Gene Roddenberry made it clear many times in interviews he is against religion. and the concept of trek is exactly what picard is saying in this video.
@Fbueller129 what I if we're the first. I've always thought this. The reason we don't see any advanced life is because we are the first. If you've ever watched stargate, I image our race as the ancients. And in millions of years we will have moved on but in our wake we have brought life to the galaxy.
@lilurik In the absence of evidence to the contrary, given the heat death of the universe is at least 10^100 years in the future and we're around only 13.7Bn years in it's logical to assume that. The presumption of mediocrity is without basis until accurate surveys of other solar systems are conducted.
@lilurik the thought of humanity being the 1st intelligent race in our galaxy has always terrified me... that's a lot of responsibility to be placed on our shoulders.
This has always been my one beef with Star Trek in general and I'm an Atheist myself. People will always need something larger than themselves to believe in. Me personally, I believe that there are beings/entities in this universe that are so far beyond our current scientific understanding that they could be mistakenly labeled as "God".
@Fbueller129 For the Star Trek Universe to exist, the humans would have to be primarily atheist. Humanity's achievements in that universe would never be possible with religion still in power.
Didnt star trek have a lot of the religion in star trek. I mean the vulcans believe in a soul. The Klingon where dedicated to the religion of Kahless and Kortar the first Klingon. DS9 had a strong religious element with the bajoran. Even Chakotay was highly spiritual.. I dont see star trek devoid of religion. Hell there was even a episode of TOS that even talked about parallel earth full of Romans with TV Sets. Where a particular religion was coming about. Im agnostic. But you people bore me.
And if you watched the show you can see how those beliefs are not just superstitions as the bajorans worshipped actual existing beings who originated from the bajoran wormhole. They were highly advanced alien beings who manifested themselves.
Kahless was a real klingon who united the species, not some invisible god, he was more like a divinified hero. The vulcans didn't believe in a soul, they knew that one's conciousness can be transferred from one being to another with telepathy.
And they would be the first to tell you that they do not believe in anything and that faith is totally gone from their lives. Chekotay's spirituality also turned out to be inspired by ancient aliens from the Delta Quadrant. So that only leaves TOS, of course they didn't dare speak out much against religion in the sixties, the bigott hypocritical masses would have burned them alive.
"It matters if the rest of the story is true or untrue if you care about history" -
In my earlier comments I already told you that the bible is NOT a source of historical fact. The rest of the story is nothing more than a parable with a lesson. There is nothing special about a parable with a lesson. People do not worship characters in a parable with a lesson. In other words, without the 'miracles' there would be no religion whatsoever.
I know the stories weren't taken "out of thin air". I don't have a problem with casually believing a normal story. My problem is when people believe the specifically supernatural part of the story. Who cares if the rest of the story is true or untrue? The only relevant or interesting information concerns the supernatural "miracles" that supposedly occur.
I was raised Southern Baptist, so I understand what the bible reads. It is an extremely long story describing events that are important to Christians. Some events in the story are factual, but just like the story of Spiderman, New York is real but Spiderman is not. Since the entire story is heresay, there is no reason to believe the ordinary tales occured, much less the supernatural ones.
Any research into biblical history would yeild the same result. By all means, don't take my word for it. Use any search engine you like and investigate the historicity of the bible. You'll be surprised what you learn, trust me. By disbelief, I meant my disbelief in the bible as a source of historical fact. I have no reason to believe what the bible says is true.
None of the writers of the New Testament actually met Jesus. Since every last verse of the New Testament was kept alive only by word of mouth for decades until it was written down, it is heresay by definition. Whats more, you've accepted this heresay of heresay as historical fact. My disbelief sounds more warranted now, right?
"Do you really think all the obvious contradictions in the Gospels were made there because the people who wrote the Bible were stupid?" -
The bible was written by many different people throughout a long period of time. Contradictions are expected in a story that wasn't written down until decades after the stories were told. To answer the question, yes I believe the bronze age people that wrote the bible were stupid. Heresay was enough to convince them that a miracle occured.
@AngeloNiklis A myth is an evidenceless claim that no longer has any followers. ( i.e. The existence of Thor, Wotan, Ra, etc.)
The writers of Star Trek will admit they invented the show. Too bad the writers of the bible didn't know that man invented god to explain what they couldn't.
You obviously don't understand Star Trek. You say you can understand a complete lie (myth), but you don't like it when the truth is bent (science fiction)? "Actual mythology" is just an extinct religion. Chrisianity will inevitably become a myth just like all the others. There are no exceptions.
We are learning so much about life every-day that it is hard for me to believe in a god. Every day we are coming up with methods of explaining various elements in this universe (And finding more questions too!). Yes their is so much left to be discovered, but does that mean a god or superior being exists? I say no. Time is the only constraint to understanding the universe. Honestly I feel exactly how this episode portrays religion, it is only a hindrance in our advancement as a society.
We overlook how blatantly racist this episode is. Apparently, vulcanoid lifeforms are inherently more rational than other humanoids, thus they abandon religion at a far earlier stage of development than other races.
And regarding militants like Dawkins, we often forget that Occam's Razor was invented by a religious man. That Newton was at the least a deist. And that much of the philosophy of science derives in part from the philosophy of religion.
I want atheist to understand something--shedding spirituality altogether does not advance one's intellect..and although many of us non-believers got that way because of our disgust with organized religion and its followers, I believe there's a lot of redeeming values in having a relationship with faith and spirituality.
@Quisquellano26 You said there were a lot of redeeming values in having a relationship with faith, now if you can do a good deed without faith whats the use of faith then?
@baldurus1 Star Trek never looked down on religion...Species like the Klingons and the Bajorans were deeply spiritual.. It was Roddenberry's intention to emphasize that respect for other's beliefs is ultimately the most redeeming value of all...
@baldurus1 While that person was ringing your doorbell, judging you, another religious person somewhere in the world was feeding poor children, on behalf of his beliefs..So, why let the doorbell ringer be a symbol for his beliefs, but not the other?
@TheSonicGod And what is the truth? I find it hard to believe that the Big Bang would have ever happened, and the whole universe brought into existance had not some supernatural power--ie God--beyond our understanding willed it into existence. Astrophysics can gives us a very clear picture of what the early universe was like, but still cannot completely explain its very origin. All that matter packed into one tiny point had to come from somewhere, and I though matter couldn't be created?
