Why Your Terran Macro Sucks - SC2 Noob School

[RepThatFoSkin]

But the not pro had to build other structures and scout and build marines! so inaccurate

[wirman777]

you kinda remind me of pewdiepie XD good videos ^^

[WildBassfly]

the reason this video is bad is because you show what the person is doing wrong but you make no suggestions as to how he can improve.

[54jb3r7]

supply depot following orbital upgrade is standard practice for any terran that walls in.

[pmixen1]

whoa, I feel like suuch a bad sc2 player seein this guy being so much better and yet being called bad :(

[LesPaul2006]

9:18 he NEEDED the supply depot to avoid getting swarmed, right?

[Tyman2006]

@LesPaul2006 It's not so much the issue with that he shouldn't have built it, it's that he should've waited 10-15 seconds before building it. So, it wasn't wrong that it was made, it was just a little too early, and with early buildings means that you will probably be short 1-2 units.

Not very much in all honesty, but say, in a high master game, every little thing matters.

[Vavaxman]

this is the exact kind of tutorial i was looking for! thanks

[SCnixy]

this was very helpful. thanks!

[stjepko357]

I love u man.

[BradenR3]

Hey, I just switched from protoss to terran

and I have trouble with my

1.) SCV production late game( late midgame)

and 2.) Depot timing

I keep getting supply blocked to. D:

[Nr1mainstreamhater]

2:45 you stack up workers...

[l100u]

@GUARDIANOFFOR he has a life even is he didnt he has more of a life than you. Siting there making fun of people on youtube yep you have a life

[boejha]

lame, you dont make an army !!

[psyndikit]

Hey Trebis, first off awesome video.....2nd off, i don't know if it is possible for you to show the best way to select all bldgs of the same, (i.e. all rax )and make units from each of them at the same time and just the best way to practice macro(ing)?

[Disturbed763]

/watch?v=Ztk-A4msVWE

THIS is a split.

[samtheguy25]

I'm actually really curious about how good you really are. You criticize players alot, but most of those criticisms are pretty useless. The Terran was quite good for a silver league player. Those supply depots were there for a wall in. He went for double gas because he was playing Terran mech. You should start uploading your own videos for a change.

[Typhlosion261]

I learnt not to watch Noob School.

[majorhuman]

I think you've made a mistake in the demonstration of how many SCVs you can make in 10 minutes. The game timer is on 7:35 not 10!

Nice vid tho :)

[IPWNBXRmash]

im a plat player but im subbing, im picking up some stuff i didnt know from ur videos i watched a few of them, but id also like to play with u some time and then u watch the replay and tell me what i did wrong, so i can improve it haha

[Ionizationification]

hey, i'm in the silver leauge!

[nywolfpack]

I find it funny you a bitching about the terran and he is kicking the zerg's ass.

[MrNoobiestarcraft]

yeah i think the guy in this video was ok on all of the tasks not perfect of course but the guy was way over criticising him. i wanna see the commentator play.

[TheWarriorSC2]

...is this one of my games...

[fergieworld1222]

Depot laid down prevented zergliongs from running in the base...

[Curucuncucus]

This videos a sooo great. Thanks so much.

[Curucuncucus]

This videos a sooo great. Thanks so much.

[Kaiser2241]

why your terran macro sucks: you didnt build marines

[Thedreamshaperabc]

Why bother making all those SCV´s ? he is on 1 base, 20 is all he needs. Making 30 would just be 10*50=500 wasted minerals -_-

[chucklez117]

@Thedreamshaperabc Thats why you're watching this video, 30 is a good amount!

Why you may ask? 1. enough scvs to transfer to your're natural when you expand

2. You do need alot of workers to saturate a main, 20 isnt enough!

3. This goes along with 2, and since you like math so much, 8(mineral nodes) x 2 (workers per min patch) plus 6(for saturation of gas) plus 4(extra workers cause 2 isnt quite enough to fully saturate) =26!!! so 20 isnt enough workers for a main.

well im out of characters

[TheRTLife]

He forgot a KEY element to macro. Multitasking. When the terran attacked he quit production and got 1500+ minerals in the bank. This isn't easy of course and takes lots of practice but it is probably the single biggest element to good high level macro. When attacking or micro'ing make sure to build more production buildings and continue queing units.

[Anizerda1st]

The second supply depot isn't. Ever heard of a wall-in?

[jimijumjum86]

i disliked this tutorial because your comparing yourself playing on the build order map to the other dude who is playing a real game, obviously you would have more mins to make scv's if your not pumping out units. Try to look at your tutorials in someone elses perspective not your own.

