Abysmal. This is the worst portrayal of Tina I have ever seen! I would hate for people of this generation to think that this is how she really performed in the 60s. So awful...
A great tribute. NO ONE is going to be the orgianal singer / performer THAT S simply imposable. But I can say each performer that protraier a legendary singer on American Dreams did so with a lot of respect and that s worth a LOT. I loved this show and the time period it was set in. Not just the Beatles but Jan and Dean, The Beach Boys, Ike and Tina, Dianna Ross,, so many amazeing singers and great talents, ...it s like being homesick, you miss it that much
thatz how tina performed back then and now. if fefe didn't portray tina well enough then the director or producers of the show would have given the role to someone else. there have been other artists that came on the show and portrayed the given legendary role of an 60s artist but they didn't sound or performed exactly like them.
Oh my GOD This girl is no Tina Turner, a drag queen can do better than this performance! Tina Turner does not move around like that on stage, well don't get me wrong she has a lot of energy but just the movements that this girl did for this song is nothing compared to the real deal. A TOTAL SHAME IF YOU ASK ME!!!!
Why thte hell is there always a comparison of artist on EVERY youtube video. Not only are ya'll bickering for no good cause, but your demeaning the artist themselves. If you really liked the artist you would respect their talent and support them instead of bashing them for doing something their manager or video director told them to do or try. Peopl eact like famous people don't have stylist and everything else under the sun. Anyway, I loved this performance from Fefe Dobson.
i don't mean any offence, for i've never really watched tina turner nor fefe dobson performed , but this performance kinda scared me..... like.. the way she moved and her facial expressions.. quite frightened me.
I don't like FeFe as Tina. She seems to be making Tina into a charicature, as opposed to a real performer....hmmmm, not my favorite. Angela Bassett was AMAZING in the movie!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
it doesnt matter if rihanna copied fefe dobson or not because the fact remains that rihanna is more famous, successful and popular than ''what's her name''
omg i've heard the original version with tina turner! and yes, it's good! but i love fefe's version more! to everyone who thinks they're opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong, i'm not saying it's better, just that i enjoy fefe's more!
\> cont'd from below. She's young enough, if she really wants to pursue this, with a voice coach who'll be respectful of her wanting to sound like Tina and help her do so, she'll come far. Most teachers try to coax out the natural voice at least at first. But, she's established,...she has more pro's than con's.
Yeah I think Tina did move sort of like this, some of these are her signature moves and she does them also to Proud Mary. She has classic stances, arm moves, and shimmies unique to her flourishing movements. That's what most impersonators can't do. The voice comes easier but not the aura that is Tina.
That being said, I do think for when this song came out it was prior to heavy fringe years (she wore sweaters and longer skirts and long straight hair. But Fefe sure has the voice, IF she
Fefe's impression is not overstated. Tina really did act like this in the 60's. Although Tina didn't wear the 20's flapper dress in the late-60's. That look came later.
i think she captured tina's attitude better than some other singers out there, even if her impression is overstated (but face it, tina really does act like that, people! and we love her for it)
i wish i could get a full version of her singing this song.
Mya, Chilli from TLC, Mary J. Blige or Beyonce come to mind. Fefe was only 18 when she played this part and looked much younger. She also doesn't have the raw voice needed to convincingly pull of the portrayal convincingly.
yeah but with people like tina turner with such character in their performances...it can easily turn into a bad impersonation which i believe this one is...she still has to be realistic. n e way.. i think Fefe sounded amazing on the song ..just a bad performance =)
"River Deep, Mountain High" was produced by Phil Specter, Ike had nothing to do with it.. well, other than to 'allow' Tina, if you will, to work with Phil Specter.
That's what i'm saying.. Ike had absolutely nothing to do with this song, so he wouldn't be there. While "Ike and Tina" did later do their own version of it together, this version was only Tina Turner, no Ike at all.
Of course there's only one Tina Turner. You guys are f*ckin' retards- if everyone compared them as stringently as you do, NO ONE would ever portray Tina Turner and no one would know that song exists, some 40 years after it was made.
Thumbs up to FD for taking that challenge on- I dig her take on the song and the show's recreation of Phil Spector's sound.
Fefe did great!! No she was no Tina but she has to stick to her own style! she can never abandon that and her style is great. To those who didn't like her as Tina remember that!!
