I liked Adams better at least he was consistent with what he believed as opposed to Jefferson who wanted to be like the French. Adams put his career on the line to keep the US out of war.
I must admit without the these men, most of us might never have existed or at least be even close to where we are today, God Bless these men who fought, defended, and gave us the rights we have today in a free country!
The restoration of this friendship is one of the greatest in history. Although both came from extremely different backgrounds, political opinions, regions of the country they both were arguably the most monumental figures in the Revolution, among the Founding Fathers. It is more than fitting, thanks to the grace of God, that they both died on the 50th Anniversary of July 4th, 1826. A story only history could tell to the ages.
@Justbeatit999 Uhhhh... no. Jefferson supported war with France. Paul is anti-war. Jefferson owned slaves. Paul would probably eschew the practice and decry it. Jefferson was liberal in the sense that, like this video shows, "the earth belongs to the living" while Adams defended the writings and accomplishments of older generations, believing them as well to be of importance. Paul and Jefferson can be compared in their reverence for the constitution, but little else.
Stannis Baratheon is a character from George RR Martin's books A Song of Ice and Fire and is portrayed by Stephen Dillane in the HBO series called Game of Thrones.
At a 1962 dinner for 49 Nobel laureates, President John F. Kennedy quipped that the event was "the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever gathered at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."
Is anyone familiar with Socionics (or MBTI behavioral psychology)? Thomas Jefferson was likely an INTj, and Adams an ENTj. This explains their duality perfectly. Hamilton and Washington were likely ESTj.
I'm opposed to the Federal government but I'm also an anti-constitutionalist. The Constitution was a bold and honest experiment in freedom, but if there is anything we have learned, it's that the government, by it's nature, will not heed contractual limitations. Interpretation of the constitution rests in the hands of the government, so the movement of law will always tend toward the favor of State Power. Slowly at first, and then it snowballs until we arrive at the avalanche we have today.
Very soon after watching "John Adams" I saw some of "Jefferson in Paris." Big, big drop from Stephen Dillane's Jefferson to Nick Nolte's. Nolte's Jefferson isn't nearly smart enough. When Dillane's Jefferson speaks you sense a powerful, original mind. When Nolte's Jefferson says something smart he sounds like a dumb guy who memorized what a smart guy told him.
For all I know Mr. Nolte may in fact be a very intelligent man, but that's not what he projects in his roles.
There are many great clips our finest president in this montage, but I feel that it is missing the most important, that in which Adams and Jefferson in a dark room are arguing about the French Revolution, and Jefferson scolds Adams saying that the two revolutions "are the same!" revolution. A fantastic point. France and the US were and continue to be not two separate nations of different peoples, but two nations of people who deserve the same liberty.
There is no question Jefferson was the greatest founding father. He unselfishly seen his position as the responsibility of preserving the freedoms of every individual born and unborn in the nation. While others wanted unbridled power. Washington could be considered the same. But Washington was not one of the founding fathers. He was too busy kicking the shit out of Great Britain.
I loved the depiction of Thomas Jefferson in this series, by far history's greatest red-head! ;-) [Besides maybe Winston Churchill in his younger days!].
Churchill said: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
Had he been alive, Jefferson would have verbally bitch-slapped him for saying that, seeing how much better the true republic Jefferson had helped create was, compared to the mob rule of democracy.
I confess I was merely referencing their hair colour from their younger days though, not necessarily their politics. Jefferson was a child of the Enlightenment; while Churchill was really quite reactionary and regressive in some of his views. I agree though that TJ stands tall in history for standing up and expressing (maybe more articulately than anyone else) the merits of popular democracy over a self-interested elite.
Churchill and Jefferson had very different skill sets. If my country were fighting a desperate war for its very existence I'd go with Churchill but then replace him with Jefferson as soon as the war was over. The British voters of Churchill's time apparently agreed with me. They voted him out the first chance they got after the war.
@keithsmd1948 They got rid of him because they were sick of war. He wanted to help the US finish the war with Japan. The people said no. That is a key distinction.
Also, it was not Chruchill that defended anything. It was the people of the country that did. Some empty suit in London did not alone prevent Germany from defeating Britain.
The British needed Churchill about as much as America needed FDR. Which is to say: they didn't need him at all and would have been better off without him.
Harsh. Of course neither Churchill nor FDR was absolutely needed: if it hadn't been them it would have been others. There is, however, no denying the importance of leadership. You might say that Wellington and Nelson didn't win the battles of Waterloo and Trafalgar, their men did, but other leaders might have achieved less, even with the same soldiers and sailors.
@keithsmd1948 Yeah... You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm Anarcho-capitalist. There is no necessity for government in best or worst of times. It's the people that put the time and work in and they don't need central tyrants to "lead" them.
Jefferson was very near anarchist himself. This is what makes him a better man than the statist Churchill.
We might well discuss how much government we need, but no serious person can argue that we need none at all. We have to decide whether we're going to drive on the left or right side of the road. Either side is fine, but once the decision is made we all have to abide by it. If everyone drove on whichever side he wanted we'd all get killed.
@keithsmd1948 I don't agree at all sir. It's not a left vs right of debate needed now. We need to establish the fact that in all things political the true conflict is between liberty and authority, as far as federal and state government is concerned. That being domestic, foreign, monetary and law policies. Once those boundries are set, then we can get to the more impractical, agressive and taxing left vs right debate which is keepting the status quo. Look how far that's gotten us.
I wasn't speaking figuratively when I said we need to decide whether we'll drive on the left or right. I meant we have to decide whether we're going to drive our literal cars on the left like the Japanese or on the right like the Swiss, my point being that we must make some decisions collectively. Very superficially we sacrifice some liberty, but in fact our store of liberty is increased because we can drive more safely, even if perhaps not on our preferred side of the road.
@keithsmd1948 Well, then you were speaking figuratively. But there is nothing metaphorical needed. We do make our decisions collectivly, or as collectively as we can with democracy. The problem with that is people are out for themselves or easily fall for the propaganda of an ideology. Democracy is basically mob rule, especially without liberty by law. If you're saying 300 million plus should make a collective dicision and agree, you need to realize it's impossible that is and always will be.
