economic textbooks in school don't even mention austrian economics unfortunately. all they fucking talk about is the failed keynesian system and theyre still trying to salvage it.
“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks . . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered . . . The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Debate Over The Re-charter Of The Bank Bill, 1809
Krugman: "First question, 'Is there going to be a recession?' Let me say with great certainty, I don't know. Nobody knows."
It could only have been pure arrogance to suggest that nobody knew just because he didn't know. Krugman, if you don't know, have you ever thought about stepping aside for people who know?
Our economists, our elected representatives, and ourselves flounder about in a sea of "solutions" because we simply have not identified the real problem, usury interest. Mike Montagne says he presented his mathematically perfected economy MPE to Reagan:
@MrEconomics101 And now, we're in the Long-Run. Keynes, himself, would have clarified the limits to his theory had he lived longer. History will look back on the post war monetary policy with disbelief. Glad we could give them an example of what not to do. Too bad we have to live through this demonstration.
@gold95 Not only do they still have listeners, they seem utterly immune from criticism.
Krugman still has his New York Times column, where he gets to constantly pretend that more intervention and more money printing is what will save the day.
1. Remove the federal income tax COMPLETELY, this takes away welfare and makes companies compete for providing service, lowering costs and raising quality. This also makes it so that you pay for yourself, which fixes the illegal immigration problem. This also takes away huge government salaries so only people who actually want change run.
2. End the Fed, reestablish the gold standard, this will ensure ACTUAL money instead of imaginary money. Why does roman money
@d3ltadrive still have value today, because it was actual money. Today's money will have no value when it collapses because it is meaningless. I am for paper money representing a certain amount of gold and silver because of the hassle of using physical gold, but not imaginary money.
3 End corporatism. Combine ownership and operation so that no one can buy out a company in secret by buying out their shares.
4 End all Gov interference, this makes companies do risky things that are detrimental
Keynesian economics pulled the US out of a depretion and prevented another from happeneing (although at the cost of creating a recession), Friedmanism and the other Libertarian ideals caused a depretion and a recession. Keynesian economics was so sucessful in the US that governments in western Europe copied it, Friedmanism has always needed an army to keep itself in place. Keynesian economics say the largest industrial growth in US history, Friedmanism saw that same industry shipped to China.
@dave19941000 Keynesian economics just doesn't work u cn't argue the fact that Austrian is a better tool to predict market conditions The current 1 man show we have going on is a joke Economics is similar to physics It has its own laws that we are still trying to understand Predicting market conditions has been a challenge since the Renaissance. Austrian may not be perfect, but it sure beats a system where you lose more than 95% of the purchasing power in 100yrs Econ cycles r less harsh w/Aust
@papeeboy Economics is not a pure science like physics, it is a social science, which means it does not have laws becaue they can, and do, change. Friedmans policies turned Chile from a 1st world to a 3ed world economy in 3 years flat, turned Argentina into a nation living in fear, brought poverty in Russia to 40% (higher then it ever was under Soviet rule) and so much more. No system is perfect, but to say Austrian is better is to ignore all the results of its use in practice.
@dave19941000 If you are referring to the Great Depression you are wrong. U.S. entrance into WWII provided the impetus needed for a resurgence in economic activity. Keynesian economics had little to do with it given the strong capitalistic ideals which were prevalent. Such being the simple, "I have a product that you want, you have one that I want, we shall exchange." The continued Keynesian economics and further involvement of the government lead to the stagflation era in the 70s.
Ben Bernanke is not a Keynesian, Keynesians are very big on government intervention in the economy Bernanke most certainly is not. Ben Bernanke is more of a follower of Friedman, he only intervened when he had no choice and at the last possible moment, long after any Keynesian would have pushed the button.
@Siind he probably converted to keynesianism, because friedman wouldn't have blamed the markets, and friedman never would've pumped such a huge ton of money into the economy. Also, quantitative easing is pretty keynesian of him.
In the end, Fabian Socialists don't really want to own it if they can control it, all they need to control it is a financial crisis that allows them to change laws, inflate the currency, and buy stock in corporations. Whether you call it nationalizing an industry or corporate fascism, the result is the same--the death of freedom and private property rights, this is the Fabian Socialists endgame.
Keynesianism, or interventionism, or socialism, is contrary to nearly every aspect of what our Constitution was founded on. Today, Keynesianism is called interventionism. It is where the government itself gets involved in the economic sphere and passes laws that destroy what we would call sound, basic economics. And what we had with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the whole deal of going now into debt by trillions is nothing more or nothing less than Fabian, Keynesian economic philosophy.
Keynesian economics can be recognized by it's values that are contrary to much of what makes for healthy financial living for individuals or nations -- love of debt and hatred of savings, The wholesale implementation of this idea caused the Great Depression. John Maynard Keynes was a socialist and a member of the British Fabian Society. Fabianism dovetails well with corporate fascism, the merging of government and big business.
And we still have this idiot as the Fed chairman? Just goes to show how ignorant most Americans are, and how the ones that "think" they know whats going on just swallow everything CNBC, CNN, and the mainstream news run unquestionably.
This video makes me want to slap the shit out of half of these economists. I hope they have fun starving in the next decade because they are going to be unemployable.
If the corporations wont spend and the people cant spend the government must spend! You can take the trickle down approach(austrian economics)and you are right it will eventually right itself. but after how many people are disinfranchised and starved to death.It worked for FDR no matter how you argue it extended the depression.And Schiff IS a facsist douchebag.
It's no question Ron Paul can win the Presidency, but can he win the Republican nomination? Unfortunately a good chunk of registered Republicans won't vote for Dr. Paul in their state's primaries, and most states have closed primaries. So if you want Dr. Paul to be a Presidential candidate, register Republican(even if you hate Republican's or belong to another party) and vote for Ron Paul in your state's Republican primaries. You can always switch later.
Keynesian economics has taken over our economy and our academic institutions, we have no hope unless you share this video - email all of your friends and share it on facebook and encourage them to vote for Ron Paul.
How do these lamestream economists have any credibility whatsoever?!! They should go kill themselves or at least resign and find real jobs. Liars and frauds.
WHY ISN'T RON PAUL THE FED CHAIRMAN. THESE PECKER WOODS GOT KNOCKED UPSIDE THE HEAD "OH WHAT HAPPENED". I WOULD LOVE TO SHOW THEM THIS VIDEO AND SEE THEIR REACTION TODAY.
Arthur Laffer has always been a joke, but he's not a keynsian, nor is Bernanke, more an advocate of Friedman and Rand. A product of the Chicago school of economics (trickle down). But thank you Peter for calling it like it is. Just like Nouriel Roubini (Dr Doom)
When you vote, don't look at the R or D, don't look at "conservative" or "progressive" labels, look at whether the candidate is a Keynesian or an Austrian.
All Keynesians should be thrown out of office. Quite a few should be charged with treason.
