Haidong Gumdo Competition

[taihuu25go]

GUmdo copied Japanese kendo in 1970's and was born.

It is made clear that there is not the history in Gumdo at a Korean court of law.

A Korean still reciteing the false history they as for the Korean is because is it.

They do not choose the means for money and the honor.

[bonnymab]

Taihuu25go, proof-read your posts before you post them. It'll make more sense.

Yes, Gumdo is new, only dating back to the 70's but has roots in many different arts. Those proposing that it has 1000's year roots are misleading.

Lets not get into the history/honor debate unless you also want to discuss the Japanese occupation and cultural assimilation of Korea.

Leave the past in the past. Enjoy what you do today.

[radiowave433]

Please stop using Katana and hakama...these are for Japanese kendo, not for Kumdo...just to avoid mis conceptions and for Korean, please try to respect own Korean traditions!

[bonnymab]

Hanguk Haedong Kumdo wear more traditional korean uniforms. Daehan Haidong Gumdo wear uniforms similar to the japanese style. Why? You'd have to ask the respective heads of each federation.

Me? I respect my instructor for the time and energy he has put into teaching me. I wear what he tells me to wear. Call me disrespectful but I don't care about what essentially amounts to just a bunch of clothes.

Now as for the sword there are differences in the korean style jingum and japanese katana

[jpark1120]

lots of pretty moves but no point to them whatsoever imo. I took both haedong and japanese style and am a ni dan and i fail to see any merit in these "hollywood" like moves

[bonnymab]

And others view japanese styles as boring. We can both throw quips back and forth, continuing the long tradition of "my art's better than yours" or we can just enjoy what our repective arts offer.

[radiowave433]

What is "art" in it? no theory in these moves. Japanese styles are boring but its essence are came from real Samurai one on one duel.

[bonnymab]

There is art there. But you're not seeing all there is to this art. A lot of what makes it on to the web is flashy competition demos and the like, which tend to over ephasis things. But trust me under all that is good old "boring" foundation. Stance training, step-sparing drills, forms training, all the goodies.

I watch some iaito videos and think "what was that move supposed to do?" and it flies over my head. i admit it. It's hard to glean every thing an art is from some youtube video.

[asiankid1111]

what happens if u make a mistake while swinging. havethere ever been any accidents?

[Priest105]

umm... never heard of any major accident..

but personally once during belt test

my wooden sword flew out of my hand...

[and flew towards the masters...:S]

[Kavelman]

they use wooden swords while sparring

[SuperStreet04]

those are not sharp katana they are called Iaito katana not sharp but sturdy like a real katana

[bonnymab]

it's most likely a kagum, an unsharpened, single edge blade, similar to an iaito blade but typically straighter with a slight shorter hilt.

[twkXIII]

hey, i practice gumdo. which one is better? haedong gumdo or gumdo?

[bonnymab]

What tastes better apples or peaches?

[twkXIII]

peaches :)

[mattyk94]

Jeong Ho Kim is my uncle, the president of HDGD

i find it excellent that HDGD videos on youtube.

im sure it'd give him pride (:

hes my moms brother

[5A1312EWULFX]

In september i will be reciveing training under your uncles apprentice

[hirohawa]

Where is the music from? Ids there a way to get this on a cd?

[bonnymab]

I'm not sure. It's unlikely but you may still be able to order a CD from the World HDGD Federation. Refer to the link in the video description for contact info.

[Iaifreak]

The problem of Haidong Gumdo is not simply as that. A Martial Art teaches you more than technique, teaches you the respect, for example, respect your rival, respect your master ....

But how about respect your boys and girls you are teaching now? Most of the people I know that are training Haidong Gumdo believe they are training ancient swordmanship

[bonnymab]

I don't believe a system can teach a person respect. Respect comes from within, taught by one's parents. Most of the martial artists I know weren't converted by their master's teachings to be respectful. They were raised that way. Don't get me wrong, teaching respect is a good thing and should be encouraged.

[Iaifreak]

Well, this is a personal question: Are you Korean?

[bonnymab]

No, Canadian of Scottish/English descent.

[bonnymab]

It's how I teach. In our school we start/end each class with a bow to master and fellow students. Those I help after class, I thank them accordingly for having an open mind to my feedback and comments. So I would argue respect isn't taught so much as reinforced through example.

[Iaifreak]

I want to see a Korean swordmanship using swords like this, but the occupation of Japan was disastrous for Korean tradition.