@keithsmd1948 On top of that, you say the sacrifice of liberty is superficial in this utopian concept of everyone agreeing on picking a side, collectively is necessary. If that is truely your train of thought and you are a voter, the battle is lost already. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin.
@keithsmd1948 The owners of the road would decide which side people drive one... or if people drive on them at all. Government is absolutely not necessary. Read, "The Market For Liberty" by Morris and Linda Tannehill. It explains, in undebatable logic, why government is completely unnecessary in all forms.
@keithsmd1948 The owner of a road, or more precisely a section of it, is those who can and do make a claim to it first. This is no more ridiculous than claiming to own any property today, that has no government title. Governments don't, and can't, bestow ownership. The Tannehills devote an entire section discussing things like roads, water and air as potential privately owned properties.
The basic gist of the book is that private business can replace government agencies, across the board.
But there may be several claims, so there has to be an orderly process to settle precedence among them, unless you just want to have the claimants shoot it out.
@keithsmd1948 If there was dispute over private property claims in an anarchist society, it would simply go to an arbitration court (private business) agreed upon by all parties. They would sign contractual agreements to abide by the arbiter's ruling.
I'll not go on to explain these things in detail. EVERY one of these things is covered by the Tannehills using bulletproof logic.
I mentioned the audiobook... there's also a PDF available:
@keithsmd1948 Forgot to mention, "The Market For Liberty" audiobook is available for free at freekeene(dot)com/2007/12/26/free-audiobook-the-market-for-liberty/
There is no reason why this book cannot be read (listened to).
Further, not reading (listening to) it only deprives yourself of the point of view of the people you are or, potentially, will be, debating. I know your views. I once held those views. I've since heard better ideas and know why they are better.
@OconByrd519 The tea party has merely extended longevity and breathed new life into Jeffersonian views on Democracy and freedom. The opposition seeks to quelch and destroy it.
@crb4059 The Tea party supports Sarah Palin who supports illegal wars and wars of aggression. Sarah Palin and the neo-cons have hijacked the mainstream Tea Party movement.
Where John Adams began to get schooled is at 4:35 "You are trampling on The Constitution". Dr.Ron Paul is the reincarnation of Thomas Jefferson. Long Live The Ron Paul Revolution!
@pweeclassic84 oh yeah oops sorry i forgot about them and no actually the war isn't fake. There's a lot of drugs going around and because my school is so close we have random drug testing at the districts high school. But the war is no where near fake, it's real 100% real and it's also pretty scary.
@ilikemnms202 Your entire life would not exist in nearly as comfortable or free a fashion if it weren't for these men, you unappreciative little whelp. They're giants compared to the likes of you and me. Show the proper respect for these pioneers.
@Pilaf1984 well i'm in middle school this was homework and i don't really like watching history because then it makes me realize how bad life used to be back during the civil war and during the great depression and during the american revolution. It reminds of all the war it took to be able to live happily and it makes me upset thinking about all the americans died for it and many lives ruined because of it. I greatly appreciate all that they did so i can leave here nicely.
@Pilaf1984 even still after they did i live in south texas near the border and i dont feel very safe all that's going on in Mexico and being so close and my school being so close and knowing that police have busted houses in my very neighborhood for being stash houses. I don't feel like i'm living in the most perfect environment right now. To me without Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, Mirabeau Lamar, the Texas Rangers, without them I'd be in Mexico trying to not get killed.
@BranIL28 notice JA"s face after TJ made that comment, how sad is it that adams would reply with "you would silence me over the voice of the people" this just shows that even in the early days of our country politics was a us vs them mentality
When will the modern people realize the firmness and true meaning of the philosophy of the founding fathers. This is what America was, naturally it is what it should be.
I would love to see this actor do another hbo miniseries about Jefferson. Especially with these actors playing the same parts and with the same director. any thumbs up in agreement ?
"The Earth belongs to the living" was original content to the James Madison letter not with Adams and Franklin over a happy intermezzo, by the way Jefferson's actor is too flamboyant for the real TJ.
Although Jefferson was a great thinker and a visionary, we shouldn't forget he was a also a hypocrite. In the original draft of the Decleration, he railed against slavery but owned dozens of slaves himself. He knew the moral evils of slavery yet on his deathbed, he still refused to free his slaves. He was not a perfect man by any stretch of the imagination.
@rnross True, but one must wonder if he had freed all his slaves what sort of position they would find themselves in. Keep in mind that even after the official end of slavery that blacks were still very much in a position of subjugation. It wasn't until the civil rights movement of the 1960's that black obtained true equality with whites. I think this illustrates perfectly that no man can be truly free until he frees himself and I think Jefferson understood that.
@rnross Yes, like all humans he was not perfect. Ridding our nation of slavery at that time was also a political impossibility. Jefferson was wise enough to realize that politics is the art of the POSSIBLE, not what was morally right & impossible at the time. Mentioning slavery would have easily derailed the newly written Declaration. Luckily for us they left any mention of slavery out and got the support of the South.
@noyouaintgettingit wrong, he was out of his element as president. he ended up empowering the presidency because of his vested interest in it and contradicted the regionalist philosophy he held his whole life. He is still the greatest example of america's core values.
Andrew Jackson?! He was a pretty evil man. He was John Quincy Adams' (Adams son) hated enemy. Quincy was a better president than he gets credited for.
@Yoseman1 Jackson wasn't evil... he was however a product of his time, but by no means evil. His displacement of native and support of slavery was a bit much, but very common then.
@Yoseman1 He might of had a temper, but he knew what he was doing. Getting rid of the National Bank is something Jefferson would of done around the same time period if not earlier. Jefferson was right and such a thing was destroying the nation, just as the Federal Reserve is today. Now, I disagree with Jacksons handling of the Indians, but other then that I believe he was a good president.
@noyouaintgettingit I hate to be nitpicky, but while Jefferson was a tremendous American and did many great things for this country, he was a LOUSY president. He wanted his greatest accomplishments to be put on his tombstone. Being the Third president of the United States was not put on his tomb. I wonder why. His second term of presidency broke him. The people hated him. Look up the "Embargo Act". I'm not saying I hate Jefferson. He was a brilliant American, but a lousy president.
