Gene Robinson Invocation at the Obama Inauguration (As Cut by HBO)

[zachpsick]

Well, if we dont agree the bible is authoritative, then it wouldnt do much good to say this... but I believe that the bible IS Gods word, and it calls homosexuality sin. So, yes, He told me. And I agree that God doesnt hate the sinner. But until we accept Christ, sin is IN us, so we are condemned already.

But like I said, if we dont agree on the whether or not the bible is the word of God, then you definitely wont agree with my reasoning.

[wanealy]

Have no fear. Have you ever wondered why Jesus Himself never wrote down his Thoughts? It is because He knew that God's Ultimate Word: Love, could not be uttered and explained fully in human language. Therefore he left it to his imperfect disciples. When you are filled with the spirit, you do not need to worry about Right or Wrong. You only worry abotu whether you Love enough. To demonstrate. I am willing to go to Hell for any of my brothers and sisters. That is the True Spirit. Peace.

[wanealy]

Best Prayer at the inauguration. This is truly the Spirit Speaking. Peace.

[staceyk65]

spirit maybe but which one?The Holy Spirit refers to God as God or Father not the god of understanding

[wanealy]

My Dear sister, the True Heart of God is Wider than you could ever imagine. We Imagine God/Spirit from a too-anthropomorphic vision of vindication and Hell, while God's Heart is Pure Understanding and Love. Of Course, I do not presume to Speak for God's Heart, but I would bet my soul on the fact that He/She Loves everyone just as they are. It is when we are narrow, and judgmental, that we stray from Love. When we stray from Love, we stray from God. Just my 2 cents. Peace.

[staceyk65]

That I do most certainly agree with. God is Love. There is no hate in Him towards us as humans becaused we have been redeemed by the Cross. However, I also believe even though God loves us He despises our behavior. It actually hurts Him to think what He created in His image could turn out so messed up.

[wanealy]

God does not despise our behavior. He/She sees our behavior in His Greater Context which is more than human minds can bear or Understand. He impels us to Love and Be Inclusive, after that, Trust. Peace.

Believe me, I respect your theological perspective, I just happen to disagree with it.  however, we are both Speck speculating on the Cosmos. Peace.

[zachpsick]

yeah, God is a smiley face drawn on a heart floating around in the clouds blessing people. Yay!

Well, actually, God has crushed entire cities, killing men, women, and children because of their widespread sin. God HATES sin. And we are ALL sinners. We are all going to lay on our deathbed someday. Some will have trusted in Christ as savior, been filled with his spirit, and lived a life worthy of the calling they have received, and others will be condemned to hell for eternity.

[wanealy]

Actually, Men have done this in the Name of God, not God Himself. The Bible is holy, but only because it is a recording of good men's best Strivings to Understand the Heart of God, not because it is a Literal dictation. The Violence in the Bible does not represent God's Heart, but the imperfect (necessarily human) actions of His/Her aspirations.

God hates sin, NOT the Sinner, How do you know homosexuality is a Sin? Did God Himself reveal it to You, or do you follow men's fears? Peace

[zachpsick]

where do you get your philosophy from? I mean, you seem to speak authoritatively, like you know the true nature of God... but i have no idea where you could have gotten that from. Like, did you make it up yourself? Or from a book? And how do you know stacy and I are wrong? like, what do you base that on?

[phtographerdave]

What a beautiful prayer. It is both humble and courageous, hopeful and somber. I'm glad I heard it... so very glad

[sloopy312]

What a horrible prayer: How dare ask God to bless all people, that he ask all fathers to love all their children, that he ask all nations to get along, and that he asked God to bless those people who don't confine God to judeo-christianity only God. We Christians are the only good peoples on planet Earth deserving of God's blessings.

I know what I say is true as I have been told that it would have been better if I let suicidal gay youth die rather than contaminate society. One kid was only 12.

[kbell623]

thank you for posting this!! i was sad to see it cut from the HBO coverage. it's so beautiful to see such a strong and loving, openly gay man be asked to participate in such a historical event. this goes to show that obama truly is welcoming real and long overdue changes for the better.

[HotlantaBoricua]

Jesus Christ said love one another...hello! The Bible says Judge ye not for thy shall be judge! You fundamentalist always practice selective reading. But thats okay...one day we all will be judged! So leave it up to God! We must respect others and we do not have to agree! Plain and simple, so get your head out of your but!

[nickwheeler69]

Leave it up to god is a bit of a cop out don't you think?

I would think that judgement would be based, as rev. MLK said, on the content of ones character.

[nhgranite1]

Gene Robison is to holy marriage what Tim Leary was to logical medical thought using a perverted process to access the dark side of the human soul while advertising "angels of light."

[Shubael1809]

we're not talking about "holy" marriage. We're talking about CIVIL marriage.

Learn the difference you ignoramus.

