I'm no expert, but it seems to me that 'soft' martial arts like judo, wing chun, and tai chi simply have steeper learning curves for it's practitioners. Unless you have a stronger grip on the art, you're going to be defeated easily by someone who practices 'hard' (muay thai, boxing, jui jitsu, greco-roman wrestling) styles, which have simpler fundamentals. This isn't to say that it's inferior or superior; just an observation from someone who loves to fight.
Im currently taking a class on tai chi in my college. All I can say is that its really hard and it takes a lot of effort and practice. There is a lot of balance, concentration and the understanding of your center. I give these guys props XD
the only one thing which i cann tell "fighting", was my condition to sit through the whole video. im sry for you "tai chi" men out there, but if u want to fight, learn a martial art and if u want to to chill, relax or something head up for tai chi.
tai chi evolved from martial arts to something else but MARTIAL ARTS!
I know full well that Taiji is and has become part of my life, it is who I am, it is the main focal point in my life and in everything I do, speak,act and think. I dream of Taiji, I feel it all around me daily.It has helped me deal with heart burn,Acid Reflux,Pinched Nerves, through stress in my life. Now my 3 year old daughter is learning and I have 4 people learning. Taiji is a blessing and a daily learning experience, for me this Taiji spiritual.
i think the thing is back in the day people would train kung fu all day everday thats why they could be so proficient in what they did. i think kung fu needs that time to be effective.
the first white dude with leg wraps had some nice sweeps. It looks like Bagua. The black dude with white pants was very fluid. I'd like to see an exciting match between that "calm" style against an aggressive kickboxer. It'd probably be an exciting match
Fights don't use Tai Chi concepts at all, it is completely stupid. Students shouldn't "fight with Tai Chi" with a so poor level, without even understanding what is Tai Chi.
Seeing potentially practical aspects of tai chi is interesting, however the other people at this tournament were embarrassing themselves. Not a very good demonstration of anything, besides how not to train.
No this is serious bro,even it may be slow or sluggish but the moves they use are REAL techniques from tai chi and its applications. As u can see tai chi mostly uses moves like take downs and throws,simliar to aikido,after all MA developed form one another. GOGO TAI CHI !
@wubs23 do some research b4 you decide to leave a comment cause to those who know, you just look stupid, and those who don't know are being mislead by your comment.
They actually know what they're doing, but I'm not sure you actually know what you're talking about.
@MartialArchiveTv considering this is actually pretty legit alot of tai chi doesnt even practice open sparring but the striking and takedown technique is still pretty good
@MartialArchiveTv on the other hand, this kind of fighting is more complete than the karate rules, it seems it has some sort of sanda rules or something like that.
You dont see that 1:37 kind of takedown everywhere.
To be a soft martial art we got to give it credit.
@cikicrocus You do realise that all of these tai chi practitioners have never tried to apply their techniques to fighting, and this is their first time and they did very good
@cikicrocus Yeah, because all it takes to be a professional armchair fighter is to sit on your ass watching plenty of UFC all day long, and then go trolling...for goodness sake!
kung fu and tai chi are real but they are so hard to master that for a modern man they are nearly impossible to learn for real life use.. at least thats what I think..I have read an interview 20 years ago with a tai chi master who was saying that a tai chi trainee can be a master when he comes approx to age of 60.
@cikicrocus There are aspects of Tai Chi that really require the user to understand movement in a non-forceful way that for many people is easier to realize when the body is past the height of physical power. One advanced student of kung-fu once said, half-jokingly, that it's when the body gets tired of using force that one can finally understand some of the movements in these systems.
@cikicrocus well one of the main reasons why of people would say it wouldnt work is because alot of tai chi fighters dont include alot of physical contact training like sparring no style should go without it in my oppinion there was once a big match a long time ago between muay thai and tai chi fighters the MT fighters were very pro trained in sparring alot like the level of ufc mabe more while the tai chi didnt even use sparring just forms and lost badly but its not tai chi as a style's fault
From what little I know, I have gathered that all martial arts originate from one single source, known to some as the Dao. Since understanding the Dao means cultivating ones self, it seems logical that that is where you start. Physical excercise strengthens the body. But ultimately, it is the mind we must train. Acoording to the masters, the rest should follow naturally.
@cikicrocus Even if your haven't mastered tai chi you can use what you know even if its a little bit and combine it with what you do know and it will be useful in a real fight, you can always use what you know of any fighting style in a fight.
@cikicrocus << this "a tai chi trainee can be a master when he comes approx to age of 60" stereotype is just shit...I'm 23yo and I'm not claiming to be a master but I already used tai chi in real fights many times...the more you train, the more you'll get strong...no secret...but it's true that I train 7hours a day...
btw, I think the YangJiaMiChuan is the ultimate style of TaiChi : it's simpler, and way more effective for martial and energetic progress...it's no wonder it's a secret style...
@cikicrocus how long do you think it takes to 'master' anything? to save you time the studies say that its 10,000+ hours practice... thats 3 hours practice per day over ten years, how many things do you think you can effectively
@cikicrocus learning them for "real life use" (if that means "street fighting" ) is also pointless. These Martial arts are supposed to enhance a human being as a whole and that means that you will avoid fighting unless you re under a phisical threat. And also, martial arts are not effective against a gun. Then, as for self defense, I think that learning how to use a gun would be more useful. I say this being myself a tai chi chuan trainee and its just my opinion of course. Good bye
@cikicrocus Yeah, I can see why it would be hard to master, because whats makes a good fighter, is how he applies the techniques that he learned, and hopefully mastered. Some people just practice katas (forms) and believe they are good just by either flashy or strong movement. But on how you apply it with your natural movements, the person himself makes that art effective by his own understanding and his own use.
Beautiful takedown at 1:35. I don't much personal experience with Tai Chi but I always had a hunch a lot of its principles could be applied to MMA. I'm going to have to look more into this.
@freemason72 Thats funny. He certainly seems to know about rooting and using his mind in Tai Chi. Yes he may have mixed but he seemed very in tune with his surroundings when he was sparring. He seems good. Tai Chi is mosly defensive anyways so its not the greatest for sparring unless your locking breaking or throwing.
