coloratura Adelina Patti -1895 cylinder- her 1st record?

[carlolamberti1]

very interesting as an historic rare musical document

carlo lamberti

[sicakimmi03]

i very very like this.. :)

i like seriosa

[MrGer2295]

Adelina Patti(1843-1919)"Queen of the Hearts"

The most famous singer of the 19th-century.

wow Fantastic performance from an 1895 cylinder.Thank you gmmix for posting.

[ferociousgumby]

Sounds like another "great" soprano, Florence Foster Jenkins.

[owtatowttowt]

nae her?

[singingfool14]

i've sung this song! ha

[MrSkylark1]

SPONTANEITY, BRILLIANCE and PERFECT INTONATION are the hallmarks of

GREAT SINGING, not heard on the operatic stage today, indeed for a long while.

[Marlean]

Thank you for posting this. I used to have it on my old computer but I lost it when it crashed. I only wish Patti's collegue or what you want to call it, Mrs Christina Nilsson also would have recorded her voice. But she never did. =(

[chrisz78]

Sorry - this is not Patti but Lucette Korsoff: Her Edison Diamond Disc record from 1913 was played back and re-recorded on a cylinder machine, with a faked announcement added at the start. The resulting cylinder was sold (probably for a decent sum) to Mr. William Seltsam of the International Record Collectors' Club, who credulously published it as by Adelina Patti.

The only extant recordings of Patti's voice are those made by the Gramophone Company in 1905 and 1906.

[mariasarda]

Emouvant !!!!!!

[shareddrive]

I believe this was declared a fraud many years ago, and that the soprano is Lucette Korsoff. The recording itself belongs to the following decade.

[mysweetsmile23]

che bella!!!! WOW!

[65attila]

Stupefying singing. Thank you for posting.

Regards-John

[Lamfada]

Fascinating to hear such a voice out of the deeps of time! Thanks for posting

[MrJustin2782]

OMG I agree totally!

[sevoflurane]

thanks for this clip!

[VITASart]

I visited Adelina Patti's Craig-y-Nos Castle yesterday and had a look round. I stood on the stage she built and saw behind the scenes where a number of original backdrops still are etc. Wonderful place full of magnificent portraits of this lady. Lovely voice & a benevolent presence in Wales. Awesome.

[AmericanEvita]

Patti is a legend...she was a big superstar in her day back in the late 19th century...I've read about singers of this period but their voices sound similar to me and they also dont sound beautiful..what we are hearing are scratchy, worn cylinders and primitive recording technology that doesnt capture even half the amazing talent these ladies have...

[gmmix]

What you say about the primitive sound cannot be denied but, as a long-gone friend once observed: "Stale beer is better than no beer at all."

[MadonnaImperia]

@gmmix Especially if that beer is your only chance to taste the finest beer in the world from a brewery that has long ceased to make beer.

[MadonnaImperia]

@AmericanEvita That is to some extent true. But what we can hear on some of Patti's recordings are her considerable musicality and we can learn something about 19th century operatic phrasing in general. That alone makes those early recordings valuable testimonials IMO.

[mariasarda]

Extraordinaire d'entendre ça aujourd'hui !!!

[captainpegs07]

Ace

[SerbianSoprano]

What a unique voice!!! Nothing like we hear today...

[Aetion]

No matter whether it is Patti or not, I do thank

gmmix for his effort and especially the valuable information. Very interesting indeed.

[alechorseman]

Am not know this PATTI or KORSOFF voice. But I'm know few cylinder records made others great singers. Impression very similar with disc. Each singer and each technique is differer. I'm saw a Leonid SOBINOV private cylinder (The Quitet garden fell asleep - Russian Gipsy romance) made ca.1899-1900. Singing style similar with he early G.&T.