@OmegaVesko No, I firmly believe in the Big Bang. I just find it hard to believe that it happened completely randomly, that there's really no real reason why the universe and everything in it (including us) exists. I put my faith in God AND science.
@ImaRocketDog1 Religion explains things without any evidence of existence. Science will eventually explain things, but doesn't make any claims until it DOES have evidence.
@TheSonicGod Now we all know that is a fails statement. Where is the proof of the big bang theory? Has anyone actually seen these mythical particles of light that made all matter? Has anyone proven the existence of worm holes or hyperspace? Science has claimed all these things and more without one shred of solid proof. Religion has proof that people like you ignore all the time. It has eyewitnesses, artifacts with amazing properties, and physical manifestations on people.
@BondFreek At least science is open for debate and changes based upon evidence... where as religion... well... it's kinda like " ZOMG DONT ASK QUESTION OR U BURN IN HELL!" "NEVER QUESTION GOD!"
And yes, the particle smasher is recreating the beginning of the universe as we speak, you wouldn't know this cause you're so busy chasing your stupid fairies. Didn't the bible say it's okay to rape btw?
The most annoying thing tho... is that Why would an omniscient God allow evil in the first place..?
@jolohmm Oh! I LOVE Ignorant people who act like jackasses, when they are on the ropes. So "the particle smasher is recreating the beginning of the universe as we speak" Well I guess that must be true except; according to scientists you can't recreate the universe by smashing partials. You would know this if you actually studied instead of watching Barny rap badly. I quote George Burns from "O God Book 2" “Have you ever had an up without a down?" You can't know good without evil.
@jolohmm It is You who chases fairies, religious people don't believe in such crap. As for the "rape" shit you and your kind keep using to attack what you don't understand... That was in one passage in the Old Testament and latter refuted by Jesus. Learn your subject because the more you try to attack the more you look like an ASS.
@BondFreek But I thought everything in the bible was true? :O Oh wait....
Also, when you quoted "“Have you ever had an up without a down?" You can't know good without evil." An infinitely loving God wouldn't make evil in the first place, unless he is limited & malevolent. Ah yes, I'm sure I didn't say recreate the universe, i said recreating the..beginning... of the universe <3 Maybe we'd understand more of the big bang if that one congressman didn't ask "Will we find God with this machine" <3
@jolohmm 1st How would you know what an all loving God would do, where you ever an all loving God? 2nd. that part is redundant; you can’t recreate the beginning of the universe without recreating the universe. That's like saying "I did not get Carrie pregnant I only donated my sperm to form a baby." 3rd, whatever a congressman says doesn’t affect science. 4th. Good & Evil are just words to describe ones actions. A person is described as evil because he does evil things.
@BondFreek I'm not an all Loving God, but I sure as hell won't damn my loved ones to eternal damnation if they did something I specifically told them not to. 2.) What's redundant? The logical definition of infinity that can't be applied to god? 3.) The texas collider which was supposed to be 3x more powerful than the collider in geneva was cancelled (Thanks christianity) 4.) Now this is redundant, sure good and evil are just words. But i'm sure a good god won't create evil just coz <3
@BondFreek If a person is described as evil because they do evil things... that probably means that the most evil people in history were... well, religious. Look at the crusades, the Inquisition, missionaries etc. These people brought nothing but pain and suffering to others.
Don't get me wrong, religion in itself isn't a bad thing, but institutions that capitalize on other people suffering are unjust. If Jesus were here today to see what people do in his name, he'd be appalled.
@Pwnzor729 I disagree... Jesus would be and is proud of most of the religions today because they overcame their hatred. Are the Crusades and Inquisitions still happening today? No! And the Missionaries only preach they don't force anyone. The only people Jesus would be appalled by are the terrorists and Atheists, in that order. Hatred in religion is almost gone. Even the once Whites only Mormon religion now has people of all races. Get the Facts.
@BondFreek The fact that jesus and god allowed all those crusades, inquisitions, and other bullshit to happen in the first place (While having all the capability to prevent it) is enough evidence for ANYONE - of course who has a rational mind, to think that they are both equally malevolent dictators; if not both Equally Malevolent Divine Dictators.
@BondFreek I fail to see how I don't "get the facts." So, Jesus would be appalled by terrorists, in which case the US (the majority of which are Christian) bombing the shit out of civilians in foreign countries (Nagasaki, Vietnam, the Balkans, Iraq etc) clearly seems like terrorism to me. Yet, the victims - who are not Christian - get punished?
Fear and hatred are still being used today, as tools. I don't think this is the true face of religion, but politicians ARE exploiting it.
@Pwnzor729 Who told you that the US was bombing civilians? Was it on the news? No. Did Obama say it after he took office? No. I know a General told you, NO? Then it must have been your parents or teachers in school. NEWS FLASH! They don't know what is really going on so they assumed based on their personal bias. Civilians die in war that is & always been a sad fact. But which would you rather have a dozen civilians caught in the cross fire or billions of civilians murderd?
@Pwnzor729 Nagasaki was done only after a long moral debate. The decision to drop the bomb came after it was decided that it was better to kill a thousand to end the war then to let the war continue & kill millions. Look up the history of the H bomb & read what Einstein & the president wrote. History is about motives (true motives not the liberal's speculations of motives) of people in power & involved in the actual history. Get the facts on your own. Don't take anyone’s word for it.
@BondFreek It wasn't a thousand that died, it was over 200000, in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. Of course, killing that many people was totally necessary... the war had only just ended in Europe, and Japan was already on the brink of collapse. Yeah, that was completely justified... Jesus (a man of peace?) would understand.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound facetious, but there is no way to justify that. It's inhuman.
@BondFreek Hitler was still developing missiles..? He died in April of 1945. They bombed Japan later in August that year. Unless Hitler was developing missiles from beyond the grave, I don't see how he have done that.
@Pwnzor729 I stand corrected. However I cording to my research (away from the miss leadings of my teachers) “For six months before the atomic bombings, the United States called for a surrender of Japan in the Potsdam Declaration on July 26, 1945. The Japanese government ignored this ultimatum. By executive order of President Harry S. Truman, the U.S. dropped the nuclear weapon.” It is clear that if he had not Japan would have dragged out the war for at least another year.