[nhgranite1]

as performed by Gene Robinson? Then why does he wear the collar? There's only one type sanctified. The rest is dialectical crap created by a whiney minority and where politicians sell their influence and votes to the win elections.

[Shubael1809]

Many churches sanctify gay marriage ... I was simply stating civil marriages are out of the jurisdiction of religionists.

I know several same sex couples who've been married in the church.

It's just the exclusionist who appear to think religion dictates that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

That thinking is not based in Scripture .. it's based in fear.

[zachpsick]

actually its based in scripture.

[Shubael1809]

what's "based in scripture"?

[zachpsick]

that marriage is between a man and a woman. it is clearly stated in scripture. its not "based in fear"

[Shubael1809]

"that marriage is between a man and a woman. it is clearly stated in scripture. its not "based in fear"

Though you're statement is false .. and you appear to be making this stuff up as you go along to fit your bias .. what does "based in fear" have to do with same sex marriage?

My marriage is based in mutual love and trust.

[Shubael1809]

"that marriage is between a man and a woman"

No it doesn't. And in that time wives were purchased as were slaves. I think, my bigoted friend, you'd better realize that the world has evolved for the better since the times in which those things were written. You, again, choose selectively your references and you never give real quotes from your handbook (bible).

[coconnel51]

Which one type? The Catholic type? I hope so. That's the only type of Christian union I was raised to believe is sanctified. Hopefully you aren't part of one of those newbie minority denominations that has tainted that just because they didn't agree with strict doctrine.

[GanEdenAustralia]

Great, so now we have a SODOMITE praying for the President! THIS IS A BLASPHEMOUS DISGRACE TO THE GOD WHO HATES SODOMY!!

[Shubael1809]

Hates Sodomy?

Jesus lined up his 12 disciples and bum-fucked them nightly.

[staceyk65]

I'll pray for ur soul.

[Shubael1809]

I'll pray for you hole.

[zachpsick]

you certainly are trashy. its just filthy talk. I hope you arent like that in real life. it is sad. i mean, who talks to a lady like that?

[lawrencetuck]

If god has authority over his homosexuality, he also has authority over the vows he took in marriage.

[Shubael1809]

god doesn't have authority over anything

[lawrencetuck]

change change change change change... gosh my one year old neice can say more words than that. and more profoundly too

[lawrencetuck]

"bless us with discomfort at the easy simplistic answers we prefer to hear from our politicians instead of the truth about ourselves and our world which we need to hear..."

Probably not the best thing to pray considering the fact that Obama is a complete one trick slogan pony... "change". In response to any question all you hear is blah blah blah change blah blah blah

[youdantube13]

This video needs to be preserved in all of our computers to remind us of Obama's first half-kept promise to Gays and Lesbians.

We need to watch this man that we elected more closely than the Republicans he already might be cowering to.

[Capasin]

Love thy neighbor. Judge not. Is the message really that complicated?

[islandboy0000]

No shortage of ridiculous comments from overzealous nuts. Next time you guys claim there's only so-called one true (Christian) God, ask Him to step down here on Earth and prove it right before EVERYONE. As in NOW. Not 2,000+ years ago.

I'm not religious, but kudos to Robinson for delivering a very inclusive prayer--a prayer which embraces as many forms of religions/beliefs/spiritualiti­es that is REPRESENTATIVE of every American, of every human, not just of one self-absorbed mega church.

[zachpsick]

We dont have to ask Him, island boy, He's coming.

He's not a baby in the manger anymore, He's not a broken man on the cross. He didnt stay in the grave, and He's not staying in heaven forever.

People get ready, Jesus is coming

[islandboy0000]

Correction, bud. Jesus already came. I met him last Thanksgiving party, although, there were two of them. One immigrated from Mexico and the other from South America. Jesus from Mexico loves to drink beer and play in the pool. Fun guy he was. :D

[staceyk65]

To those who replied to my previous comments, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but in these last days I'm not taking any chances.

[realkid17]

Yeah if you say so.

[NFE1]

Fairly political in tone and somewhat shallow, but at least towards the end, he did try to pray for our President, finally.

[sofifox]

And God help this father who left his wife and children for another lover

[RogerJ14]

That is not true. He and his wife decided amicably to separate before he even met his partner. He is still close to his former wife and daughter who accept and love him and his partner.

[Dahak753]

so i guess he should forgive people like you for making him hide his true preference for decades till he couldnt take it anymore i guess?

I wouldnt.

[lawrencetuck]

If God made him gay as most of the liberal christians would have us believe. God also sanctioned marriage, not divorce. If Gene Robinson wants to claim Gods authority over his homo sexuality, he needs to grow up, become a mature christian and man and stay with his wife. IT's called living with the consequences of your actions. Instead of running away like a Coward. Welcome to the modern world, one where technology, ethics and science are used to run away from all responsibility and maturity

[coconnel51]

...and the Bible is used to run away from tolerance, compassion, understanding and Love.

