You are so right my friend and there's a law suit against blackhawk because an officer on duty had the serpa holster and it failed him during a shooting due to small sand debris on the button of the serpa holster ! Now blackhawk is released a statement saying that it's gonna make a fail safe serpa holster that can still be removable by other means (meaning a second emergency button) if the serpa button fails. I love my level 2 serpa so I will keep buying them simply because it's the fastest draw
Criticisms are based on lack of safe firearm handling and care. If you take care of your equipment i.e. not dropping it in sand, gravel, or a button factory then the equipment will take care of you. That finger shouldn't be in the trigger guard until you are on target and are sure to fire.
The holster is designed to be operated with your forefinger across the SERPA, not bent and pushing into it.
@babyeatsdingos Please explain how a police officer or soldier can avoid exposing a duty holster to mud/snow/sand/debris. The idea is asinine. Your only point hers is if you baby the holster properly it is unlikely to jam. Not compelling. As for the finger thing... OK... it is the users fault. Does the holster make it more likely that the user will fail in such a way? Obviously. That is all anyone is saying.
@TheodoreBeza You make the statement saying funny fact that many firearms training schools prohibit the use of the serpa holster. Do you have a list of all the schools that are prohibiting those? Can you send me that list?
@robgoedeker More discussion on this can be found in the blow comments. I also didn't say I had a list, as I appealed to common knowledge. Some schools that I immediately recall are Suarez, Tactical Response, Michigan Defensive Firearms Institute, FLETEC (virtually all federal agencies train here), Defoor, etc. There are others. I guess you have to use google if you want a comprehensive list, but the fact remains that many schools prohibit SERPA holsters.
@TheodoreBeza blow in the first sentence= below. The point is that this has been discussed and resolved here before: SERPAs are prohibited at many places.
@TheodoreBeza When you make the statement that many training schools have banned them, I wondering where you are getting your data to make such a statement. To make a statement like that, I would love to see where you are getting your facts.
@robgoedeker Well, the schools themselves put out press releases (again, available on google). Why don't you try google instead of pretending my statement is untrue? This is all common knowledge and this is a pretty stupid tail for you to be chasing. The statement "many schools prohibit the SERPA" is completely accurate and you could verify it any time. Also, this topic should already be over as I've listed the schools and you can verify that I am right any time.
Theo great vid of the guy in the dirt with the stuck gun. It was obvious to me that these guys where out to punch holes in the serpa holster and they did a great job. However, and i will say this again. If I'm going to be rolling around in the dirt this would not be the holster to use. Its more of a range and everyday cary holster. I've been in the Army for 22 years and know a thing or two about rolling around in the dirt but never with this kind of rig.
I'd like to see if that button can fit in there with the firearm in the holster (or debris between 1/4" and 1/8"). Not trying to push you down or anything.
good video but i can't see why i would ever place my gun or holster somewhere where this is junk like buttons and shit are laying around. Two things bro. 1. attention to detail. 2. check your equipment. this includes holsters and guns and you will be ok.
In every instance I have seen of this, it has been the "Sport" model of the CQC that has had this mishap. You are holding the normal version. It fits the gun tighter, so that debris is far harder to get in there. As well as from the outside, where there are molded edges around the serpa "trigger". It is the grooved "cut" where the finger slides down to release retention that allows the release to be stopped up, as well as the additional cutting down of the holster. cont...
@Cutyoudown000 which allows debris to get inside the holster. If you look at your normal CQC carefully, it fits tightly on the gun and debris has a VERY hard time of getting in there. I'm not knocking you. And I am a Serpa Fan. If you check Blackhawk!'s website, it says "For more hostile environments, see the regular CQC Serpa holster" directly on the "sport" model's page. :D I've had my lvl II in some ROUGH environment and covered it and myself with mud and debris. No malfunctions yet. :D
@beastmomohi18 That is simply incorrect as it pertains to this product. It is/was marketed as CQC Close Quarters Concealment and a simple google search on your part would reveal that.
I've added a link in the info section showing an example of a real life jam at a range. Please no more "I have not heard of this happening so it must have never happened" nonsense.
the only thing i have to say about the vid is how in the world does your finger slide an inch down when u press the button and u misfire ur weapon. poor user not product
I have not had the time to read all the comments so I just trough my two cents in. I am a cop that carries a level 2 serpa as well as soldier that has over 2.5 years down range (iraq/Afgan) carring a LV 2 serpa tactical thigh holster with no failures to draw. after fighting, low crawling and putting my serpas through hell not once did they fail. The dumbass that shot himself using the serps, Well that was bad traiing on his part. AWAYS check your equip before you go out on patrol
I've used a SERPA on my H&K USP Tactical for 3 years now, it's been through hell and back, through mud, grit, and oil, not one jam or anything. Holster still works like new and provides a good clean draw just like it's still new.
@TheodoreBeza Take better care of your holster. As I've clearly stated I've had my holster for 3 years with no failures to date, and the holster wear shows it.
@bolingersa Your experience doesn't prove anything. You'd expect there to be many holsters that never had a problem. Maintenance has NOTHING to do with it, as has been discussed many times in these comments. The jams happen suddenly and "taking better care" will do nothing to preventing. SNOW severely jams the thing, for God's sake.
@TheodoreBeza I wouldn't consider snow as severely jamming it, as I've watched the clip on the snow issue and the guy still got the gun out after a few tugs, so that's not severe. Severe would be not being able to get it out at all. From what you're saying, I would expect my holster to fail next time I use it, I'll remember that when I get a clean draw. Thanks for your time.
@bolingersa You are assuming that his 5-10 second jam from snow would be the max, which is foolish. Additionally, I don't want a 5-10 second delay and have to pull 9x to get my gun out of my holster. I think I want to draw faster than that if my life is on the line. I don't know why you'd make the assumption that your holster would fail the next time you use it "from what [I'm] saying." That is excessively stupid and I said nothing like that. Look up "might" if you have the time.
@TheodoreBeza I am sure you can do better than this by the way. These are pretty weaksauce arguments that concede the point. Why is a 5-10 second+ extra tugs jam acceptable to you?
@TheodoreBeza 5-10 secs is a reload for slower people. As stated I've not had a jam yet, however you keep saying the jam is inevitable, "maybe" is out of the door when you push info like this on people, hence my expecting the holster to jam next time (or anytime) that I use it. Also, a "few tugs" or even '5-10 secs" doesn't mean you are dead, you are assuming 1) the person is ample enough to shoot you 2) the person has a loaded gun that is ready to fire...
@bolingersa I never said inevitable. I never even said likely. You need to adjust your listening skills. A 5-10 second delay(if you are so lucky if it jams, my jam was longer) before drawing your pistol is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. You list hypothetical were is is possible that a jam does not kill you. Ok, sure- nice anecdote. Jams are still phenomenally bad I am sorry that you are trying to rationalize this. There are similar products that are not similarly defective. All risk, no reward.
@TheodoreBeza 3) that you're not smart enough to move for cover 4) that you don't have to deal with holster safeties and gun safeties 5) that you actually will have to shoot the guy... I can keep going.... The point is, you're trash talking a proven holster system that even I personally use, the only way this should be taken seriously is if there are multiple complaints about it which I haven't came across yet. Take care of your holster and it will take care of you. End of story.
@bolingersa It is not PROVEN when it is mechanically flawed and seals the weapon inside of itself when the smallest debris is introduced into the mechanism. Your not coming across complaints (as if you are a clearinghouse for such complaints) does not void their existence. This has happened to me, other youtubers, and I have seen it two more times at matches. The 3 jams I have personally witnessed are enough for me. WHY DO YOU KEEP IMPLYING THAT MAINTENANCE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS?
@TheodoreBeza You just said you saw 3 jams at matches? I'm assuming they are pistol IPSC type matches? If that's the case then you just proved me right, proper maintenance would have fixed that issue easily. You are also saying "when the smallest debris is introduced into the mechanism", I've been in sand, dirt, and mud with the holster and none of them have yet to "jam" the holster. Pretty much what I'm getting from this is if I put a desk in front of a door then it won't open....
@bolingersa Please explain how maintenance would prevent this. Please explain how it having happened at a mach proves anything related to maintenance. There is no amount of maintenance that will prevent sand and pebbles from entering into the mechanism and jamming in the field. You understand that "it has not happened to me" isn't an argument? It DOES happen, and the holster jams. Jury is in, pal.
@TheodoreBeza Easy fix... prevent the desk from being in front of the door and it will open fine. If the issue is as prominent as you claim it to be then why isn't there some uprising and more complaints being made? Hell, why hasn't Blackhawk posted up here explaining a "fix" plan or w/e? You're point seems to only be related to the fact that poor holster care is the problem. Even then, I've literally trashed this holster with no negative effects yet. I'll take pix if you don't believe it.
