Justice is revenge by committee. Groups of individuals can give themselves permission to do horrible things. Things that, if committed by an individual, would be considered criminal.
I think a quote from Gandhi best summarises what would happen in the system you are insinuating "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". do you really think torturing someone or degrading them would rehabilitate someone? I think this would probably give them a reason for revenge against the system by committing crimes or make them more psychotic than they were before. People commit crimes because they are under the influence that they will get away with it otherwise they wouldn't do it.
@MG110994 what a little idiot you are. Try e.g. have your own mother or girlfriend raped and murdered and then go and give the guy a big hug and a lot of money "to rehabilitate him". pfffffffffffffffffffffffff these f^^^^^^ hippies man...
@andrew52x So what is the solution to someone committing these crimes? You seem to misunderstand my views as I think people who are not able to get rehabilitation (e.g. real psychopath's) should be incarcerated indefinitely...
@andrew52x ...but should still be open to basic resources such as water, food and shelter (even small living quarters like cells) as every person should though I think the majority of people committing crimes can be rehabilitated and should so they can function in society, I would much rather a man that committed a crime against me or my family be locked up as punishment for his crimes but does not give me the right to torture, degrade or kill this man as this makes me no better than him.
The image of prison that you seem to have in your head is pretty distorted. I've heard men who have been to prison say it is awful. Constantly threat of getting assaulted or raped (or both), always around other lowlifes, paedophiles, murderers etc and this is the UK. American prisons are much harsher with the 23 hour lockdowns and gang culture.
theives should have their hands cut off, rapist should have there genitail cut off, murderers should be hung. a decrease in crime will soon follow. eye for an eye is not revenge it is punishment.
I totally agree. Should be way harde punishments handed out for criminall scumbags. For instance in my country (Sweden) prison is like a vacation. I can as likely rape a girl then be inside on vacation for 2 short years.
a criminal shouldnt even have a lawyer. only a judge and witnesses. once proven guilty if he killed someone inocent then he gets killed the same way. if he raped someone then stone him to death. if he stole something from someone else cut off his hand. that way u give justice to the victim, punishment for the criminal and in that way u also diminish crime rates.
but as i said. western idiots are upside down in everything. what is moral is wrong and what is imoral is good. upside down...
the west has gone backward. they are compassionate with criminals and they dont offer justice to crimes and they keep preaching to turn the other cheek. what the hell does that mean? let ur other daughter be raped too? haha
crazy ppl. eye for an eye tooth for a tooth. islamic justice is the best justice because allah sent it to us.
let the crazy western idiots be compasionate with their criminals, like gay ppl having sex with the same sex. they will collap[se soon becase of their coruption.
You actually make a good point. I never thought about just how 'fortunate' criminals are while in jail. You're basically arguing for the 'eye for an eye' kind of punishment. I think revenge is very justifiable according to you lol. The problem to me is, who will punish the murderer or rapist in the same way that the criminal murdered or raped their victim? The 'punisher' will then himself need to be punished in the same manner for harming a fellow human being in such a way.
@SamiZaatari - OK, but locking them up? Really? And as you know, getting a room in Dubai is equally illegal for unmarried couples - even as flatmates....Stop pretending everything is perfect in your country. This is typical Muslim myopia.
@rogan71 yes locking them up, it will act as a deterrent to others, and it works good. as for being illegal to have a room for an unmarried couple, that's their culture and religious values, if you don't like it, then don't go there, simple, they have their standards, quite funny now when you don't like their standards you complain but by the same token you demand muslims to respect your culture and values, follow your advice. that's their culture and religious values, so it's their right.
@SamiZaatari - Why not just kill them if you want to deter others? You've massively missed the point here. It's not a question of whether I like it or not, and when have I demanded that Muslims like our culture? - Not that it's in our 'culture' to have sex on the beach. You'll get arrested here for it too.. The double standards I saw in several Muslim countries was stunning. Arresting couples for kissing yet allowing in millions of prostitutes....Yep your society is a beacon in the fog!
@rogan71 every country has a criminal underworld, is that something new to you? allowing millions of prostitutes in? i never knew that when prostitutes entered a country they had prostitute-hooker as their occupation on their passport visa.
@SamiZaatari - Sami., you're so naive, it's frightening - I'll paint you the picture. ALL migrant workers into the UAE need an employer to sponsor then before arrival, so the millions of prostitutes are clearly being allowed despite having no sponsor...And as it's mostly local Arab's frequenting The Moscow Hotel, and numerous other brothels - As well as beating them up and leaving them on the Sheik Zayed Highway - Then my guess is it's considered a forgivable evil...Unlike kissing in public!
@rogan71 actually sir, many of the prostitutes come in on visit visas, which lasts them 3 months, i.e. tourist, you don't need an employer to sponsor that. :) and oh yes, it's only in the uae were prostitutes get abused and banged up, like that doesn't happen in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY with prostitutes. are you naive you actually think prostitutes in the west haven't bean abused and beaten up too?
@SamiZaatari - Actually Sami, that is my point...The UAE has exactly the same problems we have here, only we have 10 times the population....My point was never one is better then the other.
@SamiZaatari No, I merely pointed out that imprisoning people for kissing is extreme - and other related issues - I don't recall saying "my country is better than yours!" Just by pointing at someone's faults at doesn't mean you hate their culture, or think they should do exactly what you do....I think I know where your shortsightedness comes from...You first have to admit you have faults before you can gauge them.
@rogan71 your simply displaying your cultural imperialist attitude now, when crime happens in muslim world, it means government is hypocrites, but when the same thing happens in west in much larger portions, oh well its just crime what can you do? but in the muslim world, oh no, the government is complicit in it. give me a break. everything you just mentioned happens in the west too.
You are displaying your cultural imperialist attitude now Sami. By all means, if Muslims kiss on the streets then lock them up as a deterrent to other Muslims but why impose those same ideal on non-muslims? Why do cultural imperialist like you feel the only way Islam can make things better is to force the laws of Allah and the whims of her followers on the population?
@Megiddon its a muslim country DUHHHHHHHH, so actually YOU PROVED YOUR THE CULTURAL IMPERIALIST because you think none muslims can come to a muslim country and not be held to the law of the land, lollll talk about a true cultural imperialist. its a Muslim country, everybody has to follow the law, if your a foreigner you follow it, if you don't like it, don't go there, simple. but you displayed your imperialism you think westerners don't have to follow the laws of that land.
@Megiddon so i guess in western countries muslims need not follow the laws then eh? after all your secular ideals don't apply to all people, but you expect them to follow it, so by your own stupid standards you just called yourself a cultural imperialist because others are expected to live by your secular ideals.
No so, Secularism is not a culture in itself, it is a political system which encompasses all cultures and religions.
Think of Secularism as a pot holding all cultures and religions. All religions and cultures in the pot are equal and the laws are the same for everyone.
Islam has different laws and punishments for different cultures and religions designed to give Islam the upper hand.
@SamiZaatari -And please stop saying "if I don't like it don't go there" - as if that's anything other then the pointless blathering of a spoiled child! I truly do not care, but I'm not the one pointing fingers and then defending my own system regardless...Just because it's tradition or culture doesn't mean it's a good idea!
@rogan71 good idea or bad idea, for them it's a good idea, off course a westerner is gonna come complain saying ohhhh that's bad because it's not like our liberal system!
and again it's simple, their country, their culture, and their laws, it's not the west, not every country has to follow your secular liberal worldview, if you don't like that, then don't go there. most of the local emaritis also support these measures, and it's their country, not yours, so deal with it, they don't have to bow to your western liberal world view.
@stevenweir76 oh and another thing.Why is it when religious people snap you people start nagging and barking about their religious beliefs and how evil they are but when it comes to actual criminals you are all like oh their not evil just misunderstood i mean what is up with the double standards?Religious person gets nagged and non religious person gets sympathy WHY?Also please ,these criminals know exactly what they are doing.
@stevenweir76 look , brother Sami is not really that religious and you can tell that by the way he speaks.Second my dear friend if a justice system like that was in America there would be nothing but peace left and you would be able to sleep soundly at night without worrying about some criminal barging in. Look at the your bloody country and for Gods sake stop talking nonsense about caring about people, you have to strike fear i some peoples hearts to make peace prosper in society.
Also based on your comment "where inmates are murdered, beaten up, and raped," you cannot seem to decide whether the current system is a paradise where criminals get pampered, fed, and clothed, or a living hell where everyone is raped, beat, and murdered. Its one or the other!
Explain exactly what being "harshly dealt with" means. You say being "harshly dealt with" is "true justice." Who decides EXACTLY what this punishment is? You? The victim? The family of the victim? Everyone has a different idea of "true justice."
Maybe an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth? Then the whole world is blind and toothless. Everyone always thinks they are justified.
