Comparing The Difference Between A Mega Drive Model 1 Audio To A Modified Model 2 Audio

[JUSXTREME96]

There are actually different hardware revisions of the Mega Drive other than the case. The earlier model 1 with HDG text (shown in video) and without HDG text but with ext port hole had better sound. Later model 1 without HDG and no ext port hole had muffled sound which was carried over to the earlier model 2. The mid life span model 2 had good sound but some sounds may be inaudible (mostly SMS games). IDK how "short motherboard" model 2's sound.

[MegaSonicdude10]

If you want good treble as well as lots of bass, do this mod to the MD2 and hook the output to an equalizer. You can then adjust the frequencies until you get the low end bass thump you need as well as adjusting the treble and other frequencies to your liking.

[Adam060756]

@MegaSonicdude10 Thanks for pointing that out, I actually had them both hooked up to an equalizer at the time but decided to record the two consoles ''naked'' without adding any custom pre-mixing from the equalizer to show how the two really sound without any extra outside higher quality.

[MegaSonicdude10]

@Adam060756 I also found this out recently and will use it on my project I dubbed "Sega Fusion+++". It will be like YouTuber thomas3120's Fusion project with some improvements. Anyway, hook the audio out to the CD audio out and that will fix all the audio issues. It will also play audio from the Genesis in 16 and 32 bit modes as well fixing the treble and distortion issues. That is what I plan on doing once I get to building my Fusion project. Will still use an equalizer on the output.

[LittleMichaelz]

I'll have to agree that the MD2 sounds better than the MD1. Even though the MD2 lacks bass, the MD1 sounds muffled and unclear, while the MD2 sounds clean and rich. I haven't really gotten into audio mods before on the Mega Drive, but I am getting more and more interested in the audio department. I'd personally like some more bass out of my MD2, so when I have some free time I will experiment with a low-pass filter, and then amplify the acquired signal. :)

[paulspydar]

just play all your audio devices through a decent spectrum analyzer & EQ (preferably one that has a pink noise generator with a condenser MIC for setting up the ideal speaker positions) then you can adjust the sound to your liking without having to mod, :-)

[SonicWariat1994PL]

With Model 2 better sound right, but my opinion is Model 1 pretty good ;)

[NUFC4LIFE001]

how is this a fair test if the md2 has been modified? i still profer the md1 sound though

[Adam060756]

@NUFC4LIFE001 Because if the md2 wasn't modified there would be no comparison, the md1 would win so to give the md2 a fair chance I modified the audio circuit.

Doesn't surprise me that you'd prefer the md1 sound.

[Gavin66627]

Lol you modded the model 2 and it sounds worse! it's muffled

[Adam060756]

@Gavin66627 Are you deaf?

Can't you hear the cymbals in the model 2?

There's no cymbals in the model 1.

[Gavin66627]

@Adam060756 no i think you might be tone deaf...no offence lol, it's like you've ripped the balls off it, it's a lot quieter and sounds like it's got a lisp! The model 1 has more bass and better quality. Why didin't you mod that 1 instead??

[Adam060756]

@Gavin66627 No offence either bit It ain't me that's deaf. It's clearly YOU!

I think you got the models mixed up in the sound comparision. The model 2 is much clearer and cleaner sounding, despite it's lower volume level. Hi-hats are heard in the beat of the music where they're not heard at all in the model 1. Model 1 has quantization noise and a snare lisp which is not present in later model 2 ASIC-based YM2612's.

Model 1's can't be improved in sound so it's pointless trying to mod them.

[Gavin66627]

@Adam060756 Well all you've done is make it hiss more, the model 1 sound is perfect, it's more fuller and retro. Maybe it's just a preverence thing, or maybe you just really love your hi hats

[Adam060756]

@Gavin66627

Model 1 has more bass.

Model 2 has more treble.

It's really just down to personal preference to each listener on what they prefer. It's not down to what sounds better as fact. To each his own.

And yeah I love treble myself, I prefer treble over lots of bass.

[Brumbazzen]

Battle Squadron and Hellfire sounds best on Model 1, but some other games sounds better on model 2...its a difficult question :)

[mattsprinter]

I can hear all the noises from the model 1 perfectly. Sure, it sounds a little muffled but I'd prefer that than losing bass; and the hissing is just because it's analog and it's turned up too high. All analog signals do that when turned up too high.

