@godno1god Thanks for the reply. I haven't read as much Schopenhauer as I would have liked to. I've had his Magnum Opus, "The World as Will and Representation", for a few years now but have not gotten around to reading it as of yet. Although I have read a few of his other works; "The Two Fundamental Problems with Ethics", "On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason", and a few of his essays. I must surely say that he is one of my favorite philosophers.
@niriop Not quite, in all time in all space it nearly never exists. But existence is just a STATUS at that exact time and exact space reletive to the sensor. This entire 100% correct relative to humans because the true answer over all space and time is not possible to humans.
...all appearance is illusion. There is actually nothing, nothing at all; see H.H. The Sixth Patriarch Hui Neng (638 - 713)...and of course, the so called educated mind will never, ever get this... physics and philosophy are far, far away; way off...they analyze illusion and take it to be real. That is why "things recede further away..."
@MyConsciousnessLives what does not change is real. What you are in your essence; at your core, your 'I AM', does not change, it does not move. "your" I AM is always the same. Ref: Ramana Maharshi, 'I AM That' by Nisargardatta, Jesus' I AM quotes, Mark West and Douglas Harding in youtube, wei wu wei, . Locate your I AM (a feeling NOT a thought) and stay there....regards!
@godno1god Yes, strongly influenced by Kant, clearly. But it seems to me as if this is more in alignment with Schopenhauer's take on Kant than it is with Kant himself.
Bohm was and still is one of the few quantum physicists to get his head out of the books and equations and put his knowledge to addressing the human condition outside of a few pretentious quotes...
Oh, but I did - bweono! In fact I'm in the process of developing a major project based on what Professor Bohm took the time to teach me during the 20 years of our friendship .... So stay tuned.....
When technology will catch up with Bohm's insights he will be hailed as a true genius, like Einstein, in fact more so, because he had more genius that Einstein any bloody day.
Its too bad we cant see life in a view in which we all have a different lens to share the same life, peoples faiths and views are supposed to compliment each other with compassion not with total difference and hatred. Great speech from a fantastic scientist.
Those wishing to contact the individual talking with Professor Bohm in this excerpt (from a one-hour conversation) may do so via the accompanying " @Samothracian" YouTube reference.
Logic is like rings that are connected but never touch. When you move one ring you also move another, but you cannot make them connect in other ways than you move them. The grammatical rules of reality is the same everywhere, but not the same content, not the same words. This is fascinating, indeed.
Awesome, I think he was trying to say, our perception and reality are one and the same, out limited view is contained in the sphere. backed by our own reality.
emotions are a construct of thought, although when most people reach adoloesence and adulthood there emotions start to controll their thought. This is why constant revolution of mind is nessasary.
Wonderful idea, Sam. Hope it gets wide play and recognition! It is quite amazing that there has been a lucid understanding of quantum mechanics for so many years and we have not recognized its use in Science. ;)
This is an excerpt from a one hour conversation I had with Professor Bohm. I am considering making the whole of it available in DVD format with an accompanying copy of the text in booklet form. Those interested can contact me.
Well there is a conversation between Jiddu krishnamurti and David Bohm on youtube which elaborates on the total perception, or the full approach as you verbalize it.
I think they were talking in terms of the thinking brain as the over dominant part and the mind as the whole: so emotions and feelings are part of the mind, not just the thinking brain, which forms ideas and theories. In that light, ideas are seen as the warping factor, distorting reality.
As far as I've come to understand science is not really concerned with truth so much as functional truth and not so much knowledge so much as functional knowledge. what we do with that functional knowledge/truth has to do with the "full approach," which lies in philosophy.
i like to see it as we are like ice cubes in a bowl of water...we slowly melt back into to the water until we become the water...then if a section of that water is made into another ice cube..then that ice cube must consist of part of us....the all are the one..the one is the all....
Glad to find this vid. Bohm, in my estimation was a really brilliant and original thinker. I first heard of him in a book by Rene Weber titled 'Dialogues With Scientists and Sages".
One of his assertions that really intrigued me was that all of physical space is underlaid by a non physical energy field. iI is a disturbance in this field that causes the formation of particles, or quantumn fields. He said that 1 sq. cm. of this non physical field contained more energy than the entire physical universe. Bohm claimed that this is fully supported by infallible quantumn mechanical mathematical models.
Interesting thoughts and responses. Thank you. The idea of "whole existing in the parts" is an old Chinese one too. I will learn more about Bohm, Murti and others.
"A 'living being' is any entity which codes information . . . with the information coded being preserved by natural selection. Thus 'life' is a form of information processing, and the human mind -- and the human soul -- is a very complex computer program" - Frank J.Tipler (physicist).
Everything is information, and reality codes that information by its own procession. By such a definition of life, all matter, and matter itself, is a "living being". Forget the term living, its just a word, what is life without the word for It. Everything is alive, and nothing is conscious.
David Bohm (1917-94) was one of the foremost theoretical physicists of his generation and one of the most influential theorists of the emerging paradigm through which the world is increasingly viewed. Bohm's challenge to the conventional understanding of quantum theory has led scientists to re-examine what it is they are doing and to question the nature of their theories and their scientific methodology.
He was blacklisted by Senator Joe McCarthy's witch-hunt trials while teaching at Princeton. Rather than testifying against his colleagues, he left the U.S. Bohm subsequently became Professor at the University of Sao Paulo, Brazil, the Technion of Haifa, Israel, and at Birkbeck College, University of London; Research Fellow at Bristol University; and was elected Fellow of the Royal Society in 1990. Bohm lived in London and died in 1992.