It looks like both these "tai chi" fighters have done other martial arts. They use a lot of stuff not usually taught in tai chi - distancing, jamming of kicks, takedowns etc that you only learn in sparring. I've never seen a tai chi class that taught any of those things...
@neilmak Martial Arts origins from copying other styles. you should keep that in mind.
a shining example of this is command sambo, which is a mix of the strongest techniques of different close combat styles. saying that if tai chi have a kick taekwondo also have, means nothing.
If you actually think one style is the better your making the mistake of losing respect for martial arts all together. I personally wouldn't limit myself to just one, I plan on learning a couple and mixing the styles.
I don't know why everyone comes on here arguing about which martial arts style is better. Martial arts is like speaking a language you shouldn't limit yourself to just one. If you don't respect something it will kick you in the ass.
@Clown7916 If I am not mistaken ... Taijiquan originated from the techniques that kept the Chen Taiji founder alive on the battle field for something like 40 yrs. 40 yrs on the battlefield ... :)) Any combination of techniques that keeps you alive for 40 yrs has to have something to it ... just saying. ;))
Actually the argument about MMA vs Traditional Martial Arts is one of the hot topics on the web, and sadly there are tons who don't know about how competent is karate alone... I do a mixed style of karate and jiujitsu and I have to say that a great karate fighter can manage without ground or throw techniques, but.. They have to be experienced against em and much more.. There isn't a best martial arts and mixed martial arts isn't the best either.. How good the fighters are is what matters, -.-
haha this is 1988, and this guy is doing perfectly timed takedowns, strikes and kicks, even a so-called "ground and pound", albeit watered down...its obvious that taiji can be used for fighting by a skilled practitioner, which this person Sam Masich obviously is. quite intense, if you remember, again, that this is 1988. i imagine he has gotten much better since.
The first fighter interviewed is a gifted practitioner and fighter who has both rootedness and flow. If you watch the lady, who is quite graceful, you will notice she tends to look at her hands which is a mistake. The black gentleman is a good defender but i did not see him do much good striking. This is a great video thank you for posting it.
tai chia kung fu,karate , TKD all are good and all will look the same in a fight period and no matter what,after all we just hv 2 limbs each,we can just move a certain way.
@LuqmanNaq No neck techniques, no spine techniques, no back of the head techniques. There are a number of styles that don't worked in a regulated UFC match. UFC is not the end all of self-defense, it' s a sport. Just like you wouldn't expect a basketball champ to do great in football, many styles don't work in the UFC. Whether Tai Chi would defeat MMA in a real fight is up to the combatants.
@MartialArchiveTv You are aware that in the early days of the UFC and Vale Tudo all those things were allowed yet the traditionalists never prevailed? It was the guys who had a style suprising similar to the fighters of today who were the consistent victors? If you don't beleive me watch some early Vale Tudo.
@LuqmanNaq Believe us, we are not making excuses. The UFC went to show that a lot of styles suffer from too much "civillization". But that said the early UFC was controlled in ways that negate any claims that the stylists that participated in any way represented the best of their art. UFC is jiu-jitsu extended. To expect someone to come in and really gouge eyes, rip nostrils, break fingers is asking a lot. If the UFC let that happen it wouldn't be here now.
@MartialArchiveTv I've personally done those in fights, they're not the fight stoppers they're made out to be, they help you get to something better. Traditionalist never stepped up, and so now can hide behing the 'our art is too deadly for sport' argument. The sport of MMA is fighting in 3 ranges; stand up, clinch and ground. If you think it is only about jiu jitsu shows you've never watch Anderson Silva, Shogun Rua, or Lyoto Machida fight.
@LuqmanNaq We have watched and appreciated all the fighters you mention. Many martial arts train to avoid the ground because it's highly unsafe except in tournaments. A blinded opponent is not a fight stopper? What sort of fight are you talking about? Since this is becoming a religious argument instead of a scientific one it will stop here.
@MartialArchiveTv Actually, anderson silva, lyoto machida, shogun, and cingano all have blackbelts in jiu-jitsu, but they win most of their fights by striking. In fact, this is true for most of the elite fighters! I think that brazillian jiu-jitsu is a bit overrated. I also think t'ai chi has a lot to offer to the mma world as well. Thus far, no one has really seen t'ai chi in action against other fighting systems. I know it has potential, but it is a shame no one is exploiting its qualities.
@MartialArchiveTv they were about to ban ufc from tv back then unless they added stricter rules turnin it into more of a sport. and that's only good because unnecessary violence should not be promoted or admired on tv. it should be more of a sport, just like boxing but little broader
in the internal matial arts, I am told that any thought causes a blockage of energy flow. The "old Yang style" , Yang lu-Chan taiji is very effective for self defence, with no pushing or puling anywhere. We use Fajing, and the movements number around 360 if youre doing one per breath
I'll have to admit, I was hoping to see more specific tai chi techniques in the tournament as opposed to general principles used with a mix of other styles.
Pretty cool except whenever they get into close quarters/grapple situation, they seem to turn their back to their enemy quite a bit. If this was a no rules fight instead of a tournament that would be a really bad idea......
not true as it easy to lead someone into thinking you have an open back that way...sets them up for a spinning back fist if they so think to really jump at a known weak point like a rash kid...if you doubt look up best knock out of mma 2010... best spinning back hand i've seen all year
I too am interested in seeing these videos out there, if only to shut up the MMA folks who keeps blasting tai chi. The fact is, tho, that those proficient enough in the combat applications of the internal arts are not particularly interested in demonstrating their effectiveness just to prove it. The mere thought would prolly be rather humorous to them. You really wanna see how well it works? Go to a school with a truly masterful teacher and just attack him/her. Then you'll see for yourself.
It looked like the second fellow, the black fellow, was using explosive, quick movements - but he was doing VERY LITTLE and using the moment of his enemy.
the tai chi "fight" was not in tai chi, tai chi in combat aplication is more like aikido, wich evolved with ueshiba from tai chi chuan, the "battle" is in harmony not direct like muay thai,etc
I didn t see tai chi in that fight , tai chi chuan has a lot chin na aplications who do not need direct or any other hits...
