She says to "divorce yourself from religion" which I did years ago but is she not part of a religon? If your are silly or worried enough that you must chose a religon then does it not make sense to go with light and not darkness? You are in fact a religon that follows the writings of what the british press dubbed the most wicked man in the world! I bet if crowley were here today she would let him perform sex magick on her rear end. I saw this lodge, dark and creepy & in a shitty part of town!
There are things that "come naturally" to some people like phedophilia?...by this reasoning they should just "go for it" because it's in their nature? (I realize this is an extreme example but it IS a reality nonetheless)
There is nothing in the bible that is unreasonable for man to adhere to.
Love God, love each other, don't steal, kill, lie, commit adultry...all reasonable requet's that keep harmony.
Nature IS God and God is Nature.
We are 2 worship The Creator not creation itself...
...of course discovering your own true destiny is the goal of life, but the Ordo Templaris and AA are just trying to make it their own, without telling you that their teaching goes exactly against it.
Let's go straight to the point: this is basic deceiving. Why do you think the people following Aleister's teaching are Satanists, Wiccans, Scientologist or Freemasons and not hindus, jewish, muslims?
Just be of good sense: main caracteristics of the Beast is that it's charming, deceiving & lying.
2. Bullshit. Crowley's magick teaching have never been about discovering your "true" destiny as it is already the role prescribed by the major religions teachings.
They are just using the usual "portraying something as it's popular cliche", like Christianity as a church that ask you prayer which doesn't represent the true Christianity or Jesus teachings at all, to make you believe there is something better to do...
Nonsense. She knows piss all about the "Laws" of "Nature". There's only two "Laws" in "Nature". One is the "Law" of cooperation. The second hinges on the first. It is the "Law" of balance.
The problem with halfwits like this one, and so many others alive today is that they seek to spew and spatter their drek and slime out over as many impressionable minds as possible. In fact, this person is of the same ilk as Bush, Cheney, and all the rest.
The music they put to this sums it all up. Hyped up nonsense, these aren't tools for communication and conflict of values, It pains me to hear how political and militaristic this sounds, all the "laws" and crusades, what is this? Beyond belief, people are morons, they want something to talk about, their religion becomes something to defend. What's to defend if you trusted yourself and didn't have some sinister gain behind it all? Awful people everywhere...
The audio mix is not done well on this video - hard to make out your voice over the dark and disturbing music that is suppose to be in the background.
"Do as though wilt" Works for those with an IQ over 120. The masses "do as they wilt" you might as well stock up up on food an enough guns and ammo to protect you and your family. Manson did as he wilt under love, as did Hitler, so did the chick who drown her kids in the car, Bundy was a "do as wilter under love" just liked a little murder and torture wile he was loving. Some people are really deluded when it comes to human nature and IQ.
@ConservativeLogic Even geniuses often don't follow their true nature. Would you you blame a military officer for yelling "kill the bastards!" during a battle because a less intelligent member of his group goes around murdering illegitimate children when he gets back home? Come on!
@ConservativeLogic "Do WHAT thou wilt " refers to something completely different than what you are talking about. It is refering to your ~true will~ which is "defined at times as a person's grand destiny in life, and at other times as a moment to moment path of action that operates in perfect harmony with Nature." Those people weren't following the Law of Thelema as it was meant to be interpreted. (Yes, most of this was worded horribly, I know).
This woman is a little of. Following your true nature is not such a good idea if it is that of a psychopath. Such a view does not address self knowledge, or an objective view of morality that would allow one to fit into society. Not fitting in is ok I suppose, as long as you are not a serial killer. Best hope that is not your true nature, these teachings would advocate embracing such a nature as your moral center. Bishop indeed. Do what thou wilt? I think there's some missing from that credo.
@KenseiSL it is a summary, not the entire teaching! (duh!). How many possibility-of-misuse arguments have to be shot down by absurd examples before people stop this silly and shallow criticism? Fine, here's a new one: let's demand that condom wrappers include in their instructions: Step 1: have a penis.
Anyone who has a brain will realise that Christianity is a manufactured religion created to keep order . You really think if the God the Christians believe in is so good that he would torture anyone who didin't attend sunday mass ( inquisition). Or indeed make you pay for the soul of your beloved to have a mass said or your deceist relative will not go to heaven?
...she says:'if you divorce yourselves from religion and you really look at how nature works there really are no laws other than the laws of nature and if you are really acting in accordance with your true nature then that is your moral compass'--this makes no sense, what does she mean?
@musiquemaquer it's a description of reality. Could have been formulated better, agreed. Religion, like other arbitrary and limited actions, is a hindrance to anything outside of its scope, whether they are right or wrong in reality. Silly E.g., imagine a man is destined to become the best BBQ chef in the history of the world and change meat smoking forever, but he's growing up in a Jewish or Muslim household. Those of us who eat pork see the sadness in that - the members of the creeds don't.
@Sveccha93 I agree with what you say--that everyone is limited by their culture and by our mortal, finite reality--therefore, God, who is and lives in the infinite had to reach down and appear to us in our reality so that we could understand the things outside of our limitations, and who we really are--and that is what I believe is the challenge of the Bible to the world.
