRITTEN because we know the limits of words, vocabulary and etc. And that it is Man that WRITES the words in a LIMITED HUMAN launguage. It contains the words of God through men yes, but it is limited as to it's writing, But it is interesting that you've brought it up, God's Word and His Spirit can be compared to the Bible and Holy Tradition. Because it is through that Holy Tradition that God's words are preserved.
BurnAllLiberals 1 year ago
@Nazam44 No, sorry, I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian. That means that just like Roman Catholics, we don't hold the Bible to be THE Word of God. Protestants are wrong in that regard too. Many of them worship the Bible instead of God. The Bible has the position of being the Word of God, but it is the WRITTEN word of God, not THE Word of God. To us, the Bible is EQUAL to Holy Tradition, as flowing from one source. But yes, these are not TWO eternals but ONE ETERNAL.
BurnAllLiberals 1 year ago
I'm always amazed at how very little Muslims understand Christian theology... May God show mercy and grace...
rbmath 1 year ago
There is one God - the Trinity. Anything else is blasphemy. Jesus said if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. Jesus also said, "Before Abraham was, I am." Jesus claimed to be God. He either was God as He claimed, or He was a lunatic for the claim. We honor Him as God, you honor Him as a lunatic. Who has the better logic?
Wilyam23 1 year ago
@Wilyam23 jesus said "THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I" ...if Jesus "claimed" to be God, how is the father greater than Jesus? Obviously Jesus is not God because he recognizes that GOD IS THE GREATEST. Jesus is not God the creator. there is only ONE god, not ONE IN THREE. ONE JUST ONE, LOOK AT THE 1st COMMANDMENT.
rahatkhan 1 year ago
@rahatkhan Well said!
mawnyz1 1 year ago
@rahatkhan .. “The Trinity" Edited by Stephen T. Davis. Daniel Kendall SJ. Geraldo O'collins SJ. OXFORD, page 167... “Standard Nicene exegetical rule: wherever Scripture speaks of the Son as less than the Father, Scripture is there speaking of the Son’s humanity; wherever Scripture speaks of the Son as equal to the Father, Scripture is there speaking of the Son’s divinity. See Philippians 2:5-8.. Joh 1:1-3, 14. Col 1:16, Heb 1:1-3,8-10.
rbmath 1 year ago
@rbmath how can you attribute something "lesser" with God?
rahatkhan 1 year ago
@rahatkhan "LESSER" with God?.. If you're talking about Jesus being God while at the same time a a glorified man. Jesus has two natures in one person. The human nature is "lesser" than God. Jesus Divine nature is 100% fully equal WITH God. You have the "Economic trinity" which is the incarnation which was done for us and our salvation. And you have the "Ontological Trinity" Which shows us the Divine nature of God in the trinity all being fully 100% God...
rbmath 1 year ago
We have the newest news and the evidence that Jesus is God from Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO city of Cebu in Philippines, he encountered Lord Jesus and nowadays he can hear his inner voice and Jesus appears in his dreams giving him messages about spreading of Jesus mercy to the mankind because Jesus is a merciful God but the time of mercy will not last forever and it will come a time when he comes back to judge everybody, and who doesn’t have atonement for his sins will faces his judgment.
austriaheute 1 year ago
islam > christianity from the bible (from jesus own words) ..there for islam wins ...case closed
b2bb55 1 year ago
@b2bb55
Islam and christianity can not be compared,- they teach the OPPOSITE!
senja71 1 year ago
@senja71 hmm although they're opposites but still both are religions ..so we can compare btw them to show the differance and that Islam is by far the better religion and the only true religion ^_^
b2bb55 1 year ago
Why debate? islam is not a religion but a collection of rants from a murdering pedophile & rapist. If you think this is a religion then you need a psychiatric consult. Rants of Genghis Khan qualify also as religion? Promising bedouin men virgin pussy, raping, war booty (20% for Mo da hoe and the prettiest pussy for him) here and in heaven along with young boys of perpetual youth is not a religion. Maybe Satanic religion. Did Christ or Buddha start out this way? I am not even religious!!! S
StyngRay1 1 year ago
Due to christian beleive Jesus is not the Father and Jesus in Jiohn 17:3 says the ONLY TURE GOD is the FATHER so any attepmt to prove Jesus is God this is SHIRK, case closed
23focus24 1 year ago
@23focus24 Look at the next two verses the proceed immediately after the passage you just quoted (out of context). What does it mean for Jesus to "share the glory of the Father before the world was" for you?