Keynsianism and monetarism got us into this mess. The idea that you cant have deflation, economic growth, and low unemployment simultaneously is absurd. Take, cars, planes, TVs they have all decreased in real costs as a result of increase in productivity, thus real income has increased, demand increases, firms hire more labour, so we have economic growth, deflation and higher employment!! You can only borrow your way out of debt, if the debt is to increase ability to pay back debt!!
Absolutely hilarious how wrong these keynesians were. Whenever idiots like Laffer or Bernanke speak, simply do the opposite of what they say. You are pretty much guarenteed profit.
The position Bernanke took during the bubble is not very Keynesian. The basis of true Keynesian economy is to stabilize growth. This would mean injecting money into the economy during lows in order to minimize stagnation and restricting the supply of money during good times in order to stop bubbles from forming and pay off govt. debt. During the 2000s the fed did quite the opposite of what i believe Keynes would have done himself.
@Derpman123 Thanks for being intelligent to write what you did. I was just starting to think that no one on youtube understands economics. Hell, the current collapse is actually caused (at least partially) by Austrian type thinking. Deregulation of banks (completely Austrian) is what allowed the mortgage backed securities to be sold the way they were and the Bush/Regan tax cuts are what caused the massive concentration of wealth that lead to the bubble/collapse. (Keynes wrote/warned of this)
boy am no expert in economy, but is seems to me if you consume more than you produce and have to constantly borrow money to cover your expenses, you will be screwed in the long run. Sooner or later you will crash... but what do I know...
@AgrivatedKillah The so called experts screwed us up, lending money to people who can't pay, selling financial product they have no clue about, making bets on bets on stuff that does not exists, printing money out of thin air and hopping it will fix things...ultimately the main concepts of economy are fairly simple, you can only increase you wealth if you produce more than you consume, this applies to individual as well as to nations, If I am wrong please tell me where I am wrong specefically...
@atraldreams "even less predictive power than mainstream economics"
The lie in that is that the Austrians loudly proclaim that predicting a particular event at a particular time is impossible, because human action is too complex.
It is possible to "predict" general events, such as "if you print money like it's going out of style, the following will happen".
But the "mainstream" liars use mathematics to increase their model's "accuracy", but the models are false so they're always wrong.
@CurtHowland Also, there is Somaliland in the North, while not being internationally recognized as its own state, is the only part of Somalia with a central government. The other part of the country is now broken up into warlords and in the absence of government people have reverted back to customary laws. It's probably the only anarcho-capitalist state currently in existence- a non fiat currency is in use, people still have property, etc.
@beamla I believe the fundamental element here is "people have reverted back to customary laws".
When not imposed upon, the people do not start eating each other. They have rules of conduct, shared values, a "society", that exists separate from and independent of any central govt.
@CurtHowland I agree. I don't have a problem with the idea of people freely coming together to collectively run their own show etc. But that hasn't exactly happened in Somalia. They do still have a society but it is questionable how free it really is, as in the absence of the state people may also face other forms of oppression. For example, the Al-Shabaab in Somalia. In addition, capitalism has been severely broken down in the process.
@beamla "that hasn't exactly happened in Somalia"
But you just wrote, "people have reverted back to customary laws"
So have they they come together, as you said in the first post, or not as you say in the second?
The question remains, were they any better under a "government"?
It's not whether it's "better" or "worse" in any particular place or time, only that the imposition of a coercive monopoly on any given population only makes things worse.
@CurtHowland The problem is these customary laws are quite coercive in themselves. Also there is no US style focus on the individual. It's a patchwork country, but if we were to look at real outcomes in terms of peoples well being and happiness (humor me) now as compared to before with a Govt, they were better with a Govt. Of course, the previous Govt was Bolshevik so it wasn't great but in terms of real outcomes people's lives were better. I don't think that can be discounted.
@atraldreams How hard is it to predict "There's gonna be a big recession/big crash involving the financial sector... at some point...." Ron Paul is not the only person to have predicted it, and won't be the only person that makes these predictions in the future. It's like fortune telling. But etc I love Ron Paul.
@IBloodSweatTears - Hell, ALL politicians (including our Kenyan Keynesian) understand Austrian school economics. It's not rocket science.
The difference between Ron Paul and the rest of them is that Dr. Paul has the guts to speak the truth about what history and sound economic theory plainly tell us.
@IBloodSweatTears Austrian is the only school that makes sense. Watch this clip for proof. The most hilarious shit I've ever seen in the arena of economics: watch?v=mFdnA5UNmVw
@CurtHowland Govt control...look at Australia. Govt control = total success, Australia least effected country in the world due to Stimulus package, we acted early. Obama acted late because American idiots kept arguing on what to do, therefore it changed from a stimulus package for America, to a bailout.
Could this be the only time in history that the Keynesians acted "early enough" or "big enough" or whatever is always used in the destructive aftermath of a stimulus to excuse that the stimulus didn't work again?
I don't know anything about what Australia did or didn't do, because I've heard nothing about it.
Experience and history inform me, however, that your assertion is very likely false.
@CurtHowland Have you ever looked at the GDP graph for Australia during the recession we are the only country that didn't dip into a recession, thanks to the stimulus package. Yes it gave us a deficit, but the long term deficit would have been worse. Reply when your economy from what ever nation you come from is the most stable. (And yes, i know it doesnt work for americans, because they gave it to banks >_>)
@CurtHowland The future isn't mortgaged as our GDP is growing and we have low unemployment... and the level of Government debt is very low compared to Europe and the US. So as the GDP grows the Govt will pay off the debt through tax receipts then eventually putting the budget back into surplus. KEYNES WORKS!
Except that Keynesian economics is against paying off debt. It's against surpluses. And especially low govt debt.
This is why I said you need to learn economics. The very things you are proclaiming as "good" are the opposite of the word "Keynes" you use without understanding.
@CurtHowland Keynesian economics has moved on since Keynes... unlike Austrian Economics which hasn't changed since early last century and has now descended into this cult worship dogma. Paying off debt over the course of the boom cycle is possible and has been done before here. Modern Keynesian economics isn't automatically against surpluses.
@CurtHowland I have learned some economics and yes, Austrian Economics is a joke. It only survives due to its Libertarian ideology which is attractive to ideologues. However, it offers nothing enlightening. It can't be challenged because it refuses to provide data, it has no serious academic following. It's only following is douche bags on the internet, and Americans that get attracted to Ron Paul's maverick style. All while supporting reduced government in favour of vested interests.
I would recommend the several "Peter Schiff Was Right" videos, if I thought for a moment you'd watch them.
Also, the fact that the entire Mises University lectures from the last several years are on YouTube, mean that anyone who is interested in just how foolish you are can see for themselves.
Vested interests? You mean the favored corporations who run the govt, like Goldman Sachs?
@CurtHowland The idea is nice in theory (barely) that in order to deal with vested interests governments should just pay no attention to them... therefore meaning no corporations are in bed with a small government. This is more purposeful with the US military industrial complex and banking sector than anything else. However in most other cases I think vested interests would enjoy being left alone to do whatever they want. Govt oppression is then easily replaced by corporate oppression.