If you don't have a SPECIFIC idea that is better than the current system, then keep your ideas to yourself.
You believe in justice, how naive. Or perhaps vengeance, also naive. Violence begets violence and the fact is, these policies which go against your doctrine have served to lower crime rates meaning there are less victims to begin with. It seems that when society cares for its people, even the misguided, it is better off. But why think about it, you have religious dogma to adhere to.
If the punishment 'must' fit the crime, then the people dealing the justice (society) are no more than criminals themselves. You shouldn't take being locked up so lightly. Having no freedom is a mentally very straining situation. You keep saying fed and clothed, fed and clothed. You really think that is prison? I recommend you try a week of prison and see how you like it.
Yet at the same time taking the one thing that is essential for every human on earth; Their freedom. Showing them that even thou we are good to them we do not encourage the behaviour they have exhibited and that they should find another way to live their lives.
If we take revenge on those that do wrong, then we are no better than them, by providing for them and being kind to them, we show them that we are better persons than they are, setting an exampel for them to follow.
So they then support the U.S which in turn brings more suffering and they preach this to the other unfortunate muslims raised here who know only a little about Islam and the cycle goes on unless and until someone teaches them about the truth of Islam which they did not learn whilst indulging in their worldly pleasures. This is true for reverts and converts. The vast majority of "modern muslims" are either ignorant or brainwashed into believing the west is there to stick up for them how sad!
And that still goes on today. Ton's killed by the west, within and outside its borders while the ignorant people live it up and don't care about all the suffering they cause! So then they become addicted to their desires and won't even have god stand in their way. So what do they do? Turn their backs on their religion and their people because they find the luxurious life they lead in the west to be of far greater value.
Good stuff, Mr. Zaatari. The state of Texas has only a two week wait for the death penalty, after a criminal has been convicted of murder and some cases of rape. And guess what, it has the lowest crime rate in the United States.
I really like your videos Sami, but I disagree with you on some of the points on this topic, Islam does not teach you to go for revenge because it would cause tribal/civil/family wars,I have seen family fights where families support their own no questions asked and people died fighting.but as far as increasing the severity of punishments I agree with.But when true justice(punishment =crime) the victim/victim family would feel satisfaction because the perpetrator got what he/she deserved.
Western judicial system is, generally speaking, very light in punishments when the defendants are white. When the defendants are non-white the punishments are generally more harsher. Look at the perputrator in the Norway attacks. He may not get more than 20 years imprisonment for killing 60 innocent people. Can you imagine a non-white person getting away with such an extreme light punishment?
Recently in the Good Old USA a woman, murdered her own daughter and chopped her up into several bits...Her punishment? Hmm...14 years jail. How is that Justice? They say an eye for the eye makes the world go blind, but a slap on the hand keeps corruption in the land.
How about this: You believe that someone hurts your family, and in your emotional vindictive state, you hurt that person. Later it comes out that the person was actually innocent. So do you then deserve to be punished as revenge for hurting that person who was innocent?
@CMO999 "that person" is unlikely to be innocent unlike in our system (requires 4 witnesses). why don't u look at statistic. Criminals in Saudi is punished with Sharia principles. it demoralize other criminals. And if u compare with US the Saudi is actually protecting innocent bystanders from the criminals. As US criminals killed a lot of bystanders. Come on compare crime rate in US and Saudi. Oh and survey a prisoner to choose hand cut off or 15 years? see the results.
*Over 230 people, serving an average of 12 years in prison, have been exonerated through DNA testing in the United States, and 75% of those wrongful convictions (179 individual cases as of this writing) involved eyewitness misidentification.
*In 38% of the misidentification cases, multiple eyewitnesses misidentified the same innocent person.
@La19000 Your system is not so nice for women. They have to provide 4 men who witnessed them being raped, otherwise they themselves are punished for making the accusation? Sounds like heaven for a rapist, they have free reign to rape women. I much prefer an evidence based system.
@CMO999 Don't be fooled by liars. Our system could take evidence just as well as 4 witnesses. The 4 witness was made long before cameras ever existed. But if you must compare. The use of our system have resulted in low rape rate rather than in US.
@La19000 The use of your system has resulted in less rapes being REPORTED than in the U.S. That is because in the U.S. they do not punish women for being raped, so women are far more likely to press charges.
@CMO999 I don't know where you get the idea that rape victim is to be punished. but its an absolute right that rape victim is to receive money instead. Its black and white in hadith.The acts of individual has nothing to do with it. You must be watching fox news. 2nd it is reported more in middle east coz rape is VERY unlikely. And rape in US is so common. According to statistics, someone is being raped every 4 mins.
@La19000 I think what he means is if a woman reports a rape but she can't prove it, she faces consequences... following that assumption:
If you are raped, is it worth admitting extramarital sex took place, if the rapist can turn around and make it look like you wanted it? Then you are in trouble, no?
In the West women aren't be in trouble if the courts decide against them, so they feel more free to report it. Hence more reported rapes in the West (and the West counts marital rape).
@a7neu Yes women can't prosecute a man with too few evidence. But the whole point having this system is to avoid innocent getting punished. But say that the rapist did get away with it, The one that didn't faces sentence that is so severe that it demoralize other criminals unlike jail, the victim is STILL not SATISFIED (THIS IS A FACT). That IS the whole point. There are less rapist here and THAT is the most important thing.
@a7neu Yes you can and it's silly to say that "you wanted it" as a defense in a first place as it is still a crime of adultery for Islamic state. 2nd if you deny it, they can't prosecute you. And the man still get punished for not denying it. 3rd, if follow US law, rapist don't get punish properly = rape rate doesn't go down. And THIS results MORE will get away with it. See how many rapist actually get caught? As I said the most important thing is that rate goes down.
@La19000 I think maybe we have different ideas about what "rape" means. I consider rape to be when you decide that you are going to have sex with someone and do it regardless of what they think. A woman in a country that follows strict Sharia has no choice but to marry, she can't get an education or work. Then when her husband has his way with her, that is what we in civilized countries call "rape". I don't expect you to understand.
@CMO999 That is rubbish. Who told you that? I think you are brainwashed into thinking that especially the part about not having education. That can't be found anywhere in Sharia. The Bible maybe, about direct submission to a husband. Anyway, the quote by the Prophet PBUH Himself "Do not approach your wife unless it's foreplay". That is very clear, even with your wife can't be forced to have sex with.
@SamiZaatari What a hypocritical stance you take. You say that revenge is perfectly acceptable. So let me ask you this, why is it not acceptable for the criminal to take revenge against society and humanity? It was those things that inflicted harm upon him as a child that turned him into a criminal in the first place. You also made the same logical fallacy when you asked people to prove why revenge is not right, just like asking atheists to prove your imaginary "god" doesn't exist. Same idiocy.
This video has a vindictive tone.. Our justice system is not based on revenge, it is based on rehabilitation. Perpetuating violence is not going to do any good other than satisfying someone's vendetta.
@SamiZaatari "lol you gotta be joking if you think the prison system, where inmates are murdered, beaten up, and raped, is a 'rehabilitation' system lol."
Isn't this the same prison system that you just described as providing inmates with services such as health care? Awkward...
@SamiZaatari You just described prison as a "paradise", but now you're referring to it as a place "where inmates are murdered, beaten up, and raped".
You're views are also too "branded" by your religion. Mixing religion and politics has NEVER contributed to society. And I guess your pro-death penalty.
In your anti-abortion video you talk of life as such a precious thing, but now you think it's OK to justify one murder with another. I'm confused.
DEATH , , WHAT CAN YOU SAY ABOUT IT , A MEETING WITH YOUR CREATOR , I AGREE WITH THE DEATH PENALTY NOW . I HOPE MY HEART PROBLEM AND BAD LIFE WILL TAKE ME SOON IM ALMOST HAPPY TO MEET THE LORD OF THE WORLD MOST COMPASIONATE MOST MERCYFULL . THERES NO POINT ON THIS PAINFULL WORLD FULL OF EVIL AND DEATH , MY MOM KILLED MY 10 YEAR OLD RABBIT WHO WAS SO SMART , SOME FAKE STUDENT LOAN FUCKERS STEALING MY MONEY . I WOULD AGREE WITH DEATH FOR LOTS OF THINGS . AFTER LIFE IS WAY BETTER
I don't think it's particularly healthy for the avengers to all pumped up and satisfied hurting something at their mercy, as that is what the criminal did. It is better to resist the urge for their own sake IMHO.
Revenge involves making your feelings (eg satisfaction) dependent on the criminal's feelings (ie are they suffering enough) Again IMHO it is better to base your closure on what you've done to help, grieving, etc instead of how much you made them suffer (they will never suffer enough).