[Silver7460]

My SMD2 sounds better, few games run faster (Bloodshot, Mig29)

[Adam060756]

@Silver7460 I highly doubt that. The SEGA Mega Drive model 2 sound circuit in this video was modded to perfection.

[NateN34]

Um, the model 2 sounds worse, by far.

[figaro589]

coming back to this video, I can hear more hissing from the model 2 with headphones on.

but don't get me wrong, both consoles are awsome! my model 1 is region modded so it can play any game from any region. I didn't bother widening the cart slot because it's an asian one and the asian ones already have the wider slot just like the japanese ones :)

[RonPaulMountainBiker]

I love the bass on the first one and the treble and definition on the first.

How can I hook up my genesis model 2 to my amplifier?

[Adam060756]

@RonPaulMountainBiker You need the model 2 AV out cable.

[figaro589]

are you sure you're using a model 1 with "high definition graphics" laballed on the machine?

[Adam060756]

@figaro589 Yep.

[ScorpianViper]

i pretty much like Genesis, i have that, but too bad no mega drive. i wanna try out mega swiv, but yea. ty for showing this.

[Watcher3223]

For the model 2, most may require modification to improve the sound quality, which are models that have had the YM2612 and the PSG integrated into the VDP LSI.

Or, you can try to find a rare model 2 variant that has a separate YM2612 on the motherboard, though the PSG is integrated into the VDP LSI (which is typical of Genesis/Mega Drive boards).

I own a model 2 which has clear sound without mods.

Board numbers:

On top:

PC BD MD2 VA2.3 USA

On bottom:

© SEGA 1995

171-7039B-10

[Christuserloeser]

I freaking hate this video for its incorrect description.

[Adam060756]

@Christuserloeser So why are you still coming here bitching about it then? Nobody's forcing you to watch it. You're purposely choosing to come here and bitch about it almost like you have nothing better to do. Read the video description and annotations properly instead of whinging.

Just because of your whinging I put the word ''modified'' in the title. Satisfied now?

[texyanks25]

@Adam060756 ok first of all i dont America is so great even though i live here, and especially for video games. japan is the best country when talking about video games.But you can't deny that america has had a huge part in video games, and if you do then your just simply retarded.

[Adam060756]

@texyanks25 I'm well aware dude that America has played a big part in the development of video games within the gaming industry and they have introduced and contributed alot of great and wonderful things to the world but as for making 16-bit video games back in the day, they were inferior to SEGA of Japan and Europe. It's only my opinion dude so don't jump on me. I'm not defending this shit hole where I live either.

[Christuserloeser]

@Adam060756 Yes! Thanks a lot! It took 15 years to come up with solid evidence that a stock model1 with HDG logo is superior to a model2 (didn't help that there are different variants for each model).

And yes, a modified model2 is potentially better than a model1 thanks to the higher resolution of the model2's digital to analog converter. Doesn't change the fact that there's no regular model 2 that sounds anywhere near as good as a regular HDG model 1.

-I came here via a link by koolkitty89 btw.

[Adam060756]

@Christuserloeser okay, but my video does indeed prove however complicated the modification is to do that you can get a superior audio output from the model 2 as they do sound clearer and of higher quality than a muffled headphone jack of a HDG stock model 1 which I cannot stand. Since the very first time you commented on this video I went ahead and changed a few things mentioning that the model 2 was ''modified'' so I did make it clear and now it's even clearer.

[Watcher3223]

@Christuserloeser

'And yes, a modified model2 is potentially better than a model1 thanks to the higher resolution of the model2's digital to analog converter.'

Please look up the data sheet of a YM-2612.

Unlike a chip like, say, the YM-2151, the 2612 used in the Genesis/Mega Drive does not require a matched D/A converter for the output; the output is analog at pins 21 and 22 and the 2612 output is mixed with the PSG output by the mixing circuit.

[Watcher3223]

However, what makes the HDG model 1 have a high level of background hiss despite its overall good sound is its headphone amp (the only way to get line level stereo output without modifications is through the headphone output) is noisy.

The non-HDG model 1 has a high level of distortion on top of the hiss from the headphone amp as, apparently, whoever designed the mixer circuit allowed it to drive the summed signal into clipping before it gets to the headphone amp circuit.

