I live in Texas. If you asked whites here if they were interested in segregation, you would end up with a slightly dumbed down white population of yes votes. Good point!
@DogmasDemise - You're AWESOME for coming up with that little mantra at the end of your post to counter that stupid mantra "race realists" and white nationalists use. "Racial realist is code word for REAL RACIST." I like that! People who take on these idiots need to start repeating that back at them every time they deploy that "Anti-racist is code for anti-white" nonsense.
Well if you genuenly want to know, then look at the apollo missions and nasa back in the 60s they were all white male many of them like rocket scientist Von Braun were nazis, brought over from germany after the war. So yes, an all white male nazi team put Neil Armstrong on the moon. In the early 00s Nasa announced that they had to become more diverse and started affirmative action to hire more women and minorities : D and that was the end of americas space program. Now it's the end of america.
Question in video "wouldnt it be better to have people segregate off what they have proven they can do"
answer- short term yes, but this ignores the studies done in sweden on children naturally segregating themselves by race. Article on Science daily web, various others
Long term no, regression towards the mean in genetics applies, 2 exceptional parents will more than likely produce a child that is closer to the mean racial group scores, crime rates, ect. articles, again on science daily
1. Extraordinary claim. Evidence to contrary needed. What other qualities are the majority of outspoken, self-admitted racists looking to segregate based off of?
2. You have quotation marks around #1, but not #2. Are you suggesting that I premised this video on the idea that racists are incapable of accepting that Neil deGrasse Tyson is a smart individual?
"amount of time you use"
Over-qualifying limits the amount of straw I typically have to eat, based on 2.5 years of vloggy experience
I removed one of my comments because it was a little derpy, i did forget i watched the video again, and this had nothing to do with Ruka, i was just thinking of the nationalism debate that did explode after her video, but that does not make every video a vid response to hers, so again very good video on this subject.
This reminds me of an argument with a truther who failed to grasp a basic point I was repeatedly making & as a result went around telling others that I must be intellectually dishonest for continuing to argue. You're not psychic, and pretending to be in order to paint your opponent as dishonest behind their back is a deplorable tactic, you disingenuous prick.
I'll indulge you anyway though: antibullshitman(dot)blogspot(dot)com/
"in the confident expectation that there was no possible answer"
Right, because prior to making this video I was under the stern delusion that I have omniscient knowledge of the law structure of every single civilized spot of land worldwide, & it was your Japan comment that gave me the epiphany that I actually don't. Despite Japan not even meeting the lawful qualifications at hand.
Your inability to comprehend how policies are inherently tied to segregation, which is defined as "the enforced separation of different racial groups in a country, community, or establishment" says nothing of my debating style, but rather your glaring thickness.
"You debate like a desperate sophist. Are you running for office?"
Go fuck yourself with that rotten character assassination attempt you smarmy little cuntstain. How's that for slick political rhetoric?
"There is no mentioning of policies anywhere in the video"
It couldn't be more clear that this video directly targets policies. You're either deaf, or dumb enough to think the segregation application forms I constructed would not be a compulsory qualifier for who is permitted entrance. On that note, what % of the Japanese lose sleep over the *fact* that no such forms exist as mandate to enter their land? For the 3rd time: Segregation is MORE than mere superior compatibility with one's own race.
"In the video you ask for an example of a successful, monoracial, segregationist"
What I said is I'd like to see it in the modern age. That's not a question. As I already explained, Japan doesn't qualify as it doesn't practice *segregationist policies*. Before giving me another knee-jerk reaction, read carefully: When I spoke of 40-50 year olds I've encountered who were glad to see segregation end, they weren't talking about culture. It was about policy. Such is the basis for the entire video.
It was a question, just because you didn't say "wouldn't it be interesting to see..." and said "I'd like to see ..." doesn't mean that you weren't asking a question about a segregated society that exists today.
How many Japanese people have you met in your life? Some of the biggest racists I know are Japanese. This doesn't mean that the majority of them are racist, but there IS a STRONG element of racism there which seems to get a complete pass from you, unlike white racism.
Sorry bud, it wasn't a question. Re-watch that part of the video. If you maintain it's a question, then you're unable to differentiate between questions and mere remarks regarding how some societies, which were once upon a time structured differently through discriminatory law, don't exist anymore in that same incarnation, but I'd be curious to see how they'd do in the digital age of where the effects of alternative media are often inescapable for anyone not kept in a cage 24/7/52. Dolt.
Maybe you should also add that it's clearly not a question cuz you didn't inject animated question marks in the video complete with reflective music, while making these "mere remarks". LMAO
BSman's thought process: The Japanese are in a completely different category because they don't make YT videos calling for Segregation like the white nationalists whose vids I watched. lol
Plus if you bother searching for it, you will find Japanese people making videos endorsing Segregation.
Do yourself a favor: Look up every written example of someone stating "I'd like to see *such & such*..." and tell me how many you find that end with the use of a question mark instead of the use of a period. Then come back here & tell me how stupid you feel. Then read this: antibullshitman(dot)blogspot(dot)com/
"BullshitMan"
The Department Of Painfully Unoriginal Insult Perpetuation thanks you.
Your thought process: Japan is filled with mostly Japanese people, therefore Japanese people must be racialists or have a high tolerance for racialist sentiments.
It doesn't follow. They don't give a flying fuck about the fact that non-Japanese walk among them.
"How many Japanese people have you met in your life"
Quite a few actually, considering where I live. None of them the least bit racist. They didn't even show any signs of holding xenophobic views prior to moving out here
Should Japan at some point in the future actually undertake active enforcement of segregationist policies, as opposed to legally permitting all races to integrate like they do now, it will then be applicable to the items discussed in this video.
I don't think people would flee from a white nationalist state. I think it'd be a lot like Japan. Just replace cultural Marxism with a loyalty to the tribe mentality and you have a recipe for cohesion.
The analogy is moot as Japanese immigration policies aren't racially driven. And while I myself have never been to Japan, I've known many who have. The treatment they received for not being Japanese (which was almost 100% innocuous) is not comparable to the treatment blacks received during times of actual segregation
"loyalty to the tribe mentality"
The cohesion you stand to gain may very well come at a bloody price. See: Almost every other society with a collective hard on for tribe mentality
@AntiBullshitMan Japan is kind to visitors but unkind to immigrants. I'm referring to their culture, not their immigration policies, which is extremely racially driven. No culture has a harder tribe boner than Japan, without being outright racist. That's because their culture still "respects" outsiders, even though it hangs "asian only" signs outside every restaurant. Cohesion is fine without superiority. Ruka is for nonaggression so it's very analogous, but idk what the others are advocating.
@Powered "I'm referring to their culture, not their immigration policies"
The basis for my prediction that most kids-turned-adults would depart from a white-only society was grounded in the fact that it'd be white-only by *legal* mandate, not just whimsy culture. This is why I said your Japan analogy is moot, as the underpinnings behind my analysis (40 year olds disgusted with the segregation they grew up in) revolved around the fact that it *was* legally enforced.
Segregation has nothing to do with making a better community - its just a bunch of scared inferrior children getting together to tell themselves their better then everyone else, in the most angry way possible - - - like church.
But it's still interesting to indulge their premise & argue from there, just to see what they'll come up with in an attempt to obfuscate the blatant incompatibility in their premise. Nothing so far.
Segregation is just code talk for hate and fear i know that is a simple answer, but sometimes the best answer is the most simple. Also the proposals you lay out for them, not one of these segregation fools would follow. As far as I Q goes, race=I Q is bull shit. I think my brother said it best when he said that it is environment, education, and family, and other factors that contribute to I Q not skin color dear god.
Well done video! I do think you underestimate the effect that rearing a child with a specific mindset can have on that person's outlook. I have seen too many videos of children holding hate signs to think that they will somehow develop an open minded outlook while being cared for and looking up to racist parents. Xenophobic societies can and do thrive even in the internet age.
And i thought a lot of the anarchist who are supporting this, and the neocons, and the liberatians who support this. even peaceful segregation would require government force weather they like to admit it or not.
If the racist excuse me nationalist are gonna set their standards they should follow through on them. Why stop at race? If men and women cannot get along well separate them right? No, hold test to make sure that they fit their criteria, and if someone is sick, or if they do not have "pure" DNA then throw them out. Why stop at race? Swing for the fences you damn fools, go the whole 9 yards. There is so many flaws about a nationalist society has. And government force would be required. Cont.
Nope. And race differences do exist, with all credible peer-reviewed data pointing to it being mostly environmentally driven, as I'm sure you've heard mentioned once or twice. This is why I typically inquire about particulars before jumping to genetic based conclusions. In any event, the differences are nebulous.
As for the 12% of blacks in US; I'm from BC, Canada's multicultural vortex, so the tiny % should raise at least a margin of an eyebrow.
An analysis of segregating races is, in the long run, moot. Non-whites hate whites, but you don't get that, do you? These debates always seem to boil down to what "whites" think about this, when in fact most non-whites are far more racist than most whites. We tire of the invalid premise that whites owe non-whites for past wrongs or that all that whites are born racists. When it comes to segregation, non-whites ALWAYS choose self-segregation over integration EVERY TIME and are PROUD of that.
@mikespulligan "Non-whites hate whites, but you don't get that"
Even if this was generally the case, the scenario posed in the video deals with non-whites who *have* concretely demonstrated having zero contempt towards anyone based on race alone. If you believe no such non-white individuals exist, I'll gladly e-introduce you to all of the ones I've gotten to know personally, as 9 out of 10 of them held no ill will against me or anyone else based on race. You have zero rationale to exclude them.
What I'm saying is that before you do anything you must adjust by looking at all applicants, which I think also requires you to include the NCAA. Then see if there are stats available countering the amount of overall dedicated practice time pre-NBA, areas with a pre-existing "basketball culture" if I may, & how those fare in terms of populations. I've never looked into these either, but it's important to do so & not just assume that it's "cuz they're genetically prone to it".
Blacks make up only around 8% of the total workforce in my firm in BC. Does this lead to the automatic conclusion that blacks are generally less genetically capable of performing the tasks required to gain employment at this particular firm, or can you see how this warrants additional variables, namely the % of white applicants rejected for the job compared to the % of black applicants rejected for the job. There's a plethora of other factors, but I'm sure you get the idea.
It's not "my society". I'm humoring the separatist premise and working my way from there.
But it's true, Yale graduates would be dissatisfied working in fast food joints. I assume segregationists would rationalize this away by asserting that they'd permit just enough unskilled workers to enter their community. Which somewhat contradicts the entire premise behind the urgent necessity to separate on account of low post-secondary education rates in blacks, in the first place.
@tuber123asd "Get to the fucking point already..."
There is more than one point. Aptly describing the layers of context behind all of the points necessitates a length of time surpassing that of a soundbite. If you comprehend the first 4 minutes as rambling, this channel is probably not for you. I don't do campaign ad spoon-feeding type videos.
@AntiBullshitMan Pardon my rude comment. There was actually quite a lot of value and salience in your video, overall. Plenty of quality thinking therein. Thanks for sharing.
@whedonfreak976 "And BTW i did like the video a lot, but i am rukad out"
Well then you didn't listen, since this video has nothing to do with any of the other ones made throughout the last few weeks. I'm just tackling segregation here. You'll be hard pressed to find these points discussed among the avalanche of Ruka responses you're referring to.