It will take some time but eventually the neurosciences will change the way the public views criminal activity, responsibility, free will, and choice.
i think there should be multiple level prison facilities and prisoners should be sent across state lines. the states would be subsidized by the national government based on the need and level of their prisons. non-violent criminals should be placed in facilities aimed at rehabilitation and re-education. violent criminals should be placed in much less hospitable prisons. this would prevent institutionalization of non-violent criminals and maximize rehabilitation of prisoners.
Islam is Justice For All of Man Kind. Capital punishment for anyone who Rapes a Child i think that's the Best Justice that Child will get. Thanks to Islam We know what Justice is. Jazak Allah khayer for this Video.
@frid9999 Our Beloved prophet Never C omitted such an act which is a norm in your Society Go look at the Statistics of Child Pornography in your Country & other so called civilized countries. & com-pair that with the Muslim Countries even tho most Muslim lands are Occupied but still the people are Muslims. You will find that Your Society is so Evil they would even try & Make money From selling Young Children to Sick Men & Women. as for your Statement Burn in Hell For it Insha Allah
Lets not also mention the inconsistency in our view. If a person attempts to murder another, their life is seen as less valuable to victims in the instance of self defense...meaning we consider it just if the victim kills the murderer to save their life or the life of others...but if the murderer is successful, all of a sudden their life is worth more? That's messed up.
It gets worse. Not only is it an injustice to the victims and their families, but its unjust to the criminals. For taking one life, they have to serve years or forever in prison isolated from society in a cage with other criminals...essentially psychological torture for the rest of their life. Their crimes are only distinguished by the amount of time. There is no "reform" in that.
SubhanAllah I totally agree with you. Most rapists get off free, they don't even spend a day in jail, just look at the US, the number of women being raped every day is outrageous! These rapists know that they wont be punished and so they have no fear of being punished for their crime. May Allah subhana wa ta'ala protect all my brothers and sisters. Ameen
Despite all religious beliefs lol this makes perfect sense, but we live in democratic society so yeah...and if revenge isn't right, at least harsh punishment would slow others from repeating the action, and if not, the person committing the crime is stupid enough to die anyways. We have a population issue worldwide anyways, so its economically and environmentally a good decision too
@iviewthetube "to deliver the punishments that their God allegedly is suppose to dole out." Their is punishment in the afterlife and there's punishment on earth, if you get punished on earth for your crime, then the crime is expunged from the "heavenly" books. And I think earthly punishment is way more lenient than the hereafter one. So, before you ask the question, I think you need to read about the theology. You're question isn't as "bright" as you think it is.
@psychlopes1976. I must already know enough about your theology because that is precisely the response I'd expect. So your answer is not as brilliant as you think.
@iviewthetube - It's not a response, it's an answer to your question, whether you expected it or not that's irrelevant, and whether you find it satisfactory or not is also irrelevant. You said "the punishment that God is supposed to dole," that isn't the case. Again, you don't know half of anything, the Islamic justice system is a vast discipline that you can't comprehend by just knowing a ruling or two
All I'm getting from this is an argument that appeals to emoition. "A punishment that fits the crime," What does that entail? Who decides? How do they go about deciding? It's ironic that you say that the op has nothing but a philosophical concept to back their argument, yet all you present here is an argument entirely based on emotion.
The quote "an eye for eye makes the world blind" holds a great deal of utility. Lashing out in violence and/or retribution only causes more violence.
All I'm getting from this is an argument that appeals to emoition. "A punishment that fits the crime," What does that entail? Who decides? How do they go about deciding? It's ironic that you say that the op has nothing but a philosophical concept to back their argument, yet all you present here is an argument entirely based on emotion.
The quote "an eye for eye makes the world blind" holds a great deal of utility. Lashing out in violence and/or retribution only causes more violence.
Well if anything, I think they need to make the judgement of "bail out with money" less optional. When big corporations screw the common man, they need to suffer actual prison time, or else it is usually nothing for them to pay out money.
If a member of government has embezzled money, than their punishment shouldn't be just a loss of a job (which usually comes with retirement pay) but actual jail time!
Well if anything, I think they need to make the judgement of "bail out with money" less optional. When big corporations screw the common man, they need to suffer actual prison time, or else it is usually nothing for them to pay out money.
If a member of government has embezzled money, than their punishment shouldn't be just a loss of a job (which usually comes with retirement pay) but actual jail time!
When our justice system protects and safeguards the criminal, but makes it hard for the victim and their families, this country is weak and pathetic! It only shows that the majority people in our society doesn't have the guts, balls or kahunas to stand up for what is right! Woe unto this country that says evil is good and good is evil! I tip my Hat off to you Sir, I'm glad to see someone with courage and boldness for a change!
@SamiZaatari I like the video's you make and upload to Youtube. However, I have a quesiton about Anjem Choudary. Apart from the fact that he has never revealed that 9/11 was an inside, non-Muslim Zionist job on the mainstream media, everything he says is true. What do you think?
@Ibrahim1109 Wow, i'm almost honoured that you learned to spell at last.
Also, would you be so kind and tell me what am i lying about ? Where you're from and i will educate you about your own home country and then how some things work in some other muslim lands. Especially about murder and rape. "You have been livin' in a dreamworld ..."
@unitasetmagus LOL You are such a joke! It blatantly clear that when it comes to Islam and Muslims you are very very ignorant. I'm positive you know nothing about muslim lands and Islam other than what the news or liars "exposing" Islam have "taught" you. And no sir, "you" are the one living in a dreamworld. Study your own corrupt society and laws then maybe you will learn something.Your lying about knowing what your talking about. Either lying or you fooled yourself into thinking that.
@Ibrahim1109 You can't ignore the problems forever. One day you must wake up and realise that the criticism was well justified. After-all, it takes quite some problems for people to take up arms and fight for justice. Just wait and see that it is going to become more common in your beloved islamic world that people are being fed up by the shit stuffed down their throats (,ears and eyes). Oh sorry, it's already happening.
@unitasetmagus Actually it is the ignorant/cultural muslims raised here who have false "freedom" and "justice" shoved down their throat to the point that they find that which Islam teaches (being healthy, moral,clean,just, generous, natural, etc.) to be barbaric when in reality the society they live in is just arrogant, greedy, and corrupt. They don't realize this nation is only here because of the destruction of a vast number of lives and because of the arrogance of the europeans.
You should be the last person who would have anything to say about this. You come from one of those barbaric countries where rapists and murderers are considered heroes let alone being punished. On top of that your so-called "justice system" kills everyone for some minor crime (or none-crime) like for having rational thoughts, being gay and what's worse - EXECUTES RAPE VICTIMS. Think before you post anything - HYPOCRITE.
Sure, justice could improve, but go preach that to muslims first.
@SamiZaatari Interesting video. I agree, harsher punishment for criminals. But I wonder, Sami, are you a left-winger? Because if you are, the left-wingers over here want more rights for the offender by treating him while in jail and then releasing him after 6-7 months and "giving him a new chance", even if we're talking about rape or heavy maltreatment. Crime, they say, is defeated by giving help to the criminal rather than give him what he actually deserves.
@SamiZaatari Interesting video. I agree, harsher punishment for criminals. But I wonder, Sami, are you a left-winger? Because if you are, the left-wingers over here want more rights for the offender by treating him while in jail and then releasing him after 6-7 months and "giving him a new chance", even if we're talking about rape or heavy maltreatment. Crime, they say, is defeated by giving help to the criminal rather than give him what he actually deserves.
Interesting video. I agree, harsher punishment for criminals. But I wonder, Sami, are you a left-winger? Because if you are, the left-wingers over here want more rights for the offender by treating him while in jail and then releasing him after 6-7 months and "giving him a new chance", even if we're talking about rape or heavy maltreatment. Crime, they say, is defeated by giving help to the criminal rather than give him what he actually deserves.
If prisoners receive food and shelter, so should the rest of the population!
IMO, the gov should be a role model to everyone and at the same time protect its citizens and punish criminals. By murdering/torturing itself, it is not a role model.
Also we as a society need a set of goals. What do we want to achieve? Do we want less crimes, or just the satisfaction of revenge (which in the end does no one any good)?
The prison system works (in theory, at least) to reduce the amount of crime that happens in 'free' society, not to punish the people who take rights from others. Of course, abuse always occurs between prisoners, but there's not much that can be done about that. I don't think they should be given computers, TV's, etc (which they often are), but basic things should be given.
Also, I like how you specifically said 'little children' specifically rather than just 'people'; appealing to emotion much?
@Gunderson002 yes i mentioned children because IT'S HAPPENING TO KIDS, i like to get specific to illustrate it for people to know, because your camp often try to play down the crime and speak more about the rights of the criminal.
Every crime happens to at least one member of any conceivable age-rage, gender, religion, race, etc, so that point is pretty much a complete non-sequitur.
Crimes against anyone of any age take away just as many rights as it does for others. It might have more psychological consequences, but objectively it takes away no more rights. It's a tragedy when it happens to anyone.
