Herbert Marcuse on the Frankfurt School: Section 5 of 5

[CommunistWarrior1917]

"in the language you use, you have to indicate he rupture with conformity"

[wahyubnindonesia]

frankfurt schule must realize their failure in facing social reality, todays they only become explanation instrument, not the revolution one. how the habermas way in present social critics only find as nature philosopher. the thing which hate so much by marx.

[Matthysable]

@wahyubnindonesia Is this English?

[cullenstalin]

Thank you so much! So completely relevant to this day.

[memoryburn7]

bryan magee has fortitude to call this guys peers turgid writers. go magee! such a good interviewer.

[fromis111]

this is a wonderful program. thanks so much flame0430.

[OurFadedGarden]

"No one ever would have expected it" sounded a bit rude to me.

[Matthysable]

Why this cultural destroyer was invited to spew his poison in the first place amazes me!

Freudianism, Marxism, and the Holocaust all have three things in common:

1) our European self-identity is not what we think it is.Our civility is based on coarse sexual drives, our respect for honesty and trust in economy is based on naked avarice, and oour high culture underlined by genocidal hate and racism,

2) all three are Jewish inventions.

3) all three alienate us from ourselves

[bapyou]

@Matthysable "Freudianism, Marxism, and the Holocaust" . . . were "all Jewish inventions"? Do tell.

In what way did Freud's Jewishness influence his work? Your comment suggests that Freud was quoting from the Torah; a false and stupid suggestion.

Marx's father was a Jew but Marx's mother was not. He himself was brought up Lutheran. Explain how Marx's non-existent Jewishness influenced his thought?

And the Holocaust was invented by Jews?

You're just an anti-semite.

[BroadswordTULL]

@Matthysable the fact that any stupid nazi-fuckhole (like you for example) can spew its poison all over the world via internet is a fatal error in the system. but this possibility also reminds us, how sick mankind still is.

[Matthysable]

@BroadswordTULL Happy to know I struck a chord. Feeling the heat?

[BroadswordTULL]

@Matthysable yes, the heat of the steaming shit that runs out of your Nazi mouth.

[Matthysable]

@BroadswordTULL Your language reflects the usual, predictable, scatological obsession so typical of your tribe. Do you ever think about anything above the crotch?

Anyway, I have no intention of getting into a 'debate' with someone who is obviously incapable of going beyond name-calling. Sorry, but no more answers from me, so, fire off your last hysterical obscenities if you please - you have my permission.

[BroadswordTULL]

@Matthysable I'm only telling the ugly truth baby. Live with it.

[ThomasRowsell]

@BroadswordTULL the true face of cultural marxism rears its ugly head when confronted with an opposing view. SILENCE THE OPPOSITION! lol!!. when truth is your enemy, you submit to eternal conflict with reality

[realitycheck888]

Oh, it's oh sooo civilised isn't it!? You've got to admire the respect with which Magee treats his interviewees, even those like Marcuse with whom he so obviously disagrees!

[Matthysable]

@realitycheck888 Yes, reminds me of Cuddihy's' Ordel of Civility'!

[Israe5l]

So, I got a question. Is capitalism necessary for democracy?

[MikeCDawg]

@Israe5l Well any Marxist would say that of course not. Socialism is supposed to be the radical expansion of democracy into the everyday life, not just a formal legal form as it exists under capitalism

[Israe5l]

@MikeCDawg You are right. Its hard to convince someone, in America, that communism is demoncracy.

[TheFlanker35]

@Israe5l,

Oh, it isn't that hard to convince me that it's demonocracy. Seriously though, democracy is only important to the extent it provides the individual with freedom. Freedom and a Republic first, democracy second.

[Israe5l]

@TheFlanker35 Too much freedom may not be all that good. For example we are facing technology that gives us unbounded freedom. Its not the defense of freedom that we need, we need people to practice freedom. So we only need so much of freedom.

[Israe5l]

@MikeCDawg Sure a Marxist will say so, but with the hind sight of history, not just the out come of communism but also the history of "money".

[helenwhohelenwho]

What's the music at the end?

[bustergmaxx]

flame, mate, fantastic uploads.

Much love!

[DumblyBrilliant]

My dad used to say, "If you want to hear total b*ll*cks expressed in beautiful but obscure language, listen to a philospher."

He was right!

[Kinopio2000]

I see the apple didn't land far from the tree

[DumblyBrilliant]

@Kinopio2000 Indeed. He also said that Marx was nutcase, Marcuse a liar, Gramshi a nutcase and Communism/Socialism was responcible for approx 400 million deaths, much of them its own followers, so that showed what a crap idea it really was.