@bolingersa There ARE complaints. There are at least 5 youtube videos demonstrating it (some happened at a range) and more complaining online. That isn't an argument. Also, I don't claim it is prominent. You keep throwing up stupid straw men like that to feel better about defending something with a demonstrated defect. You keep mentioning that you haven't had a problem like that would surprise me. MOST USERS are not going to have a problem. The group that do will just have a bad problem.
@bolingersa the stupid thing about the desk analogy is that it would require you never take the holster out into the world. The world is full of debris and your analogy would require that the holster be kept away from it. Yeah, makes sense for law enforcement and military. Why were you in the sand/mud/snow? You are not taking care of your holster.
@stainless1911 That is stupid because you have no control over parts breakages. You fire your Yugo SKS and the firing pin breaks in the forward position, casing the next round to go off unintentionally. Negligence? Obviously not. You showed ordinary care and an unexpected intervening cause cause an accidental discharge. There's no negligence at all, and the use of the term negligent discharge is inaccurate. Sure... MOST AD's are also ND's... but the terms are not mutually exclusive.
@stainless1911 I had an M16 go off accidentally. at a gun range. The safety did not work and the act of setting the rifle down set the gun off. I initially thought it was me (I must have somehow pulled the trigger).. After the second time it happened, I began checking the rifle. I was able to repeat the process at the gun range. Put it on safe and set it down and it went off. The bump of setting it down fired the rifle. Needless to say, it went back to the armorer.
@stainless1911 you might argue that all accidental discharges are also negligent discharges, but you'd be wrong. Negligence is the lack of ordinary care. Parts breakages, slam fires, cookoffs, and other mechanical malfunctions can induce an ACCIDENTAL discharge that is NOT negligent. I kind of understand the purpose of the ND propaganda being to promote gun safety. That is great and all, but let's promote that in a way that is not demonstrably wrong- like saying that AD's don't exist.
@TheodoreBeza I agree, in the case of mechanical failures, cookoffs and the like, you're right. But in the cases of mishandling a firearm, or failure to train, or train properly with a weapon, or a holster, then that is negligent. If your finger got into the trigger and it went off, its negligence. If your keys were in your hand for example, and one got into the trigger guard, its the fault of the user.
@stainless1911 Sure. It is both accidental and negligent, which are not mutually exclusive terms. Going around saying "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE" is inaccurate in both a practical and technical sense. Accidental is synonymous with unexpected (technical). There are also plenty of accidental discharges that involve no negligence at all on anybody's part (practical).
@TheodoreBeza, I love your vid, and I agree with your review. I think they should be using the other side of the holster and the thumb to actuate the holding device. Also a rubber dust barrier would be a benefit.
as for saying the holster will make you have a accidental ND because you have to "twist/press" the button. recite weapon saftey rule #3. keep your finger straight an off the trigger until you are ready to fire. train X10. you dont have to press/twist your finger. keeping it straight over the botton is just fine. my finger land along side the fram just as its suppose to. by the way that bs can happen with any holster without following weapon saftey rule #3.
As I said, I dont care about that. There is a tendency for people to forget safety rules under pressure and clearly this holster exposes them to more danger than other holsters in the same situations. It isn't really Blackhawks fault that pressure happens. It IS blackhawks fault that they designed a defective jam-prone SERPA mechanism.
@TheodoreBeza no you dont just throw the rule book out the window in a stressful situation. We have the rules so you don't hurt yourself or your partner. having that attitude you already lost the fight. But whatever im glad your not my student
You clearly did not comprehend the jamming issue presented in the video. The issue is debris preventing the mechanism from operating. The fact that you have never had this failure is not an argument against its existence, which is well documented.
The two distinct types of failure you discuss are neither training nor design issues, but both.
As I demonstrate in the video, there is a secondary surface that provides plenty of space to get into the mechanism and jam it. You are also ignoring the fact that a pistol fills the HUGE hole, making it a pocket for shit to get caught in. Yes, you can jam it with sand. Other youtubers used snow to easily jam the mechanism by just pressing it down into a pile of snow. These jams are documented and settled, it is time to find a new product to fanboi for.
The chance of this happening is MUCH less then the probability of a bad round or the gun failing or malfunctioning. The sun could also burn out next week. The sky could fall. blah...blah...blah. You're irrationally paranoid. A super soaker would suit you better.
This kind of moronism is all too common. You have no idea if it is less common than a bad round. Even if it is the two are not related and do not reduce each other's risk... so why even compare them? You would not want the risk of a jam in addition to an ammo failure? Your obvious point is to say it is not worth thinking about. But you do think about ammo failures. Do you use 70's surplus ammo for carry or modern production? modern. too high of a risk of failure in the old
The fact that these are documented make them more common than you think. Given that there are better products out there it is a no-brainer. Considering the weaknesses of a defective product is rational. Using irrelevant comparisons and stating speculative guesses as fact is irrational.
The odds of a lot of things are slim. You still plan for them due to the potential downsides. In this case you would be unable to access your gun. Glock or non-glock does not matter for my criticism- the mechanism is the same. People with an irrational anti-glock bias are not known for critical thinking skills I guess. Glock only controls 80% of the law enforcement market, it is worth considering.
@TheodoreBeza thats why i dont like glock. not only the weapon system itsself but glock owners are above everyone else. "People with an irrational anti-glock bias are not known for critical thinking skills I guess." because i dont like glock i cant think. MAKES SENSE!
My statement was a reaction to stupidity. In order for your above claim to be true I would have had to make my statement before your bias revealed itself, which is impossible. Your argument is completely circular. What makes more sense is that Glock fans are defensive because of the stupidity displayed by critics. It is a better explanation and is not circular. Glock isn't even my favorite pistol, it is just obvious that the anti-glock bias is moronic
I didn't actually evaluate your thoughts on Glock because you didn't offer them. Why don't you like Glock? Explain it for me so we can know that I am wrong. You displayed such an obvious bias by reacting so poorly to Glock being used as an EXAMPLE. It makes it pretty obvious that your problems with the weapon will be petty, illogical, etc. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
U r not a train officer in drawing or finger placement plus no one puts a concealing holster in a place were something can jam it also we r trained to check our equipment before each shift
Please explain how checking your equipment before your shift will prevent it from failing mid-shift. This has been discussed several times here. It is stupid to say that you can check for a sudden failure.
i own 3 serpas, no issues in the least, since you have the ability to adjust the tension on the screws you shouldnt have an issue. None of the bores on my guns pertrude out the end like yours so who knows if your even using the one made for your gun. I use for concealed carry and it works great. Also none of mine have that extra plastic towards the top like yours.
It would help if you would listen to what I say in the video. That was a G17 in a G19 holster. There is no functional difference in any dimension relevant to the holster.. Tension screw adjustment does not prevent the locking mechanism from jamming. They modified the design of the top because it can pull the trigger. The locking mechanism is still the same and still defective.
It would help if you would listen to what I say in the video. That was a G17 in a G19 holster. There is no functional difference in any dimension relevant to the holster.. Tension screw adjustment does not prevent the locking mechanism from jamming. They modified the design of the top because it can pull the trigger. The locking mechanism is still the same and still defective.
By watching your poor gun handling skills it is clear that you don't carry a gun for a living. Your smooth hands tell that you are not a warrior in the profession of arms. This is topped by you not knowing what the hell you are talking about. ( It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt) but to make a video is just stupid...
Attention moron: what did I say demonstrates that I do not know what I am talking about? I'd be happy to discuss anything substantive rather than being subjected to your vapid insults. Also, I laughed my ass off at the smooth hands comment. I hope you can focus your mind on something fact related in the video rather than continuing to spew bullshit.
I own both a Serpa retention and a Fobus. The Fobus is very thin and cheaply made. The only thing I don't like about the Serpa design is the paddle is too big. The Fobus paddle is just the right size and padded on the back side. So there are good and bad points about both holsters. I have two leather holsters that fit the profile of my Glock, but after time it looses it shape and fails to mold to the weapon. All holsters like guns have there draw backs.
Wow, can't thank you enough for pointing this out. I would have never even considered that as a possibility without this video. I will still likely use the SERPA design holsters, but I will now, thanks to your video, be a lot more aware of things that could cause it to jam.
Do you know of other holsters with similar locking technological additions? Maybe that lock around the back of the gun similar to a button holster?
Thanks for this vid, my friend. I've owned two Serpa CQC's for a couple of years and love them as primary carry options for my M&P 40 and P229. Until I watched this, I would have sworn by them as 100% reliable and super fast and secure. But I've gotta admit, this is a scary type of failure, and it seems very likely in the real world. I'll still use my Serpa, but I'll certainly be very mindful of any conditions which might cause this. Thanks a bunch!
im a leo and my whole department which consists of 250 leo's has been using the serpa for years..not one failure reported yet...best holster out in my opinion..
