UW Micronesian Islands Club - Chamorro Cultural Dancing

[pinili]

nice video. whats the title of the song?

[psaluda]

'si yu'us ma'ase': Si Dios me hace. In the deepest of Chamorro identity... there lies their unique Hispanic heritage.

[gadao01]

Remember, even though you can try to force a cognate, it doesn't actually have to be true. "Si Yu'us Ma'ase'." literally translates to "God have mercy." or more poetically, "May God be merciful (to you)." It is a sign of gratefulness for an action done. Just because there is a Spanish phrase that sounds remotely similar does not mean they came from the same root (false cognates). Considering the rest of the language, Spanish is either taken wholly or not taken at all.

[psaluda]

Thank you, gada01. Perhaps you would like to share with us 'ma'ase', since you suggest I am forcing a cognate. The Hispanic identity of chamorros, however, is irrelevant from Linguistics, Academics and fancy re-romanizations, of which the filipinos are victim as well. Si Yu'us ma'ase doesn't have to be spelled that way, but in any way it is spelled, it is still the vivid sign of the Hispanic identity of chamorros.

[gadao01]

I disagree, there are many phrases in Chamorro that come either directly from Spanish or have a great influence, e.g. "maseha" or "...di..." However, "Si Yu'us Ma'ase'" has no Spanish roots. If you consider the changes in general from Spanish words to Chamorro, you'd see that the changes that would be required to change "Si, Dios me hace" to "Si Yu'us Ma'ase'" are nonexistent in Chamorro. Btw, this is a pointless discussion... ;-)

[psaluda]

gada01... How you spell anything ('romanization') in Chamorro today, is irrelevant. It was the SIL which built the spelling of ALL Pacific languages today, a Protestant Emporium of Gringoland. Had SIL had Latin America for themselves, you would see 'Me'hiko, Nikarawa, Espanya' etc. If you could read documents of the FOUNDATION of Marianas, in Castilian, you would see the previous spelling a-la-Castellano. Guajan, instead of Guam, etc etc. Dios is yu'us, no need in denying that.

[gadao01]

Ai adai... you're not understanding what I'm trying to say. Yes, we use the a version of the roman alphabet in Chamorro. Also, there are many phrases we borrow from Spanish. Indeed, when we borrow word/phrases we change them to fit the Chamorro sound system, however, I do not believe this is the case in the phrase "si Yu'us Ma'ase'" Your claim is that it is inherited from t"Si Dios me hace." There is no substantiation to such a claim...

[gadao01]

con't... Try to break apart the phrase "Si Dios me hace." If "si" is "if," then the conjugations would be wrong for "hacer." It should be "Si Dios me haceria" and would be translated roughly to "If God would do... for me."

If "si" is "yes," then it should be punctuated as such "Si, Dios me hace" which translates "Yes, God does... for me" or "Yes, God makes... (for) me."

Point is, there is not a strong correlation between either translation and "Si Yu'us Ma'ase'"

[psaluda]

Dear gada01: My mother tongue is Castilian, I am Venezuelan. Trust me. 'Si Dios me hace' is common phrase literally meaning 'if God makes me', but by relation it means 'God willing, if God let me, if God wants'. Once again, the whole Pacific has been impacted by the SIL and its Linguistics, but it's irrelevant, the languages survive any spellings. Before SIL, languages were romanized in Castilian alphabet, and that was for 333 years. Being re-romanized by Anglosaxon SIL for 100 years is nothing.

[kuraku3]

@gadao01 sure there is a correlation. do you speak spanish? im chamorro. and i can speak spanish. "Si Dios me hace" makes perfect sense. spanish should be taught concurrently with Chamorro. additionally, latino culture and history should be taught as well. what we always seem to refer to as our ISLANDER way, is actually the LATINO way. But the USA has succeeded in making us forget and resent our HISPANIC heritage. It was part of their plan.