I read that, in the beginner, someone who starts tai chi, should start with the slow stuff, and as it progresses, it can be formed into a fighting style, But only if it's trained up beforehand :)
Some of the best fighters we have seen over the years are not good at forms at all. The same goes in reverse. It's the very rare martial artist who masters both form and fighting, but we have seen a few.
My tai chi master is in his 60's and grapples every week at the gym with kids 40 years younger and beats them. Tai Chi Chuan is built on solid principles that work.
Yes, the very first martial art Bruce Lee learnt from his father as a young child was, not wing chun (before that), nor JKD (before that) but wait for it......
Wu style Tai Chi.
To all the doubters who just want a quick-fix-hollywood-wham-bam-muscle fight tournament. If Bruce Lee didnt do Tai Chi first he would never have become the man he was no doubt. Which is probably why he said the above statement. Ive started Tai Chi due to illness, amazing art
That is very true, I've sampled a handful of very different styles of ma and nothing has come close to the level that TCC offers. I study yang style and luckily my teacher (who's pushing 65) is very open about the physical capabilities. It is an incredibly diverse MA with, at the master level, an answer to every problem posed in fights. I just hate the fact of how long it takes, 3 years and I'm still a pure novice.
I've trained MMA and other exernal but my teacher owns me everytime!
@lucidmist I know this is pretty late. but if you look at others who do tai chi for exercise, just record it and speed it up. Apply a body to the movements in the spaces of hands. They used to train in tai chi because someone would arrest the chinese (like americans) during wars early on in history. It is just slow movements of how to kill a man, just not to the naked eye.
@lucidmist i noticed that during the the spar, all of the fights were not "t'ai chi" ish at all. in fact, they were pretty straight-forward instead of being all graceful with their strikes the same way an mma fighter would fight. obviously, mma techniques encompassing the most efficient ways of striking will benefit fighters a lot more. sure t'ai chi has it, but is it useful? this video is not a good rebuttal to mma. i know tai chi also has wrestling called ching na, which is very interesting.
@lucidmist you are so right, people just dont know it. I think the same applys for a lot of systems its just a lot of the techniques are lost or misunderstood. Y learn 6 styles when u can get it all from 1. Also, a martial art should take a lifetime to master so i dont see how any1 can truly master 6, there just isnt the time.
Tai Chi Chuan uses push hands as the start of sparring. Several tai chi schools we had the chance to meet had real sparring as a part of the program. A few in New York City were (and still are) Leung Shum's Wu Style Tai Chi Chuan, Guang Yi Ren's Chen Style classes and William C.C. Chen's Yang Style. C.C. Chen and his adult children have a real reputation for fight training. Also C.K. Chu's Yang Style.
this isnt how u apply it but their sparring is pushing hands. it one of the most practical martail arts i nteh world the russians spetznas use a style similar to it in knife fighting
some good parts i guess a lot of mind force and trying to remain balanced is preety difficult. i can see the aura around kristoff clark, but true an experience boxer also has aura (focus calm timing experience)
im looking at the sparing and im looking at the form work and it is not the same . the majority of yang style does not punch and does not kick. I like the sparing but it is not yang style .
they do need to read some old text i guess....the point is , if u guys like it, i really hope u know a bit more from the old texts......it will make one's easy and faster to learn ......peace
Without trying to be too harsh, the fighters displayed here do not look like they would hold up against the majority of practitioners of 'hard' martial arts or boxing with similar experience.
While that is probably true of players in in this particular video, you should understand that Taiji is a lifetime martial art unlike the hard ones. Taiji is designed for the longhaul for the whole person. By the mid-part of a dedicated taiji career one would be rather unstoppable as compared to most practitioners of the hard arts who are in their own prime, and that is, I think, the entire reason why Taiji persists even in this day of flashy mcdojo ma environments. Taiji is the living Dao.
someone who has studied tai chi for 5 years is still a beginner. someone who has studied a 'hard' art for 5 years is probably near their prime. a 70-yr old who has studied tai chi for 30-40 years would (if so inclined, and they prolly wouldn't be) easily defeat someone who was 25 and studied a 'hard' art for 10-20 years.
That's a bold statement. We wouldn't be inclined to bet on such a match nor want to see a 70 year old take a hard blow. Take ten or fifteen years off of the elder and you might have something there.
that might not be the case age is not something that should be looked upon to determine strength for if someone trains there spirit, body and mind throughout there lifetime they tend to be strong very strong much stronger than most 20 year olds
I'd like to try that, fight a 25 year old hard style practitioner when I get about 41 years older (Age 70). I doubt you guys will remember this by then. I'm currently a beginning tai chi student. Just to clarify, I am not claiming I will win for certain but I feel a 70 year old tai chi practitioner might defeat a younger opponent and want it personally verified. I however disagree with the "5 years is a beginner" statement but I can't disprove it until I've studied the art for 5 years.
A blanket statement that I think'll you'll reconsider in a decade or so. One of the best street fighters we ever knew was essentially a 65 year old street punk! He would mop up the neighborhood with stupid 20 year olds who got him mad. No formal training, just a pit bull mindset.
I guess it really all depends. However, once people beginhitting the 70+ mark, it's highly unlikely they'll be able to take any strong blow or move as quickly as someone younger.
And I agree about the psychological state of mind,. I know plenty of people who remain badasses until the day they die. And punks or bullies, as a whole, are better than the vast majority of martial artists at what they do.
@Aheyne I must correct you. I know an old man (over 60 years old) who could whipe the floors with 2 30-year-old LaoShi (instructors) in Wudang Kung Fu.
@rockleex We don't entirely agree but the demented psychology of a punk or bully reduces their empathy for fellow humans which will give them a fighting advantage over many rational fighters. It doesn't mean they'll win always or even half the time. The best rational fighters are able to detach themselves from the psychological attack of their opponent and neutralize them in whatever way works best.
@Aheyne It is the beast inside each of us that overcomes the other in conflict until only one remains. N oage, no skill, no youth, victory goes to the greater beast.
@MartialArchiveTv I tend to think in think the "beast" that is greater, has the drive, has the force, has the mind, has the advantage and superiority over the other. Without superiority I would be hard pressed to argue with why I used the word greater.
