First we (in Minneapoli) had street cars, then we tore them out in favor of automobiles and buses. Then we decided to tear up our rail lines to put in bicycle highways (modern ho chi minh trails), and tear up our streets to put in light rail.
Somebody is making some money.
As far as the heavy rail, no matter; we barely make anything anymore in the United States, except hamburgers.
The Streetcar Line should be extended to connect with the proposed Southwest Corridor route & be able to run to Target Field. Streetcar 1300 could also be leased for special events & once again, the Streetcars would see their home rails again.
Light rail has the ability to go fast AND slow. As a matter of fact, the Hiawatha line travels on Minnehaha Ave between 47th Ave & Veterans Dr slower than on the rest of the system. Also light rail has a greater capacity than streetcars (even modern ones like in Portland, keep in mind they ALSO have light rail as well) Your video represents a clear bias in transit types and does not assess them objectively.
The proposed 11-mile Central Corridor toy train in the middle of developed city streets has the ability to go slow and slower. There are no fast legs, anywhere, on the 11-mile, 40-minute route. The 40,000 passenger capacity of the proposed slow and slower LRT could be achieved and far surpassed by a combination of appropriately-routed modes including streetcars, limited-stop and express buses, and LRT north of University Avenue where the Highway Dept. is planning a new 35E-35W expressway.
Also, 1/2 a mile is not too far to walk; for most people it's an issue of laziness. If you don't want to walk that far, hop on a bike, if you can't walk that far, give metro mobility a call, or hop on the 16, which will continue running.
The light rail will be considerably faster than a streetcar would be. A streetcar wouldn't likely be any6 faster than a bus at all, seeing as it wouldn't operate in its own ROW. Additionally, a 1950's era streetcar is not at all what they're like today; take a look at Portland (OR)'s streetcars, they look just like our LRVs here, except with one car instead of two. I'd much prefer to travel 45-55 mph with signal priority at lights than 25-30 mph stopping constantly, a bus does that just fine.
The proposed LRT on the 11-mile, 40 minute-plus route, won't travel 50 mph or even 30 mph. The proposed LRT on developed city streets will travel at about the same speed as the current limited-stop bus that it replaces
Up to the 1950s there were over 400 miles track for the streetcars in the Twin Cities. Then along came organized crime and it was all gone. Actually Minneapolis is looking at putting the old TCRT units back into sevice by building a new line across town.
This is just one of the many, MANY wrong decisions the people in charge of planning the Central Corridor have made. The wrong choice, the wrong vehicle, the wrong location - really, it's harder to think of something these nitwits did RIGHT.
As someone mentioned earlier, the distinction between street car and light rail is simply an American invention. If you go to any major European city with existing "street car" tracks, ie Berlin, Vienna, Krakow, etc. you will notice that the cars look identical to the LRVs and indeed are. Do you really believe that it will run at full speed down University?
The proposed slow 11-mile light-rail line, with stops a mile apart on a developed commercial city street, would cost more than twice as much as a modern streetcar with more frequent stops. According to Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak, a streetcar line could be built for about $30 million/mile. That's $330 million for an 11-mile line. The estimated cost for the proposed 11-mile light-rail line is about a $billion. That's triple the cost for a streetcar line.
Growing up in Calgary, we've had LRV's since 1979, now have 3 lines. They don't treat them as streetcars along the 7th Ave transit street and have platforms every block or two, in my humble opinion a true streetcar has stops as frequent as a transit bus and usually follows the street traffic signals, as opposed to a LRV which usually uses CTC for traffic control. Boston's streetcars are the closest to being a mix of streetcar/LRV in North America.
To me, definately Light Rail!!! Where I now live in Orlando, Florida, needs a mass transit system, such as the Light Rail, so that therefore, there would be less traffic on I-4. HOWEVER, WHERE I'M ORIGINALLY FROM IN CHICAGO, NOTHING CAN AND WILL BEAT THE C.T.A., ESPECIALLY BOTH THE RED AND BLUE LINES!!!
Make mine light rail. The streetcars would be ideal for rural settings, they have that nice, nostalgic look about them that would make a place for them there, but for metro/city commutes, the light rail is most preferrable and reliable.
Too bad my sorry home town can't seem to get either one, and both are needed here badly.
Have you experineced the "air conditioned comfort" of the Hwy. 55 light-rail recently. When temperatures and humidity rise to uncomfortable levels, and the wide LRT doors open to allow the heat and humidity of enter the light-rail vehicle, I don't imagine there is a great deal of "air conditioned comfort."