And I like how you only addressed the most trivial point in my comment and ignored everything else. :)
You make a case for the death penalty because people kill children then fools chime in and say " we need Shariah" and the next thing you now they are hanging gays, apostates, blasphemers and adulterers in public.
Islam also says that a muslim should not receive the death penalty for killing a disbeliever. (Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 3, Number 111)
I oppose the death penalty because it can be abused by governments and innocent people can be killed.
@Megiddon The U.S legal system is abused all the time. Sometimes its a death penalty wrongly inflicted on a man sometimes not, but how often are people's live's and families ruined? How many people are forced to do awful things in jail? How often are people killed from in-prison gang violence when their reason for being there was minor or haven been the poor guy who got wrongly convicted for a crime?
I don't think the death penalty is used to silence political opposition in the U.S unlike other countries, maybe Iran.
The issue here isn't really about the use of custodial sentences, but at least those who are imprisoned wrongly have the opportunity to challenge that sentence.
@Megiddon In Islamic court the people are heard before something is ordered. Meaning if someone is accused he is heard he isn't just sentenced because someone said he did this or that. Therefore they can challenge the accusation. If clear evidence is brought why should he be allowed to challenge the truth?? In the U.S a judge or biased jury can easily keep sending a person to jail no matter how many times he says hes innocent. And that's precisely the abuse I am talking about!
@Megiddon Yes and the defendant may also be unreliable, such as when he pleads not guilty then pleads guilty after striking a deal with them. Not to mention their attorneys may know clearly that their client is guilty, yet they help him/her avoid jail time and avoid the punishment they deserve. Certain Cases are checked by higher courts before a sentecing is carried out. So the likelihood of a misinterpretation is low. We shouldn't prolong the sentence just because one claims his innocence.
@Megiddon Not to mention there are plenty of corrupt police officers who will arrest innocent men and give false testimony and the defendant depending on his race and social status may not even be heard.
It's no secret people did that last century and they still do it today.
Whether or not it's the death penalty or not it still ruins lives and families.
Opposing the death penalty because of its possible abuse?
You may as well argue for anarchy then since any form of punishment can be abused. It's fallacious reasoning to abolish a punishment because of its potential abuse.
@DawahFilms because of its inevitable and well-documented abuse, and the fact that this abuse is completely irreversible, which sets it apart from any other punishment in the Western judicial system.
Long term imprisonment is the best balance we have between, as you say, anarchy, and killing innocent people. It takes criminals off the street and it allows for exoneration if that should be the case.
Its still irrational because the majority of people convicted fit the crime. If you want to have less mistakes you fix the way the law is applied, you don't get rid of the punishment. This is a non-sequitur.
And once again, I question whether life imprisonment (psychological torture) is somehow "better".
@DawahFilms I really don't think it is irrational or a non sequitur. I don't want less mistakes, I want 0 mistakes, where those mistakes cannot be reversed and, as Megiddon points out, compensated for. Mistakes are currently unavoidable so I don't think an irreversible punishment should be implemented.
Life imprisonment is only better because it can be reversed. If they'd rather be dead they can arrange that for themselves.
U dont understand very much of justice and social philosophy.
focusontheargument 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Go get 'em, Frank Castle.
JanK10000 3 months ago
Interesting.
Justice is revenge by committee. Groups of individuals can give themselves permission to do horrible things. Things that, if committed by an individual, would be considered criminal.
allidock11 3 months ago
I think a quote from Gandhi best summarises what would happen in the system you are insinuating "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". do you really think torturing someone or degrading them would rehabilitate someone? I think this would probably give them a reason for revenge against the system by committing crimes or make them more psychotic than they were before. People commit crimes because they are under the influence that they will get away with it otherwise they wouldn't do it.
MG110994 3 months ago
@MG110994 what a little idiot you are. Try e.g. have your own mother or girlfriend raped and murdered and then go and give the guy a big hug and a lot of money "to rehabilitate him". pfffffffffffffffffffffffff these f^^^^^^ hippies man...
andrew52x 2 months ago
Comment removed
MG110994 2 months ago
@andrew52x So what is the solution to someone committing these crimes? You seem to misunderstand my views as I think people who are not able to get rehabilitation (e.g. real psychopath's) should be incarcerated indefinitely...
MG110994 2 months ago
@andrew52x ...but should still be open to basic resources such as water, food and shelter (even small living quarters like cells) as every person should though I think the majority of people committing crimes can be rehabilitated and should so they can function in society, I would much rather a man that committed a crime against me or my family be locked up as punishment for his crimes but does not give me the right to torture, degrade or kill this man as this makes me no better than him.
MG110994 2 months ago
The image of prison that you seem to have in your head is pretty distorted. I've heard men who have been to prison say it is awful. Constantly threat of getting assaulted or raped (or both), always around other lowlifes, paedophiles, murderers etc and this is the UK. American prisons are much harsher with the 23 hour lockdowns and gang culture.
swinnock 3 months ago
theives should have their hands cut off, rapist should have there genitail cut off, murderers should be hung. a decrease in crime will soon follow. eye for an eye is not revenge it is punishment.
TheJosh1111111111111 4 months ago
I totally agree. Should be way harde punishments handed out for criminall scumbags. For instance in my country (Sweden) prison is like a vacation. I can as likely rape a girl then be inside on vacation for 2 short years.
hjula87 4 months ago
a criminal shouldnt even have a lawyer. only a judge and witnesses. once proven guilty if he killed someone inocent then he gets killed the same way. if he raped someone then stone him to death. if he stole something from someone else cut off his hand. that way u give justice to the victim, punishment for the criminal and in that way u also diminish crime rates.
but as i said. western idiots are upside down in everything. what is moral is wrong and what is imoral is good. upside down...
khalilrabee 4 months ago
the west has gone backward. they are compassionate with criminals and they dont offer justice to crimes and they keep preaching to turn the other cheek. what the hell does that mean? let ur other daughter be raped too? haha
crazy ppl. eye for an eye tooth for a tooth. islamic justice is the best justice because allah sent it to us.
let the crazy western idiots be compasionate with their criminals, like gay ppl having sex with the same sex. they will collap[se soon becase of their coruption.
khalilrabee 4 months ago
You actually make a good point. I never thought about just how 'fortunate' criminals are while in jail. You're basically arguing for the 'eye for an eye' kind of punishment. I think revenge is very justifiable according to you lol. The problem to me is, who will punish the murderer or rapist in the same way that the criminal murdered or raped their victim? The 'punisher' will then himself need to be punished in the same manner for harming a fellow human being in such a way.
tharwpoop 4 months ago
What about Dubai, where you go to prison for kissing or sneezing?
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71 i don't have a problem with that, nobody wants to see people kissing on the streets, go get a room for that.
SamiZaatari 4 months ago
@SamiZaatari - OK, but locking them up? Really? And as you know, getting a room in Dubai is equally illegal for unmarried couples - even as flatmates....Stop pretending everything is perfect in your country. This is typical Muslim myopia.
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71 yes locking them up, it will act as a deterrent to others, and it works good. as for being illegal to have a room for an unmarried couple, that's their culture and religious values, if you don't like it, then don't go there, simple, they have their standards, quite funny now when you don't like their standards you complain but by the same token you demand muslims to respect your culture and values, follow your advice. that's their culture and religious values, so it's their right.
SamiZaatari 4 months ago
@SamiZaatari - Why not just kill them if you want to deter others? You've massively missed the point here. It's not a question of whether I like it or not, and when have I demanded that Muslims like our culture? - Not that it's in our 'culture' to have sex on the beach. You'll get arrested here for it too.. The double standards I saw in several Muslim countries was stunning. Arresting couples for kissing yet allowing in millions of prostitutes....Yep your society is a beacon in the fog!
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71 every country has a criminal underworld, is that something new to you? allowing millions of prostitutes in? i never knew that when prostitutes entered a country they had prostitute-hooker as their occupation on their passport visa.
SamiZaatari 4 months ago
@SamiZaatari - Sami., you're so naive, it's frightening - I'll paint you the picture. ALL migrant workers into the UAE need an employer to sponsor then before arrival, so the millions of prostitutes are clearly being allowed despite having no sponsor...And as it's mostly local Arab's frequenting The Moscow Hotel, and numerous other brothels - As well as beating them up and leaving them on the Sheik Zayed Highway - Then my guess is it's considered a forgivable evil...Unlike kissing in public!
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71 actually sir, many of the prostitutes come in on visit visas, which lasts them 3 months, i.e. tourist, you don't need an employer to sponsor that. :) and oh yes, it's only in the uae were prostitutes get abused and banged up, like that doesn't happen in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY with prostitutes. are you naive you actually think prostitutes in the west haven't bean abused and beaten up too?