Epagonizesthai 1 year ago
@Epagonizesthai I am reading eveyrthing in the context, so instead of telling me read in context why dont you explain your objection in context, please expose me :)
23focus24 1 year ago
@Jerseygirl8999 o really he does? can you please point out anywhere in the Bible and unambiguous statement where Jesus himself says that he (Jesus) is God or where he said to worship him. I think you missed the part where I was the one who cleared up what annointed means and now your going back and screwing up the meaning?
halfl1fe007 1 year ago
are you realy that thick, being annoined does not denote a nature of divinity. There were many prophets, kings, and priests who were annointed throughout the entire Bible. But if you had actually read it with understanding would you have known that. Here are some quotes for ya.
halfl1fe007 1 year ago
Psalm 105:15, 1 Chronicles 16:22, Judges 9:8, 15; 1Samuel 9:16; 2 Samuel 19:10, 1Samuel 16:13; 2Samuel 2:4; 5:3,Leveticus 8:12, Leveticus 8:12. It is you christians who are blind not us Muslims. Learn to read your bible first correctly and then come talk to us.
halfl1fe007 1 year ago
every time i watch a muslim trying to attack the truth of the bible why do they always fail, bow the knee in worship to christ or in judgement the choice is yours!!!!!
designaball 2 years ago
designabuble, you're sadly confused. When it comes to the lack of any authenticity of the bible, you do not need a muslim or the quran for that matter to prove it. The history of the bible itself, with its absurd contradictions, is its own critic. Also, so many learned biblical scholars confirm what the quran said 1400 years ago. Dr. Bart Ehrman (a expert in scholar in the NT) concluded, "the content of the bible can not be trusted". The contradictions in the bible drove him out of christianity!
Highabove01 2 years ago
James White on the other hand is, exactly as he claims, an apologist. He is trained to do one thing only to defend the bible at any cost even if he makes up stories and confuses terms as he is recognized to do. He arrogantly gives the false impression as if christianity or even the various christian scholars and groups hold the same views he's helplessly defending. Go to wikipedia, type authors of the bible. You'll be amazed to see that the writers of the bible were VERY fallible unknown men!
Highabove01 2 years ago
don't be a donkey......one day u and me gonna taste the death...at that very point..both of us gonna see what we believe is wright or wrong ...may be u r tooo late may b my self... hell or heaven ....decide....no forgiveness after this life .what u earn u gonna get... it depends on
ramziisramzi 1 year ago
Jesus is fully God fully man God entered man kind to reedem us {isaiah 53, isaiah 9:6}
designaball 2 years ago
muslims do not honor god because they do not honor jesus
John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
rickru1 2 years ago
whats so hard about 3 in 1. think like a milky way. penuts caramel and chocolate make one candy bar.
one BEING with 3 entities that together make ONE. god manifests as flesh but is still god because only a part of him became flesh. muslims put limits on what god can do. i thought god was omnipresent?? ominpotent and can do anything. r u saying god cannot become flesh??? do u speak for god?? is god limited????
rickru1 2 years ago
@rickru1 We are not putting a limit on God, we know that God doesn't do crazy things.He is all wise therefore He would not let a part of Him to be beaten up, slapped and crucified by His own creation. He doesn't need to come down here 2 know how we live, He created us therefore He know us well.Why would He come down Himself when He has angels, spirits, messengers all under His authority. If even human kings dont do that how do u think the King of the kings would do that...come on now !!!
