Great Video! Funny thing is the DP's get irritated that these coal trains aren't making good time up the west slope yet they continue to underpower them out of Connellsville by at least one unit. If these trains had 3 on the head end and 3 shoving they would manage at least 25mph up the mountain and wouldn't tie up the RR
This is perhaps one of the best videos ever uploaded on YOUTUBE that shows the incredible physics of mountain railroading......what is involved in moving millions of tons of freight over the Alleghenies. From sheer tractive effort to moving faster trains around slowerones. And don't forget the helper sets required. There is just something about those GM EMD Turbocharged locomotives of the past. It made my day.
@ConrailErie ...ditto conrail, the 2nd train coming up the grade, (before you see it) sounds like it ought to be going 45 or 50, but it's diggin' hard at maybe 25, draggin' a hell of a load ... the ol' SD's rock!!
This is perhaps one of the best videos ever uploaded on YOUTUBE that shows the incredible physics of mountain railroading......what it takes to move millions of tons of freight over the Alleghenies. There is just something about those GM EMD Turbocharged locomotives of the past. It made my day.
Did you shoot this video from a public lookout? Is Sand Patch part of the trackage between Pittsburgh and Altoona? I never heard of Sand Patch before, but I'd like to visit this site.
@shifta65 Sand Patch isnt on the Pittsburgh-Altoona NS line. This line runs between Cumberland Maryland & Pittsburgh via Connelsville Pennsylvania. There isnt any major train parks like the one on horseshoe curve but CSX knows its a popular line and doesnt mind having railfans taking pictures (just be sure not to trespass). Most of the popular places to visit on Sand Patch arent easily acessable so be sure to be prepared for some long walks for the most part.
@acdcrocker, that bridge is now a hiker/biker trail. It was formerly the mainline (Connellsville Subdivision) of the Western Maryland Railway. Most of that part of the WM was abandoned in 1975.
@meccaturbo It should also be noted that in the late 80s there was a coal mine that needed rail access so part of the WM mainline from the mine to the old B&O main was revived which included the bridge at Keystone. Obviously between now & then the operation has ceased.
@DASCO2136 I remember hearing about that too. It's too bad Chessie abandoned the WM, since the WM's Connellsville Sub had much better grades and clearances than the ex B&O, it's only downfall being that it was single track. However, NS has 3 tracks over the east side of the ex PRR between Altoona and Gallitzin, and I still think CSX/Chessie would have been wise to keep the WM as a 3rd main track.
I wish they still used those helpers, but on the west slope they now use D8-40C's and sometimes SD70MAC's. Occasionally you may see SD50-2's but not so much anymore. The east slope still uses SD50-2's though I've seen a ES44DC used already.
The east slope is closer to the Cumberland locomotive shop, so when those old EMD clunkers break down, it's easier for them to get back to Cumberland for repairs. The big GE's are a lot newer and probably a lot more reliable.
lol that's cause sometimes we have a choice as to which units we want to take and we will always take west facing units if possible. That way the dispatcher wont send us down the hill to cumberland.
If you count the former Western Maryland Connellsville Subdivision, there were definitely 3 tracks over the summit. That line was 1 track, and the ex B&O is 2.
Great stuff csxt6573. I whish that CSX would put all the coaltrain over the Mountain Sub. I know the grade is steeper but the Mountain sub is one of my favorite ones.
in my opinion EMDs sound more suited for drag service....they just have a consistant roar going up the hill while the GEs have the chugging which doesnt sound ok with drags.
Yes, we run autoracks all the time. There are very few cars/freight that can't fit the tunnels between Cumberland and Newcastle. There are some locations where there is close clearance for trains to pass, so some restricted freight can't be passed, but tunnels and bridges are good.
We run everything under the sun. With traffic down, you think there would be no locomotive availability issues, but I still get an occasional SD40 built in 1966 as my leader. I was born in 1970 for God's sake. I blew out the control stand and lost everything but headlights and radio in the middle of winter. I limped into Newcastle, PA (50 miles north of Pittsburgh) with no heat and freezing. Gotta love the power bureau.
NICE video, what particular spot is this along the Sand Patch grade? Havnt been out there yet but plan to soon so not very familair with the area. Also what is the grade at the steepest part?