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that 'soft' martial arts like judo, wing chun, and tai chi simply have steeper learning curves for it's practitioners. Unless you have a stronger grip on the art, you're going to be defeated easily by someone who practices 'hard' (muay thai, boxing, jui jitsu, greco-roman wrestling) styles, which have simpler fundamentals. This isn't to say that it's inferior or superior; just an observation from someone who loves to fight.
Deathrune456 1 month ago
tai chi is part of Internal martial arts (Kung Fu) just as, JKD, Tung Bi, Aqito, and wing chun are ...to name a few.
aros207 2 months ago
Tai chi people say they can speed up. I ve never seen a sprinter train by jogging
BoarsofWar 2 months ago
@BoarsofWar Well then you best not quit your day job, rather than try to understand our ways.
MusicisMYlife210 2 months ago
these guys are incredibly slow even for amateurs.
elliottsmith10 2 months ago
Yay! Christophe, my teacher!
JamieAlonge 2 months ago
Im currently taking a class on tai chi in my college. All I can say is that its really hard and it takes a lot of effort and practice. There is a lot of balance, concentration and the understanding of your center. I give these guys props XD
They're my heroes T-T...XD
DivineHunter001 2 months ago
MARAVILLOSO , WONDERFULL !!!
elxtioh 3 months ago
Tai Chi seems to be more effective as a defensive art.
TheDano1947 4 months ago
the only one thing which i cann tell "fighting", was my condition to sit through the whole video. im sry for you "tai chi" men out there, but if u want to fight, learn a martial art and if u want to to chill, relax or something head up for tai chi.
tai chi evolved from martial arts to something else but MARTIAL ARTS!
Yavi1st 4 months ago
Good grabs but terrible striker.
Atlas7689 4 months ago
@Atlas7689 Then upload a video of your striking but you are probably some movie fan.
Arealmartialartist1 4 months ago in playlist kung fu
@Lerdivitz NO, then they fight in groups and use knifes and other weapons, mma is a sport!!!!
MrAikendoMan 5 months ago
BJJ+Muay Thai win!
wolfadr3 5 months ago
cool martial art
diesechspfade 5 months ago
there is no better combatsport than pure boxing. learn to use your hands and strike first.
shyptari 5 months ago
1:36 looks like taekwondo to me :S
madzane94 7 months ago
I know full well that Taiji is and has become part of my life, it is who I am, it is the main focal point in my life and in everything I do, speak,act and think. I dream of Taiji, I feel it all around me daily.It has helped me deal with heart burn,Acid Reflux,Pinched Nerves, through stress in my life. Now my 3 year old daughter is learning and I have 4 people learning. Taiji is a blessing and a daily learning experience, for me this Taiji spiritual.
hullandy0923 7 months ago
your body has to be super flexible for this
jin7210 8 months ago
@jin7210 If you mean your body has to be super flexible for Taichi, then no, it doesnt, Tai Chi can be for everyone, fighting using it, i suppose so.
clitmint 6 months ago
I thought the black guy who was fighting was pretty good , he never lost form or rushed in
chunchoe 9 months ago
Ugh, painful to watch...
hardfugoo1 9 months ago
wow horrible... disgrace
AbcEasyAsWunTwoThree 9 months ago
I can tell all are fake tai chi.
freefight9999 9 months ago
i think the thing is back in the day people would train kung fu all day everday thats why they could be so proficient in what they did. i think kung fu needs that time to be effective.
d15z1sux 10 months ago
takedown at 1:37 is badass.
AlexRomanov1 10 months ago 7
the first white dude with leg wraps had some nice sweeps. It looks like Bagua. The black dude with white pants was very fluid. I'd like to see an exciting match between that "calm" style against an aggressive kickboxer. It'd probably be an exciting match
AznSwordGod 10 months ago
Fights don't use Tai Chi concepts at all, it is completely stupid. Students shouldn't "fight with Tai Chi" with a so poor level, without even understanding what is Tai Chi.
kodokudeusotsuki 11 months ago
Seeing potentially practical aspects of tai chi is interesting, however the other people at this tournament were embarrassing themselves. Not a very good demonstration of anything, besides how not to train.
MeanEyedCats 1 year ago
they should have studied wing chun first before proceeding tai chi....
volikoto 1 year ago
wow nice and good excelent
looveedznee 1 year ago
everybody was tai chi fighting...
clickiti7 1 year ago
A problem with alot of martial arts is you do forms and for a long time you don't get shown the application.
DeanPMA 1 year ago
Nice. You can see at 1:58 that the tai chi guy didn't waste any movements
Gytu 1 year ago
No this is serious bro,even it may be slow or sluggish but the moves they use are REAL techniques from tai chi and its applications. As u can see tai chi mostly uses moves like take downs and throws,simliar to aikido,after all MA developed form one another. GOGO TAI CHI !
MechPhantom 1 year ago
@MechPhantom No disrespect but the moves seem awkward!! Have them fight a real combat and they wouldn't even stand a chance.
epeeista07 1 year ago
lol. tai chi is very good for your health, but please dont think its a serious martial art.
as you can see by those guys, they have no clue what they are doing.
wubs23 1 year ago
@wubs23 do some research b4 you decide to leave a comment cause to those who know, you just look stupid, and those who don't know are being mislead by your comment.
They actually know what they're doing, but I'm not sure you actually know what you're talking about.
gideony16 1 year ago
Tai Chi is also great for health.
jazzizs1 1 year ago
after watching plenty of k-1 , ufc, pride etc we can say the guys in this video are not on a pro level at all..
cikicrocus 1 year ago
@cikicrocus And who said that they were? This was an amateur tournament.
MartialArchiveTv 1 year ago 51
@MartialArchiveTv considering this is actually pretty legit alot of tai chi doesnt even practice open sparring but the striking and takedown technique is still pretty good
joelakastud123 1 year ago
@MartialArchiveTv on the other hand, this kind of fighting is more complete than the karate rules, it seems it has some sort of sanda rules or something like that.
You dont see that 1:37 kind of takedown everywhere.
To be a soft martial art we got to give it credit.
kevinzk71 8 months ago
@cikicrocus martial arts, and fitness in general, has gone up in caliber since 1988. just sayin.
frozenwalkway 1 year ago
@cikicrocus
Yeah, competing with yourself is so far ABOVE silly UFC, PRIDE...See the champs of those UFC, PRIDE, etc.
lately? Arthritic, brain concussions, out of shape and fat. Tai Chi wins hands down.
theangelrules007 11 months ago
@cikicrocus if you still think ufc fighters are the toughest on the planet you obviously know very little about fighting.