SamiZaatari 4 months ago
@SamiZaatari - Actually Sami, that is my point...The UAE has exactly the same problems we have here, only we have 10 times the population....My point was never one is better then the other.
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71 who are you arguing with then? where did i say one is better than the other, you basically started this argument out of no where.
SamiZaatari 4 months ago
@SamiZaatari No, I merely pointed out that imprisoning people for kissing is extreme - and other related issues - I don't recall saying "my country is better than yours!" Just by pointing at someone's faults at doesn't mean you hate their culture, or think they should do exactly what you do....I think I know where your shortsightedness comes from...You first have to admit you have faults before you can gauge them.
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71 your simply displaying your cultural imperialist attitude now, when crime happens in muslim world, it means government is hypocrites, but when the same thing happens in west in much larger portions, oh well its just crime what can you do? but in the muslim world, oh no, the government is complicit in it. give me a break. everything you just mentioned happens in the west too.
SamiZaatari 4 months ago
@SamiZaatari
You are displaying your cultural imperialist attitude now Sami. By all means, if Muslims kiss on the streets then lock them up as a deterrent to other Muslims but why impose those same ideal on non-muslims? Why do cultural imperialist like you feel the only way Islam can make things better is to force the laws of Allah and the whims of her followers on the population?
Megiddon 4 months ago
@Megiddon its a muslim country DUHHHHHHHH, so actually YOU PROVED YOUR THE CULTURAL IMPERIALIST because you think none muslims can come to a muslim country and not be held to the law of the land, lollll talk about a true cultural imperialist. its a Muslim country, everybody has to follow the law, if your a foreigner you follow it, if you don't like it, don't go there, simple. but you displayed your imperialism you think westerners don't have to follow the laws of that land.
SamiZaatari 4 months ago
@SamiZaatari
If someone in a Muslim country opposes the Islamic regime so kills one of their oppressors do you think they should receive the death penalty?
Megiddon 4 months ago
Comment removed
KNOWNMuslim001 3 months ago
@Megiddon so i guess in western countries muslims need not follow the laws then eh? after all your secular ideals don't apply to all people, but you expect them to follow it, so by your own stupid standards you just called yourself a cultural imperialist because others are expected to live by your secular ideals.
SamiZaatari 4 months ago
@SamiZaatari
No so, Secularism is not a culture in itself, it is a political system which encompasses all cultures and religions.
Think of Secularism as a pot holding all cultures and religions. All religions and cultures in the pot are equal and the laws are the same for everyone.
Islam has different laws and punishments for different cultures and religions designed to give Islam the upper hand.
Megiddon 4 months ago
@SamiZaatari -And please stop saying "if I don't like it don't go there" - as if that's anything other then the pointless blathering of a spoiled child! I truly do not care, but I'm not the one pointing fingers and then defending my own system regardless...Just because it's tradition or culture doesn't mean it's a good idea!
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71 good idea or bad idea, for them it's a good idea, off course a westerner is gonna come complain saying ohhhh that's bad because it's not like our liberal system!
SamiZaatari 4 months ago
and again it's simple, their country, their culture, and their laws, it's not the west, not every country has to follow your secular liberal worldview, if you don't like that, then don't go there. most of the local emaritis also support these measures, and it's their country, not yours, so deal with it, they don't have to bow to your western liberal world view.
SamiZaatari 4 months ago
@SamiZaatari will u be participating in the jinn and tonic show
Hamza5274 5 months ago
You seem to be an expert on the subject, but have you ever been to prison?
You are one sorry, and very primitive human being. How will murder and violation justify murder and violation?
In your previous anti-abortion video, you kept mentioning how precious every single life is.
Who has given you the right, to rule over life and death?
PanicPlague 5 months ago
@PanicPlague life is precious, that's why a criminal who takes a life away or harms a life needs a SEVERE PUNISHMENT.
SamiZaatari 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SamiZaatari I assume you're not going to answer any of my questions.
PanicPlague 5 months ago
@stevenweir76 oh and another thing.Why is it when religious people snap you people start nagging and barking about their religious beliefs and how evil they are but when it comes to actual criminals you are all like oh their not evil just misunderstood i mean what is up with the double standards?Religious person gets nagged and non religious person gets sympathy WHY?Also please ,these criminals know exactly what they are doing.
ofsrshahi 5 months ago
@stevenweir76 look , brother Sami is not really that religious and you can tell that by the way he speaks.Second my dear friend if a justice system like that was in America there would be nothing but peace left and you would be able to sleep soundly at night without worrying about some criminal barging in. Look at the your bloody country and for Gods sake stop talking nonsense about caring about people, you have to strike fear i some peoples hearts to make peace prosper in society.
ofsrshahi 5 months ago
Also based on your comment "where inmates are murdered, beaten up, and raped," you cannot seem to decide whether the current system is a paradise where criminals get pampered, fed, and clothed, or a living hell where everyone is raped, beat, and murdered. Its one or the other!
bafarrell82 5 months ago 2
Explain exactly what being "harshly dealt with" means. You say being "harshly dealt with" is "true justice." Who decides EXACTLY what this punishment is? You? The victim? The family of the victim? Everyone has a different idea of "true justice."
Maybe an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth? Then the whole world is blind and toothless. Everyone always thinks they are justified.
If you don't have a SPECIFIC idea that is better than the current system, then keep your ideas to yourself.
bafarrell82 5 months ago
You believe in justice, how naive. Or perhaps vengeance, also naive. Violence begets violence and the fact is, these policies which go against your doctrine have served to lower crime rates meaning there are less victims to begin with. It seems that when society cares for its people, even the misguided, it is better off. But why think about it, you have religious dogma to adhere to.
stevenweir76 5 months ago
its called rehabilitation-instead-of-punishment
jigglyfidda125 5 months ago
How just is the justice system if muslims aren't fucked in the ass by horses on sight?
NormanDates 5 months ago
If the punishment 'must' fit the crime, then the people dealing the justice (society) are no more than criminals themselves. You shouldn't take being locked up so lightly. Having no freedom is a mentally very straining situation. You keep saying fed and clothed, fed and clothed. You really think that is prison? I recommend you try a week of prison and see how you like it.
RationalAtheism 5 months ago
I think your 100% wright! thank you for sharing your thoughts!
sgforlife88 5 months ago
Continued from last comment
Yet at the same time taking the one thing that is essential for every human on earth; Their freedom. Showing them that even thou we are good to them we do not encourage the behaviour they have exhibited and that they should find another way to live their lives.
tdctop 5 months ago
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you
—Luke 6:27. KJV
If we take revenge on those that do wrong, then we are no better than them, by providing for them and being kind to them, we show them that we are better persons than they are, setting an exampel for them to follow.
tdctop 5 months ago
@Islamtalk100 that is if it is implemented correctly, but for that we need a real Islamic society.
MatrixOfDynamism 5 months ago
And they say sharia law is not justice. subhanallah.
pantherlake2002 5 months ago
Don't need to mention Sami that Dictators mostly use prisons as Dogs' cages
Unleash them when the tides turn against them
SoProudMuslim 5 months ago
So they then support the U.S which in turn brings more suffering and they preach this to the other unfortunate muslims raised here who know only a little about Islam and the cycle goes on unless and until someone teaches them about the truth of Islam which they did not learn whilst indulging in their worldly pleasures. This is true for reverts and converts. The vast majority of "modern muslims" are either ignorant or brainwashed into believing the west is there to stick up for them how sad!
Ibrahim1109 5 months ago
And that still goes on today. Ton's killed by the west, within and outside its borders while the ignorant people live it up and don't care about all the suffering they cause! So then they become addicted to their desires and won't even have god stand in their way. So what do they do? Turn their backs on their religion and their people because they find the luxurious life they lead in the west to be of far greater value.
Ibrahim1109 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
A History of Violence (Edge Master Class 2011)
edge(.)org/conversation/mc2011-history-violence-pinker
Learn something, Sami! :-)
Wrath0fKhan 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Revenge is brilliant. Kill Bill, Death Wish, Old Boy, Dead Man's Shoes. We are talking about fiction and not the real world right.
MrMrtomblake 5 months ago
Comment removed
MrMrtomblake 5 months ago
"Hell yeah that person needs to be punished!"
Good stuff, Mr. Zaatari. The state of Texas has only a two week wait for the death penalty, after a criminal has been convicted of murder and some cases of rape. And guess what, it has the lowest crime rate in the United States.
ExpendableGuy 5 months ago
@ExpendableGuy
Texas has the lowest crime rate in the United States? I don't believe you.