@AntiBullshitMan Yes i did listen, but even though her name was not mentioned i got who started this whole crap of videos that flooded you tube. But at least you did not sling mud like the rest, you gave out a very thoughtful and detailed response to all of this nationalist talk. So believe me, you did not say it but trust me just like you, I am all burned out on the ruka response, and you might not have said her name, but gee i wonder who go all of this segregation videos shit as of late?
Company of whites. Or whatever nationalist group fill in the blank. A lot of this is just smoke and mirrors to the fact that they have a deep seeded fear and hatred of another race that looks and acts and speaks different than they do. As far as I Q goes, i do know that race has nothing to do with I Q i think education, and family genetics, and the environment that a child is raised in has a hell of a lot more to do than the color of that child's skin, so that argument is well bull shit.
19:44 No, people cannot just say what is in the minds of other people, but when you hear some, not all, but some people throw out racial slurs, and you hear some talk about how inferior another race is to their own, then you get the idea of what is going on in those people's mind. And do you really think those segregation people would stand by their own rules that you outlined. No they would not, not all of them anyway, for a lot of them it is just about the fact that they prefer the cont.
I think what you say is intelligent, well thought out and quite brilliant. I have never watched such a great orator on YT. And I pretty much agree. Just one thing though...as quite a shallow person........get your hair cropped short....it looks like Moses has parted it. Joke. kudos.
It's not rambling. Like you said, they're just qualifiers. This wasn't the norm with my old videos, but I soon found that a carefully crafted approach saves me many a headache in the way of presumptuous comments & stretchy speculations, especially with this "it's cuz you're PC" bullshit.
@AntiBullshitMan I can see the point there. Out of interest, do you actually puport this idea as a good one, or are you just throwing it out as a wrench in some "race realists" pet theory?
It's a horrible idea, unless a margin of applicants are controlled for unskilled labor positions, which no college/uni graduate would be satisfied with. This of course begs the question of why they're unsettled with the influx of uneducated minorities to begin with, as it's proportional for the old "gods&clods" to begin with.
I pointed out towards the end that it still fails in the ethics department, despite being way more rational than just taking race into the equation.
"...and I would generally lov-" gonna finish this vid? Part 2 anytime soon?
Curious as well how a racially formed community would fare as well. As time goes on and they find their troubles do not go away. They will have to blame outsiders for their troubles or invent some sort of enemy within.
Either that or progress to a non-racial viewpoint.
I didn't add much after the battery ran out, just pointed how alternative media may have the inverse effect to the one I bolstered earlier in the vid.
I don't care about their persecution complex. I won't hold back when they indeed bend the facts. I will contest those facts because at least people can then tell them to their face that they are full of shit. If they feel persecuted, tough luck. I'm not going to cure that problem by pampering them either.
You segregation idea won't fly with that crowd because they already have counter-apologestics called "regression to the mean". It's bunk, but that's what they'll say.
@hitssquad The apologetics. I.e. "regression to the mean" is an actual statistical behavior. But it is being misused. I give you two means, but I do not tell you the causation that establishes them. Can you see a difference if both have the same probability distribution (let's say Gaussian)?
And if you cannot answer this, why are you even fit to have that argument with me?
@hitssquad I'm clear. Do you know what it means to have two means and two probability distributions with them. Do you understand that these two are enough to compare statements about them? And if you understand 'regression to the mean" you would understand precisely what I am asking here. So do you understand the statistical arguments, or are you just yet another racist who pretends to know to defend his position?
@hitssquad See you accuse me of what you are doing. I asked you questions. You dodge them by asking a counter-question. But you don't even know that I already gave you the recipe to answer your very own question. Two means, plug in factors you want to investigate, check if it is statistically distinguishable. Done.
But you don't know the first thing of what you are talking about. So let me answer the question I asked of you: No, you are not fit to have this argument.
@socrates856 "I won't hold back when they indeed bend the facts"
Nor should anyone else. Hope my vibe there didn't even remotely suggest that a bending of facts should be ignored for the sake of the fact bender's tendency to feel like christ on a stick. So just to clarify: I was only targeting the sometimes exaggerated psychoanalysis & personality games anti-racists subject "racialists" to, not the cold hard facts.
BTW great job deconstructing that debate bit in your last video. Solid info.
6:10 "Would it not be more goal-oriented to divide individuals"
Not necessarily, because a good individual from a bad population group will tend to:
1. test better than he actually is.
2. make up for his good traits with equally bad traits.
3. Have children who regress to his native population mean.
.
There might be benefits from periodic scientifically-controlled hybridization, however. This isn't the same thing as continuous, uncontrolled hybridization.
1. Test better than he really is: If so, the error lies not with the concept but the method of testing at hand, correctable through trial & error.
2. make up for his good traits with equally bad traits: The individuals I'm referring to would be a net positive in the exact same manner any other individual is. Do you deny that the possibility of the existence of any non-white "net positive" individuals?
3. Have children who regress to his native population mean: Answered in video: SD.
No, I was low on space so I shortened it instead of just posting another comment. What I meant to say is that it's answered in this video, and "SD" was short for "Social Darwinism" trimming out the few potential victims of harshly regressive biological outcomes. I'm operating under the assumption that the community at hand wouldn't dish out any form of gov't welfare to the weakest, who'd thus be left to the whims of dicey charity & ultimately dissipate
@AntiBullshitMan "I'm operating under the assumption that the community at hand wouldn't dish out any form of gov't welfare to the weakest"
So you're assuming that immigrants and their descendants would never be allowed to vote? One principal assumption of racial segregationists is that voting patterns are affected by genetics. Did you know that?
@hitssquad "you're assuming that immigrants and their descendants would never be allowed to vote"
I don't see how you could possibly jump to voting when all I said was that welfare (as in, gov't cheese, forced redistribution of wealth) itself would be off limits & not subject to majority vote under the reformed Constitution. It would be a "pull yourself by your bootstraps" society. I've never run into a single separatist who endorses taxation as a means to anything aside from minarchist basics.
@AntiBullshitMan "I don't see how you could possibly jump to voting"
A society that has adopted certain policies -- for example Social Darwinist policies -- might be susceptible, as the United States is, to having those policies voted out.
.
"& not subject to majority vote under the reformed Constitution."
That would be quite a change. Do you see that fundamental change in the constitution as politically possible right now with America already voting in the opposite direction?
@AntiBullshitMan "& not subject to majority vote under the reformed Constitution. It would be a "pull yourself by your bootstraps" society."
So, you believe that Marxists would happily go along with being ruled by a piece of paper that told them they had to, by law, live as Social Darwinists? You believe that people can be ruled by pieces of paper? Where has this ever happened in history?
Why on earth are you under the impression that this new society would be composed of Marxists, let alone have Marxists dominate the electorate? It was already explained that the thought experiment applies solely to land that is currently uninhabited. Can you point to any Marxist who anxiously awaits the return of segregation so to willingly move there & live among separatist minded individuals? Had this been about forcefully re-segregating already populated areas, the Marxist effect would arise.
@AntiBullshitMan "Can you point to any Marxist who anxiously awaits the return of segregation so to willingly move there & live among separatist minded individuals?"
Yes. As Michael Moore pointed out upon the election of Obama, the campaign to flood the United States -- a formerly free-market nation -- with collectivists can now be declared a success as they have shifted the politics of America toward socialist.
Had to run out yesterday before making another point: Many of these "socialist" reforms you attribute to Marxists/minorities, occurred under FDR... decades before blacks even obtained full voting rights (or if you prefer: before blacks chose to fully exercise them) & well before America faced her immigration upheaval. It was the primarily white, American working class; born & bred in the vicinity of small gov't codes, whose collective unsatisfactory experience of adhering to those codes... (1/2)
...Whose collective poor experience in adhering to those principles in the workplace led them to realization that collective action was necessary, & so began the formation of the strongest middle class in history. "Marxists" & colored folk weren't the cause of it. The cause was robber baron capitalism. Whether you agree with them or not, the white majority felt exploited & resorted to mass labor protests. If you fear it reoccurring in a reformed state, no amount of "white only" will help.
Socialism = Means of production mutually controlled by workers. The US economy still operates as a private animal for the primary purpose of profit. It barely even passes for a mixed economy.
And are you seriously implying, by way of Moore's buffoonery, that Marxists are secretly conspiring to infiltrate any & all newly formed non-interventionist communities, because people voted Obama in 08? Obama. The rich man's wet dream Obama? That Obama? Hell will freeze over before the US turns socialist.
@AntiBullshitMan "Many of these "socialist" reforms you attribute to Marxists/minorities, occurred under FDR"
Yes: oilgeopolitics. net/History/New_Deal/new_deal. html "A second, and increasingly influential faction of inner circle around FDR grouped around Harvard Law School Professor Felix Frankfurter, and his close friend, Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. The Frankfurter group overlapped the Tugwell central planning faction, around their mutual hostility to banking and finance.
"Frankfurter turned increasingly towards a socialist outlook, without using the word, during a winter spent in England in 1933-1934 where his earlier friendship with London School of Economics Marxist economics professor, Harold Laski deepened. Laski, the inspiration for Labour Party nationalization of coal, steel and other industry after the war as well as of the Beveridge Plan creating the British postwar Welfare State, enjoyed regular access to FDR whenever he visited Washington in the
"mid-1930's which was often. While in London that winter, Frankfurter also cultivated a friendship with economist John Maynard Keynes, recruiting Keynes to advise the New Deal on recovery.
Frankfurter selected key people to staff the New Deal bureaucracy, thus securing his influence on evolution of regulatory and other New Deal policy implementation. His students from Harvard included Benjamin Cohen, Tommy Corcoran, James Landis, and others. Frankfurter's outlook was embodied in the phrase,
"social engineering, with the Federal government as regulator. In March 1935 Frankfurter convinced FDR to appoint Frankfurter's law student and close friend, Thomas Corcoran, to be FDR's White House adviser, giving Frankfurter far more hands-on ability to direct priorities for the President based on Frankfurter's personal agenda, an agenda consistently hostile to business."
@AntiBullshitMan "Marxists" & colored folk weren't the cause of it."
Recently, a new drop in economic freedom has occurred in the US: heritage. org/index/ranking
The US used to rank above Canada. Over the course of the Obama administration, its ranking has steadily dropped below Canada's to where it is now: 9th vs. Canada's 6th place ranking.
This citation holds no relevance to the crux behind my original point. So again, fact: John Lewis labor strikes & FDR's landslide victory in 1936 were *not* the product of an electorate/workforce infiltrated by Marxists/minorities, but instead white Americans, born & bred.
This exchange began over your concern about my assertion pertaining to Social Darwinism taking effect due to lack of gov't redistribution, when such can also occur in a white dominated society.
Therefore your dismissal of the points behind my entire "individual merit based segregation" vs. "broadness of race based segregation" evaluation holds no water. Separatists generally aren't in favor of welfare states, & it's beyond conspiratorial to suggest that individuals who do have access to gov't welfare & who are repulsed by the mere concept of separatism, would still somehow end up infiltrating white only societies & shaping elections, just to fuck some shit up for kicks.