Senefrica 2 years ago
how do u know this?? now u seam to be speaking for god.. How do u know what god is capable of doing??? maybe to u god doesnt do crazy things but perhaps to god its not crazy. u do not know the mind or methods of god..
Job 36:26 How great is God--beyond our understanding!
rickru1 2 years ago
Comment removed
Senefrica 2 years ago
the gospels came first, the koran came 600 years after. the koran is ignorant of christianity and the concept of trinity.
Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? ...What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!
rickru1 2 years ago
Oldest Church Found?
Inscribed To God Jesus Christ
Early Christian Prayer Hall Found in Megiddo Prison
By Vassilios Tzaferis
Bible and archaeology news bib-arch org
people in megiddo knew about jesus as god why did muhammad get it wrong???
the koran is unreliable because it has so many errors and gets the concept of jesus wrong.
rickru1 2 years ago
@rickru1 muhammed did get it right. Jesus didn't have no church, he used to go to the synagogue to preach. After he left his true disciples such as James n Jonh did the same thing. The koran has no error. Jesus never told u he was God..u are putting something in his mouth he never said and on the day of judgement u will have to answer to that. On that day many people wil come 2 him sayin lord lord we did lots of thing in yo name and he will rebuke them n tell'em to get away from him !!!
Senefrica 2 years ago 2
if u cannot understand these words then u must give it up cuz there is no way u will ever understand
John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 10:30 "I (Jesus) and the Father are One."
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE."
1 John 5:7
rickru1 2 years ago
first of all jonh 1;1 is not Jesus talking but the author is speaking. secondly if u say that Jesus is God because he said i n my father are one" then u gonna hav to admit that the disciples are Gods too because in Jonh 17:21-23 Jesus also say that him n the disciples are one. Thirdly i think u need 2 update your bible because 1 Jonh 5;7 is no more in the bible. IT is rejected as pure fabrication by the gospel scholars. It was the words of a philosopher that crept by mistakes in the gospel !
Senefrica 2 years ago
like all muslims, u fail to read and include the context... as for 1 Jonh 5:7, i see it in my bible but of course u cannot provide proof for this. as for Jonh 17:21-23 that is exactly right. i too am one with jesus and the father but u need to be born of the spirit first.
the sad truth is muhammad did not know christianity well so he wrote what he thought he knew, now muslims have to make escuses and cover up for his mistakes by attacking the bible. but ur evil can never prevail bible truth
rickru1 2 years ago
"The Islamic Catch-22." We know that Jesus predicted His violent and imminent death. Either these things came to pass and the Quran is in error for claiming they did not, or they did not come to pass and the Quran is in error for treating Jesus as a great Prophet when, in fact, Hed be a false prophet for prophesying incorrectly.
What are Muslims supposed to do with this problem? well they have cut the gospels apart and only pick parts that agree with them.
rickru1 2 years ago
u r not born or drawn of god u have antichrist spirit:
No one can come to Christ unless first drawn by God the Father John 6:44
1 John 5:1-5"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God
1 John 2:22-24 "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3 and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist,
rickru1 2 years ago
I am sorry but you have got to be one of the biggest retards that I have come across, congratulations for making it there. Do you know what the text is even saying?! It is saying Everyone who believes that Jesus is the CHRIST has been born of God. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the CHRIST? We muslims believe Jesis is the Christ, in greek it is Christos, in arabic its Massiya. ALL MEANING ANOINTED ONE. You just proved your ignorance, congratulations.
halfl1fe007 1 year ago
really, then why is it muslims say jesus was just a prophet and nothing else??
"You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."Matthew 16:16
looks lilke the retard is u since u cannot admit that jesus christ is the son of god.
rickru1 1 year ago
@halfl1fe007 Jesus said you must believe He is God or you will die in your sins. Do you even know what it means to be annointed? Christ is not his last name. Christ is his divinity nature. He was truely God truely man. Muslims are so blind.