He wrote his classic book, Quantum Theory, in an attempt to understand quantum theory from Nils Bohr's point of view. After completing the book and communicating with Einstein on it, Bohm remained unsatisfied with the theory. Bohm's challenge to the conventional understanding of quantum theory has led scientists to re-examine what it is they are doing and to question the nature of their theories and their scientific methodology.
In his groundbreaking theory of "wholeness and the implicate order", Bohm proposed a new model of reality that was a revolutionary challenge to physics. In this model, as in a hologram, any element contains enfolded within itself the totality of its universe. Bohm's concept of totality included both matter and mind.
THis may seem poetic at first, but is comes with a solidity that has the scent of dogma. Absolute statements, poetic or not, do not invite the unknown, or the movement of creation. Our response to creation tends to be the movement of thought, which likes to create concrete moments, like mental statues...Creation is always going on, and we try to ride it on top instead of being the unknown.
yep, "God" and "Life" are generalized and vague abstractions. However when we think that they are concrete and specific we end up with the crusades and inquisitions. And very concrete and real people are tortured and burned alive as a result.
Very concrete and real people were tortued and murdered under the orders of atheists such as mao, stalin, pol pot, that should not have happened if belief in god was neccesary for this to happen.
@emptyhighways people like jesus, mohammed, krishna, buddha etc r very evolved beings; they knew all this n much more; not only knew but experienced; but people atdat time werent very evolved so wat they did was play wit their mind 2evolve them faster eg getting married, worshipping, god; all this does something 2 the mind but at the same time they werent lying; wen one evolves so much they lose their desires(lust, gluttony, hate, greed), they realise they r not the body; the msg jus gt distort
@RTRVII Doubt is good but dont mistake doubt 4 truth. Dont hate the gr8 characters f the past; jus bcause lot f idiots follow them. Trust me wen i say they r very evolved beings; they arent interested in anti-gravity aircraft. U hav mistaken evolved; u r thinking the highest is intellect; there is much higher. Hindu religion says this whole existence is just an illusion n now science is saying there is no such thing as matter thanks 2 quantum physique.
@WazDDR Well I understand what you're getting at. That ancient knowledge somehow had been right all the way. They're not. Religion (also hinduism) leads away from the true objective nature of reality (that which we can be sure of).
Know that the copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory (google it) has many opponents today in modern physics.
Indeed, the world of the very small is very strange to us. But connecting modern day scientific theories with ancient 'knowledge' is one bridge too far.
@RTRVII my friend ur science knowledge is ur downfall; its limiting you; science is gr8 but so is religion; thanks 2 religion we r evolving faster; wether u luv it r hate it. dont mistake people like C Darwin 2b not religious; he was very religious; now religion does not mean praying n going 2 holy buildings; he was in true religion; which only happens inside u n dats wat had happened 2him. Jesus said "if u luk deep inside urself dats where ul find the kindom f heaven".
@WazDDR Hmm. Look around at the world today in an honest way. I see science triomphing and religion destroying our world. These are facts, I'm really sorry.
I'm not against the idea of a god, i'm against organized religion, because that is the exact reason why many potential progress in this world is simply not happening right now. Look at atheist countries like Denmark or Sweden, they got best health care, and the fewest civil disorder. Just stating facts here.
@RTRVII dats y i said there r a lot f idiots followin religion; religion means looking inside urself, not this stupid belief there is a god; doesnt prove anything. If u luk @ Jesus story 4 example he was against the idea; dats y he got crucified bcause those so called religious leader ddnt like wat he was saying (Truth); they were 2 stuck in their belief. Humanity wil always find a reason 2fight wether its religion; opposite team; etc; its jus our tendency; until we realise we r not this
@RTRVII i highly recommend these books- "Midnight with the Mystique" and "Autobiography of a Yogi, Yogananda". But learn 2 read the real book dat god wrote "You"; all these books and facts r gr8 but nothing is better than knowing one self.
@RTRVII 4get the whole idea f a god; after all it is jus an 'Idea' in ones head. The bible was written by a wise man (not the words from bearded felow in the sky); 2 help humanity evolve; jus think wat da world ws like @ that time, we were animalistic, we stil r but we have boundary put round us now. U say scientific knowledge, but this knowledge has been always around, its jus dat ppl have finally started 2notice thanks 2 da gradual evolving process we r part f.
@WazDDR I don't agree (yet again) with the claim that scientific knowledge has alway been around. An honest look at history must make this clear. People in the middle ages and before thought lightning was there because the gods were angry at them. Or did fully know about Maxwell equations of electromagnetism?
@RTRVII com on open ur mind a bit; 4instance gravity was always there but in order 2notice it, people had 2evolve a certain bit. Ages ago people tot they cud only make mud huts wit earth but now wit da same earth people r making cars, computers n aeroplanes; the blueprint was always ther but its jus a gradual evolution process (u cant walk witout crawling 1st). Ur 2 stuck n science, its limiting u; its jus LIFE the so called scientific knowledge, it has always been there 4 us 2 notice.
@WazDDR You're wrong (again). Mankind's intelligence hasn't evolved much the last few thousand years. Yet scientific knowledge has taken huge leaps foward.
And realising there is gravity is by far not equal to understanding it. Google the scientific method.
Your view is crazy as hell. Scientific laws are man made, they were not always around (where would they have been when they were around?).
@RTRVII i dont have any views; all im sayin is luk @ life openly; ur missing the point in wat im tryin 2 tel u; scientific laws r jus how this life works n life has been around 4 somtime now, the potential was always there 2 understand it; dats wat im tryin 2 tel u. The future generation wil pass us in understanding the laws f dis universe n they wil create n discover even more. Dont dis the past generation; we wudnt b where we r if it wasnt 4 them n future gen r nothin witout us.
