@eagles5822 Preachers like Rob Bell are bringing into question fundamental doctrines like the virgin birth, hell, and whether or not homosexuality is a sin. They want to throw out the offensive things in the Bible to get more people to join their movement. Like Piper said, they want to build relationships, even at the expense of truth.
"Doctrines divide and relationships pull together". This is such a great way to sum up the whole movement. It's essentially the worship of man and the minimizing of God.
What happened to the words of john the baptist, "He must increase and I must decrease."?
because he does, and if the emergent church is going to be the the gospel centered movement i feel like it could be, then it needs to affirm this. the full scope of god - his love, his judgement - needs to be affirmed and lived out authentically in mission.
my experience with the emergent church hasn't looked like universalism/cheap grace.
it's look like community over institution, the leading of the holy spirit over man-made tradition, and a focus on mission. no, piper, this is not going away.
@missmachine7382 Agreed. The name "emerging church" may not be used in 10 years but the movement that is emerging within the church in America certainly will. Not all within this movement are unorthodox as Piper seems to indicate. Although Francis Chan may not fall under the "emerging church" category, his views are certainly challenging the status quo of "church in our country as we know it. Is he "unorthodox"? Check out the new book Steeple Envy from Vic Cuccia as well. steeple-envy.c om
the traditional church model is not working - i'm not saying the church is called to be culturally relevant, but we are called to take the gospel into culture. i dare say the church has been "of the world, but not in the world" rather than the other way around. i'm not saying the emerging church has it all together - they don't, in the least, but they have a nugget of truth at their core. namely, that truth is only discovered through relationship. i'm not saying god doesn't have finalities(cont)
why is it so often assumed that "orthodox" christianity and "emergent" christianity cannot be reconcilled? piper, like many others on this topic, is speaking in extremes, generalities, and false dichotomies. what the "emerging church" has going for them is the pushback against the structures of christendom, which are no longer working to save the lost. (con't)
@missmachine7382 no longer working to save the lost? there is a strong influx of people coming into eastern orthodoxy, the pentecostal movement is the fasting growing movement in China.. I tell you whats failing to save the lost are churches who preach relativism, Christians that have this trademark mentality that stick a fish on their bumper but flip u off when cut off... the christian that has pro life on their shirt but does nothing to help the widow.. hypocrisy is what fails to win souls..
i hope john is not simply dismissing the questions that have arisen from the 'emergent's and that he is saying Balance is needed; much of what now is termed as 'emergent', has been in my spirit all along. i feel it is godly to wrestle with the norm; many aspects of 'orthodoxy' make no sense to me either; i question why i believe what i believe. 2 Peter 1:10 make your calling and election sure; this is all the emergent's want to do. Are there any 'reasonable' saint's with which to reason with?
Does he ever once open his bible? No. Does he quote any verses or go back to the bible in any way? No. He merely gives his opinion. Glad that Christ is who I look to and not John Piper.
I find it a little ridiculous that he has the nerve to judge another person's heart simply by the doctrine one believes. He's very sarcastic about people he's never met and a type of church he's never experienced. I can understand that he disagrees with these beliefs but I find no hint of God's love toward the people he describes. He tends to forget that God is bigger than what he thinks is wrong. I honestly think the kind of church he describes is more like the church of Paul's time.
I find it tragically funny & ridiculously hypocritical when some Christians criticize the "Emergent Church". The irony is that the postmodernist view on "truth" is the only ALLY these "doctrinal" Christians have against rationality & science. Theological orthodoxy is a kind of solipsism & unorthodoxy seems 2 B more about political correctness. Neither has epistemological value & neither care about the truth anyways. It's called "faith" because it's not "knowledge".
@cre599 on what substance do you base your truth on and please dont tell me scripture because I can put 10 people to read the same scripture and come out with 50 different meanings.. instead of finding away that you like to worship God how about learning about God and finding out how he likes to be worshiped..
I hope he is right... I hope this deception fades away as fast as it appeared. Unfortunatelly, I think it will come back dressed up as something else. And yes he's right, it's a sick deception and should be exposed as such.
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
Im more disturbed by all the comments here....John is upholding and defending the truths found in Gods Word but all the comments on here are aimed at John.... For those of you who make all these comments(out of ignorance)you need to realize that even Christ was rejected and talked about for defending and explaining the truth to the people of his time.... So are you mad at John or what the Word has to say....?
Doctrine, beliefs and faith should be able to withstand questioning and thorough study. We need to seek truth instead of defending what we've been taught as truth.
March2010-it's bad. May2011-it's good. See John Piper interviews Rick Warren vids. Warren has kundalini yoga, contemplative prayer, chrislam etc but Piper doesn't rebuke him he embraces him. Emergence isn't dying it's assimilating others. Piper is infected with it. Now the Spririt speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. How long before Piper's people are going ommm ? Think Resist Repent!
I'm a non-believer; religion is a complete waste of time. "Emerging church" is just another fad that religion tries to pretend it's still alive and "relevant".
Unstable. If this clown is representative of a loving God(he isn't) then I'll just call myself a non-believer. Why are all these megachurch people so angry? They claim to have all the wisdom of the ages and yet they are utterly miserable. Amazing.
Well, if christians didn't treat people like second class citizens based on their marital or financial status they might stay longer and you wouldn't get all these different church movements.
After see and hearing much about John Piper, I have to say this. His faith is skubala. That's Greek for its a "pile of shit". Those are Paul's words, not mine.
The apostle Paul was one of the most religious people of his day. He upheld the traditions of his forefathers to the nth degree. He was a good man from a religious stand point, but a shitty man from a God stand point.
Why is it so many Christians have to attack each other? Won't the truth be known eventually if we let it speak?
Wow. I am a Christian with no personal stake in the emergent church, but this just seems like an unseemly rant...
Hmm ad hominem attacks rather than logical arguments..."a fading reality", "it has seen its best days, its leadership is in shambles"... Geez, did Rob Bell attack his wife or something?
His mocking gestures and dismissive facial expressions are childish. He might have a legitimate opinion but I dunno why he's covering it in that nonsense. The comments on blacks just made me laugh.
@dfpolitowski2 I'm sure Mr. Piper thinks he's defending the church against heresy, but I think it's completely unnecessary to wrap it in snideness, dismissiveness, etc. It makes me want to NOT listen to him.
There are enough problems in the world and we do not need more Christian infighting. John Piper should heed Scripture's warning to not slander, but be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger. He should try to understand or correct them with love, not just predict their demise.
Everyone has their own opinions on worship.. but I would say anything that deviates from the direct word of Jesus should be avoided at all cost. ANd I will call you out like a Spade if I see it happen.
I was recently fired as youth and teaching pastor for my belief that Hell is not eternal torment. I wrote a book about my beliefs and what the Scriptures actually teach on the subject. It's coming out soon, you can check out my blog to follow along. I'd love to get the message out to as many people as possible. The book is called "What the Hell" How Did We Get It So Wrong? whatthehellbook . com
When God calls a man to shepherd his people as a pastor, it is his duty to protect the sheep from wolves(i.e. those false teachers who distort the truth of Christ). So when John Piper gets angry about false teaching/emerging church, he is being more loving by exposing it and attacking it, than if he said nothing about it at all.
Gross. Reminds me of a quote by John Calvin: "...none are more liable to slanders and calumnies than godly teachers ... And this is the craftiness of Satan, to draw away the hearts of men from ministers, that instruction may gradually fall into contempt. Thus not only is wrong done to innocent persons, in having their reputation unjustly wounded, ...but as soon as any charge against ministers of the word has gone abroad, it is believed as fully as if they were already convicted."
here's an idea Piper: read Brain;s book for yourself instead of saying its bad. Legalsim doesn't win people to Christ my friend. and who are you to say he's not Christian? you C A N N O T!
John Piper is so entrenched in his Calvinism that he forgets how to be a Christian. Same thing can happen to Armenians. But he's just so far from the love of Jesus or at least it seems that way in this video. Its good to worry about people for sure, but he's boiling salvation down to an exact science and you can't do that. We don't have the knowledge or capacity for thought to be able to comprehend some of the things that John Piper says he knows. It makes God seem so small.