Megiddon 5 months ago
I really like your videos Sami, but I disagree with you on some of the points on this topic, Islam does not teach you to go for revenge because it would cause tribal/civil/family wars,I have seen family fights where families support their own no questions asked and people died fighting.but as far as increasing the severity of punishments I agree with.But when true justice(punishment =crime) the victim/victim family would feel satisfaction because the perpetrator got what he/she deserved.
perfect1oNN 5 months ago
If I ever go homeless, I'm gonna assault someone and go to jail :D
draydrone 5 months ago
Western judicial system is, generally speaking, very light in punishments when the defendants are white. When the defendants are non-white the punishments are generally more harsher. Look at the perputrator in the Norway attacks. He may not get more than 20 years imprisonment for killing 60 innocent people. Can you imagine a non-white person getting away with such an extreme light punishment?
Invesigator 5 months ago
@Invesigator
You are lumping together the entire "West"? The Norway murder was not given a sentence according to his skin color.
jeb31415 5 months ago
@cayetanoluis That's a good point! I think intuitively he knows that is not real.
CMO999 5 months ago
@frid9999 That never happened, in the case of the Prophet, you piece of shit.
truebeliever786 5 months ago
Recently in the Good Old USA a woman, murdered her own daughter and chopped her up into several bits...Her punishment? Hmm...14 years jail. How is that Justice? They say an eye for the eye makes the world go blind, but a slap on the hand keeps corruption in the land.
ramio1983 5 months ago
How about this: You believe that someone hurts your family, and in your emotional vindictive state, you hurt that person. Later it comes out that the person was actually innocent. So do you then deserve to be punished as revenge for hurting that person who was innocent?
CMO999 5 months ago
@CMO999 "that person" is unlikely to be innocent unlike in our system (requires 4 witnesses). why don't u look at statistic. Criminals in Saudi is punished with Sharia principles. it demoralize other criminals. And if u compare with US the Saudi is actually protecting innocent bystanders from the criminals. As US criminals killed a lot of bystanders. Come on compare crime rate in US and Saudi. Oh and survey a prisoner to choose hand cut off or 15 years? see the results.
La19000 5 months ago
@La19000
*Over 230 people, serving an average of 12 years in prison, have been exonerated through DNA testing in the United States, and 75% of those wrongful convictions (179 individual cases as of this writing) involved eyewitness misidentification.
*In 38% of the misidentification cases, multiple eyewitnesses misidentified the same innocent person.
innocenceproject. org /Content/Reevaluating_Lineups_Why_Witnesses_Make_Mistakes_and_How_to_Reduce_the_Chance_of_a_Misidentification.php
a7neu 5 months ago
@La19000 Your system is not so nice for women. They have to provide 4 men who witnessed them being raped, otherwise they themselves are punished for making the accusation? Sounds like heaven for a rapist, they have free reign to rape women. I much prefer an evidence based system.
CMO999 5 months ago
@CMO999 Don't be fooled by liars. Our system could take evidence just as well as 4 witnesses. The 4 witness was made long before cameras ever existed. But if you must compare. The use of our system have resulted in low rape rate rather than in US.
La19000 5 months ago
@La19000 The use of your system has resulted in less rapes being REPORTED than in the U.S. That is because in the U.S. they do not punish women for being raped, so women are far more likely to press charges.
CMO999 5 months ago
@CMO999 I don't know where you get the idea that rape victim is to be punished. but its an absolute right that rape victim is to receive money instead. Its black and white in hadith.The acts of individual has nothing to do with it. You must be watching fox news. 2nd it is reported more in middle east coz rape is VERY unlikely. And rape in US is so common. According to statistics, someone is being raped every 4 mins.
La19000 5 months ago
@La19000 I think what he means is if a woman reports a rape but she can't prove it, she faces consequences... following that assumption:
If you are raped, is it worth admitting extramarital sex took place, if the rapist can turn around and make it look like you wanted it? Then you are in trouble, no?
In the West women aren't be in trouble if the courts decide against them, so they feel more free to report it. Hence more reported rapes in the West (and the West counts marital rape).
a7neu 5 months ago
@a7neu Yes women can't prosecute a man with too few evidence. But the whole point having this system is to avoid innocent getting punished. But say that the rapist did get away with it, The one that didn't faces sentence that is so severe that it demoralize other criminals unlike jail, the victim is STILL not SATISFIED (THIS IS A FACT). That IS the whole point. There are less rapist here and THAT is the most important thing.
La19000 5 months ago
@La19000 no it isn't just that you can't prosecute with too little evidence.
It's that to prosecute in the first place you have to say "I was raped by this man" ie intercourse took place
To defend himself against your accusation, he says you wanted it.
They find his semen in you, but nothing to indicate it wasn't consensual.
Now what? A crime has definitely been committed. It could be rape. Or it could be adultery/fornication. So what are the court's options?
YOU can be charged now, no?
a7neu 5 months ago
@a7neu Yes you can and it's silly to say that "you wanted it" as a defense in a first place as it is still a crime of adultery for Islamic state. 2nd if you deny it, they can't prosecute you. And the man still get punished for not denying it. 3rd, if follow US law, rapist don't get punish properly = rape rate doesn't go down. And THIS results MORE will get away with it. See how many rapist actually get caught? As I said the most important thing is that rate goes down.
La19000 5 months ago
@La19000 I think maybe we have different ideas about what "rape" means. I consider rape to be when you decide that you are going to have sex with someone and do it regardless of what they think. A woman in a country that follows strict Sharia has no choice but to marry, she can't get an education or work. Then when her husband has his way with her, that is what we in civilized countries call "rape". I don't expect you to understand.
CMO999 5 months ago
@CMO999 That is rubbish. Who told you that? I think you are brainwashed into thinking that especially the part about not having education. That can't be found anywhere in Sharia. The Bible maybe, about direct submission to a husband. Anyway, the quote by the Prophet PBUH Himself "Do not approach your wife unless it's foreplay". That is very clear, even with your wife can't be forced to have sex with.
La19000 5 months ago
@CMO999
Its hard to take you seriously when you don't understand Sharia.
DawahFilms 5 months ago
@CMO999 yes.
SamiZaatari 5 months ago
@SamiZaatari Elaborate, please.
PanicPlague 5 months ago
@SamiZaatari Elaborate, please.
PanicPlague 5 months ago
@SamiZaatari What a hypocritical stance you take. You say that revenge is perfectly acceptable. So let me ask you this, why is it not acceptable for the criminal to take revenge against society and humanity? It was those things that inflicted harm upon him as a child that turned him into a criminal in the first place. You also made the same logical fallacy when you asked people to prove why revenge is not right, just like asking atheists to prove your imaginary "god" doesn't exist. Same idiocy.
GoldCoinCollector 5 months ago 2
This video has a vindictive tone.. Our justice system is not based on revenge, it is based on rehabilitation. Perpetuating violence is not going to do any good other than satisfying someone's vendetta.
CMO999 5 months ago
@CMO999 lol you gotta be joking if you think the prison system, where inmates are murdered, beaten up, and raped, is a 'rehabilitation' system lol.
SamiZaatari 5 months ago 17
This has been flagged as spam show
@SamiZaatari "lol you gotta be joking if you think the prison system, where inmates are murdered, beaten up, and raped, is a 'rehabilitation' system lol."
Isn't this the same prison system that you just described as providing inmates with services such as health care? Awkward...
Keep up a straight story.
GoingGoingGalt 5 months ago
@SamiZaatari I don't know what country you live in. I live in Canada and the jail system is not that bad. Are you in the United States?
CMO999 5 months ago
@SamiZaatari
sounds like a pretty good system to me.
Child rapist dead? oh no, thats awful.
(sarcasm noted)
Konohagakure8 5 months ago
@Konohagakure8
well, it is an unjust system. and the the punishment should be worse than death.
But thats not the ideal world the politicians and higher ups strive for, so we are trapped for now.
Konohagakure8 5 months ago
@SamiZaatari You just described prison as a "paradise", but now you're referring to it as a place "where inmates are murdered, beaten up, and raped".
You're views are also too "branded" by your religion. Mixing religion and politics has NEVER contributed to society. And I guess your pro-death penalty.
In your anti-abortion video you talk of life as such a precious thing, but now you think it's OK to justify one murder with another. I'm confused.
PanicPlague 5 months ago
@frid9999 anything new? Whats next Allah is the moon god? lol come on! Pathetic!