[lawrencetuck]

cocnnell - Only two of the words in your list there actually are described as virtues in the bible. Compassion and Love, of course they are right up there with Justice, Holiness, Prudence, Self Control (that's a good one), honesty, etc...

Understanding and tolerance (in the liberal sense of the word) are not true virtues but destroy true society

[Shubael1809]

I refuse to be tolerated.

One "tolerates" a badly behaved child.

I tolerate most Christians.

[Dahak753]

agreed. *thumbs all the way up*

we tolerate the hate (though they do it with what they call "love in their hearts" and smiles on their faces and bibles waving) from self-proclaimed (though in many ways, unspoken) "superior" christian idiots.

there are otherwise good people who call themselves christians that know the difference.. not many.

respect is what we ask for and deserve.

to christians: stop trying to change us. this is the "land of the free", not the "land of the christians"

[ShubaeI1809]

I am straight now. I was wrong to be gay.

[GwynnShadow]

Thank you so much for posting this!!

[Razrangel]

Thank you for posting this. Love and Justice for all is the only truly righteous way.

[tobinatorstark]

Gene Robinson is truly a sick Fuck

[staceyk65]

How much are we as Christians supposed to accept from the world around us.? We have an invoction that totally ignores God as the one true God from a Bishop who has no business behind a pulpit considering his lifestye is an ABOMNATION in the eyes of the Lord. Not that our Lord does not love him, for God is love, but sin is sin. I pary for our country. The things that need to be changed can only come from God's intervention in our lives. Jesus said I AM the WAY. The only WAY.

[coconnel51]

And how much misinterpretation of the Bible and spreading of hate and bigotry in the name of God should we tolerant Christians stand for? How much longer should we sit idly by while our religion is being hijacked by literalists and extremists who can't explain the teachings of Paul or the words in Leviticus on a social, political and historical level? For how much longer are we to sit by while those who take scripture at face value use it to harm their fellow human beings?

[HotlantaBoricua]

I totally Agree!

[zachpsick]

Wait, you dont take the word of God at face value? What do you do? Twist it, turn it, and shape it to your own understanding? Your understanding is more reliable than what is written? Are you really that arrogant?

[mordredt02]

"We have an invoction that totally ignores God as the one true God from a Bishop who has no business behind a pulpit considering his lifestye is an ABOMNATION in the eyes of the Lord."

YOU had Rick Warren, who thinks we're pedophiles. Shut up.

[Dahak753]

have you ever read the bible? what you call an abomination is also accompanied by other things in leviticus such as

-eating shellfish is an abomination.

-straight people having sex when the woman is on her period is an abomination.

-children that curse their parents is also an abomination... and punishable by death.

etc etc etc...so if youre all for opressing gays (with love and a smile no less) you need to start killing your kids when they cuss you too..its the word of god afterall. ;-)

[staceyk65]

First off, my children have enough respect for me that neither one of my boys would curse me. As far as the rest of it goes most of what the human race does is displeasing to God but He isn't surprised by it. That's why Jesus had to die. I'm just saying that people involved in a sinful lifestyle whether it be homosexuality, adultry, drugs, alochol, ect. shouldn't be in such public positions where there personal choices can influence those who dont' know any better.

[progressiveguy2007]

Yes, Stacey, Jesus is real, and one day you will have to stand before Him and answer for spreading hatred in His name. Fortunately for you, He is far more merciful and loving than you are.

[zachpsick]

Hatred? Where do you see stacy spreading hatred? it looks to me like she is calling sin sin. If you call yourself a Christian, progressive guy, YOU are the one who will be answering for why you supported something God hates. God hates sin. He isn't the smiley face drawn on a heart floating around in the clouds blessing people that you lib christians like to picture Him as. Read the bible. Those who dont repent are doomed. And you are helping them on their way to damnation.

[GanEdenAustralia]

Amen

[coconnel51]

When she misinterprets / picks and chooses from Leviticus in an effort to degrade her fellow human beings.

You clearly do not understand what you have read.

Faith. Hope. Love. The greatest of these - is love. Why so many choose to allow faith to trump love - especially when it is in direct opposition to the teachings of the Bible, baffles me.

Truth is debatable - tolerance, divine. Your words of intolerance are hateful.

[zachpsick]

God repeatedly condemns homosexuality in the bible, not just in Leviticus, which I am sure you know. And you consider it loving to allow someone to continue in damnable sin? They are going to burn in hell for eternity because you want to be considered "tolerant."

Perhaps instead of pointing the finger at everyone and calling them hateful you should study the bible you seem to think you know. Perhaps the most loving word you can say to someone is "repent."

[coconnel51]

You assume I haven't studied the Bible because I don't agree with you? That's to be expected.

