A point can be made also that a true team sport (not handegg) requires more egoism then an individual sport because it forces you to be confident that just you should control or make a play at a single time. Also I think team sports is more important because it reflects the human nature more, we are after all a social creature who is dependent of others.
MrCropper, that's a good observation about Greek sports being individual. That same observation is made by one of Tom Wolfe's intellectual characters in his novel *I Am Charlotte Simmons*. The character says that the original Olympic sports were individual competitions. He says all modern team sports are an outgrowth of the Middle Ages. He says that's when team sports originated, and they were intended as simulations of war. "Team vs. team" represents "army vs. army."
Team mentality and collectivism evolved, I believe, from our tribal evolutionary past. Collectivism in SMALL groups works fairly well, allowing for specialization and sharing of resources in resource-scarce environments, increasing the chances of survival for all the members. The trouble is that collectivist approaches work best when the group size is smaller than 150, and one has freedom to OPT OUT. A top-down collectivist approach definitely does not work well in large complex societies.
@outsidemendham This theory is responsible for the pussification of America. Nothing could be worse for a kid to do a terrible job at something and be rewarded for it. Failure is part of life, better get used to it at a very young age.
@MrCropper Understandable, I enjoy it because it's something I learned for self-defense and fitness reasons. I’m not big on team sports either. But what’s really fascinating about martial arts is that it’s extraordinarily and deceptively strategic; every movement and every thought that occurs between the fighters can make a huge difference. There are all kinds of martial philosophies dedicated to just predicting and reacting to an opponent. It’s an interesting topic to read on if nothing else.
@MrCropper i'm curious to your opinion of learning self-defense not so much boxing because it doesn't work. I'm talking about Brazilian jiu jitsu, for the reason that you are not required to inflict damage, but use a submission to get compliance from an attacker. You might not know or anyone of these people in here know what Brazilian jiu-jitsu is. o.o
Lol, I have never liked sports at all.I can remember going to football games with my cousin,and uncle,and I was more interested in the stadium,and how it was engineered.
1/2 I agree with you generally here, but that isn't why I like modern sports. To me, the primary pleasure comes from the individual achievements - regardless of if they occur within a team context. I also take a certain amount of pleasure from watching a "team" perform well. It is an affirmation of the maxim that there are no conflicts of interest between rational men...
2/2 ... But yes, I agree with you generally, and I certainly think that collectivism explains the rise in team sports and the decline in individual sports. Just think about how baseball - a relatively individualistic sport - has been eclipsed by football and (shudder) soccer in America in the last few generations.
Incidentally, that is why (arrogantly) contend that baseball is the penultimate sport. It exploits the two inspirational aspects of sport to have the most profitable experience.
I was being flippant because I find it remarkable, laughable even, that you would try to make a serious and defensible argument - not merely assert a preference - that one sport, like baseball, is superior to another sport, like soccer, which are all superior to mixed martial arts fighting. I would love to see the reasoning behind the flagrant assertion that to become a professional fighter in MMA requires "no egoism" after I see a justification that MMA is an ...
"implicit and explicit repudiation of the sanctity and dignity of the individual and the virtue it takes to be good at something."
If this were true, you could walk into a cage match with Georges St Pierre - or some professional fighter in your weight class - and defeat him easily. For someone to say it does not require training to become a professional MMA fighter is so ignorant it would require evasion.
Interestingly enough, some segments of the wrestling world have retained their Grecian heritage--consider professional wrestling (as much of an act as it is)--it's dominated by individual glory-seekers. Granted, on the public school level it's transformed into a team sport, but I'm glad to see that some aspects of Grecian pankration (interesting tidbit--the word translates roughly to "total fighting") have lived on in pro wrestling, lucha libre, et al.
I think you might be interested to know a little more about the history of modern, team-oriented sports: their origins lie in the earlier days of British universities, back in the heyday of the British Empire. Back then, British universities were largely concerned with grooming young men from aristocratic families for eventual roles as military and governmental leaders elsewhere in the Empire. To that end, team sports served as a pantomime of infantry warfare.