[gadao01]

Ma'ase' is a form of the word "ase'" which means mercy. This can also be expanded to "asi'i" which means to have mercy on someone or to forgive/pardon. "Ma'ase'" is a very "chamorro" word, there is no evidence that it comes from "me hace."

Once again, this is a pointless conversation, but if you have questions about Chamorro itself, I'll be happy to answer as best I can.

[L00KER68]

the Yu'us part is still from spanish. Chamorro culture and language of today is a result of both our native and hispanic heritage. there is no evidence that suggests it does not come from "si dios me hace". makes total sense to me. if this is a common phrase in venezula (in castilian), it is too coincidental for it not to be related. when we say "umbre" we are saying "hombre". visit a latino country and you will see how much of our celebrated chamorro culture is spanish. BIBA GUAM! hmm? VIVA?

[sidu6]

looks like those two in the bak was forced to join the dance..dats some made up shit...heres to the 2%...yes!!!!!!!!

[Taipati671]

My my, please contact me if you know more then what you posted cause I knew all that since I started researching at age 13.

By the way we have 4 different counting systems for example. Hacha Hugua Tulo' Fatfat, Maisa Hugua Tato Fatfat, Takhachon Takhuguan Taktulon, Hachiyai, Hugiya, To'giyai, what I do is chant in one of the most awesome and outstanding group that backs up all the information with scientific data, research, as well as professors and historians that have guided the group.

[gadao01]

Taipati, I don't understand your hostility towards people trying to spread knowledge of our culture.

Buente ha', i yi'us pa'pa' odda' as Chaifi sen malamana na yu'us. Lao guiya ha ma'gasi i manglo', i napu, yan i guafen i botkanu. I kantan-niha ti na'mamahlao. Sina ma na'la'maolek ha', lao ti na'mamahlao...

[aniten05]

Although the Spanish culture is a resemblance of who we are, remember those traditions were imposed upon us! We never did ask them to come, invade our island, and kill our people. For someone who is a graduate of such a prestigious school as UH and has taught at the many places you have listed, I would've expected more tactful words, spelling corrections and proper grammatical usage, but mostly correct information of Chamorro History!

[psaluda]

Before the kastilas came to invade your lands, ask yourself if it was 'your land'. Before it was the land of your ancestors, they in turn invaded and took from others. When Spaniards come and bloc The Marianas from further 'invading', your ancestors could stay in peace. The basic problem of hispanophobia worldwide is to 'romanticize' preHispanic periods or 'post USA' periods. This is very blind, and forgive me for my honesty.

[Magahit]

Before the Chamorros came to the Marianas, there weren't any people living in the islands at the time. So like their Austronesian brothers and sisters throughout the Pacific, they laid claim to the islands and called it theirs. It's true that many people romanticize our hispanic history, but it's hard not to do so when you've had associations with a rather "romantic" group. Sorry, had to say it. Anyway, I choose neither to romanticize nor to ignore our hispanic history. Focus on the future!

[L00KER68]

but many of the new dancers are paving a false road to the chamorro identity. they are renouncing or demonizing any hispanic heritage that we have. how can we focus on the future if we ignore and disregard our past. many are doing that these days. i embrace my native heritage. it connects me with other islanders. i embrace my hispanic heritage because it connects me with other hispanics. i am fortunate to be able to do so i think. it makes me , and my culture interesting to other people. BIBA!

[psaluda]

Dear magahit, I would like to focus on your line "laying claim to the lands they discover". It makes us look at history from the point that everybody coming to a land and taking it, with the power to do it, can "claim it". The earth does not belong to one breed or ethnicity, neither does the ocean. The Old Testament is not full of stories of benevolent assimilating visitors who came and were invited to stay and claim the land.

[aniten05]

cont.

The Chacha is derived from the Spanish colonization. It was incorporated into our culture. Yes it is a part of our culture but that isn't the main point. The pre-contact era as depicted in the chant "Chaife" is a creation stemmed by countless reasearch. Many chants contain ancient Chamorro words not used by society today, such as "Hacha, Hugua, Tulu, Fatfat" and so forth. Nevertheless, you didn't know that did you?! Did you think we came up with "Uno, Dos, Tres?"