@BondFreek I can see that commenting on a topic such as this was a mistake. For the record, I don't want to change anyone's opinion here, I'm simply laying mine out on the table. I should also say that I don't denounce any religions you might have, only that I think we as a people have got a long way to go, and our ability to misuse something so powerful as religion is immense.
I guess that's the point of Star Trek... for all their advancements, they're still changing and learning.
He says this but in "tavesty" with the episode of Q and the other life Picard had he said "If this is the after life I am sure your not that God." Other shows characters say one thing yet they believe another. A good example is Full Metal Aclhemist where Ed says "there is no god just logic and science." Then in one episode says "We are nothing more then ant's by passing into God's territory We paid the price."
@jp3711nc1 In other words, in later episodes Edward is acknowledging the existence of God, his awesome power, and the responsibilities that come with such power. Over the course of the show I believe that his views changed as he saw what he did. Did he fully acknowledge God for who and what he was, debatable, but he at least came to the realization that there is A God .
There's a distinction made in this scene between religion and a "belief in the supernatural", "the dark ages of superstition and ignorance and fear". Some people posting here miss that point. This is the very thing that Worf had to come to realize with his Klingon religious heritage--one can recognize, appreciate, and even celebrate one's religious heritage and remain part of it (it would be hard to do otherwise), without being superstitious or irrational. Many religious people today know this.
the neutral zone is a gd example of stupid moralism, and their so called prime directive allows them to let entie worlds get detroyed without lifting a finger. see star trek voyager episodes. I never like Star Trek, maybe the original series still Baylon 5 is much more mature and intresting!
I know that star trek has stupid morals, yes they are so enlighten that they make the spanish inquisition look like angels, and to see the parody star trek has became a religion to many people!
My religion is Star Trek. I go to Star Trek Church three times a week, and homeschool my kids because the local Star Trek High School won't even teach Star Trek as fact in science classes.
I want the government to display the Prime Directive on every Court House - something they refuse to do, as they are clearly oppressing me and my beliefs and my right to bring up my family in a manner of my choosing.
Alienating (pardon the pun) me for believing in Star Trek is wrong.
@jazzx251 Wow, you are kidding, right? Look, I am a huge Trekkie myself, but I am a Christian and only watch Star Trek because I like it. Dude. Star Trek is a only a freakin TV show. I'm not "alienating" you, I'm just trying to help you. There's no Star Trek church or high school. How did you ever come to feel this way? I know you have to be kidding. Don't start acting like these people in "Who Watches the Watchers."
i hate star trek becuase it always has this secular agenda imbeded within its philosophy and also it has all these moral parodoxes within its themes they claim to be pacifists yet when things dont go the way think it ought to go there ready to blast aliens to kingdom come and every problem is solved either through force or by simply badgering the alien to death with some human moral monologue.
@glennheston I've met a few people who had the good fortune to grow up as atheists. To me they seem like characters from an advanced civilization out of science fiction.
@MrAdvancedAtheist I didn't grow up atheist, it was more like no religious beliefs what so ever. It was never discussed, except in a "that's something strange people believe in" kinda way. I remember when Star Trek first aired. That's where I learned my morals from. That and comic books. I have better morals than any religion could ever give me. How did you grow up?
@glennheston if I were I would not advertise the fact that my primary sources of moral influence is star trek and comic books. it's people like you that promote a negative stereo of trekkies in general
@SpockBorg5 Show me where the bible has better morals than Star Trek. Not your opinion, the real stuff. And it's "stereotype". What you said makes it sound like I'm without a stereo.
@MrAdvancedAtheist I try to imagine growing up in an atheist family... Instead of wasting Sundays doing jack sht, you enjoy free time and relax. Instead of wasting time praying, praising God, thanking him for everything and constantly living by something some sheep herder said thousands of years ago, you live according to reason, human morality and intelligence.
@Samura1gamer I can't believe you got any thumbs up for this. I'm sure we all know exactly what you're referencing here and it's not the fault of the common belief shared by members of the church that poor children have been abused and continue to be by a handful of disgusting, evil men who do not deserve to call themselves men of God. Don't blame religion for a terrible crime that should be blamed on humans using their free will to act against God and harm others.
@ImaRocketDog1 "God" is just as evil as the people you are referencing. Especially the way he is portrayed in the Old Testament. skepticsannotatedbible(dot)com/cruelty/long.html
@OmegaVesko I don't tend to take everything in the Old Testament (especially really early in it) all that literally. Plus, as a historical (not necessarily in content, but in context and when it was written) document, the Bible was a product of its times and it's not too much of a stretch to say was influenced by the personal beliefs spiritual and otherwise of its writers. If we were to take the Bible literally, slavery would be seen as legal and women would have zero rights.
There, atheism has finally won out, while not even scientific giants such as Richard Dawkins and Richard Feynman might had not convinced religious fundies to abandon religion, but when a great man like Patrick Stewart tells you religion can ruin a civilization, you had better damn listen to the man. And oh, FUCK YEAH!
You might get a kick out of "The Poetry of Science" vid here on youTube. Mr. Dawkins has no pop-culture knowledge at all. Neil deGrasse Tyson tells him "he needs to get out more". Also a great video on it own, two giants stomping around the playground. I'll give props to Richard Dawkins. He's no slouch.
all those morons who say Star trek made them an atheis,t need to be beaten over their head continuously, because the meanings in Star trek have gone WAAAAAAY over their heads.
I watched all of TNG DS9 and Voyager and the shows opinion on religion seemed to flip flop all over the place depending on the writers. Star trek isnt very consistent on the topic.
But I do think it slowly got more and more pro religion as it went along.
It also turned to shit some time after the first season or so of Voyager.
@BubbleGumNipples Actually there is a very good episode of Voyager that basically ridicules the modern Creation vs Evolution argument taking fiormly the side of Evolution.
@manoljo Uh, the first couple of seasons of TNG were very much unfriendly to religion and the supernatural. As Star Trek went on, the writers started to pander to the religious more and more in desperate and hilarious attempts to get better ratings.