@RTRVII Jus remember my friend nothing is more important than knowin oneself; all feelings watever they r wether, pain, happiness, anger etc, even answers we achieve, n life, all com from wit in us. Its jus dat we got 2 involved inda outside, n thought this thing wil give me da answer r happiness r watever but in reality it comes from within. Dats wat the wise people from the past have been shouting 4 ages but it gets distorted bcause its hard 2 understand since its a deeper reality.
@RTRVII "Scientific laws are man made, they were not always around"
So do you mean to say that there were no scientific laws that governed the universe before man came along? If so then why did scientific laws govern the evolution of man to the point where he could discover those laws?
It's from a one hour Conversation I had with my friend David Bohm in 1990, while we were in Amsterdam, Holland. Dutch TV asked him to do an interview - and he agreed if I would be the "interviewer".
Thank you for your comment. I would be very interested to see the full version of the video. Would you know please if it has been made commercially available? Or would you be able to provide me with a copy, if there are no copyright issues? Many thanks.
I've had plans to release the entire video as a DVD along with a book I'm writing about my life and my long term relationship with Dave (as he perferred to be called) and the man who introduced us way back in '73, J.Krishmaurti... Am presently also looking into the poissibility of using the conversation as a foundation for an extended Television program about all of Dave's work (which we discussed during the hour) and it's relationship to Consciousness.
Thank you for your comments. This is just to let you know that I have sent you an e-mail to your YouTube account. I hope you won't mind, and that you may be able to respond likewise. Thank you.
Einstein liked the book Bohm wrote about it... But both agreed also that there was something missing in QT's statistical conclusions... Which Bohm attempted to go beyond in his final opus - The Undivided Universe.
Hard to believe, but there was a time when there were no cell phones, there was no e-mail, not even computers... and... now hold your breath... no YouTube!
Calling him "Murti" reminds me of a time when I was still working in Hollywood as a comedy writer -- and I got a Christmas Card from a comedy writer friend of mine signed "Krishna and Mrs. Murti"
What was K like? I considered him a good friend...Almost always available to talk to, as a friend... and believe it or not, he had a great sense of humor!
Rather than repeating myself... I just posted a long response to homeborn's "but how did you feelinside" ...let's see if it shows up... if not, I'll send along another one, later...
Complicated question, since there are so many different times to recall... from having lunch together, to walking across the English countryside together, to sitting in a small discussion group talking about what was happening in our thought processes at that moment, to sitting and looking out over the Pacific Ocean together, in total silence -- the "experience" of which I have no residual remembrance...
END OF PART ONE (We're only allowed 500 words) MORE TO COME
However, once... I was walking along a back road in Ojai CA. with my son,who was only about 8 at the time when we happened to cross paths with K... After exchanging a few brief words,we continued on our separate ways... when all of a sudden, everything around us, road, grass, flowers, everything(!) seemed amazingly clearer in my perception... That clarity of vision stayed with me (us?) for at least an hour or so, possibly longer ... until it just "faded away"
The thing that's hard for some to comprehend about K since one rarely saw him except on a stage was that he was not like those pompous, quasi-mystical, holier-than-thou so-called "Spiritual Teachers" -- which is an oxymoron. Under "normal" circumstances, he was a simple, unassuming, quite shy -- unless he knew you -- quite ordinary human being. But when he -- I don't know -- "connected" (!)and words started pouring out with such profound clarity, that was something else again...
"Murti", said a lot more than that... It appears that everyone wants to experience the "Unknown",like it's some humongous Hollywood-style Special Effect! i.e., ("The Big U") --- without first figuring out how to free ourselves from "The Known"...which is what we actually are... i.e. our greed, our hate, our loneliness, our jealousies, our deepest desires, sacred or profane, etc... First figure that out, says "Murti", then maybe.... maybe... if you "leave the window open"...
To quote Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men "You (WE) can't stand the truth."
Also, re: this little gem of yours..."oh dear i expected u for one to be a bit evolved" ... "Murti" stated and David Bohm (remember him? -that's where all this began) agreed, that "there is no such thing as psychological evolution"... and we, my friend, appear to be illustrating this fact,as we continue with this blah, blah, blah ...
When u hear something that u dont like then u become all uppity and superior, "blah blah", surely that is a religious trait and not one for u to bear.
Maybe a good place to begin is to explain what it ain't... And to do that, we can go back to the other guy you enquired about, early on Dave B.'s other friend. Albert E.
... who proved, as far as science can prove anything, that TIME and SPACE are both relative. - Which means that they are both CONSTRUCTS. Of what? Of the Human Mind/Brain.... Are you with me so far?
Make your point, instead of talking about what dead people have said. Im talking about the truth of life and u are intellectualising your comments through other people. Have you not got your own thoughts about Life???
Samothracian, I'd like to raise a point you made... " TIME and SPACE are both relative. - Which means that they are both CONSTRUCTS. Of what? Of the Human Mind/Brain...."
That's not a logical assumption. In any case, it is our PERCEPTION of time that is a human construct, not the reality. By using our brains we do not create time itself, time occurs but our view of it is skewed by our human understanding. IMO, of course.
I agree Samothracian, it is our perception of time as a construct that becomes our reality of it. However, what point were you trying to make before when responding to the question "Sam what is the truth?", as clearly our perception is possibly wrong (not definitely, just possibly).
My point being that the question can't be answered by a mind whose Perception is "skewed" to use your word. Somehow we have to exricate ourselves from the incoherence. Then maybe... just maybe... we can perceive what really "IS"!...Or what some people call "Truth"... and that's what Bohm's and Krishnamurti's work were all about...
> If u think that murti was the only one to ever experience the unkown then u are deluded.