@beamla "I think vested interests would enjoy being left alone"
Do you understand what the word "vested" means? It means with full interest, in this case organizations which are tied in with the govt, each benefiting the other.
Without the govt monopoly on legitimate coercion, these organizations would not be able to "oppress" in the first place.
Again, you really need to learn some economics. It's all there, for free, any time you want it.
@CurtHowland You know full well that Austrian Economics is not the only school, and suggesting I learn some economics (as if Austrian is the only type) isn't helpful. There are other opinions. Back to vested interests- for example many would prefer to be less regulated and less or not taxed. A vested interest can exist without being a corporation that directly receives govt money. So yes state coercion may be abolished, but then property rich corporates dominate everyone and hence coerce.
"but then property rich corporates dominate everyone and hence coerce."
Maybe it's English you need to study. Dominating a particular market is not coercion. Without govt support, no company can survive without serving their customers, and customers are fickle. If they can leave, they do.
Are you old enough to remember ITT, which was going to rule the world? Gone.
@CurtHowland It can easily dominate an entire market, then other markets and after a while it doesn't matter what customers want. As you've killed the competition, they've no choice anymore. Then as for new potential competitors- bully them, deny them capital, use friends and connections with other corporations to stop them succeeding. Or just buy them, it's easier. Lalalala Utopia.
@CurtHowland Welcome to capitalism. The irony is that you seek to create a form of anarchic capitalism... that would somehow be nicer than state capitalism. Personally, I don't find the idea of leaving people to die like animals in freedom very liberating or worthwhile. It's still capitalism and deregulation isn't going to fix its deficiencies. Govt oppressive structures are simply replaced by corporate oppressive structures that hold bogus "rights" to property under an Austrian system.
@beamla "leaving people to die like animals in freedom"
So tell me. How does some rapatious business make a profit from people being left to die?
Seriously, it is unfathomable to me how, when I see what competition and free markets have helped people accomplish all around me, including the network YOU are using and the computer YOU are typing on, you can then say that market forces are anything but beneficial.
Can you tell me how serving customers better kills them?
@CurtHowland Firstly the Internet was researched and designed by the US Govt Military. The private sector served to facilitate mass take up of the internet. The public-private interaction is not as simple as you make it sound. I don't reject the power of markets. However, you are using examples of state capitalist successes, and not successes from the type of idealized 'pure' capitalism that your people seek to create. A business must make profits, hence people who cannot pay are dispensable.
@CurtHowland You completely ignored my reasoned explanation. The private sector brought it to the masses, but it didn't put in the original and potentially unprofitable early research. You're dogmatic in the extreme. I don't reject the power of markets, but I'm not blinded too ignore their shortcomings either. Just as I'm not blind to the shortcomings of governments. Dogma is what fails Austrian Economics.
@beamla "but it didn't put in the original and potentially unprofitable early research"
Yes, it did. There were many different computer networks. The heavy lifting of TCP/IP was actually not what the govt wanted, because it was done "anarchically" through the RFC process. But the research institutions and universities that developed it would not give it up, and the very flexibility of TCP/IP is what finally won out.
I ignored your "reasoned" explanation because you don't know what you speak of.
@CurtHowland The Internet only happened after commercialization? I explained it very logically and truthfully. Public dollars did initial research and design. Private dollars did the commercialization and brought it to people like you.
@CurtHowland And as you will very unlikely succeed in replacing government with anarcho-capitalism, all you will do in the meantime is make vested interests more powerful by further reducing regulations and taxes. In that process it may seem like your moving further towards liberty, but you would actually be entrenching the current system, and as the inevitable market failures increase the people and the Govt will not be able to resist bailing out the wealthy again and again.
@beamla "all you will do in the meantime is make vested interests more powerful by further reducing regulations and taxes"
You conveniently ignore the fact that the vested interests are vested specifically because they benefit from regulations and taxation, preventing competition.
Remove govt coercion and the "current system" you're defending ceases to exist.
Competition reduces costs and increases customer satisfaction at every turn.
@CurtHowland Your ignoring the fact that most vested interests would prefer the Govt ignores them. You're talking about the military industrial-complex, pharmaceuticals etc. However tobacco would prefer Govt completely ignored them, and most businesses would like the Govt to completely ignore them unless, and only unless, they could secure a deal that made working with the Govt worthwhile, which is the minority of vested interests. Your definitions are too narrow.
@beamla "most vested interests would prefer the Govt ignores them"
The precise opposite.
The vested interests LOVE copyright, patent, legal monopoly, regulations that prevent competition, and such things as mandated insurance, mandated medical coverage, tax funded roads, the military industrial complex, bailouts, and all the other means by which the vested interests use their leverage with govt to enrich themselves.
Your view is Utopian. Govt is the root of all evil.
@CurtHowland Ideas that cannot make money are dispensable, human discovery that cannot make money is dispensable... people are dispensable. Basically anything that doesn't create a short term profit for a business would be dispensable. That's scary. Especially in the field of research which is of course govt/private funded. Govts tend to be able to take on more long term research, (eg- internet), than can the private sector which obviously needs to have a foreseeable profit for their spend.
I would have thought the lessons of Tylenol and Jack In The Box would have informed you of the hazards of even SEEMING to be insensitive to customer issues, but that would require you to learn some history.
"Govts tend to be able to take on more long term research"
Another school of economics you've ignored, called "Public Choice". You should look that one up too.
@CurtHowland If a "customer" which would entirely replace "citizens" in your case, has no money, then obviously the business has no ability nor desire to satisfy that customer. That leaves a lot of people, in a lot of varied situations screwed. It's an even more extreme form a Social Darwinism.
@beamla You have no idea how glad I am the tobacco companies were only able to purchase enough govt to keep from being prosecuted, and not enough power to get themselves mandated.
Mandated the way the pharmaceutical companies have.
@CurtHowland I don't think you can compare authoritarian/totalitarian governments to western democracies... while western democracy has flaws... just no.
@beamla "How do you read the situation in Somalia?"
By all reports I've read, much better than they were under their last central govt, especially once they drove the US out of its attempt to "nation build" a-la "BlackHawk Down".
You might be interested in the paper "Stateless In Somalia" for more details.
Beyond that, I don't live there so I cannot say. I understand that there have been more attempts to impose a violent monopoly on them, which is very sad. Lots of violence from that.
@CurtHowland Thanks for the link. It's good that he actually addressed those two points. Honestly (I'm not being sectarian), I don't think he answered the question of BP or Somalia adequately. Besides, I think telling you to live in Somalia isn't a real argument. There isn't enough room here to talk about Somalia. Would you like to start a conversation on that website link comment board?
@beamla At this point, things are getting very hectic. I could not commit the time or attention for a decent discussion. There are many discussions of Somalia on Mises. org, since as you might imagine both "sides" of the "is central govt necessary?" argument have had great use of Somalia since its govt collapsed.
But I must continue to merely snipe from the sidelines when I can. :^)
Please, I'm certain that the people who know far more than I do would enjoy the discussion.