Well you've been fortunate...when my agency switched over, we had a half dozen failures within the first few months. I personally did not switch, and went to a Blade-Tech instead. If you think the SERPA works for you, great. Just be aware - there are a lot of failures on these things. I'd choose a Safariland over the SERPA any day of the week.
First of all, get rid of your Glock. Although it's a fairly decent firearm (not a "gun" as you refer to several times) it was designed for professionals that are trained to use it properly. Secondly, I have 3 SERPA holsters that I use with my Springfield XD's and have never had any issues in the field, especially with pebbles, pennies or buttons. Maybe you should empty your pockets before putting your "gun" in them.
First: please use a dictionary before making yourself look like a fucking idiot again by pretending that gun isn't a proper term for a Glock 17. I don't care what bullshit terminology that was forced on you by someone with an agenda.
Second: are you saying that the holster cannot jam because you have not experienced it? Do you actually have a point here or where you just unable to avoid demonstrating how firmly your head is seated in your ass? Put your thinking cap on please.
i could get hit by a car and my gun be knocked from its secure position where it is then ran over by heavy machinery...fact is you can fabricate problems with any design...
UH huh. The difference is exposure to debris isn't far fetched and it is something that SHOULD NOT cause a holster to fail. Heavy machinery and all that would cause almost any holster to fail. The issue here is that the SERPA is prone to a failure that other holsters are not.
I agree that debris can get into the locking mechanism but if someone has an accidental discarge with a serpa holster it has to be 100% their fault
their is no way that someone can press the trigger because of the locking mechanism
the only way is that you take out the gun, move your finger into the trigger guard and press the trigger - and that you can do with any kind of holster
As I said: I do not care much about the accidental trigger pull stuff. I was just noting the criticism. My primary contention is with the lock up failure, which has been testified to and demonstrated in several places.
@geniusiknowit IF anyone is concerned about something getting in the possible pinch point on your Serpa CQC I did this. Evaluate it for yourself. I put a piece of soft foam in that space with double stick tape(glue would work also). It compresses easily and should keep buttons out. Instead of 11,000 posts of wasted time how about thinking of solutions. Blackhorse11th
you're not supposed to press it, you're supposed to simply slide your finger across and draw. not to say it's a perfect system, i've just never had a problem with it.
That is not the criticism I am making. You are talking about when people pull the trigger as they draw. While I note that criticism in my video, I don't care about it. It is unrelated to the actual design flaw. Shit gets behind the button and can jam it.
@TheodoreBeza Ok frist off if you carry wut's it doing in your glove box ? and your Holster is part of your gun so you need to make sure it's in good working order lol all my friends have them and never once have they had that prob
I use the glove box to store the gun and holster I have on me when I cannot carry it. SURPRISE. Please explain how inspection would solve this flaw. As has been demonstrated several times, this can happen at any time with the utmost attention paid to maintenance. My friends have had problems, as have I. So what does that mean re: your friends? Nothing. This happens and it has been demonstrated by others. Jury is back people.
@TheodoreBeza if i can not carr my gun in a place i slid my glok un the driver seat the holster stays on me therefore i no nothing can get in and jam it.
Actually, the trigger pull problem has happened with those 4 continent operators you were fellating earlier. However, I dont care about that because I agree that training is the predominant issue there.
I care about the lock up issue that has happened to me, others on youtube, and can be found with the magic of google.No dreaming, just die hard fanbois that cannot handle the fact that their favorite airsoft holster has a design flaw.
I didn't say you were airsoft. I said the holster was airsoft. For you and other comprehension challenged people: this implies that I think the relative quality of the SERPA holster is sub standard compared to competitors.
Were you born stupid or did you work at it? How can you possibly make up all that crap in your post? You have less evidence than I do, and I admit that mine is pure speculation on odds and personal experience.
When you say it works fine in all conditions you must mean EXCEPT when it jams, right? Because it does and anybody with a brain and google can find that out.
First off, thanks for making this video. I'm a firm supporter of Blackhawk products. The Lvl 3 Serpa has increased my qual score over 20 points and has greatly decreased my draw time. I have tried many holsters and I will not use anything but the Serpa. I'm glad you made this video though, because people like me have become very dependent upon the more modern, mechanical holsters. I would hope that all Serpa users are aware of this issue and train themselves to prevent it from happening.
Good post. I am sure there are circumstances where the benefits exceed the risk of the lock up. It is also worth noting that the Level 3 holster is SIGNIFICANTLY more rugged and shielded than the consumer level 2. The level 2 can get ripped right off it's mount with minor force and twisting. It is a lot harder with level 3.
Also, here is a video of a Serpa holster being thrown in dirt and mud over and over, and never failing to draw and never getting stuck. [ /watch?v=orQDGyjjoGU ]
Glad to see it, again: "mine works" isn't an argument. It obviously only happens in a small number of holsters exposed to debris. The severity of the lock up is the problem.
@TheodoreBeza the "I heard about it from this other guy" isn't an argument either. At least therealjarett did some sort of basic test that bore out his point that it seems to work fine. Saw you say that "most major gun training schools do not allow the serpa" can you provide documentation of that? because i didn't see that in any of the requirements on the Major ones I checked.
I didn't hear abou tit from the other guy. I heard about it from me. I will concede that it isn't an argument: and I did not use it as such. I just used it to counter the fools who were saying "mine works" as if that proves something.
I can retract "most" and make it "many and a growing number". I am not going to google everything for you. Prominent schools, major instructors. Farnum and Suarez come to mind off the top of my head.
@TheodoreBeza I seem to only be able to find Forums stating that these holsters are banned, no schools. I tried Gunsight, Sig academy, Front Sight and Thunder Ranch oh and the NRA LE and the IDPA allows them too. Since you are saying "mine works" isn't an argument and those who use it are fools, doesn't that place you squarely in the idiot camp?? Since you are talking about something that happened to you, once without any corroboration? so that would put you in the "mine Doesn't" column.
That was my point. I only use my experience to show that "mine works" is invalid. I base nothing on it. My entire argument is:
1. Debris can get behind the lock mechanism.
2. Debris behind the lock mechanism can prevent the button from depressing.
3. If the button cannot depress the gun is locked in the holster.
Refute those. At most you can say that it happens rarely, and I agree. The problem is that the failure is so severe that even occasional failure is unacceptable
@TheodoreBeza you want me to refute your statement ok. the locking stud is just over 1/8" the amount of travel allowed with an "unobstructed" lock is just over 1/2" the space between the holster body and the lock is approx 1/4" space between holster body and pistol is negligible. (all measurements are approx). so the debris would have to be a solid incompressible material around 3/8" or 7/16" which wouldn't fit. just some quick and dirty measurements, don't quote me on any of them.
I won't get asinine about measurements- I am glad you are working with it. Look behind the locking button. There is a "shelf" with a metal tab at the base of the button. THAT is where very small debris can have a disproportionate effect on the button's travel.
Now, you are right about the larger cavity. Generally that cavity is too big for small debris to fill. But look at what I am calling the "shelf". something much smaller like a button can do it easily.
@TheodoreBeza oh and I also disagree that you would have had to cut the holster off the gun, I was able to get a flat bladed screwdriver in between the lock side of the button and "pry" it open that way (had a button in the mechanism as you showed in your video, no gun in the holster)
Though I expressed it poorly, I mean cut the locking mechanism off. Some jams would be bad enough that you could not pry through it. Even if I am wrong, a holster failure that requires tools to fix is unacceptable.
@TheodoreBeza I listed All those places that do allow serpa so that none of us Fools would have to foul up using google. oh and as a side note, I just found out that Sig Arms has a very similar release system on their own line of holsters. To all the other Fools out there...I wonder if Google is over our heads and maybe we should switch to Bing or something?????
Actually they appear to be "itac" holsters. Complete garbage. I called them TAC TECH above but the company is "itac". Sig has a history of sticking their brand on shit 3rd party products- like when they put they name on a 25 dollar chinese arimpoint micro clone and marked it up to 200.
I have retracted "most". But I know tactical response, suarez, and others ban them. Alas, I am sick of Googling everything for every lazy blackhawk user.
lol. Substantiate your arguments bro. You just dropped in with sweeping generalizations that didn't even support your position. Has any holster failed in that manner? Are they prone to it? Why won't you address the central issue rather than droning on about how popular the holsters are?
Your taunting is stupid and makes you look like an ass who didnt read before posting. I have named instructors in this thread. However, I am not going to google everything for you. Farnum and suarez come to mind, so now you can STFU with your phony burden of proof. But try googling "serpa banned" and use your incredibly good brain to think about it for a second.
I am not dreaming anything. It happened to me and I simply demonstrated the mechanism by which it happened.