[Koedo]

@jimijumjum86 You should not delay your scv's for pumping out units if you're not going to use them. scv's should have priority on minerals if you want a solid economy.

[RelVleDy]

Also, I notice the blue player only builds one new Supply Depot at a time. Early on, this is fine, but if you watch Day[9], he's perfectly fine with players placing two Supply Depots at a time mid-late game. He notes you'd be surprised how quickly your supply shoots up in mid-late. And plus, 100 minerals mid-late isn't something to cry home about. Plus, Supply Depots make great free scouts - place 1-3 outside the edges of your base. If the opp destroys them, big whoop. The intel is priceless.

[knudz3]

Thanks for this :)

[paulsturr]

As a new SC and Terran player, this video helped me out immensely. I had the basic concept of what I need to do as a Terran player to have a shot mid game thanks to your Terran Opener, but I still kept losing. I never could figure out why. With me being a noob, I had no idea what to look for. SCNOOBSCHOOL here we come! So now I am watching the replays with some sense of direction on what I did well and what I need to improve on. Thank you! Make more Terran Strat Videos!

[MucMonsta]

thank's for that video, your video's are really informative.

[superhampelpampel]

Just wanted to mention, the lessons about when to supply depots is right in general. But in this game without the second supply depot earlier, the lings would have come in and the 8/9/10-Pool would have worked :D

[kylesoule]

I'm at 30 SCV's @ the 10 minute mark...the professional I'm copying the build from hits 33 @ 10 minutes...I think SCV production is probably the most important thing for new players to remember.

[Vinicide]

I noticed a big problem with my beginning terran macro that I can't seem to nail down. I will do 10 supply, 12 rax, with constant scv production. However, when the rax is near completion I hit a wall where I can either make one last scv, which delays my orbital by about 10 seconds or so, or I cut scv production for about 10 to 15 seconds to wait for the rax to finish so I can get the orbital exactly when it's done. Is there a way to time that out better?

[SC2NoobSchool]

@Vinicide Not sure why this is happening without seeing your game, but check out my video for "Standard Terran Opener"

[gopherCA]

@Vinicide WTF 12 RAX?

[RelVleDy]

@Vinicide It's been two months, but I'll respond for others who need help. It comes down to flawless timing. Place the depot at precisely 100 minerals at 10 supply, the Rax at 150 minerals at 12 supply, the refinery at 13 supply (to keep your minerals low), and as soon as your Rax is done (assuming constant SCV prod), you'll hit precisely 200 minerals. Spend it on the Marine and OC as simultaneously as possible. Queue 2nd SCV's when viable to ensure no down-time. My replay available on request.

[MDKVinicide]

@RelVleDy Thank you so much, I will have to practice this. My timing has gotten a little better but not as sharp as I'd like it to be.

[spriteSC2]

@Vinicide Yup. I get this too if I'm as tight as possible with the build. I tend to just get the last scv, as it means there's no down time, even if the orbital is very slightly late.

[KopfImSand]

@Vinicide its because of the new patch. You should do the 16 OC. There is a thread on Teamliquid which covers this pretty well.

[turnipus]

@Vinicide not since the increase rax build time (it used to be possible to line up rax finishing with scv #15 popping out), you should make oc on 16 for macro games or on 15 for an early all in.

[macronewb]

@Vinicide You talking about the 15 or 16 oc, most people go for the 15 oc to get the mule out asap. Even though your 16th scv would be almost half complete anyway.

[TetrisRosti]

@macronewb There's actually an analysis on TeamLiquid where someone has shown that in the long run 16oc tends to be better. 15oc gives a boost of minerals that can be useful for some builds, but once things stabilise you end up with slightly fewer

[Shaeman111]

whoa whoa heyyyy man, that 2nd depot was perfectly fine.

[WorldOfGameCast]

The 2nd supply depot was perfectly timed

[MrLollipop1969]

his second supply was just to wall in....

[RelVleDy]

@MrLollipop1969 For the wall-in, I noticed blue did have a scout in the opp base, so when he noticed the Lings, he suspected a rush. He was right to wall-in asap, but imho his building choice was wrong. He could have walled in with the bunker and saved the supply depot for later. Then, salvage the bunker as he pushes or takes his second base.

[Koedo]

@MrLollipop1969 He could wall in with a bunker and recicle it later. It would help defending the next pushes too.

[FFLchamps]

@MrLollipop1969 exactly this guy thinks he knows all wat an idiot.........but he can still beat me prob xD

[AluminatiGaming]

Hey, Trebis PLEASE make more videos, they help lower players alot more than just watching replays from top players

[SC2NoobSchool]

@AluminatiGaming Glad to hear they help! What kind of stuff do you want to see?

