Rodney bases much of his Heartland Model on the X lineage, claiming that Native American X lineages are closely related to Jewish X lineages.
This claim has been proven false in the last few years. Native American X lineages have been found to be distantly related to Middle Eastern X lineages. They have also been shown to have been in the Americas for the same length of time as the other 4 Asian lineages or about 15,000 years.
Good job Rodney for great answers. Mr Rodney gave a powerful testimony at the end also. Im not sure if this video is a anti video or not but it sure didnt seem like it due to Mr. Rodney's great answers.
good interview and good answers from Meldrum. We know that Heavenly Father loves us and that he is the same yesterday, now, and forever. There are many things that we cannot explain as humans but as long as we have faith, which means obedience to His laws for faith without work is dead according to James, we will be saved through the atonement of Jesus Christ and that all of us are saved through the grace and mercy of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.
I thought this was really good you can shore see he was trying to catch Rodney in and snare or trying to twist his words all and all I thought it was good
The interviewer isn't really OPEN to Mormonism--even though he asks what appear to be sincere questions.
If he was REALLY open, he would be eager to find out more about the NUMEROUS new discoveries the other man shared! I'm not saying he should have accepted them as truth on the spot, but a SINCERE seeker of truth welcomes new evidence--regardless of its source! It's sad this young man wastes so much of this gentleman's time acting as if he really WANTS to discover the truth about the Church.
Why do you allow tfwaters to bombard the comments section? She brushes the meaningful content of others aside with near endless lds diatribe and misuse of the Bible. She simply can't abide honest facts about her church that expose it's dark spiritual roots and leadership.
Speaking of the 10 Tribes (King:Joseph) and the Jews (King:Judah), "Moreover I will make a COVENANT of peace with them; it shall be an EVERLASTING COVENANT with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore." Ezek 37:26
In the epistle of Paul given to the Hebrews, he said quoted Deut (Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT) and then Paul said, "A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth bold is ready to vanish away. Then verily the first covenant had ALSO ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary." "And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."
"When thou shalt vow a vow unto the Lord thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the Lord thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform...according as thou hast vowed unto the Lord thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth." Deut 23:23
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the PROMISE is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call....And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart." Acts 2:38, 46
Jeremiah goes on to talk about the ordinances of the Celestial and theTerrestrial Orders..."If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever."....and the whole earth will be cursed. Paul speaking to the Corinthian saints also about the Resurrection of the Dead, "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."
But this shall be the COVENANT that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my LAW in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME....for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Jere 31:31-34
Immortality (resurrection: living forever) and Eternal Life (living in God's presence forever) does not guarantee the same thing.This is why Faith (believing in something) without Works (without keeping one's obligations) is dead. One cannot be blessed with Eternal Life (living in the Celestial Kingdom in God's presence) without keeping one's covenants with God. This is why you were confused with the idea of Eternal Marriage, you have a faulty understanding about making and keeping covenants.
What is it that separates man from God? Sin--for no unclean thing can enter into His presence. Adam's transgression caused physical and spiritual death to enter into the world. The Resurrection of Jesus Christ unconditionally overcomes physical death (all will be resurrected and live again) and the Atonement of Jesus Christ conditionally overcomes spiritual death (separation from God). With this contractual agreement Jesus atones for our sins--when we keep the covenant (stipulations).
"Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." It is our belief, that in order to gain the highest degree of glory in the Celestial Kingdom (where God resides) a man and woman must be married by the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage and then be worthy of those obligations to each other and to God. Many are working together to build these relationships, however, only they who abide Celestial Law will be worthy to live in the presence of God.
The institution of marriage is a wonderful thing! It was created to support the betterment of humanity and to safeguard the rearing of children. Just because one is married for "time and all eternity" does not guarantee that marriage will be blessed with that promise. Relationships are built by keeping one's obligations to each other and each person is responsible for doing that. Those relationships will continue into the eternal future as one is worthy of maintaining them.
Contractual agreements between two or more parties always include promises and stipulations. When a couple is married in the temple, they covenant to each other and to God, to keep their covenant (the stipulations) and when they do, they will receive the promised rewards for their faithfulness. Marriage takes work and when it fails it is usually caused because of the selfishness of one or both thus breaking the covenant. When there is abuse or neglect the Lord will not bless that marriage.
Isa 55:11 "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."
Deut 28:58 "If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;"
Psalm 138:2 "for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."
If you truly seek HIM, search HIS Word & you will know HIM.
Eph 4:14-15 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ"
Don't be fooled by Mormons when they present their "gospel" message.At a glance, it looks like a normal Christian message but with a few hooks to catch the undiscerning, like the Church fell away completely and Joseph Smith restored it, or eternal marriage. If you compare these claims to what the Bible actually says, you will find them out. Please note, the basic message they present is just the facade. Behind it are antichrist doctrines and many Mormons have had more than 1 eternal marriage.
"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him." Jesus had supped with the Father and had the same heart, mind, and will of God the Father...therefore he was "Beloved Son." Just as John the Beloved was to Jesus for he patterned himself after Jesus. Jesus prayed to the Father, "O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these (beloved apostles) have known that thou hast sent me."
When we seek to know the heart, mind, and will of the Lord, and accept it fully we will not stand apart from God, but we will "become one" of the same mind and heart. As we seek to know HIM, we can develop a personal relationship and sup with him becoming "one with him." This is the same thing that Jesus taught the apostles when he prayed to the Father for them, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us."
Brigham Young taught death to inter-racial couples:
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the AFRICAN RACE? If the WHITE man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the PENALTY, under the LAW OF GOD, IS DEATH ON THE SPOT. THIS WILL ALWAYS BE SO.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110)
Folks this was the 2nd Mormon Prophet speaking. Look it up for yourself. I ask you, is it racism or not?
This was the spirit behind the foundation of the Mormon church.
Perhaps Mormons feel that we should pray to see if it is racist or not - we may get a witness from the Mormon spirit. I'm being facetious, yes, but this stuf is horrific. Read below and look it up in their own literature. Maybe current LDS members do not hold such views, but their founding prophets (so called) did. Today's Mormons are of the same spirit. You will not find any such conduct given as teaching to the Church among true believers in the Bible or today.
“Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, THEIR INTELLIGENCE STUNTED, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism.” (The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157)
This is just sick. Mormons should be ashamed to be Mormon.
“The descendants of Ham, besides A BLACK SKIN which has ever been a curse that has followed an apostate of the holy priesthood, as well as a BLACK HEART, have been servants to both Shem and Japheth, and the ABOLITIONISTS ARE TRYING TO MAKE VOID THE CURSE OF GOD, BUT IT WILL REQUIRE MORE POWER THAN MAN POSSESSES TO COUNTERACT THE DECREES OF ETERNAL WISDOM.”
“...he was a rebel and AN ASSOCIATE OF LUCIFER IN PRE-EXISTENCE, and though he was a liar from the beginning...he began in this life to serve God....he came out in open rebellion, fought God, worshiped Lucifer, and slew Abel.... “As a result of his rebellion, CAIN WAS CURSED WITH A DARK SKIN; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who ARE NOT WORTHY to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage..." (Mormon Doctrine, p. 102)
"Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but (until) he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." These secrets (mysteries of the Kingdom)...are given by revelation administered through the priesthood and built upon a foundation of apostles and prophets....Jesus Christ being the Chief corner stone. The apostles asked Jesus why he spoke to others by parables, to which he said, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."
Sadly, the Book f Mormon teaches that black skin is a curse for sins. =(
2 Nephi 5:21 "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
Blacks were excluded from the mormon priesthoods as a result for over 130 years. After the growing social pressure of racial equality in the 60s and 70s, the Mormon church sheepishly presented a new "revelation" - blacks were no longer excluded - thay had paid their due. Astonishingly, the black skin did not disappear. This topic is always an awkward one for Mormons, and their efforts to squirm out of it would be funny if not so sickeningly yellow-bellied.
@RPM11111 We could have followed what other churches did as a result of "social pressure" during a time of civil unrest, however, we had the faith to stand firm to our beliefs and the counsel of prophets when it was not convenient to stand firm. We choose to look to a higher power (God) for the direction of a change in the Kingdom instead of doing it as you say during the social pressure of the 60's. We received the counsel to do the right thing, at the right time, for the right reason.
Not only the Jews returning to a foundation of apostles and prophets through the rock of revelation....but for the whole House of Israel and his companions. The birthright belonged to Joseph of Egypt. When the House of Israel is about to perish for the "want of food" (bread of life/living waters) Joseph will be prepared with "silos of grain" and will be there to protect them from the "famine of hearing the words of the Lord." The 12 Tribes are coming together now looking for such sustenance.
Mormons teach that GOD, whom Christians believe created the universe, lives on a far away planet called "Kolob". =(
Mormon Elder Bruce R. McConkie taught:
Kolob means "the first creation." It is the name of the planet "nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God." It is "first in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. . . . One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth." (Book of Abraham, pp. 34-35; Abra. 3:3-9.)
Elijah must come to turn the hearts of the Jews to the prophets, and the prophets unto the Jews (restoring the covenants of their Fathers); lest the Lord come and smite the whole earth with a curse and all flesh be consumed before him--but in order for this to happen the Lord's House must be reestablished in the top of the mountains thus He "can set his hand to recover the remnant of his people" and "proceed to do a marvellous work and a wonder" by making " a new everlasting covenant with them."
Joseph Smith claimed that men could become gods when he stated,
"Here then, is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you. . . ."(Teachings, 1976).
Satan says, Genesis 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
But GOD says inIsaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."
And in Isaiah 44:6 HE says, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
@RPM11111 Concerning "before me there was no God formed neither after me." John also said that "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." Jesus/Jehovah had always declared the words of the Father for he was "in the bosom of the Father" residing in the central place (heart) of habitation of God=Heaven. Stephen attested to this, when he said he "saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God."
@RPM11111 "I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me...thou hast not known me." Jesus was in the bosom of the Father. According to Jewish custom to be in the "bosom of another" means that person's heart (central place) is in harmony with another. This is how Jesus "supped with his disciples." They sat at the table reclined and their back rested upon the bosom of their "beloved" disciple. This jester shows they are of the same heart and mind....beloved of the Lord.
@RPM11111 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel (Lost 10 Tribes), and with the house of Judah:Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . . I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. . . . He was once a man like us; yea that God himself, the Father dwelt on an earth (Teachings, 1976).