@musiquemaquer yes. this is where you have arrived as a rational and intelligent person among others, emotionally desperate to make sense out of an ancient, cruel and despairing desert philosophy through the most thorough, frankly disingenuous, addition of "but"s and "actually"s to the actual theology. I know it means too much to you to simply 'see' this and I know you are not going to change your mind because of a stranger on the internet ; still, I believe the light of truth can free you, too.
I would just love to see this 'Bishop' make a call to Matt Dillahunty at the Atheist Community of Austin. That would be an episode of the 'Atheist Experience' worth tuning in to!
Unattractive inside and out she rambles on about her admiration for natural law. Not only does she not know anything of Greek law and philosophy or Roman or Israelite law, and how they blended together to form the Judaeo-Christian ethic, but she would no doubt fail a test involving some very basic questions about our constitution. After listening to this dizzy dog it occurred to me that there must be a lot of Thelemites in our prison system.
@PoundingSensation Wow, unsubstantiated name-dropping. Share the significance of her ignorance, no one will benefit from an arrogantly paraded list of college courses!
Why do people have to take everything she says so litteral.
Take the law as is, take nature as is.
And wowsah156 has WAY TOO MUCH time on his or her hands to thnk the CIA is influtrating lodges. I think the government has better things to do than manipulate groups of people or lodges. dumbass.
A very good video showing how Caliphate OTO members have lost the plot and have been inflitrated and manipulated by security organisations like the CIA. The fact the lady was contradicting several Thelemic issues and brought American politics into her schemata shows the calipahte is a just a center of pestilence. (And that William Breeze is chasing porn stars now and showing how little "Thelema" he actually has in his character.) Good stuff!!
Crowley sacrificed children? What makes you so sure? What proof have you? None? Oh, someone told you he did? What proof did they provide? None?
Maybe you read, and misunderstood, the famous "blind" contained in Magic Theory and Practice? Maybe someone else did your reading for you, and misunderstood his famous "blind"?
Crowley loved playing pranks and making fools of dullards in his writing.
Since you didn't get the joke what are the readers of your comment to think of you?
Don't ask your reader how. Just prove it anyway you can, if you can. You do have proof don't you? Any further comment you make that fails to provide proof proves you have none.
Proof? His own words you dolt. This man who described cutting the throat and drinking the blood of a goat that was having coitus with a woman suddenly got meek and muddled trying to allude to semen? You insult this man of very real evil.
Provide the source of your information concerning "This man who described cutting the throat and drinking the blood of a goat that was having coitus with a woman". In other words I want you to prove what you say is true. Otherwise what are your readers to think of you?
This information you seek is easily available in second hand accounts of Crowley's conduct and as you well know Crowley himself was a strong advocate of animal sacrifice.
He was literally thrown out of Italy as you well know and one of his associates died from consuming cat blood there.
If you care to dispute that I am all ears as to how you would explain away a corpse. Eagerly awaiting your humorous response.
A) Where did Crowley 'strongly advocate' animal sacrifice? Text and quotation, please. And don't simply direct me elsewhere: he who asserts must prove...
B) Raoul Loveday likely died from acute enteric fever (the result of drinking unclean water from a mountain spring) - not from any ingestion of animal blood. The 'cat's blood' story arose in the context of tabloid journalism that routinely (and vigorously) demonised Crowley.
OTO's US grand lodge: "...O.T.O. takes no moral or religious stand against the practice of animal sacrifice, per se. Animal sacrifice is an ancient and legitimate religious tradition that has historically been practiced by many established religious systems...." So you're asserting Crowley and company were booted out of Italy for ingesting mountain spring water? haha. You OTO guys are going to start rewriting his books at some point like the Mormons do to make their 'hero' look better.
A) The OTO may take no 'moral or religious stance' against the use of animal sacrifice - but that is hardly an ENDORSEMENT of it. Rather, it appears the organisation merely recognises religious cultural difference and doesn't assume a Western standard as universal.
B) Crowley was not singularly expelled from Italy. A range of 'occult' groups fell under the eye of the Fascists, and were expelled. Crowley's tabloid 'fame' merely made him an easy target...
The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or the Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape. An animal should be selected whose nature accords with that of the ceremony — thus, by sacrificing a female lamb one would not obtain any appreciate quantity of the fierce energy .... In such a case a ram would be more suitable. " I dont know if youre OTO but if you are you're embarrassing yourself.
Obviously, the notion of the 'literary blind' has escaped you...
Crowley wrote such material in 'Magick: In Theory and Practice' as a 'blind', intended to direct attention away from the sexual element of his magick (to the uninitiated). References to 'sacrifice' are largely references to sexual undertakings - either solo or not. 'Female lamb'/ram' likely reduces to some form of sexual act with a virginal male or female...
So sacrificing when he's referring to a male child referes to semen. But when he's referring to a female lamb it obviously cant mean semen because its a female. So either Crowley was a shit writer whose 'literary blind' alters from paragraph to paragraph or you're lying through your fucking teeth. So either spell it out in a believeable manner or piss off and be known as the sad liar you are.
@Silvertrine Sorry darling - if you read about 300 pages of different things by Crowley you will realize you're mistaken. Take one for the team and move on.
@Sveccha93 I've read his work dont be so presumptuous. I pointed out incongruities in the supposed code he wrote in. You have presented nothing. Either put up or shut up.