Ibrahim1109 5 months ago
انعن ابو اللغه ياشيخ..تحية لك..امنيتي املك لغتك ^_^
TheAtwi 5 months ago
DEATH , , WHAT CAN YOU SAY ABOUT IT , A MEETING WITH YOUR CREATOR , I AGREE WITH THE DEATH PENALTY NOW . I HOPE MY HEART PROBLEM AND BAD LIFE WILL TAKE ME SOON IM ALMOST HAPPY TO MEET THE LORD OF THE WORLD MOST COMPASIONATE MOST MERCYFULL . THERES NO POINT ON THIS PAINFULL WORLD FULL OF EVIL AND DEATH , MY MOM KILLED MY 10 YEAR OLD RABBIT WHO WAS SO SMART , SOME FAKE STUDENT LOAN FUCKERS STEALING MY MONEY . I WOULD AGREE WITH DEATH FOR LOTS OF THINGS . AFTER LIFE IS WAY BETTER
pkmnmaster29 5 months ago
@pkmnmaster29 You said, "AFTER LIFE IS WAY BETTER"
Don't count on it. Ask yourself is there really any evidence at all?
frid9999 5 months ago
@frid9999 do you know about day of resurrection, and punishment of the grave thats all that i know thats bad so far
pkmnmaster29 5 months ago
I don't think it's particularly healthy for the avengers to all pumped up and satisfied hurting something at their mercy, as that is what the criminal did. It is better to resist the urge for their own sake IMHO.
Revenge involves making your feelings (eg satisfaction) dependent on the criminal's feelings (ie are they suffering enough) Again IMHO it is better to base your closure on what you've done to help, grieving, etc instead of how much you made them suffer (they will never suffer enough).
a7neu 5 months ago
Wow, you are sounding like Pat Condell in this video
watch?v=9pAC0YSmK0g
iviewthetube 5 months ago
It will take some time but eventually the neurosciences will change the way the public views criminal activity, responsibility, free will, and choice.
iviewthetube 5 months ago
i think there should be multiple level prison facilities and prisoners should be sent across state lines. the states would be subsidized by the national government based on the need and level of their prisons. non-violent criminals should be placed in facilities aimed at rehabilitation and re-education. violent criminals should be placed in much less hospitable prisons. this would prevent institutionalization of non-violent criminals and maximize rehabilitation of prisoners.
greycloud24 5 months ago
Islam is Justice For All of Man Kind. Capital punishment for anyone who Rapes a Child i think that's the Best Justice that Child will get. Thanks to Islam We know what Justice is. Jazak Allah khayer for this Video.
Aws8819 5 months ago 2
@Aws8819 You said, "Capital punishment for anyone who Rapes a Child"
Yikes. How can you say such bad things about your own "prophet"?
frid9999 5 months ago
@frid9999 Our Beloved prophet Never C omitted such an act which is a norm in your Society Go look at the Statistics of Child Pornography in your Country & other so called civilized countries. & com-pair that with the Muslim Countries even tho most Muslim lands are Occupied but still the people are Muslims. You will find that Your Society is so Evil they would even try & Make money From selling Young Children to Sick Men & Women. as for your Statement Burn in Hell For it Insha Allah
Aws8819 5 months ago
@Aws8819 Don't get mad at me. I am just repeating the facts as reported by Sahih Muslim (8:3311) and Sahih Bukhari (5:58:234 and 236).
frid9999 5 months ago
Lets not also mention the inconsistency in our view. If a person attempts to murder another, their life is seen as less valuable to victims in the instance of self defense...meaning we consider it just if the victim kills the murderer to save their life or the life of others...but if the murderer is successful, all of a sudden their life is worth more? That's messed up.
DawahFilms 5 months ago
I tend to think that more of our behavior is genetically controlled than most of us are willing to admit.
iviewthetube 5 months ago
It gets worse. Not only is it an injustice to the victims and their families, but its unjust to the criminals. For taking one life, they have to serve years or forever in prison isolated from society in a cage with other criminals...essentially psychological torture for the rest of their life. Their crimes are only distinguished by the amount of time. There is no "reform" in that.
DawahFilms 5 months ago
SubhanAllah I totally agree with you. Most rapists get off free, they don't even spend a day in jail, just look at the US, the number of women being raped every day is outrageous! These rapists know that they wont be punished and so they have no fear of being punished for their crime. May Allah subhana wa ta'ala protect all my brothers and sisters. Ameen
thegoldstar5 5 months ago
Despite all religious beliefs lol this makes perfect sense, but we live in democratic society so yeah...and if revenge isn't right, at least harsh punishment would slow others from repeating the action, and if not, the person committing the crime is stupid enough to die anyways. We have a population issue worldwide anyways, so its economically and environmentally a good decision too
draydrone 5 months ago
The World is in need of Shari'ah.
dcfnfb121 5 months ago
Not to undermine the importance of protecting society but...
Why is it that the God/Allah believers are the first to stand in line to deliver the punishments that their God allegedly is suppose to dole out.
iviewthetube 5 months ago
@iviewthetube god wasnt mentioned in this video....neither was religion
draydrone 5 months ago
@iviewthetube "to deliver the punishments that their God allegedly is suppose to dole out." Their is punishment in the afterlife and there's punishment on earth, if you get punished on earth for your crime, then the crime is expunged from the "heavenly" books. And I think earthly punishment is way more lenient than the hereafter one. So, before you ask the question, I think you need to read about the theology. You're question isn't as "bright" as you think it is.
psychlopes1976 5 months ago
@psychlopes1976. I must already know enough about your theology because that is precisely the response I'd expect. So your answer is not as brilliant as you think.
iviewthetube 5 months ago
@iviewthetube - It's not a response, it's an answer to your question, whether you expected it or not that's irrelevant, and whether you find it satisfactory or not is also irrelevant. You said "the punishment that God is supposed to dole," that isn't the case. Again, you don't know half of anything, the Islamic justice system is a vast discipline that you can't comprehend by just knowing a ruling or two
psychlopes1976 5 months ago
WEll bro, thats why we need shariah, a truelly just system. This democratic shitsystem doesnt work... at all
Madhofd 5 months ago
@MasterLewis101 The letter P is kind of too much ( that ruin his/her life forever O.o) but i agree on the rest.
DraskyVanderhoff 5 months ago
All I'm getting from this is an argument that appeals to emoition. "A punishment that fits the crime," What does that entail? Who decides? How do they go about deciding? It's ironic that you say that the op has nothing but a philosophical concept to back their argument, yet all you present here is an argument entirely based on emotion.
The quote "an eye for eye makes the world blind" holds a great deal of utility. Lashing out in violence and/or retribution only causes more violence.
Ninjathor 5 months ago
All I'm getting from this is an argument that appeals to emoition. "A punishment that fits the crime," What does that entail? Who decides? How do they go about deciding? It's ironic that you say that the op has nothing but a philosophical concept to back their argument, yet all you present here is an argument entirely based on emotion.
The quote "an eye for eye makes the world blind" holds a great deal of utility. Lashing out in violence and/or retribution only causes more violence.
Ninjathor 5 months ago
Well if anything, I think they need to make the judgement of "bail out with money" less optional. When big corporations screw the common man, they need to suffer actual prison time, or else it is usually nothing for them to pay out money.
If a member of government has embezzled money, than their punishment shouldn't be just a loss of a job (which usually comes with retirement pay) but actual jail time!
LampPlaceThing 5 months ago
Well if anything, I think they need to make the judgement of "bail out with money" less optional. When big corporations screw the common man, they need to suffer actual prison time, or else it is usually nothing for them to pay out money.
If a member of government has embezzled money, than their punishment shouldn't be just a loss of a job (which usually comes with retirement pay) but actual jail time!
LampPlaceThing 5 months ago
When our justice system protects and safeguards the criminal, but makes it hard for the victim and their families, this country is weak and pathetic! It only shows that the majority people in our society doesn't have the guts, balls or kahunas to stand up for what is right! Woe unto this country that says evil is good and good is evil! I tip my Hat off to you Sir, I'm glad to see someone with courage and boldness for a change!
VICTORY2037 5 months ago
Just one thing... Clear us what would be that Harsh Punishment for Murders and Rapist ?
I would be good enough if they must pay everything with their work ?
DraskyVanderhoff 5 months ago
First time i'm very agree with you.
DraskyVanderhoff 5 months ago
Ameyn!
VICTORY2037 5 months ago
Sami, how come you stopped writing rebuttals to the missionaries on muslim responses?
itcrowdfan92 5 months ago
@itcrowdfan92 most of their arguments have been dealt with. they just repeat themselves now.
SamiZaatari 5 months ago 13
@SamiZaatari I like the video's you make and upload to Youtube. However, I have a quesiton about Anjem Choudary. Apart from the fact that he has never revealed that 9/11 was an inside, non-Muslim Zionist job on the mainstream media, everything he says is true. What do you think?
Invesigator 5 months ago
@unit Thanks for making yourself look like an ignorant fool. You have no idea what your talking about just be silent!
Ibrahim1109 5 months ago
@Ibrahim1109 Says the man who can't even spell my alias. I know very well what i'm talking about.
unitasetmagus 5 months ago
@unitasetmagus Your lying through your teeth! Your ignorance is obvious! Do yourself a favor and zip-it.
Ibrahim1109 5 months ago
@Ibrahim1109 Wow, i'm almost honoured that you learned to spell at last.