"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the [2nd] coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:And he shall turn (restore) the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." Mal 4:5-6
"Recent U.S. data from the National Survey of Families and Households indicate that about 26 percent of both Latter-day Saints and non-LDS have experienced a divorce (Heaton et al., Table 2)."
This makes a laughing stock of Mormonisms "eternal marriage ceremony", because among these, wedded couples are one day bonded for time and eternity at the temple - then they get divorced and each move on, married to completely different spouses and go through the same "eternal marriage" ceremony again.
It seems eternal is not so eternal for Mormons or the Mormon god, because the LDS church hierarchy allow this.
Matthew 5:32 "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."
Either divorced Mormons have been all been in adulterous marriages or they are currently in adulterous marriages.
Saul became faithful Paul after his "eyes opened" to realize that he was fighting AGAINST-not FOR the God of Abraham. Preparing him to teach this to Israel (who had fallen into apostasy for rejecting Christ), then to teach to the pagan Gentiles (descendants of Noah who had fallen away), and warn the new Christians--not to be deceived, that Christ's Return, "shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST" (Apostasy). Thus another "famine of hearing the word of the Lord" before His Return.
"Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy; That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death."
In order to build up the Kingdom of God on the earth one must use God's plans with HIS "tactics." "Hence many are called, but few are chosen. No power or influence can or ought to be maintained...only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
Just like Saul...who believed he was doing the "right thing" (by using all the wrong tactics) this is how you pierce yourself by "kicking against the pricks." You assume that I am the one who causes this reaction (anger/hate) within you...when this is the tactic that have chosen for yourself and you use it to "serve" God. But you should know, this spirit of contention...puts a person at enmity with God and it does not serve him or His gospel, it only hurts you and nothing good can come of it.
In order to be tutored by the Spirit of God-- one must know that he should pray, but an evil spirit teaches not a man to pray-- but instead that he MUST NOT pray. Evil spirits want to direct our full attention so we chase after it, thereby turning us away from the influence of the Holy Ghost that would have directed us to pray to God and have a personal relationship with him.
@tfwaters Piffle! What if you're praying for things that GOD has already condemned in HIS Word? According to you, we should still pray about it until the "holy spirit" gives you a "witness". You are as subtle as Satan in the garden. May the LORD manifest to you HIS wrath at your wickedness very soon, and may you repent and be Saved.
@tfwaters To pray if Mormonism is the truth as akin to saying, "Yea, hath God said...?" No surprise when you consider what Paul says:
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."
@RPM11111 It is comical that your "preconceived notions" would have led you to believe that I was being "persecuted" (believing me to have a persecution complex). But I know that it is not ME that you persecute. When the Son of Man comes in his glory, he shall say to those on his right, "I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me."
The antidote that conquers all is Love...not hate. If you make it your mission to chase after darkness, you will find yourself in the gall of bitterness, even if your intentions started out as "good" it doesn't matter. Those who actively seek to find the Devil will find him. He is the master deceiver--don't flatter yourself thinking that you are more intelligent or tricky. Those who seek after evil eventually wake up one day becoming the very thing that they are attempting to destroy.
@tfwaters So, you admit lds are darkness, then? Once again, your watery drivel opposes the Scriptures of the Bible. I commanded to uncover and expose dakness:
Ephesians 5:13 "But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light."
2 Timothy 4:2 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."
Your prayers are not to the GOD of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob.
If one does not focus on the goodness they learn from their own belief system, but instead chases after the "badness" of differing systems--- you are missing the mark about the "good news" that your own gospel brings. If you think that you are following God by seeking out the devil so you can destroy him....you are deceiving yourself. You can't fight Satan with Satan's tactics. You only fight darkness by living a life of Light (living an exemplary life like Christ lived).
@tfwaters What about when Christ said such things as: "Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel" (Matt 23:24), or when He said: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves" (Matt 23:15)? In fact read the whole of Matthew 23. Was Jesus wrong when he pointed out the badness of the false teachers in His day? Was He not being "christ-like". =)
You sure are offensive in your attempt of rooting out what you believe to be the "root of evil." Quick to point the finger of blame at others. There is good and bad in everyone....not just the "other person." When someone doesn't support your perception about life--you get extremely defensive needing to protect yourself. You can sure dish it out, but you can't handle any reproof. You act as though your perception of Biblical "truths" is the only one and others must align them selves to you.
Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."
Jesus clearly inferring His true identity, but showing men theirs - none are good. Matt 7:13-27 gives an account of your like.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
@RPM11111 Yes you are right...the truth can hurt! But that same truth can heal and help a person find the love of the Lord back into their life again. Just like when Saul who believed that he was doing the Lord's work through persecuting the saints (by using Satan's tactics). The Lord appeared to him saying, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?" Saul responded back, "Who art thou, Lord?" Then the Lord said, "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Saul overseen the stoning to death of Stephen and other true Christians when he was in darkness. You are comparing that to what is going on here? You have no idea what persecution is, but correction is one thing it is not. This is just more of your misuse of Scripture with a flavor of "persecution syndrome". I invited you to visit "voice of the martyrs" online, but you clearly haven't taken me up on that, or you would not be making such pathetic claims. You're "conscience is seared".
@RPM11111 You were offended (the truth hurts) because I gave you constructive criticism which I called "pointed" (even though it was for your own good). Then I showed you how an individual hurts them self by "kicking against the pricks." Little do you know...you cause your own hurt by fighting against the very thing (Christ) that you profess to serve. Those "pricks" are there to help to direct you to a better path (charity/love instead of intolerance/hate) instead you pierce yourself by it.
@tfwaters False accusations also hurt. Perpetuated lies can cause offence also. You're a hypocrite and extremely deluded. Matt16:23 "But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."
You accuse me of "hate" but make no place for correction even when I have given a plethora of verses that refute your position and you give not one Scripturally sound response.
@RPM11111 Then the righteous shall say, "Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in or naked, and clothed thee? or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?" Then HE shall say, "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto ONE OF THE LEAST of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." I may not be of value to you because I am LDS but he doesn't see it that way--he takes it personally.
Matt 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Bye, and may Christ remove the scales from your eyes.
I see the importance of people knowing what they believe & living that belief. If a person is a Hindu, Christian, Jew--they should be their best self by living their professed belief. I am not condemning religion;I am not condemning you by judging you as a person (that is God's position) I have only addressed words and actions. Yet you call me dishonest, ridiculous, & self-serving while defending lies. You may have a poor opinion about my beliefs but does that justify condemning me as a person?
You have nothing sound to offer - not a single Bible verse to back your position. You can copy and paste a verse as good as anyone, but your lack of understanding beggars belief. You try to sound wise, but all you have are the lofty thoughts of men, vain philosophy - disuising yourself as minister of righteousness - just like your "prophet Joseph Smith."
@RPM11111 Wow!! You are easily provoked! I'm sorry that my posts hit such a nerve--it was meant as constructive not destructive criticism. And I'm sorry that you are of the disposition to think that I am mean spirited and dishonest for making such pointed comments. However, I don't think that way of you--I just see that you have a lot of preconceived notions that cause you to miss the mark and then you draw on the scriptures to justify your position (ego at play instead of the truth at play).
@tfwaters Yes, I tend to respond slightly in the flesh when I encounter such dishonesty and guile. I admit I need to learn to respond with more gentleness. May Christ help me to that end.
What about you?
"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks"??? On the contrary, I am finding hard to walk away, actually. You clearly are gifted in causing such levels of frustration in people that they find it hard to walk away quietly. You are only affirming my experience of Mormons - lost & dishonest.
Like I said earlier, I am not playing a game. You have taken your personal opinion as the Standard for Truth and you attempt to justify your ruler by cherry picking the scriptures to prove your "rightness." When a person does that--they become a law unto themselves. This is not how one is taught BY the scriptures through the Spirit...it only justifies one's chosen view. Now you say I'm "placing myself beyond reach" as though you actually care (proving your "christian" virtue).
Why are u writing comments as though in response to me, without actually responding under my comments? I had no clue that u were putting this stuff down until I wondered why I hadn't heard from u for so long. I'm glad I popped back to check. Here u are pretending to put me straight and I don't even know that ur comments are for me. Ur underhanded AND dishonest. I'm not surprised - all u can do is resort to such tactics because u have no truth in u, just watery diatribe.
A covenant is an agreement in which two parties make commitments to each other. Each party takes upon himself, as part of his acceptance of the covenant, certain obligations that pertain to the relationship. In a gospel covenant, we enter into sacred agreements with God, promising our obedience to his will. In turn, he has promised glorious blessings to us if we obey and serve him.
Quotes from prophet Joseph Smith in The King Follett Discourse:
P12 "The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself. I know that my testimony is true"
P13 "That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal with our Father in Heaven."
Page 14 - I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself."
"We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see." (Teachings of the Prophet J. Smith, pg. 345)
Satan is Jesus brother -
"He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous...this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind." (M.R. Hunter, Gospel Through the Ages, pg.15)
"papers represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses 2:210)
Only polygamists become gods -
"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses 11:269)
@tfwaters More on what LDS won't want to tell you:
"When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken--He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:50)
There are many more heretical LDS teachings to come.
Mormons teach that Jesus was conceived by normal sexual relations, not through the Holy Spirit -
"..how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father. The difference between Jesus Christ and other men is this: Our fathers in the flesh are mortal men, who are subject unto death: but the Father of Jesus Christ in the flesh is the god of Heaven" (Joseph F. Smith, Family Home Evening Manual, 1972, pg. 125)
Mormons won't be happy for you to know their founding "prophet", Joseph Smith made false prophesies -
For instance, in 1835 Smith claimed that the Lord would again come in just 56 years. We would gather from this "prophecy" that Jesus Christ would again come to earth on or before 1891; no doubt Joseph Smith was incorrect (History of the church 2:182).
... or that in 1832 Joseph Smith stated in Doctrine & Covenants, section 84, verses 4 and 5, "this temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it..."
To this day the spot consecrated by Smith fails to be the sight of a great temple, but instead is covered with a well-kept lawn.
@tfwaters Two can play your game. You keep quoting things from the Bible as though they were the heart of Mormonism. Yet, what you are quoting does nothing to alleviate your position as heretical & apostate. You have ignored many of the issues raised and tried to rid them from view by inserting myriad quotes to disguise yourself as Christian. So, in like manner, I will post as many heretical points from your LDS church's teachings to ensure others can see them for what they are - apostate. Like?