But I really don't think Star Trek made anyone an atheist. It certainly didn't make me one... that had to come much later in life.
@manoljo , but the meanings hardly matter. Star Trek inspires an interest in science, which in turn inspires an interest in evidence and logic. Most people who take that trek are atheist.
Star Trek was one of several contributing factors which led to my atheism, and Im sure thats what those other people mean. Not everyone takes the same road to reach the same destination and inspiration often comes from unlikely sources.
It was pretty much the same for me but the program that did it for me was Stargate. With most of their enemies being Aliens posing as gods, they for 10 seasons explorer the question "What is a god"?".
I'm not saying Stargate converted me but it further opened my eyes and really made me think about all the gods we humans have thought up through the ages. Once you study all of the available evidence the only logical conclusion you can reach is that gods are inventions of humans.
@maggru91 I agree, it made me question what it meant to be a God. Omniscient? Omnipresent? All powerful?(And how much power is all powerful) It's a very good question.
@starfishsicko It had some factor in determining my interest in science when i was a child. i was born in 1993 when TNG was getting close to being over and i watched it with my father, i suppose seeing the (admittedly) optimistic potential of mankind instilled an early yearn for knowledge.
I doubt that our eventual lounge into space (or destruction from pitiful arguments) will be anything close to Star Trek, but it can be our goal for the future.
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CrazyKraut20 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Gene Roddenberry made it clear many times in interviews he is against religion. and the concept of trek is exactly what picard is saying in this video.
miloootic 1 week ago
Picard keeps his verbal pimp hand strong.
Lightning4119 3 weeks ago
@Lightning4119 lol epic sentence was epic
MrRagingbovine 1 week ago
Can't argue with Picard!!
chestypants78 4 weeks ago 2
@Fbueller129 what I if we're the first. I've always thought this. The reason we don't see any advanced life is because we are the first. If you've ever watched stargate, I image our race as the ancients. And in millions of years we will have moved on but in our wake we have brought life to the galaxy.
lilurik 1 month ago
@lilurik In the absence of evidence to the contrary, given the heat death of the universe is at least 10^100 years in the future and we're around only 13.7Bn years in it's logical to assume that. The presumption of mediocrity is without basis until accurate surveys of other solar systems are conducted.
nilbud 1 month ago
@lilurik the thought of humanity being the 1st intelligent race in our galaxy has always terrified me... that's a lot of responsibility to be placed on our shoulders.
chaosami2 4 weeks ago
Picard rules. Best Starfleet captain by far.
MrImastinker 1 month ago
This has always been my one beef with Star Trek in general and I'm an Atheist myself. People will always need something larger than themselves to believe in. Me personally, I believe that there are beings/entities in this universe that are so far beyond our current scientific understanding that they could be mistakenly labeled as "God".
Fbueller129 1 month ago
@Fbueller129 Read more books. Science, history, and philosophy are good places to start--maybe rationality will kick in at some point.
Gr8Layks 1 month ago
@Fbueller129 *Facepalm*
dilt4 1 month ago
@Fbueller129 For the Star Trek Universe to exist, the humans would have to be primarily atheist. Humanity's achievements in that universe would never be possible with religion still in power.
Kllgg 1 month ago
@Kllgg Very true.
hypnotizerequiem 3 weeks ago
lol @ religious morons trying to justify their archaic beliefs
Parkerkun 2 months ago
Under this comment lies a mountain of hate, THE HATE ENDS HERE!!
(Of course I didn't really look I'm just assuming there's a mointain of hate underneath me.)
RippedLama 2 months ago
@RippedLama No it's fluffy cloud of love.
nilbud 1 month ago
Didnt star trek have a lot of the religion in star trek. I mean the vulcans believe in a soul. The Klingon where dedicated to the religion of Kahless and Kortar the first Klingon. DS9 had a strong religious element with the bajoran. Even Chakotay was highly spiritual.. I dont see star trek devoid of religion. Hell there was even a episode of TOS that even talked about parallel earth full of Romans with TV Sets. Where a particular religion was coming about. Im agnostic. But you people bore me.
Tuber77 2 months ago
@Tuber77
And if you watched the show you can see how those beliefs are not just superstitions as the bajorans worshipped actual existing beings who originated from the bajoran wormhole. They were highly advanced alien beings who manifested themselves.
Kahless was a real klingon who united the species, not some invisible god, he was more like a divinified hero. The vulcans didn't believe in a soul, they knew that one's conciousness can be transferred from one being to another with telepathy.
RevanorSzeged 2 months ago
@RevanorSzeged
And they would be the first to tell you that they do not believe in anything and that faith is totally gone from their lives. Chekotay's spirituality also turned out to be inspired by ancient aliens from the Delta Quadrant. So that only leaves TOS, of course they didn't dare speak out much against religion in the sixties, the bigott hypocritical masses would have burned them alive.
RevanorSzeged 2 months ago
@Tuber77 To be fair, the Vulcans believe in a soul because they can more or less put it in a petri dish.
mechanixis 1 month ago
i now like Picard again :)
DemoraX 2 months ago
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jolohmm 2 months ago
@raymontmasse Well then, I hope you die and stop wasting our oxygen.
Abedeuss 2 months ago
@raymontmasse Umm. I have no idea what the fuck is your problem :) I guess you're just angry that I dislike your religion or something.
