Bishop Jones on the UM Worldwide Nature amendments

[scientastic]

I take a similar stance on the problem: that perhaps some parts of the denomination around the world do not get proper representation.

However, there is no need to vote on this now before we know exactly what the committee will set up. Let us see exactly what the new structure will be and then vote on it.

Good legislation-- and PARTICULARLY constitutional amendments-- are clear, specific and unambiguous. I feel too many of our amendments this year do not have these qualities.

[kbj76]

I am taking Maxie Dunnam's stance.

[NUKD]

At General Conference 2004 one liberal delegate responded to an African's statement on homosexuality: "Obviously this issue is more of a problem in some cultures (hear "regions") than in others."  Bishop Jone's intentions are fine. But these amendments will be misused by others to fracture our unity.

[NUKD]

These amendments ask us to sign a blank check -- we won't know until the 2012 task force reports what the new structure will be, how much it will cost and what issues will be handled separately. All we know for sure is the voice and vote of the developing world will be less in the matters that come before the US Church.

[leahrose215]

Is it that the liberals are afraid of the conservative church in africa swinging the votes or, are people afraid of the african church taking control of the votes. according the eddy fox's video-it's almost 40% non-US church membership, but voting members at general conference is 80% US. if we shift to regional conferences then the US loses their significant power. Perhaps we need to consider the current arrangement as colonialism.

and fdgdsch, Bishop Jones has NEVER been called liberal.

[sheyduck]

"if we shift to regional conferences then the US loses their significant power."

What power? (I don't mean that sarcastically - what or which power is the US trying to hold on to?) Is it power we (the US) needs to or ought to hold on to?

[leahrose215]

I actually would argue it's a power that many desire to keep that is not actually the US's to control. The loss of political UM power (to make decisions on discipline and judicial cases) is significant. It's needs to be a willingness of the US UMC to allow the equality of numbers to be represented. I think what part of the problem is, that there are many who believe that they deserve the power and that the power should remain where it is.

[fdgdsch]

Actually, Bishop Jones is a frequent guest of the liberal Reconciling Ministries Network, of which I am a supporter. I agree with you that the current distribution of delegates is an example of colonialism (or, worse yet, outright racism). What makes many so suspicious is that although Bishop Jones "says" in thsi video that Regional Conferences will not create their own doctrinal and social principles, the fact that the amendment contains no language to that effect is a dangerous blank check.

[fdgdsch]

So we are going to become a more "global" church by creating a separate US region? Please! "Regional conferences will not be addressing doctrinal or social issues?" He knows full well that it is already being done down to the level of Annual Conferences. "Why act now?" The real reason is that liberals see the growing African church (very conservative) as a threat to their power and to their far left social and doctrinal agenda. I pray you will exhibit more honesty in the future, Bishop Jones.

[sheyduck]

I haven't decided on the amendments yet, but the Bishop sounds pretty sure of how this is all going to shake out. Someone save a copy of this video.

[theseniorrev]

It will not do any good to save a copy of the video once it is passed...it will be constitutional regardless!!

[sheyduck]

but to save a video record to catalog Jones' promises of what will/will not happen as a result might be interesting.

[theseniorrev]

Classic, bureacratice, Bishop "happy talk"....if you trust them, then vote "YES" on everything they recommend...if you believe the devil is in the details, you had better wait until Gen. Conf. 2012 to see what you are voting on!!! A word to the wise.

[strayvideo]

I DO believe in looking clearly, honestly and frankly at all these issues, reserving the right to ask our bishops about their planning, vision and foresight. However, I also believe that contemptuous responses like yours do little to forward intelligent conversation.

Senior Rev- ACT like one, please. You are called to reflect Christian principles in all your words and actions, guiding your flock and (presumably) your staff in ways that show Christ, not your sardonic wit.