Jerseygirl8999 1 year ago
John 13:13-14 "You call me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, FOR SO I AM.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
jesus did not rebuke thomas for calling him god. can a mere prophet do this?
Mark 14:1 - 15:47 Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?" Jesus said, "I am;
rickru1 2 years ago
muh was completely wrong, he thought mary was a god.the koran is completely ignorant of christianity. but then again, the koran came 600 years after the fact. funny thing tho, all other sources,historians within and outside the gospels from the time of jesus unto this day NEVER claimed mary as a god.. only the koran does this. every source disagrees with koran Sura 5:116, "Then God will say: Jesus son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind: "Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?"
rickru1 2 years ago
@Senefrica i will say mohammed got it wrong Jesus never spoke as a child and GOD never asked him if he said his mother was diety these false stories are found in the Quran though go figure
chrisandstaci 5 months ago
1x1x1=1 The issue is not whether we can prove the trinity, the issue is does the New Testament teach the doctrine of the trinity. The debate should be about the reliability of the New Testament and the reliability of the Koran. Which document is more reliable in describing the World as it is?
daveowie 2 years ago
it will not mack it 1 even if u say 1x1x1x1x1=1 it dis not mack any sens
lunalikeme 2 years ago
Brother Rashid has done a commendable job in exposing the twisted (and often deceitful) arguments of Dr. White. The gospel truth that Jesus is NOT the God of Israel is written large in the pages of the New Testament. The Trinitarian claims (as represented by the likes of Dr. White) are based on erroneous reading of the scripture which lacks objectivity and consistency. Check out BiblicalUnitarian (dot) com that exposes common Trinitarian fallacies.
zorin85 2 years ago
James White is so confused. 3 PERSONS are 3 BEINGS not one....THREE.
this is so frustrating
tryingtobegood1 2 years ago
i think this guy brainwashed himself into believing 1+1+1=1...1 being.
and refuses to understand if their are 3 persons then its 3 different BEINGS.
tryingtobegood1 2 years ago
god is the greatest
may allah reward my brother adnan. inshallah .
jihadulnafs 2 years ago 2
adnan needs to come out of the debating game and leave it to the professionals!!!
ThePtno1 2 years ago
to be son is less than divine and to be divine is to be no ones son. how can Jesus possess both sonship and divinity together?
sulayman360 2 years ago
thats were u fail. once you say how can this Be when one already assumes Jesus is GOD, and at the same time accepts the all powerful definition of GOD, then you should realize you should not even use the phrase/question HOW CAN?.lol to get into the heart of the issue to ask why Would GOD do that? or Show the schizophrenia of its logic in nature.
AVeLLiiii 2 years ago
are you a man??? are you the son of a man???
your question: "how can Jesus possess both sonship and divinity together? " is really bad :)
it's kinda like me asking you : how can you be the son of a man and be human in the same time ???
i hope i answered your question...
God bless everyone
ApologeticaOnline 2 years ago
Yeah, but you see, the thing is if I'm a man and I'm the son of a man, you wouldn't say me and my father are one man; that makes two men right? Would you now agree that Jesus being God and son of God makes two gods? Your answer is therefore self defeating!
idrismonsur 2 years ago
@ApologeticaOnline
a human is a man! what are you talking about lol. we're talking about a divine being and a creation.
either you are divine or not. either you are the creator or a creation.
1+1+1=3 last time i used my logic, not 1+1+1=1
tryingtobegood1 2 years ago
Trinity is not mentioned in bible it is creation of pagan christians when christinity was not that common christian went to pagans and they said they will accept christianity if you make trinity part of it and it became part of christian faith
Christians are so stupid that they do not listen to their prophet but they give more importance to paul who was killing christians and then he thought physical killing is impossible so he decided to kill them spritually by authoring bible ONE GOD not 3
joshnfun 2 years ago
We never claimed Trinity is mentioned in the Bible, we claimed that it is TAUGHT in the Bible; there is a difference. If you want to be consistent, provide me one single verse from the Qur'an that mentions the word "Tawheed."