@marcohorowitz8 I do not like him as a preacher and I completely dislike what he says about certain people. I think it is going to far as to say that he should have died from prostate cancer.
Wait, his main argument that the emergent church is fading is that immorality is rampant? Newsflash dude... immorality is rampant everywhere. I attend Catholic Mass, but immorality is rampant there too. Corruption and sin infests all denominations. Both mainstream and this "emergent" Church have problems. :)
FADING OUT??? R U serious? How come everywhere I turn I learn of another church who has voted to accept & appoint gay leaders,,,hold joint worship services with Muslims, Jews, etc. I see just the opposite & think that this emergent church movement is going to lead to the One World Church! I would like to believe John Piper, but I just don't see it...seems he is totally outta touch with reality.
Most "black" churches are not emergent from what I can tell, but many of the "black" churches are more of the line of Pelagianism with a sprinkle of Calvinistic type doctrine. That's the only way I can describe the doctrinal teachings(not that any are bound by those labels though).
Interesting that this guy decides who gets called a Christian and who doesn't. GOD is Love. GOD is Truth. Let's not pretend there's a difference.
And I'm sure Mr. Piper could point out a bunch of sins in the lives of the leaders in the movement. I committed a grave sin yesterday, and I'll probably do it again soon. We're all sinners. But we are saved by grace! John Piper, there is now no condemnation for those who are in CHRIST JESUS!
Yes, indeed, farewell John Piper, you are beating a dead horse. The emergent church just ate you alive. All we hear is blah blah blah... real religiousness has always been a departure from orthodoxy. If you didnt have your doctrine and teaching shoved so far up your ass maybe you would see what it is all about.
@sugarandeis The Good News is that IF we repent (turn from our sin) and turn to Jesus who paid the price to cleanse us from sin, we will be reconciled to God the Father who can now teach us His ways through the Holy Spirit. How can there be repentance and true conversion if people arent aware of their sin and eternal destination without God, Jesus sacrifice makes no sense without that...
@sugarandeis How do you tell someone the Good News if they don't know the bad news. The bad news is we are seperated from God because of our sin and disobedience condemned to an eternity without Him in hell.
It's just a good thing we have people like John MacArthur and John Piper to keep us on track. They can tell us who is and who isn't a follower of Christ. Maybe we should worship them since they know everything.
I want to follow Jesus, not Piper or McLaren. Isn't the conversation about Christ and what he taught a part of the beautiful tradition of Christianity? Let us not inflate ourselves or anyone above Christ or each other. The conversation is what pushes us to grow, reconsider, and affirm. It should never end and God is big enough to guide our growth and conversation.
@lauraleighparker What's there to reconsider? The Truth is in God's Word so there's no need to consider another truth. And by 'conversation' do you mean fellowship with other believers and growing in the likeness of Christ or is that just a new trendy word for those who despise the word 'sermon' and other traditional church diction?
John Piper says about Brian McLaren: "... I´v not read his books but others did..." And the he condemns him and a whole movement (He realy dos not unterstand!). What a poor leader he must be to teach his "followers" to condemn others in this ways, and what kind of poor "followers" he must have, who trust a Guru, who does not know the topic from firsthand account...
I think Piper's point regarding the middle/upper class comment was simply that the emergent movement is far and away held by middle/upper class white young people. Not that they're the only demographic with problems. Piper is consistent in saying all people of all cultures of all times are sinners. However, I would agree that the emergent movement is appealling primarily to those who have not suffered injustice (mid/upp class white). You wont' find it in the 3rd world, either.
I am a little confuesed so please help me. I thought that if we go to scripture it says that all authority has been given to Jesus (Matt. 28:16-20). That which Jesus has asked his disciples to teach the people to obay (found within the great commission) is simply to love God and love others, the only doctrine i thought he taught. Jesus never said to teach others to obay doctrine. If anyone reads the Gospels and comes across Jesus teaching other Doctrine, please let me know. I want to learn. than
@cody8916 You need to learn what doctrine means. In the passage you cite is loaded with doctrine. Jesus commands us to go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (two essential doctrines right there; baptism and the Trinity) and teaching them to obey all that He has commanded. Doctrine simply means a body of teachings so everything that Jesus commands would be doctrine.
How is it that John Piper "rejects" the emergent church, yet supports and endorses Rick Warren who is a HUGE promoter of the emergent church and Brian McLaren? Quite the anomaly.
Even if the Emergent church faded within the next 10 years, it has already infiltrated many "solid, evangelical" church with their ideas, teachings, methods and practices. Again, God warned of this in His Word already (2 Peter 2). Always, always, always rest on the authoritative Word of God when responding to questions!!! Keep opinion out of it, at all cost.
I have to disagree on one strong point Piper makes in this Q&A. The Emergent church is not about to fade in 10 years & it definitely has not seen it's peak. They are popping up left and right in my city and surrounding towns. Not to mention, you gotta stick with Scripture. Always go to the authoritative Word. God said the chances of "churches" like the Emergent are more likely to continue into the last days (2 Tim. 4:3-5).
all sponsored preachers, and televised looneys like rick warren and rob bell all fit in the category of EMERGENT..they are to be avoided at all costs....anything that is to the detriment of our souls should be shunned with everything within us!
@matrxmax the term "EMERGENT" covers a very WIDE spectrum. I have heard Rick preach and he holds to Jesus and the Bible. He holds to the Bible and fundamental doctrine,but the methods he uses are different. check this out, i think he is in the Emergent evangelicals.
don't get stuck there. The greater issue to remain focused on is that fact that many are being deceived away from the Truth (2 Peter 2). Jesus is the only way and must remain the head of every local Christian church in order for them to please God. Plain and simple. The Holy Bible is clear on that - so don't get distracted by Piper's side statement
@gibberish47 Piper is talking about how "emergent church" people emphasize relationship and having good relationships. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but when you dismiss the Truth of Jesus, that this Person died for your sins, then it becomes problematic,
@gibberish47 That's true and theres ways to say you're going for sanctety of relationships that means you need to stay away from truths. And that in effect ruins relationships alltogether.
@gibberish47 You only heard what you wanted to hear. He said relationships have been elevated in priority over truth. That is why they are at odds. The only relationship of highest priority is to Christ (yes, truth) but He doesn't change. Relationships amongst men do change.
@mattandpatti222 - you're not serious, right? I can't definitely place the brand, but that is a sailboat. Like Nautica often has one too... It's clearly a logo, so I have to think you're being facetious or something.
From my perspective, all leadership in any institution has had issues with morality just as much as all leadership in any institution is made up of humans. I would also be curious towards other indications of its shortcomings as a movement beyond its 'moral failure'.
a few hundred years ago there were no born again,s , there was only catholics and the catholic bible was in Latin and 95% of everybody could not read anyway .. these are historical facts not faith or belief .. And in this catholic bible was put together by Catholic bishops and one megalomaniac emperor . fact .. and worst still ,,all the manuscripts ( copy,s of copy,s ,sitting in the Vatican) have not a few but hundreds of mistakes in them .. Its 2011 folks , goggle it :) fact!!!
@ezragriffiths You're right. Piper should have read the book before giving his opinion on the matter. I haven't read his book either, but I have heard Brian Mclean speak, and that was enough for me to see that Piper has a point here. This church does not stress the need to repent as we saw with John the Baptist & Jesus. No repentance prevents reconciliation between God and man. And if we aren't reconciled to Christ then we are still outside of His church & salvation(John 3:7-12).
So what you are suggesting is that relationships, I presume including, relationship with God, are secondary to doctrine and theology. Too bad. Give me Jesus, that is all I need. If his blood cannot cover my faulty theology, then your is in trouble too. In that, I see the emergent church bringing people to church so they can have that relationship with God that gives depth of meaning to what the theologize about God. Yes Give me Jesus, emergent, traditional, I do not care. Just give me Jesus.
OK. People. He was asked a question about the emerging church.
And he answered it.
He's not just talking to be talking. He giving his honest opinion.
There are truths in his words.