EbonCrusaderOM82 10 months ago
@cikicrocus You do realise that all of these tai chi practitioners have never tried to apply their techniques to fighting, and this is their first time and they did very good
ChiStriker 9 months ago
@cikicrocus Not quite !
butaicho 8 months ago
@cikicrocus they could still kick my ass...
gdmansfield9211 7 months ago
@cikicrocus Yeah, because all it takes to be a professional armchair fighter is to sit on your ass watching plenty of UFC all day long, and then go trolling...for goodness sake!
bovinicide 6 months ago
kung fu and tai chi are real but they are so hard to master that for a modern man they are nearly impossible to learn for real life use.. at least thats what I think..I have read an interview 20 years ago with a tai chi master who was saying that a tai chi trainee can be a master when he comes approx to age of 60.
cikicrocus 1 year ago 6
@cikicrocus There are aspects of Tai Chi that really require the user to understand movement in a non-forceful way that for many people is easier to realize when the body is past the height of physical power. One advanced student of kung-fu once said, half-jokingly, that it's when the body gets tired of using force that one can finally understand some of the movements in these systems.
MartialArchiveTv 1 year ago 14
@cikicrocus well one of the main reasons why of people would say it wouldnt work is because alot of tai chi fighters dont include alot of physical contact training like sparring no style should go without it in my oppinion there was once a big match a long time ago between muay thai and tai chi fighters the MT fighters were very pro trained in sparring alot like the level of ufc mabe more while the tai chi didnt even use sparring just forms and lost badly but its not tai chi as a style's fault
joelakastud123 1 year ago
From what little I know, I have gathered that all martial arts originate from one single source, known to some as the Dao. Since understanding the Dao means cultivating ones self, it seems logical that that is where you start. Physical excercise strengthens the body. But ultimately, it is the mind we must train. Acoording to the masters, the rest should follow naturally.
colaFRank 11 months ago
@cikicrocus Even if your haven't mastered tai chi you can use what you know even if its a little bit and combine it with what you do know and it will be useful in a real fight, you can always use what you know of any fighting style in a fight.
ImPooping101 8 months ago
@cikicrocus << this "a tai chi trainee can be a master when he comes approx to age of 60" stereotype is just shit...I'm 23yo and I'm not claiming to be a master but I already used tai chi in real fights many times...the more you train, the more you'll get strong...no secret...but it's true that I train 7hours a day...
btw, I think the YangJiaMiChuan is the ultimate style of TaiChi : it's simpler, and way more effective for martial and energetic progress...it's no wonder it's a secret style...
Didi972 7 months ago
@cikicrocus how long do you think it takes to 'master' anything? to save you time the studies say that its 10,000+ hours practice... thats 3 hours practice per day over ten years, how many things do you think you can effectively
master in one lifetime :)
mikehuntIII 6 months ago
@cikicrocus learning them for "real life use" (if that means "street fighting" ) is also pointless. These Martial arts are supposed to enhance a human being as a whole and that means that you will avoid fighting unless you re under a phisical threat. And also, martial arts are not effective against a gun. Then, as for self defense, I think that learning how to use a gun would be more useful. I say this being myself a tai chi chuan trainee and its just my opinion of course. Good bye
skyismelting 6 months ago
@cikicrocus Yeah, I can see why it would be hard to master, because whats makes a good fighter, is how he applies the techniques that he learned, and hopefully mastered. Some people just practice katas (forms) and believe they are good just by either flashy or strong movement. But on how you apply it with your natural movements, the person himself makes that art effective by his own understanding and his own use.
Jericho11894 2 months ago
Beautiful takedown at 1:35. I don't much personal experience with Tai Chi but I always had a hunch a lot of its principles could be applied to MMA. I'm going to have to look more into this.
DemonKingMMA 1 year ago
In Tai Chi Quan's fighting system is it point sparring or do they follow karate's rules?
mkfreak12345 1 year ago
The lot of those who commented that this isn't Taiji don't know how to read a book beyond it's cover..
geassed45 1 year ago
@freemason72 Thats funny. He certainly seems to know about rooting and using his mind in Tai Chi. Yes he may have mixed but he seemed very in tune with his surroundings when he was sparring. He seems good. Tai Chi is mosly defensive anyways so its not the greatest for sparring unless your locking breaking or throwing.
dekal1 1 year ago
funny.... what is this??? Insult to tai chi,,,,,
akashs27 1 year ago
@akashs27 Post something of yourself not "insulting" tai chi then.
MartialArchiveTv 1 year ago 26
wow.... that one black guy actually tried to do a CARTWHEEL KICK?
NTNGUYEN 1 year ago
It looks like both these "tai chi" fighters have done other martial arts. They use a lot of stuff not usually taught in tai chi - distancing, jamming of kicks, takedowns etc that you only learn in sparring. I've never seen a tai chi class that taught any of those things...
neilmak 1 year ago
@neilmak Martial Arts origins from copying other styles. you should keep that in mind.
a shining example of this is command sambo, which is a mix of the strongest techniques of different close combat styles. saying that if tai chi have a kick taekwondo also have, means nothing.
pts99 1 year ago
This has nothing to do with Tai Chi
GilleanFreire 1 year ago
This is nothing to do with Tai Chi
GilleanFreire 1 year ago
Their good at form but I don't think they can really spar....
deonvan 1 year ago
If you actually think one style is the better your making the mistake of losing respect for martial arts all together. I personally wouldn't limit myself to just one, I plan on learning a couple and mixing the styles.
parsleysprigs 1 year ago
I don't know why everyone comes on here arguing about which martial arts style is better. Martial arts is like speaking a language you shouldn't limit yourself to just one. If you don't respect something it will kick you in the ass.
parsleysprigs 1 year ago 2
I hope this prospers. To my (limited) knowledge, Tai Chi was meant to be for combat. It should be more than just "exercise" to keep away infirmity.