It's clear you take a literalist's reading of the Bible, which is unfortunate.

As I asked Stacey - please tell me your understanding of Paul's motivations for penning Romans - please. If you can convince me you contextually understand the text, perhaps I will entertain your one-dimensional interpretation of his writings - until then...

Tolerance will do just fine.

[staceyk65]

I am curious are you studying in a secular school or a Spirit filled school?

[coconnel51]

Both. Context. Dig it.

[Shubael1809]

"I am curious are you studying in a secular school or a Spirit filled school? "

You sound entirely brainwashed.

[zachpsick]

No I assume you havent studied it because you seem to think the only place God condemns homosexuality is in Leviticus. And you seem to know a fact or two that you use to make yourself look intelligent. Yes, I take a literalistic view. What view do you take? Abstract? You know thats ridiculous, right? and damnable? We dont get to pick and choose what we believe. We dont get to twist scripture to fit whatever we are comfortable with, or our political agendas. See above for an answer to romans

[coconnel51]

Actually - I never said Leviticus was the only place. Goodness - you're not even accurately reading my posts and you expect me to buy into your reading of scripture.

Since you take a literalist's view - the next time your sister, mother, girlfriend has her "time," please make sure she takes herself out of social circles for 7 days and when she returns, has either 2 pigeons or turtles for a priest to sacrifice at the altar. Only that will rid her of the abomination that is menstruation.

[Shubael1809]

"Goodness - you're not even accurately reading my posts and you expect me to buy into your reading of scripture. "

Like all hatemongers they cherry pick from it coconnel.

[Shubael1809]

"No I assume you havent studied it because you seem to think the only place God condemns homosexuality is in Leviticus."

God condemns eating shellfish in Leviticus. Does that stop you from eating it?

God also condones slavery easily 30 times in the bible. If you're going to use that thing to hate don't cherry pick to suit yourself zachy.

[zachpsick]

Well, I dont base my life off of old testament, which was my point. The new testament condemns homosexuality plenty enough for me to believe it is sin.

And please tell me where the bible condones slavery. I know that is something people throw out there to discredit christians, but it is wholey baseless.

And by the way... you have watched 11,000+ videos on youtube? Seriously friend... get a life.

[wanealy]

Paul actually counsels a slave to go back to his Master. I don't say this to condemn Paul, but only to Illustrate how historical circumstances shape the inspiration of the Disciple. You must let go of your idea that you possess the Whole Truth. We are all sinners. I fully admit that I only understand the Will of God from my historically hemmed in perspective. i don't dare believe that I understand God's Eternal Word Fully. However He has left us with One easy to follow dictate: Love.

[zachpsick]

If you were to find any writings from the same period there would be talk about slavery. The fact that the bible speaks of slavery doesnt mean it condones slavery, it is simply acknowledging the fact that it exists. And the point of saying slaves must "submit" to their masters is to show that anyone can trust God. Romans 13:1-2 is a great example. God is in control, we dont have to make things right ourselves. And I make absolutely no claim to having Whole Truth. But I do believe the bible does.

[zachpsick]

And I am not sure how you can claim that the bible doesnt without claiming that you have Absolute Truth yourself. In order for you to know that the bible isnt Absolute Truth, you would have to know everything. Open minded people are rarely open minded enough to acknowledge that people think they know the Truth, may in fact actually know the truth.

[wanealy]

If you are still thinking in terms of Either/Or, you are trapped by Fear. The Spirit impels us to Love, even when we do not completely understand.. Consult you Heart. If it is fearful, I beg you to rest; if it is troubled, I beg you to open yourself to the Ultimate Wound, which is Life, Which is Love, Which is God's word still speaking to us. Peace, friend.

[zachpsick]

I am not sure why people assumes that someone who disagrees with them, or thinks there is a difference between right and wrong, is compelled by fear.

I assure you that my full confidence is in the Lord. I worry about or "fear" very little. I trust God.

[wanealy]

I'm glad you do. Many good men and women have disagreed in the past. Heaven still holds. God's Word still stands. Peace, brother.

[wanealy]

I agree completely with you on the interpretation of slavery in the Bible, but as Christians, we cannot exempt ourselves from how these words have been used in our Nation to justify slavery. That is historical fact, as much as it pains me to acknowledge.

I would quibble with you about the whole "God is in control" part. While I agree that He is, God acts through our very lowly selves, because He loves creation so much. This places a burden on us to be co-Creators with Him. Peace,

[zachpsick]

The fact that people used the words of the bible to justify their own wickedness doesn't mean anything about me or the bible. It speaks only to the wickedness of man.

And again, if you dont believe the bible, then of course you dont believe God is in control. But if He isn't, then slaves had nothing to hope for.