[Kinopio2000]

@DumblyBrilliant I was referring to you and your dad's phrase, which I find widely ignorant.

On the other hand, even though I am by no means a Marxist, I think Marcuse was onto some pretty interesting ideas that need to be considered in our present situation in which it is evident that capitalism is deeply flawed.

[DumblyBrilliant]

@Kinopio2000 Capitalism is not deeply flawed it is the Neo Cons that are flawed. Capitalism has spread more wealth to more people than any other system.  My father was spot on. Marcuse set out to undermine the west and he has done a very good job. "Watch, "The History Of Political Correctness" on Google video to see why. I was aware of your insult, I just chose to ignore it.

[ExMachine]

It has also concentrated more wealth in the hands of fewer people than ever before and increased the level of inequality. It is known that increases in income inequality also corelate with increases in crime, social atomization, anomie etc.

In addition, consumerist capitalism is driving the high level of ecological destruction via irrational demands for materials etc

[stevedekorte]

Thanks for posting the Magee series - hope to see more.

[barrymarshall]

Magee is right to take the Frankfurt School to task for the difficulty of some of their texts. Especially Adorno. It's hard to tell what he's saying sometimes in Aesthetic Theory and Negative Dialectics, though Dialectic of Enlightenment and Minima Moralia were okay.

[archdeaconj]

How to liberate ourselves from the pernicious effect of ordinary language was the challenge Adorno faced. The main task of the 'catalyst' groups was to counteract the control of consciousness by the dominant power structure. Marcuse has in mind more than media propaganda. We are largely manufactured beings. The ideology of the state is enshrined in all its institutions, as Marx said. Even he did not recognise how a culture's beliefs, values, attitudes etc. are embedded in language itself.

[barrymarshall]

well, Marx's aim is more simple: to provide the working class with an analysis of the workings of capital and what is required to overthrow it.

[archdeaconj]

Yes, but what is Adorno up to writing in this obscure way? Adorno saw that a culture's ideology is embedded in its language. This is not obvious. Even a casual utterance about a cup of coffee is saturated with ideology, which you can see if you unpack the meaning of 'coffee', 'cup' etc. I use the term ideology, as Marx did, to include beliefs, values, attitudes etc. Adorno was trying not only to circumvent this but communicate with the authentic, socially unconditioned part of ourselves.

[barrymarshall]

for Adorno, even though he didn't think the working class could overthrow it, the main enemy was "exchange society". Anti-semitism, the culture industry, language, etc, are all manifestations of the identitarianism of late capitalism. He is a materialist, like Marx.

[archdeaconj]

I wouldn't disagree wtih any of this, but how is this related to the difficulty and obscurity of Adorno's prose, which is the issue I am addressing (in response to your initial posting)?

[barrymarshall]

it is unnecessary, in my view

[NihilAdmirari]

@barrymarshall Fair enough regarding the difficulty of these texts; they are indeed highly specialized and require a lot of effort and patience. However, his university lectures are starting to appear in English recently, one after the other, and there the texts are as powerful and profound as they are sparkling. Also, I think his articles should be read more. This is, at least, Habermas' view; he is surprised that Aesthetic Theory is considered as Adorno's main work in the Anglophone world.

[barrymarshall]

Histroy and Freedom is indeed an excellent series of lectures. I cannot vouch for the others, however. I disaggree that AT is Adorno's key text. It's Dialectic of Enlightenment, surely?

[NihilAdmirari]

@barrymarshall I would disagree regarding AT, as well. Personally, I'd say it's Negative Dialectics. DoE is definitely a key text, but I wouldn't say it's Adorno's key, due to its being co-authored. At any rate, it is AT that is often taught in academia when you're studying Adorno.

[code933k]

I never thought I' d watch an interview like this in youtube. For this and all of your contributions I am grateful for life @flame0430

[uberrokk]

rockin' some new specs I see

[GordonMorrice]

Reality for language-bearing beings is made of words. Change the words, change reality. This is the secret if true magic, incidentally. A better world is, in a sense, already waiting for us, but we need to "decode" it into existence. If that sounds woo-woo-ish then you're simply hearing it wrong!

[CaptainBluebear08]

After the overkill of Quine, a refreshing breathe of leftwing thought with Marcuse. Breathing time.

[afterdaisy]

he is right that the structure of language can be conditioned and bent to fit the normative view. but surely that means one should be clearer in explicating one's ideas, rather than making it more obscure

[eltraficantedenubes]

Very good observation about philosophy and form, sintax, and gramar.

[CaptainBluebear08]

@eltraficantedenubes

and spelling...ahemm.

[code933k]

@eltraficantedenubes I hope you didn't meant form in the sense of syntax and grammar because they are -part of the- content indeed.