The general meaning of the video is right. Sports in ancient Greece were more individualistic. However, torch race was a relay race too. Less popular though. Another difference is that women were banned from sports in most cases. So more individualistic and more serious.
OK, so good points. Let me bring maybe another sport to your attention (one that I am a fan of): Tennis. Especially 1v1 matches; it's graceful, individuated and requires immense training and skill. However, I'm certain you are aware of a number of sports worth seeing that strongly uphold the individual.
I think the most clear evidence of an individualism is the Indianapolis Colts. They lost 1 player and are currently winless. I guess they spelled team "iiii" or an alternate spelling would be "Manning". There's no "i" in team my ass. For them it's only "i".
Excellent reponse. I was going to say that Cropper never ran track or any running event. Nobody cares about the team category except as an aside afterwards. Even relays are about the splits.
Plenty of individualistic sports. But there's nothing wrong with team sports either because individidualistic qualities are showcased even with in team context.
Still, great video Cropper. You are correct in your assessments, but hopefully we appreciate individuality.
@qtutoringhelps (1/2) Modern MMA, per se, is worse than the most routine and cliche celebrations of collectivism seen in modern team sports. Those, at least, are bromides - the people who believe them, subconsciously at least, don't agree with them (if they did, they would take no pleasure in a team's success, because in truth it takes exceptional egoism to be successful in those)...
@qtutoringhelps (2/2) ... MMA, however, with it's minimal rules, is an implicit and explicit repudiation of the sanctity and dignity of the individual and the virtue it takes to be good at something. It's a ritualized celebration of the notion that the individual is expendable - and not even for the sake of the "team's" success, but simply for expendability's sake.
"... explicit repudiation of the sanctity and dignity of the individual and the virtue it takes to be good at something."
Although there are some brutes in MMA, George St. Pierre, to take one example, is an extraordinarily talented athlete, whose skill level and dedication to perfection in all martial arts--boxing and karate, wrestling, grappling, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu--is an absolute pleasure to observe. Your observations about MMA are about as valuable as your views on China
That's why Golf is the greatest game of all time.
stripe64 2 months ago
A point can be made also that a true team sport (not handegg) requires more egoism then an individual sport because it forces you to be confident that just you should control or make a play at a single time. Also I think team sports is more important because it reflects the human nature more, we are after all a social creature who is dependent of others.
jaklarvabra 2 months ago
greek sports were individual because all the team activities were warfare, pillaging and other team efforts.
gratex 2 months ago
MrCropper, that's a good observation about Greek sports being individual. That same observation is made by one of Tom Wolfe's intellectual characters in his novel *I Am Charlotte Simmons*. The character says that the original Olympic sports were individual competitions. He says all modern team sports are an outgrowth of the Middle Ages. He says that's when team sports originated, and they were intended as simulations of war. "Team vs. team" represents "army vs. army."
What do you think?
legendre007 2 months ago
Team mentality and collectivism evolved, I believe, from our tribal evolutionary past. Collectivism in SMALL groups works fairly well, allowing for specialization and sharing of resources in resource-scarce environments, increasing the chances of survival for all the members. The trouble is that collectivist approaches work best when the group size is smaller than 150, and one has freedom to OPT OUT. A top-down collectivist approach definitely does not work well in large complex societies.
toluca56 2 months ago
I think it is a very good thing, when competitions do not create any losers. We don't want anybody to feel bad.
outsidemendham 2 months ago
@outsidemendham This theory is responsible for the pussification of America. Nothing could be worse for a kid to do a terrible job at something and be rewarded for it. Failure is part of life, better get used to it at a very young age.
stripe64 2 months ago
Not even a fan of pro boxing Cropper?
CalvinJGreen 2 months ago
@CalvinJGreen "Not even a fan of pro boxing Cropper?"