The emergent church is going away from Bible truth by a lot of the things they are "experimenting" in. I don't mind asking the hard questions about the Faith but I do mind answering them non-biblically. It's become so opinionated that it's almost all opinion and maybe a little truth sprinkled on top.
What does that even mean?! I kept replaying it to see if he really said "it wasn't just a phenomenon in the black community"
Because obviously if that was the case then it wouldn't be legitimate, but no, actually its part of the middle class, white community so its worth talking about
@mcconaughy26 I heard it too and wondered lol but i assumed that maybe he's speaking at a black church? i go to a 'korean' church because it's predominantly korean
@mcconaughy26 I think he is trying to say that the "emergent church" phenomena does not happen in the black community (understanding that it has its own ecclesiological development) and therefore it is not part of all the church as a revival should be. I don't think he is being racist but he is pointing out that the "emergent church" is not influencing all the different churches there are such as the church for the black community or the latino churches (I'm latino) or even in other places.
@mcconaughy26 I think he is trying to say that the "emergent church" phenomena does not happen in the black community (understanding that it has its own ecclesiological development) and therefore it is not part of all the church as a revival should be. I don't think he is being racist but he is pointing out that the "emergent church" is not influencing all the different churches there are such as the church for the black community or the latino churches (I'm latino) or even in other places.
lol, i like how he "makes fun" of the "relational focus" of the emerging church rofl. its so immature and stupid. Not to mention that the emerging church never made such a claim or even operates in such a way. This guy is such a dumbass.
I may not agree with his method, but what he's doing needs to be done. Jesus is the ONLY name under heaven by which man can be saved. Paul said that he wished he could have been cut off from Christ so that his brothers would be saved. We need a desperate heart for the lost, and when we give up the importance of the Gospel in order to build relationships, we are doing no one any good. Guys, Christ is the only means of peace with God, and we can't change it. We love our neighbors too much.
Rev. Piper you compromise your trustworthiness by speaking ill and in vague terms. And then you say that you know what's really going on. True or not, sounds like Gossip. As for individuals' sexual immorality destroying a theological bent, rendering it null and void?? I am sure you recognize that is by no means the death blow, not a silver bullet. Check out modern Evangelicalism (unless we alienate sinners caught more completely). We are identified with and by Christ sir. Not by our failures an
The emerging church is an umbrella term...come on...yes there is liberality amongst it, but you cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater...what about the missional churches which emphasize true theology?
JESUS COME AND TAKE US WITH YOU!!! John Piper, this message stands against the true evils of the emergent church, but have you fallen away so suddenly? I pray this man is a true believer, because I cannot bear the thought of him sending his congregation to the hands of the purpose driven apostate Rick Warren. May I be used for Christ, for He is my only life and besides Him I desire nothing.
@sugarandeis Cite your source, when did I say I preach hell? I SAID that as believers we KNOW a person's eternal destination without Christ (HELL), Therefore, we must preach Jesus Christ Crucified, ressurected, Ruler and King of all, and the only way to eternal life in Heaven. We must preach repentance of Sin and Faith in Jesus. Repentance (turning away from) of Sin is a Requirement to Walk with the Lord in this life and in eternity.
the comment "immorality is rampant". If immorality was the measure of a movement's longevity, there would be plenty of evangelical churches that would be gone, including 3 well-known Twin City churches off the top of my head. This answer sounds really Pharisaical &exactly the attitude I think the emerging movement is attempting to avoid.
@patriciacarrasco not necessarily, but they are closely related."Emergent" refers to a specific church movement, and "ecumenical" refers to a broader singular idea that seeks unity and cooperation in the church. Emergent groups are very commonly ecumenical. However, there can also be churches that are ecumenical, but not necessarily emergent. Bottom line, they are both very similar in that, they stray away from orthodoxy by favoring "unity" (even superficially) over doctrine.
I love John Piper, but I have to dissagree here. The emergent church is a concept that is still pretty new (only about 20 years) and so it will take time to develope. I can see alot of the problems Piper is talking about and I am not saying he is wrong, but we cannot write them off as heratics and false teachers. Many of them are amazing christians, but they see problems with the traditional church and wan't to fix it. We need to find a middleground, I suggest reading Deep Church by Jim Belcher.
I believe what's stronger than saying "Your Wrong" is saying "Your Loved." Lets not speak against people, but encourage people. We are called to love people to heaven, not condemn people to hell.
You can't love people into Heaven!!!. Jesus preached repentance and coming judgement, He loves people and that is why he preached that message and that is why we preach that message!! REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND BE BAPTIZED. BELIEVE !!! TURN TO JESUS, THE LION OF JUDAH IS COMING BACK SOON!!!!
@ShawnQuintero Different fish need different bait. it's all a matter of using the right bait but the hook is always the same. JESUS and Him crucified for OUR sins.. what I was meaning is that unless someone first understands that they are sinners the Love of GOd is of no effect. A person cannot understand God's Love and the Cross unless they know they don't deserve it. I sin against God even still but the ever present Love of Christ and His sacrifice for me brings me to my knees in repentance
@JCMySoulsBoast What if instead of telling them the solution, we first listened to their problems. Instead of sharing with them about how they Don't deserve love, we shared with them that they ARE loved. What if, instead of sharing with them how evil they are, we shared how great our God is? "Let it be on earth as it is in heaven." not "Let it be shouted about heaven on earth."
@ShawnQuintero When Peter preached the very first sermon, what did he preach? He told the Jews assembled together that the Christ whom they crucified Is the SOn of GOd and they must repent for their sins. In all of the new testament the "method" was preaching the Jesus Christ and the Cross and His ressurection....
@ShawnQuintero I shout because I have the Victory in Jesus and I have good news. whats wrong with preaching, john the baptist, JESUS, Peter, Paul, and all 12 apostles and others after them PREACHED BOLDLY! If it worked for them it will work for me :) Glory to GOd... Be Bold Brother...Jesus loves it!
@JCMySoulsBoast :) I'm very glad and humbled by your desire and pursuit for souls. And I gladly welcome you as my brother, in Christ. :) We shall meet in heaven. I didn't mean to make it seem like "preaching" and "Shouting" was wrong. It was simply set as an example of the different methods we choose to take.
People understand Love, whether they are made aware of the gospel or not. What if, instead of preaching the gospel, THAN sharing love, we shared love, than preached the gospel.
@ShawnQuintero i don't understand what you mean by "whether they are made aware of the Gospel or not"...the TRUE love of the LORD is His CROSS.....they must be made aware of the Gospel...that is the POWER of GOD and LOVE of Almighty God demonstrated.
@ShawnQuintero If your saying that you show love ( works) and then share Jesus the Cross and the resurrection, including why His sacrifice was necessary ( Our sin)...then I'm in total agreement. But you cannot show God's love apart from the message of Jesus and His Cross...
@ShawnQuintero One more thing sorry, um, hell is a very real place. lets say you run into an unbeliver and you "listen" to them, whatever that means, and then says something along the lines of "Jesus loves you, God loves you, we love you everything will be ok" that sounds nice right? well,sorry to break it to you but according to scripture that is a LIE or partial truth, everything is NOT OK. without Christ they are CONDEMNED to HELL, knowing that, you preach (proclaim, deliver) the Gospel.
distort no my friend that is what you and you wolf in sheeps clothing do Romans 1:18-32 pointing out false teaching and sin is not bigotry Bibical love is me telling you hey your boat has a leak in your going to sink your going down a road to hell bro if you are living a Homosexual lifestyle same I would say to man cheating on his wife you need to repent and come to the truth
I can see why the emergent church was formed as a reaction to "mega churches". To some some degree I would not be suprised that their exists church's that have overtime replaced Jesus' gospal with a political platform or capitalism. I do like the creative new "styles" of worship and musical "preferences" created by the emergent movement, but I agree with Piper in the fact that doctrine must remain at the top. Christians always have a hard time understanding that "cultures" change .
Isn't John Piper the pastor that died & went to heaven and came back to tell of it? "90 Minutes in Heaven" Or was that a different Piper? If I am wrong altogether, let me know, & forgive my ignorance.