@Silvertrine Bah. I deserved that. Nevertheless, I find it hard to believe that you could read his work and think those passages were literal. In fact, I don't believe it, even now. In any case, you're asking people to prove that someone was speaking in code as a ruse....how is that even possible? Your "incongruities" are nonsense as well...sex magick with partners is NOT the same as onanistic magick. Duh.
They make no such statement. Go back to that homepage statement: "No OTO member is ever required to perform or participate in animal sacrifice".
The Order merely RECOGNISES the historical (and, indeed, continuing) use of animal sacrifice in religious rites. It neither condemns nor encourages the practice - merely observes it.
what the fuck are you on about. nearly every humane being believes in sacrificing animals to feed our own appitites. islam must have the animal killed by a priest while he mumbles preyers for the meat to be halaal.and absoloutly every old religeon, including christianity, used to practice animal sacrifice. so just what are you arguing about
Killing animals for food and killing animals to use in religious rites are two vastly different things. If you're too stupid to see the details of exactly why just ask and I will be happy to point them out to you.
why dont you point it out then, because i see no difference between sacrificing an animal to a god or sacrificing them for ourelves. especially since thelema believes that each and every one of us is a god. also i dont feel the reason why we do something changes the fact in any way ,as it makes no difference if i kill you because god told me to or i kill you because i dont like your haircut . the fact still remains that i killed you.
you have obviously never read the bible then. the whole issue between cain and abel started becauseGod likes Abel's dead animals better than Cain's fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved -genisis 4:3 to 4:5. if you want more exodus 20:24 and 29:11 to29:28. in fact most of leviticus goes on about sacrificing animals unto the lord often in ways that will make any sane man sick.
yes, I have read the Bible completely, your quotes are from the Old Testament, long before the culture of Christianity was started. The questions you raise are really about God's nature and why animal sacrifices were important in the Judaic culture and what that all meant in regards to the Messiah that was to come. Now we can start our conversation...I do agree with your thought about the disturbing practice of sacrificing animals, I think that is a clue to some of this subject...
but it is still the same god in the old testament and new isnt it.(which leaves us with the question of why did god change so drastically if hes supposedly perfect. perfection is eternal not only for a thousand years or so )and the wholeof the new testament is based on sacrifice. the most dispicable sacrifice of all. that of a man. if gods all powerful then he could have fixed everything with a thought. but no he would rather turture and kill hes own son. see still the same old god after all.
and jesus even states that he strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. mathew 5:17. "One of the things that is overlooked by many Christians is that there is a wrathful Jesus in the New Testament. Jesus comes out and condemns whole towns to fates worse than Sodom and Gomorrah" sam harris
yes, Jesus approves of the OT law and prophets as you stated it. His wrath is against sin. I don't know the situation of the towns sam harris is referencing and I am not sure sam harris does either. Is sam in a position to judge the judgement on those towns? Again, maybe it is our lack of understanding of the cosmic problem of sin that skews our conclusions. What man can grasp how far we have strayed over the course of man's history? What man can measure the extent of evil on this planet?
yes, same God, but has He changed or has mankind's understanding grown? Do we pop out of the womb with perfect discernment? It looks like we agree that there is something wrong with the world. The years keep passing and no matter how many mental inventions and rituals man invents, the world is still screwed up. Maybe sin is more complex than our solution of God snapping his fingers to make it disappear. Ultimately, the great enemy is dealt with. Who killed Messiah?
perderabo11, I would offer that the way Messiah died was the most disturbing thing ever, innocent blood shed because of envy--this is the great dilemma offered to man: does sin that man brought into the world just vanish because we die or wish it away?...or does it have consequences on a cosmic scale, here in the physical, and also on the spiritual planes of existence? And how do we feel God should deal with it?
"sin that man brought into the world" lol. it says in the bible that god created evil not man.and yes i would say jesus death was disturbing but for different reasons.hes blood was shed because hes father and god wanted it to be and judging by his attitude in the old testament probably took some perverse pleasure out of hes turture and death.and personally i would feel happier if the chritian god would just leave us along. he created evil and death and suffering etc not us
I don't remember the Bible saying that God created evil...where is that? Messiah chose death. God having perverse pleasure from Messiah's death is your assumption. You are free to choose to have the Christian God leave you alone, but what is He doing to you that makes you feel that way? I think it may be impossible to understand a world without evil and death...all the more reason to comsider something beyond this world as a possible solution.
The Bible makes us aware of another entity who wants to destroy us, Lucifer, Satan, the accuser, the father of lies...why do we choose to blame God for all the suffering? What about Satan? Is he just an innocent bystander, is he a passive observer...what is he? Why doesn't the blame fall on him? How does he figure in to all this?
@musiquemaquer God made Satan. And Job makes it clear that it is Satan's job in the heavenly council to test people when and how God asks. Satan is confounded with an equal/opposite God after the Jews' stint among Zoroastrians. All such references are folklore and not recorded in the scriptures until certain Christian writings in the 1st and 2nd centuries.
@Sveccha93 I t is my understanding that the text says that God made Lucifer, and it was Lucifer's rebellious heart that skewed him into the Satan being. Job describes Satan as presenting himself before God, and then challenges Him, then God directs him to consider Job--Job being an example of a man that has a love for God that does not depend on his earthly blessings. So, I don't believe the text says that it is Satan's 'job' per se--I believe Satan is demonstrating some type of free will.