[stuartliff]

Alas, This is not Adelina Patti. It was identified many years back as a recording of Lucette Korsoff who had an extensive career in France. A cylinder of 'Una voce poco fa' by Patti was in an exhibition case at EMI's headquarters in London but during a move, the case was dropped and both it and cylinder totally smashed. It had been hoped to use it in 'The Record of Singing' Vol 1, which came out in the 1970s. Information from Bryan Crimp who was EMI's transfer engineer at the time.

Vivian Liff

[meltzerboy]

I had never heard about that cylinder. What a shame! It would have been wonderful to hear a somewhat younger Patti singing the "Una voce poco fa" and compare it with the great recordings of the aria by Galli-Curci and Tetrazzini.

[ciroalb3]

She demanded so much for recordings in 1906 when she was 63, that it's hard to imagine what she might have demanded earlier when she had more voice.

[wattever333]

probably less because if she was still in good voice, she would have still been performing on stage. And in 1895, people didn't really see the use of recording.

[victrolaman]

I can here the intro at the beginning with the man's voice saying that it is Adelina Patti. Is this a fraud.

[eclecticdufus]

@stuartliff It's a wonder nobody ever thought to transfer it as Seltsam had done with the Maplesons in the 30s. Korsoff is delightful, however.

[BSNFabricating]

I don't claim to be an expert on anything opera, but I read that she performed for the Lincolns at the White House in 1862...WOW!!

(At least I find it fascinating...)

[meltzerboy]

This is not so surprising. Patti performed for kings, queens, and emperors. She sang at Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle for Queen Victoria as well as in St. Petersburg for Czar Nicholas.

[CurzonRoad]

IMHO... as it doesn't sound at all like Patti's issued discs, so hard to believe the folks at IRCC could have thought this was Adelina. All the same, it was issued by IRCC as Adelina Patti, and determined only later to be Korsoff on an Edison cylinder, no? A comic prank now a part of history. Wasn't there a similar story about Jean De Reszke singing 'O, sole mio' on Fonotipia that turned out to be Lucien Muratore? Fun & games. Cheers, etc. CurzonRoad --

[Heraopera]

BRAVA PATTI!

[AulicExclusiva]

It's probably Korsoff.

There is no way the 52-year-old Patti would have attempted the final high D, for one thing.

Patti did make Bettini cylinders (so did jean de Reszke) but they have never come to light.

[primohomme]

Joan Sutherland was singing high D's up until the time she retired...why couldn't Patti have done the same?

[AulicExclusiva]

Each singer and each technique is different. Patti had a very Italian technique. She did not "float" her high notes in the German style, she sang them in the fully resonated, "squillante" Italianate way. Like Ponselle and Tebaldi after her, she began having trouble with high notes about age 40. Bernard Shaw said, "time has transposed Patti down a minor third". By the time Patti made commercial recordings at age 62, she could hardly sing above high A—just like Ponselle and Tebaldi after age 50

[primohomme]

In the German style? if she was a master of bel canto as history tells us, I wouldn't doubt she was able to float high notes. She didn't sing Verismo, did she?

[AulicExclusiva]

If you are so sure she was able to float high notes, perhaps you can name another Italian soprano who does?

[primohomme]

First of all, Adelina wasn't Italian, she was SPANIARD. And how about Renata Scotto or Mariella Devia? Also Rosa Ponselle and Renata Tebaldi had VERY different voices than Patti. Patti was a high liric soprano, she had a high F! Tebaldi was a spinto and her top was high Db. Italian sopranos in general do not do high high coloratura, at least not compared to French sopranos.

[AulicExclusiva]

Adelina Patti was born in Madrid because her parents, touring opera singers, happened to be there. Both were Italian and Patti was 100% Italian: her father, Ezio Patti, was Sicilian. Her mother, Catherina Barilli, was from the Marche.

[AulicExclusiva]

Italian sopranos do not do HochKoloratur because the Italian technique, "on-the-mask", does not lend itself to artificial notes above the staff. Mariella Devìa has an exceptional upper extension, like Tetrazzini, but she sings full-voice, even when singing softly: her technique is 100% Italian, like Dal Monte or Noni . As for Scotto, it was her inability to sing high notes after age 40 that caused her to switch to spinto roles.