@beamla At this point, things are getting very hectic. I could not commit the time or attention for a decent discussion. There are many discussions of Somalia on Mises. org, since as you might imagine both "sides" of the "is central govt necessary?" argument have had great use of Somalia since its govt collapsed.
But I must continue to merely snipe from the sidelines when I can. :^)
Please, I'm certain that the people who know far more than I do would enjoy the discussion.
hmph. Man, it's sad seeing how Keynesian Economists outright shrugged off the warnings of the Austrian School. Just imagine if we were more careful a decade ago... Funny this is, we still follow the same mindset that led us to this "Great Recession"; commonsense has nothing to do with politics it seems.
@TechPriest89 The Austrian school has been writing about the functions of markets, and telling anyone who would listen, for more than a hundred years.
The fact that it is so incredibly HARD to convince people that they cannot impose efficiency is a testament to human hubris.
They so WANT to be able to plan and control that when they're told that planning and control doesn't work, they ignore it, stick their fingers in their ears and yell "La-la-la-la-la", exactly as this video shows.
Reality and honesty vs. manipulation and pandering by politicians.
carcabe 4 days ago
I just pooped a turd of solid gold. Anybody lookin to buy?
LeoBaoig 4 days ago in playlist Economics
4:51 lol, he doesn't get it hahahaha..... I feel sad now
aaronmoravek 5 days ago
listen to the guy laugh and smerk has anyone seen him show his face!
toppgunn2232 6 days ago
everyone who listened to ben pre 2008 lost their ass and their shirt during the first wave of the recession errrrr depression!
toppgunn2232 6 days ago
Bernanke sounds nervous all the time
thotkrime 6 days ago
Ben has head up his ass then.
MrDeejayjfx 1 week ago
Look at gold above Peter's head around 4:15 or so. $620 something dollars. He nailed that one....
Steve83B 1 week ago
economic textbooks in school don't even mention austrian economics unfortunately. all they fucking talk about is the failed keynesian system and theyre still trying to salvage it.
mojomatt176 1 week ago
Paul Krugman is so much more then just a bad economist, he is a socialist monster
people like him are a cancer on a free nation.
and like a cancer, the best thing to do is remove it.
send him where he would be happiest, a communist country
phantomcharger 1 week ago
The few in Washington DC have destroyed SO MANY lives with up/down interest rates and inflation
Why would A. we still listen to them anymore?
and B. Why are we still paying them?
is their anyone sill out there that thinks this is by accident?
phantomcharger 1 week ago
“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks . . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered . . . The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Debate Over The Re-charter Of The Bank Bill, 1809
phantomcharger 1 week ago
"I'll bet you a penny we don't go into a recession..."
Schiff: "I'll bet you a lot more than a penny we do..."
HAHA Classic austrian economic smackdown.
goatnuts8288 1 week ago
I dont think it's possible to be more lovable than Ron Paul, he's like everyone's wise little grandpa
mites7 2 weeks ago
Am the only one who feels like even Bernake doesn't believe the words that come out of his mouth?
mites7 2 weeks ago
Krugman: "First question, 'Is there going to be a recession?' Let me say with great certainty, I don't know. Nobody knows."
It could only have been pure arrogance to suggest that nobody knew just because he didn't know. Krugman, if you don't know, have you ever thought about stepping aside for people who know?
Aussie236 3 weeks ago
This really shows how stupid Ben Bernanke is.
NathanielEverist 3 weeks ago
Americans who are typically pro-keynesian, rather want to live in debt, than live within your means. Like I usually say: its for doofus
HxabsolutexP 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Keynesian is for doofus. Ofcourse Keynes was wrong... and he himself knew it.
HxabsolutexP 3 weeks ago
Keynesian is for doofus. Ofcourse Keynes was wrong... and he himself knew it.
HxabsolutexP 3 weeks ago
Our economists, our elected representatives, and ourselves flounder about in a sea of "solutions" because we simply have not identified the real problem, usury interest. Mike Montagne says he presented his mathematically perfected economy MPE to Reagan:
youtube.com/watch?v=FtwMkIssuUQ&list=PL4F0FC0AC39B3086A
IMHO he sure puts forward strong arguments, graphic demos, and concrete mechanisms to transition from where we are to where we need to be.
smileybcs 4 weeks ago
Keynesians in the long run your beliefs are dead
MrEconomics101 1 month ago
@MrEconomics101 And now, we're in the Long-Run. Keynes, himself, would have clarified the limits to his theory had he lived longer. History will look back on the post war monetary policy with disbelief. Glad we could give them an example of what not to do. Too bad we have to live through this demonstration.
aem945532 1 month ago in playlist Keynesian vs Austrian
RON PAUL 2012!
SuperSneakySteve 1 month ago
Oh god, those fools had no idea what was coming and people still listen to them???
gold95 1 month ago
@gold95 Not only do they still have listeners, they seem utterly immune from criticism.
Krugman still has his New York Times column, where he gets to constantly pretend that more intervention and more money printing is what will save the day.
CurtHowland 1 month ago
@gold95 Maybe they know exactly what they are doing. That’s even more frightening.
wispa2 1 month ago
Schiff shot a load in Laffer's face. But laffer didn't know...
gold95 1 month ago
Here's how you fix the economy:
1. Remove the federal income tax COMPLETELY, this takes away welfare and makes companies compete for providing service, lowering costs and raising quality. This also makes it so that you pay for yourself, which fixes the illegal immigration problem. This also takes away huge government salaries so only people who actually want change run.
2. End the Fed, reestablish the gold standard, this will ensure ACTUAL money instead of imaginary money. Why does roman money
d3ltadrive 1 month ago
@d3ltadrive still have value today, because it was actual money. Today's money will have no value when it collapses because it is meaningless. I am for paper money representing a certain amount of gold and silver because of the hassle of using physical gold, but not imaginary money.
3 End corporatism. Combine ownership and operation so that no one can buy out a company in secret by buying out their shares.