[AluminatiGaming]

@SC2NoobSchool Thanks for answering and basic mistake videos like this would be appreciated. I like how you analyse < diamond league videos. Maybe for other races than terran please. Also micro videos similar to the "like a boss" series for Forcesc2gaming. :)

[brohmes]

@SC2NoobSchool would love to see more 2v2 strategy videos.

[pplus0440]

@SC2NoobSchool

 would love to see more 2v2 strategy videos.

[brohmes]

@SC2NoobSchool would love to see more 2v2 strategy videos.

thanks!

[pplus0440]

@SC2NoobSchool Trebis, used your videos and now i am platinum. Just to answer alums question since I just recently emerged from the low levels.... First off you got to understand that right now low level games involve much different strategy than high level games. Almost every game I have played involved the 6 min push. so videos you should make are.

1. How to beat a 4 gate

2. How to get the biggest army possible at 6 mins

3. How to defend the 6 min push without cutting economy

[jeffsstt]

@SC2NoobSchool yea this stuff is great for me being a huge noob at this point... i only have trouble coordinating it all. do you hotkey all your cc's and buildings? shit just hits the fan when i get my 3e base up and all of sudden i am microing units,trying to build scv's while the womens voice is urging me to make supplies and half my building are not doing shit. :) hotkey techniques would be super usefull cus i think the once i use are flawed. tnx for all the work bro!

[FFLchamps]

@SC2NoobSchool show us how to micro not wat microing is ik how to do it but i just cant show me how to and were i could set my units to get a little edge =] thx

[fredarmando]

Nice video, Trebis. And the webcam thing is cool. Keep doing it. :)

[Ninitos1]

i think it's better to be 1 supply ahead everytime....it's 100 minerals and grants you a lot of things...100 minerals make 1 marauder or 2 marines or 2 scv....not a big deal compared to what the extra supply gives you psycologically(terms of moral) and when u wanna pump up unitz...lots of them.nice video!

[lolispain]

Loving your terran videos Trebys, thank you very much my hairy friend.

My main problem is always having more mineral and less gas. I dont know where spend all those minerals, coz i tend to do a lot mech, maybe i will get more barracs an pup marines?? no idea :/.

Your channel is my favourite. Cheers from Spain terran girls.An affectionate hug. (You very sexy whit beard)

[lilrhan12]

Hey Trebis. I'm that Terran in the video. Thanks for pointing out what i need to improve on. I learned a lot from your critique. I have realised that my ability to make SCV's constantly has costed me a lot of games because I'm unable to gather as much then my opponent in the long run.. Thanks a lot for picking this video out. I honestly didn't know a channel like this existed until a friend of mine pointed this video out. I'm already a fan and I hope to improve in the future. :]

[SC2NoobSchool]

@lilrhan12 Haha, very glad to hear you enjoyed it! I always wondered if people would notice me casting their replays ;)

[crystalnite]

@lilrhan12 YO WHAT UP TURHAN BEIN PUT ON BLAST OVER 2200 VIEWS O SHITTTTT

[TaireyHesticles]

Also, I always make a faster second depot against zerg, but only zerg. I know it is very common to wall against zerg, especially in lower leagues where 1/3 of the games you play are holding off a super aggressive enemy. (I don't call it cheese because in S. Korea it is simply known as being aggressive.)

[TaireyHesticles]

I just wanted to tell you that I love you. I mean this in the most manly, Sandy Ravage way, of course.

[rdj45]

Why even mention that the wall-in the terran did is a bad macro practice? Everyone knows you are suppose to get that early depot to wall in or those zergs would of fucked him up. Other than that good video.

[Insyris]

your beard is immaculate

[Whodrankmycoke]

lol im sorry 30 minus harass, pressure, u pusing out urself. PROFESSIONAL FAIL

Also that supply depot he didnt need saved him from losing lots of scv's from those 6 lings. 100Cash is better than losing 2-3scv's. How do u even coach people + he came out on top because he killed more than the supply depot cost worth of lings.

[wongsinghowe]

pls make one for protoss too... tq

[gundam0051]

wouldn't this be slightly invalid as in the build order tester you didn't seem like you were building attacking units and that wouldn't be very accurate to actual matches.

[nyc863]

@gundam0051 you build everything with money left over AFTER building continuous SCVs. Anything less than that and you are doing some kind of all in that depends on a fast victory because your opponent (who IS doing that) pulls ahead in income per minute, and will then outproduce you, and shortly thereafter crush you. The point at which you stop building scvs because you have enough can be debated (too high, and your 200 army is not big enough, too low and you can't reinforce fast enough).