4:50 "what do we generally mean when we say "better society"? [...] what factors [...] less crime, less unemployment, less welfare leeches, less violence, less domestic abuse, less substance abuse, higher IQ average, etc., all that good stuff."
Why don't you simply use the quality of human condition index (QHC) or the Human Development Index (HDI)?: en. wikipedia. org/wiki/ IQ_and_Global_Inequality#National_IQ_and_QHC_values
Be careful what you ask for. The racialist community could be highly successful. Just look at the Japanese, they are not the most racially tolerant people, but they've done well for themselves.
@DKshad0w There are a number of things that distinguish the Japanese economy from many western nations. Post war reconstruction & USA subsidy to undercut the influence of the left, positive attitude to technological & organizational progress from Meiji onwards, obscene pressure to succeed & a work ethic putting Calvinism to shame.
It is counterproductive ,costly and time consuming.
You can have though,screening for immigration purposes on the bases of culture and nationality with indicators the performance of existing immigrant communities.
Its obvious from social studies, that when you opt instead of Indians or Chinese, for people of Muslim background or African ancestry, you opt for an explosion of crime, antisocial behaviors, social and ethic conflicts ,
@AmetReloads ... high dependency on welfare, and radical native reactions to the above.
Political instability leads to nationalism/isolationism, change of the political balances/priorities & greater restrictions.
Not to screen who is a better candidate for immigration purposes,is discrimination against those that do fulfill the objective criteria and discriminating against natives with policies that dont promote their best interests,which is the ultimate criteria for immigration.
@AmetReloads "counterproductive ,costly and time consuming"
So is educating children, but a mere snippet away from short-term thinking is enough to glean the net-benefit at play. Same goes for any given firm's hiring practices. The interview process along with the gathering of qualifications & background checks is costly & grating, but to avoid it is to sign the firm's death warrant. Perfectly applicable to societies; especially ones in early stages of development. Qualify the sum of all parts.
The "better society" the segregationists want is a mirror reflecting only their own "perfection." Removing problems of crime, poverty, and ignorance from the larger society is an excuse to this narcisstic end, self-deluding in its superficial plausibility. Proof is the toleration of such behavior when commited by one's "own."
Face tracking is racist, and I'm seasick. Good points against segregation. I'm was left wandering why anti-natalists always seem to present this false dichotomy of anti vs pro natalism. As we know this is a tactic of segregation that you touch on. That is to say that the argument is presented as if their are no shades of grey. Personally, the words are meaningless to me, outside of propaganda sound bytes, and use in reference.
There are no shades of gray when it comes to slavery, and the same can be said for AntiNatalism. Either you endorse the creation of unnecessary need for DNA's sake, or you condemn it. Being in the middle is like favoring the US circa 1865-1963, after slavery but before the Civil Rights Act. The only people who call themselves middle grounders when it comes to AN, are people concerned with overpopulation, which is a totally different subject from AN.
@AntiBullshitMan All things bear shades of grey, one could compare servitude in any form to slavery, hell one could even make the argument with some success that the modern underclass is in slavery, or at least the prison system. Things are never Black and White, that's the mark of a racist, or a bigot, and just a flat out dishonest political tactic. Just not being a anti does not equate to pro, in any case regardless, all things are relative.
@ramshaka "Things are never Black and White, that's the mark of a racist, or a bigot, and just a flat out dishonest political tactic"
The only dishonesty stems from ongoing attempts to obfuscate the need equation & basic language to the point where the most important conversation human beings can possibly have, cannot take place in any concrete fashion. Suggesting, though heated rhetoric, that one is a racist/bigot for boldly asserting "slavery is bad" is your political shyster move, not mine.
@AntiBullshitMan "obfuscate"--I really like that word, added to vocabulary TY.
"Suggesting, though heated rhetoric"--??? I thought I was being clear and rational, certainly wasn't going for heated.
"your political shyster move, not mine"-- look all I said was all things are nuanced and relative not 1 vs 1. I fail to see the "shysterarian" rhetoric. However, false dichotomy is a well known, and documented tactic of the shyster. I'm just pointing these things out, no need to get excited.
"Things are never Black and White, that's the mark of a racist, or a bigot, and just a flat out dishonest political tactic"
You called *me* all these things. I freely admit that the human race has gathered a substantial repertoire of clear-cut data (Darwin, Einstein, Mendel) with which we can draw solid conclusions about our role, or lack thereof, pertaining to reproduction. Seeing as we're not on a rescue mission, procreation is the cause, not cure.
@AntiBullshitMan If you interpreted my statements as a direct implication to you personally, I apologize, that however, doesn't excuse the black and white rhetoric, which is what I intended to attack.
"procreation is the cause, not cure"
I see and understand what your saying and I concur, that in no way makes me an antinatalist. While I feel that the antinatialist logic can be said to be sound, its far from a rational idea to put into practice. (cont)
@AntiBullshitMan The fact that human growth rate at any level is unsustainable is a fact. Benatarian equations aside. One need only calculate any growth rate across any number or years to see the exponential rise in demand that would devour the earth. However, I feel that highly irrational antinatalist philosophy detracts from the facts, and real situation, rather than offer any aid or solace. (end)
@ramshaka "highly irrational antinatalist philosophy detracts from the facts"
What facts would those be?
"and real situation, rather than offer any aid or solace"
The evident lack of probability of AN gaining any sort of ground or even a slight measure of political weight, is an argument for the hopelessness & futility of AN, not the irrationality of AN. I agree that it is a fruitless endeavor. This is partly why I rarely ever advocate it in videos. But it doesn't undo the rationale behind it
@AntiBullshitMan Your technically right that the futility or hopelessness of AN to gain traction is not, inherently irrational. However, the thought process that mindlessly tacks on a AN philosophy to a real problem unnecessarily is irrational. ie. I wouldn't have a problem calling myself AN where it just defined as the lack of support of free reign rampant reproduction. That said, now the term has the weight of typically irrational emotional, highly controversial philosophy upon it.
@AntiBullshitMan Here's a good set of videos on the facts, I'm referring to. Just Youtube search: The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See (part 1 of 8)
@AntiBullshitMan Also, I should point out that anti-natalism as it relates to the Benatarian equation put into action, along side probability, or more specifically probability of blighted birth as it relates to race, class, or whatever. Would be the epitome of racism, or bigotry in general. However, I do suppose the topic is an easy "gotcha" for the "natalist", and I don't presume you hold such thoughts, but such thoughts do follow logically, and I'd be remiss to not point them out.
@ramshaka "more specifically probability of blighted birth as it relates to race, class, or whatever. Would be the epitome of racism, or bigotry in general"
Please point me to the specific videos on AN that you've watched from proponents of AN which have led you to this bizarre conclusion. You can also contextually quote Benetar if that's preferable. I haven't read anything from him, though I remain confident that you've misinterpreted something somewhere somehow. So, bring on the vids/quote.
@AntiBullshitMan No need for Quotes, I'm not contesting what any AN is saying here, just pointing out that, an irrational, or bizarre, side effect that a mass adoption of AN would undoubtedly exhibit, as evidenced by the fact that the people whom posses the train of thought that your addressing this video to,do exist. Which is why I quickly differ to the disclaimer as well, and the only conclusion that I make, that such things would follow logically.
@AntiBullshitMan No shades of gray? Need I remind you that there is such a thing as nonchalance? It's entirely possible to not carry any opinion whatsoever on almost any given subject, especially if it doesn't touch directly upon your own personal life.
@TheLittleTpot "It's entirely possible to not carry any opinion whatsoever on almost any given subject, especially if it doesn't touch directly upon your own personal life"
Which has nothing to do with the concept of a human brain's ability to comprehend stone-cold reality & with it draw rational conclusions about the best way to reduce suffering. If you don't value the reduction of suffering to begin with, then sadly you & I have little to discuss, as I'm motivated by little else.
@AntiBullshitMan Ability is irrelevant. I was merely demonstrating that you can find shades of gray in any subject of discussion. It's a philosophical subject, which I should probably have been a bit clearer in pointing out.
And on the contrary, I feel that we could probably have a very delightful discussion, as I do see merit and good will in your claim to be motivated almost solely by the thought of decreasing suffering, even if your words are somewhat self-righteous.
The fact that we will always find certain truths illusive & out of our grasp is meritorious only when they're qualified for in the context of a few missing puzzle pieces without which the entire image my puzzle displays is deemed as unrecognizable.
I did sound a bit self-righteous, but I get a bit sloppy in my phrasing after receiving almost 100 comments in less than 48 hrs. I'm well aware there are others who are far more motivated to alleviate suffering than I happen to be.
@AntiBullshitMan Still, it's obvious that we put priority on entirely differing subjects and that you're not here for a philosophy debate so I will not waste your time any further.
Yes I am. I'm saying we don't need to place a magnifying glass next to every acre of the moon to declare it's not made of cheese. There are plenty of people who deliberately go out of their way to muddy even the most basic truths, out of what is in my view, their dislike of where truth generally points. It's vital to note.
"so I will not waste your time any further"
It's no waste.
"I feel that we could probably have a very delightful discussion" - ?
@captwasabi Its just a joke, referring to the swimming camera. Google "HP computers are racist" that will lead you to the reference of the joke, and a funny video to boot.
@ramshaka Ok cause I was confused as hell. I knew that face tracking was the ability for cameras to detect faces and track them but I thought perhaps you were referring to the use of facial recognition software. Thanks for clarifying.
Good arguments. Sadly those who need to understand your content have probably blocked their ears and started mumbling "Anti Racist is Anti white" over and over till the video finished. Still it's worth doing. If someone is on the fence you may have some sway.
They can't do the "anti racist = anti white" thing. Not after I dedicated the first 5-10 minutes of the video to that particular persecution complex. They can't possibly ignore all that...
i em someone who feels the full effects of this where i live / i feel like i can't get out of here when i know thats what i really need or that what i need is out there / my city,town is very behind on making sure there is enough work or jobs 2 give someone the option 2 make there life better when i em well equiped 2 do so / i feel like i em being kept somewhere that i know i will not create life in i will continue 2 refuse till i can find that 1 way out & its sad when i could of avoided it
No no, there were points from the get go. Had I not methodically addressed the PC bullshit along with the "anti-this = anti-that" mantra, I'd have ended up having to put up with it in text, judging by seemingly every other comment section on this subject.
When you don't block dense knee-jerkers, you can't just springboard into the main part of a video. Especially a video like this one, that carries all sorts of hang-ups. I have 2+ years experience with this shit, so I know.
The horrid irony of this that literally gives me anxiety attacks is that people like them have CAUSED this situation. Also, it's amazing how many people like this there are in all walks of life that are contributing to maintaining the status quo of marginalization of minority groups. Fuckers.
It's been proven that "all that good stuff" can happen with environmental factors. I totally agree in not giving the separatists any more fuel for their "you're PC" fire. But one- they are foaming at the mouth racists that focus on one in particular on one country (or two).They've already said they don't want to separate people by IQ, and that even though FE conceded on the race being a social construct thing, the others think Americans with African decent are irredeemable due to ancestry.