The shot of the truss bridge is on the west side of the Sandpatch grade, about 2 miles from the summit, so the train is obviously eastbound, headed for Cumberland. The bridge is near milepost BF 213, just 2 miles east of Meyersdale, PA. I have worked Cumberland to Newcastle for the last 10 years. So far as I know without looking it up, the steepest grade is 1.8%.
Oh, and as for the GE vs. EMD/GM locos, I prefer the GE's. Most fellow engineers in Cumberland agree, but I'm sure there are EMD fans as well. The first GE hammers did have traction issues on the hill, but the pros outweigh the cons.
We also factor in more than just power and performance. I've spent over 20 hrs. in those cabs before, and I'll take a new GE any day. All widebodies are lousy for yard work because of the lag between throttle changes.
What is that red glow starting at about 3:54? It starts out real faint, right under the second car. It stays in the same place, for a bit. It gets really bright, then it fades again. It actually stayed under the fifth car or so, moving with it, whereas it had remained stationary at first. It's real faint and hard to see at that point.
Is it just me, or does it always seem like most of the railroads or CSX & NS use EMD units for helpers...humm wonder why? Maybe they are more dependable than the GE's???
They would need more.... CSX crews have told me they were way too slippery! Evidently the mechanical forces agreed since CSX rebuilt all their AC6000CW's into 4400HP units.
i would be more that happy to see more of this because i find it very relaxing so if you have any more of trains going up the sandpatch like this i would be very greatful
Very nice video, I especially liked the 3 helpers on the rear of the 1st Coal Drag @ 1:50. Do you know why 700 was renumbered to 4500 after the wreck?
I'm surprised you didn't see any foreign power that day, Sandpatch almost always gets foreign power leading courtesy of Brand X's chaotic style.
It came back as 700, but 700, and all the other SD70AC's were renumbered somewhat recently into the 4500's to line up better with the other SD70-series engines on the roster, and I've noticed the newest batch of ES44's took the 700-series slot over. They were doing a bunch of track work between Garrett and Rockwood and the train counts were kinda low because of this. I was happy we didn't get a bunch of Foreign power since I live out west now and it's "normal" to me now, haha.
Actually, I was hoping the Spirit of Cumberland would come by, as I never got to see it as the 700 before it was wrecked, and about pooped myself when I ralized the 4500 was, the old 700.
Absolutely fabulous!!!! That is eastern railroading at its very best. Great job! I notice that they don't have any of the GEVO's trying to do this route with the loaded coal trains. Love those SD70AC's.
The grade runs from Salisbary jct to Sand Patch summit a distance of about 5-10 miles. It's not as steep as it's more famous counterpart the east slope but no helpers are required for eastbounds except for very heavy trains i believe
Eastbound trains know when they start their day whether or not they'll need a helper eastbound over the grade. I get my helper on at Connelsville, PA (60 miles away from Sandpatch). We usually pull the head of the train through the Sandpatch tunnel (about 4600 ft. long) and have the helper cut off before descending the east slope down to Cumberland. The Cumberland side runs between 1.5 and 1.8 percent grade for 18 miles with a sag about halfway down.
Great Video! Funny thing is the DP's get irritated that these coal trains aren't making good time up the west slope yet they continue to underpower them out of Connellsville by at least one unit. If these trains had 3 on the head end and 3 shoving they would manage at least 25mph up the mountain and wouldn't tie up the RR
JlMMIEJAM 4 months ago
This is perhaps one of the best videos ever uploaded on YOUTUBE that shows the incredible physics of mountain railroading......what is involved in moving millions of tons of freight over the Alleghenies. From sheer tractive effort to moving faster trains around slowerones. And don't forget the helper sets required. There is just something about those GM EMD Turbocharged locomotives of the past. It made my day.
ConrailErie 5 months ago
@ConrailErie ...ditto conrail, the 2nd train coming up the grade, (before you see it) sounds like it ought to be going 45 or 50, but it's diggin' hard at maybe 25, draggin' a hell of a load ... the ol' SD's rock!!
U2rocksKEN 4 months ago in playlist my playlist
This is perhaps one of the best videos ever uploaded on YOUTUBE that shows the incredible physics of mountain railroading......what it takes to move millions of tons of freight over the Alleghenies. There is just something about those GM EMD Turbocharged locomotives of the past. It made my day.