Abedeuss 2 months ago
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Templetonq 3 months ago
Bravo, Captain Picard! Those are words worthy of a starship captain, and passion befitting of a champion of humankind.
lordjesq 3 months ago
@AngeloNiklis
"It matters if the rest of the story is true or untrue if you care about history" -
In my earlier comments I already told you that the bible is NOT a source of historical fact. The rest of the story is nothing more than a parable with a lesson. There is nothing special about a parable with a lesson. People do not worship characters in a parable with a lesson. In other words, without the 'miracles' there would be no religion whatsoever.
drche420 3 months ago
@AngeloNiklis
I know the stories weren't taken "out of thin air". I don't have a problem with casually believing a normal story. My problem is when people believe the specifically supernatural part of the story. Who cares if the rest of the story is true or untrue? The only relevant or interesting information concerns the supernatural "miracles" that supposedly occur.
drche420 3 months ago
@AngeloNiklis
I was raised Southern Baptist, so I understand what the bible reads. It is an extremely long story describing events that are important to Christians. Some events in the story are factual, but just like the story of Spiderman, New York is real but Spiderman is not. Since the entire story is heresay, there is no reason to believe the ordinary tales occured, much less the supernatural ones.
drche420 3 months ago
@AngeloNiklis
Any research into biblical history would yeild the same result. By all means, don't take my word for it. Use any search engine you like and investigate the historicity of the bible. You'll be surprised what you learn, trust me. By disbelief, I meant my disbelief in the bible as a source of historical fact. I have no reason to believe what the bible says is true.
drche420 3 months ago
@AngeloNiklis
None of the writers of the New Testament actually met Jesus. Since every last verse of the New Testament was kept alive only by word of mouth for decades until it was written down, it is heresay by definition. Whats more, you've accepted this heresay of heresay as historical fact. My disbelief sounds more warranted now, right?
drche420 3 months ago
@AngeloNiklis
"Do you really think all the obvious contradictions in the Gospels were made there because the people who wrote the Bible were stupid?" -
The bible was written by many different people throughout a long period of time. Contradictions are expected in a story that wasn't written down until decades after the stories were told. To answer the question, yes I believe the bronze age people that wrote the bible were stupid. Heresay was enough to convince them that a miracle occured.
drche420 3 months ago
@AngeloNiklis
The only other usage of the word 'myth' is an unverifiable parable. "The ancients" believed in gods just as people do now.
"how do you know what the writers of the Bible viewed as god, or whether they all believed God was 'real'" -
That is quite possibly the dumbest question I've heard/read in a month. I won't dignify it with an answer.
drche420 3 months ago
@AngeloNiklis A myth is an evidenceless claim that no longer has any followers. ( i.e. The existence of Thor, Wotan, Ra, etc.)
The writers of Star Trek will admit they invented the show. Too bad the writers of the bible didn't know that man invented god to explain what they couldn't.
drche420 3 months ago
guys play star treck online free now is sick
jorgezing7204 3 months ago
@AngeloNiklis
You obviously don't understand Star Trek. You say you can understand a complete lie (myth), but you don't like it when the truth is bent (science fiction)? "Actual mythology" is just an extinct religion. Chrisianity will inevitably become a myth just like all the others. There are no exceptions.
drche420 4 months ago
I would vote for Patrick Stewart as President of Earth.
drche420 4 months ago
Jean Luc Pecard, FTW!
busterbox 4 months ago
We need him here NOW!
Rascaduanok 4 months ago
@AngeloNiklis new ageism is more to their liking than the truth !!!
TheStephen2009 4 months ago
I knew it, Picard was mistaken as Jesus when he fell back in time!
smiley118118 4 months ago
I am not a Trekkie, but Captain Picard WIN
gooders1002 4 months ago
We are learning so much about life every-day that it is hard for me to believe in a god. Every day we are coming up with methods of explaining various elements in this universe (And finding more questions too!). Yes their is so much left to be discovered, but does that mean a god or superior being exists? I say no. Time is the only constraint to understanding the universe. Honestly I feel exactly how this episode portrays religion, it is only a hindrance in our advancement as a society.
xXclockstopXx 4 months ago
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xXclockstopXx 4 months ago
We overlook how blatantly racist this episode is. Apparently, vulcanoid lifeforms are inherently more rational than other humanoids, thus they abandon religion at a far earlier stage of development than other races.
And regarding militants like Dawkins, we often forget that Occam's Razor was invented by a religious man. That Newton was at the least a deist. And that much of the philosophy of science derives in part from the philosophy of religion.
Just pointing out uncomfortable facts :)
TheKNH86 4 months ago
I want atheist to understand something--shedding spirituality altogether does not advance one's intellect..and although many of us non-believers got that way because of our disgust with organized religion and its followers, I believe there's a lot of redeeming values in having a relationship with faith and spirituality.
Quisquellano26 5 months ago
@Quisquellano26 Name one that can't be achieved trough secular means.
baldurus1 4 months ago
@baldurus1 If a good deed is achieved either through secular means or spirituality, what does it matter?
Quisquellano26 4 months ago
@Quisquellano26 You said there were a lot of redeeming values in having a relationship with faith, now if you can do a good deed without faith whats the use of faith then?
baldurus1 4 months ago
@baldurus1 Star Trek never looked down on religion...Species like the Klingons and the Bajorans were deeply spiritual.. It was Roddenberry's intention to emphasize that respect for other's beliefs is ultimately the most redeeming value of all...
Quisquellano26 4 months ago
@Quisquellano26 Of course you should have respect for others beliefs, but that's a 2 way street.
When someone rings my doorbell at 7 in the morning and tells me i'm going to hell, that's when my respect runs out.
baldurus1 4 months ago
@baldurus1 While that person was ringing your doorbell, judging you, another religious person somewhere in the world was feeding poor children, on behalf of his beliefs..So, why let the doorbell ringer be a symbol for his beliefs, but not the other?
Quisquellano26 4 months ago
@Quisquellano26 Because you can feed poor children without religion, you can NOT persecute people without religion.
baldurus1 4 months ago
GODda love that star trek gave christianity a slam ... I love it.
sterayd 5 months ago
Religion is for people who refuse to understand the truth.
TheSonicGod 6 months ago 14
@TheSonicGod I'd have to say that religion is for people who can't understand the truth.
glennheston 5 months ago
@TheSonicGod Dogma is for people that refuse to think critically.
WaySide66 3 months ago
@TheSonicGod And what is the truth? I find it hard to believe that the Big Bang would have ever happened, and the whole universe brought into existance had not some supernatural power--ie God--beyond our understanding willed it into existence. Astrophysics can gives us a very clear picture of what the early universe was like, but still cannot completely explain its very origin. All that matter packed into one tiny point had to come from somewhere, and I though matter couldn't be created?
ImaRocketDog1 3 months ago
@ImaRocketDog1 If you find it hard to believe the Big Bang ever happened, then you don't understand the concept behind the Big bang.