@Sveccha93 I am not sure I understand enough about your reference to the Zoroastrians...this would be the Jewish exile to Babylon, is this right? So, I can't comment on the 'equal/opposite God' except that I believe the Bible describes a perfect reality that God made, and that evil is hatched when we warp that reality into something unholy, therefore, the past, present, and future drama of God's plan to recover humans from death as the result of their destrucive choices.
@Silvertrine you have a point but , in fact, he did not come up with that turn of phrase himself. And such blinds are not used out of humility or shame - no one suggested that so how can you base your criticism on it? And what - you don't eat the living?
DO WHAT THOU WILT? if there where no consequences of such actions then it would be an totalirism domain, control by one government or person as you master taught, you are saying that it is equality as human to a GOD(Divine himself)
As I was mediatating of my previous actions that brought consequence and pull it out without serious effects, to my understanding of Crowley Law is " YOUR WIll create the law for this love the law, love is the will" well everybody are owners of our destiny and our own domain, we just adapt the laws of the nations in which it is the law come from the will to manifest and allow the people to accept the this WIll laws to apply in society.
A good summary of Crowley's later writings, and critique of 'unnatural religion'; of course, religon may be at least 900,000 years old - so when does belief X become 'natural'? The Zoroastrian purity laws were a 'religious' response to the real threat of plague IMO; please ditch the music - use for intro only; like the different camera angles, but you could afford two cameras, surely? ( can't, lol)
Wow. Very attractive and charismatic lady.
PleaseLookAtMyCock 3 weeks ago
She says to "divorce yourself from religion" which I did years ago but is she not part of a religon? If your are silly or worried enough that you must chose a religon then does it not make sense to go with light and not darkness? You are in fact a religon that follows the writings of what the british press dubbed the most wicked man in the world! I bet if crowley were here today she would let him perform sex magick on her rear end. I saw this lodge, dark and creepy & in a shitty part of town!
cmhallpw 3 months ago
wanna a husband?
samuelsixvids 5 months ago
cool woman
samuelsixvids 5 months ago
this bitch is giving off such a dark, negative energy. She needs to rethink her beliefs because they are leading her down a dark road
SumNJFella 6 months ago
her political beliefs as expressed here are very naive.
she's not bad for an old witch though.
anothercountyheard 6 months ago
"Do what thou wilt..." also means that you're the one responsible for your choices.... You are the one responsible for law.
(Not to mention the Taoism included, about finding your role in the Process.)
PopeZenMayas 7 months ago
There are things that "come naturally" to some people like phedophilia?...by this reasoning they should just "go for it" because it's in their nature? (I realize this is an extreme example but it IS a reality nonetheless)
There is nothing in the bible that is unreasonable for man to adhere to.
Love God, love each other, don't steal, kill, lie, commit adultry...all reasonable requet's that keep harmony.
Nature IS God and God is Nature.
We are 2 worship The Creator not creation itself...
atlasshrugged2u 8 months ago
93! :D
freedomfightersam 9 months ago
Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla CRAP Bla Bla Bla bLA GARBAGE Bla bla bla Bla Bla Bla
naos71381 9 months ago
...of course discovering your own true destiny is the goal of life, but the Ordo Templaris and AA are just trying to make it their own, without telling you that their teaching goes exactly against it.
Let's go straight to the point: this is basic deceiving. Why do you think the people following Aleister's teaching are Satanists, Wiccans, Scientologist or Freemasons and not hindus, jewish, muslims?
Just be of good sense: main caracteristics of the Beast is that it's charming, deceiving & lying.
greoar 10 months ago
@greoar Dude, that was briliiant and true and I couldn't have said it better myself!!
Good goin
atlasshrugged2u 8 months ago
1. Why the horrible music covering what she says?
2. Bullshit. Crowley's magick teaching have never been about discovering your "true" destiny as it is already the role prescribed by the major religions teachings.
They are just using the usual "portraying something as it's popular cliche", like Christianity as a church that ask you prayer which doesn't represent the true Christianity or Jesus teachings at all, to make you believe there is something better to do...
greoar 10 months ago
@greoar EXACTLY!!
atlasshrugged2u 8 months ago
spreading her legs and shit. Euro's stole the real science from indigenous people. black and brown people lol
abstractmuziq 1 year ago
fuckin amateurs
abstractmuziq 1 year ago
She can bash my bishop any day of the week.
Snout217 1 year ago
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ledzeppelin1975 1 year ago
i knew some crazy shit was happening in austin,..fuck crowley!
gus361 1 year ago
Nonsense. She knows piss all about the "Laws" of "Nature". There's only two "Laws" in "Nature". One is the "Law" of cooperation. The second hinges on the first. It is the "Law" of balance.
The problem with halfwits like this one, and so many others alive today is that they seek to spew and spatter their drek and slime out over as many impressionable minds as possible. In fact, this person is of the same ilk as Bush, Cheney, and all the rest.
GaleZMe 1 year ago
I belong to a TRUE lineage that reaches back to A.C. but I must say Scarlet Woman Lodge is very interesting in terms of Energy! You Go My Lady!!
birthbox 1 year ago
what's with the music...you can barely hear the woman.