Mkvine 2 years ago
Hi Thanks for your reply. Word Tawheed is not mentioned in Quran. But oneness of God is explained over and over in quran same as in old testament and new testament. The concept of trinity was forign to So called God of yours "JESUS CHRIST" Please before you say anything about ALLAH let me just say this to you pick up Arabic version of the bible open Genisis 1 and count how many times Word Allah is mentioned on just the first page (noless then 19 times. ) Trinity is Pagan concept and hindus know
joshnfun 2 years ago
When we say Tawheed its just the label of whats clearly explained forexample
112:1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; "And your Allah is one Allah! there is no god but He; He is the Beneficent, the Merciful." [2:163, Quran)
But i dont see Trinity taught in bible
Why do u really want to destroy something so good "teaching of Jesus Christ" and inject trinity into his teaching
Ultimate authority to prove anything should be Jesus Christ himself not
so called authors of Bible
joshnfun 2 years ago
Ok, so now we are on the same page. Neither trinity nor Tawheed is mentioned in either Book. However, we can derive our teachings based on what the book says. You say that trinity is not taught in the bible, but Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father are called God in numerous places.
Mkvine 2 years ago
please quote something that proves your claim like i quoted something and please be fair with the standards you use to prove divinity of Jesus christ
joshnfun 2 years ago
The Spirit of God is distinct from him, and yet it is also one and the same with God. Eze 11:5 "Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon me, and he told me to say: This is what the LORD says"
The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit MATTHEW 12:31,32 "every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.... anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." {only God can be blasphemed}
Mkvine 2 years ago
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thelittlemiss28 2 years ago
Thanks for your reply. It says
Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon me, and he told me to say: THIS IS WHAT THE LORD SAYS.
how is it proving that spirit of God is GOD
Just like we are men of God any spirit God creates is spirit oF God not God himself.
Matthew only claims that there is distinction they are not one if spirit of GOd is God then anything u say to spirit will also be said to God
joshnfun 2 years ago
Genesis 6:3 "And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man" God has a spirit
Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life." The Spirit is coupled with God as the Creator
John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
Also, I said that blasphemy against the Spirit is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and only God can be blasphemed. Also, lying to the holy spirit is lying to God.
Mkvine 2 years ago
Lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God Acts 5:3,4 "Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit...You have not lied to men but to God."
Title of Allah Surah 57:3 "He is the first and the last, the Evident and the Immanent"
Jesus applies the same title Revelation 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Jesus is called God 2 PETER 1:1 "the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ"
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
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thelittlemiss28 2 years ago
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thelittlemiss28 2 years ago
TITUS 2:13 "appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ"
Mkvine 2 years ago
I lay my life down for My sheep, you are not of my sheep but of your father the devil...?
bmd200 2 years ago
Father the devil i didnt know Devil is going around making women pregnant and becoming father alobrate
joshnfun 2 years ago
James White provided a solid defence of the Trinity based on the Quran and I am convinced that the Trinity is not Shirk.
Dejan2116 2 years ago
Do you even know what shirk is ?
joshnfun 2 years ago
EL MESI OHA ALLAH!
Directline1000 2 years ago
Wow... Catholics do NOT worship Mary. Look at our Creeds, we say we worship only One God in three persons, it never mentions that Mary is God. I challenge anyone to cite me a dogmatic catholic doctrine saying that catholics worship Mary.
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
Here is what Encarta has to say:
"Marian shrines and places of pilgrimage are found throughout the world. At Montserrat in Spain the Black Virgin has been venerated since the 12th century. The icon of Our Lady of Częstochowa has been venerated in Poland since the early 14th century. The picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe commemorates an alleged apparition of Mary to Native American Juan Diego in Mexico in 1531. cont"
zaytoon88 2 years ago
(cont.10) Furthermore, half of the Hail Mary prayer comes directly from scripture, in Luke 1:28 we are simply repeating what Angel Jibril said to Mary "Hail, favored one! (or full of grace in some translations) The Lord is with you." Then Elizabeth says in verse 42 "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb" There you go that is half of the hail mary prayer, the other half deals with asking Her to pray to GOD for us, I have already explained that concept.