[Watcher3223]

In the case of most model 2 boards, the output circuit was designed poorly; not driving the signal into clipping, but was nonetheless noisy by itself possibly because of EM leakage from within the VDP LSI but most likely due to inadequate band pass filtering in the mixing circuit.

In addition, the implementation of the 2612 into the VDP LSI for most model 2 boards had allowed compatibility issues to occur with a small handful of games.

[Watcher3223]

@Christuserloeser

Correction: pins 20 and 21 are the analog outputs of the 2612. 22 is for the 2612's internal D/A; which is why the chip does not require an external matched D/A converter.

[Adam060756]

@benanderson88 I have not killed the bass completely, the model 2's bass level is slightly lower that's all and the headphone jack of the model 1 does not sound better than the modified model 2. Didn't you hear how muffled the model 1 sounded? The music from model 1 sounded like it was recorded in a cheap low budget recording studio without applying the dolby noise reduction.

[koolkitty8989]

The PSG is the most noticeable in terms of the lack of filtering though. (but that's one part that is technically equal on both -opposed to the YM2612 which was improved in Sega's ASIC implementation)

You could probably mod a model 1 to bypass the filtering. (wouldn't help the fade-out/sustain or quantization noise though -and you could bypass the headphone amp too)

[Adam060756]

@koolkitty8989 I tryed doing that as I mentioned in my annotation at the end. I tryed bypassing the model 1's audio output from the cartridge straight to the stereo amplifier without it running through the headphone jack sound circuit and it actually sounded worse as the volume level was far too quiet and I could hear radio interference so I gave up, it most likely can be done like you said providing we buy parts for it to tweak the volume, bass and treble levels to our own desire.

[koolkitty8989]

Finally, the YM2612 itself is an 8-bit chip, technically speaking. :P

But looking again, I guess the square waves could be psg (I mistook stereo effects from you messing with the lines) but it's nearly impossibe to tell a 4-op FM square wave from the PSG unless they use stereo or exceed the PSG's limited frequency range. (or you separate the audio lines)

[Adam060756]

@koolkitty8989 I myself can also tell whether a square wave is coming from the FM chip or the PSG chip. If a square wave has a high frequency output than it's coming from the PSG chip and if it's stereo or lower frequency than it's coming from the FM chip. In the model 2's that's how it sounds, but in the model 1's if a square wave has no treble and is hardly noticable than it's coming from the PSG chip and if it sounds a bit clearer than it's coming from the FM chip.

[koolkitty8989]

The filtering you apply at the end is WAY more than the M1's... I guess I'm sensitive enough to the treble to hear pretty much everything in both... The difference is less severe than toggling the low pass filter in Kega Fusion, for example. (it would be neat to compare Fusion too)

Again, I notice the other flaws from the discrete YM2612 that Sega's ASIC removed, but that's independent of filtering.

[Adam060756]

@koolkitty8989 I know the filtering I applyed with the fading was WAY more higher than the original model 1, I was just showing off my audio mod at the end with the fading and switching speakers. as for the emulators, yeah it would be nice to throw that in the mix aswell but it's not the real hardware therefore i'm not really interested.

[koolkitty8989]

It doesn't kill the bass, it just doesn't filter the treble: you can filter it yourself with an equalizer in a stereo system (and many TVs), and he did use the headphone jack, though the AV port is higher quality other than being mono. (cheap headphone amp adds a little hiss)

The difference if bigger for those with poor treble sensitivity (or damaged hearing), where the high treble is important.

The sound chip in the m2 is superior in general though.

[koolkitty8989]

Also, the recording sound much louder for the model 1 in general, so it skews things.

An unmodded model 2 (VA0/1.x) will have even higher bass due to the muffled output and poor audio amp, of course. The VA2 has a descrete YM2612, like a model 1, but different filtering and odd, off volume for the PSG. CD-X should be close to a modded M2 as I said, Nomad and X'Eye fairly close too, VA3/4 M2 somewhat less but way ahead of the VA7 m1 or VA0/1.x m2.

[koolkitty8989]

Yeah, the model 2's audio is technically superior to a discrete YM2612 (lower resolution, hence the odd decay on the snare and quantization noise), plus there's no filtering like on the model 1: of course, you need a mod for this to show. (VA3/4 m2s are OK, but not that clear -CD-X is closer, but not quite there)

You can filter a modded model 2 for more bass and keep the other advantages.