She definately doesn't suit the role of Tina. Where in the hell did those stiff dance moves come from at 1:22. That was horrible. Voice isn't powerful enough. Fefe should have turned down this role or studied Tina closer to get the moves right.
Who Cares, Anyway?...If You Like It "You Like It" , If You Don't "You Don't"...Everyone Is Entitled To Their Own Opinion...I Liked It, Think Of It As Holloween...It's Not Really You, You're Just Having Fun!
i dont know why people are critising. She is doing a good job, besides Fefe is dircted to do that and dance like that. I think she is amazing and a great inspiring talent. before judging, you should try a little understanding first.
I am not a fan of fefe but I LOVE this verison!!!! plus I Iove this show! i MISS it. I wonder if its available anywhere? LET ME WHERE I CAN DOWNLOAD IT, IF U KNOW. THANX
I'm sure you could do soooo much better! That's why you're sitting at home, criticizing successful people. Get a life! Lol. I'm here enjoying this video, I don't need to come across your hater crap!
Fefe is great as Tina! she captures the raw passion and vibrant energy Tina has in her performances.
KayceeSparks 1 month ago
Do you have Kelly Rowland singing Dancing in the Street on the show?
KayceeSparks 1 month ago
terrible
betogarofalobr 1 month ago
Abysmal. This is the worst portrayal of Tina I have ever seen! I would hate for people of this generation to think that this is how she really performed in the 60s. So awful...
theturners71 2 months ago
i went to school with this girl
victorbanner 4 months ago
A great tribute. NO ONE is going to be the orgianal singer / performer THAT S simply imposable. But I can say each performer that protraier a legendary singer on American Dreams did so with a lot of respect and that s worth a LOT. I loved this show and the time period it was set in. Not just the Beatles but Jan and Dean, The Beach Boys, Ike and Tina, Dianna Ross,, so many amazeing singers and great talents, ...it s like being homesick, you miss it that much
rockinrobintweets 5 months ago
i dont like it all .. that was not any tina turner ive ever seen..and im a huge huge fan.. sorry .please take it down...
ricoafterdark 7 months ago
fefe is singin this song
mjjcng8958 10 months ago
wow but fefe and tina turner are similar in many ways !!! to they both love rock and roll !!!
abrown2015 11 months ago
The show was a tribute to our past history.
It was supposed to be the singers tribute to that artist.
I think she did a really good job and sorry but I like her.
happymike44 11 months ago 3
thatz how tina performed back then and now. if fefe didn't portray tina well enough then the director or producers of the show would have given the role to someone else. there have been other artists that came on the show and portrayed the given legendary role of an 60s artist but they didn't sound or performed exactly like them.
compnetworks 1 year ago
She looks and sounds nothing like Tina but she still gives an excellent performance.
neonmoon82 1 year ago
I like this impersonation. Though Fefe doesn't have the vocal power for this kind of stuff. Nice though.
NiymbleFingers 1 year ago 5
This is so whack! She looks or sound nothing like Tina Turner. This sounds more like the Celine Dion version.
josbo51715 1 year ago 4
@josbo51715 this is the way the song was originally the ike and tina revamped the song and gave it a rock sound...
speakurmind21 1 year ago
that's how tina performed back in the day ppl. research!
dancingbugg 1 year ago 5
@dancingbugg It most certainly is NOT how Tina performed back in the day! Not at all...
theturners71 2 months ago
Shake them fringes, girl!!!
soulsista1220 1 year ago 2
Tina is the originator, if anything i would rather have them put Angela Bassett do it... AGAIN. FeFe tried way too hard
93spoonyg 1 year ago 3
Let Me See Any Of U Hatein Tricks Try & Do It.
& Man I Miss Fefe.ca.com I Use To Get On It When I Was Like 8
Shes Come A Long Way. Bow Down Haters
ShezStillViva 1 year ago
FEFE ROCKS!!!!!
YTLOVER02 1 year ago
i completely forgot she guest starred on this show!
merediths07 1 year ago
FeFe worked this song out!
Phyre702 1 year ago
Wow.
This is amazing.