4 End all Gov interference, this makes companies do risky things that are detrimental
d3ltadrive 1 month ago
@d3ltadrive to the economy, because they know the government will come to the rescue and bail them out.
d3ltadrive 1 month ago
AUDIT THE FED!
dolphanatic23 1 month ago 2
Keynesian economics pulled the US out of a depretion and prevented another from happeneing (although at the cost of creating a recession), Friedmanism and the other Libertarian ideals caused a depretion and a recession. Keynesian economics was so sucessful in the US that governments in western Europe copied it, Friedmanism has always needed an army to keep itself in place. Keynesian economics say the largest industrial growth in US history, Friedmanism saw that same industry shipped to China.
dave19941000 1 month ago
@dave19941000 Keynesian economics just doesn't work u cn't argue the fact that Austrian is a better tool to predict market conditions The current 1 man show we have going on is a joke Economics is similar to physics It has its own laws that we are still trying to understand Predicting market conditions has been a challenge since the Renaissance. Austrian may not be perfect, but it sure beats a system where you lose more than 95% of the purchasing power in 100yrs Econ cycles r less harsh w/Aust
papeeboy 1 month ago
@papeeboy Economics is not a pure science like physics, it is a social science, which means it does not have laws becaue they can, and do, change. Friedmans policies turned Chile from a 1st world to a 3ed world economy in 3 years flat, turned Argentina into a nation living in fear, brought poverty in Russia to 40% (higher then it ever was under Soviet rule) and so much more. No system is perfect, but to say Austrian is better is to ignore all the results of its use in practice.
dave19941000 1 month ago
Comment removed
papeeboy 1 month ago
@dave19941000 If you are referring to the Great Depression you are wrong. U.S. entrance into WWII provided the impetus needed for a resurgence in economic activity. Keynesian economics had little to do with it given the strong capitalistic ideals which were prevalent. Such being the simple, "I have a product that you want, you have one that I want, we shall exchange." The continued Keynesian economics and further involvement of the government lead to the stagflation era in the 70s.
Omar77779 1 month ago
Rothbard > Friedman
OldRightPaleocon 1 month ago
Ben Bernanke is not a Keynesian, Keynesians are very big on government intervention in the economy Bernanke most certainly is not. Ben Bernanke is more of a follower of Friedman, he only intervened when he had no choice and at the last possible moment, long after any Keynesian would have pushed the button.
Siind 1 month ago
@Siind he probably converted to keynesianism, because friedman wouldn't have blamed the markets, and friedman never would've pumped such a huge ton of money into the economy. Also, quantitative easing is pretty keynesian of him.
selymak 1 month ago
"smart water"
brentduncan18 1 month ago
In the end, Fabian Socialists don't really want to own it if they can control it, all they need to control it is a financial crisis that allows them to change laws, inflate the currency, and buy stock in corporations. Whether you call it nationalizing an industry or corporate fascism, the result is the same--the death of freedom and private property rights, this is the Fabian Socialists endgame.
quietman1k 1 month ago
Keynesianism, or interventionism, or socialism, is contrary to nearly every aspect of what our Constitution was founded on. Today, Keynesianism is called interventionism. It is where the government itself gets involved in the economic sphere and passes laws that destroy what we would call sound, basic economics. And what we had with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the whole deal of going now into debt by trillions is nothing more or nothing less than Fabian, Keynesian economic philosophy.
quietman1k 1 month ago
Keynesian economics can be recognized by it's values that are contrary to much of what makes for healthy financial living for individuals or nations -- love of debt and hatred of savings, The wholesale implementation of this idea caused the Great Depression. John Maynard Keynes was a socialist and a member of the British Fabian Society. Fabianism dovetails well with corporate fascism, the merging of government and big business.
quietman1k 1 month ago
Thanks for putting all these clips together and all the people in this video that are not named Peter Schiff can go fuck themselves.
AntPalm8 1 month ago
7.08 hahahahahaha just great comic timing
pamchirathivat 1 month ago
Peter Schiff even took down Ben Stein. Aww man, this guy is my hero. Chuck Norris move over....
baller84milw 1 month ago
And we still have this idiot as the Fed chairman? Just goes to show how ignorant most Americans are, and how the ones that "think" they know whats going on just swallow everything CNBC, CNN, and the mainstream news run unquestionably.
baller84milw 1 month ago
Who the fuck is laughing now? Sit the fuck down.
xHippieHunter 1 month ago 3
This video makes me want to slap the shit out of half of these economists. I hope they have fun starving in the next decade because they are going to be unemployable.
cchanderson 1 month ago
For anyone interested in Austrian economics, I have comedic video series that I am starting that is on my channel. Ron Paul 2012
CommonSenseLako 2 months ago
If the corporations wont spend and the people cant spend the government must spend! You can take the trickle down approach(austrian economics)and you are right it will eventually right itself. but after how many people are disinfranchised and starved to death.It worked for FDR no matter how you argue it extended the depression.And Schiff IS a facsist douchebag.
jelisa46 2 months ago
It's no question Ron Paul can win the Presidency, but can he win the Republican nomination? Unfortunately a good chunk of registered Republicans won't vote for Dr. Paul in their state's primaries, and most states have closed primaries. So if you want Dr. Paul to be a Presidential candidate, register Republican(even if you hate Republican's or belong to another party) and vote for Ron Paul in your state's Republican primaries. You can always switch later.
walmartpimp2 2 months ago
When will people listen? Time is running out rapidly.
frkelsa 2 months ago
Austrian economics! Ron Paul 2012!
paperlanterns98 2 months ago 3
Ben Bernanke was named 2007 PERSON of the year by TIME magazine for avoiding another great depression. I LOL'ed so hard and felt a sadness so severe
jinkz2608 2 months ago 24
@jinkz2608 2009
Nered88 4 weeks ago
@jinkz2608 ditto... no questions from the ignorance fostered largely by public education, either.
brothermoon 3 weeks ago
This video is amazing! Almost hilarious.
lavrentievv 2 months ago
Austria ever help the world?
00Billy 2 months ago
Keynesian economics has taken over our economy and our academic institutions, we have no hope unless you share this video - email all of your friends and share it on facebook and encourage them to vote for Ron Paul.
0NE0HUNDRED1 2 months ago 4
Laffer reminds me of those people at carnivals who try to scam you out of all your money with some game you can't win.
sileb13 2 months ago
How do these lamestream economists have any credibility whatsoever?!! They should go kill themselves or at least resign and find real jobs. Liars and frauds.
DramaQueen1776 2 months ago
Ben stein is a moron, the fact he still argues with people like ron paul is laughable.
guilde 2 months ago 6
I'm learning Macroeconomics at my college. It's based on Keynesian, I demand a different text book!!!
TonyBeanify 2 months ago 18
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RapsAlive 2 months ago
WHY ISN'T RON PAUL THE FED CHAIRMAN. THESE PECKER WOODS GOT KNOCKED UPSIDE THE HEAD "OH WHAT HAPPENED". I WOULD LOVE TO SHOW THEM THIS VIDEO AND SEE THEIR REACTION TODAY.
tadaa11 2 months ago 2
Arthur Laffer has always been a joke, but he's not a keynsian, nor is Bernanke, more an advocate of Friedman and Rand. A product of the Chicago school of economics (trickle down). But thank you Peter for calling it like it is. Just like Nouriel Roubini (Dr Doom)
cardcreekdesign 2 months ago 2
@cardcreekdesign Friedman wanted to abolish the fed.
tadaa11 2 months ago
When you vote, don't look at the R or D, don't look at "conservative" or "progressive" labels, look at whether the candidate is a Keynesian or an Austrian.
All Keynesians should be thrown out of office. Quite a few should be charged with treason.
BloodofPatriots 3 months ago
I'll bet you alot more than a penny.
fauxmocracy 3 months ago
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Keynsianism and monetarism got us into this mess. The idea that you cant have deflation, economic growth, and low unemployment simultaneously is absurd. Take, cars, planes, TVs they have all decreased in real costs as a result of increase in productivity, thus real income has increased, demand increases, firms hire more labour, so we have economic growth, deflation and higher employment!! You can only borrow your way out of debt, if the debt is to increase ability to pay back debt!!