What are we talking about here? "Truth"? Or the "Unknown"? Or something that apparently you're deeply interested in,that you can't quite describe with a word?
does anybody know if the video linked above has been removed...I cant find it on the page
jonnylazer 7 months ago
@godno1god Thanks for the reply. I haven't read as much Schopenhauer as I would have liked to. I've had his Magnum Opus, "The World as Will and Representation", for a few years now but have not gotten around to reading it as of yet. Although I have read a few of his other works; "The Two Fundamental Problems with Ethics", "On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason", and a few of his essays. I must surely say that he is one of my favorite philosophers.
TheBestInterest 7 months ago
Just because we deconstruct the structure, does not mean that it is not there
niriop 7 months ago
@niriop Not quite, in all time in all space it nearly never exists. But existence is just a STATUS at that exact time and exact space reletive to the sensor. This entire 100% correct relative to humans because the true answer over all space and time is not possible to humans.
Neojhun 1 month ago
...all appearance is illusion. There is actually nothing, nothing at all; see H.H. The Sixth Patriarch Hui Neng (638 - 713)...and of course, the so called educated mind will never, ever get this... physics and philosophy are far, far away; way off...they analyze illusion and take it to be real. That is why "things recede further away..."
superjujujuice 7 months ago
@superjujujuice - But then what is real?
MyConsciousnessLives 7 months ago
@MyConsciousnessLives what does not change is real. What you are in your essence; at your core, your 'I AM', does not change, it does not move. "your" I AM is always the same. Ref: Ramana Maharshi, 'I AM That' by Nisargardatta, Jesus' I AM quotes, Mark West and Douglas Harding in youtube, wei wu wei, . Locate your I AM (a feeling NOT a thought) and stay there....regards!
superjujujuice 7 months ago
@superjujujuice - I agree with that. How could I not. Except the feeling part...It's not even that. Is it.
MyConsciousnessLives 7 months ago
@godno1god Yes, strongly influenced by Kant, clearly. But it seems to me as if this is more in alignment with Schopenhauer's take on Kant than it is with Kant himself.
TheBestInterest 7 months ago
also a protege of J. Krishnamurti.e
zazeify 10 months ago
Bohm was and still is one of the few quantum physicists to get his head out of the books and equations and put his knowledge to addressing the human condition outside of a few pretentious quotes...
reivenlocke 11 months ago
Thank You Sir!
human2011able 1 year ago
Oh, but I did - bweono! In fact I'm in the process of developing a major project based on what Professor Bohm took the time to teach me during the 20 years of our friendship .... So stay tuned.....
Samothracian 1 year ago
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DonsanUsake569 1 year ago
When technology will catch up with Bohm's insights he will be hailed as a true genius, like Einstein, in fact more so, because he had more genius that Einstein any bloody day.
amatorynumber 1 year ago
This entire one-hour-plus video can be viewed by GOOGLING the following website:
"WAKING UP TO ALZHEIMER'S". It's under the category "Beyond Limits: A Tribute to David Bohm".
Samothracian 1 year ago 24
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Samothracian 1 year ago
Its too bad we cant see life in a view in which we all have a different lens to share the same life, peoples faiths and views are supposed to compliment each other with compassion not with total difference and hatred. Great speech from a fantastic scientist.
icecreamrulz420ya 1 year ago
Bout time this was said
sgtmcwallace 1 year ago
Those wishing to contact the individual talking with Professor Bohm in this excerpt (from a one-hour conversation) may do so via the accompanying " @Samothracian" YouTube reference.
Samothracian 1 year ago
Logic is like rings that are connected but never touch. When you move one ring you also move another, but you cannot make them connect in other ways than you move them. The grammatical rules of reality is the same everywhere, but not the same content, not the same words. This is fascinating, indeed.
bvssvni 1 year ago
Bohm was the Protegé of Einstein but the learned the most important things from Krishnamurti.
AlecEmpire 1 year ago
Nice and simplified for people like me
Skippingknee 1 year ago
wow
hasseklas56 1 year ago
i wish he was my teacher and i could major in this form of thought in college... and I think the host is kind of confused and intimidated...haha
bennyj38 1 year ago
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Samothracian 1 year ago
Awesome, I think he was trying to say, our perception and reality are one and the same, out limited view is contained in the sphere. backed by our own reality.
betterbett9048 1 year ago
very smart chap
thaluszka1 1 year ago
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turtlen 1 year ago
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turtlen 1 year ago
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turtlen 1 year ago
interesting
turtlen 1 year ago
'theater of the mind' bravo mr bohm! this man is a great thinker
Karlemids 1 year ago
what year was this?
begily 1 year ago
@begily
Samothracian 1 year ago
@begily
Samothracian 1 year ago
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The most fundamental question of all: What is The underlying law of nature.
TedDGPoulos 1 year ago
Hi guys, if you like Bohm read also Bernard Haisch.
ursulgreen 1 year ago
emotions are a construct of thought, although when most people reach adoloesence and adulthood there emotions start to controll their thought. This is why constant revolution of mind is nessasary.
DaktaBubbles 2 years ago
@DaktaBubbles Perhaps evolution movement not revolution.
wlodzio47 2 years ago
Wonderful idea, Sam. Hope it gets wide play and recognition! It is quite amazing that there has been a lucid understanding of quantum mechanics for so many years and we have not recognized its use in Science. ;)
JudyOsmundson 2 years ago
I find David Bohm's ideas intriguing.
7711ish 2 years ago
This is an excerpt from a one hour conversation I had with Professor Bohm. I am considering making the whole of it available in DVD format with an accompanying copy of the text in booklet form. Those interested can contact me.