I love God's sovereignty. It assures me that no matter how much I fail and mess up, He will be there. He will cause all things to work together for the good of those who love Him.

[wanealy]

I agree with you about the man using the bible to justify himself in his wickedness. You are wise to notice this. I would encourage you to think: when you say: "The Bible." do you understand that you are talking about the accumulated history and wisdom of men dispersed in many books and written by many authors? God's Spirit impelled the writing, but God's Word (which I bow Before) is beyond the human words. I would encourage you to study Bible and Church history as guideposts. Peace,.

[zachpsick]

I dont believe scripture is simply impelled by God. The bible says all scripture is "God breathed." If you believe the bible is authoritative and inerrant, as I do, than scripture itself is enough to affirm its own truthfulness. It was not written by random authors. The Holy Spirit was guiding every stroke of the pen.

I have, in fact, studied some church and bible history. And while there are things I dont completely understand, shadows of doubts dont make me doubt the validity of the bible.

[wanealy]

Right, and I'm glad you have, but I would beg you not to confuse the Inspiration of individual Prophets with the Word of God which cannot be put to Writing, for it is Life Itself. it is the very thing that impels you to write to me tonight. It is beyond all of us, and we must submit to its call with discernment and Love. God is not a writ, but an Action: that Action is Sacrificial Love: personal and Universal. Peace, brother.

[zachpsick]

I am not sure exactly what you are asking. Its kind of a broad question. And I also dont know what liberal theologians you have been taught by... but... Romans was written in A.D. 57 to a church that was doing well in Rome (as opposed to say, the corinthians) mostly as a full expression of apostolic theology. The first 11 chapters are theology, the last 5 are application. Feel free to ask more clarifying questions if you wish. I AM curious as to what you think it was written for...

[coconnel51]

Paul's motivation... that's what I am asking. Why did Paul write Romans? Simple question. Who was his target audience? What did he hope to achieve?

To answer your question - I don't think Paul was condemning the loving relationships between members of the same sex. And neither do many Christians who understand the writings in relation to the society in which they were written.

[zachpsick]

His target audience was...THE CHURCH IN ROME, whom he had never met. His purpose was to establish a theological treatise. It was more general, as opposed to the other epistles, which all arose from a specific occasion. He DID want to let the Romans know he would be coming to see them. But mostly it was written to lay a theological foundation. Good enough? or did you want to add something in frustration to try to make it look like Im not answering your question?

[zachpsick]

It seems to me like you had no purpose in having me tell you that. You just thought you could stump someone. Because the purpose and history really have nothing to do with any point you may be trying to make. And i wish i could post the whole scripture so people could see. Romans 1:24-29. Google it if you dont have a bible.

You really are a twisted individual if you dont see that as condemning. "God gave them up to sinful desires" God abandoned them to their sin. Does that sound good to you?

[coconnel51]

Easy. I'm simply not waiting by a computer to respond to you. There is life outside of YouTube debates.

And - I dont need Google. I have a Bible... and supplemental reading at that (since I'm a contextual consumer of information). But, thank you for again assuming something entirely off the mark.

You answered my question perfectly the Church in ROME not a universal church or one that was even intended during Jesus own time.

[zachpsick]

okay, and dont google it. but tell me how that is NOT condemning.

I would seriously get some new supplemental reading material. Yours is leading you astray. i would recommend John Macarthur. Its a little more biblical. It might not fit to your political ideologies, but at least you wont be condemned to hell for believing it

[Shubael1809]

The political ideology is key.

We're talking about (in the larger picture) the rights of same sex couples to marry. Yours (nor anyone else's faith) has any business intruding into this secular area.

[Shubael1809]

"and please tell me where the bible condones slavery"

READ!

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)"

Enough? There are plenty more.

[coconnel51]

I am not condemned to hell - as men have led you to believe. I've embraced the true message of loving my neighbor as myself.

[zachpsick]

as for there being life outside of youtube debates... THAT is relative. I am a full-time student who works full time as well. If a debate goes on long enough I consider it a social activity and stay home friday or saturday to study :)

[Shubael1809]

That's fascinating zach... but you refuse to address my quotes about the bible condoning slavery?

Is "denial" TRULY more than a river in Egypt?

[coconnel51]

What is interesting about Paul is how often he veers from Jesus original message of love.

Jesus life, parables and teachings focus on inclusion. Paul focuses on distinguishing a minority group ideologically from their counterparts.

[zachpsick]

What do you do with the Jesus of Matt 25 that divides all people into sheep and goats (believers and non-believers) and send the goats away to eternal punishment? Or His parable at the end of Matt 24 where he says when he come back he will cut his disobedient servants into pieces and put them with the hypocrites where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth? What about the Jesus of revelation that is coming back to judge the world?