2. then the circular reasoning sets in, because we all know that there are thousands maybe millions of AA all smarter than these boobs. What they say is it "averages out"...so they insist on grouping them into teams, like FE's football analogy and saying, well you could have a couple players with outstanding abilities, but the other team is filled with players all with better stats than yours, then your abilities wash out. They group them this way even against what science says due to racism.
@boobootoob "all that good stuff" can happen with environmental factors"
No contention from me. The video is meant to demonstrate how the hereditarian premise, regardless of validity/invalidity, still doesn't justify segregation as the rational conclusion. I had to somewhat placate it in order to illustrate the point.
I'd be more motivated to argue the ins & outs of the IQ studies, but the recent "peer reviewed = appeal to authority" arguments killed whatever tiny bit of spirit I had left.
@AntiBullshitMan Yeah that was weird especially since the first part SH used Rushton and mentioned a study he did that went counter to his own beliefs so he left it out of his future analysis. FE even used Rushton, of course then called him into question, but FE said "appeal to authority" but his whole position was based a couple of studies. I think FE was just talking out his ass, he did that a couple of times. I have analyzed the first half of that debate over and over, I'm on the second half.
Yeah I saw your 1st analysis vid. Found your meticulous detective-like approach of examining a blog tv debate on racism in the year 2011, just a little hilarious.
Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea for a video series... but you gotta admit it has an element of derp humor to it.
What about the argument from diversity? That races are unique expressions of humanity, with phenotypes which should be preserved because they are inherently valuable? A similar argument is made all the time for imposing human intervention to save endangered species from going exinct, and likewise, it seems intuitively right to maintain pedigrees of dogs and not simply allow them to all intermix into mongrels.
The argument from diversity rests on subjective mush. Much like a pretty sunset, it holds no credibility with me or anyone else capable of objective ethical analysis. I also don't much care about endangered species, being an AN & all.
Individuals whose tax dollars went into enhancing the district they reside in, shouldn't be forced to leave that district all because some superficial dolts think it's crucial to preserve the triviality of blond hair / blue eyes aesthetics.
@CitizenOccidens Can I just thank you for the way you made this video? You come across as really trying to understand the opposing position (which almost no one I've spoken to does), and you also seem to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, and generally I haven't heard any bullshit ad homs or fallacies from you. I might not agree with you on some things, but if you want to change people's minds, you're going about it in exactly the right way.
For the record I'm mostly abstaining from ad homs & giving the people the benefit of doubt because YT has been overflowing with the polar opposite approach over the last year, so anything else would amount to a giant cliche on my part. It has nothing to do with me being under the impression that merely insulting people makes any other point in my video invalid. I'm just tired of all the non-stop bickering on here. Hostility should be reserved for special occasions, not 24/7.
they seem to be arguing the soft end, mostly. there are even some people who call themselves racial realists who, as you say, may well have come to those conclusions from completely benign and well intentioned reasonings. you dont have to be a racist to be wrong about this stuff.
first rule of genetics; spread the jeans apart.. no but seriously, they seem to largely be arguing from nature. and these are atheists. another example of the one less god dynamic not being extended to the dna molecule, me thinks?
the "people would naturally segregate..." argument is ridiculous. what, are we not supposed to be above those kinds of primeval presumptions? can our intelligence not extend to acceptance of and constructive interaction with any person, regardless of skin tone?
The kids grown up in the segregated areas would say "FU, I'm out of here"?
I'm not so sure... :/ Some might, some might not.
I'm a pronatalist, but I don't believe opinions are hereditary. I do believe there are statistical truths that while not absolute, might exist in a large enough population. It's not hard to imagine a society where certain individuals brought up to believe their race was superior would emphasize that to themselves to forget their own failings.
@Snagabott "It's not hard to imagine a society where certain individuals brought up to believe their race was superior would emphasize that to themselves"
It simply wouldn't fly in the digital age. And I'll just stress that according to most 40-50 year olds I know, it didn't even fly half a century ago. Adjust that for alternative media & you'd be left with a tiny percentage of kids gullible enough to never question ma n' pa.
@AntiBullshitMan OK, I just think it's not a matter of information. Peoples beliefs are formed by what is convenient much more than critical examination of evidence. For example, just take a look at some of the countless subcultures here on YT, who cluster around each other to pat each others backs and confirm their biases, from 9/11-truthers to commies to antinatalists to religious denominations of all kinds - all of which hold the absolute truth and see all unbelievers as deluded/suspect.
Who are correct until proven otherwise by a rational counterargument, instead of dismissive "that's subjective" non-starters, conveniently applied by natalists to ethical arguments they dislike, but not to a myriad of other ethical arguments for rape etc, for which they'll gladly impose stiff laws despite the supposed weight of the subjectivity non-starter.
As for your overall point; I did address the inverse effect after the battery ran out. Saving it for the next video.
@AntiBullshitMan Even if people accept that Antinatalism is a subjective philosophy....the evidence of pain and suffering does not mean that antinatalists are instantly refuted, because one person out of one hundred has enjoyed their existence on Earth. I am still an antinatalist despite being convinced by wisemonkey888 and Karl Popper's anti-pseudo empiricism,,,, which convinced me that antinatalism is a subjective philosophy. Good video here by the way sir.
@ABM The proposition "creating life is wrong" no more "correct until proven wrong" than "there is a god" or "it was an inside job".
Pointing out inherent subjectivity is a valid argument if the opponent tries to weasel in arguments from outside agreed standards. Usually one starts from a common, though subjective, ground (eg "suffering is a bad experience") to attempt to show validity of a proposition. But you can't then secretly leave that ground to weasel in support when you hit a wall.
The onus does not fall on the slave to prove why his enslavement is wrong. The onus does not fall on the victim of a drunk driver to prove that drunk driving is wrong. The burden lies with those who commit the reckless act, to explain why their behavior was necessary/justified. A weasel could not in any other conversation justify, due to a lack of formula, an excuse to roll dice & burden others by imposing on them something they never asked for, because the weasel just felt like it.
@AntiBullshitMan Although addressed to Snagabott, I'll jump in: is the result - birth = to slavery or getting creamed by a drunk? Most will not agree as they see a qualitative difference. Procreation has never been criminalized for any reason outside the Third Reich. Rightly or wrongly AN bears the burden of old eugenics.
@TheAzov "Most will not agree as they see a qualitative difference"
There are people in this world who'd rather eat literal shit than die of starvation. There are people who will not only be entertained by, but live for, the next American Idol season. These opinions of qualitative difference are worth nothing to me. Address the rolling of dice with other people's welfare & essentially entering them in a lottery where endless variations of snake eyes are a possibility & sometimes an inescapably.
@AntiBullshitMan Most won't agree with the philosophic basis for AN, either. There was an old Tin Pan Alley song from the 1910s (remember it well) "Life is just a lottery- you take a chance," etc. The existentialism is nothing new. But at the end of the day most, even in the song, choose existence with its uncertainties to the certainty of death.
You're making it circular. You're also bordering on ad populum. In some areas, this strategy is not to be fully undermined. When it comes to AN though, to apply it is to ignore the unintelligent forces behind what drives people to arrive at such conclusions in the 1st place. I know you don't have reverence for crude DNA molecules that own us, just as you don't with crude aspirations most people have to spiritually connect with their creator. It's an opinion derived from ego/biology, not merit.
@AntiBullshitMan People do have genetically coded aspirations for physical & psychological connection as do all other mammals. This commonality is what makes said ad populum. Earth's ecosystem is like a human body & we're the cookies & candy. In small amounts we taste sweet. Too many of us is toxic & leads to morbid obesity, diabetes, & premature death. While it's true the earth is approaching morbidity in overpopulated life, does that negate the original sweetness that led to addiction?
@AntiBullshitMan This is a slave that can get up, unscathed, from under the car and leave his master at any time. It might be an imposition, but it's a 100% reversible one - just swallow some pills and go to sleep. Happens all the time - no need to fight instincts.
Even you, ABM, roll those dice whenever you interact with others - try though we might, we can never put the probability of impacting others negatively to zero. If nothing justifies risk to others, suicide is mandated.
I live in Texas. If you asked whites here if they were interested in segregation, you would end up with a slightly dumbed down white population of yes votes. Good point!
superjtrdr 2 months ago
O_o Raymond?
TheDreadedlife 2 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan You're awesome! I've been trying to tell this to the racial realist zombies but they're fucking drones spouting the same crap.
Ruka sucks, fuck race nationalists.
Racial realist is code word for REAL RACIST. :P
DogmasDemise 2 months ago
@DogmasDemise - You're AWESOME for coming up with that little mantra at the end of your post to counter that stupid mantra "race realists" and white nationalists use. "Racial realist is code word for REAL RACIST." I like that! People who take on these idiots need to start repeating that back at them every time they deploy that "Anti-racist is code for anti-white" nonsense.
A86 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Well if you genuenly want to know, then look at the apollo missions and nasa back in the 60s they were all white male many of them like rocket scientist Von Braun were nazis, brought over from germany after the war. So yes, an all white male nazi team put Neil Armstrong on the moon. In the early 00s Nasa announced that they had to become more diverse and started affirmative action to hire more women and minorities : D and that was the end of americas space program. Now it's the end of america.
xxCrazySmooth 3 months ago
Question in video "wouldnt it be better to have people segregate off what they have proven they can do"
answer- short term yes, but this ignores the studies done in sweden on children naturally segregating themselves by race. Article on Science daily web, various others
Long term no, regression towards the mean in genetics applies, 2 exceptional parents will more than likely produce a child that is closer to the mean racial group scores, crime rates, ect. articles, again on science daily
ScoundrelzNTwK 3 months ago
@ama
1. Extraordinary claim. Evidence to contrary needed. What other qualities are the majority of outspoken, self-admitted racists looking to segregate based off of?
2. You have quotation marks around #1, but not #2. Are you suggesting that I premised this video on the idea that racists are incapable of accepting that Neil deGrasse Tyson is a smart individual?
"amount of time you use"
Over-qualifying limits the amount of straw I typically have to eat, based on 2.5 years of vloggy experience
AntiBullshitMan 4 months ago 12
I removed one of my comments because it was a little derpy, i did forget i watched the video again, and this had nothing to do with Ruka, i was just thinking of the nationalism debate that did explode after her video, but that does not make every video a vid response to hers, so again very good video on this subject.
whedonfreak976 5 months ago
@verwoestijning "He realises now that there is an answer"
This reminds me of an argument with a truther who failed to grasp a basic point I was repeatedly making & as a result went around telling others that I must be intellectually dishonest for continuing to argue. You're not psychic, and pretending to be in order to paint your opponent as dishonest behind their back is a deplorable tactic, you disingenuous prick.
I'll indulge you anyway though: antibullshitman(dot)blogspot(dot)com/
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@verw "He asked the question"
See my last reply to your fellow heckler above.
"in the confident expectation that there was no possible answer"
Right, because prior to making this video I was under the stern delusion that I have omniscient knowledge of the law structure of every single civilized spot of land worldwide, & it was your Japan comment that gave me the epiphany that I actually don't. Despite Japan not even meeting the lawful qualifications at hand.
Or, you just like to misinterpret
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
Your inability to comprehend how policies are inherently tied to segregation, which is defined as "the enforced separation of different racial groups in a country, community, or establishment" says nothing of my debating style, but rather your glaring thickness.
"You debate like a desperate sophist. Are you running for office?"