Clown7916 1 year ago
@Clown7916 If I am not mistaken ... Taijiquan originated from the techniques that kept the Chen Taiji founder alive on the battle field for something like 40 yrs. 40 yrs on the battlefield ... :)) Any combination of techniques that keeps you alive for 40 yrs has to have something to it ... just saying. ;))
ksipa 1 year ago
Actually the argument about MMA vs Traditional Martial Arts is one of the hot topics on the web, and sadly there are tons who don't know about how competent is karate alone... I do a mixed style of karate and jiujitsu and I have to say that a great karate fighter can manage without ground or throw techniques, but.. They have to be experienced against em and much more.. There isn't a best martial arts and mixed martial arts isn't the best either.. How good the fighters are is what matters, -.-
geenius3ab 1 year ago
@ryanWeap So Tai Chi is good for stand up and ground fighting?
hibyeeee2 1 year ago
haha this is 1988, and this guy is doing perfectly timed takedowns, strikes and kicks, even a so-called "ground and pound", albeit watered down...its obvious that taiji can be used for fighting by a skilled practitioner, which this person Sam Masich obviously is. quite intense, if you remember, again, that this is 1988. i imagine he has gotten much better since.
thegnomeidentity 1 year ago
The first fighter interviewed is a gifted practitioner and fighter who has both rootedness and flow. If you watch the lady, who is quite graceful, you will notice she tends to look at her hands which is a mistake. The black gentleman is a good defender but i did not see him do much good striking. This is a great video thank you for posting it.
lebarosky 1 year ago
i cant find real tai chi fights in youtube -_-
KillyWildlands 1 year ago
thats an awesome takedown at 1:39
aido1987 1 year ago
that body slam was wrestling....not tai chi lmao
l2q 1 year ago
@l2q um no..several martial arts have take down techniques..
itachisan1993 1 year ago
tai chia kung fu,karate , TKD all are good and all will look the same in a fight period and no matter what,after all we just hv 2 limbs each,we can just move a certain way.
MechPhantom 1 year ago
I'd love to see this style tested in something like UFC
jamiesan7A 1 year ago
@jamiesan7A Using UFC rules? Wouldn't work.
MartialArchiveTv 1 year ago
@MartialArchiveTv Why not?
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
@LuqmanNaq No neck techniques, no spine techniques, no back of the head techniques. There are a number of styles that don't worked in a regulated UFC match. UFC is not the end all of self-defense, it' s a sport. Just like you wouldn't expect a basketball champ to do great in football, many styles don't work in the UFC. Whether Tai Chi would defeat MMA in a real fight is up to the combatants.
MartialArchiveTv 1 year ago
@MartialArchiveTv You are aware that in the early days of the UFC and Vale Tudo all those things were allowed yet the traditionalists never prevailed? It was the guys who had a style suprising similar to the fighters of today who were the consistent victors? If you don't beleive me watch some early Vale Tudo.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
@LuqmanNaq Believe us, we are not making excuses. The UFC went to show that a lot of styles suffer from too much "civillization". But that said the early UFC was controlled in ways that negate any claims that the stylists that participated in any way represented the best of their art. UFC is jiu-jitsu extended. To expect someone to come in and really gouge eyes, rip nostrils, break fingers is asking a lot. If the UFC let that happen it wouldn't be here now.
MartialArchiveTv 1 year ago
@MartialArchiveTv I've personally done those in fights, they're not the fight stoppers they're made out to be, they help you get to something better. Traditionalist never stepped up, and so now can hide behing the 'our art is too deadly for sport' argument. The sport of MMA is fighting in 3 ranges; stand up, clinch and ground. If you think it is only about jiu jitsu shows you've never watch Anderson Silva, Shogun Rua, or Lyoto Machida fight.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
@LuqmanNaq We have watched and appreciated all the fighters you mention. Many martial arts train to avoid the ground because it's highly unsafe except in tournaments. A blinded opponent is not a fight stopper? What sort of fight are you talking about? Since this is becoming a religious argument instead of a scientific one it will stop here.
MartialArchiveTv 1 year ago
@MartialArchiveTv Actually, anderson silva, lyoto machida, shogun, and cingano all have blackbelts in jiu-jitsu, but they win most of their fights by striking. In fact, this is true for most of the elite fighters! I think that brazillian jiu-jitsu is a bit overrated. I also think t'ai chi has a lot to offer to the mma world as well. Thus far, no one has really seen t'ai chi in action against other fighting systems. I know it has potential, but it is a shame no one is exploiting its qualities.
Xytos 1 year ago
@Xytos I completely agree!!
ksipa 1 year ago
@MartialArchiveTv they were about to ban ufc from tv back then unless they added stricter rules turnin it into more of a sport. and that's only good because unnecessary violence should not be promoted or admired on tv. it should be more of a sport, just like boxing but little broader
DonMega187 1 year ago
@jamiesan7A that exist in youtube you have to search it..but y'll disappoint ^^
SplatterHouseStudio 1 year ago
use taiji as one of your styles in MMA, garantee ownage if you master it.
111E982a 1 year ago
quite unexpected
BEASYtheGREAT 1 year ago
im sorry but in the end it turned into a kick boxing match!!
UFCNUTTA 1 year ago
i saw that all the time... white people (though i'm white) don't have style when they fight especially americans...
sasecorzi 1 year ago
in the internal matial arts, I am told that any thought causes a blockage of energy flow. The "old Yang style" , Yang lu-Chan taiji is very effective for self defence, with no pushing or puling anywhere. We use Fajing, and the movements number around 360 if youre doing one per breath
TheAstro1972 1 year ago
Wow, look at 2:26, how confidently and calmly he dodges that kick with a slight movement of his head. Amazing!
Limbajoe 1 year ago
the fighting is not taiji ! ???
g888 1 year ago
Tai Chi at wortk. I love it.
TaiChiWellness1 1 year ago
He's the guy who got his butt kicked by Bruce Franzis!!! lol
Look in BaGua Applications .. EnergyArts channel.
You're still awesome tho Sam! =)
alex434343 1 year ago
o primeiro lutador é o pior de todos, se desespera dmais, nem parece tai chi com ele lutando
paulolokinho99 1 year ago
I'll have to admit, I was hoping to see more specific tai chi techniques in the tournament as opposed to general principles used with a mix of other styles.