The proposed slow, 35-minute end-to-end, 11-mile light-rail line, with stops a mile apart, on a developed commercial city street, would cost more than twice as much as a modern streetcar with more frequent stops. According to Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak, a streetcar line could be built for about $30 million/mile. That's $330 million for an 11-mile line. The estimated cost for the proposed 11-mile light-rail line is about a $billion. That's triple the cost for a streetcar line.
I wouldn't trust a word you say after that biased video you made, anyway... Tram (streetcar) and light rail is essentially the same thing. Where I live (Poznan, Poland) the tram (streetcar) circles the downtown area, and then gets on an overpass and becomes "light rail". This term was coined in US to avoid the apparently negative associations with the old "streetcar".
Light rail. You offer a bias view point which leads on emotion rather than rational balance. The speed noted in the last scene would not be adapted to the area pictured at the beginning. If this is what you were implying?
The light-rail vehicle pictured in the last scene is the same vehicle that has been proposed by the Banking, Insurance, Government and other Big Business interests for the existing commercial and residential areas around University and Washington Avenues.
Same vehicle, but not the same speed. Just because a bus can go 65 on the highway doesn't mean it's gonna go 65 down the back roads.
The last scene shows the LRVs going down a straight isolated track. If it goes through residential neighborhoods, it will either run slower, or they'll put up fencing. Either way, a modern LRV is much more efficent and reliable than an old turn of the century streetcar, so it makes sense to use the LRV for mass transit since it can carry more people faster.
First we (in Minneapoli) had street cars, then we tore them out in favor of automobiles and buses. Then we decided to tear up our rail lines to put in bicycle highways (modern ho chi minh trails), and tear up our streets to put in light rail.
Somebody is making some money.
As far as the heavy rail, no matter; we barely make anything anymore in the United States, except hamburgers.
Wwallace67 9 months ago
The Streetcar Line should be extended to connect with the proposed Southwest Corridor route & be able to run to Target Field. Streetcar 1300 could also be leased for special events & once again, the Streetcars would see their home rails again.
thomasrosiefan1 10 months ago
Light rail has the ability to go fast AND slow. As a matter of fact, the Hiawatha line travels on Minnehaha Ave between 47th Ave & Veterans Dr slower than on the rest of the system. Also light rail has a greater capacity than streetcars (even modern ones like in Portland, keep in mind they ALSO have light rail as well) Your video represents a clear bias in transit types and does not assess them objectively.
philfreyre 2 years ago
The proposed 11-mile Central Corridor toy train in the middle of developed city streets has the ability to go slow and slower. There are no fast legs, anywhere, on the 11-mile, 40-minute route. The 40,000 passenger capacity of the proposed slow and slower LRT could be achieved and far surpassed by a combination of appropriately-routed modes including streetcars, limited-stop and express buses, and LRT north of University Avenue where the Highway Dept. is planning a new 35E-35W expressway.
centralcorridor 2 years ago
Part 2 of my comment:
Also, 1/2 a mile is not too far to walk; for most people it's an issue of laziness. If you don't want to walk that far, hop on a bike, if you can't walk that far, give metro mobility a call, or hop on the 16, which will continue running.
daperpkazoo 3 years ago
The light rail will be considerably faster than a streetcar would be. A streetcar wouldn't likely be any6 faster than a bus at all, seeing as it wouldn't operate in its own ROW. Additionally, a 1950's era streetcar is not at all what they're like today; take a look at Portland (OR)'s streetcars, they look just like our LRVs here, except with one car instead of two. I'd much prefer to travel 45-55 mph with signal priority at lights than 25-30 mph stopping constantly, a bus does that just fine.
daperpkazoo 3 years ago
The proposed LRT on the 11-mile, 40 minute-plus route, won't travel 50 mph or even 30 mph. The proposed LRT on developed city streets will travel at about the same speed as the current limited-stop bus that it replaces
centralcorridor 3 years ago
Up to the 1950s there were over 400 miles track for the streetcars in the Twin Cities. Then along came organized crime and it was all gone. Actually Minneapolis is looking at putting the old TCRT units back into sevice by building a new line across town.
JJ4H340 3 years ago
@JJ4H340 The first being the Central Corridor line.
thomasrosiefan1 10 months ago
This is just one of the many, MANY wrong decisions the people in charge of planning the Central Corridor have made. The wrong choice, the wrong vehicle, the wrong location - really, it's harder to think of something these nitwits did RIGHT.
bbqplatypus318 3 years ago
As someone mentioned earlier, the distinction between street car and light rail is simply an American invention. If you go to any major European city with existing "street car" tracks, ie Berlin, Vienna, Krakow, etc. you will notice that the cars look identical to the LRVs and indeed are. Do you really believe that it will run at full speed down University?