Can't wait for Joy.
deejzilla 1 year ago
wow angela bassett was better way better
TheDangergirl35 1 year ago
the worse tiny tuner i ever seen.
deltarem94 1 year ago
Nicola Roberts sang it better!
bu11com 1 year ago
@bu11com Better than Tina Turner or Fefe?
brandonmachew3204 1 year ago
love..great song and voice
tendanate30 1 year ago
didn't know fefe did the tina turner.. she's good with the impersonation.
PierreProdInc 1 year ago
she sings it better than tina
Viruspirate 1 year ago
@Viruspirate WTF??!?! HOW?!?!?!
93spoonyg 1 year ago
Oh my GOD This girl is no Tina Turner, a drag queen can do better than this performance! Tina Turner does not move around like that on stage, well don't get me wrong she has a lot of energy but just the movements that this girl did for this song is nothing compared to the real deal. A TOTAL SHAME IF YOU ASK ME!!!!
LiquidDreams07 1 year ago
@LiquidDreams07
shut up
tendanate30 1 year ago
Fefe has a talent 2nd to none. Saw her for the
1st on the Rock and Roll Induction and she
was fantastic, too bad it was thru the credits
she is so good her talent shined past all that
good luck Fefe great job!
jesus919 1 year ago 3
This is was my favorite musical performance of all 3 seasons of American Dreams. Thank you so much for uploading it.
figlet 1 year ago 4
@figlet no problem, i'm just happy people are able to see it!
jaga185 1 year ago
VERY true to older Tina Turner performances, if you look bad at similar performances. She channeled her amazingly!!
Fefefan 1 year ago
Why thte hell is there always a comparison of artist on EVERY youtube video. Not only are ya'll bickering for no good cause, but your demeaning the artist themselves. If you really liked the artist you would respect their talent and support them instead of bashing them for doing something their manager or video director told them to do or try. Peopl eact like famous people don't have stylist and everything else under the sun. Anyway, I loved this performance from Fefe Dobson.
lildanial555 2 years ago
she did a ok job
ksha 2 years ago
She's trying too hard
taj1587 2 years ago
i don't mean any offence, for i've never really watched tina turner nor fefe dobson performed , but this performance kinda scared me..... like.. the way she moved and her facial expressions.. quite frightened me.
5posen 2 years ago
she does a really raelly good job
but no one can do Tina as good as Angela Bassett
jonoconner1 2 years ago 6
That's so cute. Never saw the show but it sounds great!
nellie2581 2 years ago
LOVE IT! <3
HowPoetic 2 years ago
I don't like FeFe as Tina. She seems to be making Tina into a charicature, as opposed to a real performer....hmmmm, not my favorite. Angela Bassett was AMAZING in the movie!
DamoneIsLegend 2 years ago 8
lmaaaaaaoo , fefe went to my school in toronto , its called Fleming Public School
LoverszObama 2 years ago
wow that's cool in your class or what? Please
FaithImaniroxs 2 years ago
Wow..Tina turner is a hard one to copy... I wonder if the producers had a hard time casting her here.... but fefe her does her justice I think!
gos11387 2 years ago 6
ALL OF YOU SUCK IT!! god and BTFW Rihanna is only famouse becaus eof er looks and accent so suck it!
TaintedPurelovers 2 years ago
lol kay
carmenkaylynne 2 years ago
she sounds good!!!!
xcheesecakequeen 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
it doesnt matter if rihanna copied fefe dobson or not because the fact remains that rihanna is more famous, successful and popular than ''what's her name''
fckinhawt01 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
y dont u go suck rihanna than thts y she got her ass kicked
nanacakes3 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
lmaooo
and when i get through sucking rihanna...she still gonna be more famous than that FLOP fefe dobson
fckinhawt01 2 years ago
lol, what's "done in the dark, comes to the light"
And when you steal " you reap what you sow"
Fefe can sit back and watch Rihanna if she wants. They're both people of course, but in my eyes, Fefe is innocent in this case.
But Rihanna's team and, possibly Rihanna herself will see their dream crumble
They're all a great big lie
...Oh yeah, Fefe's A GREAT chunk of more talent than Rihanna ever was.