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont. 11) In regards to the Mother of God thing, you need first of all to understand the trinity and the incarnation, but that is a whole other topic. Anyways, this is what we mean The Council of Ephesis in its Second Letter of Cyril of Alexandria to Nestorius said "It was not that an ordinary man was born of the Holy Virgin, on who afterward the Word descended; what we say is that, being UNITED with the flesh from the womb, [the Word] has undergone birth in the FLESH, making the birth.....
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont.12) ...making the birth in the flesh his OWN...Thus [The Holy Fathers] have unhesitantly called the holy Virgin "Mother of God" [Theotokos]. This does NOT mean that the NATURE of the Word or his DIVINITY recieved a beginning of its existence from the holy Virgin, but that, since the holy body animated by a rational soul, which the Word UNITED himself according to the HYPOSTASIS, was born from her, the WORD was born according to the FLESH." This does not make Mary a goddess, nor did we...
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont.13) ... nor did we ever say that we worship Mary. I still challenge you to find me one single dogmatic doctrine of the Catholic church where it says we worship Mary. If you think we worship Mary according to Islam, that is fine, but know that we do NOT worship Mary according to our CATHOLIC faith, nor did we ever claim to worship her. Catholics who do are deviant and do not know their own faith. I hope that helped, let me know if u got questions.
Mkvine 2 years ago
If you donot worship marry you are doing what islam is telling you to do so u are comming closer to Islam. But according to what u stated there are catholics who worship marry are misled thats exactly what Quran is saying do not worship marry. and if you do is wrong contact me if you need explanation
joshnfun 2 years ago
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bmd200 2 years ago
According to Catholic teaching and doctrine, we do not worship marry
Mkvine 2 years ago
cont. In the 19th century a number of apparitions of Mary were reported that inspired the development of shrines, devotions, and pilgrimages—for instance, in Paris (1830, Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal); Lourdes (1858, Our Lady of Lourdes); Knock, in Ireland (1879, Our Lady of Knock); and Fatima, in Portugal (1917, Our Lady of Fatima)."
Dont forget the Hail Mary. Or that whole "Mother of God" thing. From an islamic perspective, all of this is blatant shirk.
zaytoon88 2 years ago
You did not cite me one single dogmatic doctrine of the catholic church where it says that we worship Mary. But I will deal with these assertions you brought up. First of all Catholics who DO worship Mary are ignorant of their own faith since we do not teach that. Secondly, lets look at what the Catechism says "Idolatry is a perversion of mans innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God'"(CCC 2114).
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont.) The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed "by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (374). So you need to judge us by what we actually believe and by our catholic standards and not by your islamic standards. But what about all the shrines and devotions etc?
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont.3) Well, you have to distinguish between worship and VENERATION. Veneration means to highly respect someone, and as Catholics we highly respect our saints for all the good things and the example they set for others, just like Muslims honor and venerate Abu Bakr, veneration does NOT mean worship. Also, the use of statues stems from the early days of the church where they were used as TEACHING aids for those who were illiterate.
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont. 4) In regards to "praying" to the saints, a few principles need to be established. First, we do not pray to the saints, we ask them to pray to God for us, otherwise known as intercession. In Catholicism, ALL christians are suppose to pray for each other. Additionally, ALL christians are members of the body of christ whether they are in heaven or on earth Rom 12:4-5, 1 Cor 12:12-13, and as members of the body of christ we can pray for each other. It's like making dua for someone, except
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont.4) except that in christianity saints can make dua for us because we are all united in the one body of christ, whereas in islam you cannot do this. Also, when we go to a statue, we do not worship it, we use it as an AID to help us pray to God. For example, the crucifix, we do not worship it, rather we use it to remember what Christ did for us to aid us in our prayers, sort of like Tawassul. Its like when you see a picture of ur family, u do not worhip it, rather u use it to aid u in
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont.5) u use to it aid u in remembering your family. Thats how we use it, to remember or to help us in prayer, not to worship it. In regards to the appiritions, we have to distinguish between public revelation and private revelation. This is what the Catechism says on Public revelation "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of.....