@RPM11111 I'm not playing a game. Instead of having a meaningful discussion--you make rude comments that you attempt to justify through the Bible and so I refute your words by the same source and you can't handle it and attempt to insult me further. This is what liberals do when they get caught and need to save face. You believe quoting scriptures justifies your un-Christlike actions? I rather feel sorry for you--you need to find a different approach by taking Christ as your model of behavior.
"The ego has a hard time handling the potential threat of being proved wrong."
Sounds like u were talking about yourself.
Where have u refuted me? You quote verses then add ur own diatribe to try to convince yourself and others that u are a Biblical scholar, but any honest person can see that u have done nothing to refute the glaring deficiencies with ur church's doctrine. People are trying to reach u and when u can't handle their honest observations, u get upset.
If u are referring to me as a liberal (insult?), then show me where my doctrine puts me in that category. You're resorting to name-calling.
You said: "you believe quoting scriptures justifies your un-Christlike actions"
Can I have details please? Because all I have done is be honest about ur doctrine, teaching and use of Scripture. Christ and the disciples confronted false teachers and chastised them. However, they didn't defend lies, twist Scripture or the words of others like u do.
I'll tell you what else they didn't do - they didn't say things that were clearly unbiblical then try to hide them from public view - like you do when you remove and spam your own ridiculous incriminating comments. You're dishonesty is clear for all to see. I guess ur the one with the ego - a Mormons who purposefully places themselves beyond reach, preferring to cling to a self-serving view of urself as an accomplished Bible-teacher, despite the efforts of other to highlight ur error.
The patriarch Abraham committed himself unwaveringly to the Lord’s service and was privileged to enter into a covenant with him. The Bible describes the blessings the Lord promised Abraham because of his faith and obedience.
When God covenanted with Abram, he also received a new name which signified the token of covenant that God made with him. The Abrahamic Covenant promised that his seed would receive an everlasting inheritance of land, they would be numberless, establish an everlasting covenant (Priesthood) with his seed, that through him/seed the earth would be blessed.
Genesis 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
The Melchizedek priesthood holds the keys of the knowledge of God, the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom, to have the heavens opened and enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, to officiate the Spirit of the Law & the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost (purged by fire).
The Levitical priesthood holds the keys of the ministering of angels, to administer in outward ordinances, to officiate the letter of the Law, and the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
The new covenant of the gospel of Jesus Christ—the command to repent, be baptized by water and by the Spirit /fire for remission of sins, and through Christ’s blood we become justified and sanctified of sin.
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." "...but ye are washed (water), but ye are sanctified (spirit/fire/blood), but ye are justified (by blood) in the name of the Lord Jesus.."
In order for a religious leader to hold the power and authority of God--he must have inherited it or else be ordained to either the Levitical/Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood. The Priesthood is the everlasting Covenant that God makes with man allowing him to speak and act in His name. Ask your preacher which priesthood he has. "The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant." Isa 24:5
On the Day of Atonement (once a year), the Melchizedek High Priest (Prophet) was allowed to go beyond the veil in the temple "to offer up sacrifice, first for his owns sins, and then for the people's." This was NOT done by a Levitical priest...but by the Melchizedek High Priest, as a type and shadow of Jesus Christ, who would in like fashion make an everlasting sacrifice to accomplish the Infinite and Eternal sacrifice for sin, "for this he did once, when he offered up himself."
"And they truly were many high priests (prophets), because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man [Christ], because he continueth forever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself."
Heb 5-7 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?" (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.)
Abraham was given this high priesthood calling from Melchizedek himself, and later Levi was honored with a lesser divided portion of it. Moses was a Levite by birth however, he was a High Priest (Prophet) officiating through the higher Melchizedek priesthood (like Abraham). Prophets could come from any of the 12 tribes because descent was not required. Another potion of priesthood responsibilities was given to Judah, but the birthright belonged to Joseph. (1 Chron 5:2)
The Gift of the Holy Ghost is a priesthood ordinance. The Apostles baptized by water through the administration of the Aaronic/Levitical priesthood, afterwhich Christ came to baptize with Fire and the Holy Ghost through the administration of the Melchizedek priesthood. Hence Matthew cried, saying, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."
Once again...Jesus offers the great Intercessory Prayer—
John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee (Elohim:Father) the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
In the beginning was the Word (Jehovah/Jesus:Son), and the Word was with God (Elohim:Father), and the Word was God (Creator). The same (Jehovah/Jesus:Son) was in the beginning with God (Elohim: Father). All things were made by him (Jehovah/Jesus:Son); and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him (Jehovah/Jesus:Son) was life; and the life was the light of men (light of Christ). And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
@RPM11111 Here you go again! John said, "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
After Adam--no man had seen God the Father (Elohim) but men had seen God the Son (Jehovah/Jesus). The Son is Elohim's mediator, relaying Elohim's words to man...therefore J/J is the WORD of God since the beginning revealing himself and the Law to Moses.
After Adam and Eve partook of the of the forbidden fruit--they were cast out of the presence of Elohim and the only way they could communicate with him was through the Mediator (Jehovah/Jesus). They were commanded to pray to the Father in the name of the Son. Since that time, the only way to approach divinity was to go through the Son (Jehovah/Jesus). During Isaiah's day the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was Jehovah/Jesus. Moses saw Jehovah but no man had seen the Elohim the Father.
You said: "They (Adam & Eve) were commanded to pray to the Father in the name of the Son"
Can you provide a Bible verse for that, please?
Also, isn't it the teaching of your prophet, Brigham Young, that Adam is the only GOD you have to do with? So, if he was a god, who was his god? And, oh, if you could reconcile your answer with Isa 43:10 and 44:6 that would be appreciated.
@RPM11111 No the Adam/God theory is a misrepresentation of Young's teachings. People think that since Jehovah took upon flesh and dwelt amongst us as Jesus Christ--that this was the first time humanity was commanded to pray to the Father in the name of Christ. But in fact, Adam and Eve taught this to their children. Moses understood it, however, he only revealed the lesser law (Mosaic) to Israel because they needed a school master to bring them to Christ--who would come and reveal the Father.
God and his Infinite Truths do not change, they are constant--just like a Lighthouse. On the other hand, we are constantly changing beings, our opinions are like a wave of the sea and driven with the wind and tossed. Yet we have been given the Standard to look to, and ONE who is waiting, willing, and capable to provide the needed assistance to understand that standard. A sure foundation has been provided through the power of the Holy Ghost to help us stand in a world of constant commotion.
@RPM11111 All people have access to the influence of the Holy Ghost which comes and goes, however, only they who have had the "laying on of hands" (baptism of fire & baptism by water by one having authority) is given the Gift of the Holy Ghost to be as a constant companion. "Then laid they (apostles) their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money.." Acts 8:;17-18,
Eph 1:12-13 "That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise."
Read also Acts 10:46-48 - believers who had RECIEVED the Holy Spirit before baptism or laying on of hands.
I see I'm wasting my time. You're willfully dishonest with the Bible, as I predicted. I can only pray for you.
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 6But let him aask in bfaith, nothing cwavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Great, but LDS have wavered in their entirety from the Biblical Gospel, Jesus Christ and the Church He began. They have wavered in many other things, e.g., Adam is god/Adam is not god; Blacks are forbidden the priesthood/now they are not; the hill cumorah is in Palmyra, NY/no it's in Central America.
The BoM has over 3000 word changes since the first "perfect" edition.
D&C Has had about 2800 changes since it's origin. Your church is not quite the "solid oak tree" you try to portray.
@RPM11111 The "wavering" is your opinion and is not based upon fact. The Adam/God theory is a misrepresentation of Young's teachings. God has a plan, each dispensation of time, the Lord directed his gospel to the Covenant people, first to Jew and then to Gentile. Would you say that because Gentiles were forbidden the priesthood and then allowed later to be "wavering" too? The Gentiles did not receive the opportunity to receive the priesthood until God willed it and they were ready to accept it.
None of which means black skin is a curse for sins, which disqualified blacks from the priesthood. It's a farse and you try to defend it.
As for Young's Adam-god theory:
"Adam came into the garden of Eden with a celestial body and one of his many wives, he is our Father and God. The Father, not the Holy Spirit, conceived Jesus with the Virgin Mary." Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50 (April 9, 1852).
How do you misrepresent that - it's only one of many clear quotes from him?
@RPM11111You forget that Paul was speaking to the Ephesian saints who were already baptized by water and by the Spirit/Fire. They had already received the Gift of the Holy Ghost which is given by the laying on of hands by a Melchizedek priesthood holder. This priesthood carries the "sealing power" in which the ordinances performed on earth are then recognized in heaven and recorded in the Lamb's book of Life by the Holy Spirit of Promise. Usually a person isn't aware of when this happens.
Are you serious? How about Bible verses to substantiate your claims...
Who was this Melchizedek priest and where is it recorded that all of the Ephesians had hands laid on them by him? Where is it recorded that he was a Melchizedek priest. Where is it recorded that this Melchizedek priesthood is conferred by laying on of hands or has the "sealing power? Where is it recorded that others, besides Jesus hold this office? Where are all the LDS temple ordinances recorded in the Bible?
@tfwaters Additionally, your understaning of the Jewish priesthood is abysmal. Jews only became Jews because they were GOD's people. The Levites (Aaronic) were the only Jews given the priesthood, not because of their sinlessness or race, it was a passed on through lineage. The rest of the Jews were not forbade it because of their sinfulness, and they weren't black-skinned either. They sacrificed animals for sins. That priesthood was done away with when Jesus came, but you can't see that.
@RPM11111 MY understanding of the Jewish priesthood is abysmal? The duties of the Levitical priesthood included: the teaching of the Law, offering the sacrifices, maintaining the Tabernacle and the Temple, officiating in Holy places, inspecting ceremonially unclean persons, adjudicated disputes, and functioned as tax collectors. THEY WERE NOT PROPHETS….one had to hold the higher priesthood (Melchizedek) in order to function as a prophet.
The requirement for holding the Levitical priesthood was pedigree “by birth with father and mother descending from the loins of Levi.” The requirement for holding the Melchizedek priesthood was strictly righteousness, “Without father, without mother, without descent.” (Heb 7:3) It is the difference between the office of a Levitical priest and the office of a Melchizedek High Priest.
When a person has received a witness through the Spirit of Truth concerning the individual principles and ordinances of the Gospel---they then have a solid foundation to help them to separate truth from error regarding those topics. If a person does not "ask in faith" to receive that witness--- their faith will continue to be a belief that is unsure and unsubstantiated. You said, "Why pray about things that are apostate?" You don't know for sure it is apostate until your receive that witness.
No checking against the Scriptures then, as we are instructed?