@CardingtonLZF Abe Lincoln was a tyrant and has no business being on Mt. Rushmore. He prevented people from voicing their opinions against the war, blockaded the south (before there was ever war) and above all did not free A SINGLE slave. Lincoln is a joke and no one should ever put him anywhere close to the greatness of Jefferson.
it's quite amazing that Adams and Jefferson died on the same day, same month and year., Yet, they were never friends, always foes. But they both believed in the cause of freedom for the colonies. they just went about that in different ways. Jefferson being from Virginia and Adams being from Massachusetts
@Irishrose2966. Actually, they were friends. They became friends and political allies during the Revolutionary period. When Adams was President, he followed the Federalist model whilst Jefferson was "correctly" a proponent for a Republic. The Federalists favored and practiced too much "British" establishments and this is why their friendship fell apart; they then became "political foes." Years after Jefferson's presidency, they re-established their friendship in letter-writing from 1812-1826.
seriously one of the greatest and most understated performances ive ever seen, stephen dillane is amazing, perfectly captures jeffersons quiet charisma.
@WiseGuy5674 they clearly went to great lengths to get the depictions right. If you look at 1:12 you will see Jefferson sits in a particularly bizarre and contorted manner yet always stands bolt upright. If you read Joseph Ellis' biography of Jefferson (American Sphinx) you'll find he discusses the contradictory reports of Jefferson's posture and concludes that this folded-when-sitting, upright-when-standing is the only way to square them. HBO even got the way the founding fathers SAT right.
@trocknickel Apparently you don't, but when it comes to me (someone who takes historical accuracy very seriously in my work) I do. Ya that is my example of inaccuracy. That's a very important detail to miss out on. That's also the key reason why Thomas Jefferson only gave TWO speeched during his time as the president.
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity.”—John Adams to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813--John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1856), Vol. X, pp. 45-46
@timcp1 "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”-- Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson (Washington D. C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIII, p. 292-294. In a letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813.
Indeed, I also feel that Ron Paul is the Thomas Jefferson of the day. Although many have been fallaciously lead to believe otherwise, Jefferson was indeed a Christian... as were all of the founders. As President, Jefferson called for 8 years of weekly Sunday, Christian church service within the House of Representatives. But Jefferson's political thinking was often unorthodox to the mainstream Christian political thinking which was represented more by Adams & Washington. As an
@Chuichupachichi The idea that Jefferson was a Christian is widely up for debate. Look up "Deism in the United States" on wikipedia and then go look through sources 35-42 for more detail on that.
Then there's the fact that the Texas board of Education apparently doesn't think so, because they're dumbing down his influence in shaping the USA in their textbooks. *eyeroll.*
example, Ron Paul, although a Christian, espouses views such as legalizing drugs. Very unorthodox to mainstream Christian political thinking. But he arrives at it from his Christian mind, nonetheless... as did Jefferson his views. Ron Paul believes that the government cannot & should not dictate morality to the people. Although all legislation is somebody's morality... that's inescapable. But God informs humanity of what is right & what is wrong, then affords man "freewill". Even God doesn't
force anyone to behave rightly. "Freewill" sounds very American to me. "freedom", "liberty", "freewill". People need to be freely convinced of right. Nevertheless, not all things can be made legal. Some things infringe upon the rights of others. People have the right to raise children & be in public without their children witnessing prostitution. At very least, keep it "on the other side of the tracks". Or in St. Louis, the river. Ron Paul sees drugs as a different issue simply because the
Federal government is the nation's Kingpin. Thus, the reason why they keep it illegal is because that makes the price exorbitant. The fact is that users are rarely the murderers & violent criminals. Its those who joust for the big dollars that engage in violent, drug related crimes. Legalization would eliminate that crime. Illicit drugs would simply be as any other pharmaceutical, sold at Rite Aid. Children wouldn't see street corner pushers anymore. The problem is that many people perceive
"legal" as meaning right or Ok. Thus, would more children be inclined to begin using? I don't know but I do know that the forbidden arouses much curiosity. Ultimately, John Adams was correct in stating; "our Constitution was created for a religious & moral people, it is wholly inadequate to the government of any other". It grants so much liberty that it requires people who will police themselves... even when nobody is looking. We take many security measures, in many ways, regarding many things
If people could contain altered states of mind within their heads & not ever let it be outwardly recognizable from thieving, violent or other wrongful behaviors, then most people wouldn't mind if recreational substances were to alone, be able to sustain Rite Aid. If the oligarchy stopped addicting people from childhood to the mental danger of "sensational stimulation", then chemical stimulants might be used for a prolonged focusing on important & intellectually stimulating information.
The oligarchy has been intentionally manufacturing dunce people, addicted to sensational stimulation. They're rarely interested in any information or knowledge of true value. Anything that requires turning the cranial gears, is a huge turn off to them & these things are often conducive of crime. Thug & sinister are popular culture & crime is in itself sensational stimulation. Since its not physically ingested they're not even aware of their severe addiction or of its effects. In all major cities
"cannot protect the nation by attacking the right of every man to speak freely without fear" amen bro....politicians of the world, heed the wise words of a wise man!
I haven't seen the whole series, but the one thing I can't get over is Jefferson's comment, "I have no gift for oratory," and yet in most scenes he is expounding his views most eloquently. Obviously that is because the miniseries presents each man voicing his words aloud, rather than in the innumerable letters from which they were culled. Not that our founding brothers weren't inclined to pontificate now and again, but it does seem slightly unnatural.
"And I shall miss yours Mrs. Adams..!" Thomas Jefferson was a very likable man when he was happy. : ) As a person, Thomas Jefferson was a very humble, pleasant, sentimental man. I believe he changed a bit much after his wife died because he decided to avoid pain instead of get through it. Because of that, he stopped opening up his heart and used his mind.
the actor though looks and sounds very much like George Harrison.
maxten 2 weeks ago
The art of life quote is my favourite quote..ever.