[zachpsick]

Where is the god of inclusion there? And waht about the God who destroys entire cities because of wickedness? Its the same God coco, and he sure doesnt seem like a God of tolerance and inclusion to me. And what is the danger in taking God's word seriously? I think I would rather err on the side of trusting God before I would want to trust man and his wisdom. You have your liberal scholars with their new interpretations of everything. THAT is dangerous.Not taking the word as it stands.

[Shubael1809]

"THAT is dangerous.Not taking the word as it stands.

In Leviticus God says eating shellfish (or fish without scales) is an abomination. Do you eat it? Please read more thoroughly. If you're going to remain true to form you must follow ALL "the word" .. "AS IT STANDS".

NO EXCEPTIONS!

I think perspective is needed here... you cherry pick based on your own personal bias.

[Shubael1809]

"and please tell me where the bible condones slavery.." "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

[zachpsick]

The fact that the bible acknowledges slavery exists does not mean it condones it. Any writing you find from that day will talk about slavery as common place. God didnt speak to us to say "End abortion," or "End slavery" or "End racism." Instead there is a greater message. LOVE, as my friend coco repeatedly points out. No matter where you find yourself in life, slave, free, Jew, Greek-wherever, LOVE.

[zachpsick]

The bible tells me to submit to my authority. I personally believe that President Obama is...not godly, lets say. For example, he will repeal the law that bans federal money for abortion... a terribly wicked act, I think. But the bible says I must submit to him. It doesnt mean that what he is doing is right, it means regardless of what others are doing, I must follow the example of Christ and submit.

[Shubael1809]

"The fact that the bible acknowledges slavery exists does not mean it condones it"

Interesting how interpretive you become around slavery.. yet intransigent about homosexuality.

Reason?

Hetero men's masculinity is threatened by things they perceive (repeat PERCEIVE) as feminine. It was certainly the rule of the day then... and is to a lesser degree today. You'll note the major block of nay-sayers to same sex marriage are hetero males.

[Shubael1809]

"No matter where you find yourself in life, slave, free, Jew, Greek-wherever, LOVE. "

Ah good. Finally we're on the same page. I love my gay male husband.

Love it is.

[coconnel51]

"I think I would rather err on the side of trusting God before I would want to trust man and his wisdom."

But, what you know of the Bible is because of the word of man. By taking the Bible literally - you are indeed trusting the word of man. Your faith may compel you to believe that word is divinely inspired, but when so many contradictions, political agendas and mistaken translations are peppered throughout the text - are you not forced to look deeper into what you feel is absolute?

[coconnel51]

Faith and its kindred prophecies that compel man to seek what they feel is "truth," these will pass away. Knowledge - what you think you KNOW or hope to be true - these too will pass

Of these three - faith, hope, love... love is the greatest.

I choose to err on the side of love.

[zachpsick]

I agree completely about taking things in context. Um... Did I already ask you to tell me about a couple of the contradictions? I think I did. I would love you to point them out to me. Also, please tell me how homosexuality today is any different than homosexuality 2000 years ago. why is it any less sinful?

By the way, I consider you my friend.

[Shubael1809]

" please tell me how homosexuality today is any different than homosexuality 2000 years ago. why is it any less sinful?"

using YOUR handbook:

Slavery was condoned in the Bible - I assume you don't condone it today. Eating shellfish was considered an abomination in the O.T. - I assume you now see that as poppycock. Homosexuals have existed from time immemorial. In order to survive their masculinity intact hetero men had to dictate Lev. thusly. It just doesn't stand the test of time.

[Shubael1809]

"you certainly are trashy. its just filthy talk. I hope you arent like that in real life. it is sad. i mean, who talks to a lady like that? "

You're impossibly shackled to the past. That's no lady it's a pig...

And to have to read such tripe from you who rolls around like a moron with some poor woman's dog on a pier or boardwalk? Well you have your nerve.

I think you have that religious gene that precludes broadness of perspective. To ME that's real "filth". Now shut up cunt breath.

[zachpsick]

COME ON! THAT VIDEO IS FUNNY! Or it would be if you didnt hate me :(

But I want you to know... God loves you. Im not saying that to spite you or anything, I mean it. And you can come to Him. I didnt clean my life up before I came to Him, I came to Him and he cleaned my life up. And I have experienced His great love, love I had never known before. And you can too.

[Shubael1809]

To hate you I'd need to be invested in you. I'm not. It's just your rhetoric is so counter-human growth and understanding Zach. You don't need to tell me "God loves [me]" for me to know it.

One (believe it or not) can have a "clean life" with or without what I call the myopathy of Christianity.

I do know the love of God. I simply experience it differently than you.

[Shubael1809]

NOW READ AND LEARN!

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) "

[coconnel51]

Paul sought to organize a community based on rules that were necessary at THAT time and in context to the world in which they lived.

So you have the rules of God versus the rules of an institution. If, according to Jesus love and inclusion are the greatest lessons (Matthew 22:36-40) anything that comes in opposition to that message even from Paul, should be taken as secondary.