Samothracian 2 years ago 2
a form of "jnana Yoga' - approaching 'truth' through the mind...
it's one way...
what about a full approach?
include the heart , the body, the emotions?
a
'Full' approach
just because our current (un)Civlization worships the 'mind' doesn't mean it's balanced
tobiaslarsgunnar 2 years ago
Well there is a conversation between Jiddu krishnamurti and David Bohm on youtube which elaborates on the total perception, or the full approach as you verbalize it.
I think they were talking in terms of the thinking brain as the over dominant part and the mind as the whole: so emotions and feelings are part of the mind, not just the thinking brain, which forms ideas and theories. In that light, ideas are seen as the warping factor, distorting reality.
dougmarkham 2 years ago 3
As far as I've come to understand science is not really concerned with truth so much as functional truth and not so much knowledge so much as functional knowledge. what we do with that functional knowledge/truth has to do with the "full approach," which lies in philosophy.
themanofearth 2 years ago
@tobiaslarsgunnar Part of mind control system was to use heart for thinking, and brain emptiness. I prefer worship the mind.
wlodzio47 2 years ago
a complete human is not just mind....
without the heart we create science run amok - there must be a co-operation and balance...imo.
tobiaslarsgunnar 2 years ago 2
Yes of coarse there must be balance. So balance your brain not other part of your body, never use liver for thinking process no no no.
wlodzio47 2 years ago 2
Its kind of hard for me to understand his English.
So much in it anyway!!!
I will wach it as many times as I need.
biondi44 2 years ago
we can never get a hold of real knowledge through mind, but the experiencer is real.
blitzkrieg19031 2 years ago
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i like to see it as we are like ice cubes in a bowl of water...we slowly melt back into to the water until we become the water...then if a section of that water is made into another ice cube..then that ice cube must consist of part of us....the all are the one..the one is the all....
DARKnDODGY 2 years ago
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DARKnDODGY 2 years ago
Indeed
Tusek420 2 years ago
Glad to find this vid. Bohm, in my estimation was a really brilliant and original thinker. I first heard of him in a book by Rene Weber titled 'Dialogues With Scientists and Sages".
DiGiTaLdAzEDM 3 years ago 2
One of his assertions that really intrigued me was that all of physical space is underlaid by a non physical energy field. iI is a disturbance in this field that causes the formation of particles, or quantumn fields. He said that 1 sq. cm. of this non physical field contained more energy than the entire physical universe. Bohm claimed that this is fully supported by infallible quantumn mechanical mathematical models.
DiGiTaLdAzEDM 3 years ago 2
This sounds a lot like Objectivist epistemology.
fortunatus 3 years ago
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BrianTheMusicMan 2 years ago
Wow, I've never seen Bohm on youtube! Never looked... Damn, why did I never look!?!
MrCropper 3 years ago
Samo,
Interesting thoughts and responses. Thank you. The idea of "whole existing in the parts" is an old Chinese one too. I will learn more about Bohm, Murti and others.
Aratheman 3 years ago
Knowledge is a BY PRODUCT
how freaking cool izzat
RexNunc 3 years ago 2
Ofcourse he was lost there was nothing to find. There is always nothing. Nothing is everything and that everything is energy.
selfscienz 3 years ago
And that energy is nothing. It turns out stuff is somewhat circular, but that is the best understanding yet.
MaBu888 3 years ago
Form is emptiness; emptiness is form
JaylaScousa 3 years ago
Wow this is amazing thank you for sharing this!
GeraldP1983 3 years ago
"A 'living being' is any entity which codes information . . . with the information coded being preserved by natural selection. Thus 'life' is a form of information processing, and the human mind -- and the human soul -- is a very complex computer program" - Frank J.Tipler (physicist).
oloscience 4 years ago
Everything is information, and reality codes that information by its own procession. By such a definition of life, all matter, and matter itself, is a "living being". Forget the term living, its just a word, what is life without the word for It. Everything is alive, and nothing is conscious.
phvalue323 3 years ago
Om tut sut...
mountainmystic9 4 years ago
David: you're lost.
CleverDjembe 4 years ago
David Bohm
David Bohm (1917-94) was one of the foremost theoretical physicists of his generation and one of the most influential theorists of the emerging paradigm through which the world is increasingly viewed. Bohm's challenge to the conventional understanding of quantum theory has led scientists to re-examine what it is they are doing and to question the nature of their theories and their scientific methodology.
SCLOGSE 4 years ago 2
david bohm part two of a reply
He was blacklisted by Senator Joe McCarthy's witch-hunt trials while teaching at Princeton. Rather than testifying against his colleagues, he left the U.S. Bohm subsequently became Professor at the University of Sao Paulo, Brazil, the Technion of Haifa, Israel, and at Birkbeck College, University of London; Research Fellow at Bristol University; and was elected Fellow of the Royal Society in 1990. Bohm lived in London and died in 1992.
SCLOGSE 4 years ago 2
david bohm part 3
He wrote his classic book, Quantum Theory, in an attempt to understand quantum theory from Nils Bohr's point of view. After completing the book and communicating with Einstein on it, Bohm remained unsatisfied with the theory. Bohm's challenge to the conventional understanding of quantum theory has led scientists to re-examine what it is they are doing and to question the nature of their theories and their scientific methodology.
SCLOGSE 4 years ago 3
last bohm part...
In his groundbreaking theory of "wholeness and the implicate order", Bohm proposed a new model of reality that was a revolutionary challenge to physics. In this model, as in a hologram, any element contains enfolded within itself the totality of its universe. Bohm's concept of totality included both matter and mind.
SCLOGSE 4 years ago 2
lost?