ConrailErie 5 months ago
who would dislike this video? this video is pure gold to my ears
RRYankfan 8 months ago
looks like they have to double the mountain which means take the train up in 2 maybe 3 sections so as to avoid a runaaway
boweandrew3 1 year ago
@boweandrew3 No, no doubling of the hill in this video...
csxt6573 1 year ago
wear is this
goobert3 1 year ago
wow,this is beautiful!
corsey987 1 year ago
Did you shoot this video from a public lookout? Is Sand Patch part of the trackage between Pittsburgh and Altoona? I never heard of Sand Patch before, but I'd like to visit this site.
shifta65 1 year ago
@shifta65 Sand Patch isnt on the Pittsburgh-Altoona NS line. This line runs between Cumberland Maryland & Pittsburgh via Connelsville Pennsylvania. There isnt any major train parks like the one on horseshoe curve but CSX knows its a popular line and doesnt mind having railfans taking pictures (just be sure not to trespass). Most of the popular places to visit on Sand Patch arent easily acessable so be sure to be prepared for some long walks for the most part.
DASCO2136 1 year ago
is that bridge still in active use or is it abandoned?
acdcrocker 2 years ago
@acdcrocker, that bridge is now a hiker/biker trail. It was formerly the mainline (Connellsville Subdivision) of the Western Maryland Railway. Most of that part of the WM was abandoned in 1975.
meccaturbo 2 years ago
@meccaturbo It should also be noted that in the late 80s there was a coal mine that needed rail access so part of the WM mainline from the mine to the old B&O main was revived which included the bridge at Keystone. Obviously between now & then the operation has ceased.
DASCO2136 1 year ago
@DASCO2136 I remember hearing about that too. It's too bad Chessie abandoned the WM, since the WM's Connellsville Sub had much better grades and clearances than the ex B&O, it's only downfall being that it was single track. However, NS has 3 tracks over the east side of the ex PRR between Altoona and Gallitzin, and I still think CSX/Chessie would have been wise to keep the WM as a 3rd main track.
meccaturbo 1 year ago
The mainfest train was CSX R409, a yearly reroute train.
xxxDeath9572xxx 2 years ago
I wish they still used those helpers, but on the west slope they now use D8-40C's and sometimes SD70MAC's. Occasionally you may see SD50-2's but not so much anymore. The east slope still uses SD50-2's though I've seen a ES44DC used already.
o00o00ozy 2 years ago
The east slope is closer to the Cumberland locomotive shop, so when those old EMD clunkers break down, it's easier for them to get back to Cumberland for repairs. The big GE's are a lot newer and probably a lot more reliable.
meccaturbo 2 years ago
lol that's cause sometimes we have a choice as to which units we want to take and we will always take west facing units if possible. That way the dispatcher wont send us down the hill to cumberland.
fizzlejibbs 2 years ago
am i correct that there used to be three tracks up the grade?
just an awesome video by the way.
JoaoT805 2 years ago
probaly because in the first shot it looks like there used to be a third track
PaulPeirceFan 2 years ago
yeah because it looks like there was a track bed there.
JoaoT805 2 years ago
You are correct. From Sand patch down to near Meyersdale, as I recall, there were 3 tracks.
csxt6573 2 years ago
do you know why it was taken out?
JoaoT805 2 years ago
If you count the former Western Maryland Connellsville Subdivision, there were definitely 3 tracks over the summit. That line was 1 track, and the ex B&O is 2.
meccaturbo 2 years ago
Perfect video - makes me wish I was there. I model WM and B&O in N-scale, and the colors in the video are a great help in getting it right. Thanks.
gordiedi 2 years ago
Great stuff csxt6573. I whish that CSX would put all the coaltrain over the Mountain Sub. I know the grade is steeper but the Mountain sub is one of my favorite ones.
supertouring 2 years ago
Wow...The season is perfect....What more could ya ask for....Thanx for sharing
JeremiahTrane 2 years ago
Great video! I loved the scenery! Where was this filmed?
alienwareufo 2 years ago
in my opinion EMDs sound more suited for drag service....they just have a consistant roar going up the hill while the GEs have the chugging which doesnt sound ok with drags.
DASCO2136 2 years ago
Wasn't there a third track that was in place between Myersdale & Sandpatch?