This comment by Piper is so full of crap it's ridiculous. It would really be a good idea if he bothered to find out more about the subject before he pontificates. Piper is making a fool of himself.
My Catholic friends say that unity can only come when everyone unites around the Eucharist. Its like, you can believe whatever you want, just do the Catholic mass thingy. I don't think that is true; in fact, it strikes me as being superstitious to the point of paganism.
Communion is simply supposed to be done by believers in Christ when they gather together to remember our savior. It is incredibly important to me as a Christian, and I do it because Jesus said to do it. But it is nothing superstitious, simply a symbolic way to remember Jesus death and my resulting salvation because of it. It does not bring unity, but it is done when we are in unity.
The emergent church "die out" in the next 10 years, but that doesn't mean it's bad fruits will be entirely eliminated. I'm (27) and I'm amazed at the amount of my ex-seminary friends who subscribe to McClaren/Rob Bell as their primary source of doctrine and "ways to do church".
It may die out (like Piper stated), but it will be back in some form in the next 20-40 years when my generation leads American Christendom....
Anyway, may God bless McLaren. I agree with some of his points, but I disagree with him in many other points. I don't believe McLaren picture of Jesus should be elevated above Jesus. Jesus is above McLaren's theology. Jesus above creed!
Jesus quotes from the Word (Old Testament) as well many many times. Also, let's not forget how we discover who Jesus is. Practically, it's by reading His words and what is written about His life from the Bible, and then following it.
Personally, I see that in his previous books, but not in this recent one. Have you read his newest book, "a New Kind of ChristianITY? I don't think you have to question orthodoxy to be a more peaceful, non-violent, justice advocating Christ follower.
Scot McKnight, which Pipers alludes to and has written book published under the emergent village, even wrote a critique and questios McLaren's orthodoxy.
If you were to follow both John Piper and N.T. Wright. they have a lot more in common theologically than you think. The only difference I see is how they define as righteousness. Piper sees it as a moral standing that God places above. i.e. in Christ, God sees you as perfect. N.T. Wright sees it more as a badge of being in. I really think it's semantics and where they tend to emphasize..
Mclaren, Bell, Paggit are false teachers. "asking questions to stir up an age old conversation about how we follow jesus." Well, you're following wolves and these men are nothing but goat herders.
@landsdown44 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"
@Godsquad588 I suggest you use that text to see if your attitude is a refusal to participate in what the Holy Spirit is doing. Nothing McLaren has written has even a hint of heresy. Piper is just another modern day pharisee stumbling over what Jesus is doing.
@BrandonClapp74 McLaren follows Jesus as a disciple so clearly he's no heretic. I've heard him speak a number of times and read several of his books, never noticed a lie. So, either you have some inside knowledge of his lies or you are the one in trouble here. I'm guessing it's you who's in trouble.
@landsdown44 1. He believes there is no Hell Jesus teaches otherwise. Dude teaches another Gospel so Gal tells me he is acurrsed and those who follow him are likewise.
@BrandonClapp74 He also teaches that Jesus is not an atonement for sin you seem to either know nothing of what the man teaches or you are a heritic which one of is it?
@eagles5822 Preachers like Rob Bell are bringing into question fundamental doctrines like the virgin birth, hell, and whether or not homosexuality is a sin. They want to throw out the offensive things in the Bible to get more people to join their movement. Like Piper said, they want to build relationships, even at the expense of truth.
astherrien 2 weeks ago
what is the emerging church?
eagles5822 3 weeks ago
"Doctrines divide and relationships pull together". This is such a great way to sum up the whole movement. It's essentially the worship of man and the minimizing of God.
What happened to the words of john the baptist, "He must increase and I must decrease."?
l33tpwnzord 1 month ago
because he does, and if the emergent church is going to be the the gospel centered movement i feel like it could be, then it needs to affirm this. the full scope of god - his love, his judgement - needs to be affirmed and lived out authentically in mission.
my experience with the emergent church hasn't looked like universalism/cheap grace.
it's look like community over institution, the leading of the holy spirit over man-made tradition, and a focus on mission. no, piper, this is not going away.
missmachine7382 2 months ago
@missmachine7382 Agreed. The name "emerging church" may not be used in 10 years but the movement that is emerging within the church in America certainly will. Not all within this movement are unorthodox as Piper seems to indicate. Although Francis Chan may not fall under the "emerging church" category, his views are certainly challenging the status quo of "church in our country as we know it. Is he "unorthodox"? Check out the new book Steeple Envy from Vic Cuccia as well. steeple-envy.c om
RethinkPublishing 4 weeks ago
the traditional church model is not working - i'm not saying the church is called to be culturally relevant, but we are called to take the gospel into culture. i dare say the church has been "of the world, but not in the world" rather than the other way around. i'm not saying the emerging church has it all together - they don't, in the least, but they have a nugget of truth at their core. namely, that truth is only discovered through relationship. i'm not saying god doesn't have finalities(cont)
missmachine7382 2 months ago
why is it so often assumed that "orthodox" christianity and "emergent" christianity cannot be reconcilled? piper, like many others on this topic, is speaking in extremes, generalities, and false dichotomies. what the "emerging church" has going for them is the pushback against the structures of christendom, which are no longer working to save the lost. (con't)
missmachine7382 2 months ago
@missmachine7382 no longer working to save the lost? there is a strong influx of people coming into eastern orthodoxy, the pentecostal movement is the fasting growing movement in China.. I tell you whats failing to save the lost are churches who preach relativism, Christians that have this trademark mentality that stick a fish on their bumper but flip u off when cut off... the christian that has pro life on their shirt but does nothing to help the widow.. hypocrisy is what fails to win souls..
marmolejomarc 2 months ago
i hope john is not simply dismissing the questions that have arisen from the 'emergent's and that he is saying Balance is needed; much of what now is termed as 'emergent', has been in my spirit all along. i feel it is godly to wrestle with the norm; many aspects of 'orthodoxy' make no sense to me either; i question why i believe what i believe. 2 Peter 1:10 make your calling and election sure; this is all the emergent's want to do. Are there any 'reasonable' saint's with which to reason with?
KingdomUploader 2 months ago
Does he ever once open his bible? No. Does he quote any verses or go back to the bible in any way? No. He merely gives his opinion. Glad that Christ is who I look to and not John Piper.
armstrongjustin1 2 months ago
I'm part of the Emergent Church. God loves you, man.
OnDangerousGround8 2 months ago
I find it a little ridiculous that he has the nerve to judge another person's heart simply by the doctrine one believes. He's very sarcastic about people he's never met and a type of church he's never experienced. I can understand that he disagrees with these beliefs but I find no hint of God's love toward the people he describes. He tends to forget that God is bigger than what he thinks is wrong. I honestly think the kind of church he describes is more like the church of Paul's time.
martian4god 2 months ago
@martian4god We are called to point out in the body. plus there SHOULD be no difference in church back then and now. Same gospel. Same truth.
complicatedasnumbers 2 months ago
I find it tragically funny & ridiculously hypocritical when some Christians criticize the "Emergent Church". The irony is that the postmodernist view on "truth" is the only ALLY these "doctrinal" Christians have against rationality & science. Theological orthodoxy is a kind of solipsism & unorthodoxy seems 2 B more about political correctness. Neither has epistemological value & neither care about the truth anyways. It's called "faith" because it's not "knowledge".
cre599 2 months ago
@cre599 on what substance do you base your truth on and please dont tell me scripture because I can put 10 people to read the same scripture and come out with 50 different meanings.. instead of finding away that you like to worship God how about learning about God and finding out how he likes to be worshiped..
marmolejomarc 2 months ago
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cre599 2 months ago
I hope he is right... I hope this deception fades away as fast as it appeared. Unfortunatelly, I think it will come back dressed up as something else. And yes he's right, it's a sick deception and should be exposed as such.