OmegaVesko 3 months ago
@OmegaVesko No, I firmly believe in the Big Bang. I just find it hard to believe that it happened completely randomly, that there's really no real reason why the universe and everything in it (including us) exists. I put my faith in God AND science.
ImaRocketDog1 3 months ago
@ImaRocketDog1 Religion explains things without any evidence of existence. Science will eventually explain things, but doesn't make any claims until it DOES have evidence.
TheSonicGod 3 months ago
@TheSonicGod Now we all know that is a fails statement. Where is the proof of the big bang theory? Has anyone actually seen these mythical particles of light that made all matter? Has anyone proven the existence of worm holes or hyperspace? Science has claimed all these things and more without one shred of solid proof. Religion has proof that people like you ignore all the time. It has eyewitnesses, artifacts with amazing properties, and physical manifestations on people.
BondFreek 3 months ago
@BondFreek At least science is open for debate and changes based upon evidence... where as religion... well... it's kinda like " ZOMG DONT ASK QUESTION OR U BURN IN HELL!" "NEVER QUESTION GOD!"
And yes, the particle smasher is recreating the beginning of the universe as we speak, you wouldn't know this cause you're so busy chasing your stupid fairies. Didn't the bible say it's okay to rape btw?
The most annoying thing tho... is that Why would an omniscient God allow evil in the first place..?
jolohmm 2 months ago
@jolohmm Oh! I LOVE Ignorant people who act like jackasses, when they are on the ropes. So "the particle smasher is recreating the beginning of the universe as we speak" Well I guess that must be true except; according to scientists you can't recreate the universe by smashing partials. You would know this if you actually studied instead of watching Barny rap badly. I quote George Burns from "O God Book 2" “Have you ever had an up without a down?" You can't know good without evil.
BondFreek 2 months ago
@jolohmm It is You who chases fairies, religious people don't believe in such crap. As for the "rape" shit you and your kind keep using to attack what you don't understand... That was in one passage in the Old Testament and latter refuted by Jesus. Learn your subject because the more you try to attack the more you look like an ASS.
BondFreek 2 months ago
@BondFreek But I thought everything in the bible was true? :O Oh wait....
Also, when you quoted "“Have you ever had an up without a down?" You can't know good without evil." An infinitely loving God wouldn't make evil in the first place, unless he is limited & malevolent. Ah yes, I'm sure I didn't say recreate the universe, i said recreating the..beginning... of the universe <3 Maybe we'd understand more of the big bang if that one congressman didn't ask "Will we find God with this machine" <3
jolohmm 2 months ago
@jolohmm 1st How would you know what an all loving God would do, where you ever an all loving God? 2nd. that part is redundant; you can’t recreate the beginning of the universe without recreating the universe. That's like saying "I did not get Carrie pregnant I only donated my sperm to form a baby." 3rd, whatever a congressman says doesn’t affect science. 4th. Good & Evil are just words to describe ones actions. A person is described as evil because he does evil things.
BondFreek 2 months ago
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@BondFreek I'm not an all Loving God, but I sure as hell won't damn my loved ones to eternal damnation if they did something I specifically told them not to. 2.) What's redundant? The logical definition of infinity that can't be applied to god? 3.) The texas collider which was supposed to be 3x more powerful than the collider in geneva was cancelled (Thanks christianity) 4.) Now this is redundant, sure good and evil are just words. But i'm sure a good god won't create evil just coz <3
jolohmm 2 months ago
@BondFreek If a person is described as evil because they do evil things... that probably means that the most evil people in history were... well, religious. Look at the crusades, the Inquisition, missionaries etc. These people brought nothing but pain and suffering to others.
Don't get me wrong, religion in itself isn't a bad thing, but institutions that capitalize on other people suffering are unjust. If Jesus were here today to see what people do in his name, he'd be appalled.
Pwnzor729 2 months ago
@Pwnzor729 I disagree... Jesus would be and is proud of most of the religions today because they overcame their hatred. Are the Crusades and Inquisitions still happening today? No! And the Missionaries only preach they don't force anyone. The only people Jesus would be appalled by are the terrorists and Atheists, in that order. Hatred in religion is almost gone. Even the once Whites only Mormon religion now has people of all races. Get the Facts.
BondFreek 2 months ago
@BondFreek He would be appalled by atheists?
crzyprplmnky 2 months ago
@BondFreek The fact that jesus and god allowed all those crusades, inquisitions, and other bullshit to happen in the first place (While having all the capability to prevent it) is enough evidence for ANYONE - of course who has a rational mind, to think that they are both equally malevolent dictators; if not both Equally Malevolent Divine Dictators.
jolohmm 2 months ago
@BondFreek I fail to see how I don't "get the facts." So, Jesus would be appalled by terrorists, in which case the US (the majority of which are Christian) bombing the shit out of civilians in foreign countries (Nagasaki, Vietnam, the Balkans, Iraq etc) clearly seems like terrorism to me. Yet, the victims - who are not Christian - get punished?
Fear and hatred are still being used today, as tools. I don't think this is the true face of religion, but politicians ARE exploiting it.
Pwnzor729 2 months ago
@Pwnzor729 Who told you that the US was bombing civilians? Was it on the news? No. Did Obama say it after he took office? No. I know a General told you, NO? Then it must have been your parents or teachers in school. NEWS FLASH! They don't know what is really going on so they assumed based on their personal bias. Civilians die in war that is & always been a sad fact. But which would you rather have a dozen civilians caught in the cross fire or billions of civilians murderd?
BondFreek 2 months ago
@Pwnzor729 Nagasaki was done only after a long moral debate. The decision to drop the bomb came after it was decided that it was better to kill a thousand to end the war then to let the war continue & kill millions. Look up the history of the H bomb & read what Einstein & the president wrote. History is about motives (true motives not the liberal's speculations of motives) of people in power & involved in the actual history. Get the facts on your own. Don't take anyone’s word for it.
BondFreek 2 months ago
@BondFreek It wasn't a thousand that died, it was over 200000, in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. Of course, killing that many people was totally necessary... the war had only just ended in Europe, and Japan was already on the brink of collapse. Yeah, that was completely justified... Jesus (a man of peace?) would understand.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound facetious, but there is no way to justify that. It's inhuman.
