1/4 - Serebrier conducts Greenberg - Symphony No. 5

[TheShnag]

only 14? imagine the shit he will compose later in his life; when he learns about love and loss

[prantare]

I thought this was amazing. Guess I also have a bad ear. ;)

[caronte232]

After listening to the whole symphony I have to say it sounds very cinematic! Very dramatic and I'm defenately impressed by the age of the composer... I'm not sure this really works by itself (with no images) because even in the quieter parts there isn't much tension release, it's all very single mooded (doesn't seem to carry a storyline)... however this might just resemble Greenberg's youth and ingenuity, I truly hope somebody with such writing ease will develop a more intricate soul to depict.

[zeppelin0110]

For a kid, this is obviously impressive. But the progression in this symphony is almost schizophrenic. In my opinion, this could be extremely fitting for a movie soundtrack (something like Hitchcock). But not as a concert piece.

[Hufflepuff4Lyfe]

Considering how he is a KID, this is utter brilliance. Seriously, I want to know how many KIDS can even right ONE symphony. Let alone, ADULTS! There's not that many out there, compared to the general population. Who CARES whether it's 'good enough' to compare the THE GREATEST of all time... It's amazing that he has been able to write such works. My own personal opinion is it is good and well composed. I am in music and have been all my life. I write music, and I know how hard it is. Stop hating.

[MusicIan423]

I rather like this. And I have always been said to have great taste.

[idontfkinknow1234]

Justin Bieber was better then this when he was 14

[thisisspiel]

Well, though I completly agree with the critics, at least concerning the type of post-romantic- collage this symphony represent. This symphony features a cute way to use atonal techniques and other shostakovich-like refrences. Comparing him to Mozart isn't appropriate- he is very talnted, and when I tried to write something as much as an overture when I was hisyet age...well, I didn't get SONY to record it, right? - so he is indeed someone to be admired for at least for that!

[Rotation364]

can you show an actually symphony playing this?

[travshorts]

Critics. They never change.

[dmackey2000]

Wow. Very interesting use of more modern atonality with a taste of Neo-romanticism. Lacks a little character, but absolutely incredible that this came from a 14-year old. Very beautiful.

[positivebob]

@dmackey2000 "I'm so special, I can write a few boring sentences about another persons great works." What have you done? Can you post a work of your own being performed?

[UturnatA2]

writing good music is really hard in this time and age. You can write everything you want! In the time of mozart, mozart had to learn a lot of rules and borders and he built on that. This guy has nothing but his imaginatio and everything he hears to build on.

anyways, he still needs to learn a lot and create his own style.

Hope he can follow his road of life without pressure, as every kid should be able to. Then we'll see if he wants to offer something to the world.

[MarkOates2]

Whatever I could beat him up.

[banhamm3r]

@MarkOates2 this comment has to be one of the most profoundly idiotic things I've ever had the displeasure of reading.

[MarkOates2]

@banhamm3r hahaha :D

[positivebob]

@MarkOates2 Now that is funny, but, of course, pathetic. Cretans rule!

[yellowkidweil1]

Can't wait til this kid is 25-30. I'm in awe of his technical ability but he needs some life experience to really add some animo to his works.

[MarkOates2]

@yellowkidweil1 I agree. There is no denying that the compositions are compelling and his abilities brilliant.

But they are not yet profound. I'm eager to hear the reeeeal good shit. Less counterpoint, more life.

[positivebob]

@MarkOates2 Let me see some of your "profound" works? Where are they? Can I google you?

[positivebob]

@yellowkidweil1 Who are you to say what he needs to add? Where are your works? Please enlighten me with your genius?

[allanramsaysteele]

Honestly, Beethoven's and Mozart's first pieces were kind of shit. This kid has the extreme potential to be one of the most fabulous composers in the last few hundred years, but he might turn out to be shite as well.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@allanramsaysteele All juvenilia is derivative, for sure. And I think that if Greenberg had been born in more tasteful times, his juvenilia would be more tolerable. And I do think he's got a great chance of becoming quite a tremendous composer. And it'll be then that he denounces his former adult handlers for allowing him to embarrass himself.