[psaluda]

The serious problem is that this attitude is institutional, same thing in the Philippines. What you guys are doing is avoiding anything Hispanic under the false premise "imposed on us". Oh, and chacha was imported by your new masters USA, DUH, chacha was invented IN THE USA 70 years after Spain was gone... Last number is a very very sad thing to see as 'cultural heritage', there is nothing ethnic from song to steps to attire.

[L00KER68]

many chamorros have been robbed of their history and identity because of the USA. although i am a USA citizenship, i dont like to call myself "American". i used to be lost in identity... am i an islander? am i a hispanic?... now I know that I am both. I am a islander hispanic. Chamorros are the forgotten hispanics of Oceania. i am glad you have rediscovered us. we have much to share and much to learn from people like you. we have a unique hispanic culture different from the other countries.

[aniten05]

cont.

In response to "uhwarrior06"It is single-minded people like you that leave our culture to die. Educate yourself before you proceed to list the percentage facts of Guam's culture. With the "Dinana Minagof" celebrations every year it has caused our young people of Guam to become more aware, knowledgeable and spirited in keeping our "Ina'fanmaolek" traditions alive! In addition, if you think the traditional dances only revolve around the song "Hafa Adai," then you are seriously misguided!

[psaluda]

The phrase "educate yourself" is a doble-edge sword, remember your blooper right above "chacha imposed by Spanish colonization"... Promote the Hispanic dances, please, the batsus and polkas are more colorful and make Guam unique among 'the rest' if you know what I mean... AND Chamorros feel them as their own, it's their right!

[gadao01]

I can agree with you here... Regardless where ever the dance comes from, Chamorros have embraced it and made it their own, which is how cultures are perpetuated.

In reality, we have lost a lot of the traditional dances, because of many reasons, but through the efforts of certain groups, we are starting to reclaim a lost part of our heritage.

[psaluda]

Definitely. The Marianas/Guam need a big injection of promoting their chamorro folklore, beautiful and unique. I insist it becomes even more unique when placed in context, meaning compared with the rest of IberoAmérica. Latinos would be amazed... There is that to explore, and more pride to chamorros.

[psaluda]

Definitely. The Marianas/Guam need a big injection of promoting their chamorro folklore, beautiful and unique. I insist it becomes even more unique when placed in context, meaning compared with the rest of IberoAmérica. Latinos would be amazed... There is that to explore, and more pride to chamorros.

[L00KER68]

psaluda is obviously our colonial brother (from venezuela). even venezuela had native peoples too. i think he has very good points. Chamorros would have less identity problem if they recognized their Hispanic heritage as such.. Hispanic! I am proud to be connected to so many in this world because of the Hispanic part of my Chamorro heritage. makes mores sense to continue to be influenced by hispanic culture than hawaiian. so many of our dances today borrow from hawaiian. its not Chamorro.

[aniten05]

First off, I COMMEND the performers for doing their best in the efforts to preserve the Chamorro culture. In response to "Taipati671," The chant "Chaife" came from a very well respected dance group in Guam. Frank Rabon, who is the "Master of Chamorro Dance" is the founder and choreographer of "Taotao Tano." Ever heard of it? Probably not, because, your comment on the chant "Chaife" and what it represents is very much "misguided" as you would say.

[Taipati671]

Yes I know who he is! I know more than you probably think. I'm on the island and I practice the our language and reconstruction of our culture everyday since my return. Please look at the videos in my list and you can message me further in regards to your "question" of the knowledge I know.

[Taipati671]

I've never seen something so ridiculous in my life. Your portrayal of our culture is so wrong and I'm so ashamed that you learned something so kindergarten.

You are misguided I really hope you can come back and island and learn before "performing" something that isn't even real. Chaife is a dead and evil spirit it has nothing to do with the sea. I'm so embarrassed that you guys showcased this as a dance of our island???