[AulicExclusiva]

Patti sang Norma and Aïda, both very successfully. She had a high F when she was a girl, like Guglielmetti or Scotto. This was not a floated germanic croon like Ivogün's, but a full-voice one. She did not keep it long!

[primohomme]

I have an old new york times article in which it talks about Adelina Patti, Nellie Melba and Tetrazzini and their high notes. Adelina Patti is mentioned as having a high F, even in her mid 30's. She sang Norma, and she also sang quite a bit of La Sonnambula and! in fact, it is said the score of La Sonnambula was corrupted for her (by adding the numerous high Eb's that Bellini did not write but that now appear in the Riccordi edition).

[AulicExclusiva]

Patti made her début at age 16 and had her great Covent Garden success in 1861 at age 18! She liked high notes then!

When she created Juliette at the opéra in 1888 (age 45) though, Gounod had to transpose the waltz down one whole step because, unlike Marie Miolan-Carvalho, la créatrice, Patti couldn't sing it in the original key. These are historical facts.

[64sembra]

Patti wasn't Italian but SPANIARD (because she was born in Spain)? Then you must be ready to say that King Juan Carlos of Spain isn't Spaniard but ITALIAN (he happened to be born in Italy while his family was in exile there). Frankly, who really cares if Callas or Tucker or Ruffo were born in the US or in Senegal or in the Bahamas. Just let's be glad we had them and let's be unhappy because there are no recordings of Pasta, Rubini, Grisi, Gayarre, Jenny Lind, Emperor Nero, etc.

[Esceha57]

Please, I want to learn in my old days:

How do you know it a recording in 1895. I read the recordings of Adelina Patti are from about 1905 and later. For opera recordings I thought Caruso was the first in 1902. Befor that time only recordings of instrumental music and popular songs.

So please tell me.

(Granddaddy) Cor

Netherlands

[jozefsterkens]

Er zijn honderden vocale cylinders gemaakt voor 1900, velen zonder naam van de zanger maar ook beroemdheden van de 19de eeuw. De franse Lioret cylinders zijn verbazend van kwaliteit. Ik zal er een opladen. Zangers zongen dikwijls zonder begeleiding, zelfs geen piano.

[Robbiesmile]

This is almost definitely made from a Bettini cylinder. I feel certain the voice introducing this recording is Lieutenant Gianni Bettini's.

[stan724]

In the notes about Patti accompanying this recording, it is stated that Patti first sang at Covent Garden in 1845. Something of a miracle for a two-year-old. Actually, she debuted there in 1860, having made her operatic debut at 16 as Lucia at the Academy of Music in New York in 1859.

[otterhouse]

Whoever this is, it's an interesting recording...

-----------------------------

Rolf, Netherlands.

I am a collector of classical 78's and lp's

Click "otterhouse" above to see (and hear!)

some of my collection.

[criticiszero]

No, it is not Patti... it is Lucette KORSOFF, I am quite sure of htat...

[stan724]

This is not Patti, as anyone who has heard all of her authentic recordings knows. I've heard of this recording before and it has been thoroughly debunked as being by Patti. Patti never screamed like this.

[partenongriego]

Adelina Patti, who once exclaimed, "and is sung in Italy" which was refuted by "The Mexican Ruiseñor" Angela Peralta, it is a pity that Peralta has not recording without any doubt that he sang better than Adelina, the answer "So is sung in the glory" and be visited by the son of the composer Lucia de Lammermoor, Donizetti.

[vernokenn]

I am astounded. Patti was prominently mentioned in Koesting's bio of Callas, and now what I hear is Florence Foster Jenkins. Singing has come a LONG way.