[positivebob]

@PrettyGoodies1 You know, you simply come across as jealous of this talent. Seriously, "juvenilia". Come on,

[kokomanation]

@allanramsaysteele are you even serious mozart at nine wrote 1000000 better music than this u know nothing of mozart as it seems

[somerspaulm]

@allanramsaysteele So be more specific about what is so intolerable about the music. All the folks deriding it as well as those liking it are simply following the "like" "don't like" mentality, which includes no substantiating of an "opinion" — which effectively makes it a non-opinion.

I find it well constructed motivically, with a sense of drama which pulls one along to discover the musical denoument. Thank goodness it isn't the pathetic academic post-Webernist drivel or any "-ism".

[richardmy]

Come on everyone, he was only 14.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@richardmy That's what his adult handlers should've realized.

[positivebob]

@PrettyGoodies1 You are the worst.

[positivebob]

@PrettyGoodies1 Please. You are intolerable.

[IshYehudi613]

I'm not going to say that I know better than anyone here; my knowledge of symphonies is very weak; but I happened to enjoy it.

Must be because I have no appreciation for good music :)

[PrettyGoodies1]

@IshYehudi613 Either that, or you have the aural equivalent of an iron stomach. : )

Hey, speak your mind. That's what I like. Don't be intimidated. I got a lot of shocking opinions too, in regard to classical music. And no one keeps me from expressing them. Good job.

[composerzane]

@PrettyGoodies1 I found the music in this particular clip to be quite interesting... at times. But, as a cohesive piece? Basically awful. As a symphony? Err... I'm a bit embarrassed for him.

I guess the crucial difference in our viewpoint is either your superior musical analysis or my hearing a bit of my younger self in his music; possibly a combination ;)

[PrettyGoodies1]

@composerzane Ha! My "superior musical analysis" amounts to exclaiming - ACK!

And, for sure, this is the taste level of every 12-year-old ... except for some prodigies in taste that aren't getting any record contracts because their music is still simple.

"I'm a bit embarrassed for him." That's how he's going to feel in the future about the boy who asked for this to be published. Meanwhile, I'm just angry for him in advance - and embarrassed only for his adult handlers.

[positivebob]

@PrettyGoodies1 You were born in an awkward silence.

[Psued0Name]

@composerzane

In an interview on his website jay has similar thoughts

AP: And it just flows out?

Jay: Generally. In the past it just used to flow out and I'd leave the piece as it was. But after a while I found out that sometimes some of my earlier pieces lacked a coherent structure ... or sounded very strange or ... were plain impossible to play. The first piano concerto, for instance. I wrote parts for the horn that go about an octave higher than the horn can possibly play.

[ghostofdayinperson]

Sounds like an orchestra got a hold of four different scores (one by Richard Strauss, the next by Prokofiev, another by Shostakovitch, and the last being a ballet by Tchaikovsky), tore the sheets out of the books, rearranged the pages, omitted a few passages here, positioned some of the sheets upside down there, scanned the results into a computer, printed out the concoction and POOF! I'm listening to this piece.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@ghostofdayinperson O my God! Best comment yet - and by far. And I couldn't agree more. : D

[ghostofdayinperson]

@PrettyGoodies1 Thank you! It's really not a bad piece, it just doesn't transport the listener and sounds like a collage of passages that may have even been discarded by the listed composers. It has many very interesting moments despite this.

[composerzane]

while it's true there is a very strong possibility greenburg will regret these teenage and preteen works having been published later in life, they are not quite as bad as some are making them out to be.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@composerzane Um. Yeah, they are. And I hope his adult handlers have good life insurance policies, as I expect him to be one very angry young man in the future.