KoolKinchishKat 4 years ago
i must agree. he was usually lost, which resulted in some very significant insights in to the nature of thought and the sciences.
trevcaru 4 years ago
GOD is Life, we are just a reflection of his greatness....thoughts, in his mind...
thegorilla69 4 years ago
THis may seem poetic at first, but is comes with a solidity that has the scent of dogma. Absolute statements, poetic or not, do not invite the unknown, or the movement of creation. Our response to creation tends to be the movement of thought, which likes to create concrete moments, like mental statues...Creation is always going on, and we try to ride it on top instead of being the unknown.
SCLOGSE 4 years ago 4
yep, "God" and "Life" are generalized and vague abstractions. However when we think that they are concrete and specific we end up with the crusades and inquisitions. And very concrete and real people are tortured and burned alive as a result.
emptyhighways 4 years ago 16
@emptyheadways
The crusades were defensive not offensive.
Very concrete and real people were tortued and murdered under the orders of atheists such as mao, stalin, pol pot, that should not have happened if belief in god was neccesary for this to happen.
WildCatsKitten1 1 year ago
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@WildCatsKitten1
LOL... you are nuts!
completly nuts!
tell the people here how you are proving your belief in god.
people always love to laugh how cretards like you assume:
"X with no evidence, means X is true!"
LOL
transtlantic 1 year ago
@emptyhighways people like jesus, mohammed, krishna, buddha etc r very evolved beings; they knew all this n much more; not only knew but experienced; but people atdat time werent very evolved so wat they did was play wit their mind 2evolve them faster eg getting married, worshipping, god; all this does something 2 the mind but at the same time they werent lying; wen one evolves so much they lose their desires(lust, gluttony, hate, greed), they realise they r not the body; the msg jus gt distort
WazDDR 1 year ago
@WazDDR They knew how quantum theory works? Then why were they riding a donkey instead of flying anti-gravity aircrafts.
Get real dude they didn't know (if they even existed, which is to be doubted historically).
RTRVII 1 year ago
@RTRVII Doubt is good but dont mistake doubt 4 truth. Dont hate the gr8 characters f the past; jus bcause lot f idiots follow them. Trust me wen i say they r very evolved beings; they arent interested in anti-gravity aircraft. U hav mistaken evolved; u r thinking the highest is intellect; there is much higher. Hindu religion says this whole existence is just an illusion n now science is saying there is no such thing as matter thanks 2 quantum physique.
WazDDR 1 year ago
@WazDDR Well I understand what you're getting at. That ancient knowledge somehow had been right all the way. They're not. Religion (also hinduism) leads away from the true objective nature of reality (that which we can be sure of).
Know that the copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory (google it) has many opponents today in modern physics.
Indeed, the world of the very small is very strange to us. But connecting modern day scientific theories with ancient 'knowledge' is one bridge too far.
RTRVII 1 year ago
@RTRVII my friend ur science knowledge is ur downfall; its limiting you; science is gr8 but so is religion; thanks 2 religion we r evolving faster; wether u luv it r hate it. dont mistake people like C Darwin 2b not religious; he was very religious; now religion does not mean praying n going 2 holy buildings; he was in true religion; which only happens inside u n dats wat had happened 2him. Jesus said "if u luk deep inside urself dats where ul find the kindom f heaven".
WazDDR 1 year ago
@WazDDR Hmm. Look around at the world today in an honest way. I see science triomphing and religion destroying our world. These are facts, I'm really sorry.
I'm not against the idea of a god, i'm against organized religion, because that is the exact reason why many potential progress in this world is simply not happening right now. Look at atheist countries like Denmark or Sweden, they got best health care, and the fewest civil disorder. Just stating facts here.
RTRVII 1 year ago
@RTRVII dats y i said there r a lot f idiots followin religion; religion means looking inside urself, not this stupid belief there is a god; doesnt prove anything. If u luk @ Jesus story 4 example he was against the idea; dats y he got crucified bcause those so called religious leader ddnt like wat he was saying (Truth); they were 2 stuck in their belief. Humanity wil always find a reason 2fight wether its religion; opposite team; etc; its jus our tendency; until we realise we r not this
WazDDR 1 year ago
@RTRVII i highly recommend these books- "Midnight with the Mystique" and "Autobiography of a Yogi, Yogananda". But learn 2 read the real book dat god wrote "You"; all these books and facts r gr8 but nothing is better than knowing one self.
WazDDR 1 year ago
@WazDDR I agree on your premise that knowing yourself is important. But I don't agree that it is more important than scientific knowledge.
Are you now saying that the bible wasn't written by god and that it is not the inherent word of "Him"? You're making progress.
RTRVII 1 year ago
@RTRVII 4get the whole idea f a god; after all it is jus an 'Idea' in ones head. The bible was written by a wise man (not the words from bearded felow in the sky); 2 help humanity evolve; jus think wat da world ws like @ that time, we were animalistic, we stil r but we have boundary put round us now. U say scientific knowledge, but this knowledge has been always around, its jus dat ppl have finally started 2notice thanks 2 da gradual evolving process we r part f.
WazDDR 1 year ago
@WazDDR I don't agree (yet again) with the claim that scientific knowledge has alway been around. An honest look at history must make this clear. People in the middle ages and before thought lightning was there because the gods were angry at them. Or did fully know about Maxwell equations of electromagnetism?
Be serious for once.
RTRVII 1 year ago
@RTRVII com on open ur mind a bit; 4instance gravity was always there but in order 2notice it, people had 2evolve a certain bit. Ages ago people tot they cud only make mud huts wit earth but now wit da same earth people r making cars, computers n aeroplanes; the blueprint was always ther but its jus a gradual evolution process (u cant walk witout crawling 1st). Ur 2 stuck n science, its limiting u; its jus LIFE the so called scientific knowledge, it has always been there 4 us 2 notice.