Rasterius 3 months ago
Schiff must just be thinking..."FACE!"
LeonDawson11 3 months ago
Watching this video just made me highly upset!!
TairyHesticles1 3 months ago
Absolutely hilarious how wrong these keynesians were. Whenever idiots like Laffer or Bernanke speak, simply do the opposite of what they say. You are pretty much guarenteed profit.
0Mellennium0 3 months ago
seeing such responsibles making such bad decisions, they should be fired immediately
frix123 3 months ago
Looks like the Jews were wrong and the gentiles were right.
brrrdman85 3 months ago
The position Bernanke took during the bubble is not very Keynesian. The basis of true Keynesian economy is to stabilize growth. This would mean injecting money into the economy during lows in order to minimize stagnation and restricting the supply of money during good times in order to stop bubbles from forming and pay off govt. debt. During the 2000s the fed did quite the opposite of what i believe Keynes would have done himself.
Derpman123 3 months ago
@Derpman123 Thanks for being intelligent to write what you did. I was just starting to think that no one on youtube understands economics. Hell, the current collapse is actually caused (at least partially) by Austrian type thinking. Deregulation of banks (completely Austrian) is what allowed the mortgage backed securities to be sold the way they were and the Bush/Regan tax cuts are what caused the massive concentration of wealth that lead to the bubble/collapse. (Keynes wrote/warned of this)
H2J0E 3 months ago
FIRE BEN BERNAKE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DP3mo24hofosho 3 months ago 2
Paul Krugman is a schmuck
phlather 3 months ago in playlist phlather's favorites
Bernake new this would happen?!?!?
Musicerthanyou 4 months ago
4:35 "no new tax increases in the next few years..." yeah right I wonder what that dumb mother fukcer would say today!
sellsjeeps 4 months ago
boy am no expert in economy, but is seems to me if you consume more than you produce and have to constantly borrow money to cover your expenses, you will be screwed in the long run. Sooner or later you will crash... but what do I know...
Ijustasking 4 months ago
@Ijustasking I stopped reading once you said "I am no expert in economy"
Should of stopped typing there.
AgrivatedKillah 3 months ago
@AgrivatedKillah The so called experts screwed us up, lending money to people who can't pay, selling financial product they have no clue about, making bets on bets on stuff that does not exists, printing money out of thin air and hopping it will fix things...ultimately the main concepts of economy are fairly simple, you can only increase you wealth if you produce more than you consume, this applies to individual as well as to nations, If I am wrong please tell me where I am wrong specefically...
Ijustasking 3 months ago
@AgrivatedKillah You obviously stopped watching the video after one second, because 99% of the "experts" were wrong.
antimarxism 3 months ago
LOL Mike Norman. What a fuckhead
lilbromarky1 4 months ago
Look at these fucking assholes laughing at Schiff. Not so funny now is it, dickholes?
Spunjo1221 4 months ago 97
@Spunjo1221 some say laughing is animal spirit ;)
Moriartyization 3 months ago
@Spunjo1221 unfortunately it still is to some of them. They've pushed so much bullshit and the people haven't even notice. Ignorance =/=bliss
gotrusty 2 months ago
you should compare neoclassical with austrian...
MrBigEnchilada 4 months ago
There is nothing in this video about Keynesian economics, other than Krugman cracking a joke.
arena2101 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ron Paul 2012
lostcauze88 4 months ago
home price up 10% for 2007 they where up 80% in 2002-2008
2009 down 80%
sha370z 4 months ago
This video is nicely put together. Thanks for your work.
thedailydigestorg 4 months ago
Arthur Laffer now has egg on his face.
Kaniela6759 4 months ago 48
@Kaniela6759
I wonder if Peter Schiff ever got his penny?
freelistic 4 months ago 5
@atraldreams "even less predictive power than mainstream economics"
The lie in that is that the Austrians loudly proclaim that predicting a particular event at a particular time is impossible, because human action is too complex.
It is possible to "predict" general events, such as "if you print money like it's going out of style, the following will happen".
But the "mainstream" liars use mathematics to increase their model's "accuracy", but the models are false so they're always wrong.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland Also, there is Somaliland in the North, while not being internationally recognized as its own state, is the only part of Somalia with a central government. The other part of the country is now broken up into warlords and in the absence of government people have reverted back to customary laws. It's probably the only anarcho-capitalist state currently in existence- a non fiat currency is in use, people still have property, etc.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla I believe the fundamental element here is "people have reverted back to customary laws".
When not imposed upon, the people do not start eating each other. They have rules of conduct, shared values, a "society", that exists separate from and independent of any central govt.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland I agree. I don't have a problem with the idea of people freely coming together to collectively run their own show etc. But that hasn't exactly happened in Somalia. They do still have a society but it is questionable how free it really is, as in the absence of the state people may also face other forms of oppression. For example, the Al-Shabaab in Somalia. In addition, capitalism has been severely broken down in the process.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "that hasn't exactly happened in Somalia"
But you just wrote, "people have reverted back to customary laws"
So have they they come together, as you said in the first post, or not as you say in the second?
The question remains, were they any better under a "government"?
It's not whether it's "better" or "worse" in any particular place or time, only that the imposition of a coercive monopoly on any given population only makes things worse.
Govt is just people.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland The problem is these customary laws are quite coercive in themselves. Also there is no US style focus on the individual. It's a patchwork country, but if we were to look at real outcomes in terms of peoples well being and happiness (humor me) now as compared to before with a Govt, they were better with a Govt. Of course, the previous Govt was Bolshevik so it wasn't great but in terms of real outcomes people's lives were better. I don't think that can be discounted.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "quite coercive in themselves"
I'm not arguing for Utopia. Just self determination.
"they were better with a Govt"
What is your source for this blanket proclamation?
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@atraldreams How hard is it to predict "There's gonna be a big recession/big crash involving the financial sector... at some point...." Ron Paul is not the only person to have predicted it, and won't be the only person that makes these predictions in the future. It's like fortune telling. But etc I love Ron Paul.
beamla 4 months ago
Austrian Economics is so hot right now (really).
beamla 4 months ago 2
Gawd, Art Laffer was so-o-o screwed yammering back in 2006.
"Nurmee-nurmee-nurmee-I-can't-HEAR-you!"
RichMatarese 4 months ago
that is amazing. I wonder if those idiots who laughed at Schiff feel like the morons they are now!
Follower172 4 months ago
The guy at 6:25 was pretty cocky back then, wasn’t he?
WakeUpAndLive1967 5 months ago
Bet this idiot that was laughing on fox news now listens to Schiff.
AustralianAllTheWay 5 months ago
Ron Paul 2012 - If only because he understand Austrian Economics!