: D

[JorPove]

Estimo habiendo escuchado tan solo unos pocos minutos que su música es mas articulada que la de muchos compositores actuales y cumple con el requisito basico de toda obra que es llegar al oyente. Mis felicitaciones a este jovencisimo compositor. En el se cumplen los nuevos postulados de las neurociencias que es la forma en que funciona lo que denominamos mente.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@JorPove A very generous assessment. : )

[epsons25]

sounds like a film soundtrack.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@epsons25 It does. And his adult handlers should've told him that ain't gonna fly. But instead, we have this splashy recording.

[epsons25]

@PrettyGoodies1 true, there's nothing memorable in this piece... I've heard music a hundred times less complex with a hundred times more soul.

[positivebob]

@PrettyGoodies1 And can I hear your works performed? What key words should I use to find you? Oh...you don't have any, Well that is sad after all.

[PertinaciousOne]

This reminds me a lot of Stravinsky's neo-classical period. ;D

[PrettyGoodies1]

@PertinaciousOne Channeled through John Williams. X P

[clefpalate]

Boy Emperor's new clothes.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@clefpalate I think you're right.

But the blame goes to his adult handlers. They needed to play it cool with him.

[Fernball21]

@PrettyGoodies1 I think it's alright. If he weren't presented in this way, he would never have any music published. It's nice that his parents have the resources to promote his musical nature. Remember how Leopold Mozart treated his son's obvious musical talent...

[woonawoona]

He's a genius....all of you are not.....stfu

[PrettyGoodies1]

@woonawoona He's no prodigy in good taste. And his adult handlers needed to realize this before ballyhooing his mere technical genius.

[Jewdai]

This kid has a good grasp of orchestral qualities.This as a work doesnt seem to build....but this is just as uninteresting as some classical works by some of the most famous composers.

Really what classical musicians works get remembers is by being "good" and by that definition requires a lot of repetition.

p.s. I have a masters in music...STUFU

[hot4belgians]

@Jewdai you might have a masters in music but i will certainly not shut the up fuck up like you have suggested, i shall say as I please or "SAIAP"

[PrettyGoodies1]

@Jewdai Ooooo ... I can hardly think of a less interesting symphony. : )

I think the adult Greenberg will rue the day he published any of his juvenilia. Someday, he'll wish to have back the opportunity to reveal some real Symphonies No. 1 - 5.

[UnScriptedFlix]

While I am impressed by his ability; his music lacks substance. The music is confusing and has no direction. But, I know he will become much better when he gets older :)

[PrettyGoodies1]

@UnScriptedFlix I agree. And his latest things are better. I think he is going to fulfill his potential. I just don't understand why his adult handlers thought this symphony was worth publishing, let alone performing, let alone recording!

[ghostofdayinperson]

@UnScriptedFlix I agree almost completely with you-- I am in great awe of his computer-like intelligence and massive technical ability. I wish I had it myself because I could really use it. However, I'm skeptical that he will improve with age. With Mozart, from piece #1 not only was his technical genius obvious, something far more profound was also present: artistic soul. I don't hear this in Jay's music-- it's cold, sterile. The ability to evoke emotion is something that can't be taught.

[Fernball21]

@ghostofdayinperson It certainly isn't something that can be taught in a classroom, but neither does it remain static. He will learn it in life, or so we can only hope.

[hashkat]

thanks Jay, great effort and much welcomed novelty.

[thinker93]

I AM AN UTTER FAILURE.

[phortion]

@thinker93 Why? Because you don't have the mind of a computer? Please.  I'm sure if you look into your soul, there is something unique to you that you can share with the world. So far, I don't see that this young man has brought anything fresh to the table--we're just wowed because of his age and the type of music he has chosen to 'compose'. Never mind that it is dreadfully derivative. There are much better composers his age working in the pop, rap and rock genres.

[thinker93]

@phortion

uhh...well thanks for taking my sarcastic comment literally I guess. I'm not sure if you're complimenting my or not, but if so, thanks. Don't you think it's a bit redundant to call a 12 year old's music "derivative"? Of course it's derivative, he's in middle school. Even Beethoven's early work was largely modeled around Mozart.

After that point you lost me. Looks like you said something about "rap composers." Whatever those are, I doubt they're writing symphonies like Jay.