You said "If a person does not "ask in faith" to receive that witness--- their faith will continue to be a belief that is unsure and unsubstantiated."
What if it is substantiated by revelation of the Holy Spirit through reading the Sciptures of the Bible?
Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Also read Ephesians 1:12-14.
=( I'm very sad for your spiritual state. You are lost.
I said: "Why pray about things that are apostate?"
You replied: "You don't know for sure it is apostate until your receive that witness."
Can you not spot the glaring deficiency in your apporach?
So, we can read in the Bible, Jesus is the Son of GOD, but if someone came along and said, "no, he's just a man" - it's your opinion that the person who contradicits the Bible is correct if you recieve a witness about it through prayer?
It is one thing to BELIEVE (through faith) something is true and yet another to KNOW (with a testimony) what is true. True faith comes from believing something (that is true) without any proof or evidence. However, when a person has faith and adds study, obedience, and prayer…the Holy Ghost (the Spirit of Truth) bares witness by providing the spiritual evidence. When this happens the heart changes because the Spirit of Truth has written a new saying on it and incorrect notions pass away.
Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Ephesians 1:12-13 "That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise."
I'll ask again: How do you know it's the Holy Spirit who gives you the witness?
@RPM11111 Yes faith (belief) can only come after one hears the word of God. That faith continues to grow line upon line, here a little and there a little. Faith increases by hearing the word and putting those words into action. If one does not continue to hear the word and put those words into action---faith diminishes instead of increases. We are now seeing Joel's prophecy fulfilled, that in the latter-days, the Lord will pour out his Spirit and daughters prophesy and old men have visions.
Now u have just completely contradicted yourself. I really don't want to be mean, but I'm astonished that u teach Bible classes to "scholars". What kind of scholars are they, exactly? You can quote verses all over the place, but ur use of them reflects one who clearly does not understand (Bible) Scripture. You are no doubt better versed with the BoM and have been trained to use a few Bible verses to try to substantiate ur doctrine, but as with all Mormons, it's abuse of the text. =(
Moroni is not directing people to recite ritualistic prayers but rather a plea to turn our hearts to God, commune with him, be counseled by him, and be re-counseled to him. I'm sorry that you as a christian would want to discourage others from having a personal relationship with God. Apparently you have a real problem with this. You must have enough of God (through the written word) and don't want anymore of him for yourself or for others. You love the tradition more than you love him.
I never claimed Moroni directed people to recite ritualistic prayers. U are very clever at making strawmen of issues that have nothing to do with the point at hand. U build them, then burn them down with ur supposed corrective response, but it's a facade - I never accused LDS of ritualistic prayers. As for a personal relationship with GOD - my ministry to Mormons is to point them to a "real relationship" with the true Jesus Christ. Please tell me which tradition I love more than GOD.
Moroni supports Matthew's promise saying, “Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
@tfwaters But Moroni is asking them to pray about something that teaches doctrine contrary to what the Bible teaches. Therein lies the problem. You don't seem to be getting the point. Ignorance or avoidance? So, he may, on the surface, appear to echo aspects of what Matthew etc record about asking GOD, but it's what's being asked that is problematic. It's like me praying to GOD to see if Islam is true and asking for a witness from the spirit to settle it - if I got a witness, is it from GOD?
@RPM11111 I understand your point, I have read the Quran, there are some truths, however, the majority is apostate. But there again, if you were truly trying to find out if this is the direction the Lord would have you go (asking in faith) then it would be an appropriate question to ask and you would receive an answer. But if it wasn't something you could believe and it was not in your heart to act on the direction given...then you would "ask amiss"... and you would not receive an answer.
@tfwaters In the past 10 years I have noticed many Christians, who have a problem with the trinity theory, rectify this by joining the Muslims or the Jews (thereby renouncing Christ). These "Christians" haven't been diligent in seeking to add understanding (knowledge) to their faith (concerning what constitutes God's attributes). Such a knowledge must be achieved through much study and prayer in order to understand the path that God would have them follow to get their desired result.
That's the same reason people join Mormonism. They didn't study or pray according to GOD's Word. They prayed an ungodly prayer in spite if HIS Word. And you missed one key aspect out - the GODHEAD can only be understood through the Holy Spirit and He only indwells those who believe in the true, historical, Biblical Jesus Christ. On this subject - who is Jesus? Is He part of the one true GODHEAD or is He a separate GOD?
@RPM11111 You said the reason that people join is because "They didn't study or pray according to God's Word." How would you know? We have many people who join the church after earning their PHD in theology--studying to enter the ministry as pastors. In fact, religious questioneers online show, LDS members have more of a handle of their own doctrine than any other sect. How would you know what is in the heart of someone as they pray? How do you know what God considers an "ungodly prayer?"
Having a PHD doesn't make u correct. Many atheists have PHDs. Not Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, or any apostle had PHDs in theology. Neither did most of the greatest preachers in Church history - they had the Bible & the Holy Spirit.
Glad to see u admit LDS are a sect.
As for what GOD considers to be ungodly, I know this - GOD gave us the Bible for a purpose and in it HE explains the Gospel - so to pray for a witness for another is ungodly - hence the warnings in Gal 1 & 2 Cor 11.
@RPM11111 You are confusing the Godhead Doctrine with the Trinity theory. The theory was devised as an attempt to understand the Godhead doctrine and settle the dispute between Catholic leaders concerning how the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one. When the Godhead was not understood the Trinity attempted to understand "the mystery." But instead of doing that it created a greater mystery.
How can there be 3 Gods when verses like the following make it clear there is only one:
Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."
Isa 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
@RPM11111 When Jesus was giving the great intercessory prayer, he prayed for the Apostles, "That they all may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE:I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
@tfwaters Isn't that a contradiction? If the majority is apostate, then why would I pray to see if that was the way the Lord would have me go??? And how would I even establish it was apostate in the first place? Through comparing with the Word of GOD, as per HIS instructions. So there would be no need to pray to see if GOD wanted me to go the way of apostates. But you're saying, if it's in your heart to act in that direction, then it's okay to pray. Try reading Jer 17:9 - the heart is deceitful.
The LORD searches the heart and if your heart says "I want to do this or pray about this, even though it is apostate", then ur heart is not right before GOD - no matter how sincere u believe you are feeling. You make it sound like ur heart is the key pivotal point in the issue. Your essentially saying "if u could believe it, then it's in your heart to believe it, that means you should pray about it." All I can say is that's an astonishingly dangerous way to establish GOD's truth.
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a csincere heart, with dreal intent, having efaith in Christ, he will manifest the truthof it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.” (Moroni 10:4-6)
APOSTASY: "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come…for men shall be lovers of themselves...lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." These men shall "ever be learning, but " never able to come to the knowledge of the truth….
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2 Tim 3-4)
@tfwaters Sounds like he is talking about Mormonism to me. You guys came in the last days, you have a form of godliness but deny the power of it to maintain the church throughout the ages, you're always learning (mormonism), but never coming to knowledge of the truth, you don't endure sound doctrine, but instead have stacked up false apostles and prophets, and with itching ears you have turned to Joseph Smith's fables and those of his followers..
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (2nd Coming) shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY (Apostasy) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.." (2 Thess 2:3)
@tfwaters and let not Jo Smith deceive u, because he is part of that great falling away. Please note the falling away is not complete - it does not include all. For example:
1 Tim 4:1 says "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils"
Mormons like to quote 2 Thess 2:3 (see above) to show that the entire Church which Christ began had fallen away, hence the need for Joseph Smith. Not true.
Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Matthew 28:20 "and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
1 Corinthians 3:7 "So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase."
Ephesians 3:21 "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen."
Jesus Christ is the Chief Corner Stone and he built his church upon the FOUNDATION of apostles and prophets so that he as the HEAD could REVEAL to them what He would have them do with His Church. Thus the current flow of REVELATION given to Apostles and Prophets cause it to continue to be Christ’s LIVING CHURCH. Not a dead Church of the past without Apostles and Prophets but one who presently & consistently REVEALS the mind of the Chief Corner Stone.
Rodney bases much of his Heartland Model on the X lineage, claiming that Native American X lineages are closely related to Jewish X lineages.
This claim has been proven false in the last few years. Native American X lineages have been found to be distantly related to Middle Eastern X lineages. They have also been shown to have been in the Americas for the same length of time as the other 4 Asian lineages or about 15,000 years.
MrSoutherton 1 month ago
I totally felt the spirit when I heard Aaron give his testimony. Amen!
godswordsheal 2 months ago in playlist Interviews
Good job Rodney for great answers. Mr Rodney gave a powerful testimony at the end also. Im not sure if this video is a anti video or not but it sure didnt seem like it due to Mr. Rodney's great answers.
jaromsmiss 2 months ago
good interview and good answers from Meldrum. We know that Heavenly Father loves us and that he is the same yesterday, now, and forever. There are many things that we cannot explain as humans but as long as we have faith, which means obedience to His laws for faith without work is dead according to James, we will be saved through the atonement of Jesus Christ and that all of us are saved through the grace and mercy of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.
staxplease 2 months ago
I thought this was really good you can shore see he was trying to catch Rodney in and snare or trying to twist his words all and all I thought it was good
Conderman1 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There is eternal progression so God is always improving and that is perfection. God will always be this way and will never change.
God will always teach us to fallow and be like him.
Man is always changing, not God.
NielsenWill 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There is eternal progression so God is always improving and that is perfection. God will always be this way and will never change.
God will always teach us to fallow and be like him.
Man is always changing, not God.
NielsenWill 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There is eternal progression so God is always improving and that is perfection. God will always be this way and will never change.
God will always teach us to fallow and be like him.
Man is always changing, not God.
NielsenWill 4 months ago
There is eternal progression so God is always improving and that is perfection. God will always be this way and will never change.
God will always teach us to fallow and be like him.
Man is always changing, not God.
NielsenWill 4 months ago
There is eternal progression so God is always improving and that is perfection. God will always be this way and will never change.
God will always teach us to fallow and be like him.
Man is always changing, not God.
NielsenWill 4 months ago
The interviewer isn't really OPEN to Mormonism--even though he asks what appear to be sincere questions.
If he was REALLY open, he would be eager to find out more about the NUMEROUS new discoveries the other man shared! I'm not saying he should have accepted them as truth on the spot, but a SINCERE seeker of truth welcomes new evidence--regardless of its source! It's sad this young man wastes so much of this gentleman's time acting as if he really WANTS to discover the truth about the Church.
brianmrhodes 5 months ago
Why do you allow tfwaters to bombard the comments section? She brushes the meaningful content of others aside with near endless lds diatribe and misuse of the Bible. She simply can't abide honest facts about her church that expose it's dark spiritual roots and leadership.