I checked out your great video and left a positive comment there :o)
The guy who made this video argues alot and can't tell me the date, the time, the place and how his Serpa jambed. I reckon he is just dreaming up something that is not there. No one I know has ever had a problem, I've never had a problem and Blackhawk seem to sell well. But this guy doesn't like that and takes it all personally, which he should, because he made the damn video.
Please reference one documented incident where this has happened in REAL LIFE and not purposely on a work bench and I will concede your argument as valid. You can give me any holster with a retention mechanism and I can find some off the wall way to fuck it up.
If you must insist that I am a liar and it did not happen to me, all you have to do is google "blackhawk serpa jam" to find real life incidents that happened at professional schools. There a couple of videos that demonstrate it "in real life". The only people who think this doesn't happen have not looked into it or have stuck their head in the sand.
@TheodoreBeza - Sir, I'm not saying you're purposely being dishonest and I'm sure you carry regularly or are in LE. I did Google "blackhawk serpa jam" and it returned exactly four pages and every page just showed a comment from you, I gotta say it was kinda funny. My point isn't that your assertion isn't possible but rather improbable. So improbable in fact that the only evidence of it occurring on the internet is in your videos.
Mine is NOT the only documented story. There are others. Your inability to use search tools is not my fault. Youtube comments do not apparently allow linking. However, I will PM you a couple. The google search order has changed, moving my video up. Read a little farther and it is all there. It is NOT improbable that it happens. It is just unlikely for an individual user. The drastic nature of the failure justifies the concern for a small percentage of failure.
@TheodoreBeza - No, I just put your query inside quotation marks like you had it when I came up with the result. I watched the video you linked to, actually before watching yours, and have to say that I would have been much more convinced if they had shown what was actually causing the blockage. As it was, it could have been something else besides a rock. The video only shows that someone who doesn't like the holster from the outset attempt to beat the hell out of something wasn't his.
It is not my fault you didn't read far enough in that search. Several documented cases still appear. Nobody ever said that video was a rock- it simply demonstrates that the holster jammed in the field. It dosen't matter that some of the people hate the holster- it happened. Put on your thinking cap and ask why people hate the holster- IT JAMS. I know it personally, so don't let a guy's attitude lead you to make stupid decisions.
@TheodoreBeza - I'm not disputing that it jammed and when I put on my thinking cap it tells me to be wary of people who have a prejudice against a product the are reviewing. I would have really like to have seen what caused the jam to exclude the possibility of it being user error. Instead the guy just makes a big show of it while treating the other guys property like shit. My thinking cap tells me that guy is a dick and to take is opinion with a grain of salt.
I would also like to point out that you said my claim was the ONLY one on the internet AFTER you watched the DSC video. That's funny because it was completely untrue and you knew it.
@TheodoreBeza - I'll admit when I'm incorrect. I shouldn't have made such a sweeping statement that you were the only making the claim. So, I concede the point. When I searched I placed your query inside quotation marks which is why it only showed posts from you.
Now, I still stand behind my other statement that if the problem you describe was systemic it would lead to the holster being recalled and it's use banned by major departments. As this has not happened I don't worry much about it.
@IlovemyGlock21 - There are whole police and sheriff's department that issue the LVL 3 holster for duty carry and if there were some sort of design flaw then the word would get out REALLY QUICK and departments would start scrapping them and banning their use by officers. The fact is that with the way it works I get a fast draw and my grip is correctly aligned when it comes out of the holster.
BTW, I don't think your being dishonest but just exaggerating the improbable.
You are so right my friend and there's a law suit against blackhawk because an officer on duty had the serpa holster and it failed him during a shooting due to small sand debris on the button of the serpa holster ! Now blackhawk is released a statement saying that it's gonna make a fail safe serpa holster that can still be removable by other means (meaning a second emergency button) if the serpa button fails. I love my level 2 serpa so I will keep buying them simply because it's the fastest draw
agsd619 2 days ago
Criticisms are based on lack of safe firearm handling and care. If you take care of your equipment i.e. not dropping it in sand, gravel, or a button factory then the equipment will take care of you. That finger shouldn't be in the trigger guard until you are on target and are sure to fire.
The holster is designed to be operated with your forefinger across the SERPA, not bent and pushing into it.
babyeatsdingos 1 week ago
@babyeatsdingos Please explain how a police officer or soldier can avoid exposing a duty holster to mud/snow/sand/debris. The idea is asinine. Your only point hers is if you baby the holster properly it is unlikely to jam. Not compelling. As for the finger thing... OK... it is the users fault. Does the holster make it more likely that the user will fail in such a way? Obviously. That is all anyone is saying.
TheodoreBeza 1 week ago
You can occur a ND using ANY holster.
robgoedeker 4 weeks ago
@robgoedeker
And nobody ever said otherwise.
TheodoreBeza 4 weeks ago
@TheodoreBeza You make the statement saying funny fact that many firearms training schools prohibit the use of the serpa holster. Do you have a list of all the schools that are prohibiting those? Can you send me that list?
robgoedeker 4 weeks ago
@robgoedeker More discussion on this can be found in the blow comments. I also didn't say I had a list, as I appealed to common knowledge. Some schools that I immediately recall are Suarez, Tactical Response, Michigan Defensive Firearms Institute, FLETEC (virtually all federal agencies train here), Defoor, etc. There are others. I guess you have to use google if you want a comprehensive list, but the fact remains that many schools prohibit SERPA holsters.
TheodoreBeza 4 weeks ago
@TheodoreBeza blow in the first sentence= below. The point is that this has been discussed and resolved here before: SERPAs are prohibited at many places.
TheodoreBeza 4 weeks ago
@TheodoreBeza When you make the statement that many training schools have banned them, I wondering where you are getting your data to make such a statement. To make a statement like that, I would love to see where you are getting your facts.
robgoedeker 4 weeks ago
@robgoedeker Well, the schools themselves put out press releases (again, available on google). Why don't you try google instead of pretending my statement is untrue? This is all common knowledge and this is a pretty stupid tail for you to be chasing. The statement "many schools prohibit the SERPA" is completely accurate and you could verify it any time. Also, this topic should already be over as I've listed the schools and you can verify that I am right any time.
TheodoreBeza 4 weeks ago
Theo great vid of the guy in the dirt with the stuck gun. It was obvious to me that these guys where out to punch holes in the serpa holster and they did a great job. However, and i will say this again. If I'm going to be rolling around in the dirt this would not be the holster to use. Its more of a range and everyday cary holster. I've been in the Army for 22 years and know a thing or two about rolling around in the dirt but never with this kind of rig.
rayray5340 2 months ago
@rayray5340 whats the point of every day carrying a gun if you can't draw it when you need to?
kinghoju 1 month ago
can you fit a real g18c?
joe23ba 2 months ago
I'd like to see if that button can fit in there with the firearm in the holster (or debris between 1/4" and 1/8"). Not trying to push you down or anything.
RGT1986 2 months ago
good video but i can't see why i would ever place my gun or holster somewhere where this is junk like buttons and shit are laying around. Two things bro. 1. attention to detail. 2. check your equipment. this includes holsters and guns and you will be ok.
rayray5340 2 months ago
@rayray5340 Debris exists everywhere. Mud, snow, etc. Checking your holster before going out does nothing if it fails while you are out.
TheodoreBeza 2 months ago
@rayray5340 Your dumb...debris are everywhere
Gentleman4561 1 month ago
hey is there any way to put these holsters on a drop leg mount or a molle vest
caywood89 2 months ago in playlist Blackhawk SERPA holster failures and criticisms
@caywood89 they make holsters with the same failboad design for both of those.
TheodoreBeza 2 months ago
In every instance I have seen of this, it has been the "Sport" model of the CQC that has had this mishap. You are holding the normal version. It fits the gun tighter, so that debris is far harder to get in there. As well as from the outside, where there are molded edges around the serpa "trigger". It is the grooved "cut" where the finger slides down to release retention that allows the release to be stopped up, as well as the additional cutting down of the holster. cont...
Cutyoudown000 2 months ago
@Cutyoudown000 which allows debris to get inside the holster. If you look at your normal CQC carefully, it fits tightly on the gun and debris has a VERY hard time of getting in there. I'm not knocking you. And I am a Serpa Fan. If you check Blackhawk!'s website, it says "For more hostile environments, see the regular CQC Serpa holster" directly on the "sport" model's page. :D I've had my lvl II in some ROUGH environment and covered it and myself with mud and debris. No malfunctions yet. :D
Cutyoudown000 2 months ago
CQC stands for Close Quarters Combat, not concealment...
beastmomohi18 2 months ago
@beastmomohi18 That is simply incorrect as it pertains to this product. It is/was marketed as CQC Close Quarters Concealment and a simple google search on your part would reveal that.