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lightandbeautiful 3 months ago
Im more disturbed by all the comments here....John is upholding and defending the truths found in Gods Word but all the comments on here are aimed at John.... For those of you who make all these comments(out of ignorance)you need to realize that even Christ was rejected and talked about for defending and explaining the truth to the people of his time.... So are you mad at John or what the Word has to say....?
drayker99 3 months ago 12
Doctrine, beliefs and faith should be able to withstand questioning and thorough study. We need to seek truth instead of defending what we've been taught as truth.
whatthehellbook . com
whatthehellbook 4 months ago
March2010-it's bad. May2011-it's good. See John Piper interviews Rick Warren vids. Warren has kundalini yoga, contemplative prayer, chrislam etc but Piper doesn't rebuke him he embraces him. Emergence isn't dying it's assimilating others. Piper is infected with it. Now the Spririt speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. How long before Piper's people are going ommm ? Think Resist Repent!
mwilson70201 4 months ago
I'm a non-believer; religion is a complete waste of time. "Emerging church" is just another fad that religion tries to pretend it's still alive and "relevant".
NixonisLord 4 months ago
Unstable. If this clown is representative of a loving God(he isn't) then I'll just call myself a non-believer. Why are all these megachurch people so angry? They claim to have all the wisdom of the ages and yet they are utterly miserable. Amazing.
NYC2SFJoe 4 months ago
Well, if christians didn't treat people like second class citizens based on their marital or financial status they might stay longer and you wouldn't get all these different church movements.
mrchiefofsinners 4 months ago
After see and hearing much about John Piper, I have to say this. His faith is skubala. That's Greek for its a "pile of shit". Those are Paul's words, not mine.
The apostle Paul was one of the most religious people of his day. He upheld the traditions of his forefathers to the nth degree. He was a good man from a religious stand point, but a shitty man from a God stand point.
Why is it so many Christians have to attack each other? Won't the truth be known eventually if we let it speak?
sapnyosentry 5 months ago
The church of whatever floats your boat.
KnightOwl2006 5 months ago
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hunterdoesmagic 5 months ago
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Electfilmproductions 5 months ago
Piper dropping knowledge bombs as usual.
He makes great points about not worshiping "relationships" at the expense of God's revealed word
l33tpwnzord 5 months ago
This guy is full of hatred and snark. That says something.
billb380 5 months ago
@billb380
You see it as hatred and snark because your understanding is depraved.
l33tpwnzord 5 months ago
@billb380 u mad at god, bro?
l33tpwnzord 1 month ago
If you'd like to read some article on the Emergent Church and on Rob Bell and his book, Love Wins, visit: HELLS BELL DOT NET
PreachingJesus 5 months ago
this makes me want to vomit.
LIGHTRONIX 5 months ago
Wow. I am a Christian with no personal stake in the emergent church, but this just seems like an unseemly rant...
Hmm ad hominem attacks rather than logical arguments..."a fading reality", "it has seen its best days, its leadership is in shambles"... Geez, did Rob Bell attack his wife or something?
His mocking gestures and dismissive facial expressions are childish. He might have a legitimate opinion but I dunno why he's covering it in that nonsense. The comments on blacks just made me laugh.
acslater017 5 months ago
@acslater017
truth is often time difficult to bear. Bro. But we must embrace it.
dfpolitowski2 5 months ago
@dfpolitowski2 I'm sure Mr. Piper thinks he's defending the church against heresy, but I think it's completely unnecessary to wrap it in snideness, dismissiveness, etc. It makes me want to NOT listen to him.
There are enough problems in the world and we do not need more Christian infighting. John Piper should heed Scripture's warning to not slander, but be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger. He should try to understand or correct them with love, not just predict their demise.
acslater017 5 months ago
Everyone has their own opinions on worship.. but I would say anything that deviates from the direct word of Jesus should be avoided at all cost. ANd I will call you out like a Spade if I see it happen.
eljono1 5 months ago
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alyssafaithbaer 5 months ago
Get this guy a straight jacket.
Madstmichael77 5 months ago
When God calls a man to shepherd his people as a pastor, it is his duty to protect the sheep from wolves(i.e. those false teachers who distort the truth of Christ). So when John Piper gets angry about false teaching/emerging church, he is being more loving by exposing it and attacking it, than if he said nothing about it at all.
doulostheou777 5 months ago 27
Gross. Reminds me of a quote by John Calvin: "...none are more liable to slanders and calumnies than godly teachers ... And this is the craftiness of Satan, to draw away the hearts of men from ministers, that instruction may gradually fall into contempt. Thus not only is wrong done to innocent persons, in having their reputation unjustly wounded, ...but as soon as any charge against ministers of the word has gone abroad, it is believed as fully as if they were already convicted."
zscerrato 6 months ago
here's an idea Piper: read Brain;s book for yourself instead of saying its bad. Legalsim doesn't win people to Christ my friend. and who are you to say he's not Christian? you C A N N O T!
Fireproofretz 6 months ago
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ClassicallyEducated 6 months ago
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@Fireproofretz I believe Christ said you tell a tree by it's fruit.
ClassicallyEducated 6 months ago
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Fireproofretz 6 months ago
John Piper is so entrenched in his Calvinism that he forgets how to be a Christian. Same thing can happen to Armenians. But he's just so far from the love of Jesus or at least it seems that way in this video. Its good to worry about people for sure, but he's boiling salvation down to an exact science and you can't do that. We don't have the knowledge or capacity for thought to be able to comprehend some of the things that John Piper says he knows. It makes God seem so small.
tbw980371 6 months ago
@tbw980371 Amen
JamSpring 5 months ago
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Farewell John Piper. YOU SUCK!
eyemabeliever 6 months ago
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What a shame he survived prostate cancer! should have died!
marcohorowitz8 7 months ago
@marcohorowitz8
c'mon man have a bit of class.....
zoltron30 6 months ago
@marcohorowitz8 I do not like him as a preacher and I completely dislike what he says about certain people. I think it is going to far as to say that he should have died from prostate cancer.
tbw980371 6 months ago
Wait, his main argument that the emergent church is fading is that immorality is rampant? Newsflash dude... immorality is rampant everywhere. I attend Catholic Mass, but immorality is rampant there too. Corruption and sin infests all denominations. Both mainstream and this "emergent" Church have problems. :)
fergusonat 7 months ago
FADING OUT??? R U serious? How come everywhere I turn I learn of another church who has voted to accept & appoint gay leaders,,,hold joint worship services with Muslims, Jews, etc. I see just the opposite & think that this emergent church movement is going to lead to the One World Church! I would like to believe John Piper, but I just don't see it...seems he is totally outta touch with reality.
Discerningthetruth 7 months ago
lol............This guy is creepy....I think Jesus would agree.
jasonfinnern 7 months ago
@qtrjunky I would say John Piper would agree with you.
TheEtzfactor 7 months ago
Lol @John Piper's closing comments about it, "This is a white middle class, etc." haha, The doc is FUNNY. Completely agree with his view btw.
Dtrumpet50 7 months ago
jp!
ekkIesia386 7 months ago
I think Piper's was a very poor and superficial definition of the whole emerging/emergent movement.
boolifcooncoon 7 months ago
Most "black" churches are not emergent from what I can tell, but many of the "black" churches are more of the line of Pelagianism with a sprinkle of Calvinistic type doctrine. That's the only way I can describe the doctrinal teachings(not that any are bound by those labels though).
Creationcreed 7 months ago
You KNOW he's talking to black people, the way they're audibly agreeing with him, i love how we express ourselves
RexLawson4eva 7 months ago
Interesting that this guy decides who gets called a Christian and who doesn't. GOD is Love. GOD is Truth. Let's not pretend there's a difference.
And I'm sure Mr. Piper could point out a bunch of sins in the lives of the leaders in the movement. I committed a grave sin yesterday, and I'll probably do it again soon. We're all sinners. But we are saved by grace! John Piper, there is now no condemnation for those who are in CHRIST JESUS!
bobsquat 7 months ago
Yes, indeed, farewell John Piper, you are beating a dead horse. The emergent church just ate you alive. All we hear is blah blah blah... real religiousness has always been a departure from orthodoxy. If you didnt have your doctrine and teaching shoved so far up your ass maybe you would see what it is all about.