Go fuck yourself with that rotten character assassination attempt you smarmy little cuntstain. How's that for slick political rhetoric?
I can make it slicker for you.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
"There is no mentioning of policies anywhere in the video"
It couldn't be more clear that this video directly targets policies. You're either deaf, or dumb enough to think the segregation application forms I constructed would not be a compulsory qualifier for who is permitted entrance. On that note, what % of the Japanese lose sleep over the *fact* that no such forms exist as mandate to enter their land? For the 3rd time: Segregation is MORE than mere superior compatibility with one's own race.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
"In the video you ask for an example of a successful, monoracial, segregationist"
What I said is I'd like to see it in the modern age. That's not a question. As I already explained, Japan doesn't qualify as it doesn't practice *segregationist policies*. Before giving me another knee-jerk reaction, read carefully: When I spoke of 40-50 year olds I've encountered who were glad to see segregation end, they weren't talking about culture. It was about policy. Such is the basis for the entire video.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan
It was a question, just because you didn't say "wouldn't it be interesting to see..." and said "I'd like to see ..." doesn't mean that you weren't asking a question about a segregated society that exists today.
How many Japanese people have you met in your life? Some of the biggest racists I know are Japanese. This doesn't mean that the majority of them are racist, but there IS a STRONG element of racism there which seems to get a complete pass from you, unlike white racism.
ThePovratakOtpisanih 5 months ago
@TheP
Sorry bud, it wasn't a question. Re-watch that part of the video. If you maintain it's a question, then you're unable to differentiate between questions and mere remarks regarding how some societies, which were once upon a time structured differently through discriminatory law, don't exist anymore in that same incarnation, but I'd be curious to see how they'd do in the digital age of where the effects of alternative media are often inescapable for anyone not kept in a cage 24/7/52. Dolt.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@BullshitMan
Maybe you should also add that it's clearly not a question cuz you didn't inject animated question marks in the video complete with reflective music, while making these "mere remarks". LMAO
BSman's thought process: The Japanese are in a completely different category because they don't make YT videos calling for Segregation like the white nationalists whose vids I watched. lol
Plus if you bother searching for it, you will find Japanese people making videos endorsing Segregation.
ThePovratakOtpisanih 5 months ago
@TheP ""mere remarks". LMAO"
Do yourself a favor: Look up every written example of someone stating "I'd like to see *such & such*..." and tell me how many you find that end with the use of a question mark instead of the use of a period. Then come back here & tell me how stupid you feel. Then read this: antibullshitman(dot)blogspot(dot)com/
"BullshitMan"
The Department Of Painfully Unoriginal Insult Perpetuation thanks you.
Long live the overuse of uninspired cliches!
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@TheP *sigh*
Your thought process: Japan is filled with mostly Japanese people, therefore Japanese people must be racialists or have a high tolerance for racialist sentiments.
It doesn't follow. They don't give a flying fuck about the fact that non-Japanese walk among them.
"How many Japanese people have you met in your life"
Quite a few actually, considering where I live. None of them the least bit racist. They didn't even show any signs of holding xenophobic views prior to moving out here
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@verwoestijning
Should Japan at some point in the future actually undertake active enforcement of segregationist policies, as opposed to legally permitting all races to integrate like they do now, it will then be applicable to the items discussed in this video.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
I don't think people would flee from a white nationalist state. I think it'd be a lot like Japan. Just replace cultural Marxism with a loyalty to the tribe mentality and you have a recipe for cohesion.
PoweredByMagnets 5 months ago
The analogy is moot as Japanese immigration policies aren't racially driven. And while I myself have never been to Japan, I've known many who have. The treatment they received for not being Japanese (which was almost 100% innocuous) is not comparable to the treatment blacks received during times of actual segregation
"loyalty to the tribe mentality"
The cohesion you stand to gain may very well come at a bloody price. See: Almost every other society with a collective hard on for tribe mentality
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Japan is kind to visitors but unkind to immigrants. I'm referring to their culture, not their immigration policies, which is extremely racially driven. No culture has a harder tribe boner than Japan, without being outright racist. That's because their culture still "respects" outsiders, even though it hangs "asian only" signs outside every restaurant. Cohesion is fine without superiority. Ruka is for nonaggression so it's very analogous, but idk what the others are advocating.
PoweredByMagnets 5 months ago
@Powered "I'm referring to their culture, not their immigration policies"
The basis for my prediction that most kids-turned-adults would depart from a white-only society was grounded in the fact that it'd be white-only by *legal* mandate, not just whimsy culture. This is why I said your Japan analogy is moot, as the underpinnings behind my analysis (40 year olds disgusted with the segregation they grew up in) revolved around the fact that it *was* legally enforced.
The vid wasn't about Ruka.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
Segregation has nothing to do with making a better community - its just a bunch of scared inferrior children getting together to tell themselves their better then everyone else, in the most angry way possible - - - like church.
Callirgos1 5 months ago
@Callirgos1
But it's still interesting to indulge their premise & argue from there, just to see what they'll come up with in an attempt to obfuscate the blatant incompatibility in their premise. Nothing so far.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
Segregation is just code talk for hate and fear i know that is a simple answer, but sometimes the best answer is the most simple. Also the proposals you lay out for them, not one of these segregation fools would follow. As far as I Q goes, race=I Q is bull shit. I think my brother said it best when he said that it is environment, education, and family, and other factors that contribute to I Q not skin color dear god.
FangoFan68 5 months ago
Well done video! I do think you underestimate the effect that rearing a child with a specific mindset can have on that person's outlook. I have seen too many videos of children holding hate signs to think that they will somehow develop an open minded outlook while being cared for and looking up to racist parents. Xenophobic societies can and do thrive even in the internet age.
Jusoon 5 months ago
I don't like your hair. It makes you look pompous.
Shave it or do something with it, poofy hair man. <3
jpsousa4 5 months ago
And i thought a lot of the anarchist who are supporting this, and the neocons, and the liberatians who support this. even peaceful segregation would require government force weather they like to admit it or not.
FangoFan68 5 months ago
If the racist excuse me nationalist are gonna set their standards they should follow through on them. Why stop at race? If men and women cannot get along well separate them right? No, hold test to make sure that they fit their criteria, and if someone is sick, or if they do not have "pure" DNA then throw them out. Why stop at race? Swing for the fences you damn fools, go the whole 9 yards. There is so many flaws about a nationalist society has. And government force would be required. Cont.
FangoFan68 5 months ago
Just read GUNS, GERMS, & STEEL the answers to all of this is madness is their.
tonkaaaaa 5 months ago
Did you play Rudy?
amazonhippie 5 months ago
@AtheistDefender "would it trouble you at all?"
Nope. And race differences do exist, with all credible peer-reviewed data pointing to it being mostly environmentally driven, as I'm sure you've heard mentioned once or twice. This is why I typically inquire about particulars before jumping to genetic based conclusions. In any event, the differences are nebulous.
As for the 12% of blacks in US; I'm from BC, Canada's multicultural vortex, so the tiny % should raise at least a margin of an eyebrow.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
An analysis of segregating races is, in the long run, moot. Non-whites hate whites, but you don't get that, do you? These debates always seem to boil down to what "whites" think about this, when in fact most non-whites are far more racist than most whites. We tire of the invalid premise that whites owe non-whites for past wrongs or that all that whites are born racists. When it comes to segregation, non-whites ALWAYS choose self-segregation over integration EVERY TIME and are PROUD of that.
mikespulligan 6 months ago
@mikespulligan "Non-whites hate whites, but you don't get that"
Even if this was generally the case, the scenario posed in the video deals with non-whites who *have* concretely demonstrated having zero contempt towards anyone based on race alone. If you believe no such non-white individuals exist, I'll gladly e-introduce you to all of the ones I've gotten to know personally, as 9 out of 10 of them held no ill will against me or anyone else based on race. You have zero rationale to exclude them.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AtheistDefender
What I'm saying is that before you do anything you must adjust by looking at all applicants, which I think also requires you to include the NCAA. Then see if there are stats available countering the amount of overall dedicated practice time pre-NBA, areas with a pre-existing "basketball culture" if I may, & how those fare in terms of populations. I've never looked into these either, but it's important to do so & not just assume that it's "cuz they're genetically prone to it".
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AtheistDefender
Blacks make up only around 8% of the total workforce in my firm in BC. Does this lead to the automatic conclusion that blacks are generally less genetically capable of performing the tasks required to gain employment at this particular firm, or can you see how this warrants additional variables, namely the % of white applicants rejected for the job compared to the % of black applicants rejected for the job. There's a plethora of other factors, but I'm sure you get the idea.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@TheBlood2pay
It's not "my society". I'm humoring the separatist premise and working my way from there.
But it's true, Yale graduates would be dissatisfied working in fast food joints. I assume segregationists would rationalize this away by asserting that they'd permit just enough unskilled workers to enter their community. Which somewhat contradicts the entire premise behind the urgent necessity to separate on account of low post-secondary education rates in blacks, in the first place.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
Bravo sir. It was worth the wait :)
tuber123asd 6 months ago
Four minutes in, and it's still a rambling, repetitive preamble. Get to the fucking point already...
tuber123asd 6 months ago
@tuber123asd "Get to the fucking point already..."
There is more than one point. Aptly describing the layers of context behind all of the points necessitates a length of time surpassing that of a soundbite. If you comprehend the first 4 minutes as rambling, this channel is probably not for you. I don't do campaign ad spoon-feeding type videos.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Pardon my rude comment. There was actually quite a lot of value and salience in your video, overall. Plenty of quality thinking therein. Thanks for sharing.
tuber123asd 6 months ago
Comment removed
whedonfreak976 6 months ago
@whedonfreak976 "And BTW i did like the video a lot, but i am rukad out"
Well then you didn't listen, since this video has nothing to do with any of the other ones made throughout the last few weeks. I'm just tackling segregation here. You'll be hard pressed to find these points discussed among the avalanche of Ruka responses you're referring to.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Yes i did listen, but even though her name was not mentioned i got who started this whole crap of videos that flooded you tube. But at least you did not sling mud like the rest, you gave out a very thoughtful and detailed response to all of this nationalist talk. So believe me, you did not say it but trust me just like you, I am all burned out on the ruka response, and you might not have said her name, but gee i wonder who go all of this segregation videos shit as of late?
whedonfreak976 6 months ago
Started as of late, I forgot the started part.
whedonfreak976 6 months ago
Company of whites. Or whatever nationalist group fill in the blank. A lot of this is just smoke and mirrors to the fact that they have a deep seeded fear and hatred of another race that looks and acts and speaks different than they do. As far as I Q goes, i do know that race has nothing to do with I Q i think education, and family genetics, and the environment that a child is raised in has a hell of a lot more to do than the color of that child's skin, so that argument is well bull shit.
whedonfreak976 6 months ago
19:44 No, people cannot just say what is in the minds of other people, but when you hear some, not all, but some people throw out racial slurs, and you hear some talk about how inferior another race is to their own, then you get the idea of what is going on in those people's mind. And do you really think those segregation people would stand by their own rules that you outlined. No they would not, not all of them anyway, for a lot of them it is just about the fact that they prefer the cont.
whedonfreak976 6 months ago
I think what you say is intelligent, well thought out and quite brilliant. I have never watched such a great orator on YT. And I pretty much agree. Just one thing though...as quite a shallow person........get your hair cropped short....it looks like Moses has parted it. Joke. kudos.
gasgas270 6 months ago
you have some interesting points, but you tend to ramble and qualify a bit too much
CheeseLoversUnited 6 months ago
@CheeseLoversUnited
It's not rambling. Like you said, they're just qualifiers. This wasn't the norm with my old videos, but I soon found that a carefully crafted approach saves me many a headache in the way of presumptuous comments & stretchy speculations, especially with this "it's cuz you're PC" bullshit.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan I can see the point there. Out of interest, do you actually puport this idea as a good one, or are you just throwing it out as a wrench in some "race realists" pet theory?