Flash88ism 2 weeks ago
I liked Adams better at least he was consistent with what he believed as opposed to Jefferson who wanted to be like the French. Adams put his career on the line to keep the US out of war.
crackmonster99 1 month ago
John Adams was the first of many good man who was corrupted by the Washington DC cocoon
apnwahoowa 1 month ago
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I must admit without the these men, most of us might never have existed or at least be even close to where we are today, God Bless these men who fought, defended, and gave us the rights we have today in a free country!
tigre15WI 2 months ago
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tigre15WI 2 months ago
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RON PAUL 2012
End the Wars. Bring Peace.
Thomasjefferson69 2 months ago
3:20 Albert Einstien.
ImmaSigner 2 months ago
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ImmaSigner 2 months ago
What I would give to sit at a table with those three for a good debate.
chicagomike88 2 months ago 3
The restoration of this friendship is one of the greatest in history. Although both came from extremely different backgrounds, political opinions, regions of the country they both were arguably the most monumental figures in the Revolution, among the Founding Fathers. It is more than fitting, thanks to the grace of God, that they both died on the 50th Anniversary of July 4th, 1826. A story only history could tell to the ages.
rockndude87 3 months ago
Stannis Baratheon!
DukeTheGold 3 months ago
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jefferson was a sick fascist
CaligirlSofia 3 months ago
@CaligirlSofia jefferson had some serious political and personal issues that history as a disciplne glosses over. he lived like a Southern boss. lol
leeleec27 3 months ago
@CaligirlSofia yaya. go get a job.
spyletu 3 months ago
@spyletu i already have one, why dont you get one instead of worshipping a psychotic and mentally ill fascist who raped a little girl
CaligirlSofia 3 months ago
@CaligirlSofia Red herring
chicagomike88 2 months ago
I gotta say, if I was sportin' around a wig like that..I'd atleast have cigars stored in those curls.
WiseGuy5674 4 months ago 5
If this had been a theatrical movie, it would have swept the Oscars
jaredabccrisscross 4 months ago 4
Thumbs up if Stannis brought you here.
drocto21 5 months ago 3
Wanna see todays version of Jefferson? Look not further then Ron Paul!
Justbeatit999 5 months ago 2
@Justbeatit999
No...
AmericanNohbuddy 4 months ago 2
@Justbeatit999 It's true! Paul 2012!
WintersAscension 4 months ago
@Justbeatit999 Uhhhh... no. Jefferson supported war with France. Paul is anti-war. Jefferson owned slaves. Paul would probably eschew the practice and decry it. Jefferson was liberal in the sense that, like this video shows, "the earth belongs to the living" while Adams defended the writings and accomplishments of older generations, believing them as well to be of importance. Paul and Jefferson can be compared in their reverence for the constitution, but little else.
McCathcon 3 months ago in playlist Politics
@McCathcon actually jefferson supported france, but to go to war with france, he liked france, alexander hamilton was the one who hated them,
CaligirlSofia 3 months ago
About Lincoln, hindsight is always 20-20.
tedh754 5 months ago
Most ingenious. One of the most controversial documents in the room and Benjamin Franklin is astounded by with the chair. Lol
chubakalabra 5 months ago 6
Stannis in the house!
Nuke1096 6 months ago
This shit is hilarious
couldcause 6 months ago
I dont know if anyone has mentioned this but... STAAAANNNISSSS!!!!!!
Wezzipooh 6 months ago
stannis baratheon!
imkeithan 6 months ago 5
Jefferson is Stannis Baratheon!
Icegaze88 6 months ago 43
@Icegaze88 whos baratheon
fdny9682 6 months ago
@fdny9682
Stannis Baratheon is a character from George RR Martin's books A Song of Ice and Fire and is portrayed by Stephen Dillane in the HBO series called Game of Thrones.
Icegaze88 6 months ago
@Icegaze88 Indeed...
FutureMarine1775USA 1 month ago
@Icegaze88 FUCK YES!!! Ours is the Fury!
lanebatts26 6 days ago
He may have had slaves but this man fought for liberties to the best olf his abilities in a very dark time in US history.
MTF907 6 months ago
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He's talking about the chair!
Jemmer1000 7 months ago
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Jemmer1000 7 months ago
At a 1962 dinner for 49 Nobel laureates, President John F. Kennedy quipped that the event was "the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever gathered at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."
espada9 7 months ago 11
(One Free Nation (((Not))) Under God)
MagicTellaVision 7 months ago
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dmax631 7 months ago
Jefferson is God
GenerallyhappyX0 8 months ago
Dillane did great in this miniseries. He portrayed Jefferson as he was: brooding, introverted, radical, and brilliant.
No wonder women loved him (the actor and the character!).
Trinity61 8 months ago 41
@Trinity61
Very true; he did a great job as Jefferson.
Is anyone familiar with Socionics (or MBTI behavioral psychology)? Thomas Jefferson was likely an INTj, and Adams an ENTj. This explains their duality perfectly. Hamilton and Washington were likely ESTj.
FranG1214 5 months ago
@Trinity61 It is so interesting how a man could be so radical and introverted at the same time. There's a lot to admire in a man like that.
AnchorsAweigh2010 1 month ago
I'm opposed to the Federal government but I'm also an anti-constitutionalist. The Constitution was a bold and honest experiment in freedom, but if there is anything we have learned, it's that the government, by it's nature, will not heed contractual limitations. Interpretation of the constitution rests in the hands of the government, so the movement of law will always tend toward the favor of State Power. Slowly at first, and then it snowballs until we arrive at the avalanche we have today.
PoetsLight 8 months ago
@PoetsLight What other method would you suggest?
RJhasFLOW 8 months ago
This series was amazing but Thomas Jefferson was the most amazing part of it.
PoetsLight 8 months ago 3
Stephen Dillane looked like and made a great Jefferson persona in this series. He also happens to be sexy!!
MidnightWriter8210 8 months ago
They should have named the show... "John Adams, the story of Thomas Jefferson".
wyattbutler87 9 months ago 3
should of done a series on Sam Adams
oldschool233 9 months ago
Very soon after watching "John Adams" I saw some of "Jefferson in Paris." Big, big drop from Stephen Dillane's Jefferson to Nick Nolte's. Nolte's Jefferson isn't nearly smart enough. When Dillane's Jefferson speaks you sense a powerful, original mind. When Nolte's Jefferson says something smart he sounds like a dumb guy who memorized what a smart guy told him.