Superboy316KING 1 year ago
The music they put to this sums it all up. Hyped up nonsense, these aren't tools for communication and conflict of values, It pains me to hear how political and militaristic this sounds, all the "laws" and crusades, what is this? Beyond belief, people are morons, they want something to talk about, their religion becomes something to defend. What's to defend if you trusted yourself and didn't have some sinister gain behind it all? Awful people everywhere...
ofdarknessandlight 1 year ago 2
The audio mix is not done well on this video - hard to make out your voice over the dark and disturbing music that is suppose to be in the background.
snipperboo 1 year ago
"Do as though wilt" Works for those with an IQ over 120. The masses "do as they wilt" you might as well stock up up on food an enough guns and ammo to protect you and your family. Manson did as he wilt under love, as did Hitler, so did the chick who drown her kids in the car, Bundy was a "do as wilter under love" just liked a little murder and torture wile he was loving. Some people are really deluded when it comes to human nature and IQ.
ConservativeLogic 1 year ago
@ConservativeLogic Even geniuses often don't follow their true nature. Would you you blame a military officer for yelling "kill the bastards!" during a battle because a less intelligent member of his group goes around murdering illegitimate children when he gets back home? Come on!
Sveccha93 1 year ago
@ConservativeLogic "Do WHAT thou wilt " refers to something completely different than what you are talking about. It is refering to your ~true will~ which is "defined at times as a person's grand destiny in life, and at other times as a moment to moment path of action that operates in perfect harmony with Nature." Those people weren't following the Law of Thelema as it was meant to be interpreted. (Yes, most of this was worded horribly, I know).
xkellyrene 10 months ago
Hail to thee, Bishop Tau Marie,
On this, the Second Day of the Writing of the Book of the Law!
93: 93/93
RenoThelemaCrew 1 year ago
Bush is definitely no Christian. This lady is right about there being no laws except for the laws of nature. And rights are your own subjective view.
unclesamnephew666 2 years ago
This woman is a little of. Following your true nature is not such a good idea if it is that of a psychopath. Such a view does not address self knowledge, or an objective view of morality that would allow one to fit into society. Not fitting in is ok I suppose, as long as you are not a serial killer. Best hope that is not your true nature, these teachings would advocate embracing such a nature as your moral center. Bishop indeed. Do what thou wilt? I think there's some missing from that credo.
KenseiSL 2 years ago
@KenseiSL it is a summary, not the entire teaching! (duh!). How many possibility-of-misuse arguments have to be shot down by absurd examples before people stop this silly and shallow criticism? Fine, here's a new one: let's demand that condom wrappers include in their instructions: Step 1: have a penis.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
@Sveccha93
I think they do have very similar instructions. Damn tort lawyers. I'm almost possitive "do not swallow condom" is on there.
ConservativeLogic 1 year ago
@ConservativeLogic haha. i like you. i buy you beer.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
@Sveccha93
I'll take a gin and tonic. It's Summer!
Cheers.
ConservativeLogic 1 year ago
@ConservativeLogic double cheers! bottoms up.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
5* \m/
impulsetospit 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The religion Aleister Crowley preached, believing in that is much, much more absurd than believing in Christianity.
restaurant99 2 years ago
Anyone who has a brain will realise that Christianity is a manufactured religion created to keep order . You really think if the God the Christians believe in is so good that he would torture anyone who didin't attend sunday mass ( inquisition). Or indeed make you pay for the soul of your beloved to have a mass said or your deceist relative will not go to heaven?
sugarbabe06 2 years ago
God never tortured anyone you retarded bimbo bitch.
annunakisoldier 2 years ago
...she says:'if you divorce yourselves from religion and you really look at how nature works there really are no laws other than the laws of nature and if you are really acting in accordance with your true nature then that is your moral compass'--this makes no sense, what does she mean?
musiquemaquer 2 years ago
@musiquemaquer it's a description of reality. Could have been formulated better, agreed. Religion, like other arbitrary and limited actions, is a hindrance to anything outside of its scope, whether they are right or wrong in reality. Silly E.g., imagine a man is destined to become the best BBQ chef in the history of the world and change meat smoking forever, but he's growing up in a Jewish or Muslim household. Those of us who eat pork see the sadness in that - the members of the creeds don't.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
@Sveccha93 I agree with what you say--that everyone is limited by their culture and by our mortal, finite reality--therefore, God, who is and lives in the infinite had to reach down and appear to us in our reality so that we could understand the things outside of our limitations, and who we really are--and that is what I believe is the challenge of the Bible to the world.
musiquemaquer 1 year ago
@musiquemaquer yes. this is where you have arrived as a rational and intelligent person among others, emotionally desperate to make sense out of an ancient, cruel and despairing desert philosophy through the most thorough, frankly disingenuous, addition of "but"s and "actually"s to the actual theology. I know it means too much to you to simply 'see' this and I know you are not going to change your mind because of a stranger on the internet ; still, I believe the light of truth can free you, too.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
If you think George Bush is a Christian you are totally blind.
Come on now, do a little research.
newgtguy 2 years ago
Methodist Christian
Wingedmagician 2 years ago
Is this a Christian organization?
watch?v=nY-0OMAqNqI
newgtguy 2 years ago
I would just love to see this 'Bishop' make a call to Matt Dillahunty at the Atheist Community of Austin. That would be an episode of the 'Atheist Experience' worth tuning in to!