[larrythompsonjr]

thanks Jay, great effort and much welcomed novelty.

how thoughtful having available for Free!

[larrythompsonjr]

thanks Jay, great effort and much welcomed novelty.

[myriadsouls]

On the effeminate serious music/masculinity question: I mean...it really depends on how you'd qualify effeminate and masculine. There's a lot of cultural considerations at work here. Today we're surrounded by things like hip hop, Taiko and the work of composers like Wagner.

Just remember that what we might consider "soft and pretty" as opposed to "intense and masculine" is informed entirely by our modern culture. What you really have to ask is: what did the people of THOSE times really think?

[PrettyGoodies1]

@myriadsouls I think they looked on softness and delicacy as effeminate. : D

[mooniusss]

@PrettyGoodies1 And how did they see grace?

[hybridfox]

I think Blue Jay needs to mature as far his compositions go. Obviously the kid has a fast brain, but, as many have said already, the music seems too predictable. Personally, I think his motifs and phrases are trivial, much ado about little. Too much melodrama. I really hope his teachers point him in the right way. Anyone can make music. Read that again. Even a cat walking on piano keys. But can music touch someone's soul in the manner that Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, or Vivaldi's did?

[PrettyGoodies1]

@hybridfox Wow. You're almost the first one not to bust my chops for being critical of this work!

The direction I see Greenberg heading in is nothing cerebral at all, but emotional, and masculine, even surprisingly masculine, considering how serious music tends toward effeminacy. It's just a hint of a direction I hear. And I hope he takes it, as it'd be unique, even shocking!

[robhaskins]

@PrettyGoodies1 I find this characterization quite troubling. How does serious music tend toward effeminacy? What examples would you cite? Honestly, I'm having a lot of difficulty wrapping my head around this.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@robhaskins I also believe that the Earth is round and the sky is blue. Amazing, aren't I? : D

[robhaskins]

@PrettyGoodies1 So you really can't think of any effeminate classical music, I guess. :) That's about what I would have thought.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@robhaskins I can hardly think of any that isn't.

What counts as effeminate to you? Soft - pretty music. ... You've never heard the like?

[StevenOBrienComposer]

@PrettyGoodies1 Serious music? Effeminate? Have you heard ANY work by Beethoven? :P

[PrettyGoodies1]

@StevenOBrienComposer He's the only serious composer?

[StevenOBrienComposer]

@PrettyGoodies1 He's one of the most influential.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@StevenOBrienComposer Serious music has gotten more masculine since the early 20th century. Less pretty. More intense. Before then, however, truly masculine composers are few and far between. Beethoven ... and then who else? One has really to think. Before the early 20th century, what composers eschewed the soft and pretty and strove for the distinctly masculine instead? Wagner maybe. Keep thinking. ... Rossini?

[Fernball21]

@PrettyGoodies1 Many composers (like Brahms, for example) did write "masculine" pieces, but these composers are better known for their other works. Conversely, Beethoven has plenty of soft and pretty music, but his louder works are generally more famous.

I don't know if I agree that music has tended in that direction. I think the sound has become crunchier, more dissonant, less melody-based, and as a result is less "smooth and pretty"

[robhaskins]

@hybridfox One part Hindemith, One and a half parts Shostakovich, a little Bartok. One begins by imitating others. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with if he continues.

[ebach1]

cool :) i hope his teachers will simply teach to write the music that he has in mind :)

that is what i wanted my teachers to do ,byt they didnt .

composition teachers can be eregant sometimes.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@ebach1 From what I can tell, Greenberg's teachers are giving him too little guidance!

: D

[TREVAAA1234]

there is a lot of talk about originality in is composing, but i don't think that's something that should be worried about right now; it will come with time and maturity. I think what is very interesting about this kid is his understanding of the structure and phrasing. If this music was analyzed, you could see where he is doing theory that he probably hasn't even learned yet. The kids talented, just give him some time. No composer starts out at their greatest. I'm pullin' for you, Greenberg!