I love the Japanese culture and I practise Iaijûtsu and Kenjûtsu, both ZNKR Federation and traditional school (Koryu or Ryuha) and now I'm beginning to practise also Jojûtsu; but the XX Century of Japan ... I hate It

[bonnymab]

Ancient swordsmanship...yes and no. After the occupation little was left of Korean martial arts. HDGD was created in the 1970s but using acient (read: historical) information (Muye Dobo Tonji, Gicheon).

Proponents tend to push ancient, debunkers the opposite. I think the truth is closer to the middle.

[Iaifreak]

Mmmm It's the first time I read about Muye Dobo Tonji; so, with this discussion we enriched each other!

The three Korean swords of the XIX Century that are preserved in the web Seven Stars Trading are good examples, even if you don't know nothing about the fabrication of Japanese swords, you can see many differences.

[Ilporko]

I do HDGD, and think this is a fair summary. HDGD is a reinactment and modern style of mostly ancient material, with some modern stuff thrown in.

[Iaifreak]

In the web, click on "articles" ... also, you can find the web by searching "korean swords" in Google

Watch the swords, and then we continue our discussion ;)

[bonnymab]

Found it. Excellent pictures. And we're both correct. :)

You were refering to blades of 19th century (SevenStarsTrading). I was referring to blades from Three Kingdoms era (wiki "korean sword" for a picture). Now I see what you're saying and agree.

Side note: It's interesting how combative societies adopt (steal?) weapons technology from each other.

[bonnymab]

I'm not interested in the history or spiritual side of it. If someone were to tell me Gumdo was invented by a purple dinosaur would that change my training, my technique? If Gumdo was created by the Greeks and stolen by the Australians would that change how I do my gumbup? I have a religion, a family history. I don't need to seek deeper meaning somewhere else. Gumdo to me, just simply is.

[Iaifreak]

I can't post an URL, look "sevenstarstrading" dot com and search "korean sabers" .... there you can see 3 authentic Korean sabers.

I listen form example that Kendo is an art created by the Koreans 2000 years ago; or Hapkido used in a war in the VI Century ... How can I trust in a master or in an art If the masters are liying me since the beginning of my practise?

[bonnymab]

The website appears to sell only Chinese swords. I wasn't able to find any Korean sabers.

As to your other question, you probably shouldn't. But what if your master had been misled by his master. Does that then invalidate your master and what he has taught you? He was operating on the assumption/ intention that what he knew was true.

[Iaifreak]

We can read the "official story" of the Haidong Gumdo, with "samurangs" and other elements that are false (ethymologically the word samurai derived from saburai, which is also derived form old Japanese "saburau", meaning "service")

[bonnymab]

Have to take your word on this one. I'm not a linguist.

[Iaifreak]

Also Korean swords were shorter than Japanese and has an end pommel; the Japanese swords has not pommel.

There are other important differeces: Korean sword saya (or sheath) are metalic and hunging from the Obi; they are wearing the sword like Japanese to, with the shape upwards and putting them in the Hakama and Obi's spaces.

[bonnymab]

(I'll skip the Jp/Kr and just use English terms)

I agree for the most part. But I've rarely seen a modern korean sword with metallic sheaths. They're more expensive than wood, so I'd suspect they were high-end, or demonstration models. Both of mine are wood with brass fittings. One has rings to allow it to be tied to the belt and hang blade-side down. The other does not and is held in the belt blade-edge up.

[Iaifreak]

My opinion is this: the Koreans takes Japanese elements because in the disastrous occupation (1910-1945) the Japan Empire destroyed the cultural elements that marks the difference between Korea and Japan; and now we can see a "revenge".

[bonnymab]

I disagree. While I'm sure some Koreans feel that way I'm sure there are more that would like nothing to do with Japan. It's a sad state of animosity. However 35 years of cultural rule has left marks and I think we see that in many areas of Korean life, Gumdo being one of them.

[Iaifreak]

My sensei has a Korean sword and his sword is completely different from Japanese: the Tsuka (sorry, I don't know the Korean names for the swords components) is very short, and the Korean takes the weapon with one hand or with two hands, If they take the sword with two hands, the nads are put together, not with the space that we can see in Haedong Gumdo that It's the Japanese way to take the sword.

[bonnymab]

I suspect the sword you're talking about is a traditional Korean sword. Historically most Korean swords were straight, short, double-edged swords more similar to Chinese swords (exceptions apply). Modern swords used in Gumdo are similar to katanas, with the exceptions I previously noted.

[Iaifreak]

Hehehe the Korean Haedong Gumdo is fake; the slash is not real, and have several mistakes: the balance of the swordman is very low, and they are using a Japanese sword with one hand, the Katana is a two-handed weapon.