TheodoreBeza 2 months ago
@beastmomohi18 BURNED!
kinghoju 1 month ago
@kinghoju no
not at all.
beastmomohi18 1 month ago
I've added a link in the info section showing an example of a real life jam at a range. Please no more "I have not heard of this happening so it must have never happened" nonsense.
TheodoreBeza 2 months ago
the only thing i have to say about the vid is how in the world does your finger slide an inch down when u press the button and u misfire ur weapon. poor user not product
tegi59 3 months ago
@tegi59 We are not talking about that here, though there are some fair criticisms of the design there.
TheodoreBeza 2 months ago
I have not had the time to read all the comments so I just trough my two cents in. I am a cop that carries a level 2 serpa as well as soldier that has over 2.5 years down range (iraq/Afgan) carring a LV 2 serpa tactical thigh holster with no failures to draw. after fighting, low crawling and putting my serpas through hell not once did they fail. The dumbass that shot himself using the serps, Well that was bad traiing on his part. AWAYS check your equip before you go out on patrol
cannon5ac 3 months ago
I've used a SERPA on my H&K USP Tactical for 3 years now, it's been through hell and back, through mud, grit, and oil, not one jam or anything. Holster still works like new and provides a good clean draw just like it's still new.
bolingersa 3 months ago
@bolingersa Not an argument. What do you say to those who have had their SERPA lock up in similar conditions? Better luck next time?
TheodoreBeza 3 months ago
@TheodoreBeza Take better care of your holster. As I've clearly stated I've had my holster for 3 years with no failures to date, and the holster wear shows it.
bolingersa 3 months ago
@bolingersa Your experience doesn't prove anything. You'd expect there to be many holsters that never had a problem. Maintenance has NOTHING to do with it, as has been discussed many times in these comments. The jams happen suddenly and "taking better care" will do nothing to preventing. SNOW severely jams the thing, for God's sake.
TheodoreBeza 3 months ago
@TheodoreBeza I wouldn't consider snow as severely jamming it, as I've watched the clip on the snow issue and the guy still got the gun out after a few tugs, so that's not severe. Severe would be not being able to get it out at all. From what you're saying, I would expect my holster to fail next time I use it, I'll remember that when I get a clean draw. Thanks for your time.
bolingersa 3 months ago
@bolingersa You are assuming that his 5-10 second jam from snow would be the max, which is foolish. Additionally, I don't want a 5-10 second delay and have to pull 9x to get my gun out of my holster. I think I want to draw faster than that if my life is on the line. I don't know why you'd make the assumption that your holster would fail the next time you use it "from what [I'm] saying." That is excessively stupid and I said nothing like that. Look up "might" if you have the time.
TheodoreBeza 3 months ago
@TheodoreBeza I am sure you can do better than this by the way. These are pretty weaksauce arguments that concede the point. Why is a 5-10 second+ extra tugs jam acceptable to you?
TheodoreBeza 3 months ago
@TheodoreBeza 5-10 secs is a reload for slower people. As stated I've not had a jam yet, however you keep saying the jam is inevitable, "maybe" is out of the door when you push info like this on people, hence my expecting the holster to jam next time (or anytime) that I use it. Also, a "few tugs" or even '5-10 secs" doesn't mean you are dead, you are assuming 1) the person is ample enough to shoot you 2) the person has a loaded gun that is ready to fire...
bolingersa 3 months ago
@bolingersa I never said inevitable. I never even said likely. You need to adjust your listening skills. A 5-10 second delay(if you are so lucky if it jams, my jam was longer) before drawing your pistol is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. You list hypothetical were is is possible that a jam does not kill you. Ok, sure- nice anecdote. Jams are still phenomenally bad I am sorry that you are trying to rationalize this. There are similar products that are not similarly defective. All risk, no reward.
TheodoreBeza 3 months ago
@TheodoreBeza 3) that you're not smart enough to move for cover 4) that you don't have to deal with holster safeties and gun safeties 5) that you actually will have to shoot the guy... I can keep going.... The point is, you're trash talking a proven holster system that even I personally use, the only way this should be taken seriously is if there are multiple complaints about it which I haven't came across yet. Take care of your holster and it will take care of you. End of story.
bolingersa 3 months ago
@bolingersa It is not PROVEN when it is mechanically flawed and seals the weapon inside of itself when the smallest debris is introduced into the mechanism. Your not coming across complaints (as if you are a clearinghouse for such complaints) does not void their existence. This has happened to me, other youtubers, and I have seen it two more times at matches. The 3 jams I have personally witnessed are enough for me. WHY DO YOU KEEP IMPLYING THAT MAINTENANCE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS?
TheodoreBeza 3 months ago
@TheodoreBeza You just said you saw 3 jams at matches? I'm assuming they are pistol IPSC type matches? If that's the case then you just proved me right, proper maintenance would have fixed that issue easily. You are also saying "when the smallest debris is introduced into the mechanism", I've been in sand, dirt, and mud with the holster and none of them have yet to "jam" the holster. Pretty much what I'm getting from this is if I put a desk in front of a door then it won't open....
bolingersa 3 months ago
@bolingersa Please explain how maintenance would prevent this. Please explain how it having happened at a mach proves anything related to maintenance. There is no amount of maintenance that will prevent sand and pebbles from entering into the mechanism and jamming in the field. You understand that "it has not happened to me" isn't an argument? It DOES happen, and the holster jams. Jury is in, pal.
TheodoreBeza 3 months ago
@TheodoreBeza Easy fix... prevent the desk from being in front of the door and it will open fine. If the issue is as prominent as you claim it to be then why isn't there some uprising and more complaints being made? Hell, why hasn't Blackhawk posted up here explaining a "fix" plan or w/e? You're point seems to only be related to the fact that poor holster care is the problem. Even then, I've literally trashed this holster with no negative effects yet. I'll take pix if you don't believe it.
bolingersa 3 months ago
@bolingersa There ARE complaints. There are at least 5 youtube videos demonstrating it (some happened at a range) and more complaining online. That isn't an argument. Also, I don't claim it is prominent. You keep throwing up stupid straw men like that to feel better about defending something with a demonstrated defect. You keep mentioning that you haven't had a problem like that would surprise me. MOST USERS are not going to have a problem. The group that do will just have a bad problem.
TheodoreBeza 3 months ago
@bolingersa the stupid thing about the desk analogy is that it would require you never take the holster out into the world. The world is full of debris and your analogy would require that the holster be kept away from it. Yeah, makes sense for law enforcement and military. Why were you in the sand/mud/snow? You are not taking care of your holster.
TheodoreBeza 3 months ago
Problem with other holsters I’ve used is they will drop your mag if you’re running, SERPA won't release your mag.
Crazysniperman 4 months ago
I'm an Infantryman. I carried my M9 in a SERPA for an entire tour in Afghanistan. Not a single problem. Just saying.
CutthroatTwoSix 4 months ago
A simple fix, would be a rubber shield bonded over the lock system. One on the inside, one on the outside.
stainless1911 5 months ago
@stainless1911 Sure. Blackhaws should add that. Until that day.... Still, that would not fix other problems, like the belt attachment weakness.
TheodoreBeza 5 months ago
no such thing as an accidental discharge. Its a negligent discharge.
stainless1911 5 months ago
@stainless1911
I wish people would stop spewing this ND bullshit. The two terms are not mutually exclusive. Accident= 1.
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss. The key is UNINTENTIONALLY.
TheodoreBeza 5 months ago
@TheodoreBeza You are in control of your weapon, If it goes off unintentionally, it's negligence.
stainless1911 5 months ago
@stainless1911 That is stupid because you have no control over parts breakages. You fire your Yugo SKS and the firing pin breaks in the forward position, casing the next round to go off unintentionally. Negligence? Obviously not. You showed ordinary care and an unexpected intervening cause cause an accidental discharge. There's no negligence at all, and the use of the term negligent discharge is inaccurate. Sure... MOST AD's are also ND's... but the terms are not mutually exclusive.
TheodoreBeza 5 months ago
@stainless1911 I had an M16 go off accidentally. at a gun range. The safety did not work and the act of setting the rifle down set the gun off. I initially thought it was me (I must have somehow pulled the trigger).. After the second time it happened, I began checking the rifle. I was able to repeat the process at the gun range. Put it on safe and set it down and it went off. The bump of setting it down fired the rifle. Needless to say, it went back to the armorer.
frankgon4 5 months ago
@stainless1911 you might argue that all accidental discharges are also negligent discharges, but you'd be wrong. Negligence is the lack of ordinary care. Parts breakages, slam fires, cookoffs, and other mechanical malfunctions can induce an ACCIDENTAL discharge that is NOT negligent. I kind of understand the purpose of the ND propaganda being to promote gun safety. That is great and all, but let's promote that in a way that is not demonstrably wrong- like saying that AD's don't exist.