[fuzzbear6240]

G.., A fascinating artifact. If I live to be 100 I will never cease to be amazed by listening to these voices from our past. Thank you. YF, J.

[MoonLaugh]

"a great opera-enthusiast", not a grear one!*ggg*

[MoonLaugh]

given by an excellent artists. Gmmix surely is a grear opera-enthusiast. Thank you very much for it!

[MoonLaugh]

soonly can listen to a authentic Patti-Cylinder. MAYBE! I am putting it in careful words, for the authencity, of course, has still to be proved after the cylinder is transferred. But the whole affair is a very exciting one. Finally, I want to thank one time more to gmmix: Even if the cylinder, which is put here, is (probably) not a Patti-cylinder, the cylinder in itself, in all its ambivalence, remains very fascinating. And after all: The rendition we do hear here is a very good one, (follows:)

[MoonLaugh]

(next:) At the University of Syracuse there exists an old cylinder with the inscription "Adelina Patti". The recording was probably made between 1892-98. The problem is: No man up to this day has ever heard it play, for it is very fragile. For a longtime one avoided it playing at all, but now one is going to develop a special technology: With the help of laser-technique the cylinder shall be "read" without harming the original. The project seems to be in the final phase; maybe we (follows:)

[MoonLaugh]

was recorded 1904 or so. The original Korsoff-cylinder has one minute more length than the one here in "You-tube"; I think, there is one verse lacking. If one listens to the Pseudo-Patti-Cylinder, the beginning of it is surprisingly abrupt, without any orchestra prelude. No, I don´t think it is Patti who is singing here. BUT AFTER ALL THOSE PRO AND CONTRAS, HERE ARE VERY GOOD NEWS: MAYBE THERE IS INDEED AN ORIGINAL PATTI-CYLINDER FROM THE MIDNINETIES OF THE 19th-CENTURY IN EXISTENCE! (follows:)

[MoonLaugh]

(follows:) from Verdis "Falstaff", recorded 1905. I made a research about the Patti-Cylinder and found very convincing explanations. The singer on the pseudo-Patti Cylinder really seems to be Lucette Korsoff. By the way: The recordings of Korsoff are available at the german Truesound lable, and one could every time make a comparison. Even the Laugh-song is listed on that CD. To me the recording here on the pseudo-Patti-cylinder is the abbreviated Lucette-Korsoff-Cylinder which (follows)

[MoonLaugh]

(follows)...in those era (before 1900)there do exist no recordings which combines singing voice with orchestra - the technique hadn´t approved so far. I think that the recording here was made between 1900-10. Even the applause and the murmurs you mention don´t give credit to a genuine spontaneous event. There are many recordings (1900-10)on which you hear a (paid!) audience who tries to suggest an spontaneous applause, f.e. Victor Maurels "Quand ero paggio" from Verdis (next)

[MoonLaugh]

Dear music-enthusiasts, many greetings to you! Dear Gmmix, greetings to you especially!I really was fascinated to hear this recording, but, hélas, I don´t think this is a recording by the Grand Lady. It simply can´t be... for one special reason: There is an orchestra which is playing, not a piano! Even if one imagines that Patti recorded this piece on a "spontaneous" occasion... the presence of an orchestra isn´t a spontaneous occasion at all but a well-planned one. As far as I know (next:)

[gmmix]

BIG SMILE HERE....You are indeed correct about

Korsoff being the soprano. Operatic recordings a decade later were still being made with piano accompaniment. By 1909, however, the Korsoff Paris discs WERE orchestrally accompanied. Early on, it seems to me her Victor releases were on the black label, but in time she was elevated to the purple and blue label. But there weren't many. Well done, MoonLaugh.

[ellandelachapelle]

Wow! What a soprano! Some of the notes are SENSATIONAL (for example the final note.) (top d or e flat.)I hope someone one day finds out the truth! I wonder why these old singers often sound like their voces are about to burst the whole technical aparatus? (like "when will it EXPLODE??") They had bigger voices in those days??