Also, would you be so kind and tell me what am i lying about ? Where you're from and i will educate you about your own home country and then how some things work in some other muslim lands. Especially about murder and rape. "You have been livin' in a dreamworld ..."
unitasetmagus 5 months ago
@unitasetmagus LOL You are such a joke! It blatantly clear that when it comes to Islam and Muslims you are very very ignorant. I'm positive you know nothing about muslim lands and Islam other than what the news or liars "exposing" Islam have "taught" you. And no sir, "you" are the one living in a dreamworld. Study your own corrupt society and laws then maybe you will learn something.Your lying about knowing what your talking about. Either lying or you fooled yourself into thinking that.
Ibrahim1109 5 months ago
@Ibrahim1109 You can't ignore the problems forever. One day you must wake up and realise that the criticism was well justified. After-all, it takes quite some problems for people to take up arms and fight for justice. Just wait and see that it is going to become more common in your beloved islamic world that people are being fed up by the shit stuffed down their throats (,ears and eyes). Oh sorry, it's already happening.
unitasetmagus 5 months ago
@unitasetmagus Actually it is the ignorant/cultural muslims raised here who have false "freedom" and "justice" shoved down their throat to the point that they find that which Islam teaches (being healthy, moral,clean,just, generous, natural, etc.) to be barbaric when in reality the society they live in is just arrogant, greedy, and corrupt. They don't realize this nation is only here because of the destruction of a vast number of lives and because of the arrogance of the europeans.
Ibrahim1109 5 months ago
You should be the last person who would have anything to say about this. You come from one of those barbaric countries where rapists and murderers are considered heroes let alone being punished. On top of that your so-called "justice system" kills everyone for some minor crime (or none-crime) like for having rational thoughts, being gay and what's worse - EXECUTES RAPE VICTIMS. Think before you post anything - HYPOCRITE.
Sure, justice could improve, but go preach that to muslims first.
unitasetmagus 5 months ago
@unitasetmagus u mad?
Y3M37H 5 months ago
@Y3M37H Of course. I must be.
unitasetmagus 5 months ago
The quran and hadith are so ignorant and primitive next to the sciences of criminology, sociology and psychology.
frid9999 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SamiZaatari Interesting video. I agree, harsher punishment for criminals. But I wonder, Sami, are you a left-winger? Because if you are, the left-wingers over here want more rights for the offender by treating him while in jail and then releasing him after 6-7 months and "giving him a new chance", even if we're talking about rape or heavy maltreatment. Crime, they say, is defeated by giving help to the criminal rather than give him what he actually deserves.
yoshobbit 5 months ago
@SamiZaatari Interesting video. I agree, harsher punishment for criminals. But I wonder, Sami, are you a left-winger? Because if you are, the left-wingers over here want more rights for the offender by treating him while in jail and then releasing him after 6-7 months and "giving him a new chance", even if we're talking about rape or heavy maltreatment. Crime, they say, is defeated by giving help to the criminal rather than give him what he actually deserves.
yoshobbit 5 months ago
Interesting video. I agree, harsher punishment for criminals. But I wonder, Sami, are you a left-winger? Because if you are, the left-wingers over here want more rights for the offender by treating him while in jail and then releasing him after 6-7 months and "giving him a new chance", even if we're talking about rape or heavy maltreatment. Crime, they say, is defeated by giving help to the criminal rather than give him what he actually deserves.
yoshobbit 5 months ago
@SamiZaatari You make some really good points.
PeaceInChristAlone 5 months ago
have no sympathy for criminals.
ragenFOX 5 months ago
If prisoners receive food and shelter, so should the rest of the population!
IMO, the gov should be a role model to everyone and at the same time protect its citizens and punish criminals. By murdering/torturing itself, it is not a role model.
Also we as a society need a set of goals. What do we want to achieve? Do we want less crimes, or just the satisfaction of revenge (which in the end does no one any good)?
LJonathan 5 months ago
The prison system works (in theory, at least) to reduce the amount of crime that happens in 'free' society, not to punish the people who take rights from others. Of course, abuse always occurs between prisoners, but there's not much that can be done about that. I don't think they should be given computers, TV's, etc (which they often are), but basic things should be given.
Also, I like how you specifically said 'little children' specifically rather than just 'people'; appealing to emotion much?
Gunderson002 5 months ago
@Gunderson002 yes i mentioned children because IT'S HAPPENING TO KIDS, i like to get specific to illustrate it for people to know, because your camp often try to play down the crime and speak more about the rights of the criminal.
SamiZaatari 5 months ago
@SamiZaatari
Every crime happens to at least one member of any conceivable age-rage, gender, religion, race, etc, so that point is pretty much a complete non-sequitur.
Crimes against anyone of any age take away just as many rights as it does for others. It might have more psychological consequences, but objectively it takes away no more rights. It's a tragedy when it happens to anyone.
And I like how you only addressed the most trivial point in my comment and ignored everything else. :)
Gunderson002 5 months ago
@SamiZaatari
You make a case for the death penalty because people kill children then fools chime in and say " we need Shariah" and the next thing you now they are hanging gays, apostates, blasphemers and adulterers in public.
Islam also says that a muslim should not receive the death penalty for killing a disbeliever. (Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 3, Number 111)
I oppose the death penalty because it can be abused by governments and innocent people can be killed.
Megiddon 5 months ago
@Megiddon The U.S legal system is abused all the time. Sometimes its a death penalty wrongly inflicted on a man sometimes not, but how often are people's live's and families ruined? How many people are forced to do awful things in jail? How often are people killed from in-prison gang violence when their reason for being there was minor or haven been the poor guy who got wrongly convicted for a crime?
Ibrahim1109 5 months ago
@Ibrahim1109
I don't think the death penalty is used to silence political opposition in the U.S unlike other countries, maybe Iran.
The issue here isn't really about the use of custodial sentences, but at least those who are imprisoned wrongly have the opportunity to challenge that sentence.
Megiddon 5 months ago
@Megiddon In Islamic court the people are heard before something is ordered. Meaning if someone is accused he is heard he isn't just sentenced because someone said he did this or that. Therefore they can challenge the accusation. If clear evidence is brought why should he be allowed to challenge the truth?? In the U.S a judge or biased jury can easily keep sending a person to jail no matter how many times he says hes innocent. And that's precisely the abuse I am talking about!
Ibrahim1109 5 months ago
@Ibrahim1109
"If clear evidence is brought why should he be allowed to challenge the truth??"
Because people are fallible, evidence can be misinterpreted and witnesses are notoriously unreliable.
The perfect Islamic courts you envision only exist in fantasy.
Megiddon 5 months ago
@Megiddon
You obviously don't understand how witnesses work in Islam.
DawahFilms 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DawahFilms
"You obviously don't understand how witnesses work in Islam."
I'm intrigued, enlighten me.
Megiddon 5 months ago
@Megiddon Yes and the defendant may also be unreliable, such as when he pleads not guilty then pleads guilty after striking a deal with them. Not to mention their attorneys may know clearly that their client is guilty, yet they help him/her avoid jail time and avoid the punishment they deserve. Certain Cases are checked by higher courts before a sentecing is carried out. So the likelihood of a misinterpretation is low. We shouldn't prolong the sentence just because one claims his innocence.
Ibrahim1109 5 months ago
@Megiddon Not to mention there are plenty of corrupt police officers who will arrest innocent men and give false testimony and the defendant depending on his race and social status may not even be heard.
It's no secret people did that last century and they still do it today.
Whether or not it's the death penalty or not it still ruins lives and families.
Ibrahim1109 5 months ago
Comment removed
Megiddon 5 months ago
@Megiddon
Opposing the death penalty because of its possible abuse?
You may as well argue for anarchy then since any form of punishment can be abused. It's fallacious reasoning to abolish a punishment because of its potential abuse.
DawahFilms 5 months ago
@DawahFilms because of its inevitable and well-documented abuse, and the fact that this abuse is completely irreversible, which sets it apart from any other punishment in the Western judicial system.
Long term imprisonment is the best balance we have between, as you say, anarchy, and killing innocent people. It takes criminals off the street and it allows for exoneration if that should be the case.
a7neu 5 months ago
@a7neu
Its still irrational because the majority of people convicted fit the crime. If you want to have less mistakes you fix the way the law is applied, you don't get rid of the punishment. This is a non-sequitur.
And once again, I question whether life imprisonment (psychological torture) is somehow "better".
DawahFilms 5 months ago
@DawahFilms I really don't think it is irrational or a non sequitur. I don't want less mistakes, I want 0 mistakes, where those mistakes cannot be reversed and, as Megiddon points out, compensated for. Mistakes are currently unavoidable so I don't think an irreversible punishment should be implemented.
Life imprisonment is only better because it can be reversed. If they'd rather be dead they can arrange that for themselves.
a7neu 5 months ago