She's not even a skank.
aGwEENapple 2 years ago 5
she did a great job and she may not sound like tina, tina's voice was deeper. i love fefes voice!
owl1210 2 years ago 3
omg i've heard the original version with tina turner! and yes, it's good! but i love fefe's version more! to everyone who thinks they're opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong, i'm not saying it's better, just that i enjoy fefe's more!
nomoreiloveyou 2 years ago
I looove Fefe
Norb0x 2 years ago 2
I luv FeFe but uh... Her voice aint as strong as Tina's and you can tell from this song.. lol nice try tho
mistabigg007 2 years ago 3
no ma'm. but damn i miss that show. it was so great
uncoverbrother 2 years ago 2
she's pretty damn good
FM897 2 years ago
she sound good
YungDaze402 2 years ago 2
THANK YOU!!!
I really like this sing and it sounds amazing =]
Xskatergirl13X 2 years ago
what song is she singing?
Xskatergirl13X 2 years ago
The song she is singing is called "River Deep Mountain High".
mrspage09 2 years ago
\> cont'd from below. She's young enough, if she really wants to pursue this, with a voice coach who'll be respectful of her wanting to sound like Tina and help her do so, she'll come far. Most teachers try to coax out the natural voice at least at first. But, she's established,...she has more pro's than con's.
Merrida100 3 years ago
Yeah I think Tina did move sort of like this, some of these are her signature moves and she does them also to Proud Mary. She has classic stances, arm moves, and shimmies unique to her flourishing movements. That's what most impersonators can't do. The voice comes easier but not the aura that is Tina.
That being said, I do think for when this song came out it was prior to heavy fringe years (she wore sweaters and longer skirts and long straight hair. But Fefe sure has the voice, IF she
Merrida100 3 years ago
Fefe's impression is not overstated. Tina really did act like this in the 60's. Although Tina didn't wear the 20's flapper dress in the late-60's. That look came later.
rasputin63 3 years ago 3
Tina wore clothes like this in the 60's and was a really wild kind of performer.
When she started she couldn't walk through the front door of many places.
Even now Tina puts on one heck of a show in person.
happymike44 3 years ago
i think she captured tina's attitude better than some other singers out there, even if her impression is overstated (but face it, tina really does act like that, people! and we love her for it)
i wish i could get a full version of her singing this song.
violetcloud 3 years ago 4
is it possible to download this version of the song?
HowPoetic 3 years ago
the singing is great. the acting may be a bit too much though. i think tina looked a little bit better than that. just sayin'.
weirdandkindacool 3 years ago
What the heck is she doing. It's like she's impersonating a robot
RyeLady99 3 years ago
dang she can SING.
hyst3ricglamour 3 years ago
FEFE DOBSON IS THE ULTIMATE SHIZZ!!! lol she's amazing. . .<3
HowPoetic 3 years ago
she did a great job.
tuchesuavae 3 years ago
I LOVE Fefe Dobson! ^-^
MusicMAAD 3 years ago 7
whatever happened to this show? I mean, it was wonderful. Fefe's wonderful in this!! she did a awesome job as Tina!!
HowPoetic 3 years ago
this is my favorite tina turner song
yeadime 3 years ago 21
LUV u fefe!
datickywickygurl 3 years ago 20
over done
BackStreetAngel14 3 years ago 2
tina over does it everytime
yeadime 3 years ago 2
THANK YOU!! Finally someone notices. She is horrible as tina turner. And she's waaay too young to be Tina.
I can't beleive they aired this performance
RyeLady99 3 years ago 3
Yeah I know
If the real Tina acted that way she would be the butt of every joke
BackStreetAngel14 3 years ago
i so agree...she was over dramatic and no soul for this.
blkicequeen 3 years ago
I definetly think they could have picked someone way better to play Tina for the show!
kriskross21 3 years ago
ugh haters im pretty sure if you did a bad performance im pretty sure you wouldn't want noone talking about you so ok...
meretteschipettes 3 years ago
Mya, Chilli from TLC, Mary J. Blige or Beyonce come to mind. Fefe was only 18 when she played this part and looked much younger. She also doesn't have the raw voice needed to convincingly pull of the portrayal convincingly.