RPM11111 6 months ago
Speaking of the 10 Tribes (King:Joseph) and the Jews (King:Judah), "Moreover I will make a COVENANT of peace with them; it shall be an EVERLASTING COVENANT with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore." Ezek 37:26
tfwaters 6 months ago
In the epistle of Paul given to the Hebrews, he said quoted Deut (Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT) and then Paul said, "A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth bold is ready to vanish away. Then verily the first covenant had ALSO ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary." "And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."
tfwaters 6 months ago
"When thou shalt vow a vow unto the Lord thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the Lord thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform...according as thou hast vowed unto the Lord thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth." Deut 23:23
tfwaters 6 months ago
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the PROMISE is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call....And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart." Acts 2:38, 46
tfwaters 6 months ago
Jeremiah goes on to talk about the ordinances of the Celestial and theTerrestrial Orders..."If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever."....and the whole earth will be cursed. Paul speaking to the Corinthian saints also about the Resurrection of the Dead, "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."
tfwaters 6 months ago
But this shall be the COVENANT that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my LAW in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME....for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Jere 31:31-34
tfwaters 6 months ago
Immortality (resurrection: living forever) and Eternal Life (living in God's presence forever) does not guarantee the same thing.This is why Faith (believing in something) without Works (without keeping one's obligations) is dead. One cannot be blessed with Eternal Life (living in the Celestial Kingdom in God's presence) without keeping one's covenants with God. This is why you were confused with the idea of Eternal Marriage, you have a faulty understanding about making and keeping covenants.
tfwaters 6 months ago
What is it that separates man from God? Sin--for no unclean thing can enter into His presence. Adam's transgression caused physical and spiritual death to enter into the world. The Resurrection of Jesus Christ unconditionally overcomes physical death (all will be resurrected and live again) and the Atonement of Jesus Christ conditionally overcomes spiritual death (separation from God). With this contractual agreement Jesus atones for our sins--when we keep the covenant (stipulations).
tfwaters 6 months ago
"Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." It is our belief, that in order to gain the highest degree of glory in the Celestial Kingdom (where God resides) a man and woman must be married by the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage and then be worthy of those obligations to each other and to God. Many are working together to build these relationships, however, only they who abide Celestial Law will be worthy to live in the presence of God.
tfwaters 6 months ago
The institution of marriage is a wonderful thing! It was created to support the betterment of humanity and to safeguard the rearing of children. Just because one is married for "time and all eternity" does not guarantee that marriage will be blessed with that promise. Relationships are built by keeping one's obligations to each other and each person is responsible for doing that. Those relationships will continue into the eternal future as one is worthy of maintaining them.
tfwaters 6 months ago
Contractual agreements between two or more parties always include promises and stipulations. When a couple is married in the temple, they covenant to each other and to God, to keep their covenant (the stipulations) and when they do, they will receive the promised rewards for their faithfulness. Marriage takes work and when it fails it is usually caused because of the selfishness of one or both thus breaking the covenant. When there is abuse or neglect the Lord will not bless that marriage.
tfwaters 6 months ago
Isa 55:11 "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."
Deut 28:58 "If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;"
Psalm 138:2 "for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."
If you truly seek HIM, search HIS Word & you will know HIM.
RPM11111 6 months ago
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Eph 4:14-15 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ"
RPM11111 6 months ago
Don't be fooled by Mormons when they present their "gospel" message.At a glance, it looks like a normal Christian message but with a few hooks to catch the undiscerning, like the Church fell away completely and Joseph Smith restored it, or eternal marriage. If you compare these claims to what the Bible actually says, you will find them out. Please note, the basic message they present is just the facade. Behind it are antichrist doctrines and many Mormons have had more than 1 eternal marriage.
RPM11111 6 months ago
"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him." Jesus had supped with the Father and had the same heart, mind, and will of God the Father...therefore he was "Beloved Son." Just as John the Beloved was to Jesus for he patterned himself after Jesus. Jesus prayed to the Father, "O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these (beloved apostles) have known that thou hast sent me."
tfwaters 6 months ago
When we seek to know the heart, mind, and will of the Lord, and accept it fully we will not stand apart from God, but we will "become one" of the same mind and heart. As we seek to know HIM, we can develop a personal relationship and sup with him becoming "one with him." This is the same thing that Jesus taught the apostles when he prayed to the Father for them, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us."
tfwaters 6 months ago
Brigham Young taught death to inter-racial couples:
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the AFRICAN RACE? If the WHITE man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the PENALTY, under the LAW OF GOD, IS DEATH ON THE SPOT. THIS WILL ALWAYS BE SO.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110)
Folks this was the 2nd Mormon Prophet speaking. Look it up for yourself. I ask you, is it racism or not?
This was the spirit behind the foundation of the Mormon church.
RPM11111 6 months ago
Perhaps Mormons feel that we should pray to see if it is racist or not - we may get a witness from the Mormon spirit. I'm being facetious, yes, but this stuf is horrific. Read below and look it up in their own literature. Maybe current LDS members do not hold such views, but their founding prophets (so called) did. Today's Mormons are of the same spirit. You will not find any such conduct given as teaching to the Church among true believers in the Bible or today.
Mormons are not Christians.
RPM11111 6 months ago
"Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race."
-Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 101
The Mormon prophet Brigham Young on the appearence of Africans:
“Cain slew his brother....and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN...”
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291)
How can this stuff be defended? It is out and out racism from the foundation of the Mormon church. =(
RPM11111 6 months ago
From a Mormon Publication:
“Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, THEIR INTELLIGENCE STUNTED, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism.” (The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157)
This is just sick. Mormons should be ashamed to be Mormon.
RPM11111 6 months ago
Another Mormon publication:
“The descendants of Ham, besides A BLACK SKIN which has ever been a curse that has followed an apostate of the holy priesthood, as well as a BLACK HEART, have been servants to both Shem and Japheth, and the ABOLITIONISTS ARE TRYING TO MAKE VOID THE CURSE OF GOD, BUT IT WILL REQUIRE MORE POWER THAN MAN POSSESSES TO COUNTERACT THE DECREES OF ETERNAL WISDOM.”
(Times and Seasons, Vol. 6, page 857)
=(
RPM11111 6 months ago
LDS Apostle, Bruce R McConkie:
“...he was a rebel and AN ASSOCIATE OF LUCIFER IN PRE-EXISTENCE, and though he was a liar from the beginning...he began in this life to serve God....he came out in open rebellion, fought God, worshiped Lucifer, and slew Abel.... “As a result of his rebellion, CAIN WAS CURSED WITH A DARK SKIN; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who ARE NOT WORTHY to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage..." (Mormon Doctrine, p. 102)
=(
RPM11111 6 months ago
"Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but (until) he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." These secrets (mysteries of the Kingdom)...are given by revelation administered through the priesthood and built upon a foundation of apostles and prophets....Jesus Christ being the Chief corner stone. The apostles asked Jesus why he spoke to others by parables, to which he said, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."
tfwaters 6 months ago
Sadly, the Book f Mormon teaches that black skin is a curse for sins. =(
2 Nephi 5:21 "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
RPM11111 6 months ago
Blacks were excluded from the mormon priesthoods as a result for over 130 years. After the growing social pressure of racial equality in the 60s and 70s, the Mormon church sheepishly presented a new "revelation" - blacks were no longer excluded - thay had paid their due. Astonishingly, the black skin did not disappear. This topic is always an awkward one for Mormons, and their efforts to squirm out of it would be funny if not so sickeningly yellow-bellied.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 We could have followed what other churches did as a result of "social pressure" during a time of civil unrest, however, we had the faith to stand firm to our beliefs and the counsel of prophets when it was not convenient to stand firm. We choose to look to a higher power (God) for the direction of a change in the Kingdom instead of doing it as you say during the social pressure of the 60's. We received the counsel to do the right thing, at the right time, for the right reason.
tfwaters 6 months ago
Not only the Jews returning to a foundation of apostles and prophets through the rock of revelation....but for the whole House of Israel and his companions. The birthright belonged to Joseph of Egypt. When the House of Israel is about to perish for the "want of food" (bread of life/living waters) Joseph will be prepared with "silos of grain" and will be there to protect them from the "famine of hearing the words of the Lord." The 12 Tribes are coming together now looking for such sustenance.
tfwaters 6 months ago
Mormons teach that GOD, whom Christians believe created the universe, lives on a far away planet called "Kolob". =(
Mormon Elder Bruce R. McConkie taught:
Kolob means "the first creation." It is the name of the planet "nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God." It is "first in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. . . . One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth." (Book of Abraham, pp. 34-35; Abra. 3:3-9.)
RPM11111 6 months ago
Elijah must come to turn the hearts of the Jews to the prophets, and the prophets unto the Jews (restoring the covenants of their Fathers); lest the Lord come and smite the whole earth with a curse and all flesh be consumed before him--but in order for this to happen the Lord's House must be reestablished in the top of the mountains thus He "can set his hand to recover the remnant of his people" and "proceed to do a marvellous work and a wonder" by making " a new everlasting covenant with them."
tfwaters 6 months ago
Joseph Smith claimed that men could become gods when he stated,
"Here then, is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you. . . ."(Teachings, 1976).
Satan says, Genesis 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
RPM11111 6 months ago
But GOD says inIsaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."
And in Isaiah 44:6 HE says, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
Who's correct - GOD or Mormons?
Real Christians say "GOD is right".
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 Concerning "before me there was no God formed neither after me." John also said that "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." Jesus/Jehovah had always declared the words of the Father for he was "in the bosom of the Father" residing in the central place (heart) of habitation of God=Heaven. Stephen attested to this, when he said he "saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God."
tfwaters 6 months ago
@RPM11111 "I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me...thou hast not known me." Jesus was in the bosom of the Father. According to Jewish custom to be in the "bosom of another" means that person's heart (central place) is in harmony with another. This is how Jesus "supped with his disciples." They sat at the table reclined and their back rested upon the bosom of their "beloved" disciple. This jester shows they are of the same heart and mind....beloved of the Lord.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@RPM11111 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel (Lost 10 Tribes), and with the house of Judah:Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
tfwaters 6 months ago
Joseph Smith wrote:
God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . . I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. . . . He was once a man like us; yea that God himself, the Father dwelt on an earth (Teachings, 1976).