Subutubiata 2 years ago
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KilluminatiMujahad 2 years ago
Comment removed
Vilaven 2 years ago
take away the irretating music.
witchcerridwen 2 years ago
Unattractive inside and out she rambles on about her admiration for natural law. Not only does she not know anything of Greek law and philosophy or Roman or Israelite law, and how they blended together to form the Judaeo-Christian ethic, but she would no doubt fail a test involving some very basic questions about our constitution. After listening to this dizzy dog it occurred to me that there must be a lot of Thelemites in our prison system.
PoundingSensation 2 years ago
@PoundingSensation Wow, unsubstantiated name-dropping. Share the significance of her ignorance, no one will benefit from an arrogantly paraded list of college courses!
Sveccha93 1 year ago
Why do people have to take everything she says so litteral.
Take the law as is, take nature as is.
And wowsah156 has WAY TOO MUCH time on his or her hands to thnk the CIA is influtrating lodges. I think the government has better things to do than manipulate groups of people or lodges. dumbass.
DillonJumps 2 years ago
More crap to blind the human race from really learning and expanding.
jedirock 3 years ago
This is another religion is it not!! LOL
jedirock 3 years ago
She is a hottie, Id take her right there on the couch. If she would be willing that is...
Vissago22 3 years ago
A very good video showing how Caliphate OTO members have lost the plot and have been inflitrated and manipulated by security organisations like the CIA. The fact the lady was contradicting several Thelemic issues and brought American politics into her schemata shows the calipahte is a just a center of pestilence. (And that William Breeze is chasing porn stars now and showing how little "Thelema" he actually has in his character.) Good stuff!!
wowsah156 3 years ago
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law and Love is the law, love under will.
That's great, is that Y Crowley sacrificed children then?
PortonDownSyndrome 3 years ago
Crowley sacrificed children? What makes you so sure? What proof have you? None? Oh, someone told you he did? What proof did they provide? None?
Maybe you read, and misunderstood, the famous "blind" contained in Magic Theory and Practice? Maybe someone else did your reading for you, and misunderstood his famous "blind"?
Crowley loved playing pranks and making fools of dullards in his writing.
Since you didn't get the joke what are the readers of your comment to think of you?
HerbDangerous 3 years ago
Just how would you like me to proooove it to you?
I'm not a fool, i'm an infidel. Fool.
PortonDownSyndrome 3 years ago
Don't ask your reader how. Just prove it anyway you can, if you can. You do have proof don't you? Any further comment you make that fails to provide proof proves you have none.
HerbDangerous 3 years ago
As i said, how can i prooooove it to you? I don't have a shred of proof, as my previous comment implied. Fool.
PortonDownSyndrome 3 years ago
Priceless!
winterjps 3 years ago
Proof? His own words you dolt. This man who described cutting the throat and drinking the blood of a goat that was having coitus with a woman suddenly got meek and muddled trying to allude to semen? You insult this man of very real evil.
Silvertrine 2 years ago
Silvertrine,
Provide the source of your information concerning "This man who described cutting the throat and drinking the blood of a goat that was having coitus with a woman". In other words I want you to prove what you say is true. Otherwise what are your readers to think of you?
HerbDangerous 2 years ago
This information you seek is easily available in second hand accounts of Crowley's conduct and as you well know Crowley himself was a strong advocate of animal sacrifice.
He was literally thrown out of Italy as you well know and one of his associates died from consuming cat blood there.
If you care to dispute that I am all ears as to how you would explain away a corpse. Eagerly awaiting your humorous response.
Silvertrine 2 years ago
A) Where did Crowley 'strongly advocate' animal sacrifice? Text and quotation, please. And don't simply direct me elsewhere: he who asserts must prove...
B) Raoul Loveday likely died from acute enteric fever (the result of drinking unclean water from a mountain spring) - not from any ingestion of animal blood. The 'cat's blood' story arose in the context of tabloid journalism that routinely (and vigorously) demonised Crowley.
Johnny6666 2 years ago
OTO's US grand lodge: "...O.T.O. takes no moral or religious stand against the practice of animal sacrifice, per se. Animal sacrifice is an ancient and legitimate religious tradition that has historically been practiced by many established religious systems...." So you're asserting Crowley and company were booted out of Italy for ingesting mountain spring water? haha. You OTO guys are going to start rewriting his books at some point like the Mormons do to make their 'hero' look better.
Silvertrine 2 years ago
A) The OTO may take no 'moral or religious stance' against the use of animal sacrifice - but that is hardly an ENDORSEMENT of it. Rather, it appears the organisation merely recognises religious cultural difference and doesn't assume a Western standard as universal.
B) Crowley was not singularly expelled from Italy. A range of 'occult' groups fell under the eye of the Fascists, and were expelled. Crowley's tabloid 'fame' merely made him an easy target...
Johnny6666 2 years ago
Further, quotation of the principles of the modern OTO is not a statement from Crowley himself, is it?
(You held that CROWLEY himself strongly advocated animal sacrifice - so quote him to that effect.)
Johnny6666 2 years ago
From Crowley's "Magick in Theory and Practice":
The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or the Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape. An animal should be selected whose nature accords with that of the ceremony — thus, by sacrificing a female lamb one would not obtain any appreciate quantity of the fierce energy .... In such a case a ram would be more suitable. " I dont know if youre OTO but if you are you're embarrassing yourself.
Silvertrine 2 years ago
Obviously, the notion of the 'literary blind' has escaped you...