TheodoreBeza 5 months ago
@TheodoreBeza I agree, in the case of mechanical failures, cookoffs and the like, you're right. But in the cases of mishandling a firearm, or failure to train, or train properly with a weapon, or a holster, then that is negligent. If your finger got into the trigger and it went off, its negligence. If your keys were in your hand for example, and one got into the trigger guard, its the fault of the user.
stainless1911 5 months ago
@stainless1911 Sure. It is both accidental and negligent, which are not mutually exclusive terms. Going around saying "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE" is inaccurate in both a practical and technical sense. Accidental is synonymous with unexpected (technical). There are also plenty of accidental discharges that involve no negligence at all on anybody's part (practical).
TheodoreBeza 5 months ago
I know lets check our weapon's chamber one more time, one more time, one more time, can you say OCD +__+
whatever7x7 6 months ago
@whatever7x7
First video; nervous habit; safe procedure.
TheodoreBeza 6 months ago
@TheodoreBeza, I love your vid, and I agree with your review. I think they should be using the other side of the holster and the thumb to actuate the holding device. Also a rubber dust barrier would be a benefit.
whatever7x7 6 months ago
as for saying the holster will make you have a accidental ND because you have to "twist/press" the button. recite weapon saftey rule #3. keep your finger straight an off the trigger until you are ready to fire. train X10. you dont have to press/twist your finger. keeping it straight over the botton is just fine. my finger land along side the fram just as its suppose to. by the way that bs can happen with any holster without following weapon saftey rule #3.
stewpidaso26 7 months ago
@stewpidaso26
As I said, I dont care about that. There is a tendency for people to forget safety rules under pressure and clearly this holster exposes them to more danger than other holsters in the same situations. It isn't really Blackhawks fault that pressure happens. It IS blackhawks fault that they designed a defective jam-prone SERPA mechanism.
TheodoreBeza 6 months ago
@TheodoreBeza no you dont just throw the rule book out the window in a stressful situation. We have the rules so you don't hurt yourself or your partner. having that attitude you already lost the fight. But whatever im glad your not my student
stewpidaso26 6 months ago
@stewpidaso26 agreed. Keep your finger where it belongs.
stainless1911 5 months ago
Yes, it can "jam" if you pull up before putting your finger on the release. Press down slightly as you lay your finger on the lever, problem solved.
Curved finger on the release lever? Training issue, not a design issue.
I've had and used a SERPA for years. I've carried it, I've drawn from it more than I can even count. It has never, EVER failed me in any way.
The trainers banning it? Lazy bitches who take students out to "run" before they can "walk".
immikeurnot 7 months ago
@immikeurnot
You clearly did not comprehend the jamming issue presented in the video. The issue is debris preventing the mechanism from operating. The fact that you have never had this failure is not an argument against its existence, which is well documented.
The two distinct types of failure you discuss are neither training nor design issues, but both.
TheodoreBeza 7 months ago
@TheodoreBeza
It's not just that I've never experienced it. It's that there's a HUGE FUCKING HOLE UNDER THE BUTTON. You're not going to jam it with "sand".
immikeurnot 7 months ago
@immikeurnot
As I demonstrate in the video, there is a secondary surface that provides plenty of space to get into the mechanism and jam it. You are also ignoring the fact that a pistol fills the HUGE hole, making it a pocket for shit to get caught in. Yes, you can jam it with sand. Other youtubers used snow to easily jam the mechanism by just pressing it down into a pile of snow. These jams are documented and settled, it is time to find a new product to fanboi for.
TheodoreBeza 7 months ago
@TheodoreBeza I'm not a fanboi. I'm just sick of people trying to blame hardware for software problems.
No, this will not jam with sand. The only sand here is in your vag, man.
immikeurnot 7 months ago
The chance of this happening is MUCH less then the probability of a bad round or the gun failing or malfunctioning. The sun could also burn out next week. The sky could fall. blah...blah...blah. You're irrationally paranoid. A super soaker would suit you better.
454RedHawk 8 months ago
@454RedHawk
This kind of moronism is all too common. You have no idea if it is less common than a bad round. Even if it is the two are not related and do not reduce each other's risk... so why even compare them? You would not want the risk of a jam in addition to an ammo failure? Your obvious point is to say it is not worth thinking about. But you do think about ammo failures. Do you use 70's surplus ammo for carry or modern production? modern. too high of a risk of failure in the old
TheodoreBeza 7 months ago
@454RedHawk
The fact that these are documented make them more common than you think. Given that there are better products out there it is a no-brainer. Considering the weaknesses of a defective product is rational. Using irrelevant comparisons and stating speculative guesses as fact is irrational.
TheodoreBeza 7 months ago
Idiot.........Get a refund and quit bitchin.
454RedHawk 8 months ago
For a guy who must continuously safety check his gun, maybe ya think you're just paranoid?
One safety check is fine dude. I don't think rounds just jump into the champber while you're not looking.
toobadsosad83 8 months ago
Great public service announcement, my question is: can you apply a heavy tape or epoxy to build an inner wall to prevent anything from falling in???
guntek18 10 months ago
this is why people carry a backup or two. honestly, the odds of this are slim i bet. i lost interest when Glock was mentioned
Doc3514937 11 months ago
@Doc3514937
The odds of a lot of things are slim. You still plan for them due to the potential downsides. In this case you would be unable to access your gun. Glock or non-glock does not matter for my criticism- the mechanism is the same. People with an irrational anti-glock bias are not known for critical thinking skills I guess. Glock only controls 80% of the law enforcement market, it is worth considering.
TheodoreBeza 11 months ago
@TheodoreBeza thats why i dont like glock. not only the weapon system itsself but glock owners are above everyone else. "People with an irrational anti-glock bias are not known for critical thinking skills I guess." because i dont like glock i cant think. MAKES SENSE!
Doc3514937 11 months ago
@Doc3514937
My statement was a reaction to stupidity. In order for your above claim to be true I would have had to make my statement before your bias revealed itself, which is impossible. Your argument is completely circular. What makes more sense is that Glock fans are defensive because of the stupidity displayed by critics. It is a better explanation and is not circular. Glock isn't even my favorite pistol, it is just obvious that the anti-glock bias is moronic
TheodoreBeza 11 months ago
@Doc3514937
I didn't actually evaluate your thoughts on Glock because you didn't offer them. Why don't you like Glock? Explain it for me so we can know that I am wrong. You displayed such an obvious bias by reacting so poorly to Glock being used as an EXAMPLE. It makes it pretty obvious that your problems with the weapon will be petty, illogical, etc. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
TheodoreBeza 11 months ago
U r not a train officer in drawing or finger placement plus no one puts a concealing holster in a place were something can jam it also we r trained to check our equipment before each shift
1tallons 11 months ago
@1tallons
Please explain how checking your equipment before your shift will prevent it from failing mid-shift. This has been discussed several times here. It is stupid to say that you can check for a sudden failure.
TheodoreBeza 11 months ago
i own 3 serpas, no issues in the least, since you have the ability to adjust the tension on the screws you shouldnt have an issue. None of the bores on my guns pertrude out the end like yours so who knows if your even using the one made for your gun. I use for concealed carry and it works great. Also none of mine have that extra plastic towards the top like yours.
pjicleanair420 1 year ago
@pjicleanair420
It would help if you would listen to what I say in the video. That was a G17 in a G19 holster. There is no functional difference in any dimension relevant to the holster.. Tension screw adjustment does not prevent the locking mechanism from jamming. They modified the design of the top because it can pull the trigger. The locking mechanism is still the same and still defective.
TheodoreBeza 11 months ago
@pjicleanair420
It would help if you would listen to what I say in the video. That was a G17 in a G19 holster. There is no functional difference in any dimension relevant to the holster.. Tension screw adjustment does not prevent the locking mechanism from jamming. They modified the design of the top because it can pull the trigger. The locking mechanism is still the same and still defective.
TheodoreBeza 11 months ago
Good job. Very fair argument.
indigopanther 1 year ago
oh crap! I did not know this! THANKS DUDE!!!!
iluvmym4 1 year ago
By watching your poor gun handling skills it is clear that you don't carry a gun for a living. Your smooth hands tell that you are not a warrior in the profession of arms. This is topped by you not knowing what the hell you are talking about. ( It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt) but to make a video is just stupid...