IBloodSweatTears 5 months ago 35
@IBloodSweatTears - Hell, ALL politicians (including our Kenyan Keynesian) understand Austrian school economics. It's not rocket science.
The difference between Ron Paul and the rest of them is that Dr. Paul has the guts to speak the truth about what history and sound economic theory plainly tell us.
RichMatarese 4 months ago
@IBloodSweatTears Austrian is the only school that makes sense. Watch this clip for proof. The most hilarious shit I've ever seen in the arena of economics: watch?v=mFdnA5UNmVw
lilbromarky1 4 months ago
I have one word to say to people who are too caught up in which school is right.
Deregulation.
If people don't understand what the one simple word fit into our current situation, then don't even bother talking about economics.
Neosaigo 5 months ago
@Neosaigo I couldn't agree more. Govt control must be removed or the USSA will follow the USSR into the dustbin of history.
CurtHowland 5 months ago
@CurtHowland Govt control...look at Australia. Govt control = total success, Australia least effected country in the world due to Stimulus package, we acted early. Obama acted late because American idiots kept arguing on what to do, therefore it changed from a stimulus package for America, to a bailout.
leratao 5 months ago
@leratao "Govt control = total success"
Glad I don't live in Australia.
"we acted early"
Could this be the only time in history that the Keynesians acted "early enough" or "big enough" or whatever is always used in the destructive aftermath of a stimulus to excuse that the stimulus didn't work again?
I don't know anything about what Australia did or didn't do, because I've heard nothing about it.
Experience and history inform me, however, that your assertion is very likely false.
CurtHowland 5 months ago
@CurtHowland Have you ever looked at the GDP graph for Australia during the recession we are the only country that didn't dip into a recession, thanks to the stimulus package. Yes it gave us a deficit, but the long term deficit would have been worse. Reply when your economy from what ever nation you come from is the most stable. (And yes, i know it doesnt work for americans, because they gave it to banks >_>)
leratao 5 months ago
@leratao Great for Australia. Now imagine how well Australia would be doing if they hadn't mortgaged the future with that "stimulus".
But it's ok, I know you think wealth can be created by printing paper money. Lots of people have that delusion.
CurtHowland 5 months ago
@CurtHowland The future isn't mortgaged as our GDP is growing and we have low unemployment... and the level of Government debt is very low compared to Europe and the US. So as the GDP grows the Govt will pay off the debt through tax receipts then eventually putting the budget back into surplus. KEYNES WORKS!
beamla 5 months ago
@beamla "KEYNES WORKS!"
Except that Keynesian economics is against paying off debt. It's against surpluses. And especially low govt debt.
This is why I said you need to learn economics. The very things you are proclaiming as "good" are the opposite of the word "Keynes" you use without understanding.
CurtHowland 5 months ago
@CurtHowland Keynesian economics has moved on since Keynes... unlike Austrian Economics which hasn't changed since early last century and has now descended into this cult worship dogma. Paying off debt over the course of the boom cycle is possible and has been done before here. Modern Keynesian economics isn't automatically against surpluses.
beamla 4 months ago
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@beamla "unlike Austrian Economics which hasn't changed"
Really, please, learn some economics. I beg you.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland I have learned some economics and yes, Austrian Economics is a joke. It only survives due to its Libertarian ideology which is attractive to ideologues. However, it offers nothing enlightening. It can't be challenged because it refuses to provide data, it has no serious academic following. It's only following is douche bags on the internet, and Americans that get attracted to Ron Paul's maverick style. All while supporting reduced government in favour of vested interests.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "it offers nothing enlightening."
Hahahaha, you are a bufoon.
I would recommend the several "Peter Schiff Was Right" videos, if I thought for a moment you'd watch them.
Also, the fact that the entire Mises University lectures from the last several years are on YouTube, mean that anyone who is interested in just how foolish you are can see for themselves.
Vested interests? You mean the favored corporations who run the govt, like Goldman Sachs?
Hahaha, thank Cromm people can fact check you
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland The idea is nice in theory (barely) that in order to deal with vested interests governments should just pay no attention to them... therefore meaning no corporations are in bed with a small government. This is more purposeful with the US military industrial complex and banking sector than anything else. However in most other cases I think vested interests would enjoy being left alone to do whatever they want. Govt oppression is then easily replaced by corporate oppression.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "I think vested interests would enjoy being left alone"
Do you understand what the word "vested" means? It means with full interest, in this case organizations which are tied in with the govt, each benefiting the other.
Without the govt monopoly on legitimate coercion, these organizations would not be able to "oppress" in the first place.
Again, you really need to learn some economics. It's all there, for free, any time you want it.
Youtube/user/MisesMedia
Avail yourself of it.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland You know full well that Austrian Economics is not the only school, and suggesting I learn some economics (as if Austrian is the only type) isn't helpful. There are other opinions. Back to vested interests- for example many would prefer to be less regulated and less or not taxed. A vested interest can exist without being a corporation that directly receives govt money. So yes state coercion may be abolished, but then property rich corporates dominate everyone and hence coerce.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "There are other opinions"
Indeed, but I'm talking about facts.
"but then property rich corporates dominate everyone and hence coerce."
Maybe it's English you need to study. Dominating a particular market is not coercion. Without govt support, no company can survive without serving their customers, and customers are fickle. If they can leave, they do.
Are you old enough to remember ITT, which was going to rule the world? Gone.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland It can easily dominate an entire market, then other markets and after a while it doesn't matter what customers want. As you've killed the competition, they've no choice anymore. Then as for new potential competitors- bully them, deny them capital, use friends and connections with other corporations to stop them succeeding. Or just buy them, it's easier. Lalalala Utopia.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "It can easily dominate an entire market"
Govt can, because it has the monopoly on legitimate coercion.
Govt is the only way to kill competition.
Otherwise, the only way to prevent competition is to do such a good job that no one CAN compete.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland Welcome to capitalism. The irony is that you seek to create a form of anarchic capitalism... that would somehow be nicer than state capitalism. Personally, I don't find the idea of leaving people to die like animals in freedom very liberating or worthwhile. It's still capitalism and deregulation isn't going to fix its deficiencies. Govt oppressive structures are simply replaced by corporate oppressive structures that hold bogus "rights" to property under an Austrian system.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "leaving people to die like animals in freedom"
So tell me. How does some rapatious business make a profit from people being left to die?
Seriously, it is unfathomable to me how, when I see what competition and free markets have helped people accomplish all around me, including the network YOU are using and the computer YOU are typing on, you can then say that market forces are anything but beneficial.
Can you tell me how serving customers better kills them?
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland Firstly the Internet was researched and designed by the US Govt Military. The private sector served to facilitate mass take up of the internet. The public-private interaction is not as simple as you make it sound. I don't reject the power of markets. However, you are using examples of state capitalist successes, and not successes from the type of idealized 'pure' capitalism that your people seek to create. A business must make profits, hence people who cannot pay are dispensable.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "the Internet was researched and designed by the US Govt"
And learn history. Please.
The Internet only happened AFTER the National Science Foundation STOPPED their control and released it to the free market.