Crowley wrote such material in 'Magick: In Theory and Practice' as a 'blind', intended to direct attention away from the sexual element of his magick (to the uninitiated). References to 'sacrifice' are largely references to sexual undertakings - either solo or not. 'Female lamb'/ram' likely reduces to some form of sexual act with a virginal male or female...
Duh.
Johnny6666 2 years ago
So sacrificing when he's referring to a male child referes to semen. But when he's referring to a female lamb it obviously cant mean semen because its a female. So either Crowley was a shit writer whose 'literary blind' alters from paragraph to paragraph or you're lying through your fucking teeth. So either spell it out in a believeable manner or piss off and be known as the sad liar you are.
Silvertrine 2 years ago
The terms 'female' or 'male' could refer to either vaginal or anal sex - it may not necessarily reduce to gender.
Do some reading, idiot. His 'coded' entries are well known, and standard content in Crowley biographies.
Your posts indicate your complete lack of knowledge regarding the man beyond 'tabloid' tattle tales...
Johnny6666 2 years ago
haha know when to quit telling tall tales and know when you've been exposed. You sound ridiculous.
Silvertrine 2 years ago
Then you've not read Crowley - and it damn well shows, little man.
: )
Johnny6666 2 years ago
@Silvertrine Sorry darling - if you read about 300 pages of different things by Crowley you will realize you're mistaken. Take one for the team and move on.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
@Sveccha93 I've read his work dont be so presumptuous. I pointed out incongruities in the supposed code he wrote in. You have presented nothing. Either put up or shut up.
Silvertrine 1 year ago
@Silvertrine Bah. I deserved that. Nevertheless, I find it hard to believe that you could read his work and think those passages were literal. In fact, I don't believe it, even now. In any case, you're asking people to prove that someone was speaking in code as a ruse....how is that even possible? Your "incongruities" are nonsense as well...sex magick with partners is NOT the same as onanistic magick. Duh.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
Of course its an endorsement of it. Name one other American group that says 'we're ok with animal sacrifice' on its homepage.
Silvertrine 2 years ago
They make no such statement. Go back to that homepage statement: "No OTO member is ever required to perform or participate in animal sacrifice".
The Order merely RECOGNISES the historical (and, indeed, continuing) use of animal sacrifice in religious rites. It neither condemns nor encourages the practice - merely observes it.
Can you read, by any chance?
Johnny6666 2 years ago
VOO DOO in New Orleans - however they don't have a home page they still practice it none the less
blindpig93 2 years ago
Comment removed
ozzzz156 2 years ago
what the fuck are you on about. nearly every humane being believes in sacrificing animals to feed our own appitites. islam must have the animal killed by a priest while he mumbles preyers for the meat to be halaal.and absoloutly every old religeon, including christianity, used to practice animal sacrifice. so just what are you arguing about
perderabo11 2 years ago
Killing animals for food and killing animals to use in religious rites are two vastly different things. If you're too stupid to see the details of exactly why just ask and I will be happy to point them out to you.
Silvertrine 2 years ago
why dont you point it out then, because i see no difference between sacrificing an animal to a god or sacrificing them for ourelves. especially since thelema believes that each and every one of us is a god. also i dont feel the reason why we do something changes the fact in any way ,as it makes no difference if i kill you because god told me to or i kill you because i dont like your haircut . the fact still remains that i killed you.
perderabo11 2 years ago
When did the religion of Christianity practice animal sacrifice? I have never heard of this...
musiquemaquer 2 years ago
you have obviously never read the bible then. the whole issue between cain and abel started becauseGod likes Abel's dead animals better than Cain's fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved -genisis 4:3 to 4:5. if you want more exodus 20:24 and 29:11 to29:28. in fact most of leviticus goes on about sacrificing animals unto the lord often in ways that will make any sane man sick.
perderabo11 2 years ago
yes, I have read the Bible completely, your quotes are from the Old Testament, long before the culture of Christianity was started. The questions you raise are really about God's nature and why animal sacrifices were important in the Judaic culture and what that all meant in regards to the Messiah that was to come. Now we can start our conversation...I do agree with your thought about the disturbing practice of sacrificing animals, I think that is a clue to some of this subject...
musiquemaquer 2 years ago 4
but it is still the same god in the old testament and new isnt it.(which leaves us with the question of why did god change so drastically if hes supposedly perfect. perfection is eternal not only for a thousand years or so )and the wholeof the new testament is based on sacrifice. the most dispicable sacrifice of all. that of a man. if gods all powerful then he could have fixed everything with a thought. but no he would rather turture and kill hes own son. see still the same old god after all.
perderabo11 2 years ago
and jesus even states that he strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. mathew 5:17. "One of the things that is overlooked by many Christians is that there is a wrathful Jesus in the New Testament. Jesus comes out and condemns whole towns to fates worse than Sodom and Gomorrah" sam harris
perderabo11 2 years ago
yes, Jesus approves of the OT law and prophets as you stated it. His wrath is against sin. I don't know the situation of the towns sam harris is referencing and I am not sure sam harris does either. Is sam in a position to judge the judgement on those towns? Again, maybe it is our lack of understanding of the cosmic problem of sin that skews our conclusions. What man can grasp how far we have strayed over the course of man's history? What man can measure the extent of evil on this planet?