[MwFreezd]

@gundam0051 he had 1.7k minerals and 700 gas. Im pretty sure you dont need 1.7k minerals to build a few scvs. nice try though bronzy :)

[goldsmash9]

@gundam0051 its not invalid cos if ure macro is good most of the times u will have enough minerals to pump out an scv

[nyc863]

I have an easy to remember supply benchmark to aim for: 100 supply @ 12 minutes.

If you don't lose units in battles, and you do spend all your mined resources and you do build continuous scvs, then about 100 supply is reached at 12 minutes, off two bases.

Another thing, even pros build supply ahead of need. After their planned build taps out and they are in the thick of it, they start to build two and then three depots at a time and often have dedicated supply building scvs..

[thelostdudes]

Please make one of these videos for zerg.

[smithaa02]

Actually calldowns aren't a bad idea when you are mining out a base. He did the calldowns at about the 16 minute mark and patches start to run dry at 18 minutes. The faster the mule depletes a patch set, the more inefficient the SCV's become so in these cases taking the free 100m is better than borrowing 250m from future mining operations interest free.

[typhus148]

lol but missed scv aint a problem.... hence the mass scv, not op at all i mean y should T suffer for there mistakes

[FrVitoBe]

make 1 for zerg

[ThePhilosophyBoy]

Hey Trebis, if you know their going to push and your not using your factory or rax or whatever your not using on purpose you can lift is off place it at your ramp or your natrul to distract them for that extra 1 or 2 units.

[Rasmus0909]

Even though you had that white board, you seemed so unprepared. Seriously, I didn't subscribe for this, and luckily nothing is forcing me to do so.

[firetarp]

so thats how you look...

[tindanian]

a lot of these macro problems could apply to protoss too, and some to zerg.

[Eternldragon1]

The examples you gave was insightful to me and I will watch for these mistakes (even though I'm a protoss player). I think these are examples that can be applied at any level of game play

[Eternldragon1]

The picture web cam was fine. However comparing a silver player to yourself or any other pro is kind of comparing apples to oranges. As a new player to Starcraft and coming from the competitive fighting game scene. I am setting my goals more toward a platinum or diamond level player. Pro's players have an understanding of the game I just don't have at this point. This level of understanding comes with time, research, practice, and experience.

[masterkjn]

Im in silver my macro is decent but i find unit control and micro really hard as terran, Always loose because of bad unit control. But i do find macroing and unit control easier with zerg and toss - maybe i should stop playing terran

[dannyledwith21]

isn't over-saturation of scv's a problem as well?

[Iridiot]

@dannyledwith21 select all the scvs @ a base , then look at the total number of scvs if there are like 10 nodes all together ( 8 minerals 2 gas) then you should be looking @ 30 for optimal extraction

[Zaphodpwn]

@Iridiot Wrong, unless you are expanding. you need 2 per min patch (16) maybe a few extras, so 18, then 3 on each gas, so 24 for optimal mining.

[cuponoodles55]

@Zaphodpwn its actually 30. 3 for each patch and 3 for both gas

[Iridiot]

@Zaphodpwn so 2 for optimal , 3 = saturation ?

[pplus0440]

@Iridiot get the strategy guide dude there is a graph that shows you the diminishing returns pretty well.

[xujploxjux]

Two things,

1. If late game my mule macro slips if im not making scv's, i know thats 600 or 900 minerals a set at that stage, then ill make like 6 at one time (3 cc ofc) should i make more shit for that overproduction 900 minerals or keep my standard production buildings and have a small overclock of minerals?

2. If anyone replys to this, can you give me a rough ingame timer for getting a second and 3rd expo at the latest for a macro style of play as terran, somthing i should aim for. Thanks :)

[SC2NoobSchool]

@xujploxjux 1. You'll probably have to add on extra production structures for that. Very situational.

2. Can't really estimate a good time to get a second and third expo...it all depends on the build. Watch my video about expansion timing to learn when to get an expansion.

[bumblebumz]

Please make a zerg version of this

[lowfatfishsticks]

@bumblebumz Zergs choose to make attacking units or drones. Unlike protoss and terran, you don't make probes or scvs constantly. So when you make drones depends on what your opponent is doing and how much pressure he is putting on you. I don't think this can be made because it depends on the situation. I hope i helped.

[Reyson01]

I do all 4 in almost every battle apparently..I guess that's why I'm still in bronze -.-