DASCO2136 2 years ago
Oh.....Do you know by some chance any CSX mainline where you see EMDs more often than GEs in drag service?
DASCO2136 2 years ago
Are stackers or autoracks allowed here?
railroader1993 2 years ago
"Are stackers or autoracks allowed here?"
Yes, we run autoracks all the time. There are very few cars/freight that can't fit the tunnels between Cumberland and Newcastle. There are some locations where there is close clearance for trains to pass, so some restricted freight can't be passed, but tunnels and bridges are good.
jediwise 2 years ago
Just asking- has anyone EVER seen an overpowered coal train ANYWHERE in the U.S.?
railroader1993 2 years ago
Does 3 units on a 150 car empty hopper train considered overpowered?
DASCO2136 2 years ago
That's the only thing that Chessie had, I swear
railroader1993 2 years ago
We run everything under the sun. With traffic down, you think there would be no locomotive availability issues, but I still get an occasional SD40 built in 1966 as my leader. I was born in 1970 for God's sake. I blew out the control stand and lost everything but headlights and radio in the middle of winter. I limped into Newcastle, PA (50 miles north of Pittsburgh) with no heat and freezing. Gotta love the power bureau.
jediwise 2 years ago
sand patch is amazing---well worth a rail fan's visit
pappy15445 2 years ago
NICE video, what particular spot is this along the Sand Patch grade? Havnt been out there yet but plan to soon so not very familair with the area. Also what is the grade at the steepest part?
keithLD50 2 years ago
keithLD50,
The shot of the truss bridge is on the west side of the Sandpatch grade, about 2 miles from the summit, so the train is obviously eastbound, headed for Cumberland. The bridge is near milepost BF 213, just 2 miles east of Meyersdale, PA. I have worked Cumberland to Newcastle for the last 10 years. So far as I know without looking it up, the steepest grade is 1.8%.
jediwise 2 years ago
Oh, and as for the GE vs. EMD/GM locos, I prefer the GE's. Most fellow engineers in Cumberland agree, but I'm sure there are EMD fans as well. The first GE hammers did have traction issues on the hill, but the pros outweigh the cons.
We also factor in more than just power and performance. I've spent over 20 hrs. in those cabs before, and I'll take a new GE any day. All widebodies are lousy for yard work because of the lag between throttle changes.
jediwise 3 years ago
Isnt EMDs more prefered for the heavy loaded drags that come over the hills to the west of Cumberland?
DASCO2136 2 years ago
Where in PA is this exactly?
Guser223 3 years ago
love the horn sound, and the coal trains as well. But there should been more horn.
floodedcar123 3 years ago
Interesting... are these lines bi-directional, or are there other lines going the other way?
Gordanovich 3 years ago
At least they still use SD50s & SD40-2s for helper assignments on Sand Patch
DASCO2136 3 years ago
What is that red glow starting at about 3:54? It starts out real faint, right under the second car. It stays in the same place, for a bit. It gets really bright, then it fades again. It actually stayed under the fifth car or so, moving with it, whereas it had remained stationary at first. It's real faint and hard to see at that point.
sunlitstormclouds 3 years ago
Thought it was camera glare, but then it starting moving.
sunlitstormclouds 3 years ago
Its glare from the headlight - its moving because, obviously the train is.
csxt6573 3 years ago
Is it just me, or does it always seem like most of the railroads or CSX & NS use EMD units for helpers...humm wonder why? Maybe they are more dependable than the GE's???
Great video and great shots! 5*****!
DJGENEX71 3 years ago
Hard core!
CoastStarlight11 3 years ago
EMD All the Way!!!!!!!!!!!
SkyhawkACE123 3 years ago
great video
5 stars and a favortie
goreds03 3 years ago
Great video...thanks for sharing this with all!!!
erielackawannaman 3 years ago
This is a great video. I'm planninga trip to Sand Patch next summer, I can't wait. This vid has got me ready to go now,lol. 5* rating!
pahogger 3 years ago
cool video, i never knew CSX had spirit of engines on EMD's
leejones2232 3 years ago
They put "The Spirit of Cumberland" on that locomotive beacuse it was their first SD70MAC
SkyhawkACE123 3 years ago
you know how much les motive power they would need if they used ac6000s
pengapop12 3 years ago
They would need more.... CSX crews have told me they were way too slippery! Evidently the mechanical forces agreed since CSX rebuilt all their AC6000CW's into 4400HP units.
csxt6573 3 years ago
Im going here next week!
sephdark471 3 years ago
The second coal train you caught is U306
GaithersburgRail 3 years ago
Way cool!! (Earthworm Jim).