[meltzerboy]

I own a similar fake, allegedly a performance of "Home, Sweet Home" by Jenny Lind, with a spoken introduction, recorded in 1882! Talk about rarities....

[meltzerboy]

I remember reading about this mysterious cylinder, and that it is NOT Patti, but rather Lucette Korsoff. It does not sound like Patti in tone or technique. Even Sembrich's rare Bettini cylinder (around the same year) sounds like her.

[jozefsterkens]

SUZANNE ADAMS

[meltzerboy]

I think you are referring to Melba's Mapleson cylinder of Queen Marguerite's aria from "Les Huguenots," recorded at the Met in 1901, which some have suggested is really the singing of Suzanne Adams. To me it sounds like Melba, even including her charming mannerisms, as well as her bravura singing. The Patti cylinder, however, is definitely not Patti, but rather Lucette Korsoff.

[DiannePatti]

Many thanks for this piece of music history. As in the discussion of whether it was Paul who wrote the book of Hebrews, we may apply a similar method of inquiry here: If this weren't Adelina singing, who else could it be?

[lochness11]

Methinks Madam Patti this is a case for Sherlock Holmes.

[DiannePatti]

Actually, we do have this technology. By comparing voice print from this recording to that of the 1905's, we may see whether there is a match, or not! Perhaps MaxTheCrystalSkull would be inclined to give this a go. I'll ask.

[jozefsterkens]

SUZANNE ADAMS

[lochness11]

One can only wonder. At her 1905 recordings she was afraid,and unsure of this new technology.

Would this have been the case if she had already recorded in 1895?

I daresay there's a computer out there which would answer our doubts in a couple of seconds!

[SENAFOREVER]

Yet I remember an article saying tHis was a false. For instance a friend once saw a Battistini cylinder which was actually just a recording of 1911 78 on cylinder. To me this voice is much lighter than Patti, who really was a rather LYRIC coloratura, with very warm medium,as demonstrated in her Sonnambula 78,for instance. I don't think it is Patti but thanks for sharing. And anyway it is a very good singer.

[gmmix]

Thanks for your comments. I, too, recall an article calling into question the cylinder's authenticity but thought this performance should be posted anyway. Reading all the old accounts of Patti's astonishing coloratura and then hearing her 1905 discs suggests that an apparent diminution of her vocal powers had taken place by the time she stepped before the G&T recording horn. A decade makes a huge difference in a singer's art, esp. between ages 52 and 62. (to be continued....)

[gmmix]

That there is a photo of Patti sitting on a chair beside a cylinder machine gives one cause for contemplation. Seems difficult to believe she was that close to a talking machine and wouldn't be tempted to give it a try. About 6 seconds after her last note one hears applause and murmurs of approval and appreciation. Guess I shouldn't have cut that part from my video.

[jozefsterkens]

SUZANNE ADAMS

[rupepill]

Patti's recording of La Calasera is another lively performance. I keep waiting for her to cut loose with a "Whoopee!" In fact it was that Patti record that leapt to mind, when I first enjoyed your video of Madame Schumann-Heink; the one where she emitted yodels and "Yahoos!" multidirectionally, a feat only made possible on a monophonic recording by Madame's unique and overwhelmingly mountainous presence. Her steel belted radial corset apparently functioned also as an efficient repeater station.

[gmmix]

BROAD SMILE HERE as mental picture of your last sentence is contemplated.

[rupepill]

Although this is not high fidelity recording the voice nevertheless is clearly heard. The singer's lively personality also is very evident. Considering the age of the original recording and that it then had been dubbed onto acetate the sound is remarkably good.

[gmmix]

Somewhere in my house there's a scrapbook with a photo of Patti sitting beside a cylinder machine, possibly taken at the time the recording was made. It seems to me the cylinder was uncovered by descendants of Patti's brother--or some other close relative. The voice here has more sparkle than her discs cut a decade later.