[Shubael1809]

"So you have the rules of God versus the rules of an institution. If, according to Jesus love and inclusion are the greatest lessons (Matthew 22:36-40) anything that comes in opposition to that message even from Paul, should be taken as secondary."

From a Christian standpoint this is KEY. Well stated.

[coconnel51]

To ignore that there are contradictions in the Bible is dangerous for someone who claims to understand it. To side with a message other than Jesus when faced with those contradictions is even more dangerous when you take it upon yourself to interpret faith universally.

[zachpsick]

where are there contradictions in the bible? perhaps you could enlighten all of the biblical scholars of the past 2000 years?

[coconnel51]

Well, for starters - the basic question as to whether or not the laws of the Old Testament are still binding. From Malachi 4:4 (Remember the law of Moses) conflicting with 2 Corinthians 3:14 that "defines" Christianity as a new vision, there are inconsistencies. What is left is for MEN to interpret what original meaning is.

[coconnel51]

2000 years of scholarship means 2000 years of thesis and theory - no matter what faith compels you to believe. My problem with a literal translation of the Bible is that semantics is never considered. You have a text that is thousands of years old and has been translated into many language and you're telling me you, without a shadow of a doubt, can confirm what the original intent was after a face-value reading?

[coconnel51]

Goodness, you can't even translate a poem from English to Spanish in the era it was written - author still alive - and get a consistent answer regarding meaning. Words simply don't exist in one language that do in another. You don't even have one consistent version of a Christian Bible today yet you claim an error-proof reading of a universal truth prescribed by it?

Semantics. Evolution of language. many words don't meant today what they meant then. Period. Abomination, for one.

[Shubael1809]

Welcome indeed to our little group coconne51! You add tremendous perspective.

[wanealy]

Agreed coconnel. The Spirit moves, and always in Troubled, Uncertain Waters. God's Heart is All Inclusive. For that I am Sure. Peace.

[zachpsick]

I think i figured out where you get this stuff... Affirmations? "Im good enough, smart enough, and gall darnit, people like me!" Right? Im pretty sure some of that is word for word from that book!

[wanealy]

Believe me brother, it isn't about simplistic affirmations. I have suffered much loss in my life and tasted much bitterness, but I praise the God of All who Transforms the Human Cross into a divine Ladder. I am a humble Devotee of the Book of Job: God reveals Himself in the Quiet corners full of Suffering,. I wish Peace and Love to you.

[coconnel51]

How can you be sure your reading of the Bible is accurate?

Please respond by telling me Paul's political motivations for penning Romans.

Then, spend some time reading 1 Corinthians.

Since you pick and choose what to believe - perhaps you can choose a more righteous path than hate.

You're simply on the wrong side of history... and morality.

[staceyk65]

I'm not saying that I hate thisperson. I am simply saying I don't want his type of bleesing over our country that's all, over me and my chidren. In all the names of God that I have found the god of understanding is not one of them. Thou Shalt have NO other gods before me. That's good enough for me.

[coconnel51]

The God YOU understand. Precisely. This isn't an issue of idolatry - it's an issue of misinterpretation. Ever entertain the idea that your interpretation is off the mark? Do you actually study the Bible or just listen to what others tell you it means? I'm earnestly curious.

[staceyk65]

I study, listen and learn. I consider all sources, what is written, but mostl how the Holy Spirit brings things across to me.

I trust Him more than any thing else in my life.

[coconnel51]

You consider all sources - except gay bishops, and I'm assuming anyone else who expresses opinions that differ from your own.

Which means - "all sources," is a stretch.

[cittiavaticano]

I respect Bishop Robinson a great deal..he is a Bishop, the G-D he was praying to was Jesus Christ...he didn't need to say it, his collar and position spoke to which G-D he belives in, and the G-D he was asking blessings from

[staceyk65]

Rember Sodm and Gomorah? There is only one God, who is the Messiah, and is the the only way that this country will be turned around. Jesus said I am the WAY!!!!!

[coconnel51]

If you think Sodom and Gomorah is about loving relationships between members of the same sex, you don't understand the Bible as much as you would like to think you do.

[billjckln]

Please smack what ever preacher fed you this unscriptural lie! To answer your question, yes I do remember Sodom and Gomorrah. And not one scripture ever equated with homosexuality. RELIGION DID!!!!! IT CHANGED THE ACTUAL GREEK IN JUDE TO SUIT IT'S AGENDA. AND IT SUCKED IN GOONS LIKE YOU INTO BELIEVING THE S & G LIE IN THE NAME OF GOD.