For all I know Mr. Nolte may in fact be a very intelligent man, but that's not what he projects in his roles.
keithsmd1948 10 months ago
After watching this series I am without words to describe Jefferson. The man is one of if not the greatest mind in American political thought
Hightech90 10 months ago
There are many great clips our finest president in this montage, but I feel that it is missing the most important, that in which Adams and Jefferson in a dark room are arguing about the French Revolution, and Jefferson scolds Adams saying that the two revolutions "are the same!" revolution. A fantastic point. France and the US were and continue to be not two separate nations of different peoples, but two nations of people who deserve the same liberty.
charlesgroce 10 months ago
There is no question Jefferson was the greatest founding father. He unselfishly seen his position as the responsibility of preserving the freedoms of every individual born and unborn in the nation. While others wanted unbridled power. Washington could be considered the same. But Washington was not one of the founding fathers. He was too busy kicking the shit out of Great Britain.
SuperGuitarman69 10 months ago
Excellent movie! Stephen Dillane did such a brilliant job portraying my fave president!
reznut 11 months ago
aaah well, time to go fuck a slave...
mammers11 11 months ago
I loved the depiction of Thomas Jefferson in this series, by far history's greatest red-head! ;-) [Besides maybe Winston Churchill in his younger days!].
DirectingJack 11 months ago
@DirectingJack Churchill holds no candle to Jefferson.
Churchill said: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
Had he been alive, Jefferson would have verbally bitch-slapped him for saying that, seeing how much better the true republic Jefferson had helped create was, compared to the mob rule of democracy.
strych97 10 months ago 2
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DirectingJack 10 months ago
@strych97 Thanks for your reply to my comment!
I confess I was merely referencing their hair colour from their younger days though, not necessarily their politics. Jefferson was a child of the Enlightenment; while Churchill was really quite reactionary and regressive in some of his views. I agree though that TJ stands tall in history for standing up and expressing (maybe more articulately than anyone else) the merits of popular democracy over a self-interested elite.
DirectingJack 10 months ago
@strych97
Churchill and Jefferson had very different skill sets. If my country were fighting a desperate war for its very existence I'd go with Churchill but then replace him with Jefferson as soon as the war was over. The British voters of Churchill's time apparently agreed with me. They voted him out the first chance they got after the war.
keithsmd1948 10 months ago
@keithsmd1948 They got rid of him because they were sick of war. He wanted to help the US finish the war with Japan. The people said no. That is a key distinction.
Also, it was not Chruchill that defended anything. It was the people of the country that did. Some empty suit in London did not alone prevent Germany from defeating Britain.
The British needed Churchill about as much as America needed FDR. Which is to say: they didn't need him at all and would have been better off without him.
strych97 10 months ago
@strych97
Harsh. Of course neither Churchill nor FDR was absolutely needed: if it hadn't been them it would have been others. There is, however, no denying the importance of leadership. You might say that Wellington and Nelson didn't win the battles of Waterloo and Trafalgar, their men did, but other leaders might have achieved less, even with the same soldiers and sailors.
keithsmd1948 10 months ago
@keithsmd1948 Yeah... You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm Anarcho-capitalist. There is no necessity for government in best or worst of times. It's the people that put the time and work in and they don't need central tyrants to "lead" them.
Jefferson was very near anarchist himself. This is what makes him a better man than the statist Churchill.
strych97 10 months ago
@strych97
We might well discuss how much government we need, but no serious person can argue that we need none at all. We have to decide whether we're going to drive on the left or right side of the road. Either side is fine, but once the decision is made we all have to abide by it. If everyone drove on whichever side he wanted we'd all get killed.
keithsmd1948 10 months ago
@keithsmd1948 I don't agree at all sir. It's not a left vs right of debate needed now. We need to establish the fact that in all things political the true conflict is between liberty and authority, as far as federal and state government is concerned. That being domestic, foreign, monetary and law policies. Once those boundries are set, then we can get to the more impractical, agressive and taxing left vs right debate which is keepting the status quo. Look how far that's gotten us.
joker52mlb 10 months ago
@joker52mlb
I wasn't speaking figuratively when I said we need to decide whether we'll drive on the left or right. I meant we have to decide whether we're going to drive our literal cars on the left like the Japanese or on the right like the Swiss, my point being that we must make some decisions collectively. Very superficially we sacrifice some liberty, but in fact our store of liberty is increased because we can drive more safely, even if perhaps not on our preferred side of the road.
keithsmd1948 10 months ago
@keithsmd1948 Well, then you were speaking figuratively. But there is nothing metaphorical needed. We do make our decisions collectivly, or as collectively as we can with democracy. The problem with that is people are out for themselves or easily fall for the propaganda of an ideology. Democracy is basically mob rule, especially without liberty by law. If you're saying 300 million plus should make a collective dicision and agree, you need to realize it's impossible that is and always will be.
joker52mlb 10 months ago
@keithsmd1948 On top of that, you say the sacrifice of liberty is superficial in this utopian concept of everyone agreeing on picking a side, collectively is necessary. If that is truely your train of thought and you are a voter, the battle is lost already. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin.
joker52mlb 10 months ago
@keithsmd1948 The owners of the road would decide which side people drive one... or if people drive on them at all. Government is absolutely not necessary. Read, "The Market For Liberty" by Morris and Linda Tannehill. It explains, in undebatable logic, why government is completely unnecessary in all forms.
strych97 10 months ago
@strych97
Who owns the road if there are no laws of property? The term "owner" presupposes a government that defines and enforces property rights.
Thanks for the tip about the Tannehill's book. No promises when, but I'll try to give it a look.
keithsmd1948 10 months ago
@keithsmd1948 The owner of a road, or more precisely a section of it, is those who can and do make a claim to it first. This is no more ridiculous than claiming to own any property today, that has no government title. Governments don't, and can't, bestow ownership. The Tannehills devote an entire section discussing things like roads, water and air as potential privately owned properties.