And that "8-bit" sound is FM square waves from the YM2612 I'm almost positive. (the PSG is only mono)

[Adam060756]

@koolkitty8989 The 8-bit sounds are not FM, the 8-bit sounds are square waves from the 8-bit SN76489 PSG sound chip also found in SEGA's Master System.

The drums, bass guitar and stereo echoes of the square wave are all FM from the Yamaha YM2612 sound chip.

I call the two sound chips the simple names of 16-bit and 8-bit audio to tell the difference for those that don't know all the technical talk.

[mattsprinter]

The bass was rather awesome for 16 bit games. I'd rather hear more 16 bit sounds than 8 bit sounds from a genesis/mega drive. The model 2 lacks both of these.

[Adam060756]

@mattsprinter Dude both models have the same sound chips so they both have the same 16-bit and 8-bit sounds.

Model 2 only lacks a bit of vibration in the bass while model 1 lacks alot of treble.

[mattsprinter]

@Adam060756 I know they both have the capabilities but to me, the model 1 still sounds better. Probably because I have sensitive hearing.

[Adam060756]

@mattsprinter I understand and you can prefer which ever model you want but in your original comment you said that the model 2 lacks both 16-bit sounds and 8-bit sounds which is not true, the only difference is that both models output the audio differently. Model 2 has alot more high frequency while model 1 has a bit more bass. I myself am a treble person so I tend to go for those sharp high end sounds which the model 2 does perfectly. But if you prefer model 1 then that's fine of course.

[mattsprinter]

@Adam060756 ............I didn't mean it lacks the sounds or else what good would video game sound be? People would still have a magnavox odyssey to keep improving. But yes; you can definetely hear faint, treble sounds better.

[texyanks25]

more people Know the genesis then the mega drive

[Adam060756]

@texyanks25 It should be the other way around. Mega Drive should be the more dominant name considering it's known as the ''Mega Drive'' all over the world except North America and Canada.

Over here where I live, if you call it a ''Genesis'' everybody won't know what you're talking about but if you say ''Mega Drive'' then it will register in their minds.

[texyanks25]

@Adam060756 yea but usa is da best . if there was no america there wouldnt be any video games.

[Adam060756]

@texyanks25 U.S.A. is one giant shit hole! And i'm glad I don't live there.

Just because America started video games doesn't make them the best. SEGA of America is inferior compared to SEGA of Japan and Europe.

[texyanks25]

@Adam060756 hey dick head if there was no america you wouldnt be playing xbox because microsoft is a 100 % american company so suck on that. And if there was no america there wouldn't be atari so there wouldnt be any video games in the first place.

[Adam060756]

@texyanks25 Who said anything about Xbox or Atari?

Hey wanker, if you don't like the video, why don't you do us all a favour and fuck off out of here! Stop wasting my time with your useless comments.

It's original name is MEGA DRIVE so get over it.

[texyanks25]

@Adam060756 fuck u dont tell me what i can and can't do see i live in america so i have a thing called freedom so im gonna what ever the fuck i want to.

[Adam060756]

@texyanks25 I wasn't telling you what to do, I was asking you to leave the video because all you're comments are negative and you're wasting my time. It's the fact that you think just because you live in America it makes you superior over everybody else is the very reason what I dislike about America. You're nothing special and neither is your nation, you're just like the rest of us so wake up to yourself and go away!

[Alianger]

Nice comparison, but I suggest editing the title of the vid.

[Adam060756]

I'm not changing it to ''Genesis''

''Mega Drive'' sounds much better.

[Alianger]

@Adam060756 to "Modded" of course, lol.

[Christuserloeser]

@Alianger I have asked him to do the same thing numerous times but I think he really does prefer to mislead people.

[andyukmonkey]

@ coltermegasxlr, This music is from Lemmings.

[coltermegasxlr]

What's the song from?

[Christuserloeser]

Dude, you've modified it. A stock model sounds totally different.

Go to Wikipedia and check the Audio section of the Mega_Drive article and compare for yourself.

[Adam060756]

Of course I modified it, if I didn't then there would be no competition.

Without modifying the model 2, the model 1's going to sound better.

[Christuserloeser]

@Adam060756: Well, I didn't notice that you mentioned it anywhere... and you claim that this video would be a Comparison of "The Difference Between A Mega Drive Model 1 Audio To A Model 2 Audio". No mention of it being modified.