VolumeSearcher 3 years ago 4
they based the reenactments on the ACTUAL performances the artists performed on american bandstand. therefore, tina must've acted like this
rjs5146 3 years ago
yeah but with people like tina turner with such character in their performances...it can easily turn into a bad impersonation which i believe this one is...she still has to be realistic. n e way.. i think Fefe sounded amazing on the song ..just a bad performance =)
blkicequeen 3 years ago
What? No Ike?! No abusive bastard on bass?
dadevi 3 years ago
"River Deep, Mountain High" was produced by Phil Specter, Ike had nothing to do with it.. well, other than to 'allow' Tina, if you will, to work with Phil Specter.
rwmusic 3 years ago
I'm talking about live performances. Not in the recording studio. Ike was always there playing in the background.
dadevi 3 years ago
That's what i'm saying.. Ike had absolutely nothing to do with this song, so he wouldn't be there. While "Ike and Tina" did later do their own version of it together, this version was only Tina Turner, no Ike at all.
rwmusic 3 years ago
DINOSAUR! at 1:22
lolz i LOVE Fefe
mskrys419 3 years ago
what is this from
?
clsimpson19 3 years ago
American Dreams...it was a TV show from 2002-2005 set in the 60s with American Bandstand and they had celebrities and singers play 60s singers
mskrys419 3 years ago
Really?
So every episode had different characters then?
TragicSorrows 3 years ago
yeah there was different characters in each...just look on the side at the other characters
mskrys419 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
shes a better actress than singer.
nigel1242001 3 years ago
fefe captured tina turner DOWN! she definitely did some studying b4 she did this show
princesspink75 3 years ago 8
i ♥ it!!!
Markisha2u 3 years ago
this is hot...fefe better get it!!! lol
smtann 3 years ago 4
What? is this a nasty comment?
leycorbin4ever 3 years ago
I never heard of this show. Yea Fefe did good though cuz Tina is dramatic! Lol she sounds great!
AmandaMewa 3 years ago 5
U shud wastch it, ,its the BOMB!
KingdomKupcake 3 years ago 2
actually tina was very dramatic with her performances..
so its kinda accurate!
BrittneyDominique 3 years ago 3
lol! she looked shock or she either got shocked. I dont think Tina is that stiff.. lol
vmlisaf09 3 years ago
1:23- 1:26..what in the hell was that?? lol look like she just got shockedXD
miaangel247 3 years ago 3
DINOSAUR!
mskrys419 3 years ago
this was ok not to good not too bad
MBossMan1996 3 years ago
Fefe is talented!
MagicalAl 3 years ago 4
what movie is this?
EliAhidet09 3 years ago
American Dreams...it was a TV show from 2002-2005 set in the 60s with American Bandstand and they had celebrities and singers play 60s singers
ABCjen868 3 years ago
What is this from?
ambrosha14 3 years ago
American Dreams...it was a TV show from 2002-2005 set in the 60s with American Bandstand and they had celebrities and singers play 60s singers
ABCjen868 3 years ago
Fefe did good loved this enthusiasm she gave love ya Fefe
EcstaticRop 3 years ago
love it!
gregew6 3 years ago
whats the song called?
rollerstud98 4 years ago
"River Deep Mountain High"
bandb7 3 years ago
IT's because the Feef is a rocker
amssk8rgrl777 4 years ago
Of course there's only one Tina Turner. You guys are f*ckin' retards- if everyone compared them as stringently as you do, NO ONE would ever portray Tina Turner and no one would know that song exists, some 40 years after it was made.
Thumbs up to FD for taking that challenge on- I dig her take on the song and the show's recreation of Phil Spector's sound.
ferstday 4 years ago
This is no Tina Turner! Tina is 100% better
harrygild 4 years ago
ugh, i like fefe but she ruined the song!
marudell 4 years ago 3
this is terrible
ERGSEG 4 years ago
Fefe has the dance moves down pat, but her voice is not up to the challenge. As much as it pains me to say it, Beyonce would have been better.
jagettainc 4 years ago
tina is and was crazy! fefe is awesome!!!
nikkiemaus 4 years ago
You are crazy. No know nothing about Tina
BardleyCfan 4 years ago
Fefe did great!! No she was no Tina but she has to stick to her own style! she can never abandon that and her style is great. To those who didn't like her as Tina remember that!!
leycorbin4ever 3 years ago 2
Did Tina Turner really strut around like she was having a seizure? lmao BTW, Fefe was hot!
trenchnurse 4 years ago 4
*jaw drops*
oh.
mah.
waffles.
ceravis 4 years ago 3
D*** my ears and eyes are f****** bleeding!
windrix1 4 years ago
wifey right there.
alicia1990 4 years ago 3
haha fefe dobson was wikkid!! she is soo kool!!
laceyandskye 4 years ago
yay fefe was awesome!
damianusaf 4 years ago
Theres only one Tina Turner!!!