Then, everybody who are practising Iaido or Kenjutsu cn see easily that these Korean wear a Hakama-like pants and they put the sword in the same position of Japanese sword, helped by an Obi.

In short: spectacular, beautiful, but not real swordmanship.

[bonnymab]

Try to be more open minded about other arts. If someone is claiming that Haedong Gumdo is Iaido/Kendo/Kenjitsu then yes, from that respect they'd be wrong and you'd be correct in calling it fake. However, Haedong Gumdo is not. It is a sword art with clear differences from the Japanese and Chinese styles, as you've mentioned.

[Iaifreak]

Of course, I practise Iaijutsu and Kenjutsu; I see Haedong Gumdo is different in the style, but they are using a lot of Japanese or Japanese-like components.

[bonnymab]

True. And I'm not entirely sure why. Some Japanese accuse the Koreans of "stealing" and some Koreans argue it's theirs. There are technological and style differences, so the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

[bonnymab]

The jingum, while similar in appearance is different than the katana. It is straighter and a bit heavier. The handle is shorter as it is intended to be used with two hands or one.

As for the fashion, we could argue the why's and the hows for days. But ultimately someone high up in the organization decided all his students would wear "x" pants with "y" top. Don't fault them for it.

[bonnymab]

There are two main Gumdo Organizations: one wears hakama-like pants, the other traditional korean pants.

Iaifreak, from your user name and comments I assume you practise Japanese swordsmanship. I have a great respect for those arts. But why the need to bash Korean swordsmanship?

[Ilporko]

Low balance, near to the ground, is a good thing. My kwangjangnim just yesterday corrected my balance by haitting me while I was crouching, and knocking me over. Low balance is good.

[kidhadoken]

My sabaumnim is 5th dan in Hangeuk Kumdo,and will soon be teaching it.

[Gamestationx360]

Another difference in the blades of Japan and Korea is the Korean blades geometry is usually shobu zukuri where as the Japanese favor the shinogi zukuri blade style of course both vary but as far as popular blade styles go. By the way I apologize for not knowing what the Korean terminology is.

[coree1011]

Why korean use katana(japanese sword) and hakama?

I can not understand...

[4thDan]

Gumdo, in my opinion, utilizes more of the curved blade more effectively than the Japanese sword techniques. I have practiced both Japanese and Korean, and I prefer Korean. It's more flowing and has a bit more application IMHO.

[henkihareid]

eeeee...then u shud know thath the korean sword style is japanese sword style,the korean warriors traind by the bushido wich is japanese sword techniqes,i have trained japanese and korean sword style to, and i prefer the japanese sword style, the japanese style flows like the water with a mind of ice!

[TAPPHAYA]

cool

[bonnymab]

marz12aug, do not post spam on my videos. They have been deleted. You are however entitled to your opinion, narrow-minded that it may be. So I have not deleted this one.

[marz12aug]

Why does this person use a hakama and a sword of a samurai?

Why do not you use a Korean traditional dress like a pride?

Is this to deceive a Westerner?

[zerggyboi]

u just got owned white boy

[aoknives]

i agree, bonnymab > v9a9v

[bonnymab]

Why Katana? Because it's physical characteristics make it and excellent weapon. 

If you want to get into specifics, the swords shown are technically not katana, they are jingum and share only superficial similarities to the japanese blades.

[bonnymab]

Katanas have a typically more pronounced blade curvature. Jingums are much straighter and typically heavier. Jingums also usually have a much shorter handle than the japanese katana. There are exceptions to every rule but those are the general characteristics.

[bonnymab]

The jingum is Korean. If you want to get into the origin, well how far back do you want to go? No one culture can claim invention of the sword.

However each culture has it's unique take on it and cultures that war with each other recognize and adopt the best practises of their opponents hoping to innovate and exceed them in future conflicts.

[bonnymab]

So yes, the sword we think of today as the Katana is a Japanese weapon. An excellent weapon developed from centuries of superbly refined swordsmithing. Modern Korean Jingum can trance their origins to Japanese Katana, just you can trace the origins of the pre-katana japanese swords to Korea and China.

Don't forget the cultures of China, Korea and Japan have heavily influenced each other through centuries of conflicts, migration and trade.

[skyoon]

yep, for example the first few inches of a jingum are blunt to faciliate edge to edge blocking, a feature absent from japanese katana.

[skyoon]

I also take offense to your comment of "korean money making", seeing as how im korean, if you knew anything about the sword arts you'd realize gumdo and something like kenjutsu are different as night and day