CheeseLoversUnited 6 months ago
@CheeseLoversUnited
It's a horrible idea, unless a margin of applicants are controlled for unskilled labor positions, which no college/uni graduate would be satisfied with. This of course begs the question of why they're unsettled with the influx of uneducated minorities to begin with, as it's proportional for the old "gods&clods" to begin with.
I pointed out towards the end that it still fails in the ethics department, despite being way more rational than just taking race into the equation.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
Great, Great video man...well said. (hand clap & subbed)
true101story 6 months ago
"...and I would generally lov-" gonna finish this vid? Part 2 anytime soon?
Curious as well how a racially formed community would fare as well. As time goes on and they find their troubles do not go away. They will have to blame outsiders for their troubles or invent some sort of enemy within.
Either that or progress to a non-racial viewpoint.
kommissarw 6 months ago
@kommissarw "Part 2 anytime soon?"
I didn't add much after the battery ran out, just pointed how alternative media may have the inverse effect to the one I bolstered earlier in the vid.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
I don't care about their persecution complex. I won't hold back when they indeed bend the facts. I will contest those facts because at least people can then tell them to their face that they are full of shit. If they feel persecuted, tough luck. I'm not going to cure that problem by pampering them either.
You segregation idea won't fly with that crowd because they already have counter-apologestics called "regression to the mean". It's bunk, but that's what they'll say.
socrates856 6 months ago
@socrates856 ""regression to the mean" [is] bunk"
Source? Children selected for an IQ of 70 haven't been found to have all of their siblings averaging IQ's higher than 70?
hitssquad 6 months ago
@hitssquad How about you cite what I say, rather than change the words to make it say something else?
socrates856 6 months ago
@socrates856 "How about you cite what I say"
You didn't say: ""regression to the mean" [is] bunk"?
.
What *did* you say was bunk?
hitssquad 6 months ago
@hitssquad The apologetics. I.e. "regression to the mean" is an actual statistical behavior. But it is being misused. I give you two means, but I do not tell you the causation that establishes them. Can you see a difference if both have the same probability distribution (let's say Gaussian)?
And if you cannot answer this, why are you even fit to have that argument with me?
socrates856 6 months ago
@socrates856 ""regression to the mean" is an actual statistical behavior. But it is being misused."
What about the theory of genetic regression? Is it bunk?
.
"Can you see a difference if both have the same probability distribution"
Please clarify.
hitssquad 6 months ago
@hitssquad I'm clear. Do you know what it means to have two means and two probability distributions with them. Do you understand that these two are enough to compare statements about them? And if you understand 'regression to the mean" you would understand precisely what I am asking here. So do you understand the statistical arguments, or are you just yet another racist who pretends to know to defend his position?
socrates856 6 months ago
@socrates856 "I'm clear."
Why are you dodging the question?: "What about the theory of genetic regression? Is it bunk?"
hitssquad 6 months ago
@hitssquad See you accuse me of what you are doing. I asked you questions. You dodge them by asking a counter-question. But you don't even know that I already gave you the recipe to answer your very own question. Two means, plug in factors you want to investigate, check if it is statistically distinguishable. Done.
But you don't know the first thing of what you are talking about. So let me answer the question I asked of you: No, you are not fit to have this argument.
socrates856 6 months ago
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@socrates856 "you accuse me of what you are doing."
Why are you dodging the question?: "What about the theory of genetic regression? Is it bunk?"
hitssquad 6 months ago
@socrates856 "I won't hold back when they indeed bend the facts"
Nor should anyone else. Hope my vibe there didn't even remotely suggest that a bending of facts should be ignored for the sake of the fact bender's tendency to feel like christ on a stick. So just to clarify: I was only targeting the sometimes exaggerated psychoanalysis & personality games anti-racists subject "racialists" to, not the cold hard facts.
BTW great job deconstructing that debate bit in your last video. Solid info.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
6:10 "Would it not be more goal-oriented to divide individuals"
Not necessarily, because a good individual from a bad population group will tend to:
1. test better than he actually is.
2. make up for his good traits with equally bad traits.
3. Have children who regress to his native population mean.
.
There might be benefits from periodic scientifically-controlled hybridization, however. This isn't the same thing as continuous, uncontrolled hybridization.
hitssquad 6 months ago
@hitssquad
1. Test better than he really is: If so, the error lies not with the concept but the method of testing at hand, correctable through trial & error.
2. make up for his good traits with equally bad traits: The individuals I'm referring to would be a net positive in the exact same manner any other individual is. Do you deny that the possibility of the existence of any non-white "net positive" individuals?
3. Have children who regress to his native population mean: Answered in video: SD.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan "children who regress to his native population mean: Answered in video: SD."
You have a video called "SD"? I looked and I couldn't find any videos by you called "SD".
hitssquad 6 months ago
@hitssquad "You have a video called "SD"?"
No, I was low on space so I shortened it instead of just posting another comment. What I meant to say is that it's answered in this video, and "SD" was short for "Social Darwinism" trimming out the few potential victims of harshly regressive biological outcomes. I'm operating under the assumption that the community at hand wouldn't dish out any form of gov't welfare to the weakest, who'd thus be left to the whims of dicey charity & ultimately dissipate
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan "I'm operating under the assumption that the community at hand wouldn't dish out any form of gov't welfare to the weakest"
So you're assuming that immigrants and their descendants would never be allowed to vote? One principal assumption of racial segregationists is that voting patterns are affected by genetics. Did you know that?
hitssquad 5 months ago
@hitssquad "you're assuming that immigrants and their descendants would never be allowed to vote"
I don't see how you could possibly jump to voting when all I said was that welfare (as in, gov't cheese, forced redistribution of wealth) itself would be off limits & not subject to majority vote under the reformed Constitution. It would be a "pull yourself by your bootstraps" society. I've never run into a single separatist who endorses taxation as a means to anything aside from minarchist basics.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan "I don't see how you could possibly jump to voting"
A society that has adopted certain policies -- for example Social Darwinist policies -- might be susceptible, as the United States is, to having those policies voted out.
.
"& not subject to majority vote under the reformed Constitution."
That would be quite a change. Do you see that fundamental change in the constitution as politically possible right now with America already voting in the opposite direction?
hitssquad 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan "& not subject to majority vote under the reformed Constitution. It would be a "pull yourself by your bootstraps" society."
So, you believe that Marxists would happily go along with being ruled by a piece of paper that told them they had to, by law, live as Social Darwinists? You believe that people can be ruled by pieces of paper? Where has this ever happened in history?
hitssquad 5 months ago
Why on earth are you under the impression that this new society would be composed of Marxists, let alone have Marxists dominate the electorate? It was already explained that the thought experiment applies solely to land that is currently uninhabited. Can you point to any Marxist who anxiously awaits the return of segregation so to willingly move there & live among separatist minded individuals? Had this been about forcefully re-segregating already populated areas, the Marxist effect would arise.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan "Can you point to any Marxist who anxiously awaits the return of segregation so to willingly move there & live among separatist minded individuals?"
Yes. As Michael Moore pointed out upon the election of Obama, the campaign to flood the United States -- a formerly free-market nation -- with collectivists can now be declared a success as they have shifted the politics of America toward socialist.
.
Also: en. wikipedia. org/wiki/Trotskyism#International_revolution
hitssquad 5 months ago
"The revolution, Trotsky argued, must quickly spread to capitalist countries, bringing about a socialist revolution which must spread worldwide."
hitssquad 5 months ago
Had to run out yesterday before making another point: Many of these "socialist" reforms you attribute to Marxists/minorities, occurred under FDR... decades before blacks even obtained full voting rights (or if you prefer: before blacks chose to fully exercise them) & well before America faced her immigration upheaval. It was the primarily white, American working class; born & bred in the vicinity of small gov't codes, whose collective unsatisfactory experience of adhering to those codes... (1/2)
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
(2/2)
...Whose collective poor experience in adhering to those principles in the workplace led them to realization that collective action was necessary, & so began the formation of the strongest middle class in history. "Marxists" & colored folk weren't the cause of it. The cause was robber baron capitalism. Whether you agree with them or not, the white majority felt exploited & resorted to mass labor protests. If you fear it reoccurring in a reformed state, no amount of "white only" will help.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
Socialism = Means of production mutually controlled by workers. The US economy still operates as a private animal for the primary purpose of profit. It barely even passes for a mixed economy.
And are you seriously implying, by way of Moore's buffoonery, that Marxists are secretly conspiring to infiltrate any & all newly formed non-interventionist communities, because people voted Obama in 08? Obama. The rich man's wet dream Obama? That Obama? Hell will freeze over before the US turns socialist.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan "Many of these "socialist" reforms you attribute to Marxists/minorities, occurred under FDR"
Yes: oilgeopolitics. net/History/New_Deal/new_deal. html "A second, and increasingly influential faction of inner circle around FDR grouped around Harvard Law School Professor Felix Frankfurter, and his close friend, Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. The Frankfurter group overlapped the Tugwell central planning faction, around their mutual hostility to banking and finance.
hitssquad 5 months ago
"Frankfurter turned increasingly towards a socialist outlook, without using the word, during a winter spent in England in 1933-1934 where his earlier friendship with London School of Economics Marxist economics professor, Harold Laski deepened. Laski, the inspiration for Labour Party nationalization of coal, steel and other industry after the war as well as of the Beveridge Plan creating the British postwar Welfare State, enjoyed regular access to FDR whenever he visited Washington in the
hitssquad 5 months ago
"mid-1930's which was often. While in London that winter, Frankfurter also cultivated a friendship with economist John Maynard Keynes, recruiting Keynes to advise the New Deal on recovery.
Frankfurter selected key people to staff the New Deal bureaucracy, thus securing his influence on evolution of regulatory and other New Deal policy implementation. His students from Harvard included Benjamin Cohen, Tommy Corcoran, James Landis, and others. Frankfurter's outlook was embodied in the phrase,
hitssquad 5 months ago
"social engineering, with the Federal government as regulator. In March 1935 Frankfurter convinced FDR to appoint Frankfurter's law student and close friend, Thomas Corcoran, to be FDR's White House adviser, giving Frankfurter far more hands-on ability to direct priorities for the President based on Frankfurter's personal agenda, an agenda consistently hostile to business."
hitssquad 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan "Marxists" & colored folk weren't the cause of it."