[billjckln]

that post was for staceyk65

[zachpsick]

you realize that you are completely wrong, right? I dont know where you read that. Did Dan Brown write a new novel? Where ever you got that, though, you might not want to get your "facts" from there anymore. It makes you look foolish

[coconnel51]

No - bad jokes make you look foolish. Is it easier to believe that anyone who interprets the Bible differently than you must be a Dan Brown lemming? Does that ridiculous and inaccurate marginalization provide you comfort in your position?

I guess it's hard to feel correct if you first have to acknowledge your counterargument could have some kind of understanding that is not based in fiction. It certainly is easier to defend a superficial reading of the text that way.

[billjckln]

Actually, everything I wrote is true. It is you who is wrong. Scripture and History itself would outhandily dispute you. Granted I was a bit rude with the name calling, which I apoloize for, put my point as expressed is every bit of true.

[billjckln]

the word "put" should be the word "but"

[HotlantaBoricua]

To those who are narrow minded and only wanted to hear a total Christian prayer... yes Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior;however, Being a true Christian is Aknowledging people and Respecting those of other faiths! Everybody has the right to believe what they want and it is not up to us to judge or shove our faith down there throats. In the end it is God thats going to do the judging not us!

[zachpsick]

show me a place in the bible where it says anything about acknowledging and respecting other religions. that is nonsense. you made that up to make yourself feel better.

[lechevaliervert7]

no where in the bible does it say to respect other religions. that's one reason why the bible is bullshit (as is the koran) and we should disregard them. and any other proponents of religion.

[zachpsick]

Your logic is faulty and baseless. It doesnt make sense

[HotlantaBoricua]

No it does not say it in the Bible, it was my opinion, just like you have yours.

[zachpsick]

Yeah, but as Christians we shouldnt base everything off of our opinion. Our thinking should be transformed by His word. And His word condemns repeatedly the worship of false gods. I live amongst people of all faiths. I have friends who believe in different gods or no god at all. But they know how I feel and what I believe. I believe they are wrong and if they dont change their beliefs they will spend eternity in hell. And I tell them, in love, as often as I can.

[HotlantaBoricua]

I do not have to make myself feel better, because, i have accepted Christ as my Lord and savior and my relationship with Christ is only between Him and I and not you! I did not agree on the way He prayed but I do believe that we all have to respects others faiths just like Christianity needs to be respected.

[Shubael1809]

oh shut the fuck up with the "I have accepted the Lord as my own personal Saviour" shit.

It's really getting old and it's self-delusional.

[coconnel51]

Oh, yeah - there is no place in the Bible where tolerance and acceptance of your fellow human beings is expressed - ever. Instead - one-dimensional interpretations of ancient text that lack context or any other sign of critical inquiry are valued, eh?

Zachpsick is full of prophecy and knowledge, it seems. Wait... prophecies cease... and knowledge passes away. Hmm.

I'm glad I'm sticking with love. It's apparently the greatest of the three.

[zachpsick]

Um... wait. Does reading the Bible make me look like a prophet? Perhaps to you. But to Christians it is just a part of life. You seem to have chosen to take up my challenge, so I put it to you. You seem to think the bible is all about tolerance and acceptance. Okay. PLEASE give me a scripture I can look up that tells Christians to accept and tolerate the worship of other Gods. PLEASE. I would LOVE to be accepting and tolerant of them. Just ONE verse that says to accept other religions. ONE.

[staceyk65]

True God is the final judge but how many souls are you willing to let go to hell because you didn't want to shove the Gospel down the throats of those who don't believe.

You don't have to shove but you are required to Spread the Word to all the ends of the earth

[HotlantaBoricua]

Well, in my opinion he could should have ended it with the trinity or in Jesus Christ name. However, I do understand He wanted to include and respect everyones faith. This is a nation established by God;however, we are a free nation and thank God we can respect others of there own faith!

[brooklyn3178]

Thank you so much for posting this.

[cagona2008]

Just a question. Which god did he prayed for anyway? He did reminded whoever he was praying for that there are other gods...

[drumbunny]

A true invocation of inclusion. Very nice.

[GS4theReal]

First of all, there is only one true God. I didn't appreciate the hecklers and in this guy's prayer, he didn't end it in Jesus' name. Jesus Christ came to earth to die for our sins. Don't believe me? Accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour and see for yourself. Just try and see how He will change your life for the better. Don't deny, just try and please see for yourself. God Bless.

[benjamincostello]

We should have heard this today instead.

[Shubael1809]

... a preposterous last-ditch attempt at reconciliation by Obama to balance out "Pastor" Rick Warren's invitation to the invocation.

This is a preposterous attempt (and feeble) by the incoming administration to quiet those in the gay community who stood by him and supported him during the campaign.

Shame on you Barack Obama.

[zachpsick]

I agree. Pres Obama led all of his supporters around like little sheep. Little ignorant sheep. It was sad to watch it happening and not be able to break them from their fantasy

[Moredread25]

Very nice.