musiquemaquer 2 years ago
yes, same God, but has He changed or has mankind's understanding grown? Do we pop out of the womb with perfect discernment? It looks like we agree that there is something wrong with the world. The years keep passing and no matter how many mental inventions and rituals man invents, the world is still screwed up. Maybe sin is more complex than our solution of God snapping his fingers to make it disappear. Ultimately, the great enemy is dealt with. Who killed Messiah?
musiquemaquer 2 years ago
@musiquemaquer--It goes to show. Abel's blood sacrifice was accepted and Cain's cabbage was frowned upon. God likes blood. He's a blood god.
tardwhisperer 1 year ago
perderabo11, I would offer that the way Messiah died was the most disturbing thing ever, innocent blood shed because of envy--this is the great dilemma offered to man: does sin that man brought into the world just vanish because we die or wish it away?...or does it have consequences on a cosmic scale, here in the physical, and also on the spiritual planes of existence? And how do we feel God should deal with it?
musiquemaquer 2 years ago
"sin that man brought into the world" lol. it says in the bible that god created evil not man.and yes i would say jesus death was disturbing but for different reasons.hes blood was shed because hes father and god wanted it to be and judging by his attitude in the old testament probably took some perverse pleasure out of hes turture and death.and personally i would feel happier if the chritian god would just leave us along. he created evil and death and suffering etc not us
perderabo11 2 years ago
I don't remember the Bible saying that God created evil...where is that? Messiah chose death. God having perverse pleasure from Messiah's death is your assumption. You are free to choose to have the Christian God leave you alone, but what is He doing to you that makes you feel that way? I think it may be impossible to understand a world without evil and death...all the more reason to comsider something beyond this world as a possible solution.
musiquemaquer 2 years ago
The Bible makes us aware of another entity who wants to destroy us, Lucifer, Satan, the accuser, the father of lies...why do we choose to blame God for all the suffering? What about Satan? Is he just an innocent bystander, is he a passive observer...what is he? Why doesn't the blame fall on him? How does he figure in to all this?
musiquemaquer 2 years ago
@musiquemaquer God made Satan. And Job makes it clear that it is Satan's job in the heavenly council to test people when and how God asks. Satan is confounded with an equal/opposite God after the Jews' stint among Zoroastrians. All such references are folklore and not recorded in the scriptures until certain Christian writings in the 1st and 2nd centuries.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
@Sveccha93 I t is my understanding that the text says that God made Lucifer, and it was Lucifer's rebellious heart that skewed him into the Satan being. Job describes Satan as presenting himself before God, and then challenges Him, then God directs him to consider Job--Job being an example of a man that has a love for God that does not depend on his earthly blessings. So, I don't believe the text says that it is Satan's 'job' per se--I believe Satan is demonstrating some type of free will.
musiquemaquer 1 year ago
@Sveccha93 I am not sure I understand enough about your reference to the Zoroastrians...this would be the Jewish exile to Babylon, is this right? So, I can't comment on the 'equal/opposite God' except that I believe the Bible describes a perfect reality that God made, and that evil is hatched when we warp that reality into something unholy, therefore, the past, present, and future drama of God's plan to recover humans from death as the result of their destrucive choices.
musiquemaquer 1 year ago
@Silvertrine you have a point but , in fact, he did not come up with that turn of phrase himself. And such blinds are not used out of humility or shame - no one suggested that so how can you base your criticism on it? And what - you don't eat the living?
Sveccha93 1 year ago
Don't challeng people's faith by pointing out the obvious to them. They wont like it, it requires a DEGREE of thoth... i mean; thought. Booo! Hiss!
PortonDownSyndrome 3 years ago
@PortonDownSyndrome I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn, sweetie.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
DO WHAT THOU WILT? if there where no consequences of such actions then it would be an totalirism domain, control by one government or person as you master taught, you are saying that it is equality as human to a GOD(Divine himself)
snewjaimes 3 years ago
you misinterpret the law, it means find what your true destiny is to be and follow the road that leads to it, not do whatever you want
trukvltwontdie3ghz 3 years ago 11
As I was mediatating of my previous actions that brought consequence and pull it out without serious effects, to my understanding of Crowley Law is " YOUR WIll create the law for this love the law, love is the will" well everybody are owners of our destiny and our own domain, we just adapt the laws of the nations in which it is the law come from the will to manifest and allow the people to accept the this WIll laws to apply in society.
snewjaimes 3 years ago
@trukvltwontdie3ghz Death is the Truth, the Way, and Life! This is not a joke, nor is it folly. Know Death and Be Life!
soweru8 7 months ago
93!
Cool to see all those positive and progressive impulses coming from the good ol' EGC! Keep on that Great Work (pun intended)!
tmafkap 3 years ago
A good summary of Crowley's later writings, and critique of 'unnatural religion'; of course, religon may be at least 900,000 years old - so when does belief X become 'natural'? The Zoroastrian purity laws were a 'religious' response to the real threat of plague IMO; please ditch the music - use for intro only; like the different camera angles, but you could afford two cameras, surely? ( can't, lol)
zeit23geist 3 years ago 3
Tau Marie! Good to see you on here.
93 93/93 if your watching!
Fr. Oz
ozzzz156 3 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What an idiot! Next, she's going to start talking about flying saucers.
grandmasterdre 3 years ago
How did you draw that conclusion?
hazza59 3 years ago
Are you going to answer?
hazza59 3 years ago