WakeMag 4 years ago
As I mentioned earlier:
The proposed slow 11-mile light-rail line, with stops a mile apart on a developed commercial city street, would cost more than twice as much as a modern streetcar with more frequent stops. According to Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak, a streetcar line could be built for about $30 million/mile. That's $330 million for an 11-mile line. The estimated cost for the proposed 11-mile light-rail line is about a $billion. That's triple the cost for a streetcar line.
centralcorridor 3 years ago
Growing up in Calgary, we've had LRV's since 1979, now have 3 lines. They don't treat them as streetcars along the 7th Ave transit street and have platforms every block or two, in my humble opinion a true streetcar has stops as frequent as a transit bus and usually follows the street traffic signals, as opposed to a LRV which usually uses CTC for traffic control. Boston's streetcars are the closest to being a mix of streetcar/LRV in North America.
PGONEIL 4 years ago
To me, definately Light Rail!!! Where I now live in Orlando, Florida, needs a mass transit system, such as the Light Rail, so that therefore, there would be less traffic on I-4. HOWEVER, WHERE I'M ORIGINALLY FROM IN CHICAGO, NOTHING CAN AND WILL BEAT THE C.T.A., ESPECIALLY BOTH THE RED AND BLUE LINES!!!
AllenC040170 4 years ago
Make mine light rail. The streetcars would be ideal for rural settings, they have that nice, nostalgic look about them that would make a place for them there, but for metro/city commutes, the light rail is most preferrable and reliable.
Too bad my sorry home town can't seem to get either one, and both are needed here badly.
lqoneal 4 years ago
Coincidentaly this is also the question for Denver's central corridor.
I prefer light rail. Most often light rail has the ROW that a streetcar doesnt.
Eliyah78 4 years ago
I'd prefer light rail for speed and comfort and longer distance. Streetcar is good for short distances like in downtown loop or something like that.
wawonia 4 years ago
For people with a disability and people who want to get quickly from one place to another, in air-conditioned comfort, LRT wins over trams.
Condorcounter 4 years ago
Have you experineced the "air conditioned comfort" of the Hwy. 55 light-rail recently. When temperatures and humidity rise to uncomfortable levels, and the wide LRT doors open to allow the heat and humidity of enter the light-rail vehicle, I don't imagine there is a great deal of "air conditioned comfort."
centralcorridor 4 years ago
There's no difference between Light Rail and a modern tram (aka streetcar).
LMB222 4 years ago
The proposed slow, 35-minute end-to-end, 11-mile light-rail line, with stops a mile apart, on a developed commercial city street, would cost more than twice as much as a modern streetcar with more frequent stops. According to Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak, a streetcar line could be built for about $30 million/mile. That's $330 million for an 11-mile line. The estimated cost for the proposed 11-mile light-rail line is about a $billion. That's triple the cost for a streetcar line.
centralcorridor 4 years ago
I wouldn't trust a word you say after that biased video you made, anyway... Tram (streetcar) and light rail is essentially the same thing. Where I live (Poznan, Poland) the tram (streetcar) circles the downtown area, and then gets on an overpass and becomes "light rail". This term was coined in US to avoid the apparently negative associations with the old "streetcar".
LMB222 4 years ago
Light rail. You offer a bias view point which leads on emotion rather than rational balance. The speed noted in the last scene would not be adapted to the area pictured at the beginning. If this is what you were implying?
Quizier 4 years ago
The light-rail vehicle pictured in the last scene is the same vehicle that has been proposed by the Banking, Insurance, Government and other Big Business interests for the existing commercial and residential areas around University and Washington Avenues.
centralcorridor 4 years ago
Same vehicle, but not the same speed. Just because a bus can go 65 on the highway doesn't mean it's gonna go 65 down the back roads.
The last scene shows the LRVs going down a straight isolated track. If it goes through residential neighborhoods, it will either run slower, or they'll put up fencing. Either way, a modern LRV is much more efficent and reliable than an old turn of the century streetcar, so it makes sense to use the LRV for mass transit since it can carry more people faster.
dozzah 3 years ago
Trolley. The city was designed and built along the old trolley lines anyway. eg. Linden Hills, 50th & France, ect.
eluko79 4 years ago
Light Rail.
THEFINALHAZARD 4 years ago
I prefer the Street car, or "trolley" as I like to call it.
rayofminneapolis 4 years ago