Not at all. Violence doesn't appeal to me unless it is being unleashed ungainst aggressors, and even then it is regrettable.
MrCropper 2 months ago
@MrCropper Understandable, I enjoy it because it's something I learned for self-defense and fitness reasons. I’m not big on team sports either. But what’s really fascinating about martial arts is that it’s extraordinarily and deceptively strategic; every movement and every thought that occurs between the fighters can make a huge difference. There are all kinds of martial philosophies dedicated to just predicting and reacting to an opponent. It’s an interesting topic to read on if nothing else.
CalvinJGreen 2 months ago
@MrCropper i'm curious to your opinion of learning self-defense not so much boxing because it doesn't work. I'm talking about Brazilian jiu jitsu, for the reason that you are not required to inflict damage, but use a submission to get compliance from an attacker. You might not know or anyone of these people in here know what Brazilian jiu-jitsu is. o.o
jamesellis33 1 month ago
Lol, I have never liked sports at all.I can remember going to football games with my cousin,and uncle,and I was more interested in the stadium,and how it was engineered.
Cogitatio023 2 months ago
1/2 I agree with you generally here, but that isn't why I like modern sports. To me, the primary pleasure comes from the individual achievements - regardless of if they occur within a team context. I also take a certain amount of pleasure from watching a "team" perform well. It is an affirmation of the maxim that there are no conflicts of interest between rational men...
grantsinmypants2 2 months ago
2/2 ... But yes, I agree with you generally, and I certainly think that collectivism explains the rise in team sports and the decline in individual sports. Just think about how baseball - a relatively individualistic sport - has been eclipsed by football and (shudder) soccer in America in the last few generations.
Incidentally, that is why (arrogantly) contend that baseball is the penultimate sport. It exploits the two inspirational aspects of sport to have the most profitable experience.
grantsinmypants2 2 months ago
@grantsinmypants2
Soccer! Ghastly! It's played by - wait for it - Europeans!
qtutoringhelps 2 months ago
@qtutoringhelps What?
grantsinmypants2 2 months ago
@grantsinmypants2
[1/2]
I was being flippant because I find it remarkable, laughable even, that you would try to make a serious and defensible argument - not merely assert a preference - that one sport, like baseball, is superior to another sport, like soccer, which are all superior to mixed martial arts fighting. I would love to see the reasoning behind the flagrant assertion that to become a professional fighter in MMA requires "no egoism" after I see a justification that MMA is an ...
qtutoringhelps 2 months ago
@qtutoringhelps
[2/2]
"implicit and explicit repudiation of the sanctity and dignity of the individual and the virtue it takes to be good at something."
If this were true, you could walk into a cage match with Georges St Pierre - or some professional fighter in your weight class - and defeat him easily. For someone to say it does not require training to become a professional MMA fighter is so ignorant it would require evasion.
qtutoringhelps 2 months ago
@qtutoringhelps It's a good thing I didn't say that then.
grantsinmypants2 2 months ago
@qtutoringhelps
Europeans, they have uncircumcised dicks!!!
They not even real men. We Americans put our prisoners to death and bomb the shit out of the rest of the world...Now, we are MEN!!!
outsidemendham 2 months ago
In this country you can admire both individual athletes and there efforts and teams.
goonsnak2k 2 months ago
@goonsnak2k
Not in MrCropper's worldview. Check out his older videos about objectivism.
outsidemendham 2 months ago
Interestingly enough, some segments of the wrestling world have retained their Grecian heritage--consider professional wrestling (as much of an act as it is)--it's dominated by individual glory-seekers. Granted, on the public school level it's transformed into a team sport, but I'm glad to see that some aspects of Grecian pankration (interesting tidbit--the word translates roughly to "total fighting") have lived on in pro wrestling, lucha libre, et al.
Aotommo 2 months ago
I think you might be interested to know a little more about the history of modern, team-oriented sports: their origins lie in the earlier days of British universities, back in the heyday of the British Empire. Back then, British universities were largely concerned with grooming young men from aristocratic families for eventual roles as military and governmental leaders elsewhere in the Empire. To that end, team sports served as a pantomime of infantry warfare.