HyperActive7 3 years ago
aw man great spot you got there keep up the awesome work!!
CSXMAN199 3 years ago
GE's sound the best when they are pulling up hill. No other locomotive can compete
RoDaddy7 3 years ago
yea theyre awesome
RRYankfan 3 years ago
i would be more that happy to see more of this because i find it very relaxing so if you have any more of trains going up the sandpatch like this i would be very greatful
RRYankfan 3 years ago
do youl ike the ac6000s
pengapop12 3 years ago
i love the sound of the EMDs working upgrade
RRYankfan 4 years ago
Very nice video, I especially liked the 3 helpers on the rear of the 1st Coal Drag @ 1:50. Do you know why 700 was renumbered to 4500 after the wreck?
I'm surprised you didn't see any foreign power that day, Sandpatch almost always gets foreign power leading courtesy of Brand X's chaotic style.
mjb430 4 years ago
It came back as 700, but 700, and all the other SD70AC's were renumbered somewhat recently into the 4500's to line up better with the other SD70-series engines on the roster, and I've noticed the newest batch of ES44's took the 700-series slot over. They were doing a bunch of track work between Garrett and Rockwood and the train counts were kinda low because of this. I was happy we didn't get a bunch of Foreign power since I live out west now and it's "normal" to me now, haha.
csxt6573 4 years ago
my favorites are the ac600s they huge
pengapop12 3 years ago
that is just a fantastic video.
ERIELACKU34CH 4 years ago
very Great, to heare the Sound of the very hard working Diesel Engines! The overtake is Wonderfull! I drive this Route by MSTS1-Trainsimulator
Greating's from Michael,Germany
Twostrokefan 4 years ago
wat route is this?
norfolkdash9 4 years ago
Sandpatch
sephdark471 3 years ago
oh ok thx
norfolkdash9 3 years ago
Wow...listen to those engines fighting that grade......that a lot of weight!!
Subaruguy8508 4 years ago
I liked the patch job on the 4500. You must have just noticed it when you panned.
NSHorseheadSD70 4 years ago
Actually, I was hoping the Spirit of Cumberland would come by, as I never got to see it as the 700 before it was wrecked, and about pooped myself when I ralized the 4500 was, the old 700.
csxt6573 4 years ago
Lucky you then. You could see where the 7 used to be and they added a 45 to it.
NSHorseheadSD70 4 years ago
Excellent job!
Hickler90 4 years ago
Absolutely fabulous!!!! That is eastern railroading at its very best. Great job! I notice that they don't have any of the GEVO's trying to do this route with the loaded coal trains. Love those SD70AC's.
bubba2781 4 years ago 4
Super video. This has actualy been shown in ModelRailroader as a potential small layout; with the steep grades...
bechho 4 years ago
Very nice work Mr. Adams. Quite the sound show.
ns2701 4 years ago
Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dutchtrainmanserie22 4 years ago
Man, those coal trains just crawl up that hill. How steep is the grade?
mafarnz 4 years ago
The grade runs from Salisbary jct to Sand Patch summit a distance of about 5-10 miles. It's not as steep as it's more famous counterpart the east slope but no helpers are required for eastbounds except for very heavy trains i believe
DASCO2136 4 years ago
Eastbound trains know when they start their day whether or not they'll need a helper eastbound over the grade. I get my helper on at Connelsville, PA (60 miles away from Sandpatch). We usually pull the head of the train through the Sandpatch tunnel (about 4600 ft. long) and have the helper cut off before descending the east slope down to Cumberland. The Cumberland side runs between 1.5 and 1.8 percent grade for 18 miles with a sag about halfway down.
jediwise 3 years ago
Great video. Damn you can get a lot of good action over back east
4449steam 4 years ago
Is it common for them to run more units at the end than at the point?
Ultimachamp 4 years ago
Those bad boys are LOADED!
Derailedtrain666 4 years ago