The basic gist of the book is that private business can replace government agencies, across the board.
strych97 10 months ago
@strych97
But there may be several claims, so there has to be an orderly process to settle precedence among them, unless you just want to have the claimants shoot it out.
keithsmd1948 10 months ago
@keithsmd1948 If there was dispute over private property claims in an anarchist society, it would simply go to an arbitration court (private business) agreed upon by all parties. They would sign contractual agreements to abide by the arbiter's ruling.
I'll not go on to explain these things in detail. EVERY one of these things is covered by the Tannehills using bulletproof logic.
I mentioned the audiobook... there's also a PDF available:
freekeene(dot)com/files/marketforliberty.pdf
strych97 10 months ago
@keithsmd1948 Forgot to mention, "The Market For Liberty" audiobook is available for free at freekeene(dot)com/2007/12/26/free-audiobook-the-market-for-liberty/
There is no reason why this book cannot be read (listened to).
Further, not reading (listening to) it only deprives yourself of the point of view of the people you are or, potentially, will be, debating. I know your views. I once held those views. I've since heard better ideas and know why they are better.
Can you say the same?
strych97 10 months ago
Podcast the "Thomas Jefferson Hour" it is an excellent podcast if you would like to know more about TJ
skydive7273x 11 months ago
Jefferson´s the fu$#in bomb, dudez.
RideMyBMW 11 months ago
Tea Party folks take note: Thomas Jefferson spoke 6 languages and loved all things French!
OconByrd519 1 year ago
@OconByrd519 The tea party has merely extended longevity and breathed new life into Jeffersonian views on Democracy and freedom. The opposition seeks to quelch and destroy it.
crb4059 1 year ago
@crb4059 The Tea party supports Sarah Palin who supports illegal wars and wars of aggression. Sarah Palin and the neo-cons have hijacked the mainstream Tea Party movement.
Jononutoob 11 months ago 2
@Jononutoob And don't forget central banks either!
MPP316 11 months ago
@MPP316 How could I forget?
Jononutoob 11 months ago
Where John Adams began to get schooled is at 4:35 "You are trampling on The Constitution". Dr.Ron Paul is the reincarnation of Thomas Jefferson. Long Live The Ron Paul Revolution!
DanielDamascusKimery 1 year ago
Oh, where are men like this today? We are surrounded by puppets and charlatans.
astraiiia 1 year ago
@pweeclassic84 oh yeah oops sorry i forgot about them and no actually the war isn't fake. There's a lot of drugs going around and because my school is so close we have random drug testing at the districts high school. But the war is no where near fake, it's real 100% real and it's also pretty scary.
ilikemnms202 1 year ago
6 mins of my life i will never get back (before you comment on if i didnt like it why watch it well because it was homework)
ilikemnms202 1 year ago
@ilikemnms202 You must be really young to not appreciate this.
Falcon988 1 year ago
@Falcon988 try middle school
ilikemnms202 1 year ago
@ilikemnms202 As I said! I didn't like this stuff either in 6th - 8th grade. Rewatch it in College, you might like it better
Falcon988 1 year ago
@Falcon988 probably...
ilikemnms202 1 year ago
@ilikemnms202 Your entire life would not exist in nearly as comfortable or free a fashion if it weren't for these men, you unappreciative little whelp. They're giants compared to the likes of you and me. Show the proper respect for these pioneers.
Pilaf1984 1 year ago
@Pilaf1984 well i'm in middle school this was homework and i don't really like watching history because then it makes me realize how bad life used to be back during the civil war and during the great depression and during the american revolution. It reminds of all the war it took to be able to live happily and it makes me upset thinking about all the americans died for it and many lives ruined because of it. I greatly appreciate all that they did so i can leave here nicely.
ilikemnms202 1 year ago
@Pilaf1984 even still after they did i live in south texas near the border and i dont feel very safe all that's going on in Mexico and being so close and my school being so close and knowing that police have busted houses in my very neighborhood for being stash houses. I don't feel like i'm living in the most perfect environment right now. To me without Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, Mirabeau Lamar, the Texas Rangers, without them I'd be in Mexico trying to not get killed.
ilikemnms202 1 year ago
@ilikemnms202 go stalk justin bieber or some more you little shit.
samm1809 1 year ago
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ilikemnms202 1 year ago
You’re trampling on the constitution....!!
BranIL28 1 year ago
@BranIL28 notice JA"s face after TJ made that comment, how sad is it that adams would reply with "you would silence me over the voice of the people" this just shows that even in the early days of our country politics was a us vs them mentality
prowlifik 1 year ago
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BranIL28 1 year ago
When will the modern people realize the firmness and true meaning of the philosophy of the founding fathers. This is what America was, naturally it is what it should be.
CitizenJohnSmith 1 year ago
I would love to see this actor do another hbo miniseries about Jefferson. Especially with these actors playing the same parts and with the same director. any thumbs up in agreement ?
Hobgoblin1975 1 year ago 5
"The Earth belongs to the living" was original content to the James Madison letter not with Adams and Franklin over a happy intermezzo, by the way Jefferson's actor is too flamboyant for the real TJ.
LewisMarkMonticello 1 year ago
@LewisMarkMonticello ..the man spent alot of time in France.
Its not unreasonable to portray him as flamboyant.
WiseGuy5674 1 year ago
Although Jefferson was a great thinker and a visionary, we shouldn't forget he was a also a hypocrite. In the original draft of the Decleration, he railed against slavery but owned dozens of slaves himself. He knew the moral evils of slavery yet on his deathbed, he still refused to free his slaves. He was not a perfect man by any stretch of the imagination.
rnross 1 year ago
@rnross True, but one must wonder if he had freed all his slaves what sort of position they would find themselves in. Keep in mind that even after the official end of slavery that blacks were still very much in a position of subjugation. It wasn't until the civil rights movement of the 1960's that black obtained true equality with whites. I think this illustrates perfectly that no man can be truly free until he frees himself and I think Jefferson understood that.