RPM11111 6 months ago
"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the [2nd] coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:And he shall turn (restore) the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." Mal 4:5-6
tfwaters 6 months ago
"Recent U.S. data from the National Survey of Families and Households indicate that about 26 percent of both Latter-day Saints and non-LDS have experienced a divorce (Heaton et al., Table 2)."
This makes a laughing stock of Mormonisms "eternal marriage ceremony", because among these, wedded couples are one day bonded for time and eternity at the temple - then they get divorced and each move on, married to completely different spouses and go through the same "eternal marriage" ceremony again.
RPM11111 6 months ago
It seems eternal is not so eternal for Mormons or the Mormon god, because the LDS church hierarchy allow this.
Matthew 5:32 "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."
Either divorced Mormons have been all been in adulterous marriages or they are currently in adulterous marriages.
RPM11111 6 months ago
Saul became faithful Paul after his "eyes opened" to realize that he was fighting AGAINST-not FOR the God of Abraham. Preparing him to teach this to Israel (who had fallen into apostasy for rejecting Christ), then to teach to the pagan Gentiles (descendants of Noah who had fallen away), and warn the new Christians--not to be deceived, that Christ's Return, "shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST" (Apostasy). Thus another "famine of hearing the word of the Lord" before His Return.
tfwaters 6 months ago
"Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy; That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death."
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
Where does your dishonesty and underhandedness fit in with all this?
RPM11111 6 months ago
In order to build up the Kingdom of God on the earth one must use God's plans with HIS "tactics." "Hence many are called, but few are chosen. No power or influence can or ought to be maintained...only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
tfwaters 6 months ago
Just like Saul...who believed he was doing the "right thing" (by using all the wrong tactics) this is how you pierce yourself by "kicking against the pricks." You assume that I am the one who causes this reaction (anger/hate) within you...when this is the tactic that have chosen for yourself and you use it to "serve" God. But you should know, this spirit of contention...puts a person at enmity with God and it does not serve him or His gospel, it only hurts you and nothing good can come of it.
tfwaters 6 months ago
In order to be tutored by the Spirit of God-- one must know that he should pray, but an evil spirit teaches not a man to pray-- but instead that he MUST NOT pray. Evil spirits want to direct our full attention so we chase after it, thereby turning us away from the influence of the Holy Ghost that would have directed us to pray to God and have a personal relationship with him.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters Piffle! What if you're praying for things that GOD has already condemned in HIS Word? According to you, we should still pray about it until the "holy spirit" gives you a "witness". You are as subtle as Satan in the garden. May the LORD manifest to you HIS wrath at your wickedness very soon, and may you repent and be Saved.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters To pray if Mormonism is the truth as akin to saying, "Yea, hath God said...?" No surprise when you consider what Paul says:
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 It is comical that your "preconceived notions" would have led you to believe that I was being "persecuted" (believing me to have a persecution complex). But I know that it is not ME that you persecute. When the Son of Man comes in his glory, he shall say to those on his right, "I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me."
tfwaters 6 months ago
The antidote that conquers all is Love...not hate. If you make it your mission to chase after darkness, you will find yourself in the gall of bitterness, even if your intentions started out as "good" it doesn't matter. Those who actively seek to find the Devil will find him. He is the master deceiver--don't flatter yourself thinking that you are more intelligent or tricky. Those who seek after evil eventually wake up one day becoming the very thing that they are attempting to destroy.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters So, you admit lds are darkness, then? Once again, your watery drivel opposes the Scriptures of the Bible. I commanded to uncover and expose dakness:
Ephesians 5:13 "But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light."
2 Timothy 4:2 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."
Your prayers are not to the GOD of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob.
RPM11111 6 months ago
If one does not focus on the goodness they learn from their own belief system, but instead chases after the "badness" of differing systems--- you are missing the mark about the "good news" that your own gospel brings. If you think that you are following God by seeking out the devil so you can destroy him....you are deceiving yourself. You can't fight Satan with Satan's tactics. You only fight darkness by living a life of Light (living an exemplary life like Christ lived).
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters What about when Christ said such things as: "Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel" (Matt 23:24), or when He said: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves" (Matt 23:15)? In fact read the whole of Matthew 23. Was Jesus wrong when he pointed out the badness of the false teachers in His day? Was He not being "christ-like". =)
RPM11111 6 months ago
You sure are offensive in your attempt of rooting out what you believe to be the "root of evil." Quick to point the finger of blame at others. There is good and bad in everyone....not just the "other person." When someone doesn't support your perception about life--you get extremely defensive needing to protect yourself. You can sure dish it out, but you can't handle any reproof. You act as though your perception of Biblical "truths" is the only one and others must align them selves to you.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters The truth hurts.
Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."
Jesus clearly inferring His true identity, but showing men theirs - none are good. Matt 7:13-27 gives an account of your like.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 Yes you are right...the truth can hurt! But that same truth can heal and help a person find the love of the Lord back into their life again. Just like when Saul who believed that he was doing the Lord's work through persecuting the saints (by using Satan's tactics). The Lord appeared to him saying, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?" Saul responded back, "Who art thou, Lord?" Then the Lord said, "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
Saul overseen the stoning to death of Stephen and other true Christians when he was in darkness. You are comparing that to what is going on here? You have no idea what persecution is, but correction is one thing it is not. This is just more of your misuse of Scripture with a flavor of "persecution syndrome". I invited you to visit "voice of the martyrs" online, but you clearly haven't taken me up on that, or you would not be making such pathetic claims. You're "conscience is seared".
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 You were offended (the truth hurts) because I gave you constructive criticism which I called "pointed" (even though it was for your own good). Then I showed you how an individual hurts them self by "kicking against the pricks." Little do you know...you cause your own hurt by fighting against the very thing (Christ) that you profess to serve. Those "pricks" are there to help to direct you to a better path (charity/love instead of intolerance/hate) instead you pierce yourself by it.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters False accusations also hurt. Perpetuated lies can cause offence also. You're a hypocrite and extremely deluded. Matt16:23 "But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."
You accuse me of "hate" but make no place for correction even when I have given a plethora of verses that refute your position and you give not one Scripturally sound response.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 Then the righteous shall say, "Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in or naked, and clothed thee? or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?" Then HE shall say, "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto ONE OF THE LEAST of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." I may not be of value to you because I am LDS but he doesn't see it that way--he takes it personally.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters Self-righteousness!
Matt 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Bye, and may Christ remove the scales from your eyes.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters Show me where you ahve reproved me please. With what Scriptures did you do this? So far all you have done is abuse the text.
Hugh sigh!
I'm going to leave you to live in your pretend world of putting me straight - even though you don't actually reply to me directly.
Bye. Still praying for you.
RPM11111 6 months ago
I see the importance of people knowing what they believe & living that belief. If a person is a Hindu, Christian, Jew--they should be their best self by living their professed belief. I am not condemning religion;I am not condemning you by judging you as a person (that is God's position) I have only addressed words and actions. Yet you call me dishonest, ridiculous, & self-serving while defending lies. You may have a poor opinion about my beliefs but does that justify condemning me as a person?
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
You have nothing sound to offer - not a single Bible verse to back your position. You can copy and paste a verse as good as anyone, but your lack of understanding beggars belief. You try to sound wise, but all you have are the lofty thoughts of men, vain philosophy - disuising yourself as minister of righteousness - just like your "prophet Joseph Smith."
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 Wow!! You are easily provoked! I'm sorry that my posts hit such a nerve--it was meant as constructive not destructive criticism. And I'm sorry that you are of the disposition to think that I am mean spirited and dishonest for making such pointed comments. However, I don't think that way of you--I just see that you have a lot of preconceived notions that cause you to miss the mark and then you draw on the scriptures to justify your position (ego at play instead of the truth at play).
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters Yes, I tend to respond slightly in the flesh when I encounter such dishonesty and guile. I admit I need to learn to respond with more gentleness. May Christ help me to that end.
What about you?
"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks"??? On the contrary, I am finding hard to walk away, actually. You clearly are gifted in causing such levels of frustration in people that they find it hard to walk away quietly. You are only affirming my experience of Mormons - lost & dishonest.
RPM11111 6 months ago
Like I said earlier, I am not playing a game. You have taken your personal opinion as the Standard for Truth and you attempt to justify your ruler by cherry picking the scriptures to prove your "rightness." When a person does that--they become a law unto themselves. This is not how one is taught BY the scriptures through the Spirit...it only justifies one's chosen view. Now you say I'm "placing myself beyond reach" as though you actually care (proving your "christian" virtue).
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
Why are u writing comments as though in response to me, without actually responding under my comments? I had no clue that u were putting this stuff down until I wondered why I hadn't heard from u for so long. I'm glad I popped back to check. Here u are pretending to put me straight and I don't even know that ur comments are for me. Ur underhanded AND dishonest. I'm not surprised - all u can do is resort to such tactics because u have no truth in u, just watery diatribe.
RPM11111 6 months ago
Sacred Promises
A covenant is an agreement in which two parties make commitments to each other. Each party takes upon himself, as part of his acceptance of the covenant, certain obligations that pertain to the relationship. In a gospel covenant, we enter into sacred agreements with God, promising our obedience to his will. In turn, he has promised glorious blessings to us if we obey and serve him.
tfwaters 6 months ago
Quotes from prophet Joseph Smith in The King Follett Discourse:
P12 "The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself. I know that my testimony is true"
P13 "That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal with our Father in Heaven."
Page 14 - I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself."
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters
What LDS will be reluctant to tell you:
God was not always God -
"We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see." (Teachings of the Prophet J. Smith, pg. 345)
Satan is Jesus brother -
"He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous...this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind." (M.R. Hunter, Gospel Through the Ages, pg.15)
RPM11111 6 months ago
cont...
Jesus had several wives -
"papers represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses 2:210)
Only polygamists become gods -
"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses 11:269)
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters More on what LDS won't want to tell you:
"When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken--He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:50)
There are many more heretical LDS teachings to come.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters
Mormons teach that Jesus was conceived by normal sexual relations, not through the Holy Spirit -
"..how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father. The difference between Jesus Christ and other men is this: Our fathers in the flesh are mortal men, who are subject unto death: but the Father of Jesus Christ in the flesh is the god of Heaven" (Joseph F. Smith, Family Home Evening Manual, 1972, pg. 125)
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters
Mormons won't be happy for you to know their founding "prophet", Joseph Smith made false prophesies -
For instance, in 1835 Smith claimed that the Lord would again come in just 56 years. We would gather from this "prophecy" that Jesus Christ would again come to earth on or before 1891; no doubt Joseph Smith was incorrect (History of the church 2:182).