Pwnzor729 2 months ago
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BondFreek 2 months ago
@BondFreek Hitler was still developing missiles..? He died in April of 1945. They bombed Japan later in August that year. Unless Hitler was developing missiles from beyond the grave, I don't see how he have done that.
Oh, right, I should re-read my history though...
Pwnzor729 2 months ago
@Pwnzor729 I stand corrected. However I cording to my research (away from the miss leadings of my teachers) “For six months before the atomic bombings, the United States called for a surrender of Japan in the Potsdam Declaration on July 26, 1945. The Japanese government ignored this ultimatum. By executive order of President Harry S. Truman, the U.S. dropped the nuclear weapon.” It is clear that if he had not Japan would have dragged out the war for at least another year.
BondFreek 2 months ago
@Pwnzor729 ht tp :// w ww .cracked. com/ article_19487_5-backup-plans-that-would-have-changed-modern-history. html
I suggest you read that article. It was drop a nuke or lose way, way too many soldiers on both sides.
thejadefalcon 2 months ago
@BondFreek I can see that commenting on a topic such as this was a mistake. For the record, I don't want to change anyone's opinion here, I'm simply laying mine out on the table. I should also say that I don't denounce any religions you might have, only that I think we as a people have got a long way to go, and our ability to misuse something so powerful as religion is immense.
I guess that's the point of Star Trek... for all their advancements, they're still changing and learning.
Pwnzor729 2 months ago
He says this but in "tavesty" with the episode of Q and the other life Picard had he said "If this is the after life I am sure your not that God." Other shows characters say one thing yet they believe another. A good example is Full Metal Aclhemist where Ed says "there is no god just logic and science." Then in one episode says "We are nothing more then ant's by passing into God's territory We paid the price."
jp3711nc1 6 months ago
@jp3711nc1 In other words, in later episodes Edward is acknowledging the existence of God, his awesome power, and the responsibilities that come with such power. Over the course of the show I believe that his views changed as he saw what he did. Did he fully acknowledge God for who and what he was, debatable, but he at least came to the realization that there is A God .
AggieDon2012 5 months ago
Religion = Structure for those who would rather be lead.
It is far easier to follow what someone else tells you then to break out and seek your own beliefs/Path.
CreativeMindzs 6 months ago 4
There's a distinction made in this scene between religion and a "belief in the supernatural", "the dark ages of superstition and ignorance and fear". Some people posting here miss that point. This is the very thing that Worf had to come to realize with his Klingon religious heritage--one can recognize, appreciate, and even celebrate one's religious heritage and remain part of it (it would be hard to do otherwise), without being superstitious or irrational. Many religious people today know this.
GradStud28 7 months ago
the neutral zone is a gd example of stupid moralism, and their so called prime directive allows them to let entie worlds get detroyed without lifting a finger. see star trek voyager episodes. I never like Star Trek, maybe the original series still Baylon 5 is much more mature and intresting!
CuriousChronicler 8 months ago
I know that star trek has stupid morals, yes they are so enlighten that they make the spanish inquisition look like angels, and to see the parody star trek has became a religion to many people!
CuriousChronicler 8 months ago
@CuriousChronicler
My religion is Star Trek. I go to Star Trek Church three times a week, and homeschool my kids because the local Star Trek High School won't even teach Star Trek as fact in science classes.
I want the government to display the Prime Directive on every Court House - something they refuse to do, as they are clearly oppressing me and my beliefs and my right to bring up my family in a manner of my choosing.
Alienating (pardon the pun) me for believing in Star Trek is wrong.
jazzx251 5 months ago 2
@jazzx251 Wow, you are kidding, right? Look, I am a huge Trekkie myself, but I am a Christian and only watch Star Trek because I like it. Dude. Star Trek is a only a freakin TV show. I'm not "alienating" you, I'm just trying to help you. There's no Star Trek church or high school. How did you ever come to feel this way? I know you have to be kidding. Don't start acting like these people in "Who Watches the Watchers."
Gordontrek 4 months ago
i hate star trek becuase it always has this secular agenda imbeded within its philosophy and also it has all these moral parodoxes within its themes they claim to be pacifists yet when things dont go the way think it ought to go there ready to blast aliens to kingdom come and every problem is solved either through force or by simply badgering the alien to death with some human moral monologue.
doctorw2 9 months ago
That is my one major beef with Trek and that is their constant bashing of all religions.
Fbueller129 9 months ago
@Fbueller129
You bash all religions of the past except one.
Star Trek just follows through and admits that in the future, we will be so scientifically advanced that we won't need ANY superstition anymore.
.. but, characters like Worf indulge in traditional Klingon rituals (usually involving lethal combat)
And then there's Guinan - the resident Wiccan barmaid....
jazzx251 9 months ago
@Fbueller129 If we are lucky, by the 24th century, we will have bashed all religions to death.
glennheston 7 months ago
@glennheston I've met a few people who had the good fortune to grow up as atheists. To me they seem like characters from an advanced civilization out of science fiction.
MrAdvancedAtheist 6 months ago in playlist Atheism, religion, science. 5
@MrAdvancedAtheist I didn't grow up atheist, it was more like no religious beliefs what so ever. It was never discussed, except in a "that's something strange people believe in" kinda way. I remember when Star Trek first aired. That's where I learned my morals from. That and comic books. I have better morals than any religion could ever give me. How did you grow up?
glennheston 6 months ago
@glennheston if I were I would not advertise the fact that my primary sources of moral influence is star trek and comic books. it's people like you that promote a negative stereo of trekkies in general
SpockBorg5 5 months ago
@SpockBorg5 Show me where the bible has better morals than Star Trek. Not your opinion, the real stuff. And it's "stereotype". What you said makes it sound like I'm without a stereo.
glennheston 5 months ago
@MrAdvancedAtheist I try to imagine growing up in an atheist family... Instead of wasting Sundays doing jack sht, you enjoy free time and relax. Instead of wasting time praying, praising God, thanking him for everything and constantly living by something some sheep herder said thousands of years ago, you live according to reason, human morality and intelligence.
Must be a fun world :/
Abedeuss 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i fucking love this!!!
robertcute164 11 months ago
haha, this is one of the first videos with a 200+:0 like to dislike ratio lol.