Imperitor2 1 year ago
@rnross Yes, like all humans he was not perfect. Ridding our nation of slavery at that time was also a political impossibility. Jefferson was wise enough to realize that politics is the art of the POSSIBLE, not what was morally right & impossible at the time. Mentioning slavery would have easily derailed the newly written Declaration. Luckily for us they left any mention of slavery out and got the support of the South.
Jeff4824 1 year ago
@rnross I like him and it was a different time.
jwj1847 1 year ago
@rnross I think the fact that he was aware of the imperfections of himself and man itself played a role in his view of limited government
fdny9682 1 year ago
Jefferson: *raises glass as if to toast* "To the Revolution"
Adams: Who's?
Jefferson: They are one and the same John! Are they not?
Mike32587 1 year ago
The epitome of cool.
rawrimaprick 1 year ago
they are realy good actors
hersan33 1 year ago
His legacy is now in vain... Or is it?
brandomaster90 1 year ago
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azumpxo 1 year ago
"this thing is amazing! what the hell is it?!??!"
"oh you like it? i just pulled the room apart."
god i love jefferson.
samm1809 1 year ago 3
Oh come on, i thought one of the better scenes was when Adams, Hamilton and Jefferson were talking over a table in the court yard.
s0beit 1 year ago
Thomas Jefferson was the best president the United States ever had.
noyouaintgettingit 1 year ago 53
@noyouaintgettingit It's nice to hear someone else say it.
Wulfiebaby 1 year ago
@noyouaintgettingit wrong, he was out of his element as president. he ended up empowering the presidency because of his vested interest in it and contradicted the regionalist philosophy he held his whole life. He is still the greatest example of america's core values.
CDanielzSpecialist 1 year ago
@noyouaintgettingit Im torn between Jefferson and Paine
shawndimery 11 months ago
@noyouaintgettingit
Hmmm...the U.S.A. has had a few best Presidents! :-) I quite like Ol' Hickory Andrew Jackson at the moment.
DirectingJack 11 months ago
@noyouaintgettingit He was good, but I would say Andrew Jackson was our best. I like Jefferson best as a founding father and revolutionary.
HansBooBee 10 months ago
@HansBooBee
Andrew Jackson?! He was a pretty evil man. He was John Quincy Adams' (Adams son) hated enemy. Quincy was a better president than he gets credited for.
Yoseman1 8 months ago
@Yoseman1 Jackson wasn't evil... he was however a product of his time, but by no means evil. His displacement of native and support of slavery was a bit much, but very common then.
kailabreece 7 months ago
@Yoseman1 He might of had a temper, but he knew what he was doing. Getting rid of the National Bank is something Jefferson would of done around the same time period if not earlier. Jefferson was right and such a thing was destroying the nation, just as the Federal Reserve is today. Now, I disagree with Jacksons handling of the Indians, but other then that I believe he was a good president.
Hightech90 7 months ago 5
@noyouaintgettingit I hate to be nitpicky, but while Jefferson was a tremendous American and did many great things for this country, he was a LOUSY president. He wanted his greatest accomplishments to be put on his tombstone. Being the Third president of the United States was not put on his tomb. I wonder why. His second term of presidency broke him. The people hated him. Look up the "Embargo Act". I'm not saying I hate Jefferson. He was a brilliant American, but a lousy president.
SSRail328 9 months ago
@noyouaintgettingit After the great Abe Lincoln, of course.
CardingtonLZF 6 months ago
@CardingtonLZF Uh, NO.
joffeloff 6 months ago 2
@CardingtonLZF Abe Lincoln was a tyrant and has no business being on Mt. Rushmore. He prevented people from voicing their opinions against the war, blockaded the south (before there was ever war) and above all did not free A SINGLE slave. Lincoln is a joke and no one should ever put him anywhere close to the greatness of Jefferson.
Hightech90 6 months ago
it's quite amazing that Adams and Jefferson died on the same day, same month and year., Yet, they were never friends, always foes. But they both believed in the cause of freedom for the colonies. they just went about that in different ways. Jefferson being from Virginia and Adams being from Massachusetts
Irishrose2966 1 year ago
@Irishrose2966. Actually, they were friends. They became friends and political allies during the Revolutionary period. When Adams was President, he followed the Federalist model whilst Jefferson was "correctly" a proponent for a Republic. The Federalists favored and practiced too much "British" establishments and this is why their friendship fell apart; they then became "political foes." Years after Jefferson's presidency, they re-established their friendship in letter-writing from 1812-1826.
EmperadorElijah 1 year ago
Does anyone know of any good material to look at i am doing 5 page report on reviewing thomas jefferson as a president thnks
ReptarKillerOfOzone 1 year ago
seriously one of the greatest and most understated performances ive ever seen, stephen dillane is amazing, perfectly captures jeffersons quiet charisma.
captainchild 1 year ago
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captainchild 1 year ago
best series ever
Buyakaasha 1 year ago
This has to be THE best depiction of our Founding Fathers ever put on screen. Franklin, Jefferson, Adams and Washington were portrayed brilliantly ..
Adams and Jefferson died on the same day....the Fourth of July.
WiseGuy5674 1 year ago 45
@WiseGuy5674 they clearly went to great lengths to get the depictions right. If you look at 1:12 you will see Jefferson sits in a particularly bizarre and contorted manner yet always stands bolt upright. If you read Joseph Ellis' biography of Jefferson (American Sphinx) you'll find he discusses the contradictory reports of Jefferson's posture and concludes that this folded-when-sitting, upright-when-standing is the only way to square them. HBO even got the way the founding fathers SAT right.
Faboba 11 months ago
jefferson in a new film Die Hard 1700
jmm1233 1 year ago
This show is so inaccurate. For one, Thomas Jefferson actually had a lisp
JASM4collection 1 year ago
@JASM4collection Haha, who gives a shit about a lisp. That's your example of inaccuracy?
trocknickel 1 year ago
@trocknickel Apparently you don't, but when it comes to me (someone who takes historical accuracy very seriously in my work) I do. Ya that is my example of inaccuracy. That's a very important detail to miss out on. That's also the key reason why Thomas Jefferson only gave TWO speeched during his time as the president.