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters
... or that in 1832 Joseph Smith stated in Doctrine & Covenants, section 84, verses 4 and 5, "this temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it..."
To this day the spot consecrated by Smith fails to be the sight of a great temple, but instead is covered with a well-kept lawn.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters Two can play your game. You keep quoting things from the Bible as though they were the heart of Mormonism. Yet, what you are quoting does nothing to alleviate your position as heretical & apostate. You have ignored many of the issues raised and tried to rid them from view by inserting myriad quotes to disguise yourself as Christian. So, in like manner, I will post as many heretical points from your LDS church's teachings to ensure others can see them for what they are - apostate. Like?
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 I'm not playing a game. Instead of having a meaningful discussion--you make rude comments that you attempt to justify through the Bible and so I refute your words by the same source and you can't handle it and attempt to insult me further. This is what liberals do when they get caught and need to save face. You believe quoting scriptures justifies your un-Christlike actions? I rather feel sorry for you--you need to find a different approach by taking Christ as your model of behavior.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
What was it u said?
"The ego has a hard time handling the potential threat of being proved wrong."
Sounds like u were talking about yourself.
Where have u refuted me? You quote verses then add ur own diatribe to try to convince yourself and others that u are a Biblical scholar, but any honest person can see that u have done nothing to refute the glaring deficiencies with ur church's doctrine. People are trying to reach u and when u can't handle their honest observations, u get upset.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters
If u are referring to me as a liberal (insult?), then show me where my doctrine puts me in that category. You're resorting to name-calling.
You said: "you believe quoting scriptures justifies your un-Christlike actions"
Can I have details please? Because all I have done is be honest about ur doctrine, teaching and use of Scripture. Christ and the disciples confronted false teachers and chastised them. However, they didn't defend lies, twist Scripture or the words of others like u do.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters
I'll tell you what else they didn't do - they didn't say things that were clearly unbiblical then try to hide them from public view - like you do when you remove and spam your own ridiculous incriminating comments. You're dishonesty is clear for all to see. I guess ur the one with the ego - a Mormons who purposefully places themselves beyond reach, preferring to cling to a self-serving view of urself as an accomplished Bible-teacher, despite the efforts of other to highlight ur error.
RPM11111 6 months ago
The patriarch Abraham committed himself unwaveringly to the Lord’s service and was privileged to enter into a covenant with him. The Bible describes the blessings the Lord promised Abraham because of his faith and obedience.
tfwaters 6 months ago
When God covenanted with Abram, he also received a new name which signified the token of covenant that God made with him. The Abrahamic Covenant promised that his seed would receive an everlasting inheritance of land, they would be numberless, establish an everlasting covenant (Priesthood) with his seed, that through him/seed the earth would be blessed.
Genesis 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
tfwaters 6 months ago
The Melchizedek priesthood holds the keys of the knowledge of God, the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom, to have the heavens opened and enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, to officiate the Spirit of the Law & the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost (purged by fire).
tfwaters 6 months ago
The Levitical priesthood holds the keys of the ministering of angels, to administer in outward ordinances, to officiate the letter of the Law, and the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
tfwaters 6 months ago
The new covenant of the gospel of Jesus Christ—the command to repent, be baptized by water and by the Spirit /fire for remission of sins, and through Christ’s blood we become justified and sanctified of sin.
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." "...but ye are washed (water), but ye are sanctified (spirit/fire/blood), but ye are justified (by blood) in the name of the Lord Jesus.."
tfwaters 6 months ago
In order for a religious leader to hold the power and authority of God--he must have inherited it or else be ordained to either the Levitical/Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood. The Priesthood is the everlasting Covenant that God makes with man allowing him to speak and act in His name. Ask your preacher which priesthood he has. "The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant." Isa 24:5
tfwaters 6 months ago
On the Day of Atonement (once a year), the Melchizedek High Priest (Prophet) was allowed to go beyond the veil in the temple "to offer up sacrifice, first for his owns sins, and then for the people's." This was NOT done by a Levitical priest...but by the Melchizedek High Priest, as a type and shadow of Jesus Christ, who would in like fashion make an everlasting sacrifice to accomplish the Infinite and Eternal sacrifice for sin, "for this he did once, when he offered up himself."
tfwaters 6 months ago
"And they truly were many high priests (prophets), because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man [Christ], because he continueth forever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself."
tfwaters 6 months ago
Heb 5-7 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?" (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.)
tfwaters 6 months ago
Abraham was given this high priesthood calling from Melchizedek himself, and later Levi was honored with a lesser divided portion of it. Moses was a Levite by birth however, he was a High Priest (Prophet) officiating through the higher Melchizedek priesthood (like Abraham). Prophets could come from any of the 12 tribes because descent was not required. Another potion of priesthood responsibilities was given to Judah, but the birthright belonged to Joseph. (1 Chron 5:2)
tfwaters 6 months ago
good work
php12345 6 months ago
The Gift of the Holy Ghost is a priesthood ordinance. The Apostles baptized by water through the administration of the Aaronic/Levitical priesthood, afterwhich Christ came to baptize with Fire and the Holy Ghost through the administration of the Melchizedek priesthood. Hence Matthew cried, saying, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."
tfwaters 6 months ago
Once again...Jesus offers the great Intercessory Prayer—
John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee (Elohim:Father) the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
tfwaters 6 months ago
John 1:1-5
In the beginning was the Word (Jehovah/Jesus:Son), and the Word was with God (Elohim:Father), and the Word was God (Creator). The same (Jehovah/Jesus:Son) was in the beginning with God (Elohim: Father). All things were made by him (Jehovah/Jesus:Son); and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him (Jehovah/Jesus:Son) was life; and the life was the light of men (light of Christ). And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
tfwaters 6 months ago
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John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
I guess no man would include Joseph Smith, then? Thanks for clarifying, I knew he was fabricating the whole event.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 Here you go again! John said, "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
After Adam--no man had seen God the Father (Elohim) but men had seen God the Son (Jehovah/Jesus). The Son is Elohim's mediator, relaying Elohim's words to man...therefore J/J is the WORD of God since the beginning revealing himself and the Law to Moses.
tfwaters 6 months ago
After Adam and Eve partook of the of the forbidden fruit--they were cast out of the presence of Elohim and the only way they could communicate with him was through the Mediator (Jehovah/Jesus). They were commanded to pray to the Father in the name of the Son. Since that time, the only way to approach divinity was to go through the Son (Jehovah/Jesus). During Isaiah's day the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was Jehovah/Jesus. Moses saw Jehovah but no man had seen the Elohim the Father.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters =) This stuff is great!
You said: "They (Adam & Eve) were commanded to pray to the Father in the name of the Son"
Can you provide a Bible verse for that, please?
Also, isn't it the teaching of your prophet, Brigham Young, that Adam is the only GOD you have to do with? So, if he was a god, who was his god? And, oh, if you could reconcile your answer with Isa 43:10 and 44:6 that would be appreciated.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 No the Adam/God theory is a misrepresentation of Young's teachings. People think that since Jehovah took upon flesh and dwelt amongst us as Jesus Christ--that this was the first time humanity was commanded to pray to the Father in the name of Christ. But in fact, Adam and Eve taught this to their children. Moses understood it, however, he only revealed the lesser law (Mosaic) to Israel because they needed a school master to bring them to Christ--who would come and reveal the Father.
tfwaters 6 months ago
God and his Infinite Truths do not change, they are constant--just like a Lighthouse. On the other hand, we are constantly changing beings, our opinions are like a wave of the sea and driven with the wind and tossed. Yet we have been given the Standard to look to, and ONE who is waiting, willing, and capable to provide the needed assistance to understand that standard. A sure foundation has been provided through the power of the Holy Ghost to help us stand in a world of constant commotion.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
JWs claim to have the power of the Holy Ghost, as do 7th Day Adventists, Catholics and even Spiritualists.
How do you know it's the Holy Ghost you have recieved?
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 All people have access to the influence of the Holy Ghost which comes and goes, however, only they who have had the "laying on of hands" (baptism of fire & baptism by water by one having authority) is given the Gift of the Holy Ghost to be as a constant companion. "Then laid they (apostles) their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money.." Acts 8:;17-18,
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
Eph 1:12-13 "That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise."
Read also Acts 10:46-48 - believers who had RECIEVED the Holy Spirit before baptism or laying on of hands.
I see I'm wasting my time. You're willfully dishonest with the Bible, as I predicted. I can only pray for you.
RPM11111 6 months ago
James 1:4-6
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 6But let him aask in bfaith, nothing cwavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
Great, but LDS have wavered in their entirety from the Biblical Gospel, Jesus Christ and the Church He began. They have wavered in many other things, e.g., Adam is god/Adam is not god; Blacks are forbidden the priesthood/now they are not; the hill cumorah is in Palmyra, NY/no it's in Central America.
The BoM has over 3000 word changes since the first "perfect" edition.
D&C Has had about 2800 changes since it's origin. Your church is not quite the "solid oak tree" you try to portray.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 The "wavering" is your opinion and is not based upon fact. The Adam/God theory is a misrepresentation of Young's teachings. God has a plan, each dispensation of time, the Lord directed his gospel to the Covenant people, first to Jew and then to Gentile. Would you say that because Gentiles were forbidden the priesthood and then allowed later to be "wavering" too? The Gentiles did not receive the opportunity to receive the priesthood until God willed it and they were ready to accept it.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
None of which means black skin is a curse for sins, which disqualified blacks from the priesthood. It's a farse and you try to defend it.
As for Young's Adam-god theory:
"Adam came into the garden of Eden with a celestial body and one of his many wives, he is our Father and God. The Father, not the Holy Spirit, conceived Jesus with the Virgin Mary." Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50 (April 9, 1852).
How do you misrepresent that - it's only one of many clear quotes from him?
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111You forget that Paul was speaking to the Ephesian saints who were already baptized by water and by the Spirit/Fire. They had already received the Gift of the Holy Ghost which is given by the laying on of hands by a Melchizedek priesthood holder. This priesthood carries the "sealing power" in which the ordinances performed on earth are then recognized in heaven and recorded in the Lamb's book of Life by the Holy Spirit of Promise. Usually a person isn't aware of when this happens.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
Are you serious? How about Bible verses to substantiate your claims...