WazDDR 1 year ago
@WazDDR You're wrong (again). Mankind's intelligence hasn't evolved much the last few thousand years. Yet scientific knowledge has taken huge leaps foward.
And realising there is gravity is by far not equal to understanding it. Google the scientific method.
Your view is crazy as hell. Scientific laws are man made, they were not always around (where would they have been when they were around?).
RTRVII 1 year ago
@RTRVII i dont have any views; all im sayin is luk @ life openly; ur missing the point in wat im tryin 2 tel u; scientific laws r jus how this life works n life has been around 4 somtime now, the potential was always there 2 understand it; dats wat im tryin 2 tel u. The future generation wil pass us in understanding the laws f dis universe n they wil create n discover even more. Dont dis the past generation; we wudnt b where we r if it wasnt 4 them n future gen r nothin witout us.
WazDDR 1 year ago
@WazDDR Ok I agree with what you said here.
Thanks for the interesting conversation.
RTRVII 1 year ago
@RTRVII Jus remember my friend nothing is more important than knowin oneself; all feelings watever they r wether, pain, happiness, anger etc, even answers we achieve, n life, all com from wit in us. Its jus dat we got 2 involved inda outside, n thought this thing wil give me da answer r happiness r watever but in reality it comes from within. Dats wat the wise people from the past have been shouting 4 ages but it gets distorted bcause its hard 2 understand since its a deeper reality.
WazDDR 1 year ago
@RTRVII "Scientific laws are man made, they were not always around"
So do you mean to say that there were no scientific laws that governed the universe before man came along? If so then why did scientific laws govern the evolution of man to the point where he could discover those laws?
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz The laws themselves were around. The discussion was about whether mankind always knew about them, which is obviously a no.
RTRVII 1 year ago
@RTRVII Oh I see. Sorry, some of the conversation seemed a bit confusing. I wasn't quite sure what the argument was about.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
what an amazing man. Thanks for the video!
invertedbeardthe2nd 4 years ago
Wisdom!
geronimox1 4 years ago
Thank you for posting this. Where is this extract taken from, please?
afterthebreak 4 years ago
It's from a one hour Conversation I had with my friend David Bohm in 1990, while we were in Amsterdam, Holland. Dutch TV asked him to do an interview - and he agreed if I would be the "interviewer".
Samothracian 4 years ago
Thank you for your comment. I would be very interested to see the full version of the video. Would you know please if it has been made commercially available? Or would you be able to provide me with a copy, if there are no copyright issues? Many thanks.
afterthebreak 4 years ago
I've had plans to release the entire video as a DVD along with a book I'm writing about my life and my long term relationship with Dave (as he perferred to be called) and the man who introduced us way back in '73, J.Krishmaurti... Am presently also looking into the poissibility of using the conversation as a foundation for an extended Television program about all of Dave's work (which we discussed during the hour) and it's relationship to Consciousness.
Samothracian 4 years ago
Sorry... in my haste to respond to "afterthebreak", I mispelled the name of the great J. Krishnamurti...
Samothracian 4 years ago
Thank you for your comments. This is just to let you know that I have sent you an e-mail to your YouTube account. I hope you won't mind, and that you may be able to respond likewise. Thank you.
afterthebreak 4 years ago
Glad to hear that, I'm sure many people would be interested in reading your book, and seeing the DVD. Cheers!
invertedbeardthe2nd 4 years ago
Hi Sam
tell me what did einstien have to say about bohms
quantam theory?
homeborn 4 years ago
Einstein liked the book Bohm wrote about it... But both agreed also that there was something missing in QT's statistical conclusions... Which Bohm attempted to go beyond in his final opus - The Undivided Universe.
Samothracian 4 years ago
Thanx i always wondered why einstien never took the time to meet krishnamurti
homeborn 4 years ago
They traveled in different circles...
Samothracian 4 years ago
PS... Einstein died in 1955 - about half a dozen years before Bohm even heard of Krishnamurti.
Samothracian 4 years ago
Lol ok cool
its amazing that Life never introduced the 2.
poor einstein
homeborn 4 years ago
Hard to believe, but there was a time when there were no cell phones, there was no e-mail, not even computers... and... now hold your breath... no YouTube!
Samothracian 4 years ago
Lol i never thought of that
Actually i like ur mind and u were pretty good
in the interview. So what did u feel when u were around Murti?
homeborn 4 years ago
Calling him "Murti" reminds me of a time when I was still working in Hollywood as a comedy writer -- and I got a Christmas Card from a comedy writer friend of mine signed "Krishna and Mrs. Murti"
What was K like? I considered him a good friend...Almost always available to talk to, as a friend... and believe it or not, he had a great sense of humor!
Samothracian 4 years ago
wow
but how did u "feel" inside when u were with him??
homeborn 4 years ago
Rather than repeating myself... I just posted a long response to homeborn's "but how did you feelinside" ...let's see if it shows up... if not, I'll send along another one, later...
Samothracian 4 years ago
Sam nothing came thru
u need to post 2 or 3 responses to get it thru
homeborn 4 years ago
Okay... I'll try to remember what I said, and send it again...
Samothracian 4 years ago
Thanx
homeborn 4 years ago
Complicated question, since there are so many different times to recall... from having lunch together, to walking across the English countryside together, to sitting in a small discussion group talking about what was happening in our thought processes at that moment, to sitting and looking out over the Pacific Ocean together, in total silence -- the "experience" of which I have no residual remembrance...