CV114 1 year ago
@CV114
Attention moron: what did I say demonstrates that I do not know what I am talking about? I'd be happy to discuss anything substantive rather than being subjected to your vapid insults. Also, I laughed my ass off at the smooth hands comment. I hope you can focus your mind on something fact related in the video rather than continuing to spew bullshit.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@CV114 LOL @ smooth hands tell he's not a warrior. YOU MY FRIEND ARE A NUT..LMBO
str8jacket3044 1 year ago
@CV114 Stop worrying about other dude's hands, what are you some kind of complete and utter homosexual or something?
tronclay 1 year ago
I own both a Serpa retention and a Fobus. The Fobus is very thin and cheaply made. The only thing I don't like about the Serpa design is the paddle is too big. The Fobus paddle is just the right size and padded on the back side. So there are good and bad points about both holsters. I have two leather holsters that fit the profile of my Glock, but after time it looses it shape and fails to mold to the weapon. All holsters like guns have there draw backs.
capman911 1 year ago
Wow, can't thank you enough for pointing this out. I would have never even considered that as a possibility without this video. I will still likely use the SERPA design holsters, but I will now, thanks to your video, be a lot more aware of things that could cause it to jam.
Do you know of other holsters with similar locking technological additions? Maybe that lock around the back of the gun similar to a button holster?
donphonica 1 year ago
@donphonica
Safariland makes a locking system. I think bianchi does too. They seem less prone to jamming but I am unsure.
TheodoreBeza 11 months ago
if the release botton brakes and you need your gun after your done defending yourself you will notice your holster in pieces on the ground
bordersoldier 1 year ago
Thanks for this vid, my friend. I've owned two Serpa CQC's for a couple of years and love them as primary carry options for my M&P 40 and P229. Until I watched this, I would have sworn by them as 100% reliable and super fast and secure. But I've gotta admit, this is a scary type of failure, and it seems very likely in the real world. I'll still use my Serpa, but I'll certainly be very mindful of any conditions which might cause this. Thanks a bunch!
TheApostleP 1 year ago
im a leo and my whole department which consists of 250 leo's has been using the serpa for years..not one failure reported yet...best holster out in my opinion..
djkron532 1 year ago
@djkron532
Well you've been fortunate...when my agency switched over, we had a half dozen failures within the first few months. I personally did not switch, and went to a Blade-Tech instead. If you think the SERPA works for you, great. Just be aware - there are a lot of failures on these things. I'd choose a Safariland over the SERPA any day of the week.
617Ghost 1 year ago
@djkron532
What would you say to the people who have had jams? That is cannot be true because 250 users have not yet had a problem?
TheodoreBeza 11 months ago
First of all, get rid of your Glock. Although it's a fairly decent firearm (not a "gun" as you refer to several times) it was designed for professionals that are trained to use it properly. Secondly, I have 3 SERPA holsters that I use with my Springfield XD's and have never had any issues in the field, especially with pebbles, pennies or buttons. Maybe you should empty your pockets before putting your "gun" in them.
roth0211 1 year ago
@roth0211
First: please use a dictionary before making yourself look like a fucking idiot again by pretending that gun isn't a proper term for a Glock 17. I don't care what bullshit terminology that was forced on you by someone with an agenda.
Second: are you saying that the holster cannot jam because you have not experienced it? Do you actually have a point here or where you just unable to avoid demonstrating how firmly your head is seated in your ass? Put your thinking cap on please.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
i could get hit by a car and my gun be knocked from its secure position where it is then ran over by heavy machinery...fact is you can fabricate problems with any design...
CPLBSS88 1 year ago
@CPLBSS88
UH huh. The difference is exposure to debris isn't far fetched and it is something that SHOULD NOT cause a holster to fail. Heavy machinery and all that would cause almost any holster to fail. The issue here is that the SERPA is prone to a failure that other holsters are not.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
Which major firearms training schools wont let you use them?
PGTRegard 1 year ago
@PGTRegard
Read comments below.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
I agree that debris can get into the locking mechanism but if someone has an accidental discarge with a serpa holster it has to be 100% their fault
their is no way that someone can press the trigger because of the locking mechanism
the only way is that you take out the gun, move your finger into the trigger guard and press the trigger - and that you can do with any kind of holster
Polenar 1 year ago
@Polenar
As I said: I do not care much about the accidental trigger pull stuff. I was just noting the criticism. My primary contention is with the lock up failure, which has been testified to and demonstrated in several places.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
If the button jams, just fall onto your back, and shoot with the gun still in the holster.
geniusiknowit 1 year ago
@geniusiknowit
LOL. I wish that that were an option. Of course the trigger guard is protected so that is impossible.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@geniusiknowit IF anyone is concerned about something getting in the possible pinch point on your Serpa CQC I did this. Evaluate it for yourself. I put a piece of soft foam in that space with double stick tape(glue would work also). It compresses easily and should keep buttons out. Instead of 11,000 posts of wasted time how about thinking of solutions. Blackhorse11th
Blackhorse11th 1 year ago
you're not supposed to press it, you're supposed to simply slide your finger across and draw. not to say it's a perfect system, i've just never had a problem with it.
cardiacthapoet 1 year ago
@cardiacthapoet
That is not the criticism I am making. You are talking about when people pull the trigger as they draw. While I note that criticism in my video, I don't care about it. It is unrelated to the actual design flaw. Shit gets behind the button and can jam it.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza Ok frist off if you carry wut's it doing in your glove box ? and your Holster is part of your gun so you need to make sure it's in good working order lol all my friends have them and never once have they had that prob
Pitviper4Gunrights 1 year ago
@Pitviper4Gunrights
I use the glove box to store the gun and holster I have on me when I cannot carry it. SURPRISE. Please explain how inspection would solve this flaw. As has been demonstrated several times, this can happen at any time with the utmost attention paid to maintenance. My friends have had problems, as have I. So what does that mean re: your friends? Nothing. This happens and it has been demonstrated by others. Jury is back people.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza if i can not carr my gun in a place i slid my glok un the driver seat the holster stays on me therefore i no nothing can get in and jam it.
Pitviper4Gunrights 1 year ago
Comment removed
ihaveairlockers 1 year ago
@ihaveairlockers
Actually, the trigger pull problem has happened with those 4 continent operators you were fellating earlier. However, I dont care about that because I agree that training is the predominant issue there.
I care about the lock up issue that has happened to me, others on youtube, and can be found with the magic of google.No dreaming, just die hard fanbois that cannot handle the fact that their favorite airsoft holster has a design flaw.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
Comment removed
ihaveairlockers 1 year ago
@ihaveairlockers
I didn't say you were airsoft. I said the holster was airsoft. For you and other comprehension challenged people: this implies that I think the relative quality of the SERPA holster is sub standard compared to competitors.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
Comment removed
ihaveairlockers 1 year ago
@ihaveairlockers
I cannot even describe how stupid this comment is. From the unscientific poll to the continent issue: stupid. FUCKING USE GOOGLE.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
Comment removed
ihaveairlockers 1 year ago
@ihaveairlockers
Were you born stupid or did you work at it? How can you possibly make up all that crap in your post? You have less evidence than I do, and I admit that mine is pure speculation on odds and personal experience.
When you say it works fine in all conditions you must mean EXCEPT when it jams, right? Because it does and anybody with a brain and google can find that out.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
First off, thanks for making this video. I'm a firm supporter of Blackhawk products. The Lvl 3 Serpa has increased my qual score over 20 points and has greatly decreased my draw time. I have tried many holsters and I will not use anything but the Serpa. I'm glad you made this video though, because people like me have become very dependent upon the more modern, mechanical holsters. I would hope that all Serpa users are aware of this issue and train themselves to prevent it from happening.
ndrichyung 1 year ago
@ndrichyung
Good post. I am sure there are circumstances where the benefits exceed the risk of the lock up. It is also worth noting that the Level 3 holster is SIGNIFICANTLY more rugged and shielded than the consumer level 2. The level 2 can get ripped right off it's mount with minor force and twisting. It is a lot harder with level 3.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
10,000 view.
locknloadvideo 1 year ago
Also, here is a video of a Serpa holster being thrown in dirt and mud over and over, and never failing to draw and never getting stuck. [ /watch?v=orQDGyjjoGU ]
therealjarett 1 year ago
@therealjarett
Glad to see it, again: "mine works" isn't an argument. It obviously only happens in a small number of holsters exposed to debris. The severity of the lock up is the problem.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza the "I heard about it from this other guy" isn't an argument either. At least therealjarett did some sort of basic test that bore out his point that it seems to work fine. Saw you say that "most major gun training schools do not allow the serpa" can you provide documentation of that? because i didn't see that in any of the requirements on the Major ones I checked.
dragonwraith1 1 year ago
Comment removed
ihaveairlockers 1 year ago
@dragonwraith1
I didn't hear abou tit from the other guy. I heard about it from me. I will concede that it isn't an argument: and I did not use it as such. I just used it to counter the fools who were saying "mine works" as if that proves something.