Niccomawf 1 year ago
@Niccomawf If people in this country kept this style of tournament up every year, you would see that. But after 22 years this is what we have.
MartialArchiveTv 1 year ago
thank you that was very enjoyable
bodunchar 1 year ago
@Aheyne here is a quote from a student of 23 years in training
"the worst beatings i have received in my life have been from 70 year old masters"
strength does not equate to power and youth does not equate to strength
bodunchar 1 year ago
Pretty cool except whenever they get into close quarters/grapple situation, they seem to turn their back to their enemy quite a bit. If this was a no rules fight instead of a tournament that would be a really bad idea......
EDunbarS 2 years ago
not true as it easy to lead someone into thinking you have an open back that way...sets them up for a spinning back fist if they so think to really jump at a known weak point like a rash kid...if you doubt look up best knock out of mma 2010... best spinning back hand i've seen all year
rakyo 1 year ago
i understand the rooting thing.....but want to know if there are any jumping techniques
brinnonvallere 2 years ago
I too am interested in seeing these videos out there, if only to shut up the MMA folks who keeps blasting tai chi. The fact is, tho, that those proficient enough in the combat applications of the internal arts are not particularly interested in demonstrating their effectiveness just to prove it. The mere thought would prolly be rather humorous to them. You really wanna see how well it works? Go to a school with a truly masterful teacher and just attack him/her. Then you'll see for yourself.
artao5 2 years ago 2
1:36 was an amazing takedown
clayprit 2 years ago
Tai Chi is a concept, once understood, it is more how you do things and not so much what you do.
NinjatoSama 2 years ago
veeeery interesting.
It looked like the second fellow, the black fellow, was using explosive, quick movements - but he was doing VERY LITTLE and using the moment of his enemy.
interesting comments on the Akido btw.
Invisagoth 2 years ago
the tai chi "fight" was not in tai chi, tai chi in combat aplication is more like aikido, wich evolved with ueshiba from tai chi chuan, the "battle" is in harmony not direct like muay thai,etc
I didn t see tai chi in that fight , tai chi chuan has a lot chin na aplications who do not need direct or any other hits...
goodbye!
UnknownFromHeaven 2 years ago
obviously tai chi is not only what u say it is
RageMysterio 2 years ago
I read that, in the beginner, someone who starts tai chi, should start with the slow stuff, and as it progresses, it can be formed into a fighting style, But only if it's trained up beforehand :)
TheNirvanaChair 2 years ago
the canadian guy is very sloppy when he fought but he was alright
NiNjA8068 2 years ago
Some of the best fighters we have seen over the years are not good at forms at all. The same goes in reverse. It's the very rare martial artist who masters both form and fighting, but we have seen a few.
MartialArchiveTv 2 years ago
He's from vancouver canada.
maxpwr240 2 years ago
I really liked the black guy
I liked every thing he said.I study systema everything he said matches my experince in the systema way of learning
The lady was beautiful confident and knowledgable
The first guy was also cool and should continue to test himself in fighting
but the black guy was solid cool calm and relaxed when he was fighting
NewZealfighter 2 years ago 2
My tai chi master is in his 60's and grapples every week at the gym with kids 40 years younger and beats them. Tai Chi Chuan is built on solid principles that work.
Blugrazz 2 years ago 21
same with my teacher. Except he's also trained in judo, karate, taijutsu and a couple others. Still, i would never fight him.
ncphillips19 2 years ago
@Blugrazz I wonder what's his name and why we haven't seen him (or his students) in, say, Abu Dhabi or grappler's quest or the mundials...
banarelo 1 year ago
@Blugrazz
you should post a video, I believe you but its nice to see.
rivera23usmc 1 year ago
"Softness overcomes Hardness" - Bruce Lee.
Yes, the very first martial art Bruce Lee learnt from his father as a young child was, not wing chun (before that), nor JKD (before that) but wait for it......
Wu style Tai Chi.
To all the doubters who just want a quick-fix-hollywood-wham-bam-muscle fight tournament. If Bruce Lee didnt do Tai Chi first he would never have become the man he was no doubt. Which is probably why he said the above statement. Ive started Tai Chi due to illness, amazing art
Anglostani 2 years ago 8
Seriously, Taiji itself IS an entire MMA system! Locks, throws, punches, kicks, elbows, knees, you name it, Taiji has it!
The only real problem is that there aren't enough teachers around who can teach the fighting aspects of it well enough!
lucidmist 2 years ago 35
That is very true, I've sampled a handful of very different styles of ma and nothing has come close to the level that TCC offers. I study yang style and luckily my teacher (who's pushing 65) is very open about the physical capabilities. It is an incredibly diverse MA with, at the master level, an answer to every problem posed in fights. I just hate the fact of how long it takes, 3 years and I'm still a pure novice.
I've trained MMA and other exernal but my teacher owns me everytime!
DanielleMc1989 2 years ago 3
that's chen style taiji.
guang1987 2 years ago
This is true
Niccomawf 1 year ago
@lucidmist I know this is pretty late. but if you look at others who do tai chi for exercise, just record it and speed it up. Apply a body to the movements in the spaces of hands. They used to train in tai chi because someone would arrest the chinese (like americans) during wars early on in history. It is just slow movements of how to kill a man, just not to the naked eye.
ForDerrick 1 year ago
@lucidmist i noticed that during the the spar, all of the fights were not "t'ai chi" ish at all. in fact, they were pretty straight-forward instead of being all graceful with their strikes the same way an mma fighter would fight. obviously, mma techniques encompassing the most efficient ways of striking will benefit fighters a lot more. sure t'ai chi has it, but is it useful? this video is not a good rebuttal to mma. i know tai chi also has wrestling called ching na, which is very interesting.
Xytos 1 year ago
@lucidmist you are so right, people just dont know it. I think the same applys for a lot of systems its just a lot of the techniques are lost or misunderstood. Y learn 6 styles when u can get it all from 1. Also, a martial art should take a lifetime to master so i dont see how any1 can truly master 6, there just isnt the time.
stevieb8006 1 year ago
@lucidmist well then it's better to learn something what is supposed to be a martial art like jiu jitsu
Freddran 1 year ago
@Freddran are you saying tai chi is not a martial art? It was designed to be the perfect martial art
cjamessimon 1 year ago
not bad
nel3000 2 years ago
The sparring looks weak. One must train the way one wishes to fight. Tai CHi doesn't train to "Spar".