Who was this Melchizedek priest and where is it recorded that all of the Ephesians had hands laid on them by him? Where is it recorded that he was a Melchizedek priest. Where is it recorded that this Melchizedek priesthood is conferred by laying on of hands or has the "sealing power? Where is it recorded that others, besides Jesus hold this office? Where are all the LDS temple ordinances recorded in the Bible?
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters Additionally, your understaning of the Jewish priesthood is abysmal. Jews only became Jews because they were GOD's people. The Levites (Aaronic) were the only Jews given the priesthood, not because of their sinlessness or race, it was a passed on through lineage. The rest of the Jews were not forbade it because of their sinfulness, and they weren't black-skinned either. They sacrificed animals for sins. That priesthood was done away with when Jesus came, but you can't see that.
=(
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 MY understanding of the Jewish priesthood is abysmal? The duties of the Levitical priesthood included: the teaching of the Law, offering the sacrifices, maintaining the Tabernacle and the Temple, officiating in Holy places, inspecting ceremonially unclean persons, adjudicated disputes, and functioned as tax collectors. THEY WERE NOT PROPHETS….one had to hold the higher priesthood (Melchizedek) in order to function as a prophet.
tfwaters 6 months ago
The requirement for holding the Levitical priesthood was pedigree “by birth with father and mother descending from the loins of Levi.” The requirement for holding the Melchizedek priesthood was strictly righteousness, “Without father, without mother, without descent.” (Heb 7:3) It is the difference between the office of a Levitical priest and the office of a Melchizedek High Priest.
tfwaters 6 months ago
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tfwaters 6 months ago
When a person has received a witness through the Spirit of Truth concerning the individual principles and ordinances of the Gospel---they then have a solid foundation to help them to separate truth from error regarding those topics. If a person does not "ask in faith" to receive that witness--- their faith will continue to be a belief that is unsure and unsubstantiated. You said, "Why pray about things that are apostate?" You don't know for sure it is apostate until your receive that witness.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
No checking against the Scriptures then, as we are instructed?
You said "If a person does not "ask in faith" to receive that witness--- their faith will continue to be a belief that is unsure and unsubstantiated."
What if it is substantiated by revelation of the Holy Spirit through reading the Sciptures of the Bible?
Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Also read Ephesians 1:12-14.
=( I'm very sad for your spiritual state. You are lost.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters
I said: "Why pray about things that are apostate?"
You replied: "You don't know for sure it is apostate until your receive that witness."
Can you not spot the glaring deficiency in your apporach?
So, we can read in the Bible, Jesus is the Son of GOD, but if someone came along and said, "no, he's just a man" - it's your opinion that the person who contradicits the Bible is correct if you recieve a witness about it through prayer?
If you were not so deceived, I might laugh. =(
RPM11111 6 months ago
It is one thing to BELIEVE (through faith) something is true and yet another to KNOW (with a testimony) what is true. True faith comes from believing something (that is true) without any proof or evidence. However, when a person has faith and adds study, obedience, and prayer…the Holy Ghost (the Spirit of Truth) bares witness by providing the spiritual evidence. When this happens the heart changes because the Spirit of Truth has written a new saying on it and incorrect notions pass away.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
That's not what the Bible teaches:
Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Ephesians 1:12-13 "That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise."
I'll ask again: How do you know it's the Holy Spirit who gives you the witness?
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 Yes faith (belief) can only come after one hears the word of God. That faith continues to grow line upon line, here a little and there a little. Faith increases by hearing the word and putting those words into action. If one does not continue to hear the word and put those words into action---faith diminishes instead of increases. We are now seeing Joel's prophecy fulfilled, that in the latter-days, the Lord will pour out his Spirit and daughters prophesy and old men have visions.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
Now u have just completely contradicted yourself. I really don't want to be mean, but I'm astonished that u teach Bible classes to "scholars". What kind of scholars are they, exactly? You can quote verses all over the place, but ur use of them reflects one who clearly does not understand (Bible) Scripture. You are no doubt better versed with the BoM and have been trained to use a few Bible verses to try to substantiate ur doctrine, but as with all Mormons, it's abuse of the text. =(
RPM11111 6 months ago
Moroni is not directing people to recite ritualistic prayers but rather a plea to turn our hearts to God, commune with him, be counseled by him, and be re-counseled to him. I'm sorry that you as a christian would want to discourage others from having a personal relationship with God. Apparently you have a real problem with this. You must have enough of God (through the written word) and don't want anymore of him for yourself or for others. You love the tradition more than you love him.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
I never claimed Moroni directed people to recite ritualistic prayers. U are very clever at making strawmen of issues that have nothing to do with the point at hand. U build them, then burn them down with ur supposed corrective response, but it's a facade - I never accused LDS of ritualistic prayers. As for a personal relationship with GOD - my ministry to Mormons is to point them to a "real relationship" with the true Jesus Christ. Please tell me which tradition I love more than GOD.
RPM11111 6 months ago
Comment removed
tfwaters 6 months ago
Moroni supports Matthew's promise saying, “Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters But Moroni is asking them to pray about something that teaches doctrine contrary to what the Bible teaches. Therein lies the problem. You don't seem to be getting the point. Ignorance or avoidance? So, he may, on the surface, appear to echo aspects of what Matthew etc record about asking GOD, but it's what's being asked that is problematic. It's like me praying to GOD to see if Islam is true and asking for a witness from the spirit to settle it - if I got a witness, is it from GOD?
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 I understand your point, I have read the Quran, there are some truths, however, the majority is apostate. But there again, if you were truly trying to find out if this is the direction the Lord would have you go (asking in faith) then it would be an appropriate question to ask and you would receive an answer. But if it wasn't something you could believe and it was not in your heart to act on the direction given...then you would "ask amiss"... and you would not receive an answer.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters In the past 10 years I have noticed many Christians, who have a problem with the trinity theory, rectify this by joining the Muslims or the Jews (thereby renouncing Christ). These "Christians" haven't been diligent in seeking to add understanding (knowledge) to their faith (concerning what constitutes God's attributes). Such a knowledge must be achieved through much study and prayer in order to understand the path that God would have them follow to get their desired result.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
That's the same reason people join Mormonism. They didn't study or pray according to GOD's Word. They prayed an ungodly prayer in spite if HIS Word. And you missed one key aspect out - the GODHEAD can only be understood through the Holy Spirit and He only indwells those who believe in the true, historical, Biblical Jesus Christ. On this subject - who is Jesus? Is He part of the one true GODHEAD or is He a separate GOD?
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 You said the reason that people join is because "They didn't study or pray according to God's Word." How would you know? We have many people who join the church after earning their PHD in theology--studying to enter the ministry as pastors. In fact, religious questioneers online show, LDS members have more of a handle of their own doctrine than any other sect. How would you know what is in the heart of someone as they pray? How do you know what God considers an "ungodly prayer?"
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
Having a PHD doesn't make u correct. Many atheists have PHDs. Not Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, or any apostle had PHDs in theology. Neither did most of the greatest preachers in Church history - they had the Bible & the Holy Spirit.
Glad to see u admit LDS are a sect.
As for what GOD considers to be ungodly, I know this - GOD gave us the Bible for a purpose and in it HE explains the Gospel - so to pray for a witness for another is ungodly - hence the warnings in Gal 1 & 2 Cor 11.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 You are confusing the Godhead Doctrine with the Trinity theory. The theory was devised as an attempt to understand the Godhead doctrine and settle the dispute between Catholic leaders concerning how the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one. When the Godhead was not understood the Trinity attempted to understand "the mystery." But instead of doing that it created a greater mystery.
Trinity: 1 + 1 + 1 = 1God with 3 presences
Godhead: 1 + 1 + 1= 3 Gods who are unified as ONE
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
No- it's u who is confused.
How can there be 3 Gods when verses like the following make it clear there is only one:
Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."
Isa 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
RPM11111 6 months ago
@RPM11111 When Jesus was giving the great intercessory prayer, he prayed for the Apostles, "That they all may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE:I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters Isn't that a contradiction? If the majority is apostate, then why would I pray to see if that was the way the Lord would have me go??? And how would I even establish it was apostate in the first place? Through comparing with the Word of GOD, as per HIS instructions. So there would be no need to pray to see if GOD wanted me to go the way of apostates. But you're saying, if it's in your heart to act in that direction, then it's okay to pray. Try reading Jer 17:9 - the heart is deceitful.
RPM11111 6 months ago
Comment removed
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters
The LORD searches the heart and if your heart says "I want to do this or pray about this, even though it is apostate", then ur heart is not right before GOD - no matter how sincere u believe you are feeling. You make it sound like ur heart is the key pivotal point in the issue. Your essentially saying "if u could believe it, then it's in your heart to believe it, that means you should pray about it." All I can say is that's an astonishingly dangerous way to establish GOD's truth.
RPM11111 6 months ago
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a csincere heart, with dreal intent, having efaith in Christ, he will manifest the truthof it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.” (Moroni 10:4-6)
tfwaters 6 months ago
APOSTASY: "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come…for men shall be lovers of themselves...lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." These men shall "ever be learning, but " never able to come to the knowledge of the truth….
tfwaters 6 months ago
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2 Tim 3-4)
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters Sounds like he is talking about Mormonism to me. You guys came in the last days, you have a form of godliness but deny the power of it to maintain the church throughout the ages, you're always learning (mormonism), but never coming to knowledge of the truth, you don't endure sound doctrine, but instead have stacked up false apostles and prophets, and with itching ears you have turned to Joseph Smith's fables and those of his followers..
RPM11111 6 months ago
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (2nd Coming) shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY (Apostasy) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.." (2 Thess 2:3)
tfwaters 6 months ago
@tfwaters and let not Jo Smith deceive u, because he is part of that great falling away. Please note the falling away is not complete - it does not include all. For example:
1 Tim 4:1 says "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils"
Mormons like to quote 2 Thess 2:3 (see above) to show that the entire Church which Christ began had fallen away, hence the need for Joseph Smith. Not true.
RPM11111 6 months ago
@tfwaters
Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Matthew 28:20 "and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
1 Corinthians 3:7 "So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase."
Ephesians 3:21 "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen."
RPM11111 6 months ago
Jesus Christ is the Chief Corner Stone and he built his church upon the FOUNDATION of apostles and prophets so that he as the HEAD could REVEAL to them what He would have them do with His Church. Thus the current flow of REVELATION given to Apostles and Prophets cause it to continue to be Christ’s LIVING CHURCH. Not a dead Church of the past without Apostles and Prophets but one who presently & consistently REVEALS the mind of the Chief Corner Stone.
tfwaters 6 months ago