JASM4collection 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JASM4collection
"This show is so inaccurate. For one, Thomas Jefferson actually had a lisp"
I do not doubt you're honesty but I must ask where you heard or read this.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity.”—John Adams to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813--John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1856), Vol. X, pp. 45-46
timcp1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@timcp1 "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”-- Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson (Washington D. C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIII, p. 292-294. In a letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813.
timcp1 1 year ago
Jefferson and Adams died within a few hours of each other on July, 4 50 years after they signed the declaration.
dht23 1 year ago
These two(Adams and Jefferson) died on the same die very near times, and they both were great statesman and heroes.
sandythebear 1 year ago
thomas jefferson took the wrong path....he should've gone the scientific path...there he should have found total bliss
maurpine 1 year ago
Electing Ron Paul as our next president in 2012 = Bringing Thomas Jefferson back from the dead.
corysoulier 1 year ago 4
@corysoulier
Indeed, I also feel that Ron Paul is the Thomas Jefferson of the day. Although many have been fallaciously lead to believe otherwise, Jefferson was indeed a Christian... as were all of the founders. As President, Jefferson called for 8 years of weekly Sunday, Christian church service within the House of Representatives. But Jefferson's political thinking was often unorthodox to the mainstream Christian political thinking which was represented more by Adams & Washington. As an
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
@Chuichupachichi The idea that Jefferson was a Christian is widely up for debate. Look up "Deism in the United States" on wikipedia and then go look through sources 35-42 for more detail on that.
Then there's the fact that the Texas board of Education apparently doesn't think so, because they're dumbing down his influence in shaping the USA in their textbooks. *eyeroll.*
singerinwhite 1 year ago
example, Ron Paul, although a Christian, espouses views such as legalizing drugs. Very unorthodox to mainstream Christian political thinking. But he arrives at it from his Christian mind, nonetheless... as did Jefferson his views. Ron Paul believes that the government cannot & should not dictate morality to the people. Although all legislation is somebody's morality... that's inescapable. But God informs humanity of what is right & what is wrong, then affords man "freewill". Even God doesn't
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
force anyone to behave rightly. "Freewill" sounds very American to me. "freedom", "liberty", "freewill". People need to be freely convinced of right. Nevertheless, not all things can be made legal. Some things infringe upon the rights of others. People have the right to raise children & be in public without their children witnessing prostitution. At very least, keep it "on the other side of the tracks". Or in St. Louis, the river. Ron Paul sees drugs as a different issue simply because the
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
Federal government is the nation's Kingpin. Thus, the reason why they keep it illegal is because that makes the price exorbitant. The fact is that users are rarely the murderers & violent criminals. Its those who joust for the big dollars that engage in violent, drug related crimes. Legalization would eliminate that crime. Illicit drugs would simply be as any other pharmaceutical, sold at Rite Aid. Children wouldn't see street corner pushers anymore. The problem is that many people perceive
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
"legal" as meaning right or Ok. Thus, would more children be inclined to begin using? I don't know but I do know that the forbidden arouses much curiosity. Ultimately, John Adams was correct in stating; "our Constitution was created for a religious & moral people, it is wholly inadequate to the government of any other". It grants so much liberty that it requires people who will police themselves... even when nobody is looking. We take many security measures, in many ways, regarding many things
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
If people could contain altered states of mind within their heads & not ever let it be outwardly recognizable from thieving, violent or other wrongful behaviors, then most people wouldn't mind if recreational substances were to alone, be able to sustain Rite Aid. If the oligarchy stopped addicting people from childhood to the mental danger of "sensational stimulation", then chemical stimulants might be used for a prolonged focusing on important & intellectually stimulating information.
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
The oligarchy has been intentionally manufacturing dunce people, addicted to sensational stimulation. They're rarely interested in any information or knowledge of true value. Anything that requires turning the cranial gears, is a huge turn off to them & these things are often conducive of crime. Thug & sinister are popular culture & crime is in itself sensational stimulation. Since its not physically ingested they're not even aware of their severe addiction or of its effects. In all major cities
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
dillane is one of the best actors in hollywood.
MrStropparo 1 year ago
I demand a Thomas Jefferson spin-off!!!
winplayer86 1 year ago 19
@winplayer86 Amen Jefferson was our greatest Statesman.
DanielDamascusKimery 1 year ago
"cannot protect the nation by attacking the right of every man to speak freely without fear" amen bro....politicians of the world, heed the wise words of a wise man!
chokin2 1 year ago 2
Thomas Jefferson's so cute.
Patriotfighter1770 1 year ago
@martinwellborne
These are early American accents, almost the same as the English accents of the era.
inkstersco 1 year ago
It is said that while Jefferson could write with majesty, he was not a good public speaker. Ergo, his "no gift for oratory", as he says.
Hendo56 1 year ago
I haven't seen the whole series, but the one thing I can't get over is Jefferson's comment, "I have no gift for oratory," and yet in most scenes he is expounding his views most eloquently. Obviously that is because the miniseries presents each man voicing his words aloud, rather than in the innumerable letters from which they were culled. Not that our founding brothers weren't inclined to pontificate now and again, but it does seem slightly unnatural.
thomasrusso 1 year ago
@thomasrusso Very true!
HansBooBee 1 year ago
Die Hard Jefferson
jmm1233 1 year ago
"And I shall miss yours Mrs. Adams..!" Thomas Jefferson was a very likable man when he was happy. : ) As a person, Thomas Jefferson was a very humble, pleasant, sentimental man. I believe he changed a bit much after his wife died because he decided to avoid pain instead of get through it. Because of that, he stopped opening up his heart and used his mind.
LoquaciousInkSlinger 1 year ago
"Mankind floats on a limitless plane of air."--Jefferson "Mhmm..hot air."--Adams So subtely hilarious.
PseudoSenator 1 year ago 3
Jeff is great !
VeikoTG 1 year ago
actully try 4:45
TheWilliam505 1 year ago
6:00 sad fight support
TheWilliam505 1 year ago
he does-he has a cornish accent
bulked 1 year ago
@Tarn1968
Jefferson does have a West Country English accent, or something close.
inkstersco 2 years ago
Stephen Dillane is beautiful as Jefferson. :)
12aneedels 2 years ago 63