IamTheEddy 1 year ago
Stark Trek +1, Religion 0
Galactus78 1 year ago 4
religion is not all that bad. Who would rape our children if it weren't for religion?
Samura1gamer 1 year ago 17
@Samura1gamer I can't believe you got any thumbs up for this. I'm sure we all know exactly what you're referencing here and it's not the fault of the common belief shared by members of the church that poor children have been abused and continue to be by a handful of disgusting, evil men who do not deserve to call themselves men of God. Don't blame religion for a terrible crime that should be blamed on humans using their free will to act against God and harm others.
ImaRocketDog1 3 months ago
@ImaRocketDog1 "God" is just as evil as the people you are referencing. Especially the way he is portrayed in the Old Testament. skepticsannotatedbible(dot)com/cruelty/long.html
OmegaVesko 3 months ago
@OmegaVesko I don't tend to take everything in the Old Testament (especially really early in it) all that literally. Plus, as a historical (not necessarily in content, but in context and when it was written) document, the Bible was a product of its times and it's not too much of a stretch to say was influenced by the personal beliefs spiritual and otherwise of its writers. If we were to take the Bible literally, slavery would be seen as legal and women would have zero rights.
ImaRocketDog1 3 months ago
so much win
gentzelpwns 1 year ago
Religion is for fucktards
BristolPalinsBabyDad 1 year ago
I know I'm going to screw this streak up now, but there are 0 dislikes.
Kan2209 1 year ago
Great episode! :-)
JeanMichelAbrassart 1 year ago
one of the best eps
tehuberpowa 1 year ago
There, atheism has finally won out, while not even scientific giants such as Richard Dawkins and Richard Feynman might had not convinced religious fundies to abandon religion, but when a great man like Patrick Stewart tells you religion can ruin a civilization, you had better damn listen to the man. And oh, FUCK YEAH!
frankystein12 1 year ago 76
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@frankystein12
Richard Dawkind is a scientific giant!?
ROFLMAO!
He is nothing but a boffun,plagiator and complete moron with childish logic
who insults anyone and everyone who doesn't think like he is.
Only reason whe he is famous is his millitant atheism.
mfilip62 1 year ago
@mfilip62 sure dude, the fact that you have venomfangX on your friends list says it all
be gone troll, and call back when you get out of the dark ages.
tieInterceptor 11 months ago
@frankystein12 so can money, i think money causes more problems than religion.
cherokeediamond 1 year ago 2
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StandUpForCanada1867 7 months ago
@frankystein12 HAHAHA! Richard Dawkins ... a "scientific giant." I don't know if there's a bigger joke than that. Thanks for making my day!!!
StandUpForCanada1867 7 months ago
@StandUpForCanada1867
You might get a kick out of "The Poetry of Science" vid here on youTube. Mr. Dawkins has no pop-culture knowledge at all. Neil deGrasse Tyson tells him "he needs to get out more". Also a great video on it own, two giants stomping around the playground. I'll give props to Richard Dawkins. He's no slouch.
Meef1701 6 months ago
i am honest...
i never liked star trek, but this could change my mind ^^
6ch6ris6 1 year ago 41
@6ch6ris6 Dude, Star Trek The Next Generation is the best Star Trek.
Motion63O 5 months ago
'Who watches the watchers'... one of my favourite episodes.
Greatbloke 1 year ago
all those morons who say Star trek made them an atheis,t need to be beaten over their head continuously, because the meanings in Star trek have gone WAAAAAAY over their heads.
manoljo 1 year ago
@manoljo
I watched all of TNG DS9 and Voyager and the shows opinion on religion seemed to flip flop all over the place depending on the writers. Star trek isnt very consistent on the topic.
But I do think it slowly got more and more pro religion as it went along.
It also turned to shit some time after the first season or so of Voyager.
BubbleGumNipples 1 year ago
@BubbleGumNipples Actually there is a very good episode of Voyager that basically ridicules the modern Creation vs Evolution argument taking fiormly the side of Evolution.
edinburghskeptics 1 year ago
@edinburghskeptics
Thats true your right. The one with the Dinosaur people.
I forgot that Voyager did have a few really good episodes.
BubbleGumNipples 1 year ago
@manoljo Uh, the first couple of seasons of TNG were very much unfriendly to religion and the supernatural. As Star Trek went on, the writers started to pander to the religious more and more in desperate and hilarious attempts to get better ratings.
But I really don't think Star Trek made anyone an atheist. It certainly didn't make me one... that had to come much later in life.
mjhacker 1 year ago 3
@manoljo , but the meanings hardly matter. Star Trek inspires an interest in science, which in turn inspires an interest in evidence and logic. Most people who take that trek are atheist.
rg0057 1 year ago
@manoljo
Star Trek was one of several contributing factors which led to my atheism, and Im sure thats what those other people mean. Not everyone takes the same road to reach the same destination and inspiration often comes from unlikely sources.
starfishsicko 1 year ago
@starfishsicko
It was pretty much the same for me but the program that did it for me was Stargate. With most of their enemies being Aliens posing as gods, they for 10 seasons explorer the question "What is a god"?".
I'm not saying Stargate converted me but it further opened my eyes and really made me think about all the gods we humans have thought up through the ages. Once you study all of the available evidence the only logical conclusion you can reach is that gods are inventions of humans.
maggru91 1 year ago 2
@maggru91 I agree, it made me question what it meant to be a God. Omniscient? Omnipresent? All powerful?(And how much power is all powerful) It's a very good question.
VictimeDeReligion 1 year ago
@starfishsicko It had some factor in determining my interest in science when i was a child. i was born in 1993 when TNG was getting close to being over and i watched it with my father, i suppose seeing the (admittedly) optimistic potential of mankind instilled an early yearn for knowledge.
I doubt that our eventual lounge into space (or destruction from pitiful arguments) will be anything close to Star Trek, but it can be our goal for the future.
VictimeDeReligion 1 year ago
what episode is this?
Ryagful 1 year ago
@Ryagful
Episode 4, series 3
'Who watches the watchers'.
godlessmessiah 1 year ago 10
thanks!
Ryagful 1 year ago
More Religion vs Star trek:
/watch?v=ZMzUvQ_BdeA
godlessmessiah 1 year ago 3