Never will be another Legendary Diva like her
teachupligg52 4 years ago
She definately doesn't suit the role of Tina. Where in the hell did those stiff dance moves come from at 1:22. That was horrible. Voice isn't powerful enough. Fefe should have turned down this role or studied Tina closer to get the moves right.
Trelle86 4 years ago
i agree the dance isnt that good, but for fefe the voice was reallyu good
liljaymd2005 4 years ago
thats how tina danced in her time
SWEETDEE007 4 years ago 4
Tina never danced like that
BardleyCfan 4 years ago 2
Who Cares, Anyway?...If You Like It "You Like It" , If You Don't "You Don't"...Everyone Is Entitled To Their Own Opinion...I Liked It, Think Of It As Holloween...It's Not Really You, You're Just Having Fun!
ScienceProjek 4 years ago
Totally
windrix1 4 years ago
omg fefe did so good, i never wouldve thought that she would do something like this, aw im so proud of her.
LaughOutLoud98 4 years ago 2
omgooosh she looks sooo nice and she did suuuch a good job..daamn i loove it
utap123 4 years ago
Thanks for uploading this. This is really cool! Fefe is Canadian. :)
spektor86 4 years ago
LOL I LOVE HER VERSION OF THE SONG
kekoaT 4 years ago
the celine dion version of this song is good too
littlelotte86 4 years ago
i dont know why people are critising. She is doing a good job, besides Fefe is dircted to do that and dance like that. I think she is amazing and a great inspiring talent. before judging, you should try a little understanding first.
Fefe your awsome
minidryhire 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
what da fuck?!!!! lol fefe looks stupid!!
Mimimariah12 4 years ago
i love fefe, but HELLLLLLLLLLLLL no. I mean she sounds fine but she doesnt suit the role of tina turner.
kedisha17 4 years ago 3
Tina Turner is better much better
long live the Queen of Rock !!
ryansheila 4 years ago
wat is da name of dis dong omg sum1 help me?
steph2steph2008 4 years ago
River Deep, Mountain High
ScienceProjek 4 years ago
i love fefe, she is awesome!
dragonfirestorm2002 4 years ago
I am not a fan of fefe but I LOVE this verison!!!! plus I Iove this show! i MISS it. I wonder if its available anywhere? LET ME WHERE I CAN DOWNLOAD IT, IF U KNOW. THANX
liquid114 4 years ago
Fefe did a good job
Nonetheless123 4 years ago
Terrible nobody can sing like Tina. Tina is the best the Queen Diva, Beyonce would have done a better job.
gillianhenry 4 years ago
I don't think she moves like Tina, but I like her version and the song.
jmarti2006 4 years ago
i dont either but she did do a nice job. <3
buddykun 4 years ago
abreena123: i agree...Tina looks NOTHING like that.
Koifish07 4 years ago
ahh i love fefe she's awesome.
negritabxtch 4 years ago
she looks drunk as hell
abreena123 4 years ago
That guy she's talking to is an asshole. Ugly jerk. And she's stupid for dealing with him.
Hauraunah 4 years ago
she went thriller 1:24 lmaoo HORRIBLE TINA SHOULD BE MAD
sunshine69877 4 years ago
i doubt this would bother Tina as much as you guys would think.
StillaVirgin 4 years ago
I'm sure you could do soooo much better! That's why you're sitting at home, criticizing successful people. Get a life! Lol. I'm here enjoying this video, I don't need to come across your hater crap!
spektor86 4 years ago 2
Loved It.
PS
people who argue on YouTube are lame.
xofa11enange1ox 4 years ago
haha. seriously.
dividedcondition 4 years ago
An insult to Tina...sorry
aaront3000 4 years ago 2
we know LOL
princess899p 4 years ago
was this on a movie or a tv show or something? does anyone know what it's called????
NkreesThaPEACE 4 years ago
Is a tv show,it´s over now.
tomsorvolo17 4 years ago