MMurray08 7 months ago
@sugarandeis The Good News is that IF we repent (turn from our sin) and turn to Jesus who paid the price to cleanse us from sin, we will be reconciled to God the Father who can now teach us His ways through the Holy Spirit. How can there be repentance and true conversion if people arent aware of their sin and eternal destination without God, Jesus sacrifice makes no sense without that...
JCMySoulsBoast 8 months ago
@sugarandeis How do you tell someone the Good News if they don't know the bad news. The bad news is we are seperated from God because of our sin and disobedience condemned to an eternity without Him in hell.
JCMySoulsBoast 8 months ago
Catholics worship the Pope. Protestants worship the Bible. Why else do they capitalize Scripture?
dliberty1988 8 months ago
It's just a good thing we have people like John MacArthur and John Piper to keep us on track. They can tell us who is and who isn't a follower of Christ. Maybe we should worship them since they know everything.
dliberty1988 8 months ago
Doctrine does divide. That's why everyone has a doctrinal statement.
dliberty1988 8 months ago
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Jesus said he came to divide
jncarlos007 8 months ago
I want to follow Jesus, not Piper or McLaren. Isn't the conversation about Christ and what he taught a part of the beautiful tradition of Christianity? Let us not inflate ourselves or anyone above Christ or each other. The conversation is what pushes us to grow, reconsider, and affirm. It should never end and God is big enough to guide our growth and conversation.
lauraleighparker 8 months ago
@lauraleighparker What's there to reconsider? The Truth is in God's Word so there's no need to consider another truth. And by 'conversation' do you mean fellowship with other believers and growing in the likeness of Christ or is that just a new trendy word for those who despise the word 'sermon' and other traditional church diction?
TheEtzfactor 7 months ago
Farewell John Piper.
mtbugaj 8 months ago
Why don't you at least read the books you are calling heresy before labeling them?
madwonderland 8 months ago
This Brian Mclaren dude is lost...pray for him and the thousands that follow this kind of thinking.
104overnout 8 months ago
John Piper says about Brian McLaren: "... I´v not read his books but others did..." And the he condemns him and a whole movement (He realy dos not unterstand!). What a poor leader he must be to teach his "followers" to condemn others in this ways, and what kind of poor "followers" he must have, who trust a Guru, who does not know the topic from firsthand account...
yaasch 8 months ago
I think Piper's point regarding the middle/upper class comment was simply that the emergent movement is far and away held by middle/upper class white young people. Not that they're the only demographic with problems. Piper is consistent in saying all people of all cultures of all times are sinners. However, I would agree that the emergent movement is appealling primarily to those who have not suffered injustice (mid/upp class white). You wont' find it in the 3rd world, either.
greenspey 8 months ago
Did he seriously just tell a room full of black people not to worry, because it's the middle-class/upper-middle-class that has the problem?
sswave4dave 8 months ago
Mr Piper, are you a post modern Pharisee?
atlantaautoglass 8 months ago
I am a little confuesed so please help me. I thought that if we go to scripture it says that all authority has been given to Jesus (Matt. 28:16-20). That which Jesus has asked his disciples to teach the people to obay (found within the great commission) is simply to love God and love others, the only doctrine i thought he taught. Jesus never said to teach others to obay doctrine. If anyone reads the Gospels and comes across Jesus teaching other Doctrine, please let me know. I want to learn. than
cody8916 8 months ago
@cody8916 You need to learn what doctrine means. In the passage you cite is loaded with doctrine. Jesus commands us to go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (two essential doctrines right there; baptism and the Trinity) and teaching them to obey all that He has commanded. Doctrine simply means a body of teachings so everything that Jesus commands would be doctrine.
MackLeeGreen 8 months ago
How is it that John Piper "rejects" the emergent church, yet supports and endorses Rick Warren who is a HUGE promoter of the emergent church and Brian McLaren? Quite the anomaly.
PeteZuhutt 9 months ago
Even if the Emergent church faded within the next 10 years, it has already infiltrated many "solid, evangelical" church with their ideas, teachings, methods and practices. Again, God warned of this in His Word already (2 Peter 2). Always, always, always rest on the authoritative Word of God when responding to questions!!! Keep opinion out of it, at all cost.
obg7 9 months ago
I have to disagree on one strong point Piper makes in this Q&A. The Emergent church is not about to fade in 10 years & it definitely has not seen it's peak. They are popping up left and right in my city and surrounding towns. Not to mention, you gotta stick with Scripture. Always go to the authoritative Word. God said the chances of "churches" like the Emergent are more likely to continue into the last days (2 Tim. 4:3-5).
obg7 9 months ago
all sponsored preachers, and televised looneys like rick warren and rob bell all fit in the category of EMERGENT..they are to be avoided at all costs....anything that is to the detriment of our souls should be shunned with everything within us!
wonnthree 9 months ago
@wonnthree - don't just avoid them. Warn others about them and warn them with the truth of God's Word!!
obg7 9 months ago
Was that gossip?
pauljamesallen 9 months ago
Would Rick Warren be considered emergent?
matrxmax 9 months ago
@matrxmax the term "EMERGENT" covers a very WIDE spectrum. I have heard Rick preach and he holds to Jesus and the Bible. He holds to the Bible and fundamental doctrine,but the methods he uses are different. check this out, i think he is in the Emergent evangelicals.
watch?v=58fgkfS6E-0&feature=related
homestar4ever 9 months ago
Why are truth and relationships at odds? Last time I checked, Truth was a Person long before it was propositional.
gibberish47 9 months ago 8
don't get stuck there. The greater issue to remain focused on is that fact that many are being deceived away from the Truth (2 Peter 2). Jesus is the only way and must remain the head of every local Christian church in order for them to please God. Plain and simple. The Holy Bible is clear on that - so don't get distracted by Piper's side statement
obg7 9 months ago
@gibberish47 that's John Piper's point.
moonjp 7 months ago
@gibberish47 Piper is talking about how "emergent church" people emphasize relationship and having good relationships. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but when you dismiss the Truth of Jesus, that this Person died for your sins, then it becomes problematic,
nadabaul 5 months ago
@gibberish47 That's true and theres ways to say you're going for sanctety of relationships that means you need to stay away from truths. And that in effect ruins relationships alltogether.
desasterz 5 months ago
@gibberish47 You only heard what you wanted to hear. He said relationships have been elevated in priority over truth. That is why they are at odds. The only relationship of highest priority is to Christ (yes, truth) but He doesn't change. Relationships amongst men do change.
tikkaman100 4 months ago
Preach it!
ma101661 9 months ago
Piper is a fundamentalistic fool.
blannphinella 9 months ago
@blannphinella Anh he also has a Freemason triangle on his shirt?
mattandpatti222 9 months ago
@mattandpatti222 - you're not serious, right? I can't definitely place the brand, but that is a sailboat. Like Nautica often has one too... It's clearly a logo, so I have to think you're being facetious or something.
cedevitt 9 months ago
From my perspective, all leadership in any institution has had issues with morality just as much as all leadership in any institution is made up of humans. I would also be curious towards other indications of its shortcomings as a movement beyond its 'moral failure'.
TheCrescentStudios 10 months ago
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EYEMHEMPSTER 10 months ago
Moral failure? This is by no means only a stronghold in the "emergent church". This is a problem for Christians as a whole (even Calvanist).
"...I have not read..." this seems to be the main phrase I hear from critics of the movement. Truth is a person.
ezragriffiths 10 months ago
@ezragriffiths You're right. Piper should have read the book before giving his opinion on the matter. I haven't read his book either, but I have heard Brian Mclean speak, and that was enough for me to see that Piper has a point here. This church does not stress the need to repent as we saw with John the Baptist & Jesus. No repentance prevents reconciliation between God and man. And if we aren't reconciled to Christ then we are still outside of His church & salvation(John 3:7-12).
brianfeaster1 10 months ago
So what you are suggesting is that relationships, I presume including, relationship with God, are secondary to doctrine and theology. Too bad. Give me Jesus, that is all I need. If his blood cannot cover my faulty theology, then your is in trouble too. In that, I see the emergent church bringing people to church so they can have that relationship with God that gives depth of meaning to what the theologize about God. Yes Give me Jesus, emergent, traditional, I do not care. Just give me Jesus.