Aotommo 2 months ago
Some questions:
1. How many books do you have?
2. How do you organize them? Is there some help on the internet on how I can manage my books?
3. What kind of books are there on your shelves?? Topics??
Thanks in advance.
makedonas86 2 months ago
The general meaning of the video is right. Sports in ancient Greece were more individualistic. However, torch race was a relay race too. Less popular though. Another difference is that women were banned from sports in most cases. So more individualistic and more serious.
TakisAthensGr 2 months ago
OK, so good points. Let me bring maybe another sport to your attention (one that I am a fan of): Tennis. Especially 1v1 matches; it's graceful, individuated and requires immense training and skill. However, I'm certain you are aware of a number of sports worth seeing that strongly uphold the individual.
Good to see you're still tickin' Cropper.
603881 2 months ago
Great point
Jazzper79 2 months ago
Not to mention all sports today are win/lose (that I know of), none of them are win/win.
SuperFinGuy 2 months ago
I think the most clear evidence of an individualism is the Indianapolis Colts. They lost 1 player and are currently winless. I guess they spelled team "iiii" or an alternate spelling would be "Manning". There's no "i" in team my ass. For them it's only "i".
SunriseInTheMidwest 2 months ago
Glad to see you're making videos again. =)
NotThat3 2 months ago 10
Modern MMA is individualistic and it's growing!
qtutoringhelps 2 months ago in playlist More videos from MrCropper
@qtutoringhelps
Excellent reponse. I was going to say that Cropper never ran track or any running event. Nobody cares about the team category except as an aside afterwards. Even relays are about the splits.
Plenty of individualistic sports. But there's nothing wrong with team sports either because individidualistic qualities are showcased even with in team context.
Still, great video Cropper. You are correct in your assessments, but hopefully we appreciate individuality.
SBRslacker00 2 months ago
@qtutoringhelps (1/2) Modern MMA, per se, is worse than the most routine and cliche celebrations of collectivism seen in modern team sports. Those, at least, are bromides - the people who believe them, subconsciously at least, don't agree with them (if they did, they would take no pleasure in a team's success, because in truth it takes exceptional egoism to be successful in those)...
grantsinmypants2 2 months ago
@qtutoringhelps (2/2) ... MMA, however, with it's minimal rules, is an implicit and explicit repudiation of the sanctity and dignity of the individual and the virtue it takes to be good at something. It's a ritualized celebration of the notion that the individual is expendable - and not even for the sake of the "team's" success, but simply for expendability's sake.
grantsinmypants2 2 months ago
@grantsinmypants2
I completely disagree with you.
qtutoringhelps 2 months ago
@grantsinmypants2
"... explicit repudiation of the sanctity and dignity of the individual and the virtue it takes to be good at something."
Although there are some brutes in MMA, George St. Pierre, to take one example, is an extraordinarily talented athlete, whose skill level and dedication to perfection in all martial arts--boxing and karate, wrestling, grappling, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu--is an absolute pleasure to observe. Your observations about MMA are about as valuable as your views on China
qtutoringhelps 2 months ago
@qtutoringhelps
*That is to say: although I disagree with your views on China, I consider them quite valuable ;-)
qtutoringhelps 2 months ago
The closest thing to a sport that was a group event to the greeks was war.
WarVideo 2 months ago 8
Soccer in Europe is so nationalistic. The only sport I like to watch is Snooker Trick Shots on ESPN!
yankeewh1te 2 months ago
@yankeewh1te
The connection between nationalism-tribalism-statism and team sports is so obvious that one is tempted to say it's a conspiracy.
qtutoringhelps 2 months ago in playlist More videos from MrCropper
@yankeewh1te
And what is so bad about nationalism, he? I love my country, since it is the best.
watch?v=JoAWCwm-UXw
outsidemendham 2 months ago