[PrettyGoodies1]

@TREVAAA1234 I think his structuring here is hokey. Predictable at best, preposterous at worst. But what's indeed remarkable is the sheer concentration this kid can bring to his work. He has a STRONG mind for music, an adult amount of mental stamina! But why his adult handlers think his stuff is already good enough to make a big deal out of, I have no idea. I don't see any upside in over-selling a prodigy. To me, this hype is a mistake from every angle. And I hope Greenberg isn't damaged by it.

[TREVAAA1234]

@PrettyGoodies1 OK, you're definitely right about it being predictable. On the other hand, not many people can even produce music that is "predictable." Unfortunately his elders are making a much bigger deal out of it than they should; however he is in the Juilliard classes now with people who have taken these theory classes, and who know what style and structure they want in their music, and he is going to be intimidated. The question is whether he gives it up or use the frustration to learn.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@TREVAAA1234 I think the kid has a tremendously strong ego. At his rare best, his music conveys a sense of masculinity that is startling in its boldness and depth!

I'm glad we agree about the borderline irresponsibility of his adult handlers. Meanwhile, surely there are teenage composers out there who ARE prodigies in taste. They KNOW what is good music, instinctively. But they aren't getting any recognition, because they're not advanced in technique! Still, I'd call them the greater wonders.

[Dikbala]

All the discussion about whether he is original or not is beside the point, at this stage. Mozart was lionized as a child for his precociousness. His early works were not especially original either. But look what he turned into! Time will tell. For now, I at least appreciate this remarkable flower even in bud state.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@Dikbala I got my fingers crossed for Greenberg too. I just don't understand what his adult handlers are thinking in the meantime, regarding all this hype. Either sensibly damp it down, or helpfully spend a few minutes lecturing the kid on taste.

I'm sure the young Mozart heard a lecture on taste every day. : )

[danterosati]

the kid is doing exactly what he should be doing: absorbing and recapitulating the tradition. Soon he will probably re-do modernism, and after that he will hopefully find his own voice. When he does, look out! The talent there is immense.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@danterosati You know, that's a good point. And I hope you're right in your prediction.

My point in the meantime is that his adult mentors should have enough sense to know that his taste level right now isn't up to all the hype they're generating on his behalf. They need either to educate him in good taste or just hold off on the splashy recordings. And why not be frank about that? When the media caught wind of this kid's technical genius, why didn't his handlers wisely damper the hype?

[flyingwing]

To all of you would-be music critics...how many of you ever took a theory or a comp class? You are interjecting your own personal music taste, and from the sound of it, some of you are big Kenny G and John Tesh fans. This young man (and forget that he's still a teenager) is an amazing talent, and those with a TRAINED musical ear listen to and appreciate a wonderful composer, and DON'T look at the pretty pictures.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@flyingwing That's exactly the trouble with academic music. It subordinates taste to theory. But in any case, to each his own. If you like 3rd-rate re-hashes of John Williams, then more power to ya!

: D

[paralleluniverse28]

I agree that it doesn't sound very original, it sounds like something that has been done before. Although, Greenberg composed this when he was very young. He hadn't experienced very much yet that would give him new perspective and a lot of his own insight into music. He wrote what he though sounded cool.

I think it would be a good piece to incorporate into a ballet actually. Its originality doesn't put a damper on the fact that a 14 year old wrote this, after writing four others.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@paralleluniverse28 I never thought of it as ballet music. ...

I bless a kid who's got 5 symphonies under his belt by age 14. I just don't bless his adult mentors who think any of it is worth publishing. And I predict that the adult Greenberg is going to look back in embarrassment over all the undue hubbub over his juvenilia, which might be technically advanced for his age, but still very juvenile in taste.

I wish Greenberg all the best. And I wish his mentors to learn their lesson. : )

[luizcadu]

Thanks for sharing! He's certainly a prodigy. A genius, too early to say.