LeHauteGryphon 10 months ago
emerging church a fading reality? I have not been following it closely given that it is heresy.
they are a burbling irrelevance. in the words of the rock song THEY GOT NOTHING I WANT THEY GOT NOTHING I NEED
Bu now some are saying that it is Fading? I HOPE SO!!!!!
Strefanasha 10 months ago
Go Piper!!
YETI42clarkrocks 10 months ago
OK. People. He was asked a question about the emerging church.
And he answered it.
He's not just talking to be talking. He giving his honest opinion.
There are truths in his words.
The emergent church is going away from Bible truth by a lot of the things they are "experimenting" in. I don't mind asking the hard questions about the Faith but I do mind answering them non-biblically. It's become so opinionated that it's almost all opinion and maybe a little truth sprinkled on top.
YamiKazeSora 10 months ago
Did anyone else hear what he said @2:55 ??
What does that even mean?! I kept replaying it to see if he really said "it wasn't just a phenomenon in the black community"
Because obviously if that was the case then it wouldn't be legitimate, but no, actually its part of the middle class, white community so its worth talking about
mcconaughy26 10 months ago
@mcconaughy26 I heard it too and wondered lol but i assumed that maybe he's speaking at a black church? i go to a 'korean' church because it's predominantly korean
dahlia01397 10 months ago
@mcconaughy26 I think he is trying to say that the "emergent church" phenomena does not happen in the black community (understanding that it has its own ecclesiological development) and therefore it is not part of all the church as a revival should be. I don't think he is being racist but he is pointing out that the "emergent church" is not influencing all the different churches there are such as the church for the black community or the latino churches (I'm latino) or even in other places.
juanja005 10 months ago
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@mcconaughy26 I think he is trying to say that the "emergent church" phenomena does not happen in the black community (understanding that it has its own ecclesiological development) and therefore it is not part of all the church as a revival should be. I don't think he is being racist but he is pointing out that the "emergent church" is not influencing all the different churches there are such as the church for the black community or the latino churches (I'm latino) or even in other places.
juanja005 10 months ago
lol, i like how he "makes fun" of the "relational focus" of the emerging church rofl. its so immature and stupid. Not to mention that the emerging church never made such a claim or even operates in such a way. This guy is such a dumbass.
mrdanface 10 months ago
@mrdanface this comment is not the way to get people to take your opinion seriously.
J2DAQWST 10 months ago
I may not agree with his method, but what he's doing needs to be done. Jesus is the ONLY name under heaven by which man can be saved. Paul said that he wished he could have been cut off from Christ so that his brothers would be saved. We need a desperate heart for the lost, and when we give up the importance of the Gospel in order to build relationships, we are doing no one any good. Guys, Christ is the only means of peace with God, and we can't change it. We love our neighbors too much.
iwannagrowup 10 months ago
Rev. Piper you compromise your trustworthiness by speaking ill and in vague terms. And then you say that you know what's really going on. True or not, sounds like Gossip. As for individuals' sexual immorality destroying a theological bent, rendering it null and void?? I am sure you recognize that is by no means the death blow, not a silver bullet. Check out modern Evangelicalism (unless we alienate sinners caught more completely). We are identified with and by Christ sir. Not by our failures an
tshue1 10 months ago
The emerging church is an umbrella term...come on...yes there is liberality amongst it, but you cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater...what about the missional churches which emphasize true theology?
xProdigalx 10 months ago
JESUS COME AND TAKE US WITH YOU!!! John Piper, this message stands against the true evils of the emergent church, but have you fallen away so suddenly? I pray this man is a true believer, because I cannot bear the thought of him sending his congregation to the hands of the purpose driven apostate Rick Warren. May I be used for Christ, for He is my only life and besides Him I desire nothing.
JayElleist 11 months ago
@sugarandeis Cite your source, when did I say I preach hell? I SAID that as believers we KNOW a person's eternal destination without Christ (HELL), Therefore, we must preach Jesus Christ Crucified, ressurected, Ruler and King of all, and the only way to eternal life in Heaven. We must preach repentance of Sin and Faith in Jesus. Repentance (turning away from) of Sin is a Requirement to Walk with the Lord in this life and in eternity.
JCMySoulsBoast 11 months ago
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JCMySoulsBoast 11 months ago
the comment "immorality is rampant". If immorality was the measure of a movement's longevity, there would be plenty of evangelical churches that would be gone, including 3 well-known Twin City churches off the top of my head. This answer sounds really Pharisaical &exactly the attitude I think the emerging movement is attempting to avoid.
rwsynth 11 months ago
is "energent" the same thing as "ecumenical"?
patriciacarrasco 11 months ago
@patriciacarrasco not necessarily, but they are closely related."Emergent" refers to a specific church movement, and "ecumenical" refers to a broader singular idea that seeks unity and cooperation in the church. Emergent groups are very commonly ecumenical. However, there can also be churches that are ecumenical, but not necessarily emergent. Bottom line, they are both very similar in that, they stray away from orthodoxy by favoring "unity" (even superficially) over doctrine.
stevestutz 11 months ago
I love John Piper, but I have to dissagree here. The emergent church is a concept that is still pretty new (only about 20 years) and so it will take time to develope. I can see alot of the problems Piper is talking about and I am not saying he is wrong, but we cannot write them off as heratics and false teachers. Many of them are amazing christians, but they see problems with the traditional church and wan't to fix it. We need to find a middleground, I suggest reading Deep Church by Jim Belcher.
someUtubeguy 1 year ago
um, yeah. Check out SGMSurvivors. Can you answer those questions?
FortheLuIz 1 year ago
I believe what's stronger than saying "Your Wrong" is saying "Your Loved." Lets not speak against people, but encourage people. We are called to love people to heaven, not condemn people to hell.
ShawnQuintero 1 year ago
@ShawnQuintero "When he [the Holy Spirit] is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment."
John 15:26
You can't love people into Heaven!!!. Jesus preached repentance and coming judgement, He loves people and that is why he preached that message and that is why we preach that message!! REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND BE BAPTIZED. BELIEVE !!! TURN TO JESUS, THE LION OF JUDAH IS COMING BACK SOON!!!!
JCMySoulsBoast 1 year ago
@JCMySoulsBoast
It's really a matter of method and not message. We choose to love. You choose to shout. We choose to listen. You choose to "Preach."
Whether someone becomes a New Believer with your method or ours, does it really matter?
ShawnQuintero 1 year ago
@ShawnQuintero Different fish need different bait. it's all a matter of using the right bait but the hook is always the same. JESUS and Him crucified for OUR sins.. what I was meaning is that unless someone first understands that they are sinners the Love of GOd is of no effect. A person cannot understand God's Love and the Cross unless they know they don't deserve it. I sin against God even still but the ever present Love of Christ and His sacrifice for me brings me to my knees in repentance
JCMySoulsBoast 1 year ago
@JCMySoulsBoast What if instead of telling them the solution, we first listened to their problems. Instead of sharing with them about how they Don't deserve love, we shared with them that they ARE loved. What if, instead of sharing with them how evil they are, we shared how great our God is? "Let it be on earth as it is in heaven." not "Let it be shouted about heaven on earth."
Much Love! :)
ShawnQuintero 1 year ago
@ShawnQuintero The "problem" is always the same with everyone. The problem is SIN
JCMySoulsBoast 1 year ago
@ShawnQuintero When Peter preached the very first sermon, what did he preach? He told the Jews assembled together that the Christ whom they crucified Is the SOn of GOd and they must repent for their sins. In all of the new testament the "method" was preaching the Jesus Christ and the Cross and His ressurection....
JCMySoulsBoast 1 year ago
@ShawnQuintero I shout because I have the Victory in Jesus and I have good news. whats wrong with preaching, john the baptist, JESUS, Peter, Paul, and all 12 apostles and others after them PREACHED BOLDLY! If it worked for them it will work for me :) Glory to GOd... Be Bold Brother...Jesus loves it!