Aside of the VA7 model 1, the last model 1 produced, any model 1 will sound waaaay better than a stock model 2.

[Adam060756]

You obvisously didn't read all the on screen annotations, if you did you would notice that I did mention that the model 2 was modified through out my descriptions but I will make it more clear from now on.

Whether it's modified or not you have your audio proof which means that model 2's sound waaaay better.

Stock Model 1's have faults that nobody seems to pick up on, they suffer from having no treble in the PSG sound chip and a muffley sound in the background with no noise reduction.

[Christuserloeser]

@Adam060756: It's pretty common knowledge that in theory the model 2 ASIC (which contains a SEGA clone of the YM2612) is capable of cleaner sound than the model 1's original Yamaha chip. It's using a better DAC. That doesn't change the fact that any unmodified model 2, those that people can buy at ebay, WILL sound terrible thanks to its horribly bad analogue parts; exactly like the example on Wikipedia and NOWHERE NEAR as good as your modified model 2.

[Adam060756]

I had no idea that model 2's used clones?

the funny thing was that I was able to modify the model 2 sound circuit to perfection due to it having cheaper parts inside on the board then the original models.

I thought to myself it would only be a fair one on one test if the model 2 was modified so it would stand a fair chance against an original HDG model 1, if I didn't modify the model 2 I would not have made this video because like you said they do sound horrible without modification.

[Lachlant1984]

What game were you playing? How can you fade the 8 bit audio up and down like that? How did you manage to do that thing with the highs and 8 bit audio whilst dropping the bass and other sounds during the video there?

[Adam060756]

I didn't mention this before but my moddified audio connections that come straight out of the console are actually running through a cassette player out and ins which is connected to my amplifier, it's just set up through my cassette player so I could fade the 8-bit audio and when I turn the cassette player on record mode, the recording level button is in use which has the 8-bit audio running through it, and that button allows me to fade the sound up and down and set it to my own desired spot.

[Riddler95]

I don't know...

I actually think that the model 1 sounds louder, but the model 2 is tiny bit more clear.

Most Genesis games are Mono, however quite a few are Stereo, you can output Stereo sound from a SEGA Genesis Model 1 with a Stereo Cable.

[Anthraxegott]

Comparing a standard console with modded one is like comparing apples and pears really.

Although I like the concept of splitting the channels still I prefer the HD model 1, considering that´s what I grew up, playing on.

The bassy sound is a part of it´s identity.

Still have it, by the way. Works like a charm,even after 20 years.

Either way, it´s a nice mod, and you did a good job on it.

[Adam060756]

Thank you for your comment, yeah the HD original models sound very good much better than a ordinary model 2 Infact I still have one in perfect working order aswell. Yes bass is apart of it's identity but so is treble and tone which is what I prefer, I wanna hear that clear high frenquency output more than a flat bass output. Another thing I like about the model 2's is they have a better cartridge slot with a protected cover for each of the little cartridge chips and the cartridge fits in higher.

[D313370r]

I still Like the model 1's audio more. maybe cause I am a bassist, and therefore I am biased to prefer bass to treble. I can hear everything in the model 1 version that I can hear in the model 2. I think the model 1 sounds more full. Also, I don't understand how to get stereo out of a model 2, did you get some special cables? for a model 1 all you need to do is plug a connector into the headphone jack to the RCA.

[Adam060756]

Are you serious! You'd rather model 1's audio which is muffled and suffers from low frequency in treble over the clear high frequency model 2? In model 1 you can't hear the hi-hats in the drum beat at all and it sounds very loose like it has no dolby noise reduction in it, which means you can hear hissing sounds in the background. Anyway it's your opinion and I respect it but model 2 is truly more superior in sound especially in treble and high frequency sound. Model 1 is only better in bass.

[Adam060756]

And the answer to your question on getting stereo sound out of a model 2, there is a cable you can buy off e-bay if you're lucky called the SEGA video/audio 2 metre long cable which plugs straight into the TV from the back of the console but mine was modded in a very diffrent way as I originally didn't have that cable so I had to open up the model 2 and shove a whole lotta speaker wire inside and connect it manuelly to the RCA plugs and run it through the stereo amplifier and TV, It was a bitch.

[ShoeRONICS]

Can you do another video post of this comparison, but use the song 'IRON BLUE INTENTION' (the regular boss song) from Castlevania: Bloodlines?