[PrettyGoodies1]

@luizcadu He's a technical prodigy! But no prodigy in taste. And so, when he's older and looks back on his juvenilia, I wouldn't be surprised if he feels angry toward his adult handlers. I think they're showing very poor judgment. And I hope they learn with him their lesson in regard to future technical prodigies: Teach 'em what good taste is. Don't let these kids embarrass themselves. And for God's sake, don't exploit them, as if they were circus freaks.

[luizcadu]

@PrettyGoodies1 Mozart once said something like "genius is the one that no teacher can ruin". I mean, he himself had to deal with a greedy father who exploited his prodigy. Maybe Greenberg will overcome it too. I think it's too early to say he's a genius, as I think it is to say he's a flop. Don' be so harsh on him :)

Besides, how do you define 'good taste'? If Stravinsky was concerned with the good taste of his era, maybe he wouldn't have composed the Rite of Spring. Agreed?

Cheers!

[PrettyGoodies1]

@luizcadu Shoot. Stravinsky had such good taste as to redefine its meaning!

: D

If you're composing third-rate rehashes of second-rate stuff that people wish never existed in the first place, that's when an adult mentor needs to step in and get stern with his prodigy: THIS ain't seeing the light of day.

[luizcadu]

@PrettyGoodies1 I see. I don't dislike this work as much as you do. Actually, I think there are some pretty interesting moments. I agree it sounds like a rehash (a blend of Shostakovich and Hollywood soundtracks?), but who knows? Maybe he'll find his own path, I hope so. I'd like to know what he's been doing lately (we speak of him as if he was still a child, but he must be like 20 now!)

[PrettyGoodies1]

@luizcadu More like John Williams.

I think he's still in his teens. There's a Wiki article on him.

I must say I like certain parts of his "Four Scenes for Two Quartets". If he sticks to the best parts of that piece, he'll be MORE than all right. When that piece turns smoothly masculine, it conveys a deeply genuine impulse. But when it pretends to anxious drama, it turns hokey and stale. An adult mentor should point out this best direction for him. I hope he soon hears it for himself.

[PorroFirst]

It is kind of childish..

[PrettyGoodies1]

@PorroFirst Think of how many steps this project had to take to land in the hands of the London Symphony Orchestra for recording. And no adult along the way said, Woah! Hold up. What in the world are we doing here? Let's get real about this kid.

More power to Greenberg! But it makes you wonder about the adults in this field.

[PorroFirst]

@PrettyGoodies1 I mean, it's kind of like stories or poems I wrote when I was 15-16.. They've got a valid point, but that juvenile naïvety also.

[c4ren]

hi...may i know wheere can i get his cd?.. :)

i m a learning musician wanting to learn more..

(of course if ur willing to send it to me it would be best.. haha)

[PrettyGoodies1]

@c4ren Wow! I just gave this CD away to a local friend, because I don't like it. Too late, or it would've been yours!

If you click on the description box under the video, the second link I provide there will connect you with this CD at Amazon.

[TheFutureClassics]

10 minutes? My clock says 01:40 :-(

I "like" it and will watch later perhaps than I'll "thumbs down" it!

But I already know that the photos will be a joy to watch!

[PrettyGoodies1]

@TheFutureClassics Ha! That would be the first thumbs-down on any of my new channels.

I don't blame anyone for not liking this first movement. To me, It sounds like Mahler rents the movie "Jaws".

[TheFutureClassics]

@PrettyGoodies1 Really not one thumbs-down so far? I have had the honor of getting my first very recently :-)

The music is not very spectacular, but some of the shots are! No I'm not the one who'll give you your first thumbs-down :-))

[PrettyGoodies1]

@TheFutureClassics Well, if you haven't thumbed anything down on my channel by now, you never will.

: D

And maybe someone gave you a thumbs-down by mistake. I've accidently done that on some videos.

[TheFutureClassics]

@PrettyGoodies1 No not on this one I won't but don't you have another channel somewhere?

Don't challenge me!! I have 3 votes to give and I will use them if necessary ;-)

[PrettyGoodies1]

@TheFutureClassics If you didn't vote thumbs down on my "I Eat Children" video at my other channel, then surely there is no piece of music that you will ever vote thumbs down!

: D