If you want to fight try the best karate Kyokushin or mma.
Other wise stick to the good health benefits and strictly self defense...
ToddDowney 2 years ago
But how can you train yourself for self defense without sparring...?
aosoularao 2 years ago
Tai Chi Chuan uses push hands as the start of sparring. Several tai chi schools we had the chance to meet had real sparring as a part of the program. A few in New York City were (and still are) Leung Shum's Wu Style Tai Chi Chuan, Guang Yi Ren's Chen Style classes and William C.C. Chen's Yang Style. C.C. Chen and his adult children have a real reputation for fight training. Also C.K. Chu's Yang Style.
MartialArchiveTv 2 years ago
this isnt how u apply it but their sparring is pushing hands. it one of the most practical martail arts i nteh world the russians spetznas use a style similar to it in knife fighting
kaindrg 2 years ago
Styles don't train to fight. People train to fight through the guidance of styles.
TheSenseofTouch 2 years ago 2
Well-said brother!
lucidmist 2 years ago
it works so
kaindrg 2 years ago
OMG, thats so crazy. I stumbled on to this video and i actually know Sam Masich's dad. Haha, what a crazy coincedence.
bboooobbyy 2 years ago
some good parts i guess a lot of mind force and trying to remain balanced is preety difficult. i can see the aura around kristoff clark, but true an experience boxer also has aura (focus calm timing experience)
rorochido1 2 years ago
the sparing is nothing like tai chi , it is sad because this is a chance to show what it does.
dwarf2 2 years ago
im looking at the sparing and im looking at the form work and it is not the same . the majority of yang style does not punch and does not kick. I like the sparing but it is not yang style .
dwarf2 2 years ago
they do need to read some old text i guess....the point is , if u guys like it, i really hope u know a bit more from the old texts......it will make one's easy and faster to learn ......peace
wilson5727 2 years ago
nice takedowns!!!!
horaaliya 2 years ago
cuz martial art is not about feeding ur ego tryin to prove sumthing in competition its about self defense n using ur skills to help others
SoundwaveSuperior373 2 years ago
Without trying to be too harsh, the fighters displayed here do not look like they would hold up against the majority of practitioners of 'hard' martial arts or boxing with similar experience.
joewoolliams 2 years ago
While that is probably true of players in in this particular video, you should understand that Taiji is a lifetime martial art unlike the hard ones. Taiji is designed for the longhaul for the whole person. By the mid-part of a dedicated taiji career one would be rather unstoppable as compared to most practitioners of the hard arts who are in their own prime, and that is, I think, the entire reason why Taiji persists even in this day of flashy mcdojo ma environments. Taiji is the living Dao.
HoustonShaolinTemple 2 years ago
someone who has studied tai chi for 5 years is still a beginner. someone who has studied a 'hard' art for 5 years is probably near their prime. a 70-yr old who has studied tai chi for 30-40 years would (if so inclined, and they prolly wouldn't be) easily defeat someone who was 25 and studied a 'hard' art for 10-20 years.
artao5 2 years ago
That's a bold statement. We wouldn't be inclined to bet on such a match nor want to see a 70 year old take a hard blow. Take ten or fifteen years off of the elder and you might have something there.
MartialArchiveTv 2 years ago
@MartialArchiveTv
that might not be the case age is not something that should be looked upon to determine strength for if someone trains there spirit, body and mind throughout there lifetime they tend to be strong very strong much stronger than most 20 year olds
lightfdar 1 year ago
I'd like to try that, fight a 25 year old hard style practitioner when I get about 41 years older (Age 70). I doubt you guys will remember this by then. I'm currently a beginning tai chi student. Just to clarify, I am not claiming I will win for certain but I feel a 70 year old tai chi practitioner might defeat a younger opponent and want it personally verified. I however disagree with the "5 years is a beginner" statement but I can't disprove it until I've studied the art for 5 years.
Niccomawf 1 year ago
@artao5
I'm sorry you still believe ancient Chinese stories.
Age and skill are no match for youth.
Aheyne 2 years ago
@Aheyne
A blanket statement that I think'll you'll reconsider in a decade or so. One of the best street fighters we ever knew was essentially a 65 year old street punk! He would mop up the neighborhood with stupid 20 year olds who got him mad. No formal training, just a pit bull mindset.
MartialArchiveTv 1 year ago
@MartialArchiveTv
I guess it really all depends. However, once people beginhitting the 70+ mark, it's highly unlikely they'll be able to take any strong blow or move as quickly as someone younger.
And I agree about the psychological state of mind,. I know plenty of people who remain badasses until the day they die. And punks or bullies, as a whole, are better than the vast majority of martial artists at what they do.
Aheyne 1 year ago
@Aheyne I must correct you. I know an old man (over 60 years old) who could whipe the floors with 2 30-year-old LaoShi (instructors) in Wudang Kung Fu.
AndyRaslan 1 year ago
@Aheyne
Punks or bullies are better? This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
rockleex 1 year ago 5
@rockleex We don't entirely agree but the demented psychology of a punk or bully reduces their empathy for fellow humans which will give them a fighting advantage over many rational fighters. It doesn't mean they'll win always or even half the time. The best rational fighters are able to detach themselves from the psychological attack of their opponent and neutralize them in whatever way works best.
MartialArchiveTv 1 year ago
@Aheyne here is a quote from a student of 23 years in training
"the worst beatings i have received in my life have been from 70 year old masters"
strength does not equate to power and youth does not equate to strength
bodunchar 1 year ago
@Aheyne It is the beast inside each of us that overcomes the other in conflict until only one remains. N oage, no skill, no youth, victory goes to the greater beast.
Toyomata 1 year ago
@Toyomata A smart beast or a stupid beast?
MartialArchiveTv 1 year ago
@MartialArchiveTv I tend to think in think the "beast" that is greater, has the drive, has the force, has the mind, has the advantage and superiority over the other. Without superiority I would be hard pressed to argue with why I used the word greater.
Toyomata 1 year ago