END OF PART ONE (We're only allowed 500 words) MORE TO COME
Samothracian 4 years ago
However, once... I was walking along a back road in Ojai CA. with my son,who was only about 8 at the time when we happened to cross paths with K... After exchanging a few brief words,we continued on our separate ways... when all of a sudden, everything around us, road, grass, flowers, everything(!) seemed amazingly clearer in my perception... That clarity of vision stayed with me (us?) for at least an hour or so, possibly longer ... until it just "faded away"
END OF PART TWO-MORE TO COME
Samothracian 4 years ago
The thing that's hard for some to comprehend about K since one rarely saw him except on a stage was that he was not like those pompous, quasi-mystical, holier-than-thou so-called "Spiritual Teachers" -- which is an oxymoron. Under "normal" circumstances, he was a simple, unassuming, quite shy -- unless he knew you -- quite ordinary human being. But when he -- I don't know -- "connected" (!)and words started pouring out with such profound clarity, that was something else again...
Samothracian 4 years ago
did u ever feel the energy of the Unkown?
homeborn 4 years ago
Not that I know of...
Samothracian 4 years ago
but thats all murti really spoke of
the energy of the unkown
once u feel it then little else matters
homeborn 4 years ago
"Murti", said a lot more than that... It appears that everyone wants to experience the "Unknown",like it's some humongous Hollywood-style Special Effect! i.e., ("The Big U") --- without first figuring out how to free ourselves from "The Known"...which is what we actually are... i.e. our greed, our hate, our loneliness, our jealousies, our deepest desires, sacred or profane, etc... First figure that out, says "Murti", then maybe.... maybe... if you "leave the window open"...
Samothracian 4 years ago
forget about murti
it is possible
murti kept far 2 many secrets to himself
we live in the unkown
little kids live in it
homeborn 4 years ago
And all the time I thought this was a serious discussion... Sorry, I'm new to this form of communicating... Have a nice life...
Samothracian 4 years ago
oh dear i expected u for one to be a bit evolved and not so childish. No wonder murti couldnt get thru to any of u fellows.
Why do humans hate the truth?
homeborn 4 years ago
> Why do humans hate the truth?
To quote Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men "You (WE) can't stand the truth."
Also, re: this little gem of yours..."oh dear i expected u for one to be a bit evolved" ... "Murti" stated and David Bohm (remember him? -that's where all this began) agreed, that "there is no such thing as psychological evolution"... and we, my friend, appear to be illustrating this fact,as we continue with this blah, blah, blah ...
Samothracian 4 years ago
> Why do humans hate the truth?
> To quote Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men "You (WE) can't stand the truth."
Oops! I may have misquoted Mr. Nicholson, who, by the way I spotted attending at least one Krishnamurti Talk back in the '70's.
I believe the exact quote is: "You (WE) can't handle the truth".
The word "handle" seems much more to the point.
... and blah, blah, blah...
Samothracian 4 years ago
Sam what is the truth?
And what has truth got to do with playboy Jack?
When u hear something that u dont like then u become all uppity and superior, "blah blah", surely that is a religious trait and not one for u to bear.
was murti 'god'?
homeborn 4 years ago
> Sam what is the truth?
Maybe a good place to begin is to explain what it ain't... And to do that, we can go back to the other guy you enquired about, early on Dave B.'s other friend. Albert E.
... who proved, as far as science can prove anything, that TIME and SPACE are both relative. - Which means that they are both CONSTRUCTS. Of what? Of the Human Mind/Brain.... Are you with me so far?
Samothracian 4 years ago
Make your point, instead of talking about what dead people have said. Im talking about the truth of life and u are intellectualising your comments through other people. Have you not got your own thoughts about Life???
homeborn 4 years ago
Samothracian, I'd like to raise a point you made... " TIME and SPACE are both relative. - Which means that they are both CONSTRUCTS. Of what? Of the Human Mind/Brain...."
That's not a logical assumption. In any case, it is our PERCEPTION of time that is a human construct, not the reality. By using our brains we do not create time itself, time occurs but our view of it is skewed by our human understanding. IMO, of course.
blahdelablah 4 years ago
You're right ...but so am I... it's our PERCEPTION of a CONSTRUCT... and that's what becomes our Reality.
Samothracian 4 years ago
I agree Samothracian, it is our perception of time as a construct that becomes our reality of it. However, what point were you trying to make before when responding to the question "Sam what is the truth?", as clearly our perception is possibly wrong (not definitely, just possibly).
blahdelablah 4 years ago
My point being that the question can't be answered by a mind whose Perception is "skewed" to use your word. Somehow we have to exricate ourselves from the incoherence. Then maybe... just maybe... we can perceive what really "IS"!...Or what some people call "Truth"... and that's what Bohm's and Krishnamurti's work were all about...
Samothracian 4 years ago
Thanks Samothracian, for answering my questions.
blahdelablah 4 years ago
poor chap
i respected murti when he was alive but its astounding
that he was unable to help anyone who went to his talks let alone knew him, to evolve.
Just because murti said that there was no such thing as psychological evolution, and obviously bohm agreed, doesnt mean its true.
If u think that murti was the only one to ever experience the unkown then u are deluded.
homeborn 4 years ago
> If u think that murti was the only one to ever experience the unkown then u are deluded.
What are we talking about here? "Truth"? Or the "Unknown"? Or something that apparently you're deeply interested in,that you can't quite describe with a word?
Samothracian 4 years ago
Lol u have got to be kidding.
Truth or the unkown or....
what other word would u prefer me to use?
U think they are seperate???????????????
homeborn 4 years ago
>what other word would u prefer me to use?
U think they are seperate???????????????
Forgt about what I think, I'm absolutely fascinated by this extraordinary web of assumptions you seem to be weaving... please, go on...
Samothracian 4 years ago
Big ThankYou !!!
vertikaal 4 years ago
thank you very much for the upload :)
buckturgidson9000 4 years ago
True scientist
selfscienz 4 years ago
thank you
Rudy1966 4 years ago