Recently, a new drop in economic freedom has occurred in the US: heritage. org/index/ranking
The US used to rank above Canada. Over the course of the Obama administration, its ranking has steadily dropped below Canada's to where it is now: 9th vs. Canada's 6th place ranking.
hitssquad 5 months ago
@hitssquad "History/New_Deal"
This citation holds no relevance to the crux behind my original point. So again, fact: John Lewis labor strikes & FDR's landslide victory in 1936 were *not* the product of an electorate/workforce infiltrated by Marxists/minorities, but instead white Americans, born & bred.
This exchange began over your concern about my assertion pertaining to Social Darwinism taking effect due to lack of gov't redistribution, when such can also occur in a white dominated society.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@hitssquad
Therefore your dismissal of the points behind my entire "individual merit based segregation" vs. "broadness of race based segregation" evaluation holds no water. Separatists generally aren't in favor of welfare states, & it's beyond conspiratorial to suggest that individuals who do have access to gov't welfare & who are repulsed by the mere concept of separatism, would still somehow end up infiltrating white only societies & shaping elections, just to fuck some shit up for kicks.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
4:50 "what do we generally mean when we say "better society"? [...] what factors [...] less crime, less unemployment, less welfare leeches, less violence, less domestic abuse, less substance abuse, higher IQ average, etc., all that good stuff."
Why don't you simply use the quality of human condition index (QHC) or the Human Development Index (HDI)?: en. wikipedia. org/wiki/ IQ_and_Global_Inequality#National_IQ_and_QHC_values
hitssquad 6 months ago
@hitssquad Does IQ change with different political environments?
Just curious.
IranianAtheism 6 months ago
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@IranianAtheism "Does IQ change with different political environments?"
Please clarify.
hitssquad 6 months ago
Nice video.
TomValedro 6 months ago
Be careful what you ask for. The racialist community could be highly successful. Just look at the Japanese, they are not the most racially tolerant people, but they've done well for themselves.
DKshad0w 6 months ago
@DKshad0w There are a number of things that distinguish the Japanese economy from many western nations. Post war reconstruction & USA subsidy to undercut the influence of the left, positive attitude to technological & organizational progress from Meiji onwards, obscene pressure to succeed & a work ethic putting Calvinism to shame.
kommissarw 6 months ago
Individual screening cant do the job.
It is counterproductive ,costly and time consuming.
You can have though,screening for immigration purposes on the bases of culture and nationality with indicators the performance of existing immigrant communities.
Its obvious from social studies, that when you opt instead of Indians or Chinese, for people of Muslim background or African ancestry, you opt for an explosion of crime, antisocial behaviors, social and ethic conflicts ,
...
AmetReloads 6 months ago
@AmetReloads ... high dependency on welfare, and radical native reactions to the above.
Political instability leads to nationalism/isolationism, change of the political balances/priorities & greater restrictions.
Not to screen who is a better candidate for immigration purposes,is discrimination against those that do fulfill the objective criteria and discriminating against natives with policies that dont promote their best interests,which is the ultimate criteria for immigration.
AmetReloads 6 months ago
@AmetReloads "counterproductive ,costly and time consuming"
So is educating children, but a mere snippet away from short-term thinking is enough to glean the net-benefit at play. Same goes for any given firm's hiring practices. The interview process along with the gathering of qualifications & background checks is costly & grating, but to avoid it is to sign the firm's death warrant. Perfectly applicable to societies; especially ones in early stages of development. Qualify the sum of all parts.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
The "better society" the segregationists want is a mirror reflecting only their own "perfection." Removing problems of crime, poverty, and ignorance from the larger society is an excuse to this narcisstic end, self-deluding in its superficial plausibility. Proof is the toleration of such behavior when commited by one's "own."
TheAzov 6 months ago
Sup ABM this is the last video on this channel? what was the purpose of this one? and what other channels you have?
Ramiromasters 6 months ago
You think you have a pretty good argument but no one has been able to rebutt fringe's argument of "uhhh uhh IQ is a test that people take".
arcaneminded 6 months ago
Face tracking is racist, and I'm seasick. Good points against segregation. I'm was left wandering why anti-natalists always seem to present this false dichotomy of anti vs pro natalism. As we know this is a tactic of segregation that you touch on. That is to say that the argument is presented as if their are no shades of grey. Personally, the words are meaningless to me, outside of propaganda sound bytes, and use in reference.
ramshaka 6 months ago
@ramshaka "as if their are no shades of grey"
There are no shades of gray when it comes to slavery, and the same can be said for AntiNatalism. Either you endorse the creation of unnecessary need for DNA's sake, or you condemn it. Being in the middle is like favoring the US circa 1865-1963, after slavery but before the Civil Rights Act. The only people who call themselves middle grounders when it comes to AN, are people concerned with overpopulation, which is a totally different subject from AN.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan All things bear shades of grey, one could compare servitude in any form to slavery, hell one could even make the argument with some success that the modern underclass is in slavery, or at least the prison system. Things are never Black and White, that's the mark of a racist, or a bigot, and just a flat out dishonest political tactic. Just not being a anti does not equate to pro, in any case regardless, all things are relative.
ramshaka 6 months ago
@ramshaka "Things are never Black and White, that's the mark of a racist, or a bigot, and just a flat out dishonest political tactic"
The only dishonesty stems from ongoing attempts to obfuscate the need equation & basic language to the point where the most important conversation human beings can possibly have, cannot take place in any concrete fashion. Suggesting, though heated rhetoric, that one is a racist/bigot for boldly asserting "slavery is bad" is your political shyster move, not mine.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan "obfuscate"--I really like that word, added to vocabulary TY.
"Suggesting, though heated rhetoric"--??? I thought I was being clear and rational, certainly wasn't going for heated.
"your political shyster move, not mine"-- look all I said was all things are nuanced and relative not 1 vs 1. I fail to see the "shysterarian" rhetoric. However, false dichotomy is a well known, and documented tactic of the shyster. I'm just pointing these things out, no need to get excited.
ramshaka 6 months ago
"I fail to see the "shysterarian" rhetoric"
"Things are never Black and White, that's the mark of a racist, or a bigot, and just a flat out dishonest political tactic"
You called *me* all these things. I freely admit that the human race has gathered a substantial repertoire of clear-cut data (Darwin, Einstein, Mendel) with which we can draw solid conclusions about our role, or lack thereof, pertaining to reproduction. Seeing as we're not on a rescue mission, procreation is the cause, not cure.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan If you interpreted my statements as a direct implication to you personally, I apologize, that however, doesn't excuse the black and white rhetoric, which is what I intended to attack.
"procreation is the cause, not cure"
I see and understand what your saying and I concur, that in no way makes me an antinatalist. While I feel that the antinatialist logic can be said to be sound, its far from a rational idea to put into practice. (cont)
ramshaka 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan The fact that human growth rate at any level is unsustainable is a fact. Benatarian equations aside. One need only calculate any growth rate across any number or years to see the exponential rise in demand that would devour the earth. However, I feel that highly irrational antinatalist philosophy detracts from the facts, and real situation, rather than offer any aid or solace. (end)
ramshaka 6 months ago
@ramshaka "highly irrational antinatalist philosophy detracts from the facts"
What facts would those be?
"and real situation, rather than offer any aid or solace"
The evident lack of probability of AN gaining any sort of ground or even a slight measure of political weight, is an argument for the hopelessness & futility of AN, not the irrationality of AN. I agree that it is a fruitless endeavor. This is partly why I rarely ever advocate it in videos. But it doesn't undo the rationale behind it
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Your technically right that the futility or hopelessness of AN to gain traction is not, inherently irrational. However, the thought process that mindlessly tacks on a AN philosophy to a real problem unnecessarily is irrational. ie. I wouldn't have a problem calling myself AN where it just defined as the lack of support of free reign rampant reproduction. That said, now the term has the weight of typically irrational emotional, highly controversial philosophy upon it.
ramshaka 5 months ago
Comment removed
ramshaka 5 months ago
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@AntiBullshitMan Here's a good set of videos on the facts, I'm referring to. Just Youtube search: The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See (part 1 of 8)
ramshaka 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Also, I should point out that anti-natalism as it relates to the Benatarian equation put into action, along side probability, or more specifically probability of blighted birth as it relates to race, class, or whatever. Would be the epitome of racism, or bigotry in general. However, I do suppose the topic is an easy "gotcha" for the "natalist", and I don't presume you hold such thoughts, but such thoughts do follow logically, and I'd be remiss to not point them out.
ramshaka 6 months ago
@ramshaka "more specifically probability of blighted birth as it relates to race, class, or whatever. Would be the epitome of racism, or bigotry in general"
Please point me to the specific videos on AN that you've watched from proponents of AN which have led you to this bizarre conclusion. You can also contextually quote Benetar if that's preferable. I haven't read anything from him, though I remain confident that you've misinterpreted something somewhere somehow. So, bring on the vids/quote.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan No need for Quotes, I'm not contesting what any AN is saying here, just pointing out that, an irrational, or bizarre, side effect that a mass adoption of AN would undoubtedly exhibit, as evidenced by the fact that the people whom posses the train of thought that your addressing this video to,do exist. Which is why I quickly differ to the disclaimer as well, and the only conclusion that I make, that such things would follow logically.
ramshaka 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan No shades of gray? Need I remind you that there is such a thing as nonchalance? It's entirely possible to not carry any opinion whatsoever on almost any given subject, especially if it doesn't touch directly upon your own personal life.
TheLittleTpot 6 months ago
@TheLittleTpot "It's entirely possible to not carry any opinion whatsoever on almost any given subject, especially if it doesn't touch directly upon your own personal life"
Which has nothing to do with the concept of a human brain's ability to comprehend stone-cold reality & with it draw rational conclusions about the best way to reduce suffering. If you don't value the reduction of suffering to begin with, then sadly you & I have little to discuss, as I'm motivated by little else.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Ability is irrelevant. I was merely demonstrating that you can find shades of gray in any subject of discussion. It's a philosophical subject, which I should probably have been a bit clearer in pointing out.
And on the contrary, I feel that we could probably have a very delightful discussion, as I do see merit and good will in your claim to be motivated almost solely by the thought of decreasing suffering, even if your words are somewhat self-righteous.
TheLittleTpot 6 months ago
@TheLittleTpot
The fact that we will always find certain truths illusive & out of our grasp is meritorious only when they're qualified for in the context of a few missing puzzle pieces without which the entire image my puzzle displays is deemed as unrecognizable.
I did sound a bit self-righteous, but I get a bit sloppy in my phrasing after receiving almost 100 comments in less than 48 hrs. I'm well aware there are others who are far more motivated to alleviate suffering than I happen to be.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Still, it's obvious that we put priority on entirely differing subjects and that you're not here for a philosophy debate so I will not waste your time any further.
TheLittleTpot 6 months ago
"you're not here for a philosophy debate"
Yes I am. I'm saying we don't need to place a magnifying glass next to every acre of the moon to declare it's not made of cheese. There are plenty of people who deliberately go out of their way to muddy even the most basic truths, out of what is in my view, their dislike of where truth generally points. It's vital to note.
"so I will not waste your time any further"
It's no waste.
"I feel that we could probably have a very delightful discussion" - ?
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@ramshaka Could you clarify what you mean by "face tracking".
captwasabi 6 months ago
@captwasabi Its just a joke, referring to the swimming camera. Google "HP computers are racist" that will lead you to the reference of the joke, and a funny video to boot.
ramshaka 6 months ago
@ramshaka Ok cause I was confused as hell. I knew that face tracking was the ability for cameras to detect faces and track them but I thought perhaps you were referring to the use of facial recognition software. Thanks for clarifying.
captwasabi 6 months ago
@captwasabi "what you mean by "face tracking""
The camera is automatically tracking his face. Notice how the camera is panning without anyone touching it.
hitssquad 6 months ago
dont hate on Kansas, my friend
Grace88Anderson 6 months ago
@Grace88Anderson
Spur of the moment... can't help but to instinctively think of it as the creationist capital of the Western world.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Ouch on Kansas
whedonfreak976 6 months ago
Good arguments. Sadly those who need to understand your content have probably blocked their ears and started mumbling "Anti Racist is Anti white" over and over till the video finished. Still it's worth doing. If someone is on the fence you may have some sway.
insightnew 6 months ago
@insightnew
They can't do the "anti racist = anti white" thing. Not after I dedicated the first 5-10 minutes of the video to that particular persecution complex. They can't possibly ignore all that...
Maybe I'm being optimistic.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
i em someone who feels the full effects of this where i live / i feel like i can't get out of here when i know thats what i really need or that what i need is out there / my city,town is very behind on making sure there is enough work or jobs 2 give someone the option 2 make there life better when i em well equiped 2 do so / i feel like i em being kept somewhere that i know i will not create life in i will continue 2 refuse till i can find that 1 way out & its sad when i could of avoided it
idietoskate 6 months ago
Good grief, man. It takes you 10 minutes to get to the point.
But some good points after the 10 minute mark.
SBRslacker00 6 months ago
@SBRslacker00
No no, there were points from the get go. Had I not methodically addressed the PC bullshit along with the "anti-this = anti-that" mantra, I'd have ended up having to put up with it in text, judging by seemingly every other comment section on this subject.
When you don't block dense knee-jerkers, you can't just springboard into the main part of a video. Especially a video like this one, that carries all sorts of hang-ups. I have 2+ years experience with this shit, so I know.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
The horrid irony of this that literally gives me anxiety attacks is that people like them have CAUSED this situation. Also, it's amazing how many people like this there are in all walks of life that are contributing to maintaining the status quo of marginalization of minority groups. Fuckers.
boobootoob 6 months ago
It's been proven that "all that good stuff" can happen with environmental factors. I totally agree in not giving the separatists any more fuel for their "you're PC" fire. But one- they are foaming at the mouth racists that focus on one in particular on one country (or two).They've already said they don't want to separate people by IQ, and that even though FE conceded on the race being a social construct thing, the others think Americans with African decent are irredeemable due to ancestry.
boobootoob 6 months ago
2. then the circular reasoning sets in, because we all know that there are thousands maybe millions of AA all smarter than these boobs. What they say is it "averages out"...so they insist on grouping them into teams, like FE's football analogy and saying, well you could have a couple players with outstanding abilities, but the other team is filled with players all with better stats than yours, then your abilities wash out. They group them this way even against what science says due to racism.
boobootoob 6 months ago
@boobootoob "all that good stuff" can happen with environmental factors"
No contention from me. The video is meant to demonstrate how the hereditarian premise, regardless of validity/invalidity, still doesn't justify segregation as the rational conclusion. I had to somewhat placate it in order to illustrate the point.
I'd be more motivated to argue the ins & outs of the IQ studies, but the recent "peer reviewed = appeal to authority" arguments killed whatever tiny bit of spirit I had left.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Yeah that was weird especially since the first part SH used Rushton and mentioned a study he did that went counter to his own beliefs so he left it out of his future analysis. FE even used Rushton, of course then called him into question, but FE said "appeal to authority" but his whole position was based a couple of studies. I think FE was just talking out his ass, he did that a couple of times. I have analyzed the first half of that debate over and over, I'm on the second half.
boobootoob 6 months ago
@boobootoob
Yeah I saw your 1st analysis vid. Found your meticulous detective-like approach of examining a blog tv debate on racism in the year 2011, just a little hilarious.
Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea for a video series... but you gotta admit it has an element of derp humor to it.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
What about the argument from diversity? That races are unique expressions of humanity, with phenotypes which should be preserved because they are inherently valuable? A similar argument is made all the time for imposing human intervention to save endangered species from going exinct, and likewise, it seems intuitively right to maintain pedigrees of dogs and not simply allow them to all intermix into mongrels.
CitizenOccidens 6 months ago
@CitizenOccidens
The argument from diversity rests on subjective mush. Much like a pretty sunset, it holds no credibility with me or anyone else capable of objective ethical analysis. I also don't much care about endangered species, being an AN & all.
Individuals whose tax dollars went into enhancing the district they reside in, shouldn't be forced to leave that district all because some superficial dolts think it's crucial to preserve the triviality of blond hair / blue eyes aesthetics.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@CitizenOccidens Can I just thank you for the way you made this video? You come across as really trying to understand the opposing position (which almost no one I've spoken to does), and you also seem to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, and generally I haven't heard any bullshit ad homs or fallacies from you. I might not agree with you on some things, but if you want to change people's minds, you're going about it in exactly the right way.
CitizenOccidens 6 months ago
@CitizenOccidens
For the record I'm mostly abstaining from ad homs & giving the people the benefit of doubt because YT has been overflowing with the polar opposite approach over the last year, so anything else would amount to a giant cliche on my part. It has nothing to do with me being under the impression that merely insulting people makes any other point in my video invalid. I'm just tired of all the non-stop bickering on here. Hostility should be reserved for special occasions, not 24/7.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
they seem to be arguing the soft end, mostly. there are even some people who call themselves racial realists who, as you say, may well have come to those conclusions from completely benign and well intentioned reasonings. you dont have to be a racist to be wrong about this stuff.
SkidRowRadio 6 months ago
first rule of genetics; spread the jeans apart.. no but seriously, they seem to largely be arguing from nature. and these are atheists. another example of the one less god dynamic not being extended to the dna molecule, me thinks?
the "people would naturally segregate..." argument is ridiculous. what, are we not supposed to be above those kinds of primeval presumptions? can our intelligence not extend to acceptance of and constructive interaction with any person, regardless of skin tone?
SkidRowRadio 6 months ago
The kids grown up in the segregated areas would say "FU, I'm out of here"?
I'm not so sure... :/ Some might, some might not.
I'm a pronatalist, but I don't believe opinions are hereditary. I do believe there are statistical truths that while not absolute, might exist in a large enough population. It's not hard to imagine a society where certain individuals brought up to believe their race was superior would emphasize that to themselves to forget their own failings.
Snagabott 6 months ago
@Snagabott "It's not hard to imagine a society where certain individuals brought up to believe their race was superior would emphasize that to themselves"
It simply wouldn't fly in the digital age. And I'll just stress that according to most 40-50 year olds I know, it didn't even fly half a century ago. Adjust that for alternative media & you'd be left with a tiny percentage of kids gullible enough to never question ma n' pa.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan OK, I just think it's not a matter of information. Peoples beliefs are formed by what is convenient much more than critical examination of evidence. For example, just take a look at some of the countless subcultures here on YT, who cluster around each other to pat each others backs and confirm their biases, from 9/11-truthers to commies to antinatalists to religious denominations of all kinds - all of which hold the absolute truth and see all unbelievers as deluded/suspect.
Snagabott 6 months ago
"to antinatalists"
Who are correct until proven otherwise by a rational counterargument, instead of dismissive "that's subjective" non-starters, conveniently applied by natalists to ethical arguments they dislike, but not to a myriad of other ethical arguments for rape etc, for which they'll gladly impose stiff laws despite the supposed weight of the subjectivity non-starter.
As for your overall point; I did address the inverse effect after the battery ran out. Saving it for the next video.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Even if people accept that Antinatalism is a subjective philosophy....the evidence of pain and suffering does not mean that antinatalists are instantly refuted, because one person out of one hundred has enjoyed their existence on Earth. I am still an antinatalist despite being convinced by wisemonkey888 and Karl Popper's anti-pseudo empiricism,,,, which convinced me that antinatalism is a subjective philosophy. Good video here by the way sir.
Metalheadtill1die 6 months ago
@ABM The proposition "creating life is wrong" no more "correct until proven wrong" than "there is a god" or "it was an inside job".
Pointing out inherent subjectivity is a valid argument if the opponent tries to weasel in arguments from outside agreed standards. Usually one starts from a common, though subjective, ground (eg "suffering is a bad experience") to attempt to show validity of a proposition. But you can't then secretly leave that ground to weasel in support when you hit a wall.
Snagabott 6 months ago
@Snagabott
The onus does not fall on the slave to prove why his enslavement is wrong. The onus does not fall on the victim of a drunk driver to prove that drunk driving is wrong. The burden lies with those who commit the reckless act, to explain why their behavior was necessary/justified. A weasel could not in any other conversation justify, due to a lack of formula, an excuse to roll dice & burden others by imposing on them something they never asked for, because the weasel just felt like it.
AntiBullshitMan 6 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Although addressed to Snagabott, I'll jump in: is the result - birth = to slavery or getting creamed by a drunk? Most will not agree as they see a qualitative difference. Procreation has never been criminalized for any reason outside the Third Reich. Rightly or wrongly AN bears the burden of old eugenics.
TheAzov 6 months ago
@TheAzov "Most will not agree as they see a qualitative difference"
There are people in this world who'd rather eat literal shit than die of starvation. There are people who will not only be entertained by, but live for, the next American Idol season. These opinions of qualitative difference are worth nothing to me. Address the rolling of dice with other people's welfare & essentially entering them in a lottery where endless variations of snake eyes are a possibility & sometimes an inescapably.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan Most won't agree with the philosophic basis for AN, either. There was an old Tin Pan Alley song from the 1910s (remember it well) "Life is just a lottery- you take a chance," etc. The existentialism is nothing new. But at the end of the day most, even in the song, choose existence with its uncertainties to the certainty of death.
TheAzov 5 months ago
You're making it circular. You're also bordering on ad populum. In some areas, this strategy is not to be fully undermined. When it comes to AN though, to apply it is to ignore the unintelligent forces behind what drives people to arrive at such conclusions in the 1st place. I know you don't have reverence for crude DNA molecules that own us, just as you don't with crude aspirations most people have to spiritually connect with their creator. It's an opinion derived from ego/biology, not merit.
AntiBullshitMan 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan People do have genetically coded aspirations for physical & psychological connection as do all other mammals. This commonality is what makes said ad populum. Earth's ecosystem is like a human body & we're the cookies & candy. In small amounts we taste sweet. Too many of us is toxic & leads to morbid obesity, diabetes, & premature death. While it's true the earth is approaching morbidity in overpopulated life, does that negate the original sweetness that led to addiction?
TheAzov 5 months ago
@AntiBullshitMan This is a slave that can get up, unscathed, from under the car and leave his master at any time. It might be an imposition, but it's a 100% reversible one - just swallow some pills and go to sleep. Happens all the time - no need to fight instincts.
Even you, ABM, roll those dice whenever you interact with others - try though we might, we can never put the probability of impacting others negatively to zero. If nothing justifies risk to others, suicide is mandated.
Snagabott 6 months ago