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont.6) ...our Lord Jesus Christ." Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries." CCC#6. In regards to private revelation the Catechism says this " Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith.....
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont.7) .... It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church." So it serves to more FULLY serve and live out what has already once and for all has been revealed. They act as aids to inspire ppl to worship God.
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont.8) The Pope in his "Message of Fatima" wrote " of private revelation, . . . refers to all the visions and revelations which have taken place since the completion of the New Testament.... such a message [private revelation] can be a genuine help in understanding the Gospel and living it better at a particular moment in time; therefore it should not be disregarded. It is a help which is offered, but which one is not obliged to use"
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
(cont. 9) In regards to the Hail Mary, you have to judge us by what Catholics believe and not by what Muslims believe. In your belief it is shirk, but not in ours. First of all like I already mentioned, all christians are members of the One body of Christ, whether they are in heaven or on earth. And as members of the body of Christ, we are suppose to pray to God for each other. That's what we do in the hail mary, we ask her to pray to God for us.
Mkvine 2 years ago 2
Good debate, but the video movement was annoying
Mkvine 2 years ago
IESOUS KURIOS
JESUS IS LORD
oldbeans316 2 years ago 2
Today, March 27, 2009, CNN reported that a suicide bomber entered into a mosque in Pakistan and blew himself up killing up to 50 Muslim worshippers. I want you to tell me two things: (1) How is the so-called evil Western Media that portraits (shows) Islam in a bad light responsible for this massacre (killing); and (2) which of these people will enter Allahs Paradise—the suicide bomber or his victims? They are all good Muslims, arent they?
123dsj123 2 years ago
i went to this debate
am1ar34 2 years ago
Saudi Arabia, with all its gross failures on basic human rights, is a small upgrade away from a strict Muhammadism state. Most Muslims see Saudi Arabia as a puppet (dummy) country. How very sad! Today the Taliban is the only government that closely resembles the perfect Muhammads government. Yet we see no out-cries or series of protests by Muslims around the world? Muslims silently rejoice in the success of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, and the Taliban. Is this the Sharia laws?
123dsj123 3 years ago
how Tri = mono? it can never be.
wisdomuser 3 years ago
This Adnan guy is so ignorant of the basics of Islam. Its shameful that he gets up to debate like this...shameful!
fingerskhan 3 years ago
Mr. Khan, it is very obvious that you are ignorant of Islam. This guy, Adnan, destroyed the Christian fool. Your either a psycho or just a crazy fool. Wassalam
ajizbilal 3 years ago
salam aleikum to all my respected brothers and sister
can anyone please tell me the name of the sheikh who is reciting the quran at the beginning???
brotherisaaa 3 years ago
salaam its sheikh abdul basit abdul samad
howdyadoo 2 years ago
No, stop spamming the combox.
Tell you what, I'll answer these when you answer the questions I've posed to you. I've asked you a lot of questions that you haven't even started to answer. I'm not a circus monkey. Either participate in the convo or I'm gone.
Rhology 3 years ago
How long was Jesus in the tomb?
Depends where you look; MAT 12:40 gives Jesus prophesying that he will spend "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth," and MAR 10:34 has "after three days (meta treis emeras) he will rise again." As far as I can see from a quick look, the prophecies have "after three days," but the post-Resurrection narratives have "on the third day."
ariffcts 3 years ago
there are still plenty of contradictions...if you want I can post some more..
ariffcts 3 years ago
What did they give him to drink?
MAT 27:34 vinegar
MAR 15:23 wine with myrrh
ariffcts 3 years ago
When second coming?
MAT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
MAR 13:30 Verily I say unto yo