JCMySoulsBoast 1 year ago
@JCMySoulsBoast :) I'm very glad and humbled by your desire and pursuit for souls. And I gladly welcome you as my brother, in Christ. :) We shall meet in heaven. I didn't mean to make it seem like "preaching" and "Shouting" was wrong. It was simply set as an example of the different methods we choose to take.
People understand Love, whether they are made aware of the gospel or not. What if, instead of preaching the gospel, THAN sharing love, we shared love, than preached the gospel.
ShawnQuintero 1 year ago
@ShawnQuintero i don't understand what you mean by "whether they are made aware of the Gospel or not"...the TRUE love of the LORD is His CROSS.....they must be made aware of the Gospel...that is the POWER of GOD and LOVE of Almighty God demonstrated.
JCMySoulsBoast 1 year ago
@ShawnQuintero If your saying that you show love ( works) and then share Jesus the Cross and the resurrection, including why His sacrifice was necessary ( Our sin)...then I'm in total agreement. But you cannot show God's love apart from the message of Jesus and His Cross...
JCMySoulsBoast 1 year ago
@ShawnQuintero One more thing sorry, um, hell is a very real place. lets say you run into an unbeliver and you "listen" to them, whatever that means, and then says something along the lines of "Jesus loves you, God loves you, we love you everything will be ok" that sounds nice right? well,sorry to break it to you but according to scripture that is a LIE or partial truth, everything is NOT OK. without Christ they are CONDEMNED to HELL, knowing that, you preach (proclaim, deliver) the Gospel.
JCMySoulsBoast 1 year ago
distort no my friend that is what you and you wolf in sheeps clothing do Romans 1:18-32 pointing out false teaching and sin is not bigotry Bibical love is me telling you hey your boat has a leak in your going to sink your going down a road to hell bro if you are living a Homosexual lifestyle same I would say to man cheating on his wife you need to repent and come to the truth
BrandonClapp74 1 year ago
I can see why the emergent church was formed as a reaction to "mega churches". To some some degree I would not be suprised that their exists church's that have overtime replaced Jesus' gospal with a political platform or capitalism. I do like the creative new "styles" of worship and musical "preferences" created by the emergent movement, but I agree with Piper in the fact that doctrine must remain at the top. Christians always have a hard time understanding that "cultures" change .
3carz 1 year ago
Isn't John Piper the pastor that died & went to heaven and came back to tell of it? "90 Minutes in Heaven" Or was that a different Piper? If I am wrong altogether, let me know, & forgive my ignorance.
BarJabba 1 year ago
@BarJabba It was a different Piper. His name is Don Piper. Common mistake.
JoelMorris11 1 year ago
@BarJabba that was a differnt Piper
BrandonClapp74 1 year ago
I chose to live for Jesus Christ, not man made religion.
cradlethehorizon 1 year ago
This comment by Piper is so full of crap it's ridiculous. It would really be a good idea if he bothered to find out more about the subject before he pontificates. Piper is making a fool of himself.
landsdown44 1 year ago
IF you really believed that hell was real then you would be out preaching 24/7 with no sleep !!!
if you really look at every sinner as someone who is headed to hell then you would have an adrenaline rush to find out the quickest way to save them
the only problem is NO christian truly believes in hell because they life testifies that they don't
do you look and speak to unsaved people like this?
you soon force your self to forget that I said this
Dwrancho144 1 year ago
@Dwrancho144 He is a calvinist. Learn your stuff.
redreece96 1 year ago
As North American Chairman of the World Council of Cults, I strongly disapprove of this message.
KublahKraus 1 year ago
My Catholic friends say that unity can only come when everyone unites around the Eucharist. Its like, you can believe whatever you want, just do the Catholic mass thingy. I don't think that is true; in fact, it strikes me as being superstitious to the point of paganism.
TheCannonofMohammed 1 year ago
@TheCannonofMohammed
Communion is simply supposed to be done by believers in Christ when they gather together to remember our savior. It is incredibly important to me as a Christian, and I do it because Jesus said to do it. But it is nothing superstitious, simply a symbolic way to remember Jesus death and my resulting salvation because of it. It does not bring unity, but it is done when we are in unity.
phi223 1 year ago
You Da man Pipe Bomb!
Insaneplanetman 1 year ago
Well said..
cesmoot1957 1 year ago
Everyone he says is so true!
UnrealHelix 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The emergent church "die out" in the next 10 years, but that doesn't mean it's bad fruits will be entirely eliminated. I'm (27) and I'm amazed at the amount of my ex-seminary friends who subscribe to McClaren/Rob Bell as their primary source of doctrine and "ways to do church".
It may die out (like Piper stated), but it will be back in some form in the next 20-40 years when my generation leads American Christendom....
Madison4Christ 1 year ago
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Madison4Christ 1 year ago
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Madison4Christ 1 year ago
Wow! Clear, cogent, right on point. John Piper says what we knew in way fewer words than anyone else.
hamptonkr 1 year ago
FINALLY, someone who tells the TRUTH about this stuff.
marlessangela 1 year ago
What is this clip excerpted from? A larger recording of Q&A?
juniorsenior981 1 year ago
amen!
npotts89 1 year ago 5
i just watched some doug pagitt and tony jones videos, and I had to watch this to get the taste of crap out of my mouth.
cats9900 1 year ago 2
Anyway, may God bless McLaren. I agree with some of his points, but I disagree with him in many other points. I don't believe McLaren picture of Jesus should be elevated above Jesus. Jesus is above McLaren's theology. Jesus above creed!
moonjp 1 year ago
Jesus quotes from the Word (Old Testament) as well many many times. Also, let's not forget how we discover who Jesus is. Practically, it's by reading His words and what is written about His life from the Bible, and then following it.
moonjp 1 year ago
Brian McLaren's book is EXCELLENT EXCELLENT. You say going away from Bible. How about away from the words on the page and towards the life of Jesus?
canyonwlkr 1 year ago
Personally, I see that in his previous books, but not in this recent one. Have you read his newest book, "a New Kind of ChristianITY? I don't think you have to question orthodoxy to be a more peaceful, non-violent, justice advocating Christ follower.
Scot McKnight, which Pipers alludes to and has written book published under the emergent village, even wrote a critique and questios McLaren's orthodoxy.
moonjp 1 year ago
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moonjp 1 year ago
If you were to follow both John Piper and N.T. Wright. they have a lot more in common theologically than you think. The only difference I see is how they define as righteousness. Piper sees it as a moral standing that God places above. i.e. in Christ, God sees you as perfect. N.T. Wright sees it more as a badge of being in. I really think it's semantics and where they tend to emphasize..
moonjp 1 year ago
Mclaren, Bell, Paggit are false teachers. "asking questions to stir up an age old conversation about how we follow jesus." Well, you're following wolves and these men are nothing but goat herders.
Godsquad588 1 year ago 22
@Godsquad588 that God for people like McLaren and Bell who are bringing the true message of Jesus back into the light where it belongs.
landsdown44 1 year ago
@landsdown44 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"
2 Timothy 4:2-4
Godsquad588 1 year ago
@Godsquad588 I suggest you use that text to see if your attitude is a refusal to participate in what the Holy Spirit is doing. Nothing McLaren has written has even a hint of heresy. Piper is just another modern day pharisee stumbling over what Jesus is doing.
landsdown44 1 year ago
@landsdown44 McLaren is a heritic and liar so your advice to follow the Holy Spirit makes me doubt that you even know what that means
BrandonClapp74 1 year ago
@BrandonClapp74 McLaren follows Jesus as a disciple so clearly he's no heretic. I've heard him speak a number of times and read several of his books, never noticed a lie. So, either you have some inside knowledge of his lies or you are the one in trouble here. I'm guessing it's you who's in trouble.
landsdown44 1 year ago
@landsdown44 1. He believes there is no Hell Jesus teaches otherwise. Dude teaches another Gospel so Gal tells me he is acurrsed and those who follow him are likewise.
BrandonClapp74 1 year ago
@BrandonClapp74 He also teaches that Jesus is not an atonement for sin you seem to either know nothing of what the man teaches or you are a heritic which one of is it?
BrandonClapp74 1 year ago