I can retract "most" and make it "many and a growing number". I am not going to google everything for you. Prominent schools, major instructors. Farnum and Suarez come to mind off the top of my head.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza I seem to only be able to find Forums stating that these holsters are banned, no schools. I tried Gunsight, Sig academy, Front Sight and Thunder Ranch oh and the NRA LE and the IDPA allows them too. Since you are saying "mine works" isn't an argument and those who use it are fools, doesn't that place you squarely in the idiot camp?? Since you are talking about something that happened to you, once without any corroboration? so that would put you in the "mine Doesn't" column.
dragonwraith1 1 year ago
@dragonwraith1
That was my point. I only use my experience to show that "mine works" is invalid. I base nothing on it. My entire argument is:
1. Debris can get behind the lock mechanism.
2. Debris behind the lock mechanism can prevent the button from depressing.
3. If the button cannot depress the gun is locked in the holster.
Refute those. At most you can say that it happens rarely, and I agree. The problem is that the failure is so severe that even occasional failure is unacceptable
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza you want me to refute your statement ok. the locking stud is just over 1/8" the amount of travel allowed with an "unobstructed" lock is just over 1/2" the space between the holster body and the lock is approx 1/4" space between holster body and pistol is negligible. (all measurements are approx). so the debris would have to be a solid incompressible material around 3/8" or 7/16" which wouldn't fit. just some quick and dirty measurements, don't quote me on any of them.
dragonwraith1 1 year ago
@dragonwraith1
I won't get asinine about measurements- I am glad you are working with it. Look behind the locking button. There is a "shelf" with a metal tab at the base of the button. THAT is where very small debris can have a disproportionate effect on the button's travel.
Now, you are right about the larger cavity. Generally that cavity is too big for small debris to fill. But look at what I am calling the "shelf". something much smaller like a button can do it easily.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza oh and I also disagree that you would have had to cut the holster off the gun, I was able to get a flat bladed screwdriver in between the lock side of the button and "pry" it open that way (had a button in the mechanism as you showed in your video, no gun in the holster)
dragonwraith1 1 year ago
@dragonwraith1
Though I expressed it poorly, I mean cut the locking mechanism off. Some jams would be bad enough that you could not pry through it. Even if I am wrong, a holster failure that requires tools to fix is unacceptable.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza I listed All those places that do allow serpa so that none of us Fools would have to foul up using google. oh and as a side note, I just found out that Sig Arms has a very similar release system on their own line of holsters. To all the other Fools out there...I wonder if Google is over our heads and maybe we should switch to Bing or something?????
dragonwraith1 1 year ago
@dragonwraith1
Those Sig holsters are the same as the tac tech garbage Israeli ones. Also a defective design.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza
Actually they appear to be "itac" holsters. Complete garbage. I called them TAC TECH above but the company is "itac". Sig has a history of sticking their brand on shit 3rd party products- like when they put they name on a 25 dollar chinese arimpoint micro clone and marked it up to 200.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@dragonwraith1
I have retracted "most". But I know tactical response, suarez, and others ban them. Alas, I am sick of Googling everything for every lazy blackhawk user.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
9 time national IPSC champ Todd Jarrett has been known to wear a Serpa for his Para 1911...
therealjarett 1 year ago
Here is my reply about the perceived flaw.
[ /watch?v=hS4TfxiFp1E ]
IlovemyGlock21 1 year ago
Comment removed
ihaveairlockers 1 year ago
@ihaveairlockers
1. "Mine works" isn't an argument. Mine jammed. Which is more significant?
2. I never said blackhawk hasn't made very many.
3. I never said few people use them.
4. I shoot USPSA. Want to make more shit up about how experienced I am? I am unable to halt your idiocy.
5. Dirt and crap ALSO falls behind the release.
Rather than you continuing to make shit up- Do you think any Level 2 CQC has EVER jammed? To you think their design makes them more prone to it?
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
Comment removed
ihaveairlockers 1 year ago
@ihaveairlockers
lol. Substantiate your arguments bro. You just dropped in with sweeping generalizations that didn't even support your position. Has any holster failed in that manner? Are they prone to it? Why won't you address the central issue rather than droning on about how popular the holsters are?
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
Comment removed
ihaveairlockers 1 year ago
@ihaveairlockers
Responses:
1. I agree on value. It is cheap and pretty good quality per dollar.
2. You've heard of people. Me. If you have not heard of others it is because you are not looking.
3. Sometimes security trumps reliability. There is also the *gasp* chance they are not aware of the design flaw.
4.Please do report it. We all know that it cannot have happened unless you witness it or an account of it fails to fall into your outstretched hands.
There are videos of it on youtube
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
Comment removed
ihaveairlockers 1 year ago
@ihaveairlockers
Your taunting is stupid and makes you look like an ass who didnt read before posting. I have named instructors in this thread. However, I am not going to google everything for you. Farnum and suarez come to mind, so now you can STFU with your phony burden of proof. But try googling "serpa banned" and use your incredibly good brain to think about it for a second.
I am not dreaming anything. It happened to me and I simply demonstrated the mechanism by which it happened.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@ihaveairlockers - I actually made a video response to this issue.
/watch?v=hS4TfxiFp1E
IlovemyGlock21 1 year ago
@IlovemyGlock21
Hi again
I checked out your great video and left a positive comment there :o)
The guy who made this video argues alot and can't tell me the date, the time, the place and how his Serpa jambed. I reckon he is just dreaming up something that is not there. No one I know has ever had a problem, I've never had a problem and Blackhawk seem to sell well. But this guy doesn't like that and takes it all personally, which he should, because he made the damn video.
Serpa works mate !!
ihaveairlockers 1 year ago
Please reference one documented incident where this has happened in REAL LIFE and not purposely on a work bench and I will concede your argument as valid. You can give me any holster with a retention mechanism and I can find some off the wall way to fuck it up.
IlovemyGlock21 1 year ago
@IlovemyGlock21
If you must insist that I am a liar and it did not happen to me, all you have to do is google "blackhawk serpa jam" to find real life incidents that happened at professional schools. There a couple of videos that demonstrate it "in real life". The only people who think this doesn't happen have not looked into it or have stuck their head in the sand.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza - Sir, I'm not saying you're purposely being dishonest and I'm sure you carry regularly or are in LE. I did Google "blackhawk serpa jam" and it returned exactly four pages and every page just showed a comment from you, I gotta say it was kinda funny. My point isn't that your assertion isn't possible but rather improbable. So improbable in fact that the only evidence of it occurring on the internet is in your videos.
IlovemyGlock21 1 year ago
@IlovemyGlock21
Mine is NOT the only documented story. There are others. Your inability to use search tools is not my fault. Youtube comments do not apparently allow linking. However, I will PM you a couple. The google search order has changed, moving my video up. Read a little farther and it is all there. It is NOT improbable that it happens. It is just unlikely for an individual user. The drastic nature of the failure justifies the concern for a small percentage of failure.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza - No, I just put your query inside quotation marks like you had it when I came up with the result. I watched the video you linked to, actually before watching yours, and have to say that I would have been much more convinced if they had shown what was actually causing the blockage. As it was, it could have been something else besides a rock. The video only shows that someone who doesn't like the holster from the outset attempt to beat the hell out of something wasn't his.
IlovemyGlock21 1 year ago
@IlovemyGlock21
It is not my fault you didn't read far enough in that search. Several documented cases still appear. Nobody ever said that video was a rock- it simply demonstrates that the holster jammed in the field. It dosen't matter that some of the people hate the holster- it happened. Put on your thinking cap and ask why people hate the holster- IT JAMS. I know it personally, so don't let a guy's attitude lead you to make stupid decisions.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza - I'm not disputing that it jammed and when I put on my thinking cap it tells me to be wary of people who have a prejudice against a product the are reviewing. I would have really like to have seen what caused the jam to exclude the possibility of it being user error. Instead the guy just makes a big show of it while treating the other guys property like shit. My thinking cap tells me that guy is a dick and to take is opinion with a grain of salt.
IlovemyGlock21 1 year ago
@IlovemyGlock21
I would also like to point out that you said my claim was the ONLY one on the internet AFTER you watched the DSC video. That's funny because it was completely untrue and you knew it.
TheodoreBeza 1 year ago
@TheodoreBeza - I'll admit when I'm incorrect. I shouldn't have made such a sweeping statement that you were the only making the claim. So, I concede the point. When I searched I placed your query inside quotation marks which is why it only showed posts from you.
Now, I still stand behind my other statement that if the problem you describe was systemic it would lead to the holster being recalled and it's use banned by major departments. As this has not happened I don't worry much about it.
IlovemyGlock21 1 year ago
@IlovemyGlock21 - There are whole police and sheriff's department that issue the LVL 3 holster for duty carry and if there were some sort of design flaw then the word would get out REALLY QUICK and departments would start scrapping them and banning their use by officers. The fact is that with the way it works I get a fast draw and my grip is correctly aligned when it comes out of the holster.
BTW, I don't think your being dishonest but just exaggerating the improbable.
IlovemyGlock21 1 year ago
What if you were to somehow cover the gap, at least from the outside, with something like electrical tape?
Shalteck