"I don't reject the power of markets"
The you're not reading your own words. At every turn you deny the market forces around you.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland You completely ignored my reasoned explanation. The private sector brought it to the masses, but it didn't put in the original and potentially unprofitable early research. You're dogmatic in the extreme. I don't reject the power of markets, but I'm not blinded too ignore their shortcomings either. Just as I'm not blind to the shortcomings of governments. Dogma is what fails Austrian Economics.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "but it didn't put in the original and potentially unprofitable early research"
Yes, it did. There were many different computer networks. The heavy lifting of TCP/IP was actually not what the govt wanted, because it was done "anarchically" through the RFC process. But the research institutions and universities that developed it would not give it up, and the very flexibility of TCP/IP is what finally won out.
I ignored your "reasoned" explanation because you don't know what you speak of.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland The Internet only happened after commercialization? I explained it very logically and truthfully. Public dollars did initial research and design. Private dollars did the commercialization and brought it to people like you.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "and brought it to people like you."
You continue to not know of what you speak.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland And as you will very unlikely succeed in replacing government with anarcho-capitalism, all you will do in the meantime is make vested interests more powerful by further reducing regulations and taxes. In that process it may seem like your moving further towards liberty, but you would actually be entrenching the current system, and as the inevitable market failures increase the people and the Govt will not be able to resist bailing out the wealthy again and again.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "all you will do in the meantime is make vested interests more powerful by further reducing regulations and taxes"
You conveniently ignore the fact that the vested interests are vested specifically because they benefit from regulations and taxation, preventing competition.
Remove govt coercion and the "current system" you're defending ceases to exist.
Competition reduces costs and increases customer satisfaction at every turn.
Always has.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland Your ignoring the fact that most vested interests would prefer the Govt ignores them. You're talking about the military industrial-complex, pharmaceuticals etc. However tobacco would prefer Govt completely ignored them, and most businesses would like the Govt to completely ignore them unless, and only unless, they could secure a deal that made working with the Govt worthwhile, which is the minority of vested interests. Your definitions are too narrow.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "most vested interests would prefer the Govt ignores them"
The precise opposite.
The vested interests LOVE copyright, patent, legal monopoly, regulations that prevent competition, and such things as mandated insurance, mandated medical coverage, tax funded roads, the military industrial complex, bailouts, and all the other means by which the vested interests use their leverage with govt to enrich themselves.
Your view is Utopian. Govt is the root of all evil.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland My view is Utopian? I'm not the one advocating a system that has never existed before. You are.
beamla 4 months ago
@CurtHowland Ideas that cannot make money are dispensable, human discovery that cannot make money is dispensable... people are dispensable. Basically anything that doesn't create a short term profit for a business would be dispensable. That's scary. Especially in the field of research which is of course govt/private funded. Govts tend to be able to take on more long term research, (eg- internet), than can the private sector which obviously needs to have a foreseeable profit for their spend.
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "people are dispensable"
Without satisfying customers, businesses fail.
I would have thought the lessons of Tylenol and Jack In The Box would have informed you of the hazards of even SEEMING to be insensitive to customer issues, but that would require you to learn some history.
"Govts tend to be able to take on more long term research"
Another school of economics you've ignored, called "Public Choice". You should look that one up too.
I would suggest "Democracy: The God That Failed."
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland You've completely ignored my valid points and examples... in favor of saying "free choice" blah.
beamla 4 months ago
@CurtHowland If a "customer" which would entirely replace "citizens" in your case, has no money, then obviously the business has no ability nor desire to satisfy that customer. That leaves a lot of people, in a lot of varied situations screwed. It's an even more extreme form a Social Darwinism.
beamla 4 months ago
@CurtHowland youtube.com/watch?v=VpwcF3Malj8&feature=feedrec_grec_index
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla You have no idea how glad I am the tobacco companies were only able to purchase enough govt to keep from being prosecuted, and not enough power to get themselves mandated.
Mandated the way the pharmaceutical companies have.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland This is just one way that "better serving customers" can kill them youtube.com/watch?v=VpwcF3Malj8&feature=feedrec_grec_index
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla 250,000,000 people dead at the hands of their own governments in the 20th century, not including war.
Your love of coercion does not sway me in the slightest.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland I don't think you can compare authoritarian/totalitarian governments to western democracies... while western democracy has flaws... just no.
beamla 4 months ago
@CurtHowland How do you read the situation in Somalia?
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla "How do you read the situation in Somalia?"
By all reports I've read, much better than they were under their last central govt, especially once they drove the US out of its attempt to "nation build" a-la "BlackHawk Down".
You might be interested in the paper "Stateless In Somalia" for more details.
Beyond that, I don't live there so I cannot say. I understand that there have been more attempts to impose a violent monopoly on them, which is very sad. Lots of violence from that.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
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@beamla On Somalia, you might appreciate this article that came out today,
aynrkey.blogspot. com/2011/10/phony-arguments. ht ml
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland Thanks for the link. It's good that he actually addressed those two points. Honestly (I'm not being sectarian), I don't think he answered the question of BP or Somalia adequately. Besides, I think telling you to live in Somalia isn't a real argument. There isn't enough room here to talk about Somalia. Would you like to start a conversation on that website link comment board?
beamla 4 months ago
@beamla At this point, things are getting very hectic. I could not commit the time or attention for a decent discussion. There are many discussions of Somalia on Mises. org, since as you might imagine both "sides" of the "is central govt necessary?" argument have had great use of Somalia since its govt collapsed.
But I must continue to merely snipe from the sidelines when I can. :^)
Please, I'm certain that the people who know far more than I do would enjoy the discussion.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
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@beamla At this point, things are getting very hectic. I could not commit the time or attention for a decent discussion. There are many discussions of Somalia on Mises. org, since as you might imagine both "sides" of the "is central govt necessary?" argument have had great use of Somalia since its govt collapsed.
But I must continue to merely snipe from the sidelines when I can. :^)
Please, I'm certain that the people who know far more than I do would enjoy the discussion.
CurtHowland 4 months ago
@CurtHowland ooooh the Govt intervening into the economy, how scary. yawn,
beamla 5 months ago
hmph. Man, it's sad seeing how Keynesian Economists outright shrugged off the warnings of the Austrian School. Just imagine if we were more careful a decade ago... Funny this is, we still follow the same mindset that led us to this "Great Recession"; commonsense has nothing to do with politics it seems.
TechPriest89 5 months ago
@TechPriest89 The Austrian school has been writing about the functions of markets, and telling anyone who would listen, for more than a hundred years.
The fact that it is so incredibly HARD to convince people that they cannot impose efficiency is a testament to human hubris.
They so WANT to be able to plan and control that when they're told that planning and control doesn't work, they ignore it, stick their fingers in their ears and yell "La-la-la-la-la", exactly as this video shows.
CurtHowland 5 months ago
lol, what a bunch of schmucks
tchthsky 5 months